Golf’s Ultimate Goal: Shooting Your Age or Lower | Mulligans

Hey, it's Josh Carp and it's Friday, which means that we are airing a Gulls Martyr Mullgens episode from the Archives.

Next week, we'll have a new interview on Tuesday with Gulls' Dorian's Stephen Proctor, so tune in and we're gonna have a special giveaway.

This week's re-run is episode 500, Gulls' ultimate goal, shooting your age or lower with Richard Sezna.

Gulls' Smarter Number 500! Happy birthday, Craig!

