From Homosexuality to Wife + Kids: Jeff Johnson Testimony

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Hey guys, welcome to the show.

I have a special guest today, Jeff Johnson.

And he has an amazing story of how God

saves him out of homosexuality.

And there's a big twist at the end of this episode.

So make sure you watch to the end.

And I'm excited to hear his full story.

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I am just the lightning rod and who is the saucepan?

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Welcome, Jeff Johnson.

Hey, thank you so much.

I'm so honored to get to talk to you today and be on.

It's awesome.

I'm glad to have you on and you're coming.

Where are you in Georgia?

In Atlanta, Atlanta, ATL.

That's right.

Been here 10 years.

Yes, so you have an amazing story.

And in the intro, I mentioned that there's

going to be a twist at the end.

We're going to talk about what we're not going to reveal that.

Oh, I like that.

I like that.

I want to know the twist.

So first, let's start off with where did you grow up?

Yeah, I grew up in Texas.

A lot of I was born in Dallas, Texas.

Family from West Texas, like small towns, West Texas.

It's been a lot of time there.

But my family, when I was very early,

we moved to Las Cruces, New Mexico.

So New Mexico is a lot of people when they're like, where are you

from?

I'm like, New Mexico.

And they're like, oh, Mexico.

No, New Mexico is actually a state.

Like, no one else is ever from New Mexico.

No, it's the new version of Mexico.

It's the new one.

Yes, it's like next to Texas.

So Las Cruces, the south end of New Mexico,

I grew up there, went to, you know, started elementary school,

middle school, high school there, is a home base for me.

And so what happened?

How old were you when you were a kid?

When you started to realize you were same-sex attracted?

Yeah.

It's interesting because as far back as I can remember,

that was how I thought.

There was, I had a kind of a moment in my childhood

that something that, you know, I've done therapy for it

and kind of try to figure out, there was something

happened with like a neighbor friend that wasn't.

He was older than me, but we were playing together,

and it turned sexual, and there was, and that is a memory

that began, like triggered something in me,

that just began this process for me of, back then,

it was just shame.

Like it began as shame and hiding and terrified,

and started my mind thinking, looking at guys.

But I was, I mean, I was very young.

Like, I've tried to figure that out like five, six,

like very, very young when this all was happening.

And I just remembered all throughout like elementary school,

like there was, there were moments that I was like very,

I was very like attracted, I was more attracted to my friends,

and dads than, and I remember thinking that,

and being really guilty for that, feeling guilt for that.

And so I had a moment that later in,

later in, I don't know if it was like fifth grade,

when I actually told my mom, like I went to my mom

and told her like, hey, this is something that happened

in this tree house with our neighbor

and kind of recounted all that,

because I was just full of guilt as a kid.

And so I recounted all that with her,

and that's where the first, like I told her,

this is what I'm feeling and shame,

and I didn't know how to put words around it,

but I was just telling her the experience.

And that, but that was a very pivotal part of my whole story

when I was very young of how this all kind of transpired

and how my mind started working.

So yeah, that was, that was very early in my life.

It's interesting, you say that,

that just reminds me of something,

I have to tell the story, because it just happened yesterday.

I, as many people know, and I wrote about this in my book,

I was molested by my friend's father

when I spent the night at his house

when I was nine years old, and I, I mean, it was,

that event has affected my whole life.

Bram, but I hadn't been able to get a hold of my friend.

I, after I got saved, I wanted to get a hold of him and tell him.

I don't know, I just felt this kind of burden to tell him what happened.

And I could never reach him because he's not on social media

for whatever reason.

And let's just call him Tommy.

I'm gonna use the name Tommy.

So yesterday, I was thinking,

the thought of him came into my mind.

His father's dead now.

His father died.

Okay.

Like 30 years ago, but Tommy came into my mind yesterday

and I was like, gosh, I really want to talk to him.

I want to tell him what happened.

And so I've just Googled his day.

I typed in his name and his, and Dallas,

and his phone number popped up.

His cell number.

And I, I was like, wait, that's interesting.

Is this real?

And I, I called the number,

he didn't answer it first.

And then I called right back and he answered.

And I said, Tommy, is this Tommy from Dallas,

from Jesuit and blah, blah, blah?

And he's like, yeah.

And he, he had no idea who I was and what was going on.

I'm like, it's Beckett from Jesuit.

Yes.

Oh, he's like, hey, Beckett, how's it going?

And I'm like, good.

It was, okay, so telling him this was the most awkward thing

I've ever had.

Yeah, it's like, how do you lead into that?

It's like, how do you lead into this?

And so I bless.

Yes.

So I said, you know, first I talked about, you know,

how I became a Christian 16 years ago.

And like, my life has, you know, been radically changed.

And he was sort of like, I could tell he wasn't a Christian.

