From Small Town Farming to CEO: A Conversation with Dave Johnson

Hello, everybody. I'm Russell Hill. I'm your host of WTF and that is what the

fix stops to everybody out there and I'm joined today by love everyone. I'm

Charity or co-host today and we have Dave Johnson, the president and CEO of ASE Dave.

Welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you Charity and Russ. I'm

looking forward to this and it's going to be a fun conversation. Yes, it's not.

You're starting out that way. I love it. Well, introduce yourself to us Dave. Let

us know what you do and who you are. Yeah, so I like to start from the

beginning and I think it's because it's reflective of our industry and what

what can happen with anyone in our industry. I grew up farming and ranching up in

northern Wyoming, middle of nowhere. nearest place to the one would probably

recognize this little place called Cody Wyoming and grew up under the

tutelage of my dad and my oldest brother who had vast experience in fixing

and repairing and maintaining anything from cars, trucks, detractors and heavy

equipment. And I grew up basically with a ranch in my hand. And from those

humble beginnings because there wasn't much cash, we had to fix things. We didn't

get to buy things. And from there, I ultimately ended up going to Weber State

University in Utah after thinking all I want to do is turn a ranch and my dad

convinced me I should maybe get some go to college. And that was okay for me,

but you know, it wasn't necessary, but I did it. And I had dreams of working in

the mining industry because I loved heavy equipment. God had other plans.

When I graduated, I ended up being recruited by Ford Motor Company to go to

Michigan and work for them. I'd never been that far east before I had no

intention of doing it, didn't want to do it. Everything else fell through that I

was working on in terms of opportunity. And I had all these five year plans to

leave Ford as well. And it only took six plus five year plans for that to

succeed. So I ended up retiring from Ford after 32 years as they're

executive over the global fixed op support operations called the service

engineering operations there. And after retiring, the ASE came calling. And I

just thought this is a great opportunity and the opportunity to hopefully give

back, but also to contribute. And I've been blessed by it. And so here I am.

I'm now CEO at ASE and we're trying to blow the dust off the brand and put

our best foot forward to support the industry. So is ASE a company that you

built or that you joined? No, I'm glad you asked that. It's a great question

because a lot of people in our industry, they know what ASE is, but they don't

necessarily know the history. And so I'm going to take you on a trip back to

1972. So here we are, 1972, the big three at the time. You know, it would

have been, you know, Ford GM Chrysler, as it was known at the time. And NADA,

the National Automobile dealer association got together because what had

happened was the politicians will say, and DC had gotten hold of some issues

around automotive care and repair practices. Their concern was fraud, but as

they looked at it more closely, they discovered a lot of it was had more to

do with competence than fraud. But government was threatening to set up

established federal licensure. Well, nobody wanted that. And so again, you

had the big three, you had NADA, and you had a couple of the big chains after

market chains at the time that got together and said, Hey, we can do this

ourselves. We can regulate ourselves. And so we're going to establish ASE as

the entity that be doing credentialing for the industry for third party

certifications. So that's how it all started. And so since 1972, so now we're

over 50 plus years, as he has been there in that key role, providing true third

party certification for technicians, you'll hear a lot of people say, you

know, see our certified text. Well, you want to ask who certified them?

Because some people will say, well, we self certified them. That's not real

certification. But that's okay. We're here to fill that role. And as we've

grown into that and recognizing we sit in this unique place in the industry,

we also have what's known as the ASE education foundation, which grew out

of a couple of organizations that were out there trying to serve the industry

by ensuring that students were receiving the kind of education that they needed

so they could come out of a automotive program or heavy truck program or whatever

the case may be, and be able to go into a shop and be productive. And that may

seem self evident that everyone would do that. It doesn't, hasn't always worked

that way. And so ASE ed foundation accredits. So it's a little different.

Think about any college program or university program, high school program.

They have accreditations that they can obtain. And that that means is it's a

certification of your program is what it means, right? So that you know, we know

that you've got the right tools, the equipment, the instructor who knows what

they're doing, the facilities that everything is right. So that that student

can come through that program, come out of it and they're ready to go produce.

And there's around 2000 accredited programs out there today. There need to be

more and we're working on that. So that was the kind of the two sides of ASE.

I got I got to tell you this is my 40 first year in automotive industry.

And it is a badge of honor. The logo that everybody sees behind

Dave, everybody's familiar with that logo. Now you're going to understand the story

that he just explained how it all started and how he came about being there.

But I mean, you can drive by independence, franchise dealers and everybody's

looking for that that that blue ASE certification that it's like it is.

It's like a badge of honor. Do you agree?

