Focus On The Family With Jim Daly - Sep 12 - 7:00 am

0:00Music Knowing that he was going to need this intensive care, that actually helped me, right? So I knew that the moment he was born, he was going to be intubated and you know, and I wouldn't get to hold him. My hope was that God somehow would do a miracle that day. That Nate was not going to be born and that his first gas of breath, he would cry and his lungs would be perfect and everything was be healed. That was my hope. Music Today's program is going to really touch on some tender areas when couples get diagnoses that are not favorable and not their pregnancy. And it's going to be a powerful discussion today with our two guests. Mao and Kristen Rosa faced decisions most of us never will have to deal with and their journey shows the value of hope and perseverance in Christ.

1:00They're the parents of three precious kids and Kristen has captured their journey in a book called Saving Nate, Choosing Life After a Devastating Prenatal Diagnosis. And of course we have that here at the ministry, give us a call or click the link in the description below. Kristen and Mao, welcome to Focus on the Family, it's good to have you. Thank you so much. And both of you are from Canada now, right? Mao, you migrated from Brazil. Yes. You like cold weather or what's the deal? I guess I do now. I hope so. Yes. Yeah, I am originally born and raised in Brazil and I decided to pursue other experiences like I'm an architect by trade and that's when I graduated in Brazil. I wanted to go abroad to study in Canada was the place that opened the doors. And you're living in Calgary now, Kristen, you were from Alberta.

2:00I'm getting into this for all the Canadian listeners. I really love our Canadian listeners, so this is it. This is a big Canada day. Yes. So what was your life like growing up? I grew up in Edmonton, Alberta, which is the capital. And I grew up in a typical Christian middle class family and I had a pretty good life. And after I graduated from college, I went to China and I taught there for two years. And when I was preparing to come back to Canada, I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do. I mean, it would make sense for me to go back to Edmonton, but I felt the Lord calling me for some reason to Calgary. And so I was like, okay, Lord, that's kind of weird. But so I applied for jobs in both cities and I ended up being offered a job in Calgary, so I moved. And then that's when I met Mao. And the rest is history, you liked? It's so good. It's going to get your background. It connects us all to your story. So you get married and you decide or things happen and you have your first child, Thomas, describe that experience of now, mom and dad.

3:08Right. Well, he was unexpected but very wanted. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, we'd actually been trying to get pregnant and then it wasn't happening, so we kind of thought, you know what? Maybe we'll go to Brazil for a year. I'll learn the language. Marissa was hoping to start a admissions nonprofit organization. And so we packed up our house. We found like someone to rent it and we both quit our jobs. And it was at that point that I found out that I was expecting. And so we were kind of thrown for a loop, but we're like, okay, what do we do now? Right? Do we try to get our jobs back? Do we stay? Do we still go? What do we do? So you guys, you were there and that happened. So, Kristen, now with the struggles with fertility, you probably weren't sure if number two would come along, describe what happened there with your second pregnancy. Yeah, so I think Thomas was about a year old when we decided, okay, let's try again. And once again, we struggled with infertility.

4:10This time we tried a pretty simple fertility treatment, artificial insemination. And we thought, okay, well, we'll just try this. The odds of getting pregnant without a really low, actually, they say about 13% per try. But we thought, okay, well, we'll try this. And if it doesn't happen, then we're going to pursue adoption. But we thought we would just give it a try first. And so after the second try, I found out I was pregnant. And so Mal, let me ask this, we're going to get into the difficult story now. So you heard about this child growing in your wife's womb, and there were some potential complications the doctor talked to you about both of you. So give me those first impressions. How did they deliver the news? What was it? What was your response, both individually, then as a couple? So after we found out we were pregnant, and then we received the news that we were expecting to in.

5:13So I think it was at week 18, we went for an ultrasound to determine the gender of the babies and all of that, and to make sure everything's okay. At that day, the technician told us, there is something here we don't know what it is. We have a send you for a clinical pregnancy, a more test. In depth. So we were okay. We don't know what it is. They didn't really tell exactly what it was. So we were a bit scared. We called the family. A guy spray for this. And then at that day, they came and they broke the news to us. And they said, hey, there is he has this condition that's called congenital diaphragmatic hernia. And they'd explain a little bit of what it was. And we were like, oh boy. For me personally, my experience was as a man was in kind of a, okay, what do I have to do to fix this?

