FRL 1,207 - Remembering Bobby Douglas + Ranking Series Chaos + NCAA Champ Predictions

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Oh, what's going on, everybody?

Welcome to episode 1200 and 7 of Flow Wrestling Radio Live from Austin, Texas.

Join today by JD Raider, David Bray, and it's a special show.

We're going to have a couple of guests on to discuss the passing of legendary coach,

Brownbreaker, Bobby Douglas, who passed away this week, and a guy who left a huge, huge

impact on the sport, and we have some people that are going to join this show at the top.

We're going to have C on Williams.

He's here right now.

We're going to have Michigan coach Kevin Jackson join this show as well later to discuss

Coach Douglas.

First off, join us from California.

He's at the California State Tournament.

C on Williams.

C on how you doing, buddy?

Very good.

You know, CPNM said I was in my room and a computer, said to wife, I wasn't good enough.

So I had to jump on my cell phone and walk outside of the hotel, and then I got outside, standing

outside right now, and then I realized, you know what?

I'm still in my box, you're short.

I didn't even put shorts on yet since it's six o'clock in the morning here.

Good thing there ain't nobody walking around out here with me, standing out here in my

box, you're short.

You know what?

I like to think that Bobby is probably laughing at that right now.

C on.

And I got to take a seat on it.

It could be worse.

I'm telling you, it could be worse, just from personal experience.

That's true.

I made sure I got my key, though, so at least I can know how to get back in the room.

That's good.

You are several, you're miles ahead of David Bray.

What we'll see on first off condolences, I know Bobby was, you know, much more than the

coach to you.

I guess where to start, just the impact that Bobby had on your life specifically.

Maybe your story.

How you kind of got to Iowa State, I think people know mostly that, but just how he kept

you around the program, you stayed around the program and how that was, had an impact

on you.

Well, you know, everybody knew I wanted to be, well, thought I wanted to be a Hawkeye,

you know, but they say the wind blows you in the direction you need to go.

I was blown to Ames, you know, so I ended up a cyclone.

Not by choice, but by, I guess destiny, you could say, I got there.

I went and walked out for the team.

I thought I was a good wrestler and then I found out I was not a good wrestler.

I was not a decent wrestler.

Heck, I was a terrible wrestler.

But the first year I walked in the room after the first couple of weeks, I remember going

up there and Cody Sanderson, I said, Cody Sanderson will tell the story like the first time

he met me, he's like, you see this guy wearing a full blue, full sweatsuit, jumpsuit,

basic jumpsuit, like, why is this guy out here running the stadium practice in a full

jumpsuit?

I didn't really like shorts and I think I was wearing one of those, like, you know, not

really a running shoes, one of those tracks sneakers.

It seems like it would have to be a short tee now, but not really, I still don't really

have a short much.

So one of the things, yeah, I mean, my boxers outside of a hotel right now, but one of

the things like, you know, I thought I was good and Bobby was like, son, you don't have

the experience, yeah, he cuts me from the team.

I'm like, that's okay.

I just came all the way to Iowa to get cut from the team, I was like, okay, signed up

dropping down a part-time student, established in residency in Iowa, so I could get in

state tuition, working food service and made friends with some of the teams and work

out with the guys.

And I went back the second year, okay, I said, like, you know, I'm good now.

I mean, I mean, I was working out with like Ben Perkins was like, one of the came good

friends, Corey Stevenson, those guys, so they started teaching me stuff.

The next year I went back in, after a couple of weeks, Bobby goes, yes, son, we're going

to cut you.

You're not getting up to the team, I'm like, crap, I got cut again, so I just kept showing

up the practice and Bobby, one day Bobby's like, hey, want to be the manager on the team?

Like, you know, we'll pay you some money, we'll be the manager on the team.

I was like, okay, cool coach.

The next day I show up the practice in 6 a.m. anyway, and coach is like, see, you don't

have to practice, I'm like, I'm good coach.

Next week I show up the practice, like all the time, every day I show up the practice

on time.

So one day Bobby goes, hey, come here, he's like, you're not going to give up bar, you're

like, no coach, he's like, go and I'll see us and get you a gear, you're on the team.

So you know, I ended up being with the team from what, 96 to 2011 through three coaches.

But Bobby is one of those coaches, like I said, he gives you an opportunity, he sees that

you're trying, you get the opportunity.

I mean, I had that first year, I gave him a lot of reasons to cut me.

I had a public in talks.

I think a bunch of coaches, guys got in trouble that year.

I mean, I got a public in talks, a couple of other guys got one guy beat up an elevator,

beat up a student an elevator, another guy, hip toss the police officer by accident, undercover

cops on a couple of guys, different around.

He got a host.

We get it.

So yeah, it was a bad year, it was a bad, it was a bad, it was a bad, like, term there

and like, you know, as the lowest men on the total pool, I'm like, I am definitely getting

a job from the team.

His son called me like the Sunday after I got arrested and I see him, you got arrested

the last night, I was like, how do you know, it's like, my mom saw the paper, she likes

it, she won't tell my dad, I'm like, okay, cool, once went by and then Ortiz came and

pulled me out of practice one day, I was like, see him, did you get arrested a few months

back?

Like, yeah, it was like, you know, at that department, I have people like read the paper

for those, right?

Like, no, you're like, yeah, I think you better hear it, you better hear it, Bobby, you

need to tell Bobby, instead of me telling him, the next day, I'm like, you know,

I don't know if you look at Bobby's face, he has that stare.

Like, first year, I didn't even, I couldn't look the man in the eye the first year.

So the next day, I had to be in the locker room, everybody knew I had to talk to Bobby

about that.

I'm sitting down, the locker room clear out, like, ain't coach, I got something I got

to say is like, I got arrested a couple of months back, he goes, yeah, I know, I read

the paper.

He said, you're a good kid.

Just don't let it happen again.

Like, that's an opportunity there.

I mean, I wasn't a good, I wasn't a good wrestler.

I wasn't much of an asset to the team at the moment.

I could easily have been a sacrificial lamb, somebody kicked off the team, but he gave

me the opportunity.

And then from there on, you know, I think at the end of that season, after taking a whole

year of butt-wooping in the wrestling room, it's like, yeah, I'm done.

And then Bobby pulled me aside, he's like, what are you doing?

You're quitting?

It's like, yeah, I think I'm done.

I'm going to go back to New York City.

It's like, why?

It's like, you know, you'll never be a superstar here.

You'll never be a starter here.

You'll probably never be on the mat in a real-do meet here.

But, you know, you're one of those kids that the world needs.

That's going to do something special in the world of wrestling.

You know, you're not meant to be a superstar, but you're meant to do other things

to help wrestling.

And then, you know, that kind of motivated me to stick around.

I took another four years of butt-wooping, being, I always tell people, Ben Schwarmer,

the guy that threw out there, when the starters come off the mat to like, you know,

roll around and make sure they have dry spots to go back out there.

But it's, he built, Bobby actually built more of a family in that room, you know.

He never put anybody down.

You know, you all say, my name, I was bad at names.

Ha!

Bobby was the worst with names.

Ha!

Yeah.

There's an example where, like, literally, I think, uh, Woodley Malored, like, his name

is Woodley.

We called him Willie for, like, the first six months because Bobby called him Willie the

first day and the guy answered to Willie for six months.

Or Bobby's, there's this one day I was looking at the rust and like, who's, who's, who's

Woodley?

He goes, me.

He's like, I don't even know what's Willie.

Well, everybody called me Willie and I just answered to Willie, like, okay.

Or Bobby's the worst, he was, like, just terrible names or even, like, there was four

percent living in the house.

And like, Bobby had a habit, like, I have to practice to call guys and like, hey, uh, what

do you all think of today's practice?

And then one day he called, he talked to Dwight Hansen, like, okay, cool, hang out the phone,

call right back.

And then he'll talk to Zach Thompson, hang out the phone, and he called after the third

couple of days, like, man, hey, who else lived in that house?

Like, I think the man, like, he dialed the number, same number three times before he noticed

he was calling the same number.

That's funny.

Yeah.

He was like, I, he was, he cared, he generally cared about his athletes, you know, um, he

was about winning, but he was all more about forming young men that could do good things

in the world.

And that's what the world lost is a coach that cared about his athletes, cared about the

sports.

Um, he's done so much for the sport that the world don't even know or he, he is, I always

felt it.

And not just me, I think a lot of the guys always felt, he just never got the recognition.

He deserved as a coach and, you know, it's, it's a sad thing that, you know, there's

no real documentary on the Bobby Douglas story.

I know we tried to do one with Vader a couple of years back, but you know, Kobe kind of disrupted

that.

So it's a chance we, it's an opportunity we miss to have him sit out and talk to the world

and tell his story.

Um, it's, but now we, that story has to be told by all the athletes that he infected on

and off the mat throughout his life.

And, uh, he did a big thing for me, like, uh, in 2000, when I was about done with school

2000, 2001, my younger brother in New York City was getting in trouble, failed every class

is freshman year of high school, except for Jim.

Jim, I don't think freshman year of high school is that bad.

My mom is like, she sent them to Jamaica to go live with some family members and get

them back on track.

I was like, yeah, my brother's an idiot.

You send them to Jamaica.

He's going to get killed.

He's going to be in the wrong crowd.

He's going to get killed.

I took custody of him and he moved to Iowa and I was like, okay, I have no money.