But he was tracking with me.

And then I, I said, well, and I want to tell you something

that happened when I was a kid with, when I spent the night at your house.

Your dad molested me.

And he was like, oh, and he goes, and he said, why didn't you call the cops?

I'm like, what?

Yeah, you're like, that wasn't my first thought on that.

I was like, well, I mean, I don't know.

But like, you know, I was too young to think about that.

But, um, and then he, you know, basically, I was like,

yeah, if I had told my dad about it at the time,

my dad would have killed your dad or had your dad killed.

Because my dad was a lawyer and he had like, he had clients who would have killed him.

Literally killed us.

Yes.

Yes.

And so, um, he was like, he was basically on my side.

He was all for it.

He was like, yeah, he should have done it.

Like, he should have, like, he deserved it.

If he did that to you.

And then I asked Tommy, I was like, did he do anything with you?

And he's like, no.

And, and so, um, it was so weird.

It was kind of like, I feel like it was almost like the last piece of the puzzle.

Kind of just letting that, letting him know that information.

So it's like, like, out of me.

And like, he knows now.

Yes.

And anyway, it just felt like, like a huge relief when after I told him.

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.

So like, for you, that just felt like relief of like, it's out there.

It wasn't necessarily his response that mattered as much as you just being able to say this.

Yeah.

Like, I needed to say it to him.

And then I told him after I revealed this thing, huge thing.

I told him about how I got saved.

I told him the whole story.

And then I told him about the gospel.

And I said, you know, I really, I said, Tommy, like, this is the most important thing in the universe.

Like you having a relationship with Christ.

Is he a believer?

He's not a believer.

No, I don't think, I don't think, no, he's not.

But, um, but he did say, I said, you please, I urge you to read, to get a Bible.

And he's like, oh, I have a Bible at home.

And I was like, oh, good.

Like, read John and the book of Acts or something.

And I said, and get my book.

Because you're, I write about your dad in my book.

Um, I don't name him, but I write about him.

Right.

And so anyway, um, he, I, it turns out he, he's married and he has two kids.

And I was like, yeah, that's one of the reasons I wanted to, I've been wanting to get a hold of you.

Because I wanted to make sure that you were protecting your kids from your dad.

Um, so anyway, all that to say is just was like a huge deal.

That is a, that is a huge piece of the puzzle of your life.

Like to be able to do that.

And that's, that's crazy.

I wanted to do it with his dad, but uh, his dad, you know, I died 30 years ago.

So he was, by the time, when I got, after I got saved, I found out his dad was dead.

So there was no way for me to, to have that conversation.

Yes.

Right.

Right.

But man, anyway, for him to go to bed last night thinking about him.

But I told him, I said, I told him, I said, I, I have forgiven your father.

And like, you know, it's no longer, I don't hold anything against him.

Um, that's awesome.

But anyway, it was crazy, crazy.

But anyway, let's get back to you.

We'll be right back after this short break.

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Because this moment matters.

So what happened in high school in college,

you started to kind of live this double life.

I was doing the same thing in high school and college,

living a double life.

Talk about that and how you were pursuing sexual encounters and stuff.

It was not, I didn't act out in this until my freshman year in high school.

I became good friends with a guy and at a sleepover.

It just turned sexual.

And I entered into this like was a very valid relationship.

But I didn't have words around that.

I was just, you know, enjoying his company.

And we were acting out in this and that was through high school.

And you know, and when you're doing that in high school,

and there's no words around it and you don't talk about it,

but it's just an encounter and it's just like sexual.

It leaves you kind of feeling crazy on like not really thinking it's a relationship.

But then like we ended up, it was weird at the end.

We kind of went, he was another year older and he went on to college.

And I just felt like heartbroken and I was like,

now I kind of am able to claim what that was.

Like yeah, it was heartbreak.

It was a relationship that needed to have some closure and ending.

But in the moment it just felt very messy and no one knew.

Like this was very much like, it wasn't known.

I never was like living at open gay lifestyle.

It was, I would never have called myself that.

It just was all behind closed doors hidden secrecy.

And so then I go off to college and kind of just went to college.

And I went to Texas Tech University and Lubbock, Texas,

full of farmers and just a country guy.

It felt like the right place for me to fit in.

And so I go there and I was in my head was like I'm starting over.

Like I want to start completely over.

I don't want to continue that way of living.

And I had grown up going to church.

So there was an element of God in my story.

But it was very much religion of just going to church.

It was not relationship at all.

But I still tried to withhold the good moral standings of what a Christian.

What I believe the Christian should do and act like.

And at this point, you know, it's this topic is definitely not discussed in the church.

Back then, especially.

And so like I didn't have any kind of guard.

I didn't have any kind of teaching or discipleship around us.