6:15What do I have to do? I got into kind of a work mold kind of a thing. At the same time, trying to take care of her. Crescent is a very strong person when it comes to those things. But that was the experience was breaking the news. My mind was like, okay, what do I do now? Why do I do to do whatever I can? So you're moving into fix it mode like most of us husbands, Christen. How about you? Where were you at emotionally at that moment? Yeah, for me, I was just, I'm an introvert and I like to like process things and think about things. So we just received this onslaught of information she explained what congenital diaphragmatic hernia is. And then you described that for the listeners. Yeah, so basically the diaphragm is a muscle that separates the lower abdominal organs from the chest cavity. So, you know, we have our intestines and liver and all that down below. So Nate had a very large hole in his diaphragm.

7:18And so that allowed his intestines and part of his liver to migrate up into his chest. And then it crowded out his lungs and kind of shifted everything over to the right. I'm sorry, the left a little bit. And so his right lung was like almost nonexistent, very, very tiny. And then his left lung was only 27% the size of a healthy lung. And so his, you know, CDH was really severe. So most babies, you know, if they're born, well, if you're born with CDH that severe, you know, the baby cannot breathe at all. The lungs are just not developed enough. And they're telling you this. Yes, yes, that's the point. Exactly. And then they also listed all the health concerns he could have if he were to survive. Right. So that's where you're at. And in fact, the doctors even suggested abortion would be an option.

8:19Yeah. So after giving this onslaught of information without giving us a chance just to digest that, no opportunity to ask any questions. Wow. No, there was no discussion of treatment or anything. She said to us, you know, given the severity of this condition, you may want to consider having a reduction. And that was the word reduction of your family. Right. I mean, really, go from three with Thomas being one year old and then reduce your family now by aborting. Well, they used the word reduction because it was a twin pregnancy. Oh, okay. So two babies were going to reduce this pregnancy to one baby. Yeah. Right. And so for me, it was hard to just even figure out what she was talking about. It took a few seconds for me to clue an O. Like, she's talking about aborting our little boy.

9:19Let me ask you because we need to focus, I think, for people to grab this. Maybe couples that are in this spot, maybe not that specific diagnosis, but they have one. And, you know, they're battling with what to do. It's real. It happens, you know, sometimes things aren't perfect in the womb. And that's just part of life. Yeah. So you get this diagnosis and you get this sterile kind of recommendation. It sounds like you have to put words in it, but okay, you know, this is what we would do. That carries a lot of weight. What does that conversation sound like just between the two of you that night when you go home? You felt like for us that they broke the bed news and gave us all the worst possible conditions right up front. I think that's fairly typical, right? And so when we got that, we felt like, okay, is there anything good in this? Any salvaged kind of a situation? Any hope in this? Yeah, exactly. So we were a little bit kind of a, you know, throwing out a little bit.

10:23And then so our first reaction I think was, let's take everything. Let's pray. So we share it with our families. But if I could go back, I'm so thankful that Marcio was there because he's the one that spoke up. Like, do you remember what you said? We were offered abortion, I think seven times. And I don't remember which moment was that I finally kind of had enough of it. And I basically said to that, hey, listen, like we are for life. This is not an option for us. We believe that life is sacred. We believe that it doesn't come from us. It doesn't belong to us. And we are for life. All we ask is that you guys would bring everything you can that it is at your resource. And we will trust God that he's going to do his best. You give your best and God will do his best. How do they respond to that? He was quiet.

11:23The doctor was quiet. And then after that day they never brought the issue back again. Yeah, but I mean, that's good. That's a good way to do it. It's a good way for them to manage it too. They respected your views. Yeah. That's a good thing. Yeah. But after that very, very first, in the very first meeting when we just got the diagnosis, you actually said we know you're talking about abortion, but you need to know we stand for life. And we're going to fight for ourselves. Wow. So it was actually the very, I remember because I had no words, honestly. I was kind of in shock. And I remember being like, wow, like thank goodness you're speaking up for me. Yeah. Oh, that felt good. Yes, it really did. You probably felt he's got my back. We are united as well. Well, Kristen and Marisa Orozah are our guests today on focus on the family with Jim Dale. And we want to point you to their book because it captures the story so beautifully and offers hope along the way in so many different ways. It's called saving Nate choosing life after a devastating prenatal diagnosis. And we have copies of that book here.

