From a Basement to a Billion Dollar Brand: The Greatest Founder Story You Never Heard

So today, I get to sit down with the incredible founder, Monique Rodriguez, who founded a company

called Myel.

Now, this is quite literally the American dream come true.

When you start a brand at your kitchen table, raise millions of dollars and then sell it

to one of the biggest conglomerates in the space.

But it wasn't all smooth sailing and what I love about the interview is that she's really

honest about what it actually took to build and sell this business when she didn't know

anything about the space or the category and had no idea about what it would actually

take to make it successful.

What is so amazing is that Monique is actually on the other side.

She's still the CEO of her brand, which was acquired by Proctor and Gamble.

She's pretty much a masterclass in what it takes and I know you guys will love this episode.

Don't forget to like and subscribe.

To start with yourself, to kick off on April 15th in New York City, tickets are on sound

now at emigree.com.

Monique, welcome to Aspire.

Thank you.

I'm so excited to be here, so happy to be here.

And I am so excited to have you.

We've got so much to talk about.

Yes.

So I'm trying to figure out if we've covered it all before.

But we're going to cover it for the people all over again.

We're going to cover it today.

I promise you.

Oh, yes, we are.

And I love you for that.

When I think about you, Monique, your journey has been like quite literally any found

a stream.

And what I wanted to ask you was like, when you pull the curtain back, what do you think

the hardest part has been in building my own?

Wow.

Well, I would say the hardest part in building my own was not having anyone to show me

the blueprint and really just figuring this out as I go.

Like we are, we were flying the plane and building it at the same time.

And so that can come with a lot of mistakes, a lot of trial and error, also not having

the capital to sustain.

When we first started out, we were strapping and using our paychecks and what we had

in our savings to fund the business.

And that was a huge risk because, you know, I was working as a nurse.

My husband was an engineer and we were really just betting on ourselves.

And we had to make this work because, you know, we didn't have a plan B so far back

on, right?

We took all of our life savings.

We took all of everything that we were making to just solely put it into my ill.

And that's the hard part that people don't see like they see the glory on the outside,

but not really understanding like the turmoil that comes with the stress of not knowing

where your next payment is going to come from to fund your inventory.

And then you have your kids depending on you and you don't want to disappoint them.

And then you have the outside world that's looking at you crazy like, well, you guys had

great jobs.

Why are you leaving these great careers that are very stable and you have your 401K and

your pensions of all back on, like you're just throwing all of that away.

So you're also dealing with the pressures of the families and friends that don't really

understand and see the full picture.

You know, you don't want to disappoint.

You don't want to disappoint them, but more importantly, not disappoint yourself.

So 100%.

What would you actually say to other founders like, what do you wish you'd have known

earlier in your journey?

So what I wish I would have known earlier in my founder journey is that everyone's not

going to like and agree with the decisions that you make as a founder, even if your intentions

are very pure.

And I had to learn that obviously when I did my acquisition with PNG and I felt that

this was something that I prayed about.

I felt that, you know, this was something that was God led.

And I knew that my intentions behind why I wanted to be acquired was very pure.

But on the back end, I received a lot of criticism for that.

Oh, you did really?

I didn't know it.

Yeah.

Right?

I mean, I felt it.

I felt it.

We're going to dig all the way in because people already have to understand what you've

been through, what you built, the scale of what you built.

And then, you know, I feel like you dealt with unbelievable backlash from the very community

that you built this brand for and something that we should celebrate, right?

Yeah.

Like 100%.

Like, I was team Monique all the way in, all the way through.

I know you were.

Let me tell you.

I received a text.

Visibly and noticeably in the text and in the comments.

But I wonder what that actually teaches you about like anyone who holds an opinion of

your decisions.

Like, what do you think now having the benefit of hindsight and being able to look back

at that moment through very, you know, rose tinted glasses?

What did that moment teach you?

You know, that moment taught me that you have to say true to who you are and be your authentic

self and stay true to your vision.

And it's okay to know that sometimes people are going to misunderstand you, especially

when they're not coming from the same place that you came from.

And, you know, like I talked about earlier, no one understands the blood, sweat and tears

and the sacrifices that we put into building my ill.

So I can't expect someone that, you know, didn't come from the same place that I came from,

didn't walk a day in my shoes.

I can't expect them to understand why I made the decisions and why I decided to, you

know, partner with the brand that can take my brand to a global place.

You know, when I built my ill from the ground up, I never wanted it to be mediocre.

I've always wanted it to be a global brand.

And so it really just taught me to just stay true to my vision, you know, hold on to that

vision.

But I knew that I needed to surround myself with the right people to help execute that

vision.

I would tell founders like, you know, stay true to your vision, stay close to it.

But you don't have to be the one to always carry the vision with you.

Like that's a smart entrepreneur.

It's finding the right people to help execute with you, not for you.

So you can truly realize a full potential of what you started for me and my home and

my kitchen, right?

And so to me, it's a huge success story.

And, you know, I just feel that people may not get it, may not understand.

But I know that my intention behind it was for people to have access to products that,

you know, we're not necessarily at show when I was a consumer looking for products and

brands to support me and my hair journey.

So at the same time, while, you know, our consumers or our community, we complain about

like there's a lack of access, but when brands like Mayo grow to the capacity and scale,

you know, we shouldn't be criticized for doing the very thing that, you know, people

complain about not having access to a million percent.

Listen, and I think there's two sides of this conversation, right?

Because what we're really talking about is on one hand, a lack of understanding, perhaps,

a lack of what it actually takes and the reasons that people are able to buy and then have

an exit like you had.

And what I want to make sure that we do today is really take people on a journey because

it's so important to understand what you did when you did it, how you did it, because

you are such a blueprint for so many people out there, but by the same token, I really

want to kind of dispel a few myths.

And that, I think, is really, really important because when you don't know better, you can't

do better.

And one of the reasons that I even started this show was really to lift the lid, right,

to be honest about, what does it take to raise capital?

What do you need along the way?

What does it take to exit a business?

What happens on the other side of that exit?

So we're going to talk about a lot of that today.

But if you don't know, if you've never done that before, if you don't know anyone who's

ever done it, the kind of lack of understanding is what I think most visibly showed itself

after your exit.

It was really like more about worry, frustration, you know, it's like it is what she's done

going to like leave us and no longer belong to us.

And so I think it's important to kind of like explore a little bit around that.

But before we do, we have to go back to growing up in Chicago because your story is so wonderful.

And I wonder, like, what were you inspired by, like, who did you want to be?

Like, talk to me a little bit about little girl Monique.

Yeah, you know, that's interesting.

So yes, I'm from Chicago, Southside, to be exact.

You know, I had both my parents in the household, but you know, I write about this in my book,

my dad, he did suffer with substance abuse, but he was there.

And, you know, seeing his struggle and what he went through, I feel like that gave me

the motivating factor and the determination to, you know, say I wanted to do

something different, and my dad passed away in August, unfortunately, thank you.

And as I sit back and reflect, I always tell myself like he went through the

suffering and the pain so that I can run and continue on his legacy.

So, you know, I look at the bright side of, you know, the life that he lived and the struggles

that my mom had to endure in order for her to support two kids on her own pretty much.

And she did the best that she could.

And she was really adamant about making sure that her kids knew how to survive in this world.

So, I didn't grow up with the mentality of like I'm going to thrive in life, right?

Or I'm going to be like such and such when I grow up because quite frankly, I didn't have examples

of women that look like me that were, you know, business owners or doing something amazing,

you know, operating in the boardrooms and running business.

Well, your goals and aspirations, do you even remember?

Yeah, of course. So, my goals and aspirations was what I did eight years before I started my

L because that's what I saw. So, my mom, she worked at a hospital and she was there for over 40

years before she retired. And she would take me to, this is when you could take kids to the hospital.