I'm, I can't leave Iowa now.

I got to stick around and then Bobby was like, well, what are you going to do?

I got to find the job.

He goes, well, let me, he's like, let me look at the budget.

So he, like, he put $15,000 in the budget and that was my pay, uh, if that was done to

come become the manager, you know, I did things for the team, helped out, whatever was

done with the team and then live with my brother and then live with three other wrestlers.

So it was like 250 for a piece for rent.

So I had enough money for food.

I had enough money for rent.

Take care of my brother and, uh, playing the money to go to the bars every night or not

every night.

You know, back then.

But yeah.

But those don't get enough money to party and live good.

I thought 15,000.

There was a lot of money back then.

Now days, I don't think that pays one month of bills anymore.

But those are the things he did, you know, he, he didn't have to help me.

He didn't have to, you know, like I said, I was not a superstar, but I ended up being

around the program.

Like I said, from 96 to 2010, I was there with Bobby, Kale came on, Kale kept me around.

Uh, K, KJ came on KJ kept me around, you know, and I'm thinking in the state in my

path where I'm at flow, where, you know, I'm still around, even though CP keeps trying

to kick me out the show.

Uh, I'm still around.

Get rid of him.

Greg.

Well, we're glad you're here on the other day.

That's right.

They pay $20.

It's just, it's just to not hear you.

No, um, where do you think you'd be without Coach Douglas?

You know, that's a good question.

Without Coach Douglas, I'll probably just be another bum and going back to New York City.

You know, a lot of the guys I graduated with a high school with, you know, they still

live in the same apartment building, the same neighborhood in the projects that they grew

up in, you know, three doors down in the same apartment, it's where their mother lived

that they live in now, you know.

I think me going to Iowa State, even though by mistake was meant to happen because without

it, I can't, I can't tell you where I think I'd be right now.

I know my brother definitely wouldn't have been in the situation, a good situation because

he would have ended up in Jamaica.

So like a lot of things happen because I ended up with Iowa State and Bobby gave me a chance

and allowed me to help my brother later on in life.

You know, Bobby was a ground breaker for the sport of wrestling.

He was the first black American to wrestle at the Olympic Games.

He shared many anecdotes about, you know, coming up in the sport from Ohio and then went

to West Liberty and West Virginia, Oklahoma State, did he share much about, you know, coming

up in wrestling at the time he did?

You know, Bobby was a black athletes, which was still, you know, back then it was still

a hard thing to black athletes.

So, you know, he faced a lot of challenges and the one thing you always said, you know,

he faced the challenges, but he knew he had a path and he's like, I wasn't going to

give up.

He's like, you know, a lot of coaches gave him reasons to give up.

And I think that's what kind of shaped him to make sure that young people don't give

up because he had to face, I'm going to say the racism and the challenges that was out

there at the time because that's the type of world it was back then.

And, you know, from, I think he told the story at one point like when he was done, Oklahoma

State wasn't going to pace tuition, but he argued with them.

And then they was able to finish, get his, to last year college paid for and get his

degree because it was about never giving up and never accepting no, so to accomplish

the goals that he needed to accomplish.

That's great.

Well, see on it, it's been good having you on.

I thought it was very fitting that you would be on the show, of course, KJ going to be

coming on very soon after, but anything else before we, before we let you go put some

pants on.

Yeah, you know, I'm working on some things here, you know, about like trying to get

some pins or some lapels or something to put on, get to all the coaches or NCAA so

that we could wear something to honor them at NCAA.

So working on some things there, so I'll have something available like for people who

interested, like some pins for all the coaches and all the staff members at NCAA's that

I'm going to be there to make sure we're honoring Bobby at the biggest weekend of the college

season.

Yeah, I hope that happens.

Maybe Fanny Pax.

He was famous for the.

And I lost your volume again, C.P.

Oh, no.

You lost.

All right.

I'm going to put some pants on.

I don't know why.

All right.

But right at the buzzer.

I was going to ask him something.

You know, Bobby carried the Fanny Pax and it was always like a lower, what was in the

Fanny?

You were around him a little bit.

Yeah.

So C.On mentioned him Dwight Henson.

That was my club coach growing up.

He was teammates.

I was C.On at Iowa State and especially after he retired from from coach and every now

and then he'd pop in to the Central High Wrestling Club and run a practice, real, real

old school.

Yeah.

You know, at this point, he was not the most mobile.

So he wasn't getting down and showing any technique.

But he was a big point with the foot guy like, all right, now put your hand here, and

everything was a tackle.

It was a double leg tackle, like not a shot, not a takedown, just tackle.

Come in and his, his coonskin hat and his ugly boots and his Fanny, he was an ugly

boots guy, but before they were like, before they were cool, he'd have to go that hard

on him.

He would get fits off.

Awesome.

Okay.

We'll K.J.O be on, I think at the probably the next 10 minutes, but to fill some time,

do we want to talk ranking series in C.A.

Well, where do you think we should go?

Let's talk ranking series, because ranking series has been really interesting.

Extremely.

The past of the days, there's a lot to take away.

Let's start with the guys who wrestled yesterday, Spencer, Spencer Lee.

What did you think of his performance?

I thought he looked fantastic.

You know, his semi-final, I thought was the most interesting, because every now and

again, Spencer will just get his doors blown off on a shot and just get, I mean, it doesn't

happen much, but sometimes he's just, I don't know if he's just not ready, nice stance,

but it's, you know, he gets forward by horse layer, you know, immediately and then just

a single leg part-air offense looked fantastic as it usually does, but I thought it looked

especially unstoppable.

I think the biggest, the thing I like the most is attacking both sides.

He was hitting a single consistently, his high-crouch really consistently.

I love that he's got two back-to-back solid tournaments.

I say solid and in level of competition, I think he competed much better than solid.

But you can't be anything but after the World Championship, after the RAF pin, you're

like, what is going on?

It's like, okay, it's still Spencer, and he's still, you know, maybe the best 57 in the

world, he's got to prove it, and I think he's right on the precipice of doing just that

this year.

Yeah, I agree, super-press.

Horse layer did have us in the first half.

When he came off and forwarded him right away, I was like, oh no, it's like, what the heck?

And then Spencer immediately responds with take-down lay-slay-slay-slay-slay-slay, and

it was like, all right, never mind.

His turn is like, obviously he's got the lace, he's got a really good cut, but he just,

the guy's post arm, he can just like chop and roll, I mean, he makes it.

It looks way easier than it should when he's really wrestling.

And horse is a huge 57.

He's tall and strong, quite a bit taller than Spencer.

So you're like, oh man, maybe this guy can actually match Spencer's freak strength and

power and athleticism.

Oh no, he can't.

He had it all.

Yeah, very excited about Spencer.

Moving up.

Vito Urugiao.

What do we think of Vito at 65 kilograms?

I mean, this was not the debut you were probably hoping for.

You know, the way he lost that first match, giving up 18 points, you know, to a guy that

doesn't have the credentials that Vito does, and then, you know, kind of gives up some

points.

He's always going to be able to score, I think, at any level.

I think if you look at him throughout his career, he has been a guy that gives up points,

right?

And that's been a thing that's hurt him in the past.

I was, honestly, when I heard he was moving up, I was pretty, you know, bearish.

I was like, I don't know.

I feel like 61 is still probably his best weight.

And I think he's going to have a hard time making it to two final X.

I mean, he's got to win the US Open.

I think we're really deep at 65, and I know that sounds weird because we haven't placed

very much, but we did last year, and I think that kind of demonstrates, like, there's

a lot of guys that could represent Team USA.

And I think he's got a little bit to go to do that.

I think you can't give up points like that and run a gauntlet.

He's got to keep ties off his legs a little more consistently.

So yeah, I was pretty, you know, he's still great, but to make the team, he's going to

have to be much better than he showed.

This was first time up, and 67 kilos, this is plus two.

So take that for what it's worth, but yeah, I mean, he's not the same as he was at 61.

Yeah.

Obviously, maybe he can figure it out, 65, it's kind of like, okay, I mean, could he

beat Joy McKenna?

Maybe?

You know, and he's only going to have to beat him once, right?

Could he beat Jesse Mendes?

I don't know.

Jesse Bo Bartlett, Bo Bassett, Aiden Valencia, Luke Stanich, there's so many guys.

That's the thing.

It's like, could he beat all of those on his best, like, on a shirt?

But can he run that gauntlet and beat what, three of those guys, just for the opportunity

to make it to real world?

Yeah.

There's names I'm forgetting that I'm sure are going to, you know, emerge and be challenged.

It's going to be tough for him to do it.

You know, this is one thing you do need to remember, and I need to, you know, remind myself,

is like, this is a long-term decision.

This is something with 2028 in mind.

You know, he didn't move up to 65 in 2026, solely like, this is all about winning the

World Championships in 2026.

So I'm acknowledging that that's also the case, but still, you know, reluctant to predict.

I would be interested to know if he would have made this decision to move up several years

before the Olympics if he didn't already have a world title.

You wonder that.

Right?

If he's like, I got my world title now, it's time for Olympics versus I need that, that

world title before I move on to the Olympics.

Yeah, watching that match, the semi-wary lost yesterday, you know, definitely, he seemed

smaller and he seemed like not as fast as he normally is, given up to legs so much.

But the other thing, it, like, just tactically at the end, just seemed like a lapse and

I don't know if that was tactics or just a, you know, mental lapse or whatever.

