GEB America - powered by Oral Roberts University - Sep 12 - 4:30 am

0:00The views and opinions expressed on this program are solely those of the speakers and not necessarily those of GEB America, or Al Roberts University, or their employees. This program is not intended to offer investment, financial, medical, legal, or any other advice. Viewers should consult a subject matter professional regarding any such matters. Hi everyone, I'm David Groves, GEB America General Manager, and the co-host of the GEB America podcast. I want to welcome you to another special episode today here in the studios of GEB. You know, recently we've had some really great guests talking about leadership, thought processes on leadership, and today we have a real treat for you, the president of Oral Roberts University, who is an amazing leader in his own right, sat down with the renowned

1:01expert of our lifetime, John Maxwell. He took some time in the studio with him to talk to him about vision, what to do, if God has given you this big vision, where do you start, and of course, some great topic tips on leadership. So what we want you to do today is enjoy this podcast, but you've got to share it with a friend or a family member, hit that bell on YouTube so you're always notified when we drop new episodes and new special videos. And remember, whatever platform you like to listen to or watch your podcast on, whether it's Spotify or Apple or one of the many others, follow us, subscribe, and be sure that you share the podcast episode today with John Maxwell and Dr. Billy Wilson on your social media. Now, I hope you enjoy this episode, and I appreciate you as always, being a valuable member of our podcast family. Hello, I'm Dr. Billy Wilson, president of Oral Roberts University, and I'm coming to you from the David and Barbara Green Center for Global Leadership. And today we have with us a very special guest.

2:02He is probably the leadership expert in all the world. He's one of my friends. I've read multiple volumes of his books. It's informed my leadership journey in a great way, and we're just so honored to have John Maxwell with us today. John, welcome to ORU. Welcome to our leadership podcast. Great to be with you. It's going to be a great day to share with this leadership expert. Today, we're going to be talking about vision. Now at ORU, we have a number of initiatives and goals for our students. They're called outcomes. We talk about spiritual integrity. We talk about personal resilience, global engagement, intellectual pursuit. But the final goal we work on with every student that comes to ORU is bold vision. And today I want to talk about vision. How vision comes to us, and then what do we do when we feel like God has given us something he wants us to pursue? So let's start right at the top, John. How do you know when you're getting a vision that maybe

3:02something God wants you to do? How do you know that? You've had lots of them when you're like, you know that? I've had some visions. I'm not sure that God wanted me to do. I think I had some personal visions. I think some of those two. Well, I think there's nothing wrong with some personal visions and goals for yourself. But I think the difference is, I think when it's a God vision, it always has value to other people. It's not about me. It's about them. And I think that so many times when people think of their vision, they think of what they want to accomplish. And I think it's more what could I help other people accomplish? If I stay it, if I keep it with just me, as you know, Dr. Wilson, it's going to stay small. But at the moment I include others, it just begins to enlarge and becomes bigger. No doubt about it. Yeah, we know people off the Scripture that really made history are visionaries. Abraham was a visionary Moses, David, the Apostle Paul, obviously, had great visions. And Jesus was a visionary. He envisioned a

4:04future for his church and his followers that was way beyond what they saw at the moment. No doubt. Now, when you feel like that God has birthed something in you and you've got a vision, what do you do then? I mean, that's what I really want to talk about with those that are watching is what do you do with this thing that you feel like is a vision from God? Well, first of all, I think if it's a God vision, you understand that he's the source. And he'll provide the resources. I had a person one time who shared with me, this is several years ago, they said, I think God called me to be an evangelist, but nobody's booking me. You may be called yourself. You know what I mean? I think if it's a God vision, he's going to provide the way and he's going to help us to accomplish what he's laid on our heart. You know, one of the things that I teach, I think that will be very helpful to all of us, is that there's really only one thing that all great leaders have in common. I mean, regardless of country, culture, as I've studied leadership and taught leadership

5:06around the world. And that is that the great leaders, they see more than other see, and they see before other see. So they see a bigger picture, and they see it a little bit more quickly. And so I think that's the, I think that's what sets the great leaders apart from others. And what's beautiful is that if we understand that, there are things that we can do to see more, and there's things that we can do to see before. But I think that's what sets vision is really what sets the leader apart from everybody else. I think so, John. Now, John Maxwell Leadership 101 says leadership is influence. Okay. So I know I got that down. You got it. But I'll let you just go ahead. Talk to them. To say one of my favorite definitions of leadership is not that. It's your, your, what about favorites, but break my heart. No, one of my favorite definitions of leadership is about Warren Bennes who said leadership is the capacity to translate a vision into reality. It's a great, I love that. Yeah. And of course, you're influencing people the whole time you're