So, she would take me to work and, you know, I would see all of her nurse friends.

And my mom was very strategic and like put in me in that position and given me that exposure,

which is what was the best that she can do at that time. And I saw all of her nurse friends.

And that was my, my inspiration of like, okay, I want to be a nurse. Like, I want to take care of

people. And so, she was very adamant about, you know, if you do this and you become a nurse,

it's recession-proof. You always have a job. You always have something to fall back on.

She was trying to give you a set of things. She was giving me like stability and, you know,

survival. So, that's what I saw. And that was what I wanted to be.

And no aspiration to like own a business, want a business one day.

When I was younger, I've always been very independent. And I've always been like a leader. Like,

if we were playing house or, you know, playing grocery store, I was the one that was always in charge.

My mom would also work weekend. So, I would be at home by myself. And it'll be me and my brother.

And he's the, he's younger. So, he would be off doing his own thing. But I would be, I was bored.

And I think that boredom is the birthplace of creativity. So, in my mind, I would just sit there

and just create and imagine this lifestyle that I wanted. So, I imagined the lifestyle that I

wanted at a young age, but didn't necessarily know that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I didn't

like connect the dots, right? Do you think about that now as like some kind of visualization?

Like, do you even believe in that? What, what do you think it is? Yeah, absolutely believe in,

you know, visualizing your future. And one of my favorite Bible verses is, right, the vision

and make it plain. So, I'm a firm believer of like, what you visualize and you pray on that

and you actually put the work in, you can bring your vision to fruition, right?

In your story and kind of, I've known you for a little while now. And I know that this big

turning point came for you when you lost your son. And it feels to me like that was such a pivotal

moment. Do you mind talking about that a little bit? Because I feel like that was some of like

the catalyst at what kind of gave you the impetus to be able to start on this journey of entrepreneurialism.

Yeah. And I'll just, you know, just back up a little bit as I was working as a nurse, you know,

I did that for eight years. And as I talk about like all of these things were like festering in my

vision, I never had the courage to like step out and just try something different. You know,

throughout my nursing career, I tried to do a lot of different things. I went from direct

sales, Mary case and Cicandles. And so again, like that archpinerial book was always there, right?

Didn't quite define what it was at that time. And I went through the tragic loss of my son in 2013

when I was eight months pregnant, his name is Milan. And I'm so sorry for you. I feel like so many

people listening will understand that pain and that devastation. And I think that one of the

reasons I wanted to touch on it is because for you, it was such a kind of pivotal moment.

pivotal moment. And so it's so incredible to what you are now and to understand that it kind

of came and was born out of such unbelievable pain. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how Maya was

created because, you know, my son, he unfortunately passed away, but I feel like his impact in my life

and so our family's life was more impactful. And he wasn't even here for a long time on this earth.

And my son allowed me to develop courage because when you go through tragic things like that,

you know, it really causes you to like take a step back and do a lot of self reflection.

And my pregnancy was high risk. It was also high risk for my life. And I'm like, look,

you only get one shot at life. And I no longer wanted to live life based on someone else's terms.

I no longer wanted to live my life based off of what my mom wanted for me. And my son Milan also

allowed me to gain a closer relationship with God. And that's when the moment that was so pivotal

for me changed because even though his, his death was so traumatic and so heartbreaking and so

hurtful, but it was a gift. And sometimes pain can come in a gift, but the gift doesn't always

come wrapped in shiny wrapping paper, right? It can come ugly, messy, whatever. And we don't look

at it in that moment. It's like this is a gift that God has given me, but I had to shift my narrative

and not ask God why me. But what are you trying to show me from this? And so the courage that I had

to leave my nursing career, no matter what everyone else was saying, no matter how many times

my mom begged me to continue to renew my license. I had to like turn off the distractions,

ignore the noise and say, you know what? This is for me. Yes. Because this is my life. This is not

no one else's life. And I have to do something that brings me joy and fulfillment. And starting my

ill gave me that creative outlet. First of all, it's incredible that you, that you had this gift out

of this tragedy came this courage because so many of us can live with fear. And we have these

big ideas about our life and big ideas about what it is that we want to do, but they stay kind of

trapped. And I feel like, you know, I, I've just written a book. And one of the things that I talk about

is the emotions that hold you back and how being able to get out of that space and get past fear

is probably one of the most important things, specifically for women that we can do. So I want you to

talk just a little bit more about that because one of the scariest things in the world is starting

a business, especially for somebody like you who has everybody in the background telling you that

that it's the wrong thing coming out of tragedy, but also like not knowing like what to do,

like what's the first step. So take me back to that original moment when you're like, okay,

I'm, you know, I'm going to use this kind of literal God-given courage. And I'm going to start

this thing. Like, what was going through your mind? And were you so, so scared?

Yeah. And I think that's the misconception is that I think people look at people like me and you

and say, oh, they're fearless. Like they're, they're never scared to do anything. Like, I'm,

I'm scared. I'm scared right now. Right? Like, we're always scared. And, and that's the thing, like,

you have to do it despite being afraid. And that's really what courage really is. And even if you

have like a little bit of courage, that's all it takes. And so, yeah, when I think back to starting

and stepping out on faith, I think my situation was also a little different because the courage that I

gained came from loss. And so when you go through loss and when you go through tragic things in

life, you have the mentality, you have a different perspective on life because my mentality at that time

was, well, what else do I have to lose? Right? You know, I've already gone through like the most

traumatic thing in my life. Like you've gone through hell. Yeah. Yeah. What can happen from here?

I feel like if I feel, then that's still not worse than what I've just gone through. I also had

the thought and mentality of like, I don't care what anyone else says. Like, do you guys understand

what I've just gone through? Like you telling me that to be stable and to, to stand my nursing

career because it's safe and it's job security. It's not really job security. If what I went through

couldn't save me from what I've gone through, right? I had to change my mindset from a spirit of

lack to a spirit of abundance, knowing that whatever I put out there in the world and I work for it,

I'm going to attract that, right? You're going to attract the abundance that I'm focused on. Like

when I focus on lack, what you focus on grows. And I just had to shift my mindset and say, I'm not

going to allow my circumstances to define my future. I'm going to take hold of my future because I

do feel that I'm co-creating with God. And we're going to create this together. But it's an

interesting way to look at it because, and listen, one of my favorite episodes we've ever done

with this podcast is with a guy called Rich Climent that talks about the chaos that he had in

his childhood and how that actually benefited his career and what he does and how he kind of moves

through the world now. And actually when you check it, it's like he would never be able to do that

job. Had it not been for this kind of training and being forged in fire. And I think so much about

what you're what you're talking about right now is very, very similar. It's because of where you

came from. It's because of the things that happened to you that you were able to kind of take this

initial step. And I think one of the reasons you've been able to be so successful because it gives

you not just discipline, but it gives you some distance of like through which you can see things

like really clearly. So talk to me about those early days. You make a decision in your head

that you are going to start something that what does it actually look like?

Yes. So I actually started on social media. It was 2014. So Instagram actually was 2013. I'm sorry.

And Instagram was just pictures. And I remember scrolling on Instagram and seeing like these girls

with these beautiful luscious curls. And you know, I have two girls and they were younger at the time

and they have beautiful luscious curls. And I remember like I used to have beautiful luscious

curls. What happened to my curls after like years of like straightening my hair and having so much

heat damage, I went on a mission to figure out how to restore my own curls. But when you make

him product, do you make him just stuff that goes on your hair? I was just making stuff that goes

like my intention was not to start a brand like like this was just out on social media.