But the good thing for Vito is he's gone through this transformation before where things

aren't clicking, he's, you know, feels like he's blowing it in some matches and he was

able to, like, do a lot of work on the mental side of things and turn things around.

And so if you are Vito, you have that experience to rely on and go back to him.

So that's where, like, if you're Vito or if you're Cornell, you're probably, like, hey,

let's remember, like, what kind of transformation you had to do back before you won your first

title.

And so that's in there somewhere, you know, it's like, can you get it out of there again?

That's going to be what we'll find out, I think.

Boom forward to today.

I guess it's kind of a Kyle date.

Well, I was going to say both the Kyle's.

It's just been a bad week to be a Kyle.

But Kyle Dake loses, I think, his round of 16 match before coming back for bronze.

What is it?

Is it the move up in weight?

Is it father time catching up with Kyle?

I think he lost the two really good guys.

Many people think Cagia is going to win world this year at 86.

He DNPed last year, lost the tight one to gas and pour, see, he beats gas and pour.

So he DNPs.

I would say, you know, I actually think Kyle didn't look far off in his losses to me.

And if those were the best guys in the world and, like, Dejou of, that's a guy that beat

Trent last year.

He was, I think, world bronze at 92.

Guys, really good.

He just beat, sorry, he's getting a little naming it.

But Dejou of is the guy, he just beat Gamke Khalidzi, who just texts Zaheed.

So they're all in the kind of the same sort of stratum tier because really, when you talk

about Kyle Dake right now, until he makes the team, it's really, you're thinking about

Team USA, okay?

How is he going to get back to Final X against Zaheed?

How is he going to beat Zaheed?

Those are the topics on your mind.

And so right now, you're thinking about Parker, Keck Eisen, and some of the other guys

at 86.

And you're thinking about Zaheed.

Well, Zaheed's not having his best day either, you know, a week ago, he did not look

for two weeks.

He did not look great either.

So I think, I actually thought Dake looked good.

I thought he looked more active.

I thought he looked bigger.

I thought his leg attacks looked really nice.

For him, and, you know, maybe I sound like a broken record and it's like, oh, yeah, easy

to say, work on your, your headhands, but he cannot like guys in on his legs the way

he used to.

And I don't think he's intentionally, he's not like been asking and drawing them into

the legs and then torturing them, but they, Kojit was able to get to that high crotch

really consistently.

And what we're, what you saw there is like, he went to the crackdown kind of thing.

And the way Kojit was able to finish, he finished so tight around the waist, the gut was already

there and he was going.

So people were like, well, why is he getting turned?

He didn't turn down and fight the initial take down and it worked perfectly into Kadyev's,

you know, part-air offense.

So for Dake, I think you take a lot of positives from it, not metal.

I mean, to show him almost blew it at the end there.

He almost, Dake all but got that too.

Who's the right call?

Dake didn't have the two, but he was really close to scoring that.

He beat Saipu Noth, who's really tough.

He beat another solid guy in Repashash.

So I think, yet, Kojit Dake losing twice in a tournament, how many times has that happened?

I don't know.

But I don't think that's ever happened in an international tournament.

I'm not going to ask him, but I would guess it's not happening.

He lost a Gadsie at like 70, 74 kilos when he was first set of.

You're Egan.

Yeah, but I don't think was that finals or like first round, I think Gadsie,

he lost, but yeah, part of that's Repashash too, or maybe he would have.

So I thought, I'm not selling any Kyle Dake stock.

I'm glad he wrestled.

I think he's going to be, he's my pick to make it to Final X right now.

I know Parker's doing what he's doing, but, and I'm impressed by it certainly.

But I think Dake is going to make it to Zaheed and who knows what happens there.

Right.

Now let's talk Kyle Snyder.

Kyle Snyder gets teched in his quarter final today, denying us round five of

Snatchelive, man, I'll tell you what, that's okay, based on the way Sadgelive looks

right now, don't, you don't want, no one wants to wrestle this guy.

Well, he's going to lose now that I've said that, but I think Sadgelive looks

unbelievable right now.

Saddy Cakes is so back, but there was a couple years there where he was

super chest wrap reliant.

He kind of sloppy, just like his body just didn't look.

And now he's looking like 2016, Sadgelive.

He's just carrying people.

He's still hitting the chest wrap.

He's going like firemans, got wrenches, everything.

He's putting points on the board, tech and dudes.

And he looks also what's impressive, super athletic.

Yes.

Like he's floating good.

He's looking nimble.

That's the thing with Kyle, Kyle right now, not that he's ever been super nimble

and everything, but he just looks stiff out there.

Yeah, it looks like his whole game plan is either step in single or just drive

you out of bounds.

Yeah, I mean, he won a world title a year ago, less than a year ago.

And he won some matches like that, but you think about like the, uh, you

shoot a match where yet he showed like some real agility, some scrambling

there and was able to win that match, too.

But yeah, he does have like kind of a set specific mode.

And to be fair, he was up for two in the second period.

And then the win, I forget the guy's name.

Uh, client, right?

Or, yeah, that's right.

Uh, can I have was just able to get to his legs and and just had a hard time

stopping him, especially when, when he got lifted.

So I mean, it wasn't a great, great performance by, by Kyle, by any stretch,

but I would not write, I would not consider this a match that he can't win.

Now, I don't know if his guy, if can I have won his semi or not?

I think that, that's happened at this point, but I don't know what happened

because we've been doing the show.

But hopefully Kyle gets some repushage opportunity to wrestle a little more.

Um, and Kyle's always been a guy who takes losses in, in season.

So, um, he's still, I think a massive favorite to make the team.

And if he makes a team, he's a metal threat.

If Sadja lives there, which seems like he should be there, uh, given ball range,

should not have, uh, restrictions to, to keep him out like, like Croatia did.

I don't think anyone's beaten that guy, but that's okay.

Like he's the greatest of all time, very, very possibly, almost likely, you know,

and who knows, knows how much longer he's going to go too.

Seeing this though, did make me think, wow, Aaron Brooks blew it with this drug test

because I, Olympic version of Aaron Brooks wrestles this version of Kyle Snyder,

give me Aaron Brooks.

I think that's conventional thought.

I don't disagree with it.

I think, um, it's one of those hypotheticals that it's easy to draw that conclusion.

I don't, I don't disagree at all.

I think Aaron can, can definitely contend with, with, uh, with Kyle.

And he would probably be my pick, but now we're not going to see him till really the 28 season.

Right. Right.

So, um, the real question is, does anyone else enter that conversation, right?

Can you can and be can and's interesting, uh, interesting.

You know, I mean, the guy can get the legs.

He's, he's, I think he's going to be big enough.

You know, you wonder about 197s up to 97 kilos.

That's a 16 pound jump, something like that.

That's not insignificant, but, um, you can't look, he looked good sized, but, uh, in the last ranking

series. So I'm not writing them off.

And who knows who else is going to step into that conversation.

Um, but yeah, I mean, we always hypothesize about who can knock out Kyle.

It just doesn't happen.

And that's not just doesn't happen.

But then also 90% time he goes and wins a medal.

Right. So, right.

If you're putting your money on a safe bet, it's probably Kyle Snyder team,

Kyle Snyder medal.

Yes.

So, but interesting.

Fall, uh, heavyweight, just this morning, Mason, Paris, Tex, Wyatt Hendrix,

and in there, it was at the quarter of the semi, the semi semi.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we're not going to have a read on this going in to the open, going into,

I think final X, that'll be the final X matchup as well.

I think both of these guys, we've seen such variance, such, I mean,

there's times where you're like, these guys give up so many points.

Oh my gosh.

And then, you know, you thought after a raft, like, okay, maybe why it's, you know,

Mason took like a year off and he was out of the mix.

And maybe that really set him back.

And then he looked fantastic here.

He looked like the Mason of old.

Why it didn't look bad by any stretch.

He looked good early.

He's still, um, I just think it's really good.

It's, uh, this is a cop out.

I don't say as much, but I think what it is to, it just depends on the day and how

they're feeling like they just seem, but not super consistent competitors, right?

They're both high, high level, but I don't know how you explain Mason's, uh,

raft performance, how you explain why it's world championship performance based on

all the other things we've seen them do.

So it's just too tough guys to get a read on in my opinion.

It's partially also just the way they wrestle is so chaotic.

So, okay, if you're going to create all that chaos in those wrestling positions,

and you're going to win six or seven out of 10 times,

but those three times just happen to be in the same match that day.

It just look can look way worse.

That's, that's the other thing too, JD.

It's like a lot of this is kind of a byproduct of freestyle where things that are

contested and kind of close can look way worse because he's like, well, he got

text, but it's a relatively competitive match.

Just like the Snyder match was competitive and then it got bad right at the end.

In a folk style match, it's like, oh, you got taken down and written out at the end.

In freestyle, it's, it can catastrophize quickly.

Hey, just thinking about freestyle folks on, I don't know, there's not much else

to touch on here so far.

Yeah, I'm trying to think other rankings stuff.

We do have one super chat here freestyle related question.

After we were talking about Vito, we had a super chat from our guy, Joe MC,

6828, not to be confused with the other Joe MCs, and he wants to know what

chances Jesse Mendes has of the Olympics.

So let's just say he makes the team.

How good can this guy do?

It's six if you make the team USA at 65 kilos, you have a very good shot of winning a

medal. If not, maybe even look at what real Woods did.

