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11 o'clock on Thursdays is no your history time with Shannon Gill. We're taking our cues here
from Andrew Dylan who last week was talking about Aussie rules as an exhibition sport at the Olympics.
In 1956 in Melbourne where Australian rules football was the exhibition sport. So I think our sport
is a sport that should be on that stage and we'll work closely with the Olympic Committee on
what form that takes. And this is classic no your history material. What on earth took place in
1956 when the vaffa be to combine VFL VFA team ahead of the bronze medal match of soccer at the MCG.
Shannon, hello Jared, I know go behind the curtain. I think as Andrew Dylan said those words in
that press conference, I saw a text message from you saying this has got no your history written
all over it. So we vaguely know the outline of this. Yeah, we do. But what the hell was the detail
of it? And the details good. And I actually I spoke to someone who played in the game this week.
So good. So I'll talk about that in a second. And this is where we hand over to you. So 1956,
what I've had callers in the past of those who attended the Melbourne Olympics. What do you know
about the Aussie rules exhibition game that was played as part of the Melbourne Olympics?
The 40 wings temper text is 043 98 1116. The difference is temper and the email is
waitly at sen.com.au paraphernalia photos anything you've got we would love you to share it with us.
Now I know when this when Andrew Dylan said that there were some
disingenuous commentary from people about all the AFLs trying to be an Olympic sport and that
was never the case. I think just get that on the record. That was never the case. He was talking
about an exhibition game like what happened in 1956. Now I've lent heavily on the MCC libraries
come through with the goods here. They there is an edition of their magazine called The Yorker
which has had a really great piece on this a little while ago some years ago by guy called David
shout out to David and the MCC library for assisting on this one. So at the time in the Olympics
there was a precedent that there would be two demonstration sports played at an Olympic Games.
One would be a local sport and one would be an international sport. So for example in the 1932
games in LA American football was played a match between two grid iron teams. So two college grid iron
teams which makes sense that was the local sport. Now I'm seeing text messages already. I sent this
to you. Nice. And we'll get to that. We will get to that. We will get to the games play this game.
Just any on the question. Anyway so after Melbourne gets the Olympics and we talked a little
bit about Melbourne getting the Olympics last year and the whole kerfuffle around what stadium it
was going to be played like why why wouldn't it have been played at the MCG. There is discussion
about what sports could be the demonstration sports. Specifically what could be the local sport.
Now you would think that this is a no brainer. We have a local sport that it's home is in Melbourne.
It was born in Melbourne. Born at the MCG where we're going to do the Olympics that it would be
Australian rules. Now people people argued about this which is feels like a no brainer but it
wasn't like bizarre. So they talked about Australian rules and surf lifesaving as being the two
possible sports which I kind of get surf lifesaving. Now the sports that are of the sun a guy
called Peter Bennett. Now you would think the sun would be plumping for Australian rules football.