6:11doing that. Yes. And I can I talk about that because that's one of my favorite definitions. And as you said, Warren Bennes, I knew exactly what to say. And I think it is a great definition of success. I would like to really get practical here for a moment. That's good. That's what we want. Because you know as well as I do, if I see the vision, but I have the, don't have the capacity to help other people see it, the, this vision is not going to do well. I think great leaders take their vision from me to we. And I tell people, if there's not, if there's not a we in the vision, if it's just me, it's going to be probably too small. So let's, let's, let's talk about that for a moment. When I think of communicating a vision, when I look at my team, the people I'm leading, my audience when I'm speaking, there are four questions I ask myself. And these four questions really help bring not only clarity to the vision, but it really makes the, I think these,

7:12these four questions make the vision contagious. So I'm going to give them an order when, when I look at my team or if I like today, I've had the privilege of speaking here, or Robert University with so many of the business people in the community. When I, when I look at the people in front of me, the first question I ask myself is what do I want the people to see? And, and what I want the people to see is possibility. So that's who I am. I'm kind of like a possibility teacher, communicator. When, when, when I'm teaching them, I want them to see possibilities that they've never, perhaps even dared to reach for. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a little lifter. And so when I teach and when I lead, I'm very intentional. I want them to see their possibilities. Now what do I want them to know? That's the second question. Well, I want them to know that I value them because I've discovered that until people know that you really value them, there's not much you can do to add

8:14value to them. So it really is caring for people, loving for people, being Jesus like obviously. So I want them to know that I value them. Now I go, what do I want them to feel? That's good. I want them to feel empowered. I want them to feel that when I'm finished, that they can accomplish the challenge I've given them. I want them to realize that, that they can do this. And they have a kind of a spirit of, I'm going to go do this. And I think, you know, I don't want the people to look at me and say, he's amazing. I want them to look at themselves and say, I'm amazing. And God's amazing. And look what we can do. So I want them to see their possibilities. I want them to know that they're valued. I want them to feel empowered. And then what do I want them to do? I want them to apply what I've taught and multiply. Because my audience is leadership. What I do is I try to add value to leaders who multiply value to others. I want them to apply this to their life. But then I want them to multiply it to others. Now the reason I say that,

9:15of course, you know that you're a terrific leader and a visionary yourself. But the reason I say that to the people that would be watching us today is I think great vision begins with intentionality. I think that once I know what I want them to see, know, feel and do, if I speak directly to those four things, they will see it and know it and feel it and do it. And I think that's the response we're looking for. But I don't think we get the response that we're looking for until we know the response that we're looking for. We begin with the end in mind. So I think a lot of times people think of vision as I just cast this incredible future of what we could be. And I'm looking at I say really until you connect with where they are, you can't take them to where to where you're going. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So it's simple, but it really works for me as as far as when I try to help people kind of catch the big picture. I just ask those four questions. So John, you've become obviously one of the leadership experts in all the world. Maybe the

10:17leadership expert, your books have been prolific. Me and the people have read them. I have, so have so many other leaders around the world. What was the driving vision that pushed you to move into leadership development at such a high level? I love the question because there was a driving vision. I can remember well when I was 24. I started off as a pastor, okay? And so I have my little first church, like everybody did. Well, you had a pretty big church in San Diego too. Yeah, it got big. But again, if you understand leadership, that's why I think that's part of what happened. But I remember when I was 24, I could still remember after six months to a year of just really thinking about this thought. One day, I just said, no, this is I buy, I buy into this. I remember the day I said to myself, everything rises and falls on leadership, everything. Not most things, everything is true, I think. In government, I think it's true in education, I think it's true in business. I think it's true in the church world. Everything rises and falls on

11:17leadership. You know, Dr. Wilson, when I came to that conclusion, I asked myself, what could I do better than give my life to helping people learn to leave? But if I can help them learn to lead, they're going to do well in their life. So that was kind of my passion. What's interesting is, I was 24, I'm 78 now. So 54 years later. Here's what I know. What I thought was true at 24, I know it's true at 78. And it's kind of wonderful to put 50 years of your life plus into something that as a young person, you felt to be true and you discovered it is true. And then say, I'm really kind of stayed in this leadership lane all my life because everything still rises and falls on leadership. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's a great insight. And I think, I propelled you to a lifetime of equipping people literally over the world, the largest equipping leadership equipping agency in the world. You're 78 years old now, John. Yeah, yeah.