So like then I'm in college.

I went on a music scholarship.

I'm a singer.

So I went on a vocal scholarship.

And I was just embarrassed to like be inquire and do the vocal thing there.

Because I didn't.

I, you know, I had wrestling my whole life.

I'm not a sports guy.

I did not fit in that crowd.

And so I just wanted to start over and be like, hey, I'll try to pledge a fraternity

and try to like hang with guys and like recreate my identity here at college.

Well, that quickly fell short.

And I started acting out with guys in college.

And that happened for a couple, you know,

for freshmen and sophomore or junior year.

Again, all secret, all behind closed doors, sneaking around.

Nothing ever talked about in the light.

It was my junior year of college.

I went to a college like a collegiate conference called Passion.

It was something that like I had heard a lot about.

And so it's like this massive gathering of thousands of college students gathering to worship

and listen to people talk about Jesus.

I got invited.

So I went.

And I show up at this conference, a few thousand people in Austin, Texas in 1998.

And so I go to this conference and the person preaching this man, Louis Giglio, is giving the gospel.

And I'm just, it was as if my eyes were open for the first time.

Again, I grew up in church, but it was the difference of knowing about God and knowing him

was what was happening in that those days, those few days of this conference.

Yeah, it's like that.

What's the old, what's the old line about from here to here?

It's like a really mild heart.

Yeah.

Yes.

Whatever.

I can't remember the exact quote.

Yes.

It was all making sense clicking.

And I was just like at my life.

I was like, I'm surrendering my life.

Like I lay everything down.

And in that time, I was like, I'm never going to act out.

And in any of my same six desires again.

And you know, making all these promises to God, like, I'm not going to do it.

I'm going to leave here.

And then in.

And again, left that conference and started living a completely different life as far as like my relationship with Jesus.

Like I'm like reading the Bible and like knowing him and like all about surrendering my life to him.

But quickly, my, my desires overtook again.

And I started acting out.

So like it began another whole process of.

Of the acting out that I began once again.

Once again.

So it just became again another thing of fighting my battle.

But now Jesus was in the mix.

And I had something.

And I always say like my desires didn't change, but my allegiance to Jesus changed.

So I was, I had a reason to fight it.

It was there was a reason for me to fight it because I.

I never, you know, my experience was I never woke up the next morning after acting out in this.

And felt like, yay, like I, you know, I feel good.

It was always the next morning, shame and secrecy and hiding.

And I had become so used to that that I started just living that life like that narrative of I can have two lives.

I can have this life over here that no one knows about.

And then I can like do this thing over here and like whatever that is my job.

You know, my normal life that people know me for, but they don't know that side of me.

And so I began walking that out like that.

That it my roads diverse in two different ways.

And so that happened when I left college.

I moved to Dallas.

I went to Dallas and took a corporate job for a few years working for a company Accenture as a consultant.

I traveled with Accenture and in love my job.

But then I felt the Lord just like bringing me into ministry like calling me into.

I was very passionate about music my whole life.

I love singing.

I loved a songwriting and so that I was very much something that was part of my life.

But then I just there was a point when I turned 25 I was like I'm going to leave my corporate job and pursue like being a worship leader.

And and I did that.

And so then I left my job.

I started leading worship.

I got a band together and we started traveling leading worship.

Now I'm a worship leader battling this desire still hiding in secrecy on the side.

But wait, let me hold on one second before you get to that.

We go back to after the passion conference.

It's right in Austin.

What happened?

Did you go back to college and like get plugged into a church there?

Yes.

That's a great point.

Great point.

Yeah.

I went back for my senior year.

I started going to an awesome church in Lubbock, Texas.

And I started I started playing piano.

Like I was like I'll I'll play piano here in the praise team.

That time, you know, started playing for them and really loved it and got to meet some great people.

And my senior year was definitely different because of everything that had happened at this conference in my relationship with Jesus now.

So it was different.

And I was like playing music in church and like trying to find my place and my footing within the church on how I could serve the church with the giftings that I had was singing and playing piano and guitar.

That was like where I, yeah, that's that began that whole journey.

And so while you were in this church, no one knew that you were struggling with this other thing.

No one.

And did your, did your family ever know like when did?

Yeah, not the family, you know, going back to my story a little bit like from my childhood when I told my mom when I was little about like kind of my like confessing some of my desires and I was a little younger.

You know, I was when I win that happened.

I say this with a lot of tend tenderness and love because my parents were amazing.

My parents had both passed away in the last three years and I was very close to them and love them.

And I always say, you know, my parents didn't have any training in this.

They have no idea what to do when their son comes in and says, hey, these are my desires.

Like my parents came from like their parents were farmers and truck drivers like I understand this is not on your radar.