No he says neither surf lifesaving or Aussie rules are truly national and it should be golfer tennis
which that kind of defeats the purpose. There's not a local sport golfer tennis ahead of his time
though. Yes. For what the Olympics would have become but he is the editorial reads the Victorian
Olympic Council waivers between surf lifesaving and amateur Australian rules. Football is its
choice for the national game of the 1956 Olympics in Melbourne. This is they're all very strange
as neither has any claim to be our national sport. Peter, too shate that is a very strange
position to take. It's quite weird particularly when you're the sporting editor of a Melbourne
newspaper. I would have thought you were probably going to plump for Aussie rules. Some other
suggestions which there's some logic in this the age suggests boomerang throwing could be
the local demonstration sport which okay there's some logic to that but look
Saturday prevails and by 1954 it took till 1954 to make the decision. But the most ingenious
suggestion so far is that there's nothing more Australian could be organized than an exhibition
of boomerang throwing by the aborigines to read the quote read the newspaper piece which I get
that that that makes more sense than some of the other suggestions I'd say but but no Australian
rules got the gig but there was lots of issues with how Australian rules was going to be showcased
which we will we will get to. What was the international sport? The international sport was
baseball so baseball has continued at times in the Olympics at different times so so baseball was
the international sport and Australian rules was the local sport. So Australian rules wins the day
they win the day. Now this is the scenario so the Melbourne 56 Olympics was held November 22 to
December 8 so out of 40 season now even so the VFL season was actually brought forward a fortnight
to accommodate this so the grand final was held on the 15th of September and just for a bit of
context the northern stand or the Olympic stand as it was as it was also known was opened in 1956
specifically for the Olympic Games but it was opened during the 40 season and it got a test run
on grand final day 115,000 people turn up on grand final day and they reckon more actually got in
because they broke in too they knocked down some doors to get in so that was the highest ever
crowd for a 40 game now can say that that 115,000 was not topped during the Olympics so the Olympics
didn't actually top that for the closing or opening ceremonies but as far as this Australian rules
there was a big issue the issue was who would play now the Olympics at the time was strictly an
amateur event and while the demonstration sport being Australian rules was not a competition for
medals it was under the auspices of the IOC and under their rules at the time that how things
have changed now that we see NBA players or play in the Olympics no professional players could
step foot onto an Olympic venue and play any sort of sport even if it was a demonstration sport
so anyone who had ever been paid to play was ruled out of playing in this exhibition match so
this is a this is a really problem because while we don't recognise you know the 1950s is the
professional era or we see the professional era as the day when players stopped working day jobs
and football became their day jobs but the players still got paid in the 50s to play and back in
that time even back further so even though they weren't getting paid much they were deemed professionals
so the vast majority of VFL players got paid so they were ruled out of playing in this special
one-off exhibition match so they had to find amateur players to play now there's a whole story
about amateurs and professionals which I think is probably more or almost more of an English and
an English cricket thing about where amateurs had one change room and professionals had another
change room the whole concept in really basic terms was that some who has significant
professional careers outside of sport would actually choose to play as amateurs and not take
money to play it was this sort of purity thing and that they were in in English terms they were
sort of the higher class people who already who who had money already into need to and money
now that did filter through to here as well Dennis Cordner who ended up captaining the VFL team
on this day he was an industrial chemist he chose to play as career as an amateur and others
chose others would choose amateur status some so they could continue to compete as amateurs in
other sports so there's some people that would compete in athletics and want to compete as amateurs
so anyway that's the amateur professional divide so what do they do so there is the vaffa still
today the Victorian Amateur Football Association which is obviously amateurs because that amateurs
in the name so that league was happening they had a representative team that would play in
representative games so it made sense that well there's already made amateur team of reasonable
quality that we can get to play so that's going to be one team you know then they scour the VFL
to find well how many amateurs are there in the VFL there's not many that A are amateurs and B
can be bothered playing a game in December so they found a group that who could play but not
enough for a full team so eventually they joined together with the VFA who players still got paid
