Freedom God Provides

0:00Good morning and welcome. We are continuing our conversations about freedom and the story of the Exodus. Our founding father said, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all people are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain and alienable rights, such as life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And so the idea of freedom, which the founding fathers of the country believed was a God-given right to be free, and that freedom meant the freedom to pursue life, the freedom to pursue meaning and purpose and fulfillment. And so freedom becomes a big concept when it comes to our sense of well-being, of how we're made, of who we are. And the message of the biblical story is that God intends to help us be free. Whatever religion has begun to look like through the centuries,

1:02whatever trappings have become the imagery of enslaving us or trapping us, our holding us back, our limiting our ability to enjoy life, that is not the message of the biblical story. The message of the biblical story is much more oriented towards the reality that life has a way of taking from you, of binding you up, of making you feel less joyful, of tying you up and knots. And God intends to free us, to allow us to not be bound by addictions or desires that are destructive to our life and big picture things, not instant gratification, but long-term fulfillment and purpose. And so one of the things that becomes a a topic worthy of conversation is the reality that God works in roundabout ways. So we can make it all sound really great, but we all know whether

2:05you're a person of faith or not. Sometimes life doesn't make sense. And when you're a person of faith and you believe that God is leading and God is doing good things and God intends freedom, and in all things he works for the good, for those that love him and are called according to his purposes, then it's hard to explain sometimes. And I don't know that there's anything personally more confusing to me or more frustrating than the fact that God does work in roundabout ways, that he seems to be frequently up to things that I don't understand, that in my own life and my own journey I found that I've had a front row seat to God's leading and roundabout ways. I've had some really good ideas and really good plans, and it seems like God didn't fit into those plans, was willing to do things my way, somehow he had another plan. And he's led in roundabout ways, meaning I had a really hard time, have had seasons of life, frequently seasons of life, when what was happening made no sense. But looking back, I can say he's

3:10been faithful and that he's been working for the good, but boy, there are certainly times when I have a tough time seeing it. And a lot of times when I don't like it and as a person who isn't a apologist for God, sometimes have a really hard time explaining his ways or trying to make sense of them to other people. In the Exodus story there's this interesting verse, Exodus 13, 18. So God led them in a roundabout way through the wilderness towards the Red Sea. Thus the Israelites left Egypt like an army ready for battle, on a wild verse. What it suggests is that here were these people who had been under the dominion of slave drivers and guards and now they're free. They don't have much structure, they don't have much organization. We know that there was some elder group because that's who has spoken to Pharaoh and met with Moses. So there's some

4:10organization of some kind. But can you imagine to take this number of people and organize them into a logistical process that allows them to march their way out of Egypt and onto a wilderness journey. No committees, no meetings, no plans. For most of us it takes days to figure out how to do the smallest things in our homes and families. And so somehow God led them in roundabout ways through the wilderness. And in that process there was purpose because they became organized that in the round about ways and those roundabout days and the meandering and the days that it didn't make much sense, they got organized in a way that they left Egypt like an army ready for battle. So those purpose and all of it. I think that and this won't make any sense, it won't make any sense logically but I

5:12think it makes sense emotionally. My hope is very intimately connected to my own logic. If I can see a way forward, if I can logically see how God is going to work things out in my life and in my story, then I have more hope and more peace. When I can't logically see what God is doing or why, then my hope takes a major hit. Then I get overwhelmed and sad. I think what that means is what I would like to have is a rational faith. A rational faith. I'd like to have a logical faith and I'm pretty sure that's an oxymoron. I'm pretty sure when things don't make sense, that's when I need faith. If they make sense, then I don't necessarily need faith. I just need logic, I need just rational thinking. It reminds me of the passage in Isaiah 55, for my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways, my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than yours and my thoughts than your thoughts. Maybe somebody out there this