I absolutely agree. It's an interesting thing, especially in the day of social

media. You'll see the the folks out there, or we'll say they aren't exactly the

most positive about ASE, right? So so those in the industry that are kind of

thrown rocks. It's not the consumers. The consumers don't have an issue with it.

It's only if you get down to the fundamentals of this as a consumer, I'd ask

people, would you want to go to your dentist that hadn't been certified by, you

know, the state to which would you go to a lawyer that didn't pass the bar exam?

Would you go to a CPA that wasn't a CPA as insertified public accountant?

Why would you treat your car any differently, especially in this day and

age, right? So it's a no brainer from the consumer standpoint.

There's people out there that have criticisms of ASE within our industry.

I get it. And especially in the social media, you know, look rage sells.

And so you see some of that. And it's okay because they're a fair

criticisms of ASE and things we do or what we've done in the past.

And and you know, I think I said earlier, we're working to blow the dust off

the brand here. And what I mean by that, it's much deeper than that is where

we're trying to see how, how do we serve and enable the industry?

That's what we're here really to do. Not sure that always came through in the

way that ASE is operated. And we're changing that. And so I'm really excited

about it. Again, doesn't mean you're perfect or just because you're a certified

technician that you know all and can be all and do all. No more than it does

with your doctor CPA or dentist, but it means that you have shown the

dedication that you are trying to be a master in your craft. That's really

what it means. Again, not perfect, but it is a badge of honor in that sense.

And I say, Russ, it's not a badge of honor because ASE is so awesome and cool.

And you're part of the ASE club now. No, it's because ASE is actually reflecting

who you are. And the club that you're already part of is one of those times

for something significant. Yeah, it does.

Well, let us let us get started with a few questions.

You've compared lowering standards in technician certification to

dropping SAT requirements. Are we at risk of weakening up the profession to

solve a staffing shortage? Good question. Oh, that is good.

That's a loaded question, charity. Um, but it's a good one. And I'll look,

my short answer is yes. And again, there'll be, there'll be something I'll say,

well, but you don't have to. You can be a good technician without being

certified or, you know, you could lower the standards when you get more people

in. And yes. And frankly, that happens today because it's a free market.

And again, required licensure is not there. But I would argue that if you

dumb it down, if you don't ask for this, if we don't expect this of those who

take care of us, what is the standard? Who sets the standard? You could argue

the, you know, OEMs, you know, the dealers, well, they've got their OEM

standards that they need to meet. Yeah, yeah, they do. But even if that,

I'll pick on Toyota as a, as a great positive example of this Toyota

still requires ASC certification because they want that third party validation.

Yeah, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Russ. My words, I'm, I'm having our time with

them. But having that third party validation that says, no, this is real.

It's worth it. And as you think about that example that I gave, guys thought

it was very interesting. This was in California, right? Where this was a

professor that had done a lot of, I think it was economics professor,

done a lot of study on this since, since COVID. And, and what he could see

was that when they dropped the SATs, everything kind of started to degrade.

And he said, what you started to see in the classroom, what was happening

there and that the performance levels were not there that they had before.

And, and you could argue that the SATs were imperfect. And they are for any of

none that's taken the SATs or the ACT or whatever a college entrance exam.

You want to pick, we would all, I would argue they're not perfect.

I thought I was much smarter than what reflected of me. But, but it was

probably pretty accurate in my case. But, but, but, but when you don't have

that, now how do you know where you're at? And, and to me, it's, you can say,

well, it's about the institution or about, in our case, about the industry

with ASEs that, you know, well, it doesn't matter. Well, no, it, it does,

it matters to you as the individual. Because think about that SAT example,

the big problem in there was not so much about how smarter you.

It's about where you at and your journey and your learning journey.

That was the big problem. So having, uh, having these benchmark tests is what

tells you where you're at. And this is what I, when I said talked about enabling

and I think this is where we've gotten it confused as an industry that, like,

well, if you can't pass an ASE test, you're an idiot or, you know, or that,

that, you know, that it doesn't, and then that's, that becomes a negative

connotation if you can't do it. And then you'll have those that are,

maybe they did fail a test or maybe they're afraid to take the test,

which I, I don't blame any of them. I, I get it. Um, and, and you create this

stigma around it that, that it's, it's actually cheating you because if you

look at this as, this is part of my journey of becoming the kind of service

professional I want to be, I'm taking the test. I don't care if I failed.

Guess what? I get, I get a gap analysis. I now get to see, where is it that

I'm weak so that I can go work on that. I can come back and take the test.