He lost in our process this year and then won the process.

Obviously, but then brought home a medal now.

And I, okay, 65 is not what it used to be.

You know, eight years ago, but it's still very deep.

So also, it's, you're not a lot.

It's not 97 kilograms where if you make the team, you're bringing home hardware.

So you can, you can go one in one, but you can also bring home a medal.

Yeah, I mean, I think as far as like just overall prospects go, Jesse's,

I mean, he's out there for 65.

When you think talent, right age, right size, pedigree, whatever you want to call it,

like, Jesse is maybe the first, if he, all right, let's put it this way.

If you had to do a draft for 65 Olympic team trials, placements,

who's the first overall pick?

Who's the pick off the board?

Jesse, yeah, you're on Jesse, Jesse.

It's also, let's say in this hypothetical scenario,

real woods, wins, the Olympic trials or whatever.

It's going to feel kind of like a Frank Mollinero or deal.

Maybe that's a little bit dramatic.

Not at this point.

He's literally one of world bronze.

I don't think so.

That's true, but even now, it's almost like if I,

if you just send them to an international tournament right now,

if I don't know, just based on the variance in real performances and outcomes,

I'm like, I would like our chances with Jesse better.

I feel like, yeah, I understand that.

Now, maybe real could go and win it this year and then maybe my opinion changes.

The real question on the, on 65, because, you know, that's 2028 discussion.

If it's the Olympics, well, we can say, yeah, Jesse Mendez,

but Jack Marcus blaze, bobas at Jack's forest, they all have their

eyes set on this way cause I don't think, I don't see Jack's going down to 57.

I think that's assured.

Marcus, same thing.

Marcus already dipped his toe, made the national team at 65.

So you've got to figure if it's not this year, they're very soon going to make

their step up to 65.

And there are guys, I mean, Marcus and Jesse were extremely close at the

world team trials.

That was, Jesse got, I think it was a one take down match.

And Marcus was still in high school at that point in time.

So it would stay in the reason Marcus is going to get better.

So I feel like I'm like, I'm not backtracking on what I'm saying,

because I feel like Jesse's got better since that match as well.

But there's, that's going to get really crowded.

That feels going to be insane.

It's going to be awesome.

And like, I know Brock Hardy was just on the beta show.

He said he's locked in and he's, you know, he had a pretty decent year of

freestyle without having trained much freestyle.

You got, you know, Sergio Vegas, like, shown glimpses.

And you got to imagine he's going to be throwing his hat in the ring.

That's, there's a bunch of good guys that are going to be in that bracket.

So we were the fun.

Absolutely.

I was just thinking, neither of you guys were on the show last time or,

we talked about it after.

But I don't know if you heard, Bray, I had a dumb rule, dumb take idea.

OK, I have this past weekend that I want to get your opinion on.

Let's see just how dumb this is.

If you have one second of writing time, you get your writing time point.

You don't have to earn a minute.

So one second advantage.

It's like, it's like how it is in writeouts.

It's just like, if you're up by one second, yeah, sure.

And if not, if no, explain to me why not?

Because it doesn't really show anything to have one second more

of writing time over the course of seven minute match.

And here's what what made me think of it.

Like I said, I don't know if I'm so long this.

I'm just I want to get I was watching a match.

And I don't even remember what match it was now at this point.

But somebody got to take down in the first and wrote for almost a minute.

But then the opponent escaped.

Then he took down in the second escape.

So the score is now three, two.

Then the other guy took bottom.

He escapes.

It's now four, two.

And then I'm like, they're going to go.

And the other guy's going to get the take down at the buzzer or within the last

10 seconds.

And they're each going to have a take down and one escape.

But this guy is going to have two escapes.

So he's going to win the match, even though this guy wrote him for almost a minute

longer.

But it's just because it's just

because you got taken down later.

Well, yeah, I mean, if you get a take down and write out, that's better than a.

No, but he wrote him for longer by folk style rules.

He was able to take him down as many times and control him for a longer period of time.

So that's where it was unfair to me.

Part of the chest, yeah, it's part of it.

If you score at the end of periods, you're more likely to get a write out.

So those points are those scores are incentivized.

Yeah, I heard you talking about this on the last show.

But I didn't like it.

I don't like that you can take somebody down and control them for longer, but you lose.

I'm okay with it.

Yeah, yeah, this one didn't give me up at night.

Get off the bottom.

So one second of writing time, you're not wrong.

You're not wrong.

There is there is a disparity there, but I think it's okay.

I'd much rather they just started calling take plus think about how electric like,

because the most exciting writing time is is when it's right around that minute.

Yeah, so just let's just cut that out.

Let's go right to it.

And then minute and a half, it's the death.

Wow.

I'm decreasing it's the death now.

Yeah, I'm increasing Matt wrestling, the importance of Matt wrestling.

Minute and a half.

I just want to take it.

Dude, that could be like one take down and you get a leg and get out.

Hey, that's a free point.

You should be getting up.

Yeah, it is a free point for us.

You should be escaping very easily.

And then that increases chest game too for like a choice in the second and third.

If it's only one second of writing time, that's all you need.

I don't know.

I'd much rather than just start calling take downs and stalling.

Well, I'm doing that too.

That too.

Yeah, I guess they're not separate.

Plus I'm putting a step out in.

I don't think I like the JD rules.

And then I'm just getting, you know, if you don't get out in 10, 15 seconds,

say you just put you back on your feet, something like that.

I'm just worth shopping with that.

Seriously, what is going to happen here?

You mean like in terms of reaction time and we don't know what reaction time is?

I mean, they don't completely arbitrary.

They don't know.

Yeah, I mean, it's just you don't know what's going to, you have no idea.

Match to match sequence to sequence.

What's going to be called a take down on what is it?

It's I think it's a huge.

Now, I don't think I actually said this a couple of shows ago,

but sometimes I just say things where I think I said just get rid of writing time.

I don't actually mean that.

Wow.

You're from man.

You've been all over the top to like one second or I'm sorry, reaction time.

I said, writing time, a reaction time.

I don't actually mean that because there are scenarios where hands touch and it's not.

It should not have been a take down or you know, something like that.

There was a one in I think it was a Missouri match.

Who did Missouri just rush?

Iowa State.

Yeah.

On Sunday.

It was Josh Edmund match.

It was the perfect reason you have reaction time.

It's like the wrestling, the guys running around, hand down the second he gets behind, hand comes up like that's reaction time.

This stuff where they're sliding around on the hand here, hand here, crawling around, crawling around, then come up.

No, that's well beyond these guys of they've lost, they've lost it.

And they're, the leadership is not able to drill down any level of consistency.

It feels accepted.

It feels accepted that this ref calls it this way and this ref is going to call it that way.

And we know they call them differently and this guy is going to be slow and this guy isn't.

And that's just the way they are.

How can that be reality?

That can't be the way it is.

You can't say well, that's just Jimmy.

I don't think there's any left.

That's the way it is.

Yeah.

It can't be that way.

Like, no, you have to say this is, this is, this is how you all have to call it.

You can't say, well, in my opinion, it take down whether it would, is it, and you know, oh, it's three points now.

So that means it needs to be harder.

No, you all need to agree.

What is a touchdown?

What is a, a foul?

Like, you have to have some level consistency.

And of course, there's going to be differences.

And of course, like, it's not going to be exact.

But the, the width of what can and can't be considered to take down versus what you can narrow that band significantly.

And they're just not right now.

And it's getting worse.

I would love, I wish there was like a monthly NCAA wrestling referee show.

And they just went and talked about current, what, what a lot of people are talking about.

Just so they're, you know, we get some level of transparency of, hey, we are discussing this amongst ourselves.

Or we have decided this, or we are calling this because this way.

And, hey, you know what, this call was wrong by these officials.

And this is why it's wrong.

Or, hey, you guys think this is wrong.

But here's why this call was actually correct.

Yeah.

You know, just a little bit of transparency.

Yeah, no one's asking for perfection.

And there's an expectation of, you know, there's going to be incorrect calls for sure.

But it's not a job.

I don't want to be official.

It's a tough job.

Yeah.

Same here.

It's much easier to complain about.

Yeah.

That's far easier.

I was thinking a lot about that.

I think, see on text me.

Hold on.

Let me see if I have an update from see on who probably is now wearing pants.

I hope he's got those.

Yeah.

When AJ had an emergency, he'll jump as soon as he can.

Okay.

So the guy that just walked out of the hotel behind see on half way throughout.

I wonder what he's thinking.

He just sees this guy holding up this phone.

Like this.

All the funny shorts at like 7.30 AM.

We all miss this part.

6.30.

We see on calls on and I'm like, okay, hey.

I'm kind of like run through the game playing like, all right, see on.

I know I thought it might be cool if you get into your story

But are there any anecdotes I could to you up for and the call and see on just proceeds to talk for like basically 15 20 minutes straight and

then at a different point in time. I'm like, hey, you're you got Wi-Fi problems. Can you go here go there?