But we went to my the answer in that was we went, they took me to a pastor and had me journal what I was thinking with this pastor that I had no relationship with and did not know.

And I just remember feeling really awkward like this is so weird. I'm like writing out thoughts, but I'm not, but then he was again to read this and like.

And it was I just remember that being so awkward and from then on we never talked about it.

So it was like a couple weeks of seeing this pastor and then that shut down nothing else that solved it.

And we just kept walking through life.

And yeah, and you know, then then I find myself later in life, you know, my senior year in college, like I'm in church doing this.

But no, to answer your question, no one knew not my I wasn't talking about with my parents.

I wasn't talking about with anyone.

It was truly just all hidden in secret.

And so, okay, so go back to you.

You're pursuing ministry, music ministry and what talks about what's what's going on in that situation.

Yeah, and so I start, you know, I leave my corporate job and start writing songs for the church.

I'm now traveling with the worship team with the worship band that I put together and they were like some of my best friends.

And there was in this season, there is a girl that starts that that through church, this girl named Jordan, like starts our pastor introduced us.

And was like, you both lead worship, she's a worship leader, your worship leader, you all should like lead worship together and get to know each other.

And he had obvious plans, but that was not on really on my radar.

Obviously, like I wasn't thinking about that.

So we started singing together and started like leading worship together at a church in Dallas.

And then I love, love being with her. She was so fun.

She like became like my best friend. So I was like, this is amazing. Like we're doing this together.

And then we started traveling together. Like I would bring her with us on the road and we'd go travel only worship together.

And so that's what we started doing, you know, when I was in my 20s.

And through that, it became a thing where we actually started dating.

And she, we kind of talked about, you know, being interested in each other.

And in my mind, I'm just thinking like, yeah, we can hang out and be together.

But, you know, I didn't have marriage on my radar. I didn't have kids on my radar that was not.

That was not something that I had thought about given my life story, like that no one knew.

So that was not on the radar.

And so we started dating. We started hanging out. We started dating and being together a lot.

And ended up having over the journey, we had a 10 year dating history.

So we broke up three times through this whole process.

And so the first time we'd break up and it would be like, well, yeah, we're just a lot of excuses.

We're just not, you know, meant for each other. That's fine.

But then our worlds were still very much intertwined. And we would still see each other and leave worship.

And then we broke up again.

And the third time, well, the second time we broke up, we were talking about, we were going through like a book together.

And she, one of the questions in the book that we were walking through together said,

something about like something about your past, like as a in your childhood, did anything happen or something that triggered me.

And her knowing me so well, this time she was like, it seems like there's something there to which I was probably in that moment very silent and just like not saying anything.

And she was very gracious in the fact that she didn't press me in that moment, but she did say, I'm going to give you a few days.

And then we're going to come back together and I want to hear what it is.

And so I want you to take time when you take space, but then I want to hear what it is. And I want you to tell me.

So then for those few days, I was panicked of thinking, I really love hanging out with this girl.

But I'm, but how in the world would this work if I told her what it truly is? I just knew the story.

I wrote the narrative in my head, like if I tell her, she's going to leave, like she's going to think it's gross, she's going to think that that's so weird.

And so we met a few days later, we met at this really special place for us in Dallas. And now it's really special.

And we sat down and it was, you know, through a lot of what place was it? I mean, a grip of Dallas was. Yeah, it's in lost cleanness.

Oh, okay. I don't know. I don't know how to clean it so well. There's like this, like, little, like, rip, like, little pond in the middle of all these office complex and stuff like a, like, a pond with like a, a, a dock around it.

And like, for some reason, we found her. So I was living in lost cleanest corporate time. You know, so like, that was where we were.

And I found myself there. I'm like, why, why lost cleanness? You know, like, now we always start buying. We're like, well, there's a special moment.

So I said down with her and that was the first time that I ever voiced out loud to someone, hey, this is my, my thing is, I'm attracted to men.

I'm not attracted to women. And I have acted out of that. And I've lived a double life. And that's the reality of my story.

And I expected in that moment for her just, like I said, gross. Okay, great. Have a nice life. Yeah.

What I was met with was the complete opposite of that. It was her words were, I believe God has something for us. And I believe that he has something in our story. And I'm not going anywhere.

And I'm with you in it. And I will help you do. And I'll be whatever we need to, whatever I need to be to help walk through this with you.

That was shocking to me. I just, all that night was was just a lot of tears and a lot of like, I can't believe that you would say that and that you're willing to do that.

And so it was, it was truly like she was God's grace to me, like, intangible form. And so then we, we actually went through counseling.

We started counseling. We were dating, but we started counseling. And we had, we had just actually started counseling. And so we were like went to a session and we, and it was the second person I told our counselor and sitting with her next to me and said, this is kind of what my life is look like.

