Focus On The Family With Jim Daly - Sep 11 - 12:30 pm

0:00Jesus spoke about hell repeatedly and you say that there is no hell. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I am going with Jesus on this one. Dr. Lutz are welcome to focus on the family. Welcome back. I'm so glad to be with you again, Jim. As I've always mentioned when I've been on, I'm so thankful for your ministry to so many people and helping them on their spiritual journey. I appreciate that. I mean, it's been almost 50 years. That focus has been sitting in this role that the Lord created to help families thrive in Christ and to do that first and foremost with a foundation and belief in Him. Everything sits on that, right? Marriage, parenting. I think it goes a lot better in this life when we know and trust the Lord. All right, let me ask you.

1:00This is an interesting book. It says right on the cover more than 700,000 in print. There's something that is very intriguing to people about this concept of the next life. People innately feel that it might be true, non-believer. I mean, there are other faith traditions. There are the, I would say, the new age kind of thing that we're, everybody is kind of acknowledging that we're spirit and we're in these bodies and then something happens at death. How would you say to that person that has their finger on the right thing that maybe not in the right direction, meaning Jesus is the way the truth and the life? What would you say to them? Jim, you've asked a number of different questions in one single question. The length of eternity. We really can't get our minds around it. I want people to visualize a measuring tape from here to the farthest star, the farthest star. And life on this planet for us is like a hairline.

2:05And then the tape extends for all of eternity. And here's my burden. This is why this program is so critical. I was in a place recently where there were a lot of wealthy people. And these people are going along. They're shopping. They're in lovely homes. And I say to myself, I wonder if they give any thought to the fact that they are going to live forever. It seems as if only this life really matters. And they give very little thought to the next. You know, one day I was in a bookstore and I saw the travel section. People were checking out books, you know, because they're going to go to Europe and they're going to spend some time in some country of the world. And they give almost no attention at all to the fact of where they are going to spend eternity. So there's nothing more critical than the fact that you and I are going to die.

3:06And we are going to live forever somewhere. And you know, your idea of going past a cemetery, I think that's great what you do with your kids. Okay, that's where you're going to end. You know, the statistics on death are very impressive. It's about one out of one. And what you find is that there are so many people who deny it. And they don't understand that we are going to be humiliated by our death. That on this side of the curtain, it is an enemy. But on the other side of the curtain for those who have faith in Jesus Christ, it is going to be a time of glorious reunion, a time of seeing Jesus Christ. Yeah. The, again, the appeal to this is broad beyond the Christian community when we talk about life after death. And you can see it. There's TV specials about it. There's all kinds of interpretation about it. But I'm so grateful that you've written this book one minute after you die.

4:06That's something everybody should think about. In that respect, you had a story in there, I think from Reverend Sanborn from Iowa that illustrates our closeness to heaven. You know, this is a remarkable story. Here's a girl who's dying and this pastor goes to visit her on a Saturday morning. And she looks up and she says, the gate is open. I'm going to go in. But Mimi is going in ahead of me and then her head goes back on the pillow. A few minutes later, I want to go in, but Gramps is going ahead of me. Well, the pastor left and came back that afternoon and the girl had died. But he wondered who in the world was Mimi and who in the world was Grandpa. And so he did a study and discovered that Mimi was a girl who had moved to New York and Gramps was a friend of the family who had moved to a southern state.

5:09Now he was able to track them down and discovered that they both died that very Saturday morning. Now think of that. Profound. You know, heaven is as close as the next breath. I mean, you and I don't know whether or not we're going to make it through this program. And so what we have to do is to realize that we're talking about realities here. We're speaking about that, which is going to happen to us. And the question is, where will we be and what form will we take? Erwin, in fact, in the book, you mentioned a conversation you had with a woman who claimed there was no hell and maybe even asked, what is hell? What would you say? I have to tell you the way the conversation unfolded. So I'm sitting next to her and I usually witness to the person next to me. And we got into a discussion and she appeared to me to be very self-righteous. So even before that question came up, I said, would you consider yourself to be ungodly?