Absolutely. I can pass it. I now know I have with confidence for myself and

for everybody in the industry, they know what level I'm at. And again,

it doesn't mean I'm perfect. But I, here's where I'm at. And you know it,

you can declare it. And guess what happened? The key thing was on that

journey, rust and charity, you learned something. And that's what I mean by

ASE enabling. And back to that S a S a T comparison. That's what that

professor was really pointing out was how you don't want them failing

classes. Well, we don't want people screwing up on fixing cars, right?

That's part of it. That's the analogy to me. What you want them to

understand is here's where your strengths are. Here's where your weaknesses

are. Let's go address the weaknesses. And let's help you succeed.

So I don't care how many times you failed the ASE test. We don't keep track of

that. We just want to know we want to help you succeed.

You know, it's different for everybody. But I think there's a lot of things

a bar, obviously, of where you'd like to be, level of competency.

Also, it has to do with the instructor and the level and how somebody is,

you know, moved through that process as well. I think that's an important

as well. The bottom line is if that's part of your dream and where you want

to go, so many people, I call it fail that you want to call it that.

But all that is is my acronym is the first attempt in learning. Okay.

Now you know, now you know where the competency and the proficiency is.

And if you're not getting in from the instructor or instructors,

et cetera, there's a lot of things happen in there, I think. Don't you think,

Dave? I do. In fact, I'm writing that down.

I first attempt in learning. I love that, Russ.

And I'll send you a bill. Okay. Very good.

I'll buy you lunch next time I see you. But yes, I think you're absolutely right.

You nailed it. I couldn't say it any better. That's that's what this is about.

And when you think about here's the great thing about our industry,

I think is the fact that guess what? You don't need a bachelor's degree.

You don't need an associate's degree. You can,

it can take whatever path you want to take. My path was very different, right?

I, I say I grew up at the tutelage of my, my dad and my older brother.

And then yes, I took courses at school as well.

I took a very interesting path in that sense.

And this enables you to do with, with the ASEs is,

doesn't matter what pass you took, doesn't matter what school you came from,

what the name on the building was, right? Cause I was opposed to,

we'll say more formal education where that seems to be a big deal,

which means you pay more money. In our case, everybody's equal in that ASE certification,

that, that just erases where you came from,

who you took your classes from. Because again, it sets that,

that sets that baseline for you to say, I know where I'm at.

Everybody recognizes it. And guess what? Everybody can do it.

I believe everybody can do it. Whether you went to a shop program,

you had a great instructor. Maybe you didn't have a great instructor.

Maybe there are certain things you learned and other things you didn't guess what?

This is a way for you to level up and be able to say it, declare it,

regardless of what your path was.

I love automotive is the great equalizer. It doesn't matter your pass.

It doesn't matter your background for the most part, okay?

If you focus on the price,

most people are willing to pay the price,

but people that focus on the price almost never get the price.

So it's all a matter of what you want out there. But automotive,

I don't care. It's from sales to F and I to service to technicians,

to a rider, whatever it is that you want to do.

You can do it in this industry. Do you agree with that?

I do. That is the great thing about this industry overall.

My adult life, if you always been focused more on the fixed-up side,

I think about dealers.

You know, part of my job was I was coming up to the ranks at Ford was I was out there

calling on dealers and helping them on the business side and looking at fixed-offs

and sales and F and I and you see all of these unique paths.

You know, I swear, you know, yes,

one person may have had their MBA good for you.

That's great. Other people didn't have a degree at all.

And they are there to GM of a store and they were killing it.

Hell, I didn't even have a high diploma and I was right.

It's a perfect example, Russ, and I think of a friend of mine, Ed Roberts,

the, you know, he's a Bowsard Ford and Ed and I got to each other in our,

when I was told, we love Ed to death and isn't he great?

Isn't that an amazing, his story is amazing and coming up through fixed-offs

and I know I'm biased, you know, so I'll admit that.

So I don't want to offend the, I don't want to offend the F and I guys or the sales

guys, but I'm just telling you that my humble personal opinion,

what I observed generally was the best run stores that I saw were those guys

that had come up through fixed-offs because they understood that that was the

foundation of your store.

It's a foundation of your entire success and it starts with that consumer

experience.

And if you got that right, the selling the car side is going to be so much easier

and you have a relationship of trust or your F and I is easier.

It's just easier.

Dave, isn't it amazing what Ed is a personal friend of ours of the show as

well, more than once, a big promoter of his book.

Look at what he's done at him and Jeremy in, in mobile service.

Oh my gosh, they're, they're the unicorn of it's, I know we're getting off

on tangent.

Chair, he's going, I have a question, I have a question.

So we're going to ask this question, Dave.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look, let's go.

Well, let me ask you this, Dave, dealers are desperate for technicians is

making certification easier the right or the wrong answer.

It's the wrong answer.

Look, and I, and I get it.

Thank you.