Yeah. I was trying to solve a problem for myself. And I'll tell you my initial idea was actually

to create a hair salon. That was like before my else. So I was like, I'm going to create this

hair salon. And that evolved into now figuring out, okay, how do you make these, you know,

different concoctions. And so I started with food products and, you know, putting egg and mayo,

you know, the traditional what your grandmother tells you to like mix together. And I realized that,

you know, I had one incident where I put egg in my hair, I got in the hot shower, the egg cooked

in my hair. And it was like so hard. It was like crumbled egg like scrambled eggs in my hair.

And it was so hard to get out. And so I'm like, okay, this is this is clearly not the right

thing to do. And so again, I'm very self-aware. And I knew that my level of expertise probably

stops here. But I knew that I understood like the science behind, you know, how to properly take

care and maintain your hair. So I said, I want to find a chemist that can help, you know, extract

the ingredients that I have in my head and help me create formulas that will actually work.

And give me the benefits and the desires that I want for my hair without eggs cooking in my hair.

I mean, it's a good way forward. So at this point, okay, you're on social media. Do you remember

how many followers you had? Like, did it start to like track? No, I didn't get a lot of traction

at first. I think people were very confused as to like what I was doing. But what is most people

that were following me, they knew me as like a nurse, a mom, a wife. And here I am posting these

ex-concoctions and showing the actual like demonstration and people are like, what like,

I even got messages like, what are you doing? My husband would even ask like, what are you doing?

What are you putting in your hair? Like he didn't even realize what I was doing at that point.

I don't even think I realized it. And I said, I'm trying to create these products. But I know that

I'm not doing it right. So I want to find the right person to help me like create these formulas.

It's crazy. Yeah. So you call a chemist and you saw making product. Well, it wasn't that easy.

Like I had to call several different chemists and manufacturers.

Where did you even get the like, tell me like, what did you do? Because this is where people

always in a store. It's like, so then I started, you know, can in the drink. So then I started,

you know, like whatever it is. It's like, at what point? Where'd you get the chemist details?

What was the first meeting? How did you, but what did you pay them? Like, give me this like early,

yeah, the information. Yeah. So I found the chemist that I started working with on Google.

Okay. So I would just Google like chemist manufacturing companies facilities. And so I started

with going to manufacturing facilities first. Got it. And that wasn't working because they all

required high minimums. And I couldn't afford that. And so if you wanted to like create and

formulate like one product, the minimum would be like 10,000. And as a new entrepreneur, I couldn't

afford 10,000 just for one product. And then I hadn't tested the market. So I really didn't know

if this product was going to be a hit or not. So I continued to Google continued to like set meetings.

I was traveling to like California, Minnesota, like the places that I knew that had like big

manufacturing facilities that were experts in care care, textured hair. So it can't just be like

a regular manufacturer. I knew exactly the industry that I wanted to work in. And so I was fortunate

enough like after maybe calling 20 different chemists and manufacturers, I was able to find a

very small local chemist in Chicago that they were also up and coming as well. And they were

looking to partner. They wanted to say behind the scenes and they were looking to partner with

someone that understood brand building. Do you? I didn't understand brand building. How did you

convince them you understood brand building? No, but we they took a bet on me like we took a bet

on each other because what did you and you took a bet as well? Because what did you have to pay?

Because again, you're on a necessary at this point. You've got two small kids and a husband.

What did you even decide would be an okay amount to spend on this exploration?

Yeah. So here's what I did. So they have very low minimums. I think their minimums were probably

like 50 at the time. I can't I can't remember exactly right, you know, off the top of my head.

And their costs were very cheap. So I'm thinking the price was maybe three dollars per bottle at

that time. That was doable for me. And they were willing to work with me. So like I don't know if

you do you remember Lowe? We had Lowe, you know, back in the day, my mom was supposed to store and

put our clothes on Lowe. Yeah. That's amazing. So like I would order my products of what I wanted to

produce and formulate. I would make a payment. And then we would make payment arrangements with

them and say, okay, well, you know, we get our paychecks on such and such a day in two weeks. We're

going to pay the remaining balance and then you ship us to order. So it was kind of like

everything was on Lowe. Even down to the website designer, the graphic designer that we were working

with, we had to pay, you know, once we got paid and then pay balances like when we got our paychecks

in the next two weeks. So it was literally like hand to mouth. Yeah. Fast forward me a little bit to

when you start realizing that there starts to be some success. Like when do you know of what is

the moment of lift for you guys? I would say there are a couple of defining moments. One defining

moment was the day that we launched, which was May 23rd, 2014. We literally sold out of every

product that we had. And I probably had maybe like a hundred bottles. And I thought that

inventory amount would last us for a good six months, sold out of everything, you know,

immediately. So that's when I knew that I was on to something. My second defining moment was

about a year and a half later, we got our call to go into retail, which was Sally Beauty was our

first retail partner. And at that time, I have realized and learned because this is a new space

for me, a new industry. But I learned that there was never a new brand that had only been in business

for like a year and a half that was having the opportunity to enter into retail and the tech

should hear a care space. And so because I never focus on going into retail, I really focus on

just building. And they came to me. And that's when I knew that I had something that people wanted to

have a pizza because I was solely focused on building, the saying that goes, you know, if you

build it, they'll come. That was literally like my. Yeah. And you were going to say there's one

other moment. Yeah. And then the other moment was when we actually launched into retail. So we launched

in Sally's and I know it was a defining moment because I would never forget the date. It was February

19, 2016. And we launched and we saw that we only they tested us in like 95 stores because that was

a big test. Yeah, that's a big test. But the demand grew so fast that when we launched the day of

we saw it out in two hours. And when we had, you know, our mavens, our customers going harassing

the store managers and calling Sally's corporate demanding for my ill to have more door count.

That was the other defining moment of like, yeah, I think we've struck goal. You've really did.

So you're three years into the brand at that point. Yeah. What did you and your husband

who's the CEO of the company? What did you guys have to give up? Like I'm trying to understand

the trade-offs because again, you're both working regular jobs for all intents and purposes.

So to get you through that runway between this kind of small launch that you did of a hundred

products through to retailers knocking at your door and then the launch at Sally's. Like what did

that take for you to be able to get there? Yeah. So one of the sacrifices was, you know, we had,

we were used to two incomes. You know, being a nurse, I had a good salary and being an engineer,

he had a great salary and going down from two incomes coming in the household to one because at

that point I had left my job. So you decided I'm all in on this? Yeah, I decided six months after I

launched that, you know, I decided to leave. Fair. There. I mean, it literally is life and death.

It's life. Yes. So I'm like, my job is too serious for me to, you know, try to sacrifice that.

So I decided to walk away from my job so I can solely focus on my own because my own was consuming

so much of my time and my brain power because I was always thinking and creating in my mind of how

do we, you know, attract new customers? So for us, that was the biggest sacrifice in the

beginning was leaving a steady job and narrowing it down to one income. And then from a husband,

when he decided to leave because he still stayed on board for about a year and a half because he's

like, I'm, he really thought that he was going to, you know, stay at, he was working at UPS.

That's right. He's like, I like what you're doing with your head. I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm

going to climb corporate ladder. And he's like, you know, we'll have, you know, my corporate career

to fall back on. And he was working nights. And it came to the point where like, you know,

we were sacrificing sleep and, you know, time with our kids. And there was just no way that we were

able to like operate everything and still work corporate jobs. So he finally decided that he was

going to leave. And we were not paying ourselves at that time either. So how did this actually

impact your personal finances? Oh, it was impacted a lot. Like our personal, we charged up credit

cars. We went into like credit card debt because we still had to like maintain. And, um, you know,

we tapped into our 401ks because our 401ks is kind of like what helps sustain us and got us over

and also help fund a little bit of the business as well too. So we hung on that until we couldn't

hang on for any more. And then once we got the opportunity to go into retail, we started to see

a little bit of profit from our e-commerce platform because our margins were like great because

you're, it's all you. You're not. There's no middleman. So we were able to like use some of those

profits to kind of like sustain us as well too until we got into retail. So when you get into retail,

of course, they cut into your, your profit margins. And then that's when we, you know, got into trouble.