And they felt really weird because now the worlds were starting to like merge more together. And that felt really odd and awkward to me because I didn't, I didn't know how to put these things together.

They had always lived in compartmentalized boxes. Yeah.

And so then we, we started working through that together. And we started talking about the reality of that. And I got real honest with her and I told her how my mind thought.

And the places that were temptation to me and the things that I had done and the anonymous encounters and, and all of that began to unfold.

So then we, we went through another season of dating, but then we got to like, it like year eight in our dating, we just kind of were like, I got to the point where I was like, I can't do it.

I can't, I don't know how, where this goes. I don't know how we could get married. I don't know how I can move towards that because I just have that. I don't know how I could be attracted to a woman that way.

And though I love you, there was love that was holding us together. I was like, I love you, but I just don't know how that would work. Like I can't find a way in my head that makes sense.

And so we broke up and then we were apart for two years. And for two years, we just, she went her own way. She started, she dated somebody else. I started, you know, just I kept leading worship. I kept writing songs and I kept very focused on the Lord and very much in a way of for so long I had tried to change my behaviors for her.

And those two years were so critical to me because I got real honest with the Lord. And that was the moment when I really like put my stake in the ground of like whether her name is Jordan or the Jordan is in this with me or not, I'm not going to live that lifestyle.

Like I've made my claim like I'm not doing that. I've tried it. It does not bring me fulfillment. It is not satisfying to me. And so that was really important apart from her because we had had so many fights of her being the Holy Spirit in my life of her trying to change and convict me.

And it was not intentional for her. It was just how she was trying to help. So in those two years, you know, we just God did so much. But I remember being so honest with the Lord and like praying and saying things to him that I had never, I couldn't believe I would be saying in a prayer.

Very angry and very honest about like why is this my story. Why did you put me here and like cussing like I was so mad. I was just so mad. This was the reality of my life. And I couldn't see it away forward.

Well, then we end up a long story short. Our bands, she started leading worship with her own band. I was ending with worship with my band. And both of our bands were booked in Oklahoma City. And our bands were all friends. And so we decided to get dinner one night and at these events that we were separately at God dinner. I connected with her. And I just remember sitting there thinking she's the best thing that could have ever happened to me. And I'm willing to figure this out with her. And so call her the next day.

It's that with her told her, Hey, I'm back in, but this time it's, it's, it's long term. It's not, I'm not playing games. And we were married a few months later.

That's amazing. And we got married. And you know, marriage for, for me, was such a leap of faith.

You know, I, I'm very honest about this because I feel like so often we can be like, I know guys like where I was. I know the guys that are listening that are like, I couldn't do that. Well, I would have said the same thing. And I was in this place of like, I can't. There's no way I could do that. But I just really felt like the, I felt like it was the biggest step of faith that I could take to trust it. However, it was going to work out. And we talked about we're like, the honeymoon might be weird.

And it's, we'll figure it all out. And I don't know if it's going to work. Like we'll just have to see. And, but we went into our wedding. It was so Jesus exalting. And every, a lot of people, not everyone. There were a lot of people still in the room that some didn't know. But like a lot of people knew our story at that point.

At that point, we had been, we had worked through and brought community into it. We had brought a lot of accountability into it. A lot of friends that we had invited in that were walking with us. And so our wedding was a really amazing culmination and celebration of like what God was doing in our lives together. And.

And we've now been married 15 years. We have three kids. We have a 12, a 10 and a six year old. What was it like having kids like when you first, when you had your first kid? Was that just like my mind blowing to you? What? I mean, it was mind blowing. Beckett. Yeah. It was my, my, my first born son is case. He's 12. And I, when I had him, you know, it wasn't a story that I ever saw. I didn't think that I would ever have kids for this reason.

You know, I just, that was not written in my future in my mind. So when we had him, I always kind of go back to Psalm 374, like delight yourself in the Lord, then he gives you the desires of your heart. And I really sought to delight myself in him. I sought with everything I had in all of my might to like seek him and to like really delight in him, but what it meant to delight in him.

And when, when my kids came into my picture, into the picture, I, I didn't know that they were the desires of my heart. Like they were the things that, that, that God, it was the gift that God gave me through all of this, through all of the tumultuous ups and downs and through all of the hard.

My kids, my son, when I was holding my first born son, I'm like, this is crazy. And it's hard for me to, I always call these kids like my three miracles. Like, I believe that they are miraculous. I'm just like, how in the world that is God so kind and merciful and gracious to me to allow me to be a dad now and to want to speak to followers to like want to tell dads, like, don't choose your desires. Choose a legacy. Like, don't follow your desires. Follow legacy.