So sorry to keep going back to, you know, the four days, but, you know,

that was part of my responsibilities.

Well, I had recall and warranty and, and technician recruiting responsibilities

to support the dealers.

And in the short term, you know, and this is, and this is a trouble with our

business.

Let's, let's be honest about it.

In my, in my humble opinion, the problem with our business, in general, with,

and I think about the dealer side and the OEMs, it was hard for us to look past

the next 30 days.

We always talk about long term and needing to be strategic and all of these

things, but it was so hard to look past the next 30 days because, guess what,

as a dealer has a guy running fixed ops or the front end of the store, your

bonus, your pay was tied directly to what happened over the next 30 days.

And so it was very tempting, right?

It just poll lovers to get some short term gratification, but I'm telling you,

it never pans out.

And so it's, this ties right into sending your guys to training on the fixed

upside, right?

Here you have, you already have capacity problems in your store.

And yet here I'm being expected and your technicians want it too,

because they want to be professionals to be able to go to a more training and,

and you don't want to let them go because you know, you're going to lose the

next few days.

Think about what's going to happen over the next six months, the next year,

the next three years.

You're going to, you're going to retain the guy.

You're going to have a better, a more capable person that's going to be more

productive.

You just got to keep looking at this as I'm investing, I'm investing it.

And sometimes you got to shut out that 30 day window.

So to your question charity, if I, I certification shouldn't matter, guess

what you could do that, but you're going to have a bunch of oil rack,

lubricate guys is what it amounts to.

If it can't grow into the store and do more.

And I'm not diminishing what we do on the lubricate.

It's really important.

It is a fantastic place to start.

It's, it's financial for sure.

Yeah, it is.

And that's, it's where you, that's where you get exposed to the business.

But if you want them to progress beyond that and you look at what,

what happens with the tuition numbers, what we see in this is just general

across the industry, and it's whether it's aftermarket,

the dealer or whatever the case may be roughly 50% of tuition in the first

year on the job.

And then the second year, another 50% of what's left from doing my

master.

That's about, yeah, you've lost about 75% on average.

And that's your pool that needs to feed the rest of your shop and your business.

And it's demoralizing to everybody.

It just doesn't work.

So and that's where it may be a little counterintuitive.

Having standards and expectations.

Number one, you know who's serious and who's not.

Because you, that attrition costs you money.

And so as you, as you look for that and then as you encourage it,

you're now developing them.

You're creating a culture of success in your own facility that breeds success.

So anyway, that was a great question, a long answer.

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There's there's more to come, which leads to the next one, charity.

Yeah, no, it was a great answer.

And I appreciate you being thorough.

But let me ask you does certification directly impact retention and customer trust?

Yeah, let me give you some numbers.

And these, this is from some aftermarket stuff that was done a few years ago,

but it was nationwide and it has application across the board.

So I'm not saying your exact numbers will be the same.

But here's, here's what we saw was looking at the did a study of ASC certified

technicians versus non certified.

This was nationwide.

And as they looked at that state, they looked at productivity, productivity,

40% higher productivity, ASC certified versus non certified looking at comebacks.

And then you're talking to the customer, right?

Nothing worse as a customer that I go in again to repair.

And it was more expensive than I thought it should be.

And then I got to bring it back again.

Are you kidding me?

Right? That is a terrible experience.

So 60% fewer comebacks certified versus non certified.

That's substantial.

Yes.

And now now now attrition was another interesting one that ties into what we were

talking about earlier, 30% less attrition.

And so you think about, well, what's the connection?

Well, there is you think about is like, well, guess what?

They're more productive.

They're making more money.

They're a better technician.

It's just a better experience for them.

They're going to be less likely to leave your shop.

That's, that's the reality of it.

And then what we found was this was separately just last year, we did a huge survey

over 36,000 responses from practicing technicians looking at ASC certified

and non certified.

So I had to have the mix of both.

And what we saw consistently is 20% higher pay for those individuals.

Absolutely.

And when you think about it, Russ, you'd recognize it's like, hey, well,

it's no brainer.

Their productivity is 40% higher.

There's at least one part of the explanation and there's others.

So yeah, charity, to me, that is where some of the real proof points are for

don't sell this short.

And I'll say one more thing.

A lot of, we had, we weren't talking about this much.

We'd have been sitting on it for a while before I came into ASC when I got my hands.

I'm like, why aren't we talking about this?

They said, well, because we've talked to a few people and they said, well, just

because, you know, just, you know, they have, they have ASCs and they're getting

better results.

That doesn't mean ASC caused that.

Okay, fine.

I don't care.

You know, they say, well, correlation doesn't mean causation.

Relation has its own value.

I don't have to say because it took an ASC test.