He tried a couple different things he ends up outside and then I'm like, okay, but I say something. He's like, what we're on the show

He was doing the show. He's like, he had any more questions for me. Yeah, that's what he said and you hadn't asked a question

I had a 20 minutes question. I was just kind of like a game planning for the show. He knows I think he knows I'm maybe assuming

The show starts at 8 a.m. Central. He thought we started I guess it like 742 central and worst so he did all this stuff and halfway through

I was like, I think Cian thinks we're doing the show right now, but he was just talking and like, you know, he's sharing all these

You know impactful stories. I didn't want to stop his train of thought, but then you know you get 20 minutes in and see on things

We've been doing this show. We're just actually just talking so that was that was fine

But they ended up being even better because we had good cell service and that was great. So

Did y'all talk about on the on a on Mondays show after after I jumped?

I listened to most of the questions I guess I was just driving back. Yeah, nothing crazy. Okay. I was statements early some other

Tools that happen this weekend. We are officially done with tools now too for the year. So it is it is full on postseason time

Let's go now speaking of postseason. We do have a question that popped up in the chat

Which is about the Iowa lineup and and why on wrestle stat

Voina Vitch is listed as starter is 57 and then Arnold at 97 is that

Do we know is that what's happening? I think the 57 one I don't actually I don't know because Jordan wrestled the last match

They they I can tell you this. It's not they're not operating on any inside information

I don't think I think that's just speculation

I do expect to see gay barn old at 197 for Iowa. That makes too much sense. Yep

Unless angel of for all he's not back angel for I will be back

So you should wrestle gave it 197 why not

And then for Voina Vitch Williams. I don't know. I mean they wrestle Williams against Landon

They've been going back and forth. I would say neither with surprise me. Who did they listen at 41 out here this year?

Miss here. Yep. I don't know

We could ask them. They're very forthcoming when we ask but I would guess it's a guess

And nothing rooted. I wonder if

Does Voina Vitch have more?

Did he allocate or something like that? Yeah, I mean this year probably wouldn't have allocated but you think yeah

He's he missed large chunks of time, but yeah, I don't

Iowa 41 57 97 there's no certainties there and we're not going to know until

They enter it and you know Tom probably won't even talk about it in the week of

Cressard we normally get

precedes the Wednesday before

Big tents I says what's been the past year or two less than a week. We should have big ten seats

That'll be awesome because we have a show Thursday and

That show will be the first show in our new studio. I've been threatening a move

But that's gonna happen. At least that's what they said Greg nodding not Greg's very nervous

Told other dates to once we once we do that show that's when I'll feel

Confidence that's a fitting show to be in that new studio conference weekend, you know, that's could be great

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm excited for that

It's really nice. I tweeted a video of it

But then it looks even better now because it wasn't even done then so I think you're gonna like it and more than anything

Not that you guys are like who?

Who and all over like the studio and the aesthetics but like we're gonna be able to do cooler stuff like

I don't know if you said this. I know it was before the show

Like we're able to do Collins a lot easier and then we're gonna have like

Some funk functionality with like david's computer that can do stuff that we couldn't do before so it should be should be a better quality show

Um, then it is right now. So we're really looking forward to that

Okay, I said it's postseason time. I'm gonna give out my insane champion predictions. Mm-hmm. Okay. Done this a couple times

But here if you want to know what's gonna happen march 21st lock in okay right now

125. I want to get show starts

Luke little yeah, I think that's the easy pick right now. I mean, he's gonna be the the betting favorite

He's also win big tens feels like

I feel like you're either gonna feel much more confident or

After big tens if he beats Nick again because it feels like Nick is the tougher toughest potential challenger

To him there um

I would I would expect yeah, I think he's the odds on favorite

133 what are you gonna do here buddy jacks for oh my god, I said it Monday and I'm doubling down at

Time me to time me to that ship if I'm going down with it just the stuff he can do nobody else can do

You know what I kind of don't disagree

I and I

You guys know I felt like he could

Right, but I felt like he was kind of far off

Um, and you know, I could be overreacting. That's part of the fun of this show

But I wasn't writing them off after the after looking kind of sketchy against side L

I thought he can have those kind of matches. I still think

If he has to go through bird and blaze

I don't know. I don't know if he can do both it's gonna get clipped about one of them

I just think both those guys possess

Stuff that's gonna make things really hard. This did again

I mean bird was

He was fighting off his back like crazy against Kade Moore this year. Well

Kade Moore puts a lot of people on their back actually. So does jacks forest. So does jacks forest

And I think jacks would keep him there

Um, and would be able to maintain and keep more done put that many people on their backs

It seems like there's Lucas bird

um

So I don't know and then bend divino still exists

That it's it's gonna be it's a really tough one to pick but you

I think airing on the side of the point score

You you want to go down with that um

Okay

Imagine this

Marcus blaze wins big tents

Goes through divino and bird

Jacks does what he does a big twels beats frost, you know, maybe majors or techs him

Do you think that your confidence will be shaken seeing him go through Marcus go through that gauntlet

Not if not if jacks majors or techs Evan frost

I just made a made like a highlight of the last meeting between jacks forest and

Marcus blaze the one I don't know if it's the last one but the one of the clarion open yeah and

Kind of forgot, you know, you look at the score. I was like nine to five or something kind of forget

Jacks was winning for like six minutes of that match

He got the first takedown, you know, and then and then it was blaze who had to come back and get it

Um, with that takedown in near fall at the end and

Kind of forget that

You think all right the way for

Marcus blaze or for Lucas bird to beat jacks forest is just to be

You know too defensive too solid positionally not get takedown. I saw how it went last time right

No blaze had to go get it and he did and so I don't know. He's his winner. He's always been able to go get it

Yeah, it's about the nox series right yeah, um

That and that that factors in I think I'm between I'm not ready to declare

I'm between blaze and jacks right now

Which is cell phone

I want to I want to interrupt JD's predictions for a $20 super chat. It's not even a question

It's just a reminder. It's just top top me. Yeah, Matt Burke

1019 not a question or a reminder after NCA brackets are released

I want everyone's predictions on who the lowest seed to finish the highest will be okay

So we get to see that I'm a child he also said a positive way he said keep up the great work

Uh, enjoy subway today from your rich buddy Matt. Oh

Shout out rich. It's good to have some rich friends like Matt. I really hope we get

A jacks blaze and say final just because of all the story lines there right the the high schooler

Going for the title the

Just the emergence of the freshman at this weight class the Oklahoma State versus Penn State

Mm-hmm rivalry there the history between those two and the fact that they are going to go on and continue to most likely

Be 61 65 kilo guys and wrestle for world and Olympic teams even after this so

Yeah, this could be that now down for for final X to right just as well

Okay, 141 Jesse

Who who is if sir Joe if I told you okay, Jess hello

Stan Brock Brock always wrestles Jesse tough he does dude listening to him on the beta show got me

You know it boosted my confidence in Brock. He's he was a great guest on that show

Uh, but he he's like he said that a lot of this year. He's like man

You know coming back and being this old that one of the challenges is like I just wanted to skip to the end

He's like I've been in the finals and now I just wanted to skip back to that point and wrestle Jesse Mendez and beat Jesse

Mendez there and he said it's been you know

An exercise in trying to regain focus throughout the year

But that's where he's been motivated this whole time

So I don't know he kind of got me he kind of got me fired up listening to him

But to say it and to do it are two different things but I like Brock

149 change in this yeah

We'll skip to fort 57. I want to hear it

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Myra Shapiro really so you're just going to your team points right now. I'm team points. He's the point he is

He's the best offensive wrestler at this weight class. Um, I don't disagree with that. I don't know if he'd be my pick

Um

I kind of like PJ

Landon I would I really like think he's I think he just looks limited. Maybe it's just me

But I think he looks like since the you and I do something something's up

um

He's still good enough to

Make a very deep run

And Trell is scary

Not scoring

Probably the clip Caleb Larkin's there

Brandon can and we haven't seen he has not lost

You know it all right. How about this?

Your team points if can and wins big 10s

Uh

Because you know he's scoring

That's going to play in a major seat of doubt because you're not going you're gonna be that will be a major and you will have only seen my or wrestle

What Caleb Larkin that's it and uh, and it was crazy close crazy close

so

I think I think that'll be my prediction if kids but I would also say this

I

Feel like the separation isn't big enough between

Brandon Cannon

PJ Duke and Antel Taylor

For him to repeat that performance then two weeks later

Is that is that crazy that it's almost like if he wins

I'm like I'm almost less confident now because I'm like well you can't do that back to back

I mean well what he wouldn't have to be those two guys obviously with a bracket like that

He may not see them again right right like

Antel could fall. I mean PJ

You know that all these guys I'm PJ has lost this year

um

Yeah, this this way. So I think it's

I think it's tougher to predict than than any weight class. I really feel like it is. I think tougher to predict

It's tougher to predict. It's just tougher period

In terms of from a depth standpoint like how many guys like

It feels like could reasonably make the semi's make the finals. It makes it a crazy crazy weight class

I think it's gonna be tough to pick Meyer just one ranked really like top five top six guy

All year another limited you know he got fifth last year with a similar schedule

And so the reason I'm picking him is similar to the reason I'm picking in jacks and it's just like

Take game playing it out of it you throw these guys in a wrestling room and how

I know I know this isn't how you compete. This isn't how you actually get your hand raised at the national tournament

I feel like you just do like a seven-minute go

He feels like he would win like he feels like

Pure wrestler sounds like a bad way to put it like oh he's the best wrestler, but the best wrestler doesn't always win

That's not what I'm getting at. It's just like that's why I'm going with him

I think people I think it's easy to get enamored with

Slickness and technique, but like the NCAA tournament is

It's grind. It's the it's the biggest dogs. Yes guys. It could just frickin

Fight for seven minutes five matches in a row oftentimes

And that's where I'm like that's what gives me hesitation to pick to pick Meyer if that's what this the NCAA tournament is like

the ultimate

Toughness. Yes challenge not that Meyer's not exceedingly tough to do what he's done, but just like

I don't think he's able to outslick everyone

Is my point and so if it's not about out slick out slick and I'm then what's it really look like against PJ Duke

Who's just an animal land and rob a dude and trell Taylor those guys?