That's when you're going to trouble us. Let's talk about the trouble because before we get to the

glory, we know there's an ugly. The messy, the messy middle, when the naivety is kind of over.

So talk to me about what that looked like because I think that again, we only see the really

glossy part. We look at you now and, you know, incredibly successful family. What did that

time teach you? And what actually happened? Like how? Because I'm assuming at this point,

Monique, you guys, you're quitting your jobs. You clearly know that there's something amazing here.

But at this point, you still don't really have like advisors and people around you like you guys

are making it up as you go along. And when you make it up as you go along, you inevitably make

mistakes. So what did that time look like for you guys? Yeah. So, you know, we, we have one mentor

at that time that we entered into retail, which happened to be our sales broker. So she was

helping to broker their deals and retail. So she was kind of like a guiding angel in the beginning

because she really helped educate us on the industry and retail distribution. What did you find?

So funny story. We found her through one of the beauty supply stores that we were selling it. It

was like a smaller chain beauty supply. And we were selling so quickly out of her store that she

was actually friends with our sales broker. She's not, I say an opportunity. Yeah. And it really

wasn't for her because once you go into retail, it takes away from her business. So this was really

just her genuinely wanting to help. That's so nice. And she said, I have this sales broker that she

understands like distribution, target, salaries, Walmart's of the world. She can really help get you

into these chains. And you know, at the time, I was, I didn't know anything about retail. So I'm just

like, oh, okay, great. Yeah. You know, people always talk a good game. Yeah. And this is sometimes how

we get in our own way because I was blocking that blessing because of my, I'm childhood trauma.

Yeah. Like just not trusting. No, of course. I feel like we were all raised not to trust somebody.

Someone's coming to you with a big golden shiny thing. I'm like, wow, you're a little skeptical. Yeah,

you're like, totally. Everybody can get me into retail at this point. So, okay,

long story. I don't know how it works, right? You don't even understand that to get into a target,

to get into a Walmart that a broker is needed. And it wasn't my goal. It wasn't even my goal at that

time. Like I was like, I'm going to go into retail. You're five. Yes. That was my goal. And so she

asked me about maybe two or three times. Have I, because she gave me your main's number. And she's

like, have you caught her yet? Have you reached out to her? And I'm like, no, not yet. So finally,

my husband, we're all on a call together. And my husband's, and then Chris, you've met my husband.

I mean, he's an executor. He's like, we've got to get stuff done. And he gets on the call. He's

like, you haven't caught this lady that she's been telling you about. I'm like, no, we'll look

it around to it. Like, we don't even know this lady. Like, how do we know that she can do what she

says she can do? So my husband calls her. And she flew in right away. She looked at our analytics

on our backend e-commerce and was blown away by ourselves. And she actually did what the lady said

that she could do. And she was almost like a mentor for you in the end. So she was like a mentor's

that. So she came on board after we, you know, you hired her. Yes. Was she your first hire?

So from, she was our first strategic hire. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Correct. That's unbelievable.

Yeah. All right. So what were the mistakes? Because again, you start to, you're in Sally's,

you start to expand your retail footprint. You're obviously setting through your own direct to

consumer platforms. Yeah. When did he start to kind of go wrong?

Yes. So it went wrong because I think it's important for any founder. You got to know what's

coming in and what's going out. And even though like, that's not, it may not be your lane of expertise.

You got to find the right people that understand that space and that are experts in that space.

And you know, ask a lot of questions and do as much research as you can to have a good

set of understanding of like a little bit about what they do. So they're not like just

blowing smoke over you, right? And that was the error that we made because we had, you know,

our accountant team that was, you know, doing our books as we went into retail and didn't really

understand the space. So you have what you call trade, spin and the retail space. And then you

have your marketing spin. So the accountant that was working on, we didn't have a CFO. We had

an accounting like firm. They were mixing our tradespin and our marketing spend together.

Off. So we thought that we had more money to spend in marketing than what we had because

so you ended up really overspending in marketing. We overspend like a lot. Yeah. Which warps everything,

right? Yeah. For anybody that's listening, this idea because you'll be acquiring customers

really quickly, but it means that everything that you're seeing isn't really true,

because you're overspending to acquire a customer and all of the sudden the whole thing,

like all of your, your data is out of whack, right? Yeah. Our data, our books were trash.

And that's what's so difficult, because again, I think in the early days, I mean, I'm highly

dyslexic. And so the, but my first hire is always an internal finance person, because I don't

know what's happening unless that person is sitting right next to me and, and translating it for me,

because I don't see the numbers and I don't see the patterns in the numbers as quickly as somebody

else might do. But I think that when you outsource that financial, you know, function in the beginning,

you lose touch with it a little bit, right? That distance doesn't help. You need it like close to

you. 100%. And that mean obviously we didn't know that. No, you don't know. And so we were trusting

this firm to manage our books and they were firm. So not only were we clients, but they had many other

clients that they were managing as well. So you also lose that like touch of like being close

to the business, like they're only doing what they're, you know, what they're receiving, but not

digging deeper and asking further questions and not having relationships with the retail partners

and the marketing consultants and team that we were working in. So they're not even being very

thorough and, you know, monitoring our spend. So that's why they ended up booking, you know,

tradespin and marketing together. And so, you know, we realized that, okay, shoot, now we're in

the hole. And now where do we get funding from? And so our next step was we wanted to apply for

our line of credit. So we ended up getting a line of credit from the bank. And again, we used our

line of credit incorrectly as well. We had the line of credit, but not having the right people to

help us understand and manage the line of credit. Does that make sense? Yeah. So now the money that we

were in the hole with marketing, we're still spending, but we're spending and we're pulling from the

line of credit, which is close to marketing expensive money. Yeah, I mean, it's a slippery,

slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. And the line of credit should have been used to hold

inventory. Yeah. So now we're strapped. We have all of this great momentum and the marketing

works, right? Everyone knew about the brand and the brand was like exploding. It was costing us,

we were in the hole. So when you lift up the hood and you look underneath, you're like, whoa,

like this is not good. This is not. Did you ever feel like giving up? Like what's there a moment

where you were like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I can't do this. Absolutely. I feel like

given up at that point, because when we use our line of credit incorrectly, you know this.

Now that banks my lifeline and yeah, oh God, that's not working. And we put our house up.

Yeah. So that's. Oh my God. I had like a sweat best then. Like literally. But the great

thing about it is I can laugh about it now. You're good. So you're going to laugh about it now.

At the time, no, you're again, young parents, you've got this amazing opportunity and it feels

like it's slipping through your fingers. Yeah. And nobody ever say to you like, don't put your

house on the line. No, no one ever said that. Which is so crazy, because I remember like one of

my earliest lessons was don't use your home as collateral. No one ever told us that. Which

she said. And that and for us, that was the only way that we were able to get the line of credit.

Right. Right. We didn't have image. We didn't have assets for them to like lend against. So our

home was our collateral. And so when the banks are knocking at your door and they're calling your

line, do and they're threatening to take your home. That's when I'm like, okay, I don't know if

we're going to make it. If you know, if this business is going to sustain this. And that's how you

know like a good business. Can it sustain under pressure? Can you sustain as a leader under pressure?

It's a huge signal and a huge sign. So how do you get out? Like talk to me about what that looks like.