12:24Give us a call or click the link in the description below. And this reminder to hit the subscribe button to access more videos like this one. And do leave a comment for us. Let us know what you think of today's show. You both have shown a lot of grace toward and compassion toward women who have chosen abortion. What does that look like? How do you offer hope when that decision has already been made perhaps? Yeah, well, I can understand why or how someone in this situation could choose abortion when you have the doctors, you know, they are people that we generally respect their opinion and they are offering this to you and not offering hope. So it's definitely understandable that someone might choose abortion. And I think for us if we hadn't gone into it with such strong convictions, we may have made a different choice than the one that we did. That right, there is the difference. You know, thinking ahead of time if this were to happen to us, what are we going to do?

13:26So that's important. So I'm sorry, but I just wanted to punch that point. Yeah, because believing what you believe is really important at that moment. Exactly. Because it's these moments where you have to decide, okay, am I going to trust in the Lord? There is this difficult situation and yeah, what am I going to do? You know, put my faith into practice. But I would just say to those who have chosen abortion, you know, you made the best decision you can make given the information that you had at the time. But I would just say that, you know, the Lord doesn't want you to stay in a place of guilt or shame or, you know, hurt. And he, he's a good and gracious loving God. I love Psalm 103, you know, he says, you know, as far as the heavens are above the earth, so great is the love that the Lord has for those who fear him. And he's also a compassionate forgiving God. It says, you know, as far as the East is from the West, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

14:30And, you know, the Lord is just waiting there with arms open wide for you to come to him, you know, run to him instead of away from him. And, you know, submit yourself to him and immerse yourself in his word and cling to his word. I am convinced the Lord will bring you the healing that you need and bring you the hope that you need. And I'd also encourage you to find an abortion recovery program. Many pregnancy care centers offer them. You can also find a Christian counselor or a pastor who can help you go through this process of healing. There is grief related to that. So, obviously a complicated pregnancy, you're probably getting regular check-ins with the doctor and ultrasound, making sure Nate is, you know, developing in other ways. But always with this condition, knowing that we're not sure how he's going to do it at the moment of birth. So that happens. Nate is born, he takes one breath and the doctors whisk him away.

15:33And he would tell us that feeling and what hope did you have in that moment when you're not even sure you're going to see your child alive again. Well, for me, I think knowing months in advance, what was going to happen, you know, knowing that he was going to need this intensive care, that actually helped me because there were no real surprises. So I knew that the moment he was born, he was going to be intubated and I wouldn't get to hold him. And so for me, in that moment, I wasn't fearful. I really wasn't because we went into it with just so much prayer and there were so many people who were praying for us, were praying for Nate, that I was actually really ready to give birth to the babies. And because there were these months and months of waiting, right? And then you're kind of at the point where we're like, okay, let's do this, you know, like. And so, but we definitely, there was so much prayer that went into this.

16:38And yeah. I was honestly, I was wrestling to be quite frank. Yeah. Because, as Christ has been saying, a lot of people were praying for it. And we were praying for miracles. And that, and my prayer was, my prayer, my hope was that God somehow would do a miracle that day. That Nate was, I was going to be born and that he's first gas of breath. He would cry and his lungs would be perfect and everything was be healed. That was my hope. And so, at that morning when we went for the delivery because it was planned, I was reading my Bible and the Lord gave us a verse and was the Tronomy 31, 7 and 8. To each, the Lord spoke to me and said, I am the one who goes ahead of you. So, your job is to trust me, to be courageous and just trust me. And then that verse really held me and us. So, when we went the day, even though I had that hope, when that didn't happen, that verse really held me.

