Focus on the Family with Jim Daly - Simple Ways to Improve Your Marital Communication

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Today on FocusOnTheFamily with Jim Dele, Dr. Ken Wilgis shares encouragement

for couples. Just hug each other for a minimum of six seconds six times a day and

feel the tiny static electricity that is there. It feels the awkwardness that is

it. Whatever you can't just hug, you'll feel something and it's that

connection or the tension in that connection. Thanks for joining us. I'm John

Fuller. We have a unique take on communication and marriage today from Dr.

Ken Wilgis. He'll explain how men and women process information differently

and he'll also remind us that there's something very special about being

married. There's a spiritual unity that occurs, right? And pain and marriage is

often caused by denying that spiritual connection. And singles stay with us.

There's some great encouragement for you as well toward the end of Ken's talk.

Dr. Ken is a licensed psychologist who specializes in couples therapy and

family therapy, especially for parents and teenagers. And we've had him on the

broadcast half a dozen times in the past talking about how to help teens become

competent adults. His insights are so good and here now is Dr. Ken Wilgis

speaking to our staff on Focus on the Family with Jim Daley.

It was 10 years ago. I remember this. I was standing in an Apple store and

ordering an iPhone in this cool, you know, the genius bar guy that knows

everything and saying, now when you come back in two weeks to pick up your phone,

I won't be here, but you can get it from somebody else. He said, I'm getting

married. And I said, dude, that is great. Marriage is great and he stopped and looked

at me stunned and he said, really? Thank you. No one that I know thinks I should

be getting married. Everyone's asking me, why are you getting married? That was

10 years ago. And you people know that that's only grown. The question of why

should I get married and what is this about is only getting more and more. And I

understand that. However, if there is a point or any advantage in a culture that

is growing darker, it does give us a chance as Christians to really ask and

drill down, why do we get married? What is marriage really about? We cannot

afford to show marriages that are just socially appropriate. Let my

grandparents, my mother's parents came to faith late and they were involved in

their church. My grandmother taught Sunday school. My grandfather was the

treasurer. I think it's because he didn't trust anyone else with the money. But

still, they were involved and they were married and they weren't going to

divorce and they didn't like each other. Not even close. Separate bedrooms. We

heard stories of my grandfather and they'd be driving together on a trip and he

did stop for gas and he'd drive off and forget she was with him. You know, but

this is Christian marriage or at least that used to kind of pass for that. We

cannot afford that anymore. The world is not going to go, wow, that's great. If

we define marriages, well, you're not supposed to get a divorce. So then what

does it look like? I can figure out most anyone else's marriage except mine.

There's something very intense about marriage and I want to tell you two

influences that made a big difference to me. A big difference. One of them is

that I've always been interested in communication and language. You know, like one

of the best speakers, the best teacher that I knew of language was Deborah

Tannen, who is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown University. And she

talked about that, yes, men and women vary a great deal. Like there's about

60% overlap in the way men and women are temperament wise. But when they

communicate, there tends to be some almost subconscious agreement about the

rules of communication that are not spoken. For example, women tend to when

you're communicating, most women have a third ear for this. Wait a minute, I'm

hearing the words you're saying, but does that say that you and I are close? Or

are we distant? Are we intimate? And the same are we far apart? It's a tendency

to listen for that in relationship. But men have a tendency to listen this way.

More of, wait a minute, just what you're saying mean that you think you know more

than I do. Where do we fit status wise? And what are you requiring me to do? It's

kind of the language of instrumental behavior, like getting stuff done. And that

kind of made some sense for much of what I was saying. But it didn't make it

sense for everything. And the other thing I was reading, stick with me here, was a

series delivered by Pope John Paul II called Atheology of the Body. And there's

been a much writing about it, and now Saint Paul II, John Paul II, that talked

about the body and our physicalness in Scripture. And I have to tell you, it

just blew my mind and connected things that I was seeing in relationship I had

never seen before. So most people would say, if you really want to look at

Scripture in about marriage, probably an important, if not the most important

place to start is Matthew 19. And you'll remember this part, this is a focus

on the family. You people know all this stuff. I'm sure you've memorized it. But

Matthew 19 is when Jesus is asked by these Pharisees, really tested about

divorce. You remember that? And Jesus, like he has a tendency to do, completely

blows their paradigm. He answers by saying, have you not read that he who created

them from the beginning made them male and female and said, therefore, a man shall

leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife. And the two shall

become one flesh. What, therefore, God has joined together, let not man separate.

That's a weird mind-blower for a couple of main reasons. One of the big ones is

that he first is asked about the law. Isn't marriage, you know, a

agreement, a legal, yes? But he answers from creation. Marriage is founded not

in a legal agreement, but in human. It means that marriage isn't a Christian

thing. It's not even a religious thing. It's a human thing. It is how we were

created. It is a fundamental aspect of creation. He who created them from the

beginning, who was that was created them from the beginning? Jesus. John

one tells us this is the pre-incarnate Christ is the one that created us this

way. So it takes us to Genesis 2, which is that very weird story of the

creation of humans. You remember that? How many humans did God create? One. Out

of the clay or whatever. He blows life into it. Why does he create the human? To

image God. To be here it's all of creation and here is this human to be the

God. Today the part of God will be played by and he makes this human. And then he

says the weirdest thing he says as the image bearer he says it's not good for

this human to be alone and I'll fix that problem. And remember how he fixed it

and this is really important. Didn't scoop up more clay and blow life into

that. He what? He puts the cause of deep sleep to come on the man, right? And while

he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up his place and the rid the Lord

had taken. He made into a woman and brought her to the man. He took the human that

didn't look right as a singular and divides him into a male human and a

female human. What was part of him is now her and says interacting as one

that looks a little more like me. It's a very weird story and a you need to tell

more because what does Adam say when the woman comes to him is brought to him? This

at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. He's stunned that that's me. She is me.

And that's what humanity does to look like God. Why is marriage so hard? Well to

really understand what's so hard about marriage because you get this man and the woman

they are one and working in unity. You have to get to Genesis 3. Genesis 3, another weird

story where you remember sin. Sin enters the world and what was the sin? The sin was to be like God.

You will eat of this fruit and your eyes will be opened a strange way to describe becoming

blind. Your eyes will be open and you will be like God basically making your own decisions

about what's good and bad. And so they did eat. Their eyes were opened to another reality

but they didn't become like God. They just thought like God. That's the tribe we're all in.

We are the creatures who think as if we are a God. And I would imagine that was fun for them

for about 30 seconds. I don't know how long they could look around and go, you know, I don't

think that trees as good as God said and whatever until they look at themselves. And this is true

of all of us. You know full well when you look at you, nobody likes their own body.

So many of our young people don't realize that no, it's not that you need to get past that

feeling bad about you. They need to talk to other brothers and sisters that go, oh yeah,

no, no. We all hated our own body, how we judge ourselves. And they judged themselves,

they knew they were naked, exposed. And what did they do? They sewed fig leaves together. Now stick

with me. What is it they didn't like about their body? They didn't cover, they didn't make hats

and gloves. I think the King James Version, they make it aprons. They covered their connecting

parts. Let's take the man. He's now sewn away to cover himself. Who's he covering from?

God hasn't shown up in the story yet. And remember when God shows up, you got to run. You're a

little leaf and you're going to help you. Who is he covering from? He's covering from her.

He is judgment of himself that this is not good. And I need to cover that. He thinks she thinks

that same thing. He assumes she is looking at him, how he looks at him. Do you follow me?

And you know he wasn't paying attention because if he did, he would notice that she was too busy

sewing her own leaves. Who is she covering from? Him. She had judged herself and assumed he thought

the same way. The man and the woman were not covering the same thing. What they felt,

and this is far more than just body parts, what they felt and the shame they experienced

were different kinds of shame. The man is covering his effectiveness, his strength,

his man, all the things you can think of that, if you think about it more, it'll go into jokes

and so forth, all about a man's defensiveness of whether he's adequate. But the woman isn't

covering the same thing. She's covering a receiving, a much more vulnerable, a something much more

about her loveliness and her inviting. It's a whole different thing she feels. And they're covering

from each other because they assume they are thinking the judgment of each other that they have

for themselves and they're not the same judgment. Pain and marriage then, pain and marriage

comes from denying that you're spiritually connected. Not that you need to become spiritual,

you are connected. Marriage is a three-legged race and if you don't know it, you're going to just

be falling all over the place and hurting yourself. You are connected. When you go through difficult

times in your marriage, it's important to think about Jesus got you into this. This is his deal.

What do you want from me? Why am I struggling like this? You are connected. You are joined.

Your self-judgment, you feel, is coming from your spouse's mouth and you try to ignore it.

You can try to ignore it, but you can't make it go away. Married people are never two individuals

who just happen to be living together. You remember my grandparents? Just, you know, separate bedrooms,

whatever. That's how they lived until my grandmother, the last probably about two years of her life.

She had a series of strokes that left her with dementia with two major features. Number one,

the only person she regularly remembered was my grandfather. She often didn't even know her own

daughter, my mother. It didn't know us, so she knew him and secondly, she never really knew that

she was at home. This means that for 18 months, she shuffled around her own house saying,

Ike, we got to go home. Ike, we got to go home. And it was sad to watch. And my grandfather was a

good man and we knew he would do the right thing and put her somewhere that she could be taken care of.

Guess what? My grandfather wouldn't hear of it. He did not want her taken from him. He watched over

her and this was even weirder. They started like kissing and stuff. Whoa, whoa, they're like,

Grandma, what are you doing? They were, they loved each other. They had denied this all this time,

but once that changed, she needed him and she knew it and he knew she needed him. What happened

was that resentment. Those layers blew away and they were suddenly the married people they always

had been. Always had been. You can deny it, but you can't have a marriage that isn't that way.

You're always interacting with each other. But what do we do in marriage? So if you look at Ephesians

5, and I'm actually going to start with the second part, husbands are told to love your wives,

but love them as your own flesh, love your wives as their own bodies. That's a particular kind of

love. It is showing her the connectedness. It is reinforcing to her that we are connected.

Remember how women think of things? I can't tell you how many husbands I know waste their time

trying to be heroic by the expensive gift and all these things that that woman doesn't appreciate.

You're doing it wrong. You're not actually thinking about the way that reinforces unity to her.

Do things that reinforce that you are thinking about her. If you think about it when women talk

to each other about a problem, listen to women talking to each other. Most of the time are very

often what they're looking for is a witness to my experience. You will hear a woman say to a woman,

oh, I know. I know, right? And I've told many husbands tattoo on your hand, oh, I know,

right? Because men think their wives want you to do something about it. It's kind of cold in

here. Okay, here. Take my shirt. I'll talk to the waiter. No, no, no, no. Probably she'll want to

hear. I know. It's kind of chilly in here last time. That, believe it or not, is helpful to her

to know that you and I see the same thing. And it's weird. We'll get to the minute. How often men

don't see that. But just sharing and witnessing her experience, oh, I know. Showing and doing

things that know you're thinking about her versus trying to do it right. If you're good enough

at this, for your 25th wedding anniversary, you could buy your wife a rock. I don't mean a diamond,

a rock. She'd open it up and go, it's a rock. And you go, you know, where that rock came from.

Do you remember when we were in Canada and we climbed up that mountain and we, so I called the

guy and he went and if you had enough story behind that rock. Do you know what I mean, women?

If there's enough story behind the rock, it'll be up on your mantelpiece because it shows what

she needs to know. Are we connected? Instead, men are like, well, I got her a three carat,

well, we couldn't even afford it. She was like, we can't afford it. Yeah, that's not really the

thing that shows her that we're connected. Now, marriage work is to reinforce unity. Husbands love

your wife as your own flesh. Like yourself. Show that you are connected to her. It's probably

easier than you think. For women, again, what if wives submit to your husbands as under the

Lord? Which, by the way, of course, the only way you can do it? If you submit to your husband

to the degree he deserves it, he'll be waiting a long time. We know that. We get that. It's doing

it as unto your real husband, the Lord. But what if instead it is actions and words that you show

that you appreciate him and you respect his efforts? Not because of how great he is, but because

of how sensitive he is, because he's covering. He's hiding and he needs to hear or it's helpful to him

to show that he's winning with you. And I don't mean, you know, you're doing a lot better on that

Bible study. That sounds like a five, you know, like a kindergarten teacher. It's not that. It's

that winning with you. It sounds more like, by the way, I was thinking yesterday, when you call to

ask how the doctors, I love when you do that. Thank you so much for that. That means you can get your

guy to do anything. There was a doctor, Laura. Did you ever hear her on the radio? She said that if you

will cheer him on, feed him, and give him affection, he'll do anything you want in response. And

he didn't even mind saying it. He's like, yeah, that's pretty much all I need. And that kind of

encouragement, again, to help him with his shame and his struggle, cheering him on, which means,

by the way, for some of you, it means learning to let him do things for you. Some women are really

good at taking care of everything. And wonder, what's the problem here? Well, he really needs to know

where do you need him. You're playing the part of the church. You can't possibly tell the story of,

well, the church in Christ, sometimes Jesus needs our help. And he, no, no, no, no, he came to get us.

It's the most romantic story ever. And that's closer to what he is needing from you. When you do

talk to your husband about things that bother you, do you know how many women have told me?

I can't tell my husband how I feel without him getting defensive. Look, you know why? Well,

it's not your fault. You're doing fine. He's the one hearing it as critique. But if you listen,

women, if you listen to men talk to each other, which they don't do a lot of, but they're getting

better, when they talk to each other, especially about something tense. If I'm talking to my brother

about something I'm disagreeing with them on a web, I will start with an apology. I'll preface it

with something. You'll hear men say, dude, I mean, this is not my business and you're good at this.

But he'll start by kind of going down. Like, I don't want to come in high because it helps with

this kind of thinking. Where do we stand status wise? So it's very important that when you want to

tell him the things that concern you and you must never bite your tongue. It only makes it worse for

you and him. But it can actually help sometimes to start with, listen, I'm not saying you're a

terrible father. I mean, you obviously do do well at it. But yesterday, when you said,

and believe it or not, it can help a man hear you, not because you're saying it wrong,

but because it is the way he hears it. Lastly, when you're disagreeing, and this is important,

because you will get into your God-like judgment of, okay, he's wrong. She's wrong about this.

You must keep in mind that you're joined. You are connected. If you talk to your spouse in a way

that lights up their shame, you're wrong even if you're right. If a man tells his wife what's

right, and men are big on that, by the way, men are always going, I'd like to stop here. Can I

just tell you what really happened? Like, the accurate, that's how we think we're seeing,

and she's all emotional, is if that isn't accurate. But when you try to tell your wife a thing,

you feel strongly about that says to her that implies, I don't care what you feel about this.

I don't want to know what your thoughts are on it. I'm just going to tell you, you're wrong even if

you're right, because she is your other half, and she is fearful of one main thing. She thinks she's

alone, and she's afraid. She thinks she is alone, and she is afraid. So in disagreement, a husband

must always be careful to help her to know I'm hearing you. I want to know what your experience

of this is and what your thoughts are, more than whether you completely agree with her at the end of

it, it's knowing that she's connected to you. And women, it's also difficult that even when you

know he's way off on this, not even close, but he needs to hear the help from you that you're not

completely disrespecting it. There's a way to talk to a husband. Look, I'm not saying you don't

know anything about this, but to kind of help him not to feel crushed in what he is dealing with.

And lastly, then is this fix our shame? If husband and wife know this, is this how Christians get

through this? And the answer is no. Believe it or not, that's Genesis 321. Remember the weird part

at the end? God does not show up and say, look, you have sinned, stop judging yourselves in

each other, and just judge the world as you can't. Apparently, this thinking like God is a fatal

and irreversible condition. So what does he do? He covers them with skins, right? And God

made for Adam and his wife, garments of skin. Who is that prefiguring? Jesus, the answer in marriage

isn't to just be able to lift each other enough you won't. It is to also know that in marriage is

the rehearsal for all of our lives, singles as well, that you're dealing with Jesus.

Men, when you are feeling like your wife is shaming you, no, number one, she's not.

She's talking like a regular woman. She's not even aware of that. Our marriages are about

drawing us to him. Jesus should make some difference to us as husbands, that he is right behind your

wife saying, whatever nightmare thing you think you're hearing, that you're terrible or whatever

he's going to your mind. I've made you hold your mind and hope it makes some difference.

For women, it's the same thing. That feeling of alone, which is so common, your husband will

never do enough that you won't worry that I don't think he thinks about me at all.

There must be comfort in knowing that Jesus is the man. He is the one who can quote Isaiah to you,

would a mother forget her own child. I will never forget you. I have carved you into the palms of my

hand. He is the man that you are really married to. It's awkward for your husband to be wearing the

Jesus suit because it doesn't fit well. It is Christ who will never tell you, well, that hurt,

that feeling, that's not important. Jesus never does that. He is the man that should comfort you,

even when your husband fails at that, it's knowing that we are covered by his love, his sacrifice

and his submission. For those of you that are single, which apparently that's the thing today,

I was told, is I think it's really important that you really take into account that your

singleness is not the same as the world's singleness. You are married. For you who are women that do

have that concern of, is there something wrong with me? Am I not what is that? Let Jesus speak to you.

Who adores you? I mean adores you. And for single men, again, Christian men are not

single like the world's secular men. You are adequate to marriage. All you have to do is to look

for the answer to, is this someone you would have for me to marry and let him cover that sense of,

I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know if I would even know if I am ready. I hear that all the time

from you. I get that. But the answer to that is letting Jesus cover your inadequacy knowing

that all it takes is in prayer, I think he wants me to marry, then do it. Then don't worry

as much. I can't believe how much young men think about whether I didn't think that much about

marriage. I just wanted to be married. I wanted to be married to her. And Jesus took me there more

than I even knew. So that's what I wanted to tell you is the work that I've done and marriage

has gone from. This is too hard and I quit. To recognizing that, wait a minute, marriage isn't

our relationship. It is the relationship. And whether you are married or single, we are all in

the same boat working our lives out with our husband. The guy who never married and called himself

the bridegroom who has come to get us because he loves you and he has covered you,

has made you adequate and made you to be ever alone.

What a great reminder from Dr. Ken Wilgis that when we know Jesus Christ, we're truly never alone.

Yeah, that is a beautiful thought. What a comfort it is to think of it in that way that he is

sufficient and he's covered those sins for us. And our thanks to Ken for visiting our campus

and sharing this message with our team here. And I hope you've enjoyed it as well. I think it's a

message for everyone. We're adding it to our nurturing the heart of your spouse collection,

which is free. It's a free audio download, almost six hours of tried and true biblical advice for

your marriage. Find it at our website. And when you're online with us, follow the link to our free

marriage assessment in just 10 minutes. You can take the quiz and learn your strengths and maybe

some areas where there's opportunity for growth. Then you can access articles to address those

weaker areas in your relationship. It's easy in lightening and free. And let me encourage you to

also consider donating to focus on the family. We're a nonprofit ministry and we rely on financial

support from donors like you. We can do ministry together every day here at focus on the family.

So get in touch with us and be a part of the team. Yeah, donate when you click the link in the

show notes or call for details 800 the letter A and the word family 800 232 6459. When you're

online with us, be sure to get your free access to the collection. It features Dr. Greg Smalley,

Shanti Feldhahn, two great messages from Dan Seaborne and more. And it also has this show from Dr.

Ken Wilgis with extra content. And as Jim said, be sure to check out our free marriage assessment as

well. Thanks for listening to focus on the family with Jim daily. Take a moment and leave a comment

and a rating for us in your podcast app and be sure to share this episode with a friend who might

need the encouragement that Dr. Wilgis had for us today. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we

once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide.

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I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast. Re-focus with Jim daily. I visit with

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