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Listen today.
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode
of the Epstein Chronicles.
The ghost of Jeffrey Epstein continues
to reach out from the grave and drag people down.
And one of those people that's been dragged below the surface
is hotshot lawyer, Brad Karp,
who was the boss man over at Paul Weiss,
one of the biggest and most prestigious white shoe law firms
in the United States.
And after the Epstein files,
or at least some of them were released,
Brad Karp in his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein
has come back to Hauntum.
So today, we have a very long article
from the Financial Times talking about the downfall
of Brad Karp and how all of this came into play.
So let's dive in and see what they have for us.
Headline, Apollo, Paul Weiss, and Epstein,
how a star client brought down a big law boss.
This article was authored by Kay Wiggins
and James Fontanella Khan and Susie Ring.
As the American legal system closed in on him
in the final months of his life,
Jeffrey Epstein shared a rye remark with a confidant.
You will smile, but the US attorney is named BJ.
Epstein set in an email to Brad Karp,
one of New York's best paid and most highly regarded lawyers.
Epstein's comment was likely a reference
to US Department of Justice lawyer,
Biong Jin Pak, who represented the government
after its earlier plea deal with Epstein
was ruled illegal.
Yeah, you know the NPA that I'm always rallying about
that the DOJ could end tomorrow
if they wanted to, that one.
They refused to do it though.
They refused to end that NPA
because it gives them protection and it gives them an out.
Well, look, these guys are protected.
We can't go after them.
But if the DOJ meant business, they don't,
they would get rid of the NPA yesterday.
But for that to happen, we'd have to be governed
by people that were actually serious.
Karp did not officially represent Epstein
but was informally supporting him.
Love it, Karp replied, on March 5th, 2019.
Yeah, I love it, man.
I love defending my child molesting buddy, hell of a guy.
Can't wait to go over to Jeffy's house and have some tea.
It was one of more than 30 emails
that Karp sent Epstein in the four months
after the Miami Herald published testimony from women
who said Epstein's sexual abuse
when they were as young as 14 had shattered their lives.
In those emails, Karp called Epstein my friend
and said he'd love to see him.
Again, these people don't care.
Brad Karp, the rest of them.
The only issue they have is being called onto the carpet.
And if you notice, that's the only time
that they even begin to show any kind of remorse
or fake remorse, oh, I'm so sorry,
I should have never associated with them.
I had no idea.
You had every idea you didn't care.
And that goes for guys like Brad Karp too.
Now look, I'm not saying Brad Karp was abusing anybody,
but he was enabling Jeffy Epstein.
And he was certainly helping him out
and you can't even fall back on the defense that,
oh, while I'm a lawyer, this is what I do.
Was he your client?
Did he pay a retainer?
Oh, none of that happened.
Cool, so he was your friend
and you were giving him advice.
Got it.
Karp ran Paul Weiss, one of the U.S.'s biggest
and most prestigious white shoe law firms.
He had just won a coveted attorney of the year, title,
for which he made a speech, saying the firm's lawyers
were committed to doing the right thing.
He praised earlier generations at Paul Weiss,
who saw the law as a noble profession,
not as a commercial enterprise, oh, stop it.
That's all it is to any of you,
which are noble profession as I charge $1,400 an hour.
I wonder how many indigent clients Mr. Karp has.
I'm guessing not too many.
But sure, tell me some more that it's all love of the game.
But a close reading of the hundreds of entries
in the DOJ Epstein files and the conversations
with people with knowledge of the firm
revealed just how far he was willing to go
for his most important client, Apollo Global Management.
Karp's need to please the private capital group
and it's then literally on black and tangled him
in a relationship with Epstein that lasted until months
before the pedophiles death in August of 2019.
And when you have a client like Apollo Global,
that's paying you literally millions of dollars on retainer.
There is nothing you're not gonna do for them.
You're gonna walk the line, right?
And who cares if girls were abused?
Who gives a shit?
I gotta make sure my client's good.