Yeah. So how so such a interesting story. So my husband and I, we were

pretty desperate. And we were talking to different investors and really just pitching our company

because the company was doing great on the outside. So people were coming to you. Consumers,

not investors. No, not investors. We were pursuing investors because we need it. We were

basically two, three million dollars in the whole. And as an investor, that's not necessarily

attractive, right? No. So we were pitching the bright side and the upside of the country, the

not country company, the future of like what myel could be if you just believe in us and believe

in our vision and believe in us as people. So we ended up talking to this one investment group

that were they were a newer investment friends and family group. They also had experience

in our industry. So we felt some synergy there. And we felt, oh, like you guys know what we what

we've gone through. You know the mistakes that we've made. Like you understand you can feel our

pain because you've been there. And we went through. We'll get there. So we went through at least

six months of diligence with them. And so they finally came back with an offer and they said,

okay, we're going to give you two million dollars, but we want 40% of your company.

Oh, so you didn't do that deal. Absolutely not. But here's but it wasn't because I had the

knowledge to say, no, I'm going to turn my back on this deal. We we wanted to do the deal because

we need it the money to survive. We needed more than two million dollars. And for me when they

presented this deal, it was something in my spirit that didn't sit right. But it was like I'm

fighting against my gut feeling of not wanting to do this deal. But I'm also fighting that we

need the funds. You're desperate. And so they ended up backing out. Thank God. Because they said

this investment. Yes, this investment is too risky. We don't want to just pay for your debt.

We want to invest in growth. And we're not. They shall remain nameless because I want to thank

Phil now. They know who they are. They know who they are. We know who they are. Let's just say that.

But thank God you didn't do that deal because that is what we call like really that would have been

really cheap money for them. Yeah. Oh my God. That would have been devastating for you. So cheap

and actually not even given you the runway to do what you needed to do to get out of the hall.

And that just given me the runway. But also the expertise because I don't even feel like

they were going to end value for like the future of where we want us to go as a brand.

But this is really important money because again, when people take money, often it's

they go out and they raise in a moment of desperation, right? I don't think your situation is

particularly unusual. And so that desperation really starts to cloud judgment. I love that that

female instinct kicked in for you and you were able to say, this is probably not right. And you

procrastinated long enough that you actually put them off. But people don't really

understand what good money looks like. So I'm assuming you eventually found it. And maybe you

can talk a little bit like that because you at some point you did actually go out and raise money.

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So after that deal went south and we did not try to force the deal back open, you know, we,

so we're just gonna have to figure it out. And we went on a quest to talk to different investors.

So what happened was Richelieu Dennis, who was a previous founder of Sundial Brands. He

so shameless for like a billion dollars. He started a fun called new voices and his fun was

solely dedicated to investing in black women. And so I remember I met him in 2015 and we

always just remain friends and very cordial. And I remember having a conversation with him a few

years prior to all of this investment fiasco when he sold and I said, wow, like I want to do what

you've done, but I want to do it even better, right? And he's like, I got you whenever you're ready,

just like conversation. So I remember he said that and I caught him up when we were looking for

investors and I'm like, hey, let's just have a meeting. You know, we want to pitch to you. We're

looking for investors and we pitched to him the same pitch that we gave the previous investors that

turned their back on us. And when we gave our pitch, he like literally looked at us and laughed.

And he was like, your problem, those problems are like been there done that like he really understood

to my point earlier, like he had built a brand. So like the problems that we were going through

sometimes when you are going through things as an entrepreneur, you think you're the only one

that's going through that. Yeah. Right. So it's always refreshing to hear someone has gone

through something similar and they have made it on the other side of that. And he's like, look,

you know, let's have a conversation. You know, I'm interested in investing and come to find out

this is how aligned the story is. The banker that had been threatening us to take our home,

our loan was in workout at that time. The workout guy happened to be college roommates with,

like I can't make this up. He happened to be college roommates with new voices, head of investments.

And so when we had a conversation with him, he's like, I'm going to call someone so like,

I'll call my friend and tell him not to take your home. Exactly. You're like, please,

to name no. That's my friend. Like, I'll let them know where you're going to come.

You know how much of a weight lifted off of us. I can't even imagine, but it shows you

the strength of business relationships, right? Because I always say, you never know where,

like, the help is going to come from. And so look like always be nice people.

That's what you've got to be nice to people. You've got to be nice to people. And you've

got to realize that actually your relationships are going to be in the strangest places.

Like, I've always made friends with the bank, with the factors, with the, you know, it's like

the less sexy people, right? At the end of the day, when push comes to the shop,

that's your network. They're the ones who are making decisions. They're the ones who can really

help you in a bind. They're the ones that have seen it, like all the way down to bankruptcy.

So they actually understand the unlocks. They understand the ways. I mean, that's more of a

relationship factor that happens. But it's like, you need those people. So let's talk about it.

You take an investment. Do you remember how much you raised at that point?

Yes. So he gave us new voices, invested five million.

Okay. For 10 percent. Okay. So not two for 40. Okay. Just saying. Thank you very much.

Yeah. I mean, you see like a difference. And that's why like, you know, sometimes rejection

is our protection because I turned around and had an amazing, better deal, not just on the monetary

side, but also from an experienced side and an infrastructure point of view and it, and somebody

to guide you through what was going to happen next. All right. Now go, we've got better stuff in

your story. So how many raises have you actually done for the company? Yes. So we did a raise.

We did five million for 10 percent in 2020. So we close like right before COVID hit. Thank you.

Gary timing. So in COVID, we saw 4x growth because of that investment. And then at that time,

I told my husband, I said, I think we should go for a raise because we had gone through such

of a struggle trying to raise. And I remember my CFO telling me at that time when we were struggling,

he said, the best time to raise money is when you don't need it because it gives you leverage.

So now we have 4x growth. One second. Let's just rewind that for the people on.

Right. The best time because we spoke about the desperation moment. That's when people can and

we'll just take advantage of you. That is when you don't need the money. And you have leverage.

You have leverage. Yes. And so we became profitable 4x growth. And I said, we should do a raise.

And he's like, are you sure? I'm like, yes, we're going to do a raise because you know, at that

point, I started to see the trajectory of where I wanted to go. And I knew that I wanted to have

an exit. And you know, having mentors like Richelieu and seeing like the process that it took to

have a successful exit, I knew that I wanted to start with private equities to help increase my

value. So you're in learning mode the whole way through this journey, right? And I think that

that's really important because even the way that you speak today, it's like, I knew I needed this.

It's like, I knew I wanted private equity. I knew an exit was on the horizon. I knew like, so

what does that even look like for you? Like, how and who did you learn from on the way out?

I study people. So there can be like a brand or a company that I become super obsessed with.

And I'll study. I'll watch every interview that that person have done. I read every book, every

article that that person has done. And you know, I think I share this in my book. And I think

I told Rich this when he had sold his brand, Sundial, so you know, we were for like a billion six.

I put that on my vision board. And I put my husband and I face over that.

I didn't do that. Because I needed to see it. I said, I didn't know a real vision board. I

shot that guy there. Like, I'm so serious about my business. And so yes, I actually did that.

But that's a skill, right? Like even when you think about this idea, because again, so many people

struggle with finding a mentor. And so many of us don't have access. And so I think that I'm

very similar to you in the fact that I made people my mentors. You didn't even know about

my head. And as a result, I'm going to read everything. I'm going to be your stalker. I'm going

to watch every interview. I'm going to watch the way you speak and the things that you've done.

And I'm going to like dissect them because that is a really important part of it when you don't

have the access. Yeah. And that's exactly what I did. Like I'm a very visual learner.

And so yeah, like Rich was one of my mentors because I studied his playbook and I did have the

opportunity to have access and asked questions and utilize some of his resources. And you know,

I'm proud to say like, you know, and humble enough to say like, I don't know everything.

But one thing I do know is I know how to ask a lot of questions. And sometimes if I don't know

the right questions to ask, sometimes the best thing for me to do is just to sit and observe.

Yeah. And watch everything. Yeah. You don't need to have an opinion. Yeah. Like you don't have

to be the loudest person in the room. You just have to be humble enough to know like, okay,

what can I learn from each person in this room? Because I don't want to be the smartest person

in this room. So he was an instrumental mentor. He introduced us to his investment banker.