I think those three are nightmare matchups for Meyer that he could win like I think

Conversely someone like Brandon Cannon

I think Meyer matches up pretty well against him

I think the the volume attacking and the insanity that can and brings I think

Meyer could could do well with that

Whereas like PJ Duke I'd be like that's that's a tough one for him

There's definitely a scenario where you feel like

PJ wins it

By a late takedown or a riding time point or something similar. Yeah

That is probably my least confident pick for sure

Because it feels like if jacks doesn't win. It's like

He's getting to make the finals. He's gonna get third, right? But like I mean there's a scenario

There's a scenario where he like loses the place in the semi's and then

Side out gets him on the backside. Maybe yeah, I yeah, I think that ship is sailed. I'd be I'd be stunned if side out beat him

Sorry, I don't know about stunned not stunned

Never stunned. I'm allowed to say that word. Uh, thank you Shane. Yeah, but I

I feel like I feel like that opportunity was was was previous which is weird to say but

165 Mitchell really

Really just kidding

Yeah, he's tough tough guy to pick against

Really really just

Almost want to fast forward to like the us open

Mm-hmm him in car that showdown. Oh my gosh

Um, but you know Mitchell can't think like that. He got it lock in if one guy

Knocked off Mitchell this year. Is it lock it? I'd say blaze blaze

Calianos just had too many chances. Um, yeah, I think

We've seen that however blaze cuz blaze can ride

You got to hold them down

You can't have him in your face for

Seven minutes six minutes. It's you got to ride him for lead. That's the only way car beat him

Yeah, take a little bit out of him. It's not just the takings. You gotta

You can't have him sprinting in your face that long. It does not work

And I think Joey is the kind of guy who can put a

Smart can put a game plan together

um

And then again, you know, obviously these are these are

These are not why at gable level odds, but these are really long odds

But if you're asking me who I would say Joey

There's no guarantee he gets he ever wrestles Mitchell. So he does have a right to be hellish. So we'll see

Oh my gosh 74

Levi yep. Yeah, that one of my most confident

I feel very confident Levi 84

Sinclair time. I like that. I think he's my pick as well

Yeah, he's my pick, but

Rock, Rock, oh, I mean

The

I don't why I think Aiden matches up. Okay, he gets rock. I think Rocco's gonna have a hard time scoring

on Aiden Sinclair

Does he ride Rocco Welsh? I don't know Max McAnelli

Just because Aiden beat Max kind of soundly at that doesn't mean he's beaten Max before and then Max gets him back right and in freestyle

We've seen that and

You know max is kind of

He didn't wrestle

Rocco, right correct

He's not wrestled Angelo this year because Angelo was out that duel because Angelo was out

He wrestled Gabe so we're we could be letting the memory of national duels

Lume a little larger than it should hold a little more weight than it should

In regards to Max McAnelli

And he hasn't had the opportunity like an antrail tailor has who that I mean you want to talk about a tough national

He's got major by Rizinski and Brandon Cannon

Okay, but oh Max. It was barely loose Aiden Sinclair lost kind of kind of more one-sided than we thought

Against Aiden Sinclair and then he's just beating everyone else

Unlike

Antrail he sent out the opportunity and trove got to wrestle PJ Duke and land in robodoo and and

um

Avenge up which have lost to the avenge

Uh, he didn't but he didn't wrestle Brandon. Oh, he didn't wrestle

Ham and he he didn't wrestle since get their top. He's the number one ranked guy because he's had those opportunities that max

Through no fault of his own has hasn't had so um, I think you can you rule out any of those guys

Those big four. I think it's it's a mistake

But I think Aiden is my pick as well. We're sorry

I said Entral didn't wrestle can he didn't wrestle robodoo. Right. No, he wrestled robodoo

Adults

No, he got beat by cannon and then he didn't get that opportunity back

He did not wrestle robodoo at duels and then he did beat robodoo. Yes. That's what it was. Yes

Uh, where was I 97

Josh bar. Mm-hmm

Rocky matches interesting, but I mean Josh is just looks so good this year

Rocky's got it. Rocky has to get early take down I feel and short in the match similar like how you beat Mitchell like

Get get your hands locked on a single when you're feeling your best get that finish ride for 48 seconds

You know that kind of that kind of match

285

Young good time. I knew you're gonna say that

Yeah, I think I think that's a fair pick. I think Trumble don't the reason you wouldn't pick younger is because of his pass and say it performances

Guys a one-time all-american at 197

Seventh I think so I don't know putting it together five matches Isaac Trumble

looms

But yeah, I think if you're talking about the best

He's the best neutral wrestler with very minimal mat deficiencies

Uh, I think you side with with younger there. I think that's fair

Um, David if you want. I don't know if we have any other super chats, but I like some questions um

All right, did not like questions, but I pull up a bunch of questions you go to my from my Twitter. Yeah, okay, great

Yeah, I'll just have to trust you. Oh, yeah, you're gonna have to trust me on this, but we do have one more super chat. Oh perfect dollar 99

Okay, and honestly this quickly. Yeah

302 dot b9 send us this dollar 99

Who do you think wins a head-to-head match Mendez or Mitchell mezzan break and let's assume they're the same size for this exercise because I would pick the bigger guy

Um, uh, you're a fun one basically just asking like pound for pound. Yeah, say Mitchell

You guys got one loss ever

very very close

Um

And mint mendez this I mean you know you're asking this year

It's tough to say, but Mitchell has a longer track record of just being insanely dominant

All right, yep, I agree. Don't forget. I mean

Jesse lost a boat Bartlett last year twice twice, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense

All right, we'll get into some of these other questions, but first our producer Greg reminded me that

We got it. We got a shout out our fans at Nike wrestling. It's we do incredible sponsor of this show

Nike wrestling we love what they're doing and JD's got the freaks. He's got the freaks out freaks

We're on display at the ranking series. I saw a bunch of freaks on the mat. I did too

I was at the Iowa state tournament Austin Gomez was wearing a mow which we didn't mention

Yeah, he it might be time for him to retire

I you got to from from the sport he are retired once because of concussions

This guy's getting collar tied and going unconscious

He's not double-legging and leaping and spiking himself on his head

These are innocuous and he's going completely out

I just got fired up yesterday. I like what are they doing letting him wrestle after that?

He went unconscious. It's like he was choked out like I'm not I don't really worry about that

Like you get strangled out and then okay, you can come back and wrestle

but

There's concussions it's scary stuff. It's super scary and especially

It's scary with anyone that if you go unconscious from head trauma or whatever for that reasons for non-strangulation reasons

The match should be over no matter just

I don't think there's really any circumstances like out out like yeah

Okay, David Taylor got kicked in the face and he kind of wobbled and needed a second

It's like and maybe they're like I'm not a medical person like they just feel really different to me when you get straight up

K-O'd

It's got to be done especially with Austin Gomez's history

I think it's time and it's unfortunate because he obviously can still really wrestle

But that's not the full picture

Unfortunately just imagine how bad it would have been if he didn't have those Nike freaks

So yeah anyways head over to athlete ps.com

Right pick up your pick up your gear. No, that was yeah, that was not good. That was not good highly crazy learning

We do have the the the Nike website up on there. Yeah athlete ps.com head over there head there now all right and we'll go to some questions

First of here. We've got

AZ wrestling fan how does I was team look next year?

They're losing a lot of projected points seems like it's gonna be a big drop from a down year

2026 recruiting sparse

What are they gonna do? Is this a portal situation?

uh

Yes, I mean

I've said I've been saying for a couple of years. I

I've been

Talking about this year that was coming for a while for Iowa and even really last last year. I was like

They they are only counting on the portal. They cannot have any

they're

The high school recruits they're bringing the class of bringing in they know

They cannot compete with that so they're they have basically been telling you without saying it we're going to portal

the vast majority of this lineup and

That's gonna have to be what they do next year when you lose Dean Peterson in and you you have Deluca

But guy wrestled one match this year. This is a guy Deluca. I think he's really talented

Major injury concerns coming into college before he got to Iowa. He missed like basically a year

wrestled like a handful of matches

um

His senior year right and

wrestles one match gets hurt immediately and never saw him again

So it had to be significant or he didn't want to wrestle either way

That's that's tough and I know they're really high on him. They's not just lip service

They're like this dude could could ten for the spot this year with even with Dean there, but

Okay, so that's the bright spot

Is Deluca in in terms of people coming in that's the brightest spot you got and there's a lot of questions there

With his health 33. I don't know the plan. Maybe miss your drops down

Miss your drops down that creates 41 challenges for sure and they're already not created 41

49 block

It's good. Is he a guy that's going to be wrestling deep in the NCAA tournament that remains to be seen

57

Same guys 65 they lose caliando who's been

Their guy for the last you know three years

And there's there's no help coming they have to portal 65 74 is that Gabe

If so that's good get that gave down at 74 84 good with um with angelo, but then 97

I think Harvey is gonna need more than a year. I don't think Harvey's close right at two

The Iowa standard is contending for all American national titles

I don't think Harvey's gonna be there in a year could be wrong

He's really good in high school, but just the early returns are that he is not and

You can say he's red-shirting this year, but the results are the results and

You it used to be you could look at a tough true freshman year and be like well in in one year

There could be but these guys are coming in so good typically so ready that when you see that kind of a true freshman year

It's like oh

Might might be a little bit and then heavyweight with Keter. Does Keter come back?