Mr. Karp is made clear that he regrets his interaction
with Epstein, Paul Weiss disagrees with the portrayal
of much of the information specific to our firm.
The law firm told the FTN response to questions
for this article.
Karp declined to comment.
Privately, he has told those close to him
that he was not friends with Epstein
and he was keeping him on side
because black had wanted him to.
I could see that.
I could definitely see that,
but it doesn't make it any better.
You're an adult, dude.
Okay?
Nobody's forcing you to do this.
Leon Black doesn't have that kind of power over you.
You're already richer than God, but sure,
let me bend over backwards for Leon Black and Jeffrey Epstein.
How does that make sense to anybody out there?
And it's another reason why I don't care
about these people and their reputations.
They had the whole last world given to them, all these people.
And they squandered it.
And now you want me to care about their reputation?
Because they got nailed as being a friend of Jeffrey Epstein
and in some cases a lot worse.
Sorry, you got the wrong guy.
A much more concerned about the girls who were abused
and about the rest of us who were stolen from.
I instructed Brad to engage directly with Epstein
on my behalf on various matters,
including fee negotiations,
beginning in 2013 and continuing until 2019.
Black told the FT at all times Brad provided wise
and effective counsel.
It would cost carp the job that he held for 18 years.
There is nothing new in the release documents Apollo said.
It said the law firm's record had conducted a thorough
and independent investigation into the Jeffrey Epstein matter
more than five years ago and had full unfettered access
to all communications and any other material that they requested.
Well, we know that's a bunch of BS.
In that long Leon Black article that we did recently,
we broke it all down.
All the different things that weren't reported,
how record was negligent when it comes to their investigation
and how it was all by design.
Carpe became chair of Paul Weiss in 2008
when it was best known for its elite litigation practice.
By the early 2000s he had realized that if he wanted
the position itself among the top ranks of global law firms,
it needed exposure to private equity,
which was then at the beginning of a decade-long boom.
And the way to get that back then, of course,
Apollo global.
Nobody did it better, right?
Leon Black, Josh Harris, Mark Rowan,
all dudes that were highly thought of at the time.
And guys that were well-positioned
to do exactly what Paul Weiss wanted.
Apollo was Paul Weiss' solution
and the relationship transformed the law firm.
Paul Weiss' gross revenue
surge from $665 million in 2009
to more than $3.25 billion in 2025,
according to a person familiar with the matter.
Carpes pay, surge two, propelling him
into an elite group of lawyers
who made tens of millions of dollars annually.
Apollo paid the firm more than $200 million in a year,
in order of magnitude more in fees than most other clients.
Now, think about that for a minute.
Leon Black, or Apollo, I should say,
paid $200 million to the whole law firm of Paul Weiss.
Now think about how much money that Leon Black
gave to Jeffrey Epstein personally.
And it shows you just how crazy that number is.
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Hey, I'm Josh Speagle, host of the podcast,
Lunatic in the Newsroom.
If you enjoy journalism that drifts into mild panic,
wild overthinking, and a guaranteed nervous breakdown,
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Hi, this is Alex Cantrowitz.
I'm the host of Big Technology podcast,
a longtime reporter and an on-air contributor to CMBC.
And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out
how artificial intelligence is changing
the business world and our lives.
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Apollo's growing importance to the firm,
provoked criticism from some internally,
who felt Paul Weiss was becoming too heavily exposed
to the private capital group.
Look at that time, nobody ever thought Apollo
was going anywhere.
Everybody thought that Apollo was forever
and look, they still are.
It's not like Apollo's gone, not like they folded,
not like they've been rated and had all their assets seized.
They're still active and they're still one
of the biggest in the game.
And at the time, it had to seem smart
to hit your wagon to Apollo.
Carp took the view that he had to stay very close
to the founders of Apollo to make sure Apollo wouldn't leave,
a person who knows him said.
Staying close to Apollo meant becoming entangled
in Black's complex personal life.