And that's what positioned us to do our private equity race. That was a six figure investment.

And you know, at that time, no, I'm sorry, nine figures, nine figures. Yeah. What? Yeah. I'm sorry.

I'm one second. So wait a minute. You did a nine figure investment, nine figure,

for raising five million to raise in a nine figure investment. And please tell me at this

point, are you taking some money off the table? This is not all going straight into the business.

Yeah. So that was the great thing about the leverage that we had was because, you know,

raising a nine figure investment and it was so powerful because I was the first African-American

woman in the textured haircare space to raise that much. And I still maintain majority ownership.

So I didn't even give away, you know, all of my ownership. I still had a lot of leverage.

And because we were so profitable, because you were so profitable, because we were so

profitable. It's so important. It's like you had basically put money in the center of your plans.

You would do a profitable company. And as a result, you were able to go out and do a further

raise on your own terms and take some money off the table. Take that money off the table.

Right. So that's like the really like the kind of important parts.

You take money off the table and you're also increasing the value for your company.

Yeah. So none of the money that we raised from Berkshire went to our balance sheet.

That was all secondary. I mean, first of all, like, what do you feel like in this moment?

Yeah. So, um, you know, we still live in the original house.

Where we still, we still live. No, so you moved out of the house that was going to be taken

from me. No, no, no, I'm sorry. We were still in our original house.

Oh, that's the house that they were trying to take. Yes.

Okay. So you were still there and you get all this money.

Yes. What did you do? What did you do?

I felt like I deserve this. Yeah.

You did because I worked hard for this. I went from the bank shrine to take my house and

threatened, threatened in us for us to be homeless to now taking money off of the table that

was pretty life changing. Like, I felt like I worked hard for it and I earned it.

Well, that's because you did. So I'm glad you felt like that.

And don't nobody tell you any other way. No, no, no, no, no, no.

All right. We know that you work with your husband. And so I want to ask you a little bit about

that because, you know, I work with my husband too. And you're also a mother. And we need to talk

a little bit about that. But on this business journey, you're, you're now in this kind of

beautiful position where you've taken some money off the table. You've de-risked what it is

that you do. And you've kind of paid yourself for this, like,

grueling journey. We sold to PNG 18 months later.

Well, then that's enough. That's where I'm going.

I'm going there because that to me is like, why you are sitting here, PNG,

for anyone who's sitting here thinking, PNG, PNG, Proctor and Gamble,

a one-of-one. We talk about Unilever. We talk about Proctor and Gamble. It's like when you

create a company in this space, you are trying to sell it to one of a handful of people.

Proctor and Gamble being the gold standard. And so I wonder what that looks like for you because

it is such an amazing moment. But it's not an easy moment to transact with a Fortune 500 company

like that and think about what that means on the opposite of your business. So can you just

talk me through? Yes. So when we decided to enter into our process to sell to PNG,

we, again, hired another investment banker that helped prepare, you know, for, you know,

what does the pitch deck look like? You know, what do we need to do to get things in order? How do

we even pitch and have conversations with these strategic companies to get them even interested?

The great thing about PNG was that they were interested. They had been watching us

for a very long time. And that's why when, I tell founders, when you are building a company,

always build it like someone is going to buy you, right? Because you never know who's looking.

So you have to operate like a Fortune 500 company. She's giving us the gym down here. I'm not

brought it down. Like another reason that's the pen and paper time. It's not brought it down.

Build a company. Build a company like you are going to have it acquired, even if that's not your

goal. And what do you mean by that? Like talk to me about how you think about building a company,

like somebody's going to buy it. Yeah. Infrastructure and like systems and processes, you know,

having the right people, like we had to hire C-sweets such as, yeah, such as, you know, a CMO,

like, I mean, of course, like I started the brand with marketing, but I'm not, I didn't go to school

for marketing. I'm not a marketing expert, but I need to build a five-year strategic model.

Yeah. I don't know how to do that, but I want it to learn. Like the people that I hire,

I want to learn from the people that I bring on board. A CFO was extremely important, right?

Because we have to make sure that we've done what that's all to count.

So we definitely had to have a CFO. We had to have a VP of operations. Like those were like some

of the key hires because that was what helped build our infrastructure and prepared us to be ready

for when a PNG came on board. We had to make sure that our manufacturing was solid and we had

multiple manufacturers, not just one because you lose leverage again. You can't, you know, put your

manufacturers against each other to have the best pricing so you can have the best profit for your

company. You know, what's most important when we decided to partner with PNG is understanding like,

you know, does this company also support our vision and where we want to grow as founders

and as a company? And, you know, do we have the opportunities to stay on board to continue

seeing the vision through and not just them?

It's not always important to you because I think that one of the most extraordinary things is that

you remain the CEO of your company. Still to this day. Still to this day, but she's bloody

unusual when you go into a big conglomerate like that because usually there's some lovely Swiss man

from PNG ready to be like, thank you and again. We'll see you later. Love it.

But I think that more often than not, when you get acquired, the original founder isn't always

either fit for purpose or seen by the acquirer as somebody that they want to stay on and stay in

that position. And so I think it's huge credit to you that that's the position that you're in.

And we should talk about that a little bit. But I do love what you said about building the company

to be ready for a potential exit. And that does take a different type of discipline and a different

type of self awareness and knowing that you don't know everything and hiring people that have been

there before that have more credibility, more experience of, you know, will be essentially

friendly to that acquirer, right? Because there's so much that people look at in a business.

Yes, you have to have a profitable company. Yes, you have to have a product pipeline that they

believe in for the next five years or whatever it is. But they're also looking at what is the

makeup of your company? Who's in there? Are we going to have to come into this thing and completely

redo it? Or is there a team that we can rely on to take it into the next few years?

Yeah, we had a well oil engine for them to come on board. For them, it was also them learning from us.

You know, I knew that for me to be a global brand, like I wanted to have people that had a track

record and building brands and maintaining their legacy and globalization, right? And P&G had

the infrastructure that I wanted. Myos to have, right? And what P&G wanted from myo was the

authenticity, the brand equity, the consumers, the innovation and the uniqueness that we brought

to our community that wasn't able to be replicated by anyone else. And so it was a match made,

you know, in heaven, like it was a great partnership. So yes, when I came on board and when we

sat at the table and negotiated, yes, it was me that had the leverage that was able to negotiate

and say, I want to stay on as CEO because I want to see this vision until I'm ready and feel like

you guys have it and you can take it and run with it. And they were okay with that because they saw

value and what I was able to bring to the table. There's so much power and leverage and negotiation

and sitting at the table and saying, like, this is how I want my legacy to be continued. And if you

can't follow and abide by this brand and the magic that we've created, then maybe you're not the

right partner. And is that what you did? And that's exactly what I did. Yeah. So give me an idea

of some of those like hard lines for you. What did you really want in that process and what were

you able to negotiate for yourself in the company? So the first thing was I wanted to negotiate that

I stayed on board as CEO. There was no part of you. Actually, I just want to buy a house in Jamaica

and leave. And then the second thing was I negotiated for our formulas to stay the same. This

is your famous protection clause that you negotiate. Yes. And then for also our manufacturing to

stay the same. So we did not change our manufacturers as well either. And there was no need to us.

It wasn't broke like we don't have to fix anything. And then the third thing was kind of like a

mutual negotiation because I said to them, okay, it's great that you want to acquire us. But what

can you do to support the community that has got me here to this date? And then they came back to

us and said, I see that you guys are really passionate about your community. You have this non-profit

myel cares. We are going to step up and donate $10 million to support your community for brown

and black archipelagoers. I love that. I mean, I know you and your husband. I'm just going to

surprise. First of all, congratulations because I think that's so incredible. A for you to just share

with everybody listening. And also the fact that you were able to align it with your broader goals

as a family because I know that you guys are incredibly philanthropic. And it is just amazing

that you've been able to keep that as a kind of thread even after the sale of the business.