in the VFA but found a bunch of amateurs in the VFA too that's where Lindsay Gays comes in so
Lindsay and his brother Barry were amateurs in the VFA now Lindsay didn't actually play in the game he
was an emergency unfortunately so that sort of ruins ruins the romance of Lindsay Gays playing
football in this but he was picked in the squad I believe he might have a Guernsey I've seen the
Guernsey yeah so he got all the spoils out of it VFL players declare status amateur footballers who
play for VFL teams must sign the same declarations of amateur status as actual competitors in the
Olympic games if they intend competing in the proposed exhibition of Australian rules at the games
the ruling decided on by the VFL was announced at last night's league meeting so this is quite
weird that that how involved it was to get this game going and I spoke so so there's Tobin plays
he played one game for North Melbourne as a 17 year old in 1956 he's of the famous Tobin family the
Tobin brothers so he plays one game for North Melbourne as a 17 year old in 1956 he's playing
mainly under 19s so he was selected late in the season now at the time Des's father was the VFL
delegate for North Melbourne and there was a little bit of insider trading here Des's father knew
that this game was coming up because he'd been to some meetings and he also knew that they were
battling to get aside to get up for this special game because there was no amateurs in the league
so Des's father recommends to Des do not take any money for this game and retain your amateur status
because you will be a chance to play in this special game that's coming up that no one's really
quite aware of just yet so and the funny thing with Des this is so he only played that one VFL
game but he was picked to play in this game as an amateur so there's a bunch of there's some
experience VFL players who are amateurs a few a bunch of sort of 17 and 18 year olds who
were still amateurs by virtue of the fact that they were just playing under the means and they
might have got a game here and there and then a bunch of VFL players so a lot of those 17 year old
18 year olds actually became really great players and we'll talk about that a bit later
all right so we're going to name the teams the Guernseys and then what did it actually look
like as the curtain raised or bronze medal soccer match at the MCG know your history of the
1956 Australian rules exhibition game at the Melbourne Olympics Shannon Gill taking us through it
in rules it's a fever there they even climb the roof and sit on the main rich pole
played in a huge mark double with 18 aside Australian rules was one of two demonstration
games played in the main stadium at Melbourne it's certainly interested in the thousands who've
only seen soccer union league or gridiron the two demonstration teams at the Olympics were
privileged to meet the chairman of the organizing committee the honorable Sir Wilfred Kent Hughes
but the foremost international football game is soccer you can pick an IOC film just from the first
three words the official film of the 1956 Melbourne Games Shannon Gill with no your history here
yeah I didn't get the best the best showing from that film I got to say but what they did get
Guernseys have you seen these Guernseys I have seen the I've seen one of them yes okay the great
yeah I've seen the VFL VFA one okay the VFL VFA one was a green Guernsey white color and coughs
Olympic rings on the front and then the vaffer one was the was the reverse was white with green
collar and cuffs and the Olympic rings on the front they look spectacular these Guernseys I've
got to say there's somewhat I've read somewhere in that that they produce replicate Guernseys
into coincide with the 2000 Olympics and sold them I've never seen one and I clearly didn't know
because I reckon I would have bought one so they were they were the Guernseys they wore now this
game was played on Friday December 7 which is the the second last day of the Olympics as you said
the bronze medal soccer match it was it was the curtain razor to the footy game we could run a
pole on who might have played the bronze medal soccer match and no one will get close it's it's
mind blowing Bulgaria V India which just in 1956 what happened with India and soccer like what what
went on there because what could what could have been now there are problems there are problems
of how they're going to stage this game and beforehand Bruce Welsh who's ahead of his time in the age
describes this the game that's coming up we should give this the full pop right okay game on MCG
senders will not be so hot by Bruce Welsh the exhibition of Australian rules football listed for
the MCG on the second last day of the Olympic Games looks like being one of the greatest sporting
fastest seen in Melbourne hot take Bruce so this is because of the athletics track so the athletics
is held earlier in the games it's a a sender athletics track but they the track can't be ripped up
and replaced by grass in this in this time frame but they also decide they're not going to cover
with dirt or grass so while the sort of the the little barriers around the track are gone the lane
markings are gone there is this sender track inside the playing field which raises all sorts of
questions in the first place bizarre in the first place is what what this track was and I'm struggling
to even explain what it was and the players themselves have talked talked about the fact that they