Black is sometimes referred to in the Epstein files
as Mr. Big, the nickname of the Wall Street finance
era character in the TV series Sex in the City.
No idea, never watch that show.
So I have no idea who the reference is referring to,
but we'll roll with it.
Epstein was also involved in having known Black since the 90s.
By 2016, however, the relationship
between the two financiers was in trouble.
Black was fighting with Epstein over how much money
the Apollo founder owed for services
that included trust and estate planning, tax issues,
and philanthropy, and had asked Carp to deal with Epstein
on his behalf.
And for Carp, all he saw was dollar signs, right?
Oh, shit, hell yeah, I'll middleman this.
What's my cut?
How much am I getting?
Over the years, Carp and Epstein
discussed Black's fees at length.
Black ultimately paid Epstein 158 million.
And this is the reason Paul Weiss was cited
for the firm's contact with Epstein,
saying that it was retained by Leon Black
than the CEO of the firm's longtime client Apollo
to negotiate a series of fee disputes
with Jeffrey Epstein that spans several years.
So Carp was eaten at a both sides of the bowl.
Not only was he friendly with Leon Black,
he was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein.
And he helped negotiate this gigantic payout
that Epstein ended up getting.
And if you think that was all for tax advice,
if that was all for estate planning,
you probably believe that there's a such thing
as mermaids and that assasque watch
is about to come out of the forest and kidnap you.
Because that's how ridiculous it is.
But Carp and Epstein discussed other things too.
That included a woman called Guzelgani Eva
and she was a Russian formal model
with whom Black had an extra marital affair
and who by 2015 was seeking money
from the billionaire private equity titan
and threatening to go public about their relationship
according to documents in the DOJ files.
And what was so crazy about this situation
with Leon Black, his wife was super sick
while he was doing this.
And I just can't even imagine,
like when my girlfriend had breast cancer,
the last thing I was thinking about
is stepping out and meeting other women.
Like where are your priorities, dude?
And look, I get it, everybody has needs and shit, right?
Go to the bathroom, handle your business
and be done with it.
But for these people, it's about other things.
It's not just the pleasure, it's not just,
oh, I want to have relations.
It's about power, it's about domination.
And when you're talking about a dude like Leon Black
from what we've heard, sure seems to fit the mold.
When Epstein suggested getting the Manhattan District
attorney involved, Carp made the call.
When Epstein suggested getting Gani Eva's visa revoked,
Carp said, we'll work on this.
When Epstein asked whether Carp and his colleagues
could have Gani Eva arrested,
Carp replied his strong belief is that the answer is yes.
He said this was especially so
because the referral would come from a former senior prosecutor
who, Paul Weiss, had recently hired.
Oh, isn't that great?
Nothing like using your connections with SDNY
or insert district here to arrest people.
All on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein and Leon Black,
these are straight up mafia tactics,
but when they're performed by people like Carp
and Jeffrey Epstein,
it's just considered true business, right?
It was Paul Weiss that hired the private investigation firm
the Ardello and Company on Black's behalf to Surveller
and Carp who asked Epstein in July of 2015
where Gani Eva stayed when she was in New York
and whether he knew her social security number.
Three times in eight days in August of 2015
and again in October,
Black met Gani Eva at an upscale New York restaurant
using Ardello he recorded their conversations.
Carp sent the transcript to Epstein
and one Black told Gani Eva as long as you behave,
I'll pay you 100,000 a month every month
for the next 12 years.
What I'm trying to do for you is also to get a mechanism
and I think my lawyers have one.
Nardello was hired to provide investigative support
and connection with an extortion attempt.
The investigation firm said in the course
of that engagement, no one at Nardello
had any contact or communication with Epstein
nor did the firm know that Mr. Black's counsel
was sharing its work product with him.
I mean, I guess I guess we'll just have to believe that
but kind of hard to believe no.
Seems to me that that's a very large bridge to cross.
