From Command and Control to Serve and Support, with Marisol Bello

Hey, it's Dave from Coaching for Leaders. Today, I'm sharing a chat about how to move

from command and control to serve and support. I talked recently with one of our Academy

graduates, Marisol Beo, to talk about what she did to make this shift. Here's our chat.

I'm here today talking with one of our Academy Lums, Marisol Beo. She is the Executive Director

of the Housing Narrative Lab. Marisol, so wonderful to talk with you today. Welcome.

Thank you so much. Dave, I am so excited and honored to be here with you. Truly, I never

thought I'd be joining you on an episode of the show. So excited to be here.

The feeling is mutual. I've been looking forward to our conversation so much because of all the

things that you have done and in your own work and in your own leadership. Of course, just as

importantly, if not more so, the work you're doing in the community and for the world. To that point,

I'd love if maybe we could start this conversation by saying a little bit about just your role and

the work that the Housing Narrative Lab does because it's it's so powerful. Could you share a

bit about it? Yeah, thank you, Dave. So I am a former journalist, turned strategic communicator,

turned narrative strategist and researcher, turned executive director. And as executive

director, I lead the Housing Narrative Lab. And we are a research driven organization that

works to build public understanding and support for the housing solutions that make our communities

safe, healthy and thriving, all the things that we want in our communities and in the neighborhoods

where we live. And we combine narrative research with people focused storytelling. We translate our

narrative insights into actionable guidance. And we create and share stories across media and

pop culture. Thank you so much for the work that you and your team are doing. As I think most people

would appreciate, it's such an important need in the world, especially right now with all the

uncertainty in government and funding and so many places. And advancing that narrative has

narrative has become so much more critical in the last year or two. And I'm so grateful for you

and your team and all the work that you do. Thank you, Dave. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

We're working hard at doing this work. Yeah, you are. And and maybe that's even

allied into how you stumbled across across the podcast because you found the podcast at one

point. Do you recall how you came across it? Yes. So the first thing I'll say is that I love podcasts.

I'm one of those folks, right? I listened to podcasts for news, for stories to learn about

birds, to practice my Spanish. And and I was in this moment where I really wanted to and needed to

to think about how is going to be a stronger leader. And I I recognize that, but I didn't know

exactly what that meant for me. And so of course, I turned to podcasts. And I came across

your podcasts and really specifically came across an episode that you had with Marshall Goldsmith.

And what I will tell you is, and you have probably heard this a million-gajillion times,

but that episode was a leadership class, a framework for leadership in 40 minutes or less. And

it was so powerful. There were so many lessons there that applied directly to both where I was

and who I was as a leader and where I was at that specific moment in time. Everything from

what you both identified as the being the achiever and then becoming a leader. The idea of

winning too much. There were there was so much packed in that episode. And it was from there

that I started listening to so many other episodes. And shortly thereafter, you were launching a

new Academy class. And so that was how I stumbled on the Academy. It was kind of kismet because I

listened to a series of your episodes of the episodes. And then within I don't even remember

within the month, you were launching a new Academy class. Oh, and that's what that's where

how you and I got connected then. And what is it that had you decide to apply and what did you

hope to get from the Academy? So, you know, I mentioned that I wanted, I was thinking about wanting to

be a stronger leader and what, what that meant, right? I mean, so first, right, thinking about what

is a leader, right? And going from a cheever to leader, going from liking to win, right? So,

that even applied to where I was at that moment. How am I going to be an achiever as an executive

director and an achiever as a leader? But the reality was, Dave, that I wasn't really sure what

that meant, you know, I was leading this new organization and and thinking about and trying to

figure out how to develop a new culture for it. So, we were this early organization and we had

to use a metaphor and we'd cleared 10,000 feet and the seatbell sign had come off and we were

still hitting clouds, right? And I wanted to figure out how do I help navigate us through the clouds?

How do I navigate different styles of work and communication in a small organization? How do I

navigate us through big changes? But I didn't have a roadmap then and I knew I needed to develop

one and I was developing it. As I went, I didn't really have a leadership mentor and so I was

looking for all of that and I was looking for that on my own and that was what I was looking for

and hoping for in the academy. That was what I was looking to find in the academy. You and I have

talked a lot about or we've talked previously about that idea of mentors and I will say that when

I was a journalist, especially in my early days as a journalist, I had mentors who were journalists

who helped me become a better writer and a better interviewer. But I will say once I became a

manager and then later certainly as an executive director, that was that was not a thing that didn't

exist and I was looking to find something like that in the academy. You came in with thinking a lot

about that. I think of that analogy of like the roadmap and figuring out like what that looks like

and one of the things you shared with me is that being a trusted leader and having that calm

in the midst of a lot of chaotic things happening around you, which of course in the world,

there's been a lot of that in the nonprofit world especially in the last year or two.