6:13She said, oh no, I'm not ungodly. I said, I really feel sorry for you. That means you cannot benefit from the death of Christ because the Bible says that Christ died for the ungodly. So that was like a bucket of water. But then we got into a discussion and she said, well, one thing I know for sure is that there is no hell. I said, lady, you have put me into a predicament. Because the question is this, Jesus spoke about hell repeatedly. And you say that there is no hell. So I have to choose. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I am going with Jesus on this one. So what you have to do is to always go back to the authority. You know, there are those today who say that they had a near death experience and we can discuss those at some time. But what I like about Jesus is that he was not just near death. He actually was dead.

7:15So what we must do is to recognize that we are up against the fact that Jesus is the one who can speak with authority. But now talking about hell, I want to say, first of all, hell is just. You know, the reason that people react against hell is they think it's unfair. We have to believe that God is going to do absolutely right by people. It's very interesting that in the 16th chapter of Luke, where you have the man who finds himself in Hades, he did not complain about the injustice of it all. I believe that the justice of God is going to be displayed because hell is not the same for everyone by no means. People are going to be judged on the basis of what they did with what they knew. Nobody is going to go to hell because they've never heard of Jesus. If they've never heard of Jesus, they will be judged on the basis of what they did with what they knew.

8:16Now, having said that, there's no evidence in the Bible that they will be saved as a result of that, but their justice is going to be meted out accurately. So throughout all of eternity, we are going to sing just and true our thy ways, though King of Saints. But hell is a place of abandonment. It's a place of torment, even the Bible speaks about, where the wrath and the justice of God is displayed. And the reason it is forever, and Jim, for me, this is chilling to say, but the reason it is forever is because people are forever guilty. So it's not as if you somehow pay for your sin throughout all of eternity. So what we must do, and Jonathan Edwards did this, as you well know, the great theologian and the great preacher, when he preached on the subject of sinners in the hands of an angry God, we must warn people.

9:18It's perfectly fine to warn them, and to remind them that eternity is coming and there are two places there are heaven and hell, and there is no in between. You know, Dr. Lootzer, as believers, we often hear, how could a good God send people to hell? That's a that's a common question we encounter. And the way that it's phrased is to make God seem lacking compassion, like somehow it's his choice that people are going there. When in fact, it's our choice, right? He says, choose you this day, life or death. And so for the person who knows and has heard the gospel and has rejected it, who's the one choosing that location? You know, Jim, what we have to do is to recognize that God is God and we're not. I have no doubt that there's a tremendous amount of mystery connected with this, and we don't, and we shouldn't pretend that we have all the answers.

10:20But we have to deal with God the way he is and not the God that we would prefer. Our preference might be different, but the fact is that God has revealed himself, and not only that, but there is also, of course, hope given, namely, for those who believe on Jesus Christ and the opportunity to believe on Christ as you emphasized. So we must realize that when it comes to these difficult doctrines, we must still bow to the authority of Scripture and not our own preferences. Now oftentimes parents ask me about the age of accountability. You know, they have a child that dies and so forth. I think that the age of accountability is much higher than most people think it is. The only time in the Bible where an age of accountability is mentioned is in the Old Testament where the children who were 20 years old and younger were able to go into the land and

11:20the older ones weren't able to. Now I'm not saying that 20 is the age of accountability, but I am saying this that there is really no age of accountability very wisely, because then we would be thinking, oh, here's a child who's now 12 or who's a here's a child who's 14. It's not an age of accountability. It's a state of accountability. The other day, really three days ago, I received a text message from someone whose child died who was mentally challenged. Well even if the child was 15 or 20, they are going to be judged on the basis of their mental capacity and so they will be judged as children. And there's good evidence in the Scripture that what God does is He places the payment of their debt upon Jesus who died for sinners and therefore they are saved on the basis

12:24of what Jesus Christ did. I mean, even as I talk about this, the passage of Scripture that comes to mind is from Matthew chapter 18 where Jesus says regarding children, they behold the face of my father who is in heaven. That puts them pretty close to the throne. Dr. Luther in the book, you talk about the personal nature of heaven for the believer in Christ. I think you had four aspects to that personal nature. Can you describe those? First of all, John, before I describe that, I want to point out to people that in heaven there is communication. Your soul takes on the characteristics of the body so that when I die, I expect not only to see Jesus but to see my parents and other relatives. But the final day of resurrection is still future. And the Bible says that we shall have bodies like onto his glorious body, which is really again unimaginable. Now what is heaven going to be like?