Build a legacy for your family and your, your future generations that matter and don't, when we follow our desires, it's, it's fleeting and it just lead you to nothing. So I'm just really passionate about being a dad now and with dads talking to dads and, and being a great husband. And I felt that, I felt that a lot, but it is, that's my desire is to be a great dad and a great husband. Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that.

I talked about this before, but it hit me a couple of years ago, it hit me really hard that just this, you know, whatever you want to call it, affliction, perversion, whatever it is, like, it robbed me of a wife and kids.

I never got to have kids because of this, this thing that that was kind of like just developed in me without my, you know, with I had no control over it and it developed in me, but

that is a, that's such an amazing thing because I, yeah, I'm like jealous of you because I just, I wish I had had that experience of having kids like it would have been such an amazing thing.

And I grew up in a house with eight kids, so I was the youngest of eight kids, but, yeah, that's something that I, I do regret slash I feel like I missed out on.

I mean, however, you know, I'm in the kingdom of God now and like, so yeah, everything's gravy, baby. Right, right.

So it's like I don't, you know, I don't like, I'm not like, I don't feel like self-pity about it at all. I just feel, I just kind of bummed that I didn't get to have kids. It's like it says a bummer.

That makes sense. That makes sense. And you know, it's, it's something that's the reason why I'm talking openly about my stories because I want guys to like, because there's so many different stories in this, you know, guys that have gotten very and have kids and are fighting it or so many that I've met that are still single

and solve it and trying to and living that and and it's so interesting because like it's so like with the way that God has set up is like the plans that he has for you, like you couldn't accomplish maybe with kids, you know, and so many, you know, you're the things you're able to do that I can't do because I have kids.

Yeah, in the way that you're leveraging your life for God's glory, like it's amazing and like pointing people to him and bringing people to him in such a special way that, you know, it's different.

And I understand it's a human desire of yours, but it's also like, wow, look at what God's doing in you and your ministry and I'm a beneficiary of it. Like I, I, when I heard it about your story, you know, that was when I was still fighting through stuff and I was so encouraged that someone was actually talking about it and someone was living their life this way that it was hope to me, you brought hope to me that you're a huge part of hope in my story.

And so anyway, I just, I know it's all nuanced and different and I, while I acknowledge the disappointment, I just speak the truth over your life of what God's doing in you is crazy and awesome and I'm so fortunate and a recipient of it.

Oh, thank you. Good praise God for that.

And so the, so you've been married for 15 years and has it been like, has it just been up, have there been ups and downs or has it been kind of just an amazing ride the whole time?

Like, yeah, it's been, it's been interesting. It's been, it's been great. We have a great marriage. I think like everyone, when you first get married, we've now learned, you know, those first few years are hard trying to learn each other and doing life together and being in close quarters and needing space and all those things.

All the normal things of marriage, but I've really tried to normalize the same sex attraction thing within my marriage, you know, when I'm now talking with other guys like we all have stuff, we all have our things and thing, you know, our desires that pulls away from our wives or from our families and we have to fight those things.

And so what I, what I love about our marriage, yeah, other, by the way, other guys have to fight opposite sex attraction with other women, you know, in their marriages, like constantly, they're constantly fighting that.

Exactly. But we've been holding on this and say, oh, this is so much worse and like, make it the thing. And I just am like, no, I want to normalize this and like, make guys not have to be crazy in their minds over that.

But, you know, Jordan and I, we have worked out in our marriage, what it's like for me.

And she knows the way my mind works, she knows the places of temptation for me, she knows we talk about it all, we talk about all these things.

And over the course of our marriage, she has learned like so much more even now as we're married and how I operate, but there's no one that knows me better at this point.

And so there has been ups and downs for sure, but I think that the whole sum of it is like, you know, it's amazing.

It's amazing that we get to walk life together and that I get to be so honest with somebody that still chooses to love me and still chooses to like lean towards me.

And a lot of that has come through our community to like, we have great friends who I meet with guys weekly.

We have two couples that we walk life with and a lot of friends, but these two couples really closely and I meet with the guys, she meets with the girls every week.

We're confessing things, we're talking about the real things, we're going deep and sharing where we were tempted this week and where our struggles are and she knows I'm doing that.

So there's a lot of trust built there and a built in accountability through our community.

So it's, yeah, we've learned a lot through that and how to open up and that was a journey with the same sex attraction wasn't like we started and like told everybody.

We literally just started talking about our story publicly last year.

So this is the public side of it is new.

And so that's a whole different thing, but we, you know, for us in our community, it's not new and the people around us, they know this and walk with us.

Yeah, that's a great question. We actually, I was pretty committed before we went public with our story that this was a journey for our entire family.

And so in order to do that, I knew I needed to tell my kids. So we had the conversation and with the two older ones, our six year old is still not, you know, six.

Yeah. And so at the time he was five, you know, last year we were watching this whole new endeavor.