Where did you hope to go with that as far as creating some more of that calm in the midst of chaos?

The first thing I will say before we do anything else is I will say the academy was hard.

I had this big picture, that idea of I wanted to be a leader trusted by my team,

someone who leads with curiosity and grace and calm, especially in strategy, especially in chaos.

But the academy was hard because I had this big vision but I wasn't really sure what that meant

in practice. What that meant tangibly and that a lot of it was internal work.

It was truly about how I was putting this into practice by being aware of myself and being aware

of how I was showing up. What my strengths were. That was actually one of the great things we,

we, one of the first exercises we did was looking at what our strengths was and leading

through those strengths and that was so helpful for me to identify the strengths.

But I really needed to figure out how to put that in practice because one of my strengths

is context and big picture and then the tangible right and making it so was where I really needed

to to kind of work through but that was internal and that's what made it. That was what made it

so hard and so the great thing about the academy is that the academy through the work that we were

doing wasn't about you are going to be a great big trusted leader. All the things right it was really

okay well how what can you do in five minutes? What could be one practice and and that was a

powerful thing right? So I remember one of the first my very first focus area was about strengthening

my relationship with our deputy director. You know where we are small org so we are the leadership

team and the strength of our relationship is really the foundation of the organization it represents

it actually represents the organizational culture that we wanted to to grow and and develop

and so it meant working through what our roles were in our relationship and within the team

down to how we communicated with each other and provide feedback and receive feedback and it was

in all of those pieces where the academy really helps me to kind of practice and think those things

I so appreciate you sharing that and I've got two things I'm really curious about on that one

of them is I thank you for saying this was hard because I boy I sure wish Mercer I think both of

us do like there'd be a way to get better and shifted our behavior and become a better leader and

it not be hard and none of us want to do something hard or struggle with something that doesn't have

purpose behind it that said struggle and something being hard and pushing ourselves if there's purpose

behind it to make us better yes to that all day long right and like as long as we're making traction

and we're moving on it and you looked at this and said hey okay this is hard I've got to think

through some stuff and I've got to think through first of all me and how I think about myself

and your willingness to do that was huge and you hit on something else that I think is really key in

that a lot of us have that sense of like what we want it to look like the big picture the you

know how we want to show up as a leader and then we enter into our day and we think well okay where

do I start like what's the practical actual beginning point of I'm going to walk into this next

interaction this next meeting in your case the next conversation with your deputy director and

thinking like all right how do I get to this like two to three year thing I'm thinking about it

where I want to go in this long road map and where do I actually begin with it and so much of it

comes down to starting small and so the second thing I'm curious about is you you were thinking

about that I remember you telling us about struggling with that and thinking about that where did

you ultimately decide to start as far as just that small five minute practical thing that helped

you to start moving in that direction the first one was a variation of the conversation that

you had with Marshall Goldsmith which was the stop breathe and is it worth it and and I think I

translated that first commitment and focus to be about pausing and listening right before I spoke

right I think there's a tendency that we have about wanting to add value and do a lot of the

what you call command and control right all of those pieces of the leader jumping in and for me

it was every conversation before I spoke I was going to pause and just stop and breathe

I will just be totally frank I did not do it 100% of the time it did not work 100% of the time

but I had a little post it note that I will tell you it's still on my desk it is this yellow

posted note with light blue marker and it says stop breathe listen and again sometimes you know

you jump in and you have to kind of remember but that was that was how I started right and I will

say that for me that was really valuable because one of the key things I learned from our cohort

we talked a lot about this was that our whispers sound like yells and then our suggestions sound

like orders and who is that real and that is so true but for someone who is a creative and a

writer and someone who loves to brainstorm and riff I had to learn to do that differently and

what I learned during so many of the conversations with the cohort and the work through my

commitment and the focus areas was really recognizing that my my what I thought were

brainstorms and riffs folks took to be orders and that if I shifted or changed the brainstorm or

the riff they were stuck because now they thought what is she talking about she said let's do this

now she's saying let's do that but in my mind I was just sort of like let's just get some vibes

let's get some juices flowing and because of where I sat folks were not recognizing that and that

was a great piece of the learning that came from the started with the separate listen all the way

through the reason you have to do that is because when you open your mouth as the executive director