6:17morning, you need to hear this. There are certainly times in which God really desires to lead us in a way that makes no sense to us, but we trust him anyway. We walk by faith. We recognize there are round about ways. I know there are times in my life where I want God to explain it all to me and have it make sense to me and give me the right understanding and the right phone calls and the right, you know, I want a logical, rational faith. But I don't think that's how God works. Solomon writes in Proverbs 3, Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, submit to him and he'll make your path straight. So that's the lesson. The lesson that's being taught over and over in the story of the Exodus. And today we're talking about God persists, that God sticks with it even when we don't stick with it. So Moses and Aaron go to Pharaoh and they say,

7:23listen, this is what we want you to do. We want you to let our people go. We're going to go three days journey into the wilderness. We're going to sacrifice to our God and then we'll come back. And so Pharaoh says, I think that's not a good idea. That would not be a good plan. You take away all of my work, all my labor. I don't like it. The answer is no. And so Moses and Aaron leave the presence of Pharaoh. And Pharaoh turns to his officials and says, Hey, these people have too much time on their hands. If they didn't have so much free time, they wouldn't get at these ideas in their head. So this is what we're going to do. No longer will you supply the straw that allows them to make the bricks that they're making, but we will not lower the quota. We will require the same amount of bricks to be made every day, but from now on, they'll have to gather their own straw. And so that's what they put into effect. The leaders, the overseers come and they say to the people, you're going to have to make the same number of bricks, but we're no longer supplying the straw and the people scatter. And they've been scavenger around for whatever they can find to make the bricks. You know,

8:26the straw is used to hold the bricks together. We still make concrete the same way. We put reinforcing inside so that it'll hold together. But of course, they can't possibly find enough of the straw that they need and continue to make. And so they are being beaten by their overseers. And they come to Moses and they say, What have you done? Why did you cause this? In fact, they appeal straight to Pharaoh. And they say, What's going on? We've been such good servants. And now this is what you do to us. And he says, Hey, you know, Moses and Aaron came and demanded that you get to go out into the wilderness. And so they turn against Moses and they say to him, Hey, what were you doing to us? You've made us a stench in the nostrils of Pharaoh. And so this whole process comes in. And Moses goes back to God and says, What are you doing? There's not what we signed up for. This is not what we're supposed to be about. Give us a break. Why would you say such a thing? Why would you do such a thing? We're supposed to be setting them

9:30free, not making it worse. And God begins to speak very gently to Moses. And he says, Listen, I'm going to tell you what to tell them. There are roundabout ways going on. I'm here. I'm going to break the yoke of the Egyptians. I'm going to free you from being slaves. Just is to step back a little bit. It's all going to be okay. And so Moses then gathers the people. And he's going to share with them the news. What God has told them, how God is going to encourage them. I'm not going to tell you exactly what happens yet because we're coming up on a break. But I'm going to tell you, it doesn't go all that well. And we're a lot like those Israelites. Doesn't matter what God's big picture is. The fact is today, it's not going well. And that shades everything. We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back. You're listening to healing conversations on K-ABC 790.

10:32I'm Dave Roberts. We're talking about this crazy story. So Moses and Aaron tell Pharaoh, let my people go. Pharaoh says, you got too much ham on your hands. Doubles down, makes the work harder, makes it impossible for them to meet the quota. They're being beaten and abused because they can't keep up. They come back to Moses and they say, why don't you leave us alone? We'd rather be here making bricks and having an easier time of our slavery than be free. And Moses goes to God and says, what in the world are you doing? This is not how it was supposed to go. I was supposed to come in and tell Pharaoh, you supposed to let people go. This was supposed to be a message of freedom. This some good was supposed to happen. And now it's worse. And God slows them down and just said, hey, it's going to take some time. It's going to take a little more than one opportunity to break the yoke of slavery. And so Moses goes back and he tells the Israelites all the things that God told him, hey, don't worry about it. God's seen your suffering. He's going to bring down judgment

11:35on the Egyptians. He's going to set you free. He's going to take you to a place of the promised land that he promised to your fathers. And listen to this verse in chapter 6 verse 9. Moses reported all of this to the Israelites, but they did not listen to him because of their discouragement and harsh labor. That's so telling and so true. This story matters. And it matters because the people in the story have something to teach us. We all understand the revelatory nature of God. We've talked about it on this show before that the revelation of God begins in this process of his names early in the Old Testament. And then we we shift gears into the patriarchs. And we start to see how God is interacting. Of course, we see how God interacts with Adam and even with Noah and the tower of Babel, we're getting messages about who God really is. And now the patriarchs through the