13:26So often, John, I have a widow who says, do you think that my husband remembers me and I always smile and I always say to her, do you actually think that your husband is going to know less in heaven than he did on earth? Of course he remembers you. Which continues, love continues, feelings continues. All of that continues in the heavenly realm. Of course the realm is different, the implications of course are there. And what is heaven going to be like? Well all that you have to do is to read Revelation and you discover no more crying, no more death, no more pain. And here's the interesting thing. The Bible says that God is going to wipe all tears from their eyes. Now the Greek text actually says God is going to wipe all tears out of their eyes.

14:27It's almost as if God is going to say, I'm going to get to the very heart of your sorrow and I am going to be the one to dry your tears so that forever you will be with me. And of course God is going to have work for us to do. We're going to have various responsibilities given, various rewards dependent upon our faithfulness or lack thereof. And so all that we can do is to say John, heaven is so great that for the Christian we should not really fear it. Now even those of us who write a book on death, we know that there's anticipation, there are times of fear. But if our faith is in Christ, we need not fear. You know there was a very well-known Christian leader who was dying. And he was going through all kinds of fearful thoughts and people said to him, look at all that you've done, look at the leadership, look at the churches that you have pastored.

15:31He received no consolation from that at all. And then someone said this, remember that you are accepted by God on the basis of the blood of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. And once He grasped that, He died in peace. So we must understand that really the basis is not our performance, however flawed or good it might be. It all has to do with Christ. And when we receive Him as Savior and trust Him, we are saved totally and completely on the basis of His merit. Or when you and your wife are back, went to a grave site of a very famous person. I know who it is, but share with us what was on his tombstone and who was it. I was speaking in California and somebody said, you know, there's a cemetery over there and Frank Sinatra is buried there. So with the help of the GPS, we found his grave.

16:33My first surprise is that it was not distinct from others. It was just as flat as other graves, which is interesting. But Jim on the tomb were these words, the best is yet to come. And I thought to myself, that's a very interesting thing to have on your tombstone. But I would say this that if Frank Sinatra's faith was not in Jesus, the best was not to come. The worst was yet to come. For the Christian, this is as bad as things will ever get. Because after we die, it's going to be a time of bliss and worship and service. For the non-Christian, it's going to be a time of gloom, of separation from God, and a time of suffering. And so the question is this, when you die, if you're a believer, that's a wonderful thing

17:38to have on your tombstone. The best is yet to come. I love that. I won't want to copy that. I think since he's already done it, but that's the kind of attitude I would want to put on my tombstone. Yahoo! Here we go. That's just a great way to look at him. Dr. Lootser is so often in these times, what we're sensing, what I'm sensing is almost a religion out of tolerance, that it's intolerant for Christians to speak to a non-Christian about Jesus, like as if that's so offensive that we're creating the sin, that we're not recognizing we need to be tolerant of their beliefs. So people misunderstand what motivates us as Christians to speak to others about what we've experienced in Christ, and why when you read the scripture, we're compelled to tell people the good news. We're not there to be an offense.

18:38We're there to be a help. Jim, all truth is intolerant. Two plus two is equal to four. What that means is there's almost an infinite number of wrong answers. When you stop to think of it, truth is always exclusive. It is never inclusive. So what we have to help people to understand is this, that Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me, and that of course is a very, some people would say, intolerant statement, who cares? The question is, is it a true statement? On the other hand, what we must recognize is that there's no such thing as inclusive truth. So when it comes to that, if I might quote something that I read, it's much better to be slapped by the truth than it is to be kissed by lies.