Let's talk about what happened after the acquisition because it wasn't all glory, right? It's like

so the investment bank has essentially do their job. Yes. You the company is acquired by proctor

and gamble. You do remain in as the CEO. And I'm assuming you were able to do the deal that you

wanted to do. Yes. And then it kind of goes a little pear-shaped as we would say in England. It

goes a little sideways. Yeah, I mean, and you know, it's I expected it like I understood. You did?

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, because I've seen like those that have gone before me and you know,

with them doing great things and the backlash. So I knew that it was coming, right? And I said,

I'm going to try to prepare as much as I can and try to be as transparent as I can with my community

because I do care about my community and I care about educating and helping people understand

like the why behind this. And I really wanted people to understand like this is not just a win

for me, but this is a win for all of us. This is a win for women. This is a win for black women.

You know, like less than what is a 1% of women received venture capital funding like so for us

have a step in this direction like this is a win for all women entrepreneurs that are trying to

operate and scale their businesses. And another reason why I wanted to partner with PNG was because

the people that are around the table making these decisions, they were also people that look like

me. They had such a diverse group of people of C suite executives that were key decision makers

that were advocating for PNG to purchase my like just as much as we need. Women archpreneurs,

black women archpreneurs in this space, we also need people on the other side of the table that

look like us that can help tell our story for us when we're not present. And that was something

that was so important to me because I said the next time when a black woman sits down at the

table or when my daughter sits at the table, she's going to have a better opportunity because of

the doors that I've sat down and opened for her to make that path that much easier. So that's why

we have to celebrate it, right? So I tried to do that, but still, you know, people attacked me,

the criticism came and to be honest with you came really heavy. It came heavy. Yeah. I mean,

I think that this was a broader business story. This this then didn't become about, you know,

a black female founder that had done this unbelievable exit. It really came a broader story about

a community that once supported you that essentially felt like you were turning your back on them.

And as a result, really came at you. What do you think that we can do in terms of broadening

our communities understanding? And what have you done? Because I understand like, and I don't

mean this in it, it's not in a defensive way, but I felt like you were having to defend yourself.

Yeah. And you know, and it was easy for me to say, I was like, fuck everyone. Like, what

are you apologizing for? Well, I wouldn't say I was apologetic about it at all because, you know,

again, like, this is my conversations with God. And like, this was something that I prayed on.

Like, I wanted this for me and my family and my community. So I'm going to send 10 toes down

that my decision was a great strategic decision financially and strategically for me to ultimately

recognize the potential of the brand and my legacy. So I'm 100% certain in my decision on that.

I will say that I had to ignore social media for a while. I would say at least for the first

like five days, like, and even now, like, I still don't like read the comments because people still

flutter in every now and then. And I think what was the most hurtful was when we got a text per

saying that our formulas changed and that they were causing, you know, problems with consumers

hair because of the acquisition. And I make any formula changes. We did not make any formula changes.

You really, you did make any formula changes. Yes. No, we did not make any formula changes. And so

that's why I'm like, like, this is coming out of left field. Look, if we would have made

formula changes, just like I told you, we were acquired. I would have been transparent and told

my community that we were changing the formula. Do you feel like it was malicious? Like people were

coming out of the woodwork just to have another thing to say to you. And it wasn't necessarily the

truth of what was happening. I think the person that started that was being malicious. Yeah,

this is my honest opinion, right? And then people come on now, granted, you know, people do have

issues with their hair. And, you know, I empathize with that like I understand that everyone uses

products differently and may have different effects from the products. And I am here to help.

Like, I'm not here to like, pal on and, you know, add to the problem. Like people have to remember

that I created this brand to create a solution for people that look like me that are suffering with

hair issues. So why would I pivot my foundation and what where I started from? Like, that doesn't

make any sense to me. Well, not when it's been going so well. And, and, and, right, it's different.

Different things are going really different. Like, I mean, different when things are really going

badly. You're like, let me change this, but you're like, I'm on a roll. Like, I just need to keep

doing more of what I'm doing. So I had, I like, I did a video. And again, I tried to be very transparent

and explain to people like our formulas have not changed. We are still the same IO that people

purchase before the acquisition. And I'm not saying that women don't have hair issues or they

didn't suffer. But what I am saying is that I am very transparent in our ingredient stories.

And I love what I do. I use the products. My family use the products. Like, there is nothing

that I would ever do to sacrifice the integrity of our ingredients nor will PNG ever do something

like that. Like, if anything, they have become more stringent and making sure that we are delivering

the best effect of products and ingredients. And everything for me has gotten better.

Not worse. I love that you say that. Look, what I really think came out of that situation.

And I give you full credit for it is that there was a hell of a lot more understanding.

Yeah. Because of the messaging that you gave because of the conversations that were happening,

even the heated conversations that were happening. So I actually think out of that became a new level

of understanding of what it takes to build a business, what it means to raise capital,

what it means to have a big acquisition, what happens on the other side. And so I think actually

what happened was net positive when you have hindsight. Yeah. I feel rather you than me.

I do think that people have a much, much, much more open mind to understanding that that was

actually a great thing. And because of you, Monique, there's like literally like a gillian little

girls that are out there and they go, oh my goodness, I could do that. And that's incredible.

On their vision board and cutting my face. Cutting your face out. Absolutely. Here's hoping.

So with three years post acquisition now. Yes. And do you feel like you have a lot to prove?

When you think about the brand, do you think that you've still, but you're still trusted and

there's still something for you to prove? Or are you over that at this point? Yeah. No, I think

that my L is still a very trusted brand. I do feel that I'm still a very trusted founder.

Because again, people know my character and my integrity. And that's something that you can't

fake. No, you can't. So for me, I don't feel that I have to prove anything. All I feel like I have

to do is just keep putting in the work and showing up with integrity when it matters most. Yeah.

I want to talk to you a little bit about the money because I feel like it's so important. I wonder,

first of all, you don't talk about how much money you made. Do you, do you, do you talk,

do you give us a number? You don't hear it from my mouth. Well, here's what I heard for the people

out on the streets. It's a lot. It's, it's better. And actually, like I, I mean, so the people that I

know, they say it was like close to two, not quite two billion, but like in that kind of region.

And she's just smiling at me right now. So we're just going to keep going. Let me tell you something

that I know. I look at you and I'm like, Oh my God, she's out here. She's spending

she's scaper, scaper, scaper, scaper, amazing. I wanted to talk to you about your idea around money

and how you think about money right now because you live like a beautiful lifestyle quite rightly.

And as you should, I wonder has making all this money made you more disciplined around spending

money? Or are you just like comfortable spending bigger? Yeah, my relationship with money is that I

respect money. Like I don't worship it, but I respect it. And money has given me freedom and

opportunity. And I feel that money only amplifies who you truly are. It just has allowed more doors

and more things and more freedom that I can do. And also for me, what I really love the most is that

my kids have the freedom and a different lifestyle than I had growing up. And that is the most

rewarding thing is like they don't have to like figure out what they have to do right now for a job

in a career in their 20s. My 20 year old, she can like really explore and really figure out

what she's truly passionate about. And it's because of the hard work that I have done and the

lifestyle that I have created for them. No, down. I mean, the ability to give your kids a different

life has to be so high on the list. Do you have an investment strategy once you get all this money

in the bank? Yeah, I will tell you the funny thing my husband, I was talking about this. I

didn't realize that actually managing well is a full-time job. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that conversation?