12:40captivity in Egypt, the Exodus, there's going to be the law that's coming, the judges, the prophets, the kings in all of these places. And then finally, in the arc of the narrative, we come to Christ, Christ, who is God, tabernacle in human flesh, and we're told in the New Testament is the full revelation of God. But the narrative in which Jesus enters is this reality of the story that's unfolding here. In fact, biblical theologians would say that there's two great redemptive stories that these two great redemptive stories, one in the Old Testament, one in the New, are the pillars upon which all biblical theology hangs. So imagine a bridge and two massive pillars holding up a suspension bridge. In the Old Testament, that would be the redemptive story of the Exodus. And in the New Testament, it would be the story of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. These two great stories of deliverance upon which all of this story hangs. And so this story matters to you

13:44and me. It is a part of the revelation. It is a part of the story of how God works. It's a part of the story of what he wants you and I to see in our lives. Most of us have lived, and I'm guessing that a fair number of us are living today in days where we can't see God's big picture. We don't really get it. And because we become discouraged and lonely, we have a hard time just connecting. That's what's happening to the people of Israel. That their response to life and circumstances, it's the human response. But you have to remember the deeper truths of the story. That's why we look at these Old Testament stories. It doesn't end with the moments of reversal and discouragement. There's going to be more reversals and more discouragement to come. There's still some harder roundabout things to get through. But God is going to see their children of Israel all the way through to freedom. Complete freedom. A trip to the promised land. You'll know the truth and

14:49the truth will set you free. Those whom the Son of Set Free are free indeed. In the meantime, God is leading in roundabout ways. And by the way, if you just take the arc of the narrative of Scripture, because those of us who are walking around today know this. One of the hardest things to ever overcome is when someone we love passes away or when we're facing our own death. And the message of Scripture is that remember that death is finally deliverance. That death is deliverance from these broken bodies and these fragile emotions and the fickle relationships that bring great joy to life but also bring pain. And so deliverance is not confined to just our current circumstances. And that is the story that is unfolding in the Exodus. So as God leads in roundabout ways, as hope and logic compete for our attention, here's a little breath prayer and some things to think about based on this little part of the

15:51story of Exodus. Number one, God sees the big picture. In the story, God sees what's happening. And he's not interested in better working positions and conditions for the slaves. He's he's interested in getting them free. He's working on a bigger goal. These people want comfort more than they want freedom. I'm convinced if God had left it up to the children of Israel, they would have gladly stayed enslaved instead of risking the pain of real change. And that's important. Most of us do not leave the things that enslave us by choice. We leave the things that enslave us because somehow finally the pain of being enslaved becomes greater than the pain of implementing change. And that's what's going on in Egypt. That's what's going on in our lives. And sometimes we need to breathe a prayer in the current circumstances of our life and say, you know what? God sees the big picture. God sees things I can't see.

16:56Someday, God's going to set me free because that's what he does. That's who he is. And we trust in that. We believe in that. God sees the big picture. Number two, God is busy setting us free. God at this moment in the story of Israel is setting them free. They can't see it. They can't feel it right now. It's getting worse before it gets better. But his greater purpose is to see that all of his children are truly free. That he is constantly working to set us free. Free from our own worries and fears and from the sicknesses and fragility of our physical bodies, from the financial strain of being alive. God desires to free us. And the circumstances support the idea that sometimes in our lives, God doesn't see us or he doesn't care about us or that he can't help. Maybe you're in circumstances like that right now. And that's what you feel.