19:38Dr. Lutzard, there are many dangerous avenues for contacting the other side. You see that? You know, reading cards and kind of the dark side of the spiritual realm. Is there any legitimacy to those pathways for communicating to the dead or we as Christians should stay far from that? Don't ever try to communicate with the dead because what you're going to end up doing is communicating with a demonic spirit who knew the dead. In my book, I give illustrations of this, of where I was, for example, on a plane again, speaking to a woman who believed in reincarnation and she said, you know, I had never been to the state of Vermont, but I already knew what the house was like that I grew up in the 1800s. I said to her, did you know that there's no such thing as the transmigration of souls, but there is a transmigration of demonic spirits.

20:41And it's a demonic spirit that enabled you to know what that house looked like. She looked at me. Now we're sitting together on the plane and she said, I don't talk to demonic spirits. I only talk to good spirits. And I said, well, how do you know the difference? She said, I receive only those spirits that come to me in light. Well, what passage of Scripture did I point out to her? The Bible says that Satan himself comes as an angel of light because Jesus is the light of the world. Obviously, Satan wanting to duplicate Jesus. He comes as light. And I helped her to see the importance of recognizing that she was deceived. So let's be very clear out there. Don't try to contact the dead. I have other stories that I could tell about people who contacted the dead and thought that they had spoken to their son, but actually they were speaking to a spirit through a medium,

21:48a spirit who knew their son. Let me ask you in the end here, the last question, to speak to the person who doesn't know the Lord or is standing in prayer for some loved one who doesn't know the Lord. How would you encourage them today? Well, first of all, to the person who doesn't know Christ as Savior, you've tuned into this broadcast. You're marginally a Christian, but you've never put faith in Christ. Let me warn you that there is such a thing as false faith. False faith is only when you believe intellectually. Oh yes, Jesus is my Savior. Jesus is the one who saves, but you have never personally received Him rejecting all reliance upon your own performance and recognizing that only Christ qualifies us for heaven. To the person who's praying for somebody who isn't a believer, we can't convert people.

22:52We can't, I say to parents, you can't convert your child. God has to do that. So what can we do? All that we can do is ultimately to entrust that person to God, trusting God to do what we can't. When we expect somebody to believe on Christ, in effect, we're asking the dead to rise the deaf to hear and the blind to see. We can't do any of those miracles. So we commit the person to God. We try to witness to them. Of course, at some point, we may be stopped if it's a child and he already knows the gospel, but he wants to go his own way. And we have to entrust him into God's hands. Dr. Lutzert, let me just say thank you. What a timely message for many of our listeners and viewers. We don't have to fear the chaos we see around us because we know the end of the story as believers and it is good. And that one minute after death on this planet is the beginning of eternity for us.

23:56What a great thought. If you're feeling the urgency of this message, get in touch with us. With the gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy of Dr. Lutzert's great book, One Minute After You Die, a preview of your final destination. As Arway is saying, thanks for being part of the ministry. Let me read you an impact story. We don't do this very often. We should do it more often, but here's one we got recently. In fact, last week, we had a listener named Mary write to us. She said, I'm praising God for focus on the family and your many other missions to families. Three generations of our family had been blessed with inspiration and positive advice on how to raise our children and our new grandchildren to love and serve Christ. That's generational impact. Three generations. And let me say, last year, focus on the family. We do survey work every year and we estimate that about 300,000 people came to Christ because

24:58of focus on the family. So the Lord is using us through the family to actually draw people to Him. That's eternity impact. And we are. So I'm excited about that. I'm thrilled that focus is being used by the Lord to draw people to Him. So be a part of it. It's only about 1% of listeners that support the ministry. So way to go to that 1% would you and I are both part of to support the ministry regularly. If you can do that, maybe we can move it to 2% and have even greater impact together. This accrues to your account, not to ours. We're just we're going to run it effectively and efficiently so you can do ministry through this tool, focus on the family that God's created. So use it. Yeah, join the support team. Donate as you can, either monthly or one time gift. And request this terrific book, One Minute After You Die by Dr. Irwin Lootzer. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. And we've got details in the description below. Dr. Lootzer, thanks again for being with us.

26:00If not on this side, I'll see you on the other side. Thanks. Privilege to be here. And thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daily. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.