They're all sudden smarter.

No, it's a reflection of who they are.

So I'm identifying people and that correlation is massive.

We should be shouting it from the rooftops.

So, oh, yeah.

And I would argue, yeah, it has some intangible causes because it motivates you to

be better naturally when you get your ASC.

So there you go.

So it causes, it makes you want to strive, particularly if you're gold driven

and you want to climb, there's different levels of certification.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Many levels of ASC certification.

And that means represents many things to, and it could be different, whatever

success is to that person, it could be financial, but it could be many other

things too, couldn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

And when you think about, you know, we'll talk about the automotive series.

We have over a hundred tests out there.

Yeah, lots of things that we can certify, but the ASC certifications for

automotive, there's A1 through A9 and then there's three advanced levels as well.

And the thing I love about it is, and I've seen it, I've talked to people and

asked them about their journeys as to, well, why did you keep pursuing this?

They said, well, first, the first time I had to, I had to get my G1, my,

my general maintenance or I had to get breaks or something.

And so I did it and I didn't, didn't want to do it, but I did it.

And then I succeeded and I said, and I realized, wait a minute.

This is something bigger.

I want this for myself.

And so they went to start taking the rest.

They become master ASC certified masters.

And I think that's, that's an amazing, an amazing thing that happens that

I would say is some causality that experience of going through that process,

realizing they can do this and then recognizing the value in their own life.

And then saying, I'm going to do more, whether the shops can pay me for it or not.

Now, of course, we'd like to shop before it's the right thing to do.

It's a, it's a, to cheap investment.

Well, I mean, all, all the money is going to be a byproduct of you continuing to

be educated and proficient at, you know, the next level, et cetera, I would

thanks.

Charity.

Yeah, I'm going to ask you a somewhat personal professional.

No, personal questions on here whatsoever.

Go ahead.

Well, can you describe yourself as a servant leader?

What does that look like in a high performance, automotive organization?

Weird.

Right.

A servant leader.

Now, with, I kind of get embarrassed at that term.

I mean, it's a term they use out there, right?

Servant leader.

Thank you.

But it probably is the best description, but it makes me sound like I'm better than

I am, I think.

No, I love, I love the term.

And it resonates real well in our industry.

It has, it has significant meeting like ASC does, Dave.

Well, thanks for that, Russ, and what I see is, and everybody comes with their own style.

So there's not a, we all have our natural styles, but I think even with natural styles,

I think that principle of being a servant leader should apply to all of us.

So for me, it probably came, kind of comes easy.

Some of us from my background and about staying humble, recognizing that even though you're

leading something, usually the one leading it knows the least, I'm just being honest

about that.

Well, and it's sometimes hard to admit, right?

Because a lot of times, and I'll say in our profession, you really are, it is the individual

excellence is what it's all about when you're out there turning a wrench, but as you

start to transition to becoming team lead, a form, and nervous manager, P and S director,

whatever the case may be.

And in my case, a very different path on the corporate side, if you're not humble, you

keep thinking, I know it all.

And what happens is people stop talking to you and telling you what's really going

on within your operation.

And then the sad reality is, is you're blind and you don't even know it.

And you keep spouting off all these things we need to do.

At some point, it catches up with you.

And you either fail, in my opinion, or you, or you repent, humble yourself a little bit,

and you start asking, how can I support you?

How can I help you?

What do you see that we need to be doing differently, or I need to be doing differently?

And it changes the entire dynamic, and it, and for me, that's worked.

And my upbringing, I, you know, anyway, I served a, so we're getting personal now.

I served a mission from the LDS church in New Zealand, coming off the farm at Wyoming,

I got sent to New Zealand for eight, eight months.

And you start to learning very quickly about humility and about approaching people

and asking questions.

And even as you start to lead other people, how, how do I make them the most important

thing that, that I'm doing?

Because those are the people that are actually enabling my success.

If you want to look at it selfishly.

And as I do that, it just changes the whole dynamic.

And so, you know, and, and, and when I said it was weird in the automotive industry,

and Russ, you can relate to it.

Hey, we have some egos out there, right?

And that's not all bad, but, but you have some people that, and they've had success

because of their individual capabilities, really intelligent people.

But what I'm telling you is my observation has been that you get to a point,

and I saw it in Ford too.

We all had egos too.

You get to a certain point, and then you kind of stalled out.

Because you lost that forced multiplier that you naturally get if you are actually

working with your people, seeing how you can help them and serve them in sincere ways,

you now have a whole team behind you.

It's not you leading it.

It's the team leading.

And it just makes all the dynamics are really different.

I understand that serving part.

I was involved with an organization for a long time called Living Water Foundation.