17:58God doesn't care. Or he doesn't see me. Or he's decided that he can't help or he won't help. That's a lot of how atheists think and agnostic think. But right in the middle of the chaos, there is a God who is loving, busy. And that's the part of the narrative. You have to trust it for your own set of organs. But in the narrative, we know how it turns out. We know that God is busy setting them free in their minds and their hearts and their emotions. They're they're angry. But God's busy setting them free. All of us. Well, one day finally, be free free from sickness, death. The revelation says one day, there'll be no more sadness. There'll be no more tears. There'll no be death. No more sickness. We're all on the path to being set free. Number three, God knows that there's trouble in between between where we are today. And where God is taking us. There is trouble. These relics are experiencing this firsthand where they are today versus where they're going to be

19:00things are going to get harder. There are heavy hearts. There are days of hard labor. There are injustices. There are attitudes to overcome. There's division in the ranks. There's politics. There's hatred. There's backstional things. There's cultural wars. There's rising anger at leadership. That's just going on in the story of the Israelites. And it's so true for us too. Some of us, might want to remember what Jesus tells the disciples in John 1633 in this world you will have trouble. But be of good cheer if overcome the world. I've told you these things. This is the first of that verse. I've told you these things though. They didn't mean you may have peace in this world. You'll have trouble. Some of us need to breathe that prayer that God is busy setting me free. But there's going to be some trouble between here and there. And then there's one more thought to share as we come up against break. But it's this. Those Israelites were just too discouraged to hear.

20:04They didn't listen because they were discouraged because life was so hard right now. And I bet there are some of you listening today that know exactly what that means. That you're so discouraged and the circumstances are so hard that it is really hard to hear any kind of encouragement. But God leads in round about ways. His ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And so we can live hopelessly or we can live faithfully trusting in something bigger than ourselves, something we can't understand. Trust in the Lord of all of our hearts. Lean not on our own understanding and all our ways acknowledge him and let him direct our paths. We're going to unpack this right after this break. Welcome back here listening to healing conversations on K-ABC 7, 9-A of Dave Roberts. I'm welcoming into the studio Eric McLean and welcome Eric. Hey Dave. How you doing? Pretty good. This is a pretty good time of year. Yeah. Football

21:07is starting. Yeah. I do love that. Schools back in session. Yeah. With your life back. Well, you know, my family does well with rhythms. Yeah. And school gives you a natural daily rhythm. Yeah. Where summer is a little bit more chaos. Yeah. And we're only a month away from baseball playoffs. So there you go. Everything's ramping up. And so you know, we've talked about it. You don't really have a pro team. As far as football, you really are a USC fan. Is that is that right? Yeah. I mean, you don't see that. I mean, my dad went to USC and then when I was young, my dad worked for prime ticket at the time, which became Fox Sports West. And he produced USC football games. So I would hang out with him in the track of the games and go on the field before the games. And it's kind of hard not to become a diehard fan. Of course. Yeah. Elementary school kid running around seeing the players. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, I don't really have an NFL

22:09team because I grew up in the era where there was no NFL team here. Yeah. Missed them all. I don't know all of that. So I was a USC guy. We had season tickets for 31 years. I think we're both just like we do just enjoy sports and generally speaking. And so this is a good time of the year. A lot of good things going on. I enjoy sports except for the Dodgers. Yeah. My emotions twist and turn with the fate of the Dodgers. Yeah. You have a Dodger situation in the way I have a cowboy situation except except I've won. Spoiled. You're spoiled. You know, back to back world series. Spoiled now. Spoiled now. Yeah. You were spoiled for a while with the cowboys. Yeah, 30 years ago. Yeah. I can hardly remember it. But yes. Well, good. So as you think about this, uh, God's persistence that he stays with us keeps chipping away at whatever is going on. Yeah. And the roundabout. I mean, I mean, what what stood out to you as you were listening? Yeah. I mean,

23:13clear as mud, right? Now I know. Now I know how God works. I feel good about it. Um, I ever since I had this thought a couple years ago, I just sometimes read stories like this. And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of it because at some point we might get to heaven and meet thousands of Israelites who died in slavery before Moses came. Right. You know what I mean? And so on the macro level, maybe I'm not meant for God to come save me within my time here. Yeah. Uh, you know what I'm saying? Uh, well, I don't know that you can take a macro story like that and be like, therefore God will save me in this lifetime through everything. Yeah. Well, except I think that there is the specific promise that, you know, yes, in the macro of this story,