And so we, I talked to my kids about it and I told my kids and we had the whole conversation.

And I had to, you know, for me, that was really hard. I had to go from what your kids think of you being the hero to human.

And that was, that was the hardest part so far of like having to tell them and say, like, this is like my life.

And, but we're going to talk about it and hope to bring people to freedom in Jesus and to break chains off of people who are living in secrecy and shame and silence.

And so we had, we had the whole conversation with them. And what was so sweet is the, you know, now we're public and we launched it with a podcast called Open Spaces.

And so when we launched Open Spaces last February, the night before we launched, you know, we're having all these thoughts of like, wow, you know, it was the way that we found we could share our story.

And in a conversation that people, you know, we didn't want to come out of the gate and be like, this is, this is how you need to think. And this is, you know, this is our, you know, we tried to enter the conversation in a way of like, this is our story.

And that's all we are going to tell you is to start story because God's in a miracle. We want to share it.

So when we start launched Open Spaces, the night before we were, we were, my wife, Jordan, I were like, we have a really great life. Are we about to like kind of blow it up?

Like, I feel like, why would we do this again? I could start having some like, you know, published on the first episode and going to share this big secret to everybody because we're in public ministry and, and it felt a little crazy.

But then I before I tell you all that as you had asked about my kids, my kids were the ones who I asked them to pray over it. And, you know, sitting with my kids, the night before we published this first episode of our podcast.

And hearing my then 11 and then nine year old son and daughter pray over our podcast and for the freedom for people to find Jesus in it.

That was, that's, that's the one I'm talking about. We're on the journey together. And one day, I don't know how, but I believe God will. I've had, I believe that he will have give us moments as a family of this is like a mission that we're on together.

That's awesome. Now, there's going to be, I know there's going to be comments in the comment section that are basically like from say it from the accuser Satan.

But I'm just going to ask you this. I mean, we've already kind of, you've already kind of talked about all of this. But just tell me, how would you respond to someone who's going to comment, which they probably will, you know, Jeff, like, what are you doing?

You're not, you're, why don't you just live your true self? Like, why don't you just live? This is, you're not, you know, why are you married? Like, you know, those kinds of questions, like, why aren't you just living who you are?

Like, it's ridiculous kind of thing. Yeah, say to that.

Yeah, I, it's interesting because like, what I would say is this is the truest me that I could have found.

But I didn't know that this true me existed until I surrendered everything to Jesus.

And when I did, and I kept walking with him, as I've said, he showed me the true desire of my heart.

And that was to be married and that was to have kids. It was not a sacrifice. I mean, it wasn't a sacrifice to me. There were a lot of ways as every marriage is a sacrifice.

But I, I chose the way that I see in Scripture of what the Bible says. And, and I just went that way. And, and I was like, you know what, that's faith.

Like, I have to have faith even in trusting with my sexuality and my, and what Jesus says about it and my identity is not in my attraction.

My identity is in Jesus. I'm a child of God and I don't claim anything else. I don't claim any label. I don't claim anything.

I don't, I, I purposely never talk about in my straight, in my gay, in my, I'm like, that's confusing. That's the world's terms that are confusing us.

The thing that I claim is Jesus above all else and my identity is in him is what Scripture says. And I've, and just for everyone, we all have to wrestle with what that means for each one of us.

In the way that the enemy pulls us away from what is God's best. And for me, he was pulling me away and things that like no one could, I know everyone could argue over the terminology.

But what people can't argue with is the story that I'm living. Like the story is that that I did should not have been married. Like that, that was not in my mind.

That was not even possible. But with God, all things are possible. And I stepped in with faith, truly trusting like God, what are you going to do in this?

I have no idea. But I have watched how the Lord has like been so kind to us and that Jordan is the person that shows me the most Jesus grace that I could ever experience.

And she, you know, keeps me walking close to him. And it is the best way for me to live is to be close to my wife and have my family and disciple my kids to be Jesus followers to tell people about Jesus and raise a family and a legacy to look forward to that everyone knows without it out the Johnson's were surrendered to Jesus.

And that that's all I care about. I don't care about people's opinions. I don't care about labels. I don't care about any of those things.

I care that people will look at my life when I'm dead and gone. And in the culture as it will change and things will continue to shift. And as everyone keeps following culture, I'm following Jesus.

And I will radically give my life to him day in and day out. And so it doesn't really matter those comments. That's what I'm.

Amen to that. I mean, by the way, so trolls don't even bother doing the comments because they're unnecessary.

But you know, you said something that just reminded me of, you know, why I've been, you know, single and I don't know if the Rosaria Butterfield gets mad at me when I use a word.

So I'm going to say chased. Pick a word. It's actually, as you're saying, it's like, it's not really that hard because I have found this treasure hidden in a field.