or as the leader folks are automatically taking whatever you say as an order it sounds like a yell

yeah boy it's it's so true and I've had so many times I've seen that happen and I've run into

that myself there's so in my work too and I think how interesting first of all could I say the

thing I think you already know but for everyone else we so many of us who listen to this show me

included like our very high achieving kind of folks and we want to we set the bar high for ourselves

we have high expectations for others but perhaps we have the highest expectations for ourselves

and we want to do something a hundred percent like when we commit to doing it and getting better

we want to do it a hundred percent and never in the entire time I've been doing this either myself

or anyone else do we achieve a hundred percent on anything and it's a process right like it's like

okay if I'm doing this 23% now and I get to the place where I'm doing it 55% 62% that's huge as far

as progress and you really leaned in on that like just because you didn't get a hundred percent you

really took the invitation to just start and try it out and I think that's so cool that you did

that and the other thing that I think's really interesting from what you said is you had this really

wonderful and beautiful intention to show up and servant support in this role in this emerging

organization of like clear in the 10,000 foot level the seatbelt science coming off right like I

thinking about that analogy and yet despite that great intention the actual impact that people

were experiencing was command and control because of how you were showing up to them in those

conversations and it's just like it's such a reminder to me that sometimes that intent that good

intention we have shows up so differently for others doesn't oh absolutely and it actually you

know one of the things that it has made me realize is a couple of things first again because we are

smaller organization I tend not to jump in anymore right away I lead with a lot more questions

than statements and the other one again because we are an organization that is research driven

and also creative and we are a storytelling organization as well it means that we brainstorm a

lot it means that we take risks that we are trying new things and if I jump in too soon or too

early it becomes ah that's what we're going to do and that's the direction we're going to move in

and it stops conversation a lot faster than I mean it to be so I tend now to really kind of hang

back and when I do jump in it's more tell me more I'm curious about this I still do the brainstorm

because I need the I need other people to brainstorm with I love I love the process of brainstorming

but now I realize I have to do it maybe in smaller groups maybe not the whole group as a whole

or I really have to be really intentional to name even just to name it let's brainstorm for a

second I'm wondering what about XYZ and for me I know things are working when I say I wonder

what about XYZ and someone on my team says yeah no Marisol let's how about this I can't

just say but can we think about this and say and to me that that means yay right because we are

creating the culture that I've been wanting to create all along where we are really kind of it's

giving and taking and not that command and control let it means that I've had to shift how I use my

voice yeah yeah indeed Marisol thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us and

more importantly thank you so much for the work you and your team are doing to support so many people

in our communities I'm so grateful for both thank you so much Dave I had been such a pleasure and

a delight to spend on this time talking with you thank you likewise a while back I had Vanessa

Bonds on the podcast who's the author of the book you have more influence than you think she made

this point a powerful person's whisper can sound more like a shout a lot of us don't think about

ourselves as powerful people particularly because we often think about powers only a negative thing

but the reality is for most people who listen to this podcast since the vast majority of us lead or

manage in some way is that we do have power at least in the venue where we lead and that means

that how we show up even a small shift that might not seem like a big difference to us

can make a massive difference to those we lead one of our fellows Jess Britt reminded me recently

that sometimes the meeting we've not been looking for to be that is the one meeting where someone

more junior in the organization has been prepping for for weeks because it's the one chance that

they've had recently to get interaction with senior leadership and to learn from them and

maybe even have a chance to shine so I'm so proud of Marisol for being so willing to examine

the patterns that had worked so well in her career for so long but now at the inflection point

of being an executive director we're going to require her to shift on just a bit the need to make

shifts almost always shows up at inflection points maybe it's taking on a big new leadership

role or it's preparing for an upcoming transition into a role or maybe it's taking on a new team

or an initiative and sometimes it's after getting some feedback about what's not working anymore

it's doable to make those shifts by yourself but it's so much easier and more successful with

support the coaching for leaders academy provides structured group coaching all led personally by

me to help leaders thrive at key inflection points the academy is now open for applications and if

you are at an inflection point right now I'm inviting you to apply to join in with us go over

to coachingforleaders.com slash academy in order to do so applications are open now but only

until the end of the day on friday march 20th so be sure to visit before then on that academy page

you're going to find out more from our graduates see the five steps of how the academy works

and he can dig in on all the frequently asked questions of how things come together the coaching

for leaders academy helps leaders thrive at key inflection points head over to coachingforleaders.com

slash academy for more and remember that applications are only open until friday march 20th

thanks as always for listening in and watch for the next episode coming this Monday