It's very humbling when you go to Africa and Nicaragua and other places like that.

And you serve and you come back and how humbled and honored and grateful.

And for this country and all that we have, it's truly amazing.

I have found, and I think I just heard you say this, when somebody, it's like a cascading

stream coming down a mountain, there's a snow melts, right?

It hits a level, and then it starts branching off in different areas.

One of them, maybe it gets damned up by beavers, and it's not crystal clear anymore.

It starts to become a cesspool and gets hot and so on and so forth.

We're the other side.

So I kind of think we're that way.

We have to be open and let it go through and or we become complacent and stagnant.

And I have found that the release for that is supporting to other people.

And that is my only solution is to be of service, get outside of myself, or I become stagnant.

Is that what I heard you say?

Yes.

I think that was a great analogy.

I love that.

I'm going to steal that one, too, because I think that's, yes, okay.

No, but it says it so well, and it made me think of how we, you know, just how we interact

and what happens, but it's that concept of what I think about, you know, when I was at

Ford when I got to, you know, this global executive level, which I never dreamed of, right?

I call my life a slow-motion miracle.

I look back to how did I get here from there, that kid that, you know, I'm telling you,

no money, and just scratching by and just kind of figuring out a day of time and just trying

to do my best, but wanting to be and do more, how did I get from there to here are this

global executive?

And this is part of it, is that recognizing that I'm not the smartest guy in the room.

And this is going to sound a little self-serving, but it's kind of true.

You don't want to, anyway, I'll just say it.

I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I'm good at using the smartest people in the

room.

And I don't mean that in a negative way, highly intelligent people, very capable, but

as a leader, being able to kind of put the pieces of the picture together with those

really smart people in their own right and letting them have the, you know, recognizing

them for it and leaning into it and not being, not being afraid of it or intimidated

by it, but leveraging it and helping them to grow as well.

It just ends up being a win all the way around and that ties back to your, you know, if

you're that person that it's all about me and my ego and I've got to be the smartest

person in the room, you're building those beaver dams that you're talking about.

That's not going to, it's not going to serve you well and have all done.

I've done it.

Not trust me.

I'm not perfect.

I'm a server leader thing bothers me sometimes because I know I'm not perfect, but I can

see the trend, right?

The trend has been that way and if we can all trend that way, everybody's more successful.

Absolutely.

Thank you for sharing that personal stuff.

That's what makes everything that Cherry and I do with the podcast is, is those personal

stories.

Those are some of the things that people really remember most.

This is pretty significant.

Anyway, I know we have so many questions.

We're not even going to even get to a quarter of a charity.

Another one.

Well, this is pretty personal, too, but I figured I know if, you know, after spending

decades in the automotive business, is there anything that still frustrates you about

it?

We're supposed to start.

You know, it's interesting, and especially about the fixed upside thing about being

a technician sometimes you're, we can be known as cynical, right?

And never happy.

And as I look back, we can all fall into that and I was like, it's not a good way to

be happy.

So there's lots of things you can complain about legitimately across our industry.

And I already talked about one, which was now that short-sightedness we all complain

about.

Can we not be a little more strategic?

Can we not?

I got to believe it's in us to do that.

And some of that is the way our industry is structured, the way things grew up, enable

that kind of short-term thinking.

And so some of those things guess what?

You don't change overnight.

But if I would say, I'm going to pick on one that's close to home for me as you're talking

today.

One of those is about how we think of and then treat our service professionals that are

working back there on the floor back into the store.

You often, whether we admit it or not, we start to think of them as a commodity.

And we can just interchange them.

And yet the reality is they are not a commodity.

And as you look at what's happened with vehicle technology within our industry, guess what?

The image of the grease monkey, which I'm guilty of using it myself for a wrench turner,

which I still use that term, is really not a fair term at all.

That's not what this is about.

And the level of intelligence, and I'll say wisdom that's required to be really successful

is off the charts.

And this goes back to that path, I think sometimes they're perceived as, well, that guy couldn't

succeed at doing anything else or going to college or whatever, so he's back there fixing

cars.

No.

That is not true.

Because they chose it and they love what they do and they become good at it.

They didn't start out good.

They grew into it.

And so we need to recognize them for the, I'll say the precious commodity they are.

And then I'll flip it to the other side and say, as one of those service professionals,

what we have to be so careful about is not giving into the cynicism.

Because that is not a way to lead a happy life.

And you're going to be miserable no matter what.

Now, if those circumstances outside of you in your store are making you miserable, well,

change your circumstances.

That's just, you know, talking about our friend Ed, you know, think about Ed.

I know how he treats his people.

I know how that works.

He has all of those things in place.

That's why he's so successful at it because he understands that.