were getting their their stops stuck in the track and how they could this like obviously the the
track ran around the the edges of the ground so the goal square was a sender track all I sort of
stuff the the ground is actually reduced by about 30 metres anyway because of everything that's
going on and if you look at the closing ceremony of the games there's this it just looks like the
the athletes are marching on a dirt track it looks ugly it's not the way we know it today so
but even more bizarre one of the rules for the Olympics is that once the Olympic flag was
hoisted high on the main field in the main stadium it had to stay there for the duration of the
games right the Olympic flag this is not up on the top of the stand or it's planted it's in the
in the grass area where the field events would take place forward pocket city and forward pocket
city end yep on the ground but they can't take it down so this is the equivalent of playing around
the tree yes in the corner of the oval I once played cricket in England on a ground with a tree
in the middle of it and that was bizarre but this is so they they actually I believe they they
brought the boundary line in around the around flag all around the the flag how where is Bruce
Wilkes peace calling for this to be scrapped so so for for all for all it went on the other things
that were talked about too is that they had to just they did end up covering like the long jump pit
with grass and dirt mercifully those the steeple chase areas they had to sort of cover up so
as as there's as I said there's they would run on the ground or he told me they would run on the
ground and all of a sudden there'd be a drop where the cinder track was and so it was not an easy
thing to play on it's amazing this game actually happened yeah obviously like in today's you know
none of this would happen in today's today's environment but this did happen then
all right so we need teams the fact that the vaffa beats the VFL VFA has always been the unanswerable
question you're going to go some way toward answering that for us and then the reaction
so I don't know how hot a ticket Bulgaria in India was for the bronze medal match how how
hot a ticket was this it did it have the Melbourne buzzing we'll find out in a few moments time
Shannon Gill is running no your history on the exhibition game of the 1956 Olympics so some
messages Hayden can we reinstate the 1956 VFL PA very good AFLX coming to an Olympics near you that's
from Jeff another Jeff was my former teacher Jeff Tundbridge declared ineligible as he accepted
petrol money for traveling from ballerat and receiving a meat pie before each game who won need the
final score steady on we're getting there all right Shannon pick up the story for us so the
final scores with it the vaffa one which is quite ridiculous in in a way final scores 12-9-81
the VFL VFA team 875 now the first quarter the vaffa came out hot 6-1 to the VFL VFA team one goal
so how did this actually happen now again I've spoken from the horse's mouth spoke to Dez the
who was playing for the VFL so I don't know if these are excuses from Dez but this is what he
told me so at the time he says that the difference between the VFL and a league like the vaffa was
much less pronounced than what we now know so there were players in the vaffa team who could have
easily been successful VFL players but had prioritized their career over a VFL career because the
the rewards and the prestige were not as it is today an example being Tony Capes doctor who was a
doctor end up being the president of footscrap many years later but he was a player who Dez believed
would easily have been a very good VFL player but didn't chose not to play the vaffa team was
also a rep team that regularly played so they were used to playing together they were picked as a
team and had that sort of that team function that the VFL and VFA team didn't because they were
very much cobbled together and the VFL VFA team had some great players but they were a bunch a lot
of teenagers played and many of the guys would become great players but seven of the players were
actually in their first season and a lot of them were teenagers so they were to a degree a bunch
of kids and as we said Lindsey Gates didn't play he was an emergency he's brother Barry played in
the VFL VFA team so there's that's the reasons given as to how the vaffa beat the might of the VFL
because the the might of the VFL was not that mighty okay so we should go through the VFL VFA team
for some name recognition here so Dennis Cordner captain from Melbourne Keith Woolnow vice captain
from Northgate Ray Gabbitch from Collinwood Brian Gray Collinwood Ken Turner Collinwood Jeff
Westercott Footscray Brendan Edwards Hawthorne Brian Colopy Melbourne Laurie Dwyer North Melbourne
Ray Olsop Richmond Frank Dunnan Richmond Vick Nase Smith Richmond Brian Walsh St Kilda Neil McNeil
South Melbourne Dave Plunkett Box Hill Jack Sasella Coburg Barry Gays Peran Dez Tobin North
Melbourne TJ Hussey Northgate was a reserve Keith Marshall Sanderingham a reserve sadly there's
no Lindsey Gays is reserve on that list but he he was so some of the recognizable names there who
are early in their career yeah so Brendan Edwards goes on to be a great player who would have
won a normal Smith in today's today's game there's a whole bunch of Collinwood premiership players
there Dennis Cordner this was actually his last game of football he he had won the flag that year