24:14a lot of things have a lot of people have been born and lived and died in slavery. We don't know popularly, some people say the slavery, the period of slavery is 400 years. There's a verse in the New Testament that says from Abraham to the Exodus was 400 years, which would then make the actual slavery much less, but much less would be 100 plus years. So still generations of people that lived and died, but there's also a micro story. And as this story gets into the whole of Scripture and we get into the New Testament and we see, you know, God tabernacle and human flesh in the form of Jesus, he doesn't deliver Israel in the macro. Rome isn't overthrown. Right. But he does take care of this person and this person and this person and this person. And so the promise is that no matter what is happening in the macro and this is liberating in and of itself, you know, we have a lot of religion now and activists who are saying, you know, we've got to become more

25:17socialist. We've got to lean this way or that way. We've got to get more conservative. And some of us, our whole sense of well-being is tied up in which party is in power and where the whole tone is going. And that's on both sides. I mean, you know, liberals are we got to get rid of the conservative bit. That's what's ruining everything. We got to move towards socialism. It's this capitalism that's evil. And the conservatives are saying it's this move to socialism. It's liberals. It's the loss of morality and ethics. But I think the big picture of Scripture is it's not really about the macro. The macro is going to do its thing and come and go and ultimately God's going to use what's intended for evil for good because he's a father who loves his children and he wants to always be active in that. But in the midst of the macro, every one of our lives matters to God. Every one of our circumstances matters. And I think that's the promise. So yeah, a lot of people did live and die and the macro didn't get better. But the micro, those are not the stories we have. But as a pastor,

26:22I have learned this. People go through unbelievable difficulty in their life. And I'll check in with them and they'll tell me what God has done and what's happening to them and how they're doing emotionally. And I am amazed at what God is able to do in the midst of incredible. In fact, it seems like the more difficult the circumstances, the more they are experiencing God's presence and help and strength. So, I don't know. Is that make more sense? Yeah, it does. I think I just, you know, faith and religion and everything, it can become so insular and so self-focused. Yeah. You start applying all these stories like the good outcomes of the stories. Yeah. So what's going to happen to me individually? Sure. But then you take a step back and you go, I can't help but think that like there's going to be thousands of atrocities committed today over the world. Thousands. And people wanting freedom

27:28from that, wanting God to help them. Right? Sure. So I feel kind of dumb asking God to deliver me in a parting of the Red Sea way from my things going on in life when those things are happening other places. Sure. You know, I mean, I don't feel like it's, but you can only live your life. And I think having an awareness of that is very important. That's what compassion is. And that's what perspective and maturity is. Yeah, I'm very upset about this. I always think about this. You know, the people that are really upset because, you know, their headlight windshield wipers on their Mercedes are broken. You know, we are like that. You know, I just have to, I'm dealing with my insurance company and they're making me take pictures of the shrubbery around my house. And I'm unlike the fourth iteration of getting them all trimmed and they're going, no, little more, it's just kind of insane. And I just complain about it. You know, and then I think, well, how silly

28:28is this? I mean, I've got a house and I've got shrubbery and, you know, I have the technology and whatever it is. But we do get lost in our own discouragement sometimes. And there is a bigger world where things really are deeply broken and people are suffering atrocities and difficulties. But I think that's where you go. I know God cares about them too. And I'm going to, you know, pray for them and lift them up and ask God to intervene in ways that I can't see or understand. Because I believe that's true too. But yeah, but I don't know that that's a spiritual question. As much as it is a question of maturity, can I keep perspective of going, yeah, I probably don't need to be as upset. This is probably on the grand scale. If we just put a global scale to it, I'm at a two. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm treating it like an eight. I think it becomes a spiritual question though because it makes me wonder and consider like how God is working and what God is doing. I would rather just him go help someone else. You know what I mean? Like, okay, I don't need,