Yeah.

Well, I want to piggyback off something you just said ago about, you know, people with the

ego, their college degree.

Well, not first of all, whatever, however long it takes, most people get it to agree,

whatever field they're going into, 92% of those don't even work in the chosen field.

Most of them come out heavily debt-laden, don't know how they're going to pay back their

student loans.

Well, I know a so-called wrench, turner, technician, whatever you want to cut.

Some of them make $200 plus thousand a year.

Are you kidding me?

They'll, they'll never make that.

That's exactly right.

It's more frustrations.

More frustrations, charity, right?

That's another frustration that bureau of labor statistics, the BLS numbers, they're just

wrong.

And then they're not.

It's because of the way they build them.

We actually met with the BLS last year to try to understand how they come up with some

of the numbers because it was like 40 some thousand was the average pay that they were identifying

and it was like, dude, that is not right, that is not true.

It is much higher than that.

And anyway, you end up into the statistics piece of that.

You're absolutely right, Russ, and that goes back to that image of technicians.

Why I would argue, again, you're going to say, well, it's self-serving Dave, and maybe

it is, but it doesn't mean it isn't true.

That's where these certifications mean something.

It helps to reinforce to others the status of who you are as a professional.

I'm not saying it made you.

It's just a reflection of who you already are.

Other people need to be able to see that.

I think it's a good way to do it.

It's your education.

I was one of those, like I said, all I want to do is turn around.

I didn't care about going to school.

My dad never graduated.

I barely graduated.

School was not a priority for me.

And as I went on, my dad says, hey, when you get to be my age, that concrete floor gets

pretty darn hard.

And you might want to have other things.

He wanted us to go get some further education.

Well, regardless of what path you take, I did that, but guess what?

I was on the five-year plan to get a four-year degree because I was working my way

through school, you know, wrenching a shop, body shop.

I was doing everything I could just to get through it.

And I wasn't that smart, just going to be honest with you.

I go into engineering technology, which meant lots of math, which I hated math.

I love the hands-on piece.

I hated math.

And so if I do this, just because maybe I'm stubborn, but it's about that process, whatever

path you take, right?

And thinking about, do I want to just have a job or do I want to become somebody?

Yes.

It's in that striving to become is where all the good things happen.

And that doesn't mean anything about your income or whatever.

That will come, but it's about you becoming something.

I suspect that you got as far and what the things have happened is probably

in direct proportion to what you gave back, but also your humble and kind.

And long run, that'll get you much further with much more happiness than

somebody who's egotistical and maniac.

And cherry, and I believe, and I think you also agree, too, for all of you out there

listening to this, there's a huge paradigm shift taking place.

And when I'm talking technicians and visors, I'm talking about fixed side of automotive

is big things are happening.

And there is major changes, although it's taken time, but I sit not just because we're

in this and do this and do charity and the podcast and things we're doing to promote

that, but there's things that are changing in a pretty significant way and how people

are referred to and being part of the team, because together, everybody does achieve more.

There was a time where it was so siloed and still lives in some places from sales to

service.

It's like, oh, they're a commodity.

They're an afterthought.

They're not.

They're not part.

No, it's exactly the opposite.

Where do you think the money's made?

Where do you think you likes on them for heaven's sake, you know?

That's right.

Yep, that's right.

The margins are not what they were on the sales side.

You got to get that fixed upside right and everybody plays together and that's where

the success comes.

What gives you the most hope about the next generation of technicians?

Thank you.

That is right on.

I tell you what, start with the negative first, because there's these perceptions out

there.

This generation doesn't want to work.

They don't want to do this.

They don't want to do that.

Guess what?

Or whether you're a baby Booner, Gemax, Millennials, you know, now we're Gen Z.

Hey, everybody's had their criticism.

What I see is some highly intelligent, capable individuals.

And to your point, Ross, about the industry changing, sometimes that next generation forces

the industry to change and it's a good thing.

And I think we're going to see more of that.

But the level of intelligence and capability is off the charts and you see the interest

now.

That stigma that was there about, well, if you don't go to a four year college, you're

a dummy, right?

Or you're not going to succeed.

That is falling off quickly, right?

That whole deal has been laid bare that, hey, nothing wrong with you doing that, right?

But don't assume success, financial success in particular, just because you got a four year

degree.

What you might succeed in getting a lot of debt is what you might succeed at.

And so this idea of I can go into the trades, in our case in the automotive and kids becoming

more and more interested in it, I think is great.

And that idea of their satisfaction in still being able to work with your hands and your

brain.

And I would argue in our industry in particular, there's no better combination.

Like I said, grease monkey days, it's over.

Yeah, you still get dirty.