with Melbourne retired but came out of retirement for one night only to play this game so so yeah
there's some there's some names Laurie Dwyer ends up being a great player for North Melbourne so
there's a whole bunch of them what is maybe more interesting is that there's a whole crew of
vaffer players who get the call up to play the VFL the next year so impressed so impressed the
scouts yeah so four players debuude in the VFL that next season all the season after now the most
successful a guy called Dick Fenton Smith who do you think Dick Fenton Smith would have played for
Melbourne he did he did so he kicked four goals in this game was named second best for the vaffer
recruited by Melbourne given the number one jumper was given number one before he played again
and plays in a flag in his first season ends up playing three seasons two grand three grand finals
two flags and there would be an argument to say that his performance that day lifted him to be
elevated to become a VFL player that's so good so just having a look through the vaffer team that
they're drawn from collegians old male bernians university blacks old scotch old paradians gloriously
the Commonwealth Bank yes university blacks Ivanhoe amateur powerhouse ormond coberg amateurs
and uh division old paradians yes yeah so it's yeah and and they were a team that played in
national amateur competitions and so forth all right so the vaffer wins the reactions we will do
next Shannon Gill's history of the Australian rules exhibition game at the Melbourne Olympics
never as Texas Shannon I was on the ground staff at the mcg between 1987 and 2001 when the
ground was reconstructed while the new great southern stand was being built the oval was excavated
to a depth of 1.5 meters to allow for new drainage sand and sand to be installed during excavation
the base of the Olympic running track was still there I got myself a jammed in full of cinder
that I still have cheers and they're fantastic they love to say it's fantastic
what why didn't they remember the running track it just makes it very long zero so a lot of this
that's very odd okay so we played the game and you've done a great job here the ages reporting of it
so it comes under a photo of this crowd endeavoured to catch a glimpse of the Duke of Edinburgh
driving his Lagonda sports car as he left the main stadium yesterday after watching the Australian
rules football demonstration headline visitors were rude about our football
wild start reporter now this is all worthy of reading this is such a good piece so no one put their
name to it I think this is the first takeout yeah and that was happening then too a perplexed
American look down on the main stadium turf yesterday turned in his seat and asked what gives
with these guys in the white butcher's coats the ghosts of a thousand football matches side
sacrilege and four victor and four victorians made menacing gestures in the general direction of the
Americans left eye this was our football he was talking about internationalism was out nationalism
the fiercest variety was in at the Olympic Games yesterday Australian rules football was being
demonstrated and Victorian hackles were high butchers coats indeed at least our football goal umpires
don't look like the complicated buffoons who pass from pies in American baseball misgivings so
you rightly point out this piece fluctuates between pride in the game and pointing out the
ridiculousness of what is taking place Dennis Cordner in green and white with colored rings on his
chest a scandalous masquerade then I do like our state robbery most of the insults came from the
traditional source the fiercely jealous and unoriginal state of New South Wales where men pick up
a football and run with it yet call it football foreign observers were divided into two broad groups
the first nearly all of them English and French dismissed the game as merely another example of new
world foolishness second and they included men from both hemispheres and three continents
thought it looked fun Chicago journalists Jim Danaway thought it looked like one long fumble
at first later he began to appreciate it how did our game play Shannon would you say on recollection
look the game itself they actually described the game it wasn't the higher standard game because we
didn't have the higher standard players so probably wasn't the greatest showcase the the ground
was in its state that it was in wasn't the greatest showcase either apparently 36,000 people turned
up on that day but apparently apparently 20,000 left before the before our footy game because I've
got this the wrong way around yeah so the Olympic bronze medal match was the courage to our
exhibition game between the Vaffa and the amateurs of the VFL it started at 4.30 in the afternoon
this game twilight was a twilight game I wonder they could catch on so all happened before
other thing about this so I love this part there's has got there's my man there's has got all his
gear he's got the he's got the goons he's got the photo of the team but what he's also got is a
medal because every participant in the 1956 Olympics got a medal just for competing so just
for everyone who thinks participation trophies are the death of society this was happening in 56 as
well so if you even if you you might want a bronze medal you also got a special Melbourne Olympics
medal all of our 40 footballers that took part got a participation medal because they didn't compete