Carp later asked a colleague whether Paul Weiss
could help Black with an escrow fund
to make monthly payments to an individual,
the DOJ file show.
They don't say whether the request was related to Gani Eva.
The firm's policy was not to do so, however,
days later, Carp told Epstein,
he had sought reconsideration from city groups
to top executives again without naming Gani Eva
but in the end, they deferred to compliance.
Gani Eva rejected any allegation of extortion
and told the FT nothing about my interactions
with Leon Black was consensual and the truth will come out.
I never sought money from him, she added,
any suggestion that I pursued him, his money
or acted voluntarily is false.
So look at this point, I believe Gani Eva
and I believe that there's more here
than is being led on.
Black made his final payment to Epstein in 2017
according to a report from the law firm Deckert
which investigated Black's Apollo links to the pedophile.
The Deckert report did not mention surveillance,
private investigators or Gani Eva.
The Carp Epstein relationship continued
and that's what I was talking about originally,
the Deckert report garbage.
Anytime you hear about that, just discard it.
The findings were trash.
That same year, the pair exchanged a set of cryptic messages
after Carp was scheduled to visit Epstein's house.
Epstein email Carp to say sorry I spooked you.
I think very low risk, very low if any.
Thanks Carp replied, I really appreciate you always
being straight with me on many, many, many things.
But I had never considered myself that,
really got me thinking I appreciate your friendship.
Epstein reassured Carp, I think that is now a catch all word
for anyone who likes women, so no worries.
It's not clear what the word was.
Carp replied, I worry when I have nothing
to worry about my friend.
Oh, I guess you did have something to worry about.
Didn't you miss your Carp?
Some of the exchanges display an offensive humor
when Epstein apparently questioning
whether an unnamed woman was being truthful
about the signing of a contract asked.
Did she also say she was a virgin?
Carp told Epstein, your feisty tonight.
Carp appears to have been willing to push the boundaries
of confidentiality rules to meet Epstein's request.
In September of 2015, Carp sent Epstein an email
that appeared to contain login details
intended to be used by the law firm.
The email read, user, PYSE, password, Apple 65.
In April of 2018, Epstein asked him
for a copy of a document related to a stock cell.
I'm going to send that to you, Carp replied,
but please don't let him know that I shared it.
It's supposed to be strictly confidential.
Black spokesperson told the FT that Black had instructed Carp
to share the document.
He also said Epstein embellished, exaggerated,
and lied in his communications.
Black wanted Carp to remain in contact with Epstein into 2019
because the feed dispute continued
and because tax and estate matters
and transitioning information can take years.
The spokesman said, yeah, right.
He wanted to stay in contact
because he was being tugged along.
And Epstein had a bunch of dirt on him,
so he had to make sure that the lines of communication
remained open, right?
In his October 2018 speech,
to accept the New York Law Journal's
Attorney of the Year Award,
Carp celebrated Paul Weiss's virtues.
It's such a privilege to lead a law firm
whose professionals are wholly committed,
reflexively committed to doing the right thing,
the courageous thing.
A law firm that's willing to stand up
for the rule of law, Carp said.
The following month, the Miami Herald
published its Epstein investigation.
By then, Black had cut off communications.
The damage was already done.
And even though they tried to hide it,
eventually it was all gonna come out.
And boy, did it.
In the messages that they exchanged after that,
Epstein and Carp offered comfort and advice to each other.
In December, Epstein told Carp in relation
to something unspecified,
hurts that this is taking a physical toll on you,
not worth it.
Carp replied, thanks my friend, I hear you,
it's just an awful, relentless stretch.
Aw, poor guys.
Can you imagine what those girls were going through?
I don't give a damn about Brad Carp or Jeffrey Epstein.
After a US federal judge ruled that Epstein's 2007 plea deal,
which had let him avoid federal charges illegal
in February of 2019, Carp told Epstein,
hope you're staying calm.
Let me know what I can do to help.
Your judgment and friendship Epstein replied,
Carp turned to Epstein for recommendations for a lawyer
when former city group president John Havens was ensnared
in a Florida prostitution crackdown in February of 2019.