12:21What's your compelling vision today? Well, I have one. Okay. In fact, let me if I can just put it in context a moment, I have 14 books yet to write that I know of. I mean, I've got a one. Yeah, I have a killing. No, because I haven't gotten all my writing in that. But I've got there in the kind of like in the birthing book line, you know, you know, write me. And one of the books I would love to write, I would like to it's in the form of a question that is, is there a finish line? Yeah. And I think for the vast majority of people, there is. I mean, I think it's itself in post, I think. But I think somebody will say, when I get a certain age, I'm going to retire, or make so much money, or whatever. And I have no finish line. If you have a finish line, if I say at this age, I'm going to, you know, stop or whatever. What I have to understand is when I cross that line, I'm finished. And is there anything more sad than a person that still has life?

13:26But somehow they kind of gave up and said, well, I'm kind of done. And I look at them and say, no, you're not done. You know, if you're still alive, God still has plans for your life. So I think when you ask the question, which is such a great question, I don't think I'll ever cross my finish line. I think I will strive to get there. But I'm not, I don't even think I want to cross it. I want to keep pressing toward that mark. But for me, in 2000, if you'll remember, if all I have to really say to you, if somebody, our age is the word, en-ron, and you mean, immediately think of businesses that said one thing, but totally didn't back it up with their actions. You know, in other words, what they put on the walls of their offices, they didn't have in their walk. And I just got to get off the wall. It's got to get it, it's got to be the walk. And time Warner asked me to write a book on business ethics. And I said, well, I can't do that. And they said, well, I said, because there's no such

14:26things as business ethics. And they said, what do you mean? And they're talking about Enron, Tyco and all these companies. And I said, what do you mean? And I said, there's just ethics. It's really just ethics. Now, if you have them, they work in business. So, hey, oh, happy day. But I you have to have them. And that was a, that, as I look back, that was very pivotal for me. Because up into that time, I was teaching leadership skills, but I really wasn't yet talking too much about leadership values. And all of a sudden, I realized that leadership skills is about training, but leadership values is about transformation. And the heart's got to be right. We have to be better on the inside than we are on the outside. And so that kind of put me on a track of saying, we've trained a lot of leaders, but are there going to be transformation in their leadership? Well, that's good enough. So we, uh, about 12, 13 years ago, we said, let's, let's go into countries and see if we can have small groups around tables, just like a table like we're sitting at right

15:29now and teach values. And, you know, Malcolm Godwell talks about the tipping point. So we said, what would happen if we could get over 10% of the population of a country sitting around tables and, and, and really learning, discussing good values, what would happen? So we started with Guatemala. Somebody said, well, you know, why'd you start with Guatemala once? Because I'd have them in Florida. It was easy to get to Guatemala. I'm not going to start it in Australia. It's too, it's, you know, you, you've got to give it a lot of time and attention. And I think we're, we've been there for 13 years now. I think they have about 20 million people. I think we have, I think we are in round table, small groups. I think we've put 2.8 million through it already. And, uh, I was there about a year ago with the president of Guatemala and, uh, and we were on national TV. It was talking to the country and he was saying that the values that we're learning are helping change us. And when people learn good values and live good values, they just become more valuable to themselves and others. And so my vision today, you know, if you say, what's your,

16:32what do you, what do you really want to accomplish? I, I, I would like to see a nation transform. There you go. You know, John Wesley is a great model. I think, I think personally in the Christian world after the Apostle Paul, I think John Wesley was probably the greatest leader. And, you know, even secular historians give him credit for transforming England. And as you know, he, he mentored Wilberforce and through Wilberforce, they literally got slavery abolished and, and, and which lick, or which, uh, Wesley called the cancer of the country. So I have a, I have a, uh, a dream, a vision of, of, of seeing it happen in my, in my lifetime where I can look and say, you know, and somebody said, well, how do you know that the country's transformed? I said, you'll know the country's transformed when the secular community says it. Yeah. Not when the Christian community says it. And, uh, and when that president, Guatemala said that the country was changing because

17:35of the, of the values I thought, okay, this is a little glimpse of what's going to happen. So good. I hope to see it. No, fantastic. No finish line transforming countries. Total equipping leaders still got 14 books to write. Yeah. I talked to God about, I talked to God about, I talked to God about the other day. I said, you know, you really need to let me live a little bit longer. I can't do, I can't crack 14 books out that quickly. And, uh, you know, but, but I honestly think that, really a person of vision dies with the vision still inside of them. I don't, I don't think like, there's a time when I say the vision is now complete. I, I, I, I, I, you know, it, I think it's bigger than this. And, and I think we need to have something beyond us. I had a mentor. Wow, this was so important when I was in my 20s who said, John, I want you to attempt something so big for God. Yeah. That if it happens, people who know you will say, you're not that good. That's right.