I don't know

Um, so it's gonna be a tough year next year like how many guys reasonably could be wrestling in the finals next year for Iowa

I don't know it's not a it's not a big number so

But the portal exists they've got a lot of guys in the portal and if they get the right guys

And there's the right guys and there's guys that they don't work out. They need to it's basically bad a thousand there

um

So yeah next year's gonna be tough for for Iowa

It's just what you said kind of got me thinking you go back 70s 80s 90s

This is for sure the case just because there was a lot of stayed on kids and kids didn't wrestle you around and

there wasn't

Access to video and stuff, but

I'd be interested to see

in the past 15

20s going back kind of a far but past 15 years

How much it has shifted to

All Americans are always basically top 100

recruits coming out of high school how often now

Can a school go out in pluck a relatively unknown guy who

Wasn't uh

Top three place or top four place or at fargo

Who wasn't on the big board

Maybe maybe crack national rankings maybe didn't

Can plug them into a lineup and by the end of their career they can be

You know a one two three

Time all-american. Well, it's I think that's always been an outlier. I think maybe it happened more in the past than

Then it does now. I think like Buchanan was definitely not a big big board guy. Mitchell wasn't until his senior year

Um, and even like after his like freestyle senior April. Yeah, that was great guy. So it it happens still

I mean drew foster their guys like that

I just think a program like I or you can't have that kind of patience. No, I I agree and they haven't but like

Or maybe even

How often do we see a guy anymore go?

Study progression you were not a qualifier. You were a qualifier. You were around a 16. You were an all-american

That level and that's what I don't know

um

You know 15 years ago. I just wasn't as locked in on your non-national champion

Level guys where now it feels like almost everybody is at the level there at

freshman year

Yeah, there's not

And I know that's not entirely true and I can probably be

You can throw a bunch of examples at me now, but I feel like that's happening less and less

Where we see progression or where we see a guy who went he was an all-american. He was 7th or 8th freshman year

Yeah climbing then he was 3rd or 4th then he was finalist then he was champ

Yeah, it seems like but you know as first two years he had no shot at champion. It seems like now. It's like

well

He could have been a champion freshman year, but didn't get it done

And then he's contending like every year

Hey, I just I don't feel like anymore. We see that progression because as you're just coming in at the level there at

It's clean up a few things

Show progression, but you're going from

Uh

Top three finisher as a freshman to a champion or you're going from a national qualifier as a freshman to

Eighth place finisher at best as a senior. Yeah, that's the progression we're seeing not you went the full gauntlet

Like you see in high school still

Right it's kind of so you know, I like seeing guys who I mean, I don't think it happened that much in the past either

That's that's what I don't know. Yeah, I want a contribution to get on and see if I back up

I just

Just what I'm feeling like that we don't see anymore, but it probably didn't happen

That means yeah to believe it'd be cool to know all right. We got another question here Abe

Maraussla, I think that's how you say Abe's name your solar top three matchups. You're looking forward to at conference weekend

Okay

So you got to pick

Fifth 157 in the big 10 like one of those I feel like yeah

Canon PJ I

Want to see that um

What's a big 12 one

Frost jacks has lost some juice after

Well first frost that's what that's what I'm saying. That's why it's lost juice and after what jacks did Drake

I mean every week they got a different he's hurt. He's sick. He's sick. He's hurt. It's like man

I don't know if it's the cut or what it is, but the guy can't get on the mat. It's time for Xerbin and waters to officially wrestle

They both didn't wrestle each other

I do want to take LV in the duel. Oh wait, Xerbin, Xerbin and B waters in the duel. Oh, you're right. The takedown no takedown. Yeah

um

Oh who oh larkin versus uh landen. Yeah

That's a crazy match. That is a great way

I think 12. Yeah, I want to see that. Oh, you're gonna be there. Oh, yeah, I'll be there and then you're gonna be living on Tulsa time

Yes, another big 10 match up. I want to see. I mean

Max Max Rocco is up there for me for sure blaze bird. I really want to see that

Hmm. I want to know what happens. Yeah, I want to know what happens more than uh

Show me the 30-second highlight prove me wrong guys, but yep

Um, but yeah, the result from that one is really interesting. Yes, because

Bird Looms because he didn't hit any of them

This right he's the reigning champ and you know preseason

He was still my pick because I was like he's savvy and in the way he wrestles. I thought would give fits

to some of these young guys

And maybe I'm just falling victim to

Not watching him wrestle the top guys is here, but the

Obviously he's not my pick anymore. I've just like lost the luster if he wins big 10s

Give me give me. I'm back on bird you're back on bird

There you go. I was about to say I love posing those questions because I know where you're at

It's like all right, but what if this happens? Yeah, I mean

I feel like he will turn into the conventional pick if he does it again because he hasn't lost right

But he's got to do it. He's got to do it and jacks is such a different

Box to unpack then

Marcus blaze and drake. I uh

All right, John aff

What's the note is a little programming question for you guys are you picking big 10 champs for each other and for NCA as well

I think you should get a pick it every way

But it's that you guys picking which way do a random draw of weights maybe from JD's ad

He always has a hat on that we got that bar covered right away

Yeah, I don't know. We haven't talked about what we're gonna do

Or how I didn't I didn't want to bring up does JD want to continue the pickums thing just after

Well, I don't want to stop

I know the result of my stop. Okay, um, like gambling you key. I was just thinking the same

I was like wow that's keep JD out of Vegas

Um, what should we do? I don't know because like

Um, I don't know. We'll think of this. Yeah, I have an idea. We'll brainstorm. Yeah, we'll brainstorm

Yeah, yeah, you got it. Maybe you got a pick multiple conferences. I don't know, you know

We'll see all right Tyler Perry

What's the worst punishment seven-minute handfight with Rocco Welsh seven-minute match with mezzan

Brink with no text or falls allowed or being Matt returned by younger bestida guys. This is not hard

If you get Matt returned by younger bestida it could change your life forever

So yeah, it's it's like listen Mitchell

Rock handfight. It's all bad. I don't want to do any of this

but like

I don't know I might take one return from younger

The best to me is seven-minute match with Mitchell

He's just taking me down a bunch to be talking and clapping in my face

Yes, but a handfight with Rocco Welsh my neck will never be the same

That's the thing like I wish Rocco would be able to take me that because

Then it just gets him off my neck and you're like taking punches just to the neck with him handfighting you

We're a large human being small exactly. Okay, so all right like I feel like I can kind of land gracefully

If a younger return a little bit and at least it's over fast. Yeah, yeah your life

So then you you tell me

We're getting in the minute five six and seven Rocco's not snapping you through the mat through

But I mean, I can dude. I don't know you saw you snap fishback

Um, but I'm not trying to win. I'm just trying to remember fishback was trying to win. I'm trying to live

This is different different mindsets

um

Matt returned by young so the the best case like the best potential outcome does lie with the business

state-of-matter return it could you just get matter turned but oh, I wasn't one so bad

um

I'm getting matter turned then a seven-minute match with Mitchell and then worst

Rocco. Yeah, seven-minute handfight throwing up. Thanks. You're picking the matter turn. I think I am

I trust my cat-like abilities to

The man, but it's dude

This guy's all right. There you go

JD

Okay, Mitchell's gonna. I know

Like I'll see y'all in the afterlife because I'm dying no matter what yeah

All through these scenarios. We got another would you rather situation? This one doesn't involve us being in pain

Yes, I love this. Yeah, uh, Tramble, Harold wants to know would you rather watch a 15-minute live-go of jacks and Sergio or PJ Duke and Mitchell

It's jacks and Sergio for me. I okay, so for from a wrestling perspective jacks and Sergio, but like the personalities

Like what actually happens in like a full like a match between PJ Duke and Mitchell mess and ring

Not just the wrestling, but like the I don't know. I'm taking Mitchell PJ because

Mitchell has a

Uncanny ability to get under people's skin and a six or seven-minute match

Practice more than double that and it's

Like I'm picking that yeah, I mean jacks and Sergio that'd be fun. Rolly like chaotic experience

But uh, I don't know. Maybe I'm just leaning into the drama a little more drama. Yeah, okay. All right. I like it

Uh, okay real Avery Lynch asking the important questions

You could only have four restaurants in your city which four are you choosing? I'll go first

I'm picking the version of these restaurants in their prime, which I don't know

I don't know if you could do that, but he he makes the rules Starbucks, Panera, Chick-fil-A, Panda Express. Those are his

Uh, I'm gonna zoom in on these as graphics a little small. He did not do bad. Um, okay

Hope it's all he's getting a shot on it. It's Chipotle on there. Yes, it's a top right. All right Chipotle panda

Right out the gate

And Fudrucker's build room is crazy. That's not even fast food. Fudrucker is it? I don't know

Um

All right, this is good

Man, I might I this is gonna be crazy. I could get some hate for this. I'm open to it. I'm going to subarrow. Oh

I know a classic New York slice slice. It's not bad

Um, that that you're crazy for that. No, um, and then my fourth

I'll go i-hop

Okay, I like i-hop. It takes to have a breakfast option. Yeah, to me

To me this is easy

You're gonna say long john silvers

The goat. Is it even on here? No. Oh, yeah, it is right there. No, I'm not. This is easy

One-one is applebees. It doesn't even belong on here. Yeah, I see I'm I don't even know why

Applebees one-one easy. Okay, two I do like Starbucks. I'm getting my coffee. Yeah, in my breakfast

Three, I'm living moss. Yes, Taco Bell

Four

Quiznos. I'm getting my subs, but no breakfast because you have john some Starbucks does breakfast. Oh, yeah, they kind of do they reheat

Two of my former I'm not a huge breakfast breakfast cold stone on there. Yeah cold stone and Chuck E. Cheese right right?