Guess what?

That's part of it.

But that when you look at the balance of it, when you have vehicles that have

more lines of code in all the systems than a fighter jet have, you know, on average 50

modules nowadays, and you get into the high end over 100 modules, you have self-driving

capability.

I call them rolling robots.

I am so excited about the future for everybody, and then particularly for these young folks,

because they're going to find that, hey, wow, all these things I learned in school and

what's required of me, it's just more.

And that's not a bad thing.

But it also means you need to know what you're doing, but the future is bright.

And the pay is going to be there.

And when AI wrecks everybody else's careers, yours is still going to be standing.

Yeah.

Well, well, well said, I just recently was watching a recording of Jim Farley, Ford, right?

I'm talking about his own games and going to college.

And everything is these welders, technicians, those are the frontline things that happen

and that people are focused.

That's where the security of the, that's where everything is at, I believe right now.

We have a huge shortage, didn't even get a chance to really address that.

We have so, it's, it is a wide open opportunity for all of you out there, even considering not

to become a grease monkey, not to become a wrench turn, but to become a technician.

And with AI and data and where everything is going, the future is so bright, you, I mean,

am I right?

You're absolutely right.

And thinking about you may not want to be a technician, your whole, that's not a failure.

I call our industry a career lattice, not a career ladder.

There are so many paths that you get to take and, and the opportunities are just immense.

And so we need to do better at trying to expose that and we're working on that as well.

And back to what Jim said, I love what Jim's been saying.

He's been straring the pond a little bit out there and, and I would say in a good way.

Because these are the things that we need to work on.

There are these unfilled jobs.

The opportunities are great.

No, you aren't necessarily going to make $100,000 a year when you come right out of school.

It's not going to be that, but you can quickly grow into it.

And it's all about what do you want to be?

What do you want to become?

If you want to do it, the opportunities are there.

Yeah, I think it's probably, thank you for sharing that.

I know we're out of time, but so recently, and you have quite the 10 year was forward.

We're now a certified partner with not only Ford, for direct to shop and Ford,

but we know that their collective, what they're focusing on right now is customer pay retention.

That's so huge because of the defection rate and all the things that we came get into,

but it's going to be an amazing ride.

And I'm really happy to see a lot of motive or that big and others are following suit too.

We have to, the cost of hiring and everything goes into it to only retain 50% or you lose up to it.

It's just, it's so costly and the consumers are the ones that pay the price.

Well, I think we need to have another session, guys.

I mean, I'm just inviting myself because we only scratch the surface today and reserve the right

because we got to maybe five out of 25 questions.

So we have to come back, but Jerry, go ahead.

No, well, I guess the final question we have for you, Dave,

is are there any things we didn't talk about today that you wish we had?

Well, look, I think we covered some great ones and I can't think of anything off the top.

I just know there's, there's more, right?

There's just more in general we could discuss, but I think about from a fixed stop standpoint.

Now, I think we hit the key, to me, the key one is what are we doing to retain, first of all,

the folks that we have and to attract more, those two things are inextricably tied together.

And so if I'm a fixed obsolete or you need to be looking or if I'm the GM or the dealer principle,

that you got to get back there in the back end and go look and see what's going on on my financial,

the financial structure I have to incentivize my leaders is it setting us up for success or failure.

You may not like some of the things you see, but it can be fixed.

So keep working at it.

Thank you so much.

Talk about an extremely successful podcast with Dave Johnson, president CEO, ASC, come on.

All of you know, you need to like him, love him, reach out to him, et cetera, get involved.

Okay, get him all, but I also want to do so I have done this in a while.

Dave, we wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for charity, okay?

She's the mastermind, she's the brains behind most of this.

I just really just show up.

I've been in the industry, it's just it's like she is my right arm and my left arm.

And she came up with this idea and came up with the same WTF.

Now, what do you think most people's minds go when they say WTF, right?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

All right, so she did this on purpose five years ago.

This is the beginning of our fifth year with the, and you know, a lot of people during the,

wanted to start a podcast, but never did.

They were waiting for this, waiting for that.

And we just got into it, got busy, started inviting people on and now here we are with

you.

And it has been quite the honor and we're both extremely humble to have this opportunity

spend with you.

And you already mentioned it because we have it recorded that you, we reserve the right

to have you back on to finish some of the other things.

Great, great.

And charity, what an amazing platform and, and it's a privilege for me to get to join

you.

I appreciate it.

Well, thank you for carving an hour out of your day for us.

We appreciate it very much.

We will.

We will.

All right.

Very good.

Thank you.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

Yes.

Okay.

We will have it that we will all right.

Very good.

Thank you.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.

That's a wrap for another successful WTS.