17:46Because now I knew that, okay, now he's in Tibet, he's going to go into a journey that we don't know how that's going to turn out. Like, we didn't know what's going to happen. But that verse was a reminder for us. Okay, the Lord is the one that is ahead of this. I need to trust him. And then, multiple surgeries for Nate in a short period of time or what did that look like? What was the road for Nate? Right. At the beginning, they just needed to get him stable. So, intubated, getting enough oxygen and just stable, like living. Right. And he actually had his first surgery when he was eight days old. So, that was the big surgery that where they moved his intestines and liver back down. Fixed the diaphragm. Fixed the diaphragm. So, it was such a large hole that they had to patch it. And so, that patch will be there for his whole life. And so, he did actually, throughout his stay in the hospital with each little step that, you know, he needed to go through, they always came back to us saying that he did better than expected.

18:51And so, he made it through that surgery. But, unfortunately, he handed up, becoming, like, I think his liver became infected just due to the handling. Yeah. And so, for several weeks, he was dealing with a really serious infection. Wow. But they were able to reposition his lungs. So, that was the thing because even though they put all the other organs where it should be under or below the diaphragm, so that didn't mean necessarily that his lungs and everything was going to work. And that was the challenge because now, okay, the hole is patched. So, what's next? Is he going to be able to ever breathe on his own? So, that was the question that we didn't have an answer and the doctors didn't have an answer either. So, that was our prayer now was, okay, now, in addition of him being healed from all this infection, we need to pray that he was able to breathe on his own and sustain on his own, which, you know, took weeks and then...

19:52Yeah, but it started to happen, right? It did. His lungs started to grow. Yeah, so they had been so tiny, but they did start to grow. They did what they were supposed to do. Yeah, exactly. And we could even see from the x-rays that, yes, they were growing. That had to be encouraging, just to see that progress, but always, I would think I never experienced that. So, I'm, you know, the edginess of it. Is that going to be enough, Lord? Yes. This growth we see, we're excited. Thank you, Lord. But, is it going to be enough? Yes. Will he be able to breathe normally, etc.? It was difficult, as a mom, you know, to see your little boy who's struggling to survive. And, you know, for weeks, he wasn't actually receiving any, you know, breast malochar formula. He was just on the fluids to keep him alive. And then here, on the other hand, you have Emma, who's perfectly healthy. She's growing. She's plump and rosy. But, you know, yeah, there was definitely just like this, your heart breaks in a way to see one of your children suffering so much.

20:57Yeah. I was going to ask about the beads of courage. This is really important. This is really beautiful, actually. And this was a nurse at the hospital, or... This is a program they have for the babies that are in the NICU. Okay. I was introduced to the beads of courage. I don't know, a few days after Nate was born. But, basically, for every treatment that he had, while he was in the hospital, there was a certain bead. Each bead had a different meaning, right? So maybe purple was for a blood transfusion, or, you know, yellow is for something else. And so, for every little thing that he endured, every poke, every major surgery, every day in the hospital, he received a bead. And so, I was too overwhelmed with myself with the babies to string them myself. But the nurses, they would do it for us. And so, over, you know, the days and weeks, these beads, the beads of courage just grew, right?

22:01Until, I think they're about 15 feet long now. Wow. Let one little bead at a time. Yes. That kind of explains the trauma. Yes. Wow. That much time. And so, you know, the baby was born in the hospital, and then you got the news that we're done. You can take him home. He was in the hospital for 10 weeks. And it was a long 10 weeks. And that's what I meant, that, you know, that Kristen is very strong emotionally. She was really able to handle everything. And for me on my side, I was really emotionally struggling with the whole thing. I tried to reconcile, you know, what is happening with work and the other kids at home and all of that. And so, for us, I think a big day was on my birthday, actually. I come to the hospital and that day they were able to remove all the intubation.

23:05And he was breathing on his own. And that was the greatest birthday gift I ever got. And the Lord was gracious to me to give that. I needed that. And then after a couple of weeks, he was sent home. Yeah, that's beautiful. Let's just get the obvious question out there. How is he? He is doing great. He is a very active, happy, you know, joyful. Yeah, little boy, he's very, you know, he does well in school. He loves reading. He loves learning about all the different countries of the world. I think he's going to be a traveler one. How old is he now? He's eight. Yeah, eight years old. Yeah. Let me ask this hard question. In fact, you had a friend whose situation didn't turn out well. So on behalf of the viewers and the listeners that maybe are going through it. And they're not getting the treatment outcomes that you experience.