29:33I don't need my see parted as much as another person. Sure. And it makes me not want to ask or you know. So, so Jesus said, so when you pray, pray this way, you know, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it isn't heaven. Do that for me and do that for them. It's not a specific make my life easier because I deserve it and you know, they need it more than me. It's like, well, you have a will for me, for my story, for my family, you know, for my daughter, for my future, my parents, my grandparents, you have a you have a will in a way for that. And you have a will in a way and it's different, you know, they might need actual, you know, food or they're going to starve. And you might need, you know, to make a payment on your cell phone, you know, but it's easy to pray the same prayer over all of it because that's the ultimate

30:35that God is a loving father who's going to intercede and intervene and help and support yeah, wherever it is. I think, I think, you know, when Jesus teaches us to pray, it's an unselfish prayer. It is and it's not just for us as an individual. There's a piece of it. It is about us as an individual, but there's also pieces about it that are about fix the world. Please fix the world. Fix it all. Don't just fix one thing. Don't just fix me. Yeah. You know, fix the whole big picture because I think that's a part of it and the perspective and I think we forget that. We're going to continue this conversation right after this break. Welcome back. You're listening to healing conversations with Dave Robertson, Eric McClinnahan. We're talking about God's persistence and his roundabout ways. What else stood out to you, Eric? I wanted to take on this. I heard a comedian say this. That's always a good way to start a promise, right? I heard a comedian say this.

31:35Nobody was Pete Holmes who often does a lot of stuff on theology and God and he was basically saying of course we can't see God here. Of course we don't know what God is doing in the same way that Harry Potter doesn't know who JK Rowling is. Yeah. That it's somebody outside of us writing the story, but in the same way, Harry Potter is JK Rowling. Yes. The part of her, it's a part of who she is and it would be ridiculous for them to run around Hogwarts looking for JK Rowling. Does that ring true to you? The CS Lewis talked about Hamlet never knew Shakespeare. That this situation with God in our story, that he just never, the only way Hamlet could ever know Shakespeare is if Shakespeare writes himself into the story. Lewis's point was, and so God writes

32:36himself into the story. There's another story, another novel that was written with the same premise and the author does write herself into the story. Her character is so sympathetic and needs help. So she writes herself into the story to be the spouse that helps fix the things that are broken and what a powerful illustration that becomes of God writing himself into this biblical narrative. I think it's fascinating to think about because we do think about God as being a part of the story for us to go discover, but we can only discover God because he writes himself into the story in the same way that that would be true. I think that's brilliant. I don't know. I didn't know where Holmes heard it, but yes, it's kind of an old idea. Go put in the comments that he's still from CS Lewis, but CS Lewis certainly does a treatment of that idea. Yeah. I guess it makes me feel, it makes me go then like, what is reality? What is this? It makes me feel existential. It makes me,

33:46it makes me go, am I just a pawn in the story? You know what I mean? Like, what are we? What are we doing? That is a very specific personality type. Yeah. That goes there. And like we could talk about that because I share some of those feelings, not all of them, but some of them. Sometimes I think, okay, so there's earth and then there's space and there's the universe and then what? It's hard for me to try to get a grasp on, well, is that all there is? But is that it? Is that all the reality there can be? And I don't know the answer, but as a kid, that really bothered me. I think I'm old now and it doesn't bother me as much. But I do think, you know, it is a mystery. Life is a mystery that we exist and have the ability to even have a conversation like this and that we so desire to make sense out of life, not just that we understand it, but that it has meaning and it has purpose. And we feel accomplished and we feel like it matters,

34:53that our life matters, that our words matter, that our thoughts matter, that we're not just utilitarian. Yeah. You know, I think the greatest relationships are the ones where people who share relationship value the person, not just the utility. Right. And I'm sure there's a lot of people listening, they would go, yeah, I'm in a marriage where I feel utilitarian. You know, my spouse is as happy as I am useful. And when I'm not useful, they're not happy. So I have to be useful all the time. You know, I'm not sure I even know who I am anymore because I've become nothing more than the person who does, you know, go to work every day and make the money and pay the bills and do this and do that. So that's an inherent thing in human beings. I want to matter. I want to have significance, not just utilitarian. I want to be useful, certainly. But I also think there's more to me than that. Right. So I feel like, you know how in a lot of video games, especially sports video games,