Oh, yeah. Oh, that girl. Like you really have to sit down and have meetings with your team then

and be very strategic on like, you know, where are you putting your money at in the market? What

investments you're investing in? And like we're meeting with our team, you know, they would like to

meet with us weekly if they had it their way. But, you know, we meet with them monthly just to

make sure that we're on the right trajectory and that our investments are going in the right

direction. It's another job. It is an average. Are you involved in it? Like are you the type of

person that is like, I need to be across that? So I'm involved and, you know, I'll be honest with

you. I use AI to help me understand like the language because I mean, I'm not familiar with that.

So I always, you know, I ask a lot of questions and I tell my team like to explain this to me,

like I'm a five-year-old kindergarten. So I can like understand exactly like where our money is going.

Well, there's a mirroring from the early days of your business, right? It's like you don't want to

lose contact. You don't want it happening. Yes, still very close. Yes, that's our team.

Thank God. Yes, thank God. We've learned our lesson. You learned it. No one needs to tell you

that. Absolutely not. That's insanity. It is. When you think about your kids, now you're raising

like very wealthy children. How are you encouraging and thinking about their relationship with money?

Yeah. Well, I first tell my kids that like, you know, we have worked very hard for you guys to

have this lifestyle. But I want you to remember about all me. This is ours. We work for this.

And you have to go out and work for your own. My young is already. We came here. We flew here

commercial. And she has her friends here. So I put her and her friends in an economy.

Just like teacher a little lesson, Humber. You sometimes got to keep them humble. And then I

sat in first class and she's like, you know, I don't want to sit in an economy. I said, I work

to be in this seat. You still have to work to get to where I'm at. So I want to keep my kids

humble. Yeah, you get in the back of that plane and you will be fine. And I mean, of course,

I do believe in reward in them. Like they they have been rewarded. Like they fly private jets

and, you know, they have a lifestyle. But I always remind them and keep them humble. Like

the only reason why you have this is because of the work that we've put in. So in order for you to

sustain this, what work are you going to do or what thing are you going to create? So you can

sustain the lifestyle when you become older. And so my oldest, she has, you know, her own career

path that she's set out on. She's, you know, an amazing full-time content creator and college

student. And so to see her like follow in my footsteps. And like she has this like business. And

she's going to school for marketing. And, you know, because, you know, I am bored and I don't

have a lot to do. We started a new brand called Win Athletics, a new fitness facility. And so now

she's my marketing assistant. So she's assisting with that. So now we're building a whole new family

business as well. So I just want them to see like you can create something in your mind and

actually build it. But more than anything, they watched it as kids, right? They saw it. They saw it.

They saw it firsthand. They would have felt the anxiety of when it wasn't working. And they

would have seen the upsides and they've seen their life change. And they knew their lives before.

And so I think when you watch your mom and dad get up every day and go to work, right? That's

better than anything you can tell them. You're showing them. You have the first seat of like

experience, like one on one, seeing that just before we ignore them completely because your husband

has been a huge part of the success of this brand. And you still, he's still the CEO and your

the CEO of the company. What's that been like actually building this thing together?

Yeah. So I think that working with your husband can be your greatest strength, but also your

greatest challenge. And for us, what works for us is respecting each other's roles and communicating,

you know, always keeping God first and understanding that even though we may have disagreements,

arguments or whatever, that is so my new compared to like the vision and the legacy that we're

creating. So it's like once you focus on like the overall vision, you can quickly come to a

result after, you know, you like get it out, get it out, say what you need to say. And like,

how do we figure and work this thing out? And I think what's most important is that you have to

protect your relationship and your marriage and know that your business is an extension of your

your relationship, but you two are the foundation. No, I mean, it's so beautiful. Every time I see you

look so cute and happy together. Like he knows I'm always right. So that's the

company that you're running today, obviously, it's very, very different from where you started.

I think you have about 300 people in the business. Yeah. A lot of people, what do you think about

in terms of your leadership style and what's have to change, especially post acquisition?

Stopping to steep learning curve. So it hasn't been a steep learning curve because what I've

realized, even with the acquisition is that, you know, not a lot of people are okay with change,

but I think that's the one thing that's inevitable is change. Things are always going to change.

And for me, being a leader has become more about clarity and consistency, even under pressure,

and being able to show up for my team is still make decisions when things are uncertain,

or when things look uncertain for my team, and still being able to empower them to operate in

their gifts and encourage them. Also being okay as a leader that I may have encouraged you,

empowered you, and have taught you different skillsets and talents from working with Mayo,

and you may take those talents and gifts to another company, and that may be a competitor,

and also being okay with that people may leave when they don't get it, and you being okay,

and not cracking under pressure, or not allowing your emotions to distract you, because

when you build your company and you have people, like, it's like a family. So you do have some type

of emotional connection with these people, and unfortunately, like, you can't manage and take

ownership of those people. So I just try to empower them while they're under my leadership,

with the notion of like, I've given you the skills and tools that you need to thrive in any other

environment that you go in, and not being led by emotions, but being led by facts,

and being able to make sound decisions, you know, when my mind is clear. So you've spoken a little

bit about expanding the bond, your own tech, what does that look like, and what's the future?

Yeah, so the future of Mayo is to be not just a haircare company, but tapping into all aspects of

beauty. So from skincare to body care, being like an overall wellness brand that focuses

on a holistic approach to beauty. So more exciting, like, we have some really exciting, like,

skincare body care products that I'm super excited about that we've been working on for the past

like two years now. So still as excited as in the beginning, like, what is your part of the

business that gets you like, you know, keeps you up at night and makes you excited for your job?

Yeah, so I'm like all things marketing and like, create us. So I'm still very excited over,

like innovation and, you know, I love that PNG has allowed me to still continue to lead that

aspect of the business. Do you feel like you have to keep saying to everyone, nothing has changed?

I did at one point, but I no longer do because, you know, the thing is like, people, people that

are set in their ways that aren't going to misunderstand you, no matter what you say, no matter

what you try to do to prove, no matter if you like, take them to the lab and see where you source

ingredients themselves. They will still say, but it wasn't like that last year or you're missing

angry. Like, they're still going to say that. So I'm like, I, I'm no longer addressing it. Like,

that can't be your job. Yeah, like, I have to use my energy in places that really matter.

Yeah, you did. What kind of impact do you hope your success has for other founders? I want

to say, once the little girl and me that was hoping and wishing for someone that looked like me to

just give them inspiration. It's a lot of fire inside of them to say, you know what? You know,

you have a dream and you can go out there and accomplish your dreams. You can go out there and

be a world changer and create something and innovate and do something magnificent that the

community and the people that are assigned to your destiny is going to thank you for. I feel

like you're no doubt doing that. I hope so. Absolutely. You are. What do you still aspire to? I still

aspire to be disruptive and to challenge myself to tackle and enter into spaces that may be deemed

impossible. And so I aspire to disrupt the fitness industry with our new brand,

win athletics. I'm going to take you to some rapid fire. I'm the worst at rapid fire because

everyone knows I'm so long-winded. So we'll see how rapid they are. All right, rapid fire questions.

What is one hair product that you never travel without? My rosemary mint oil. What's something you

never feel guilty about spending money on? I never feel guilty about spending money on my kids.

Are you a morning person or a night owl? I am definitely a morning person. What time are you

off in the morning? I am up at like six a.m. What is the book that changed your life? A book that

changed my life is honestly the Bible. That'll change. Yeah, the book of Proverbs, a book of wisdom.

Amazing. Thank you, my darling. This was heavenly. Yeah, thank you. This is so great.

If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favourite listening platform.

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with a friend who will be so grateful. Aspire with Immigread is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host

Executive Producer Ashley McShane Derek Brown and me are Executive producers from Odyssey,

Leary Stennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Lagrasso, Producer K.K. Sublime, Steven Key is our senior producer,

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Original Music by Charles Black, Video Production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele,

and Collar Stelgado, Social Media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Baal. Special thanks to

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Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meakall, Sean Cherry and Lauren

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