24:08Things begin to improve. Nate strengthened his breathing, increased his lungs, did grow. Yes. There's going to be others that are experiencing the opposite. It's not going in a good direction. And they're grieving. And they may have even lost their child. Yeah. And that's the hardest thing. Yeah. The human beings can experience as the loss of a child. What do you say to them? What did you say to your friend? Yeah. For the listener, I just want you to know, like, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't really can't imagine anything worse. I would just, you know, it's really hard. I mean, we, yeah, you wonder why did the Lord not answer my prayer? And my advice would be to cling to the Lord. He's still good. He still loves you. It's hard. We don't understand his ways. And yet, for some reason, in his sovereign will, this was what, you know, he chose. And that's not an easy thing to grasp and to say.

25:10But I would just encourage you to turn to the Psalms. The Psalms have helped me so much in my life. You know, there's many songs of the Psalms of lament. And the Lord, you know, he can handle our tough questions, you know, our anger. And I, you know, he can meet us in the hard place. Yeah. I think it's really, really hard. That's, you know, the age old question, why do we suffer? If you're a loving God, then why do children die? Yes. And, you know, they're not, they're not questions we can answer fully. Because especially for the pain in the heart of those parents that have lost a child. I don't even know that it's answerable, other than trust in the Lord. The only other observation I would have, you know, and I never had to deal with that kind of physical stuff. But I, you know, I was an orphan kid. We had, I had different things to deal with. But I do believe when a person can lean into the Lord, trust the Lord, love the Lord, regardless of their circumstances.

26:21Yes. That he smiles, God smiles. And it might be, I mean, I had thought about it in this context, but a parent who has lost their child, who can do that? He smiles the biggest for it. Yes. Because he knows the pain of that. I was going to, I was going to say that, Jim, I think you're right. I think we may never know the answer, why? But we feel, look at the cross. The cross tells us, may not tell us the answer for why? But the cross tells us that God cares. And I think that is the greatest evidence of God's love for us. If I add the cross, he showed that he cares for us. Christ took our suffering. He knows what pain is. He knows the pain of guilt, the pain of shame. He knows the pain of physical pain. So he took all of our pain. So whether we are struggling with the suffering self or we struggling with a wrong decision, we can all come to the cross.

27:21And we can bear that at the cross, knowing that Christ empathizes. He knows. And the cross shows us that he cares. Amen. So boy, this has been so encouraging and uplifting. And but what a grueling process that you both had to go through and coordinate. It had to go through the most. So it's great. He's eight years old. He's looking strong and doing well. Yes. We'll have to check in with you later to see at 15, how are things going? Hey, dad, could I have the keys? Maybe 16. Yes, it's okay. But out on the farm in Canada, you could probably drive very early. But man, this has been so good. So thank you. Sorry for the experience, but thank you for the testimony. And what God has taught you through all this. If this is touching a nerve for you, we want to be here for you. We do have Karen Christian counselors right here at Focus on the family. Be sure to call us. They'll schedule a time when they can call you back and talk with you and give you additional resources, including this great book, Saving Nate, to help you navigate your emotional and spiritual dilemmas as they are coming.

28:26You might even know somebody who could benefit from this type of book. So you could get that directly from Focus on the family. When you make a gift of any amount, we'll send it as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And let me also mention option ultrasound. You know, we've been doing this for 20 years now. I think we were the first that got into placing ultrasound machines into pregnancy resource clinics, partnering with them. But it was just an idea. We could get that out nationally, internationally. Do you want to help put an ultrasound machine? And that effort along with many additional things that we've been able to do at Focus on the family to wrap around those pregnancy resource clinics has resulted in over 550,000 babies being saved. That includes Canada, U.S. everybody. I mean, that is an awesome number. And we're excited about that. We have the data. And this is the data. $60 will save a baby's life. So if you're up for that, if you can afford $60 to save another person, let us know, send us that resource and we'll put it to work to do just that.

29:35And we'll report back next year. How many babies were saved? That's the accountability that I want Focus to have. So, man, that's it. Call a counselor. Call us for the resource. Save a baby's life. I don't think it gets any better than that. So just step up with us and get this done. Yeah, it's got as tuggy gun your heart respond by calling 800, the letter A in the word family, where we've got the details in the description below. And thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daily. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.