18:41And they, they would give God all the credit. That's the way I live. And that's, and I thought, isn't that beautiful? I know you're Maxwell. You're not that good. That's right. But look what's happened. And only God can get the credit. I think that's a good way to live, don't you? Amen. One last question. Okay. And, uh, you know, the Bible says young men will see vision. Yes. Us guys, we're dreaming dreams and our age. Yes, yes. But young men will see vision. I want you to look right into the camera and talk to a young person. Yeah. Who feels like God is birthing something in them. It's bigger than they are. What are they supposed to do? What should they do with this that God is working in? That's a great question. My friend, let's just talk to you for a moment. When God gives you a vision, if it's like me, you'll look at it and you'll say, wow, that's, that's bigger than me. And that's the position you want to be in. You want to always see what you're trying to accomplish and understand without him. We can do nothing. Now, when I was a young leader,

19:48and I started off on my vision, I was working hard, and I was a pastor and the church was really growing. And when I went through a period of a few months where I was talking to God about, you know, the words for Lord without me, you can do nothing. And I was pointing and I said, well, you know, I've done this and I've done that. I wasn't in an argumentive kind of mood. I was just, I was trying to figure it out. I've done this. And after a few months, God said, yeah, you've done these things. But when I say without me, you can do nothing. What I'm really saying to you is, without me, you can do nothing that has eternal consequences. And that was the day that I realized for me to be the catalyst for the vision God gave me, I have to understand that He is the total source. That I've got to do my best and use my gifts for His glory, but He's the source. And because of that, I think of what Paul said when he was talking to the church at Philippi. And he was

20:55talking about my God could do all things greater than what you can, more than you could ever imagine, more than you could ever think, more than you could ever dream way beyond your wildest dreams. But then he says something very important that God is going to do the work within you. According to the power in you. That's this is the day that I realized, isn't it amazing? All these great things can happen, but He is going to do it in me, for me, and through me so that it begins to change out of life. That is not only humbling, it is incredibly to me motivating. The fact that God can do that kind of work in your life. And so for you that are young, I want you to know that the dreams and the visions that God gives you, He wants to bring them to pass. If He laid it on your heart, He wants to make it a reality. And He's going to do a work within you. And I think the key is being humble and just saying, God, you do the work within me. I'm comfortable with giving you all the credit. I'm comfortable to be sure to point to you as the source. But just you do the

22:01work within me and I'll serve. I'll do my very best. When I realized that He thought bigger dreams than I had for myself. And when I realized that He was going to use me to accomplish that, doing the work within me, it was very motivating to me. And that's very true for you too. So the work that He's begun, He wants to complete. And I just want to encourage you, allow Him to do that work within you. And just be obedient. Be obedient. At 78, I can look back and I can connect. And you can probably also, though you're not near as old as I am, I can look back and I can connect the dots looking backward. But going forward, you can't connect the dots. You just live in obedience. Abidance is only understood on the back end, not the front end. So just be obedient. Be a servant. Ad value to people. Stay in the game. Let him do his work within you. And then give him all the glory and give him all the praise. Amen. Thank you. Well, thank you for joining us today.

23:01It's been a delight to have leadership expert guru, apostle of leadership in the world. John Maxwell with us on this leadership broadcast. I know your life has been touched and blessed. We want you to live with bold vision. Yes. And we want you to see the dreams and visions. God puts in your heart. Come to pass for his glory. So thank you again for joining us today. And John, thank you for being at ORU. You're always welcome here. I love ORU. And we're cheering you on. Thank you so much. Those 14 books, give me some of them. I want to read them when you get them done. You already know. You don't finish line as you push on through for God. We're cheering you on. God bless you. Thanks for being here today. Oh, my joy. Thanks for having me. Great. Thank you for joining us for the GEB America podcast. Be sure to follow us or subscribe on the

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