Havens told Epstein, I had never met Epstein,
I never spoke with Epstein, and I never asked or knew
that Carp spoke to Epstein.
I got legal references from other people
and did not use the lawyer Carp referred me to.
Charges against Havens were ultimately dropped.
One month later, when Epstein was under renewed threat
of legal action and wanted the firm of private investigators,
it was Carp who recommended Nardello
and the same organization Paul Weiss had previously hired
on Black's behalf.
In 2019, unbeknownst Mr. Nardello,
a firm client recommended that Epstein
contact him about providing assistance
with anticipated civil litigation.
The investigative firm said,
Epstein reached out, but Mr. Nardello declined to help
and they had no further contact.
I'm sure they had no contact,
or was it it was back channel contact.
I'm guessing it was back channel contact.
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By the time that the DOJ published the Epstein files this year,
Karp had already lost his shine
and parts of New York legal community
because of his capitulation to the Trump administration.
When US President Donald Trump issued
potentially damaging executive orders,
targeting Paul Weiss and others last year,
it was a test of the law firm's identity.
Other firms successfully fought back in court.
Some of Paul Weiss litigators would have liked to do the same.
But it was clear within Paul Weiss
that it was not an Apollo's interest for the firm
to be in conflict with the administration.
Any implication that Apollo in any way,
to in or attempt it to influence our decision-making
with respect to the executive order is completely false.
Paul Weiss said,
does anyone really believe this Karp dude?
Just another scumbag with revisionist history.
Karp agreed to provide $40 million of unpaid work
for Trump back causes.
The order was dropped soon after.
Other large law firms struck similar deals.
You couldn't imagine a greater chilling effect
on the rest of the profession than Karp's deal,
the head of a large law firm set at the time.
The episode prompted speculation about Karp's future.
He weathered it reinforcing his reputation internally
as a stabilizing figure.
But when the DOJ published three million pages
from the Epstein files in late January,
some clients began signaling concerns
about reputational risk from Karp's relationship.
Within days, a small group of partners
started preparing a contingency plan to replace Karp
before agreeing that he should be removed as chair.
He remains a partner, so he had to step down,
but he still works for the firm.
Keep that in mind.
As the drama unfolded,
some partners expressed frustration
that Karp had not stepped aside earlier.
Some believed that he should leave the firm entirely.
Still, some in the firm's litigation business
where Karp made his name,
thought he should not have had to step down as chair at all.
Others viewed his removal as chair
as a proportionate response given that he had not been accused
of breaking the law.
Some partners were told he was being allowed to remain
in the firm out of what one referred to as humanity.
He had worked there for more than 40 years
since his days as a summer associate.
Star dealmaker Scott Barche has since been installed as chair.
He's less close to Apollo than others at the firm
since he advises on public MA,
rather than private equity dealmaking,
and he's less inclined than Karp
to present the firm as a force for good in the world.
He's not named in the Epstein files.
Well, that's a fucking achievement in itself at this point.
If you're in the financial sector
and your name is not in the Epstein files,
I think that's success for you.
And I think the same goes for these law firms, right?
How many of these big shot lawyers are caught up?
Of Karp, one partner said at the time
of his departure as chair,
people used to like him partly because he is charming
and charismatic,
but everyone is so annoyed about this.
Look, I don't doubt it.
Imagine being a partner.
I'd be pissed too.
And when it comes to guys like Karp,
there's going to be many more following suit.
And I think as more comes out and more emails
are gone through and more connections are made,
you're going to see this kind of exodus
from other big shots.
We've already seen Catherine Rummler
end up leaving her post at Goldman Sachs, big time lawyer.
And now we have Mr. Karp as well.
And in my opinion, he most certainly won't be the last.
All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
All the information that goes with this episode
can be found in the description box.
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The Epstein Chronicles

The Epstein Chronicles

The Epstein Chronicles