35:57you can go on and like create your player. Right. And early on in video games like 20 years ago, you created like their height and their weight and their position and they're like, go play. And now you can set like zero to a hundred how well they do in clutch situations. Like what is their baseball IQ level and like every tiny little detail, right? Yeah. And I feel like when God created me, he set my like beliefs and things very easily level to like three out of a, yeah. You know what I mean? And it's just annoying. And it's especially annoying working at a church and being around people who's, uh, were clearly created like in the 90s. Yeah. Not in the 90s, but in the 90% tile of belief things. Very easily. Yeah. Um, because at a certain, oh, I mean, I think it's very true. Faith is

36:59literally just believing in what we don't actually write, no, or it's concrete. And it just would be almost like blissful to not question. Like I look at this and God sees the big pictures. Your first point. Yeah. My first reaction is not to go. Yeah. He does. Yeah. My first reaction is to go, well, or like my, my reaction is or we look back and we connect dots and call it God, right? Like that's, like I'm not trying to do that. My brain just does that. And that gets annoying. Yeah. But I think, you know, then you also read first Corinthians 12 that says, God's arranged the parts of the body just as he wanted them to be. And not everyone can be the hand and not everyone can be the eye. You know, you got to have a foot and you got to have. And so what I think is, you know, you're, you come to heal. I'm the heal. Yeah. You come at things very rationally. And I think there's a strong place for that. If

38:06everybody in the church was just, they believed easily. And they didn't, I mean, that's why you're here on this segment is you ask hard questions that that people out there are asking that they, they come from that perspective. And yet here we are. You know, here you are. You serve in a place and you choose faith and you choose to believe even though that's a constant process for you. It's not easy. And I think, you know, I've talked about this before, but my mom, you know, she had that first naivete of faith where you God said it. I believe it. That settles it. And that's a gift. I envy her. You know, she didn't question a lot. She just trusted. And it served her very well in her journey. And, you know, she was a great person and a great mom. And, um, but I, I'm not wired quite like that. I'm probably wired more like that than you are. But I do struggle. And I do question. And I also think, I think that's why people come to

39:12Montrose church because they want to grapple with some of this. They would, they don't want everything to be spoon fed simple, you know, just trust God and everything will be okay. They want to get down into the conversation. And so I think that's positive. I think, you know, when we talk about this, God's persistence, I think that's the other piece of this that really needs to be highlighted. Even when we're faithless, still he's faithful. And this story, you know, the children of Israel are discouraged or mad that they'd like for Moses and Aaron to leave them alone. You know, they don't see God coming through Moses and Aaron and rescuing them. And by the way, it's not going to get better. They are going to get released and they're going to, you know, flee from Egypt and have freedom. And then they're going to be mad about that because now they don't know where their food and water is going to come from. And, you know, they're going to get trapped at the Red Sea. And, you know, Moses just, but God just brought us out here to kill us and it's going to go on for 40 years. For 40 years are going to win. I mean, they make it to the promised land in a year.

40:16But they're too afraid to go in because they don't think God's going to take care of them. So they just wander around until that generation dies. And so, you know, that's a part of the story. And it's a part of our nature. We struggle to believe. But God stays with it. He doesn't give up on him. He doesn't quit. He doesn't get mad and, you know, throw in the towel and say, all right, then, you know, he continues to be persistent. So I think that's the big message. As you ask questions and, you know, you use your 3% probability of believing or ease of belief. You've got to use the belief. God sticks with it. He stays with you. He doesn't kick you out, you know, and I think that's true across the board. So, hey, if you're listening this morning, maybe just an opportunity to say, hey, God sees the big picture and he's busy setting me free. Setting me free from whatever has got me wrapped up and troubled today. And I know that between where I am today and that freedom, there's going to be some trouble. But I'm going to trust anyway, even though

41:21about not be logical, I'm going to believe that God's in it for my good, that in all things, He's working for my good, not everything's good, but in those things, He's working for my good. And that He's going to stick with you on your good days and your bad days on the days when you feel like you have faith on the days when you're just angry on the days when you feel alone. Just know this. God loves you and God's going to stick with you. God bless you. Thank you so much for listening.