And it's like, I have this relationship. I always say this. Like I've had, I have this relationship with the king of the universe. And it's so all consuming and all.

Like my whole focus is on Jesus all the time day and night. Like every night, I mean, this is I, I just like every night before, before I go to bed, I literally watch three sermons a night or two or two to three sermons a night.

But it's not because like I'm trying to be like a good person. It's just because that's what I'm drawn to. I just want more and more of. And so yes, yeah, that same. Like that's why I'm a worship leader. That's why I want.

That's why I listen to worship music. That's why I lead worship. That's why I give my life to leading a worship team at a church because I believe that when you surround yourself with worship, like things change your eyes lift towards Jesus and take your eyes off of yourself and all of your things and your desires and fix them on where they need to be.

Yeah. And I talked to when I talked to a lot of guys who were struggling with this issue and you know, they're kind of like almost at the point of wanting to bail out to bail.

I'm just like, dude, just look at Paul's life. Look at first of all, Jesus was single. Paul was single. Look at Paul's life. Like all he cared about was running around the Mediterranean planting churches and spreading in the gospel.

He wasn't concerned about his, he was like beaten and jailed in the shipwrecked and all kinds of tear. He was as one pastor put it. He's, he was the most afflicted besides Jesus. He was like the most afflicted human of all time.

And was Paul worried about like, oh, I don't have a wife and kids or oh, I don't have like whatever. It's like, no, he just cared about the gospel and like, right, Jesus, getting the gospel out.

So I just, when you kind of have this, when you pull out and you have this bigger perspective and instead of this like naval gazing perspective, it changes everything. It changes the way you see.

Like I always say this too, like, you know, people ask me, you know, is your life unfair blah, blah, blah.

Like, since I've been a Christian for 16 and a half years, almost 17 years. Oh my gosh. Amazing.

I'm getting old. 17 years ago.

I have never once, not for a second felt like I'm being cheated out of something. Like I'm being cheated out of a relationship with a guy or my life is, you know, my life is sad because I don't get to have a boyfriend or

like I never once felt that. Like I feel the opposite. I feel like I can't believe God chose me before the foundations of the world to be in his kingdom.

And to give me ever lasting life, which is kind of amazing.

You know, I'm immortal. You're immortal. Yeah.

And so I mean, I'm just like, and there's a lot of people who I posted something about, you know, on Twitter about my old life.

And, you know, I got, it was mostly positive comments, but there was, it went viral this post. And there were, there were obviously some trolls who commented.

And one of them said the most foul thing. He was just like, oh, you still want to blah, blah, blah. Like really gross. And I'm just like, get behind me. Say, like, you don't know me. Like you don't know what I'm feeling inside.

Yeah.

And you don't know my relationship with the Lord. Like anyway. So, yeah, haters got to hate, but ignore the haters.

But, yeah, absolutely. That's their scripture. I mean, that's what happens is.

And by the way, yeah, on the Sormon on the Mount, Jesus says, you know, blessed are you who are revived.

If you're reviled and people say all kinds of malicious things about you for my namesake, your reward is great in heaven, which is really cool because it rewards our eternal.

And I love the rewards. Exactly. It's coming. So, but Jeff, I'm so like number one, I'm so happy for you. I'm happy that you, like in my mind, it's like you chose the right path.

You chose the right, the better portion. Like you, you decided like because you could have easily just gone the other way and just completely full, full bore into that life.

And instead, you're like, no, I'm going to choose, I'm going to choose a godly life. I'm going to choose a godly marriage. I'm going to choose a godly family. And this is the way I'm going to go. So I'm so proud of you.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

You know, I wish I had done that way, but it was a lot. I had a different story. But anyway, I'm so proud of God's mercy. It's all God's grace and mercy over my life.

Yeah. And so tell, tell people again, where they can find your podcast. Yeah. So we launched open spaces. It's openspacespodcast.com is our website.

Openspaces is our podcast that we have launched last year and telling the first five episodes just kind of unpack our full story.

And then we're diving into more now and new in the podcast world, but excited about that and started a nonprofit with open spaces in hopes to have retreats for people and have counseling and a lot of things that we want to help people in this as we have been helped by others.

And just see like we just want to be open to what God has for us. And as we talk about this, it was important for us to share publicly.

Just to help the guys out there that that were me that struggled as struggling now and don't know where to go. So we just want to be a place where we can have open conversation about it and remind people that with God, all things are possible.

And we're not saying you got to get married in your story. That's not it. We're just asking. We're just wanting to say just follow Jesus and choose holiness in your life and watch what he'll do. It's there's no telling what he'll do when you do that.

So yeah, that's where we are open spaces podcast. Awesome. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much, Beckett. You have been a huge inspiration. I mean, I'm really grateful I get to be on today. Praise God.

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