Right sandwiched in the middle is Starbucks. So two former employers. So that's good

Okay, yeah, I really like crispy cream donuts, too. This is this is a good list. I could

There's a lot of combos of four. I'm pretty happy. I could have stopped after my one-one

Applebees. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, it gets hated on as this jillies. I find them both to be they have they have some great

I mean they have some great like uh, you know on a budget specials like like 50 cent wings sometimes

Oh, yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta do it. All right, uh, we got a question here from Bobby Kebel big bob 4769

Like who is the best high school wrestler?

Ever from each of the states you guys are from

Uh, that who would go on to be the best or like who is the best when they graduated? Who do you think? I yeah, I don't know

Like who is the most who's the most legendary like high school or high school or from your state? I would probably say for Virginia

I'd probably say Cody Gardner's um

He was like the number one overall recruit. I'm pretty sure when he graduated

um

tragic

into his life but

he was

undefeated throughout high school was just I mean he would go to Iron Man and Bees and just like

Steamroll and everyone so I would I'd probably say Cody Gardner would be up there Patrick Bond does come to mind he was

Extremely elite for great bridge. Um, there's others, but I mean

The like I'm just thinking high school versus obviously we had better. I mean

Devin Carter and Joey dance and there's other guys from Virginia. Bubba Jenkins of course

But like the best high school wrestler I think would be Cody Gardner. I think for Iowa

Maybe historians can get on here and better, but uh David Kellgaard or however you say his name

He was like a

I don't know ten eleven twelve time Fargo champion

Or or something cheese something crazy like that mark Rylens up there too. He won Fargo a bunch of times

um

This is cheating for Colorado. It was not really. It's guys is Colorado. You can't say Henry so who know

Watching that guy in in the Colorado state tournament was ridiculous

Like he said he had cartwheels into like single legs and just unbelievable stuff

But he's from Arizona. So he maybe doesn't count probably the the

Legend that I was watching around my era was Tom clumb

He was like gonna be the first ever four-time undefeated state champion

He got beaten the finals of senior year

But he was so dominant that they had like an entire like separate media set up just ready for all right

When this guy wins

You know and then this guy Brett roller was on a mission took him out, but yeah, Tom clumb. I also

I didn't say dangable. Oh, I was gonna say

cable

Just just in high school that I mean the things were just different like then in high school

He wasn't wrestling everyone in the country right

But if you're going everything obviously it's dan cable mm-hmm all right got a 133 question here from rich g

Over under four and a half freshman all americans at one thirty three

And then over under one and a half senior all americans at one thirty three. So

Davino blaze jacks

Sidel

Sidel so you have to have larkin on the podium my guess to get over

I probably take the under I would take the under four just say for the freshman on the podiums like one of those guys will

slip

senior a's give me the over at two with bird and jake yeah

But what others could america leads the world in medicine development it matters

We get new medicines first nearly three years faster

Five million americans go to work because we make medicines here at home and not relying on other countries keeps us safe

But china is racing to overtake us will we let them or will we choose to stay ahead

When america leads america cures

Let's tell washington to keep us in the lead learn how at america cures dot com paid for by pharma

For us to still a junior right i don't think there's not a lot of options

Yeah, that's kind of it both are both those guys can get on so they both have to do it yeah

So I say yeah, I say under freshman

Under senior a's a 33

Sad man, I want to I want to believe that drick's gonna do it. Yeah

All right ioh high school state championships are apt up

Where do you put drachon Ross on impact coming to college next year compared to bobas at another top ranked seniors

Side by side

I think drachon i think both are undeniable

Forces at the way classes they should wrestle they're going to wrestle next year for their respective teams

Drachon at heavyweight i feel like the field is lined up perfectly for him

You know you lose younger and trouble trouble who i would say would be trouble for him

um but beyond that like

Anyone else i think he can i'm not predicting drachon Ross national champion freshman year

I just think he's gonna be in that conversation

He needs to stay healthy he has this year um

I think he's gonna be ready to contend year one and it's very obvious that that bow will contend year one

Drachon Ross

Drachon Ross and Ben Keter also

Potentially deserve a all-time iowa school coming out of high school yeah

shout-out, but

How Ben has done in his career so far is maybe tampering my expectations a little bit for

Drachon that's not fair, but uh um just trying not to be like

Drachon is gonna be for sure the guy it's just sometimes it can be a little bit harder

At heavyweight you know mirisola is taking a while to figure it out, but now he's kind of cooking

So and and you see like you know the way that

Drachon's had to challenging matchups with Kobe Merrill you know a guy that's a really really good hand fighter and really strong and cold

Mirisola and cold mirisola so you know there's definitely a difference between

Wrestling kind of regular high school competition in those types of guys

But that's funny like that that that back and forth he just had with yourself is basically what was going on in the chat

There's some people are like he would finish top three this year

And then there are other people that are saying they're citing Ben Keter and on all that in the youtube chat

So we'll see i'm really excited to see it

This discussion uh just talking heavyweights Drachon a

It kind of made me think of a discussion we had in the office

The other day and just how heavyweight is kind of just a different sport as a whole

almost and

We were specifically talking about

Why at Hendrickson and it's like

I feel like heavyweight is the almost

The only way you can do that where you're a relatively unknown kid from small town Kansas

come in and then you're

Immediate

Almost impact player and then can go on to defeat an Olympic gold medalist in college

Like I just feel like you can't do that at 133 pounds

Yeah, yeah, I mean you see a lot of guys that were successful heavyweights in high school

And then you see I mean even like you know Adam Aronson like coming in for you and I

Having a skill set of a middleweight and then you know, it's like you know

Have a little more success and even though maybe you wouldn't appreciate so much being successful at heavyweight

I feel like or I feel like you can get to a very proficient level

in D1 wrestling by just being you know

average or above average athlete and not being stupid

I was in like

Don't take bad shots like just try to get to a control tie

Push don't take bad shots and you're gonna be in a lot of matches and gonna win a decent amount

Next question. All right next question. Let's see. We already did that one

You got a bunch more, but I don't know which ones are the best ready at 930. How about this is 930

This is from master Santiago

Who will cause the next big coaching splash in the same way

David Taylor did it with Oklahoma State

His bet is that if when Spencer Lee becomes the Iowa head coach, it would be seismic for the program

Well, that would be seismic for sure. I feel like

If you're asking me who's the best

If you say DT level splash who could do it and I think

There's gonna be programs that want to do this and if you don't get the right guy

It's like it could go back because I think there aren't a lot of guys with

No college coaching experience can come in and do what David has done

Um, and there's things surrounding David that have that have helped a lot too. It's like the right

It's the perfect situation and he was the perfect guy for it

um

I think Jordan burrows is a is a slam dunk coaching candidate. I think he's someone that um

One just talking to him. I feel like he's he's definitely thinking about it and he's

um

He's a really thoughtful guy and he's a winner and he's gonna

He's not only is he

Gonna be a good coach and teaching, you know, the fundamentals of wrestling. Not only is he be a great face of a program

If that's what he decides to do, but he's gonna get the right people around him to do it

And he's gonna ask he's asking the right questions and I don't know. I just feel like

he has the

The the charisma of the barato the savvy and the humility to

Make it work wherever he winds up if he winds up there and of course he's he's not said that but I just talking to Jordan

I feel like he wants to do it

Jordan is somebody

He sets his mind to it. He's going to be

His ceiling is going to be very very high. Yeah, yeah, right or his floor is going to be very very high

uh

Now because and I like what you said where he's gonna surround himself with the right people and have

humility because I'm not saying he's not

But in terms of just X's and O's wrestling take down

technique whatever I can't say for sure he's going to be slam dunk coach

Like we I think he would be but

I've known a lot of wrestlers that we're not the best coaches for one reason

or another but

I think he has the temperament to run a program be be a very effective CEO of a program in addition to

I think he would be a good

X's and O's

game-planning coach. I'm just not certain he'd be

The best

Could be I'm just not sold on that. Yeah, I feel pretty. Yeah. I feel strongly about it. Um all right. It's 937 938 actually

So it's time to go we're gonna be back on Monday. Yes. Yes

8am right here for the last show in three oh one congress probably

Never say never baby. Never say never

Thank you guys so much for tuning in. Thank you for cion

for hopping on

And talking about coach Douglas

Thoughts and prayers definitely with the Douglas family and all the

athletes and people that the that Bobby impacted

We will see you Monday have a great weekend good luck to everyone wrestling and a lot of state tournaments youth

High school, etc

Good luck to y'all wrestle hard. See ya