for medals but they competed in the Olympics and he still has the medal that's so great
other legacy piece of that about this there were cameras they're covering the games because this
is the birth of TV in Australia what they did on the day and Russell Jackson wrote a piece about this
some years ago which is really really interesting they did a test run on a closed circuit TV inside
the ground where they broadcast and filmed the footy game which is seen as if not the first one
of the first proper attempts at broadcasting footy even though it didn't see the light of day
and this was a test run for what would happen later and apparently it came up better than anyone
thought yeah so it's got a significant place in the evolution of footy other sports
cheffield cricket cheffield shield kept playing through the Olympics the last day of the Olympics
stop for no closing ceremony victoria were playing Queensland at the junction oval Neil Harvey made a
turn oh great detail Melbourne Cup now this is interesting Jared hmm the Melbourne Cup it was
reported in January 56 that the Melbourne Cup was going to change their the Melbourne Cup kind of
was going to change its whole schedule for the Olympics so what they're going to do is they're
still going to have the spring the the Flemington Melbourne Cup carnival in its traditional time slot
but instead they're going to move the Melbourne Cup from the Tuesday and move it to two Saturday's
time on the 17th of November to act as a great entry point for the whole world has come to Melbourne
for the Olympics they'll get there for their weekend before the Olympics starts and they can
come and experience the Melbourne Cup what a great idea great idea but it didn't happen
oh it didn't they didn't know in 56 Melbourne Cup is to be run at Flemington on Saturday
November 17 as the highlight of the VRC's Olympic year meeting the traditional Melbourne Cup
holiday with this year falls on Tuesday November 6 will be retained and a race meeting staged
but they next yeah what a great idea they ended up having some special games themed meetings later on
but but they did consider it I feel I feel it's a missed opportunity not to have the Melbourne Cup
on the eve of the game it would be a good precedent to have yeah all right so that's what happened
in 1956 and the AFL has been invited to participate at the 19th at the 2032 Brisbane games is there
there's a desire to display what our sporting culture is and Aussie rules and rugby league are to
be a part of that the answer for the NRL is much easier it seems like Suncorp's not going to be
an Olympic stadium and Peter Vlandings has floated origin brilliant makes sense what does so we're
in season here what does the AFL do to participate in the Olympics it's a hard one and as with everything
broadcast rights might dictate it let's for arguments sake let's say that seven had the free to
broadcast rights for 40 and seven had the free to air Olympic rights it may be that there is a push
to maybe shut down 40 as much as possible during the Olympics because why have them cannibalise
each other so what we actually what we do know is nine's got nine's got the reasons yeah okay so
there we go so there we go so there is there is an opportunity there that 40 may continue but what
does that look like the now opening of the news I've got to float this one too opening of the
new stadium so stadium Australia in Sydney opened in 99 ahead of the Olympics could we open the
2032 season by opening the Olympic stadium with gather round at the new Olympic stadium and well
ahead of the games that might be something the AFL could look at but then the game alongside the
Olympics what where would you play it and what would you do the gab is going to be the venue for
cricket and the Olympic stadium as we've just learned from history will not be appropriate
to stage now a game in the way that it's configured so if you're going to make a pop you need to
be in Brisbane but there won't be a stadium for it and it's not quite the same if it's on the
Gold Coast is even though it's in the same state something in the Gold Coast ahead of the week ahead
you could I mean depending on when cricket is played could you play a game at the Gava the weekend
ahead of the Olympics and then do a can have a drop in pitch it's going to be difficult if you
staged it right and we got the right representative game imagine how powerful it could be as part
of a games if you get it wrong you could end up with the greatest sporting fast in history
as our man the other the other thing I say is if I'm an AFL player in 2032 I want to go to the
Olympics so I think part of you would be saying you can we can we have a buy can we can we just
shut down the season for a week you get to play in this representative game and be out the final
of the hundred meters it seems like a good train off at great research thank you next week
VFA on TV oh okay that is so timely VFA on TV you can participate weightly at scn.com.au Shannon
Gills know your history monster energy everybody knows weight monster zero ultra that's the OG
it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing but ultra is a whole lineup now you've
got strawberry dreams blue Hawaiian sunrise in vice guava and they all bring the monster energy
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and every single one is zero sugar tap the banner to learn more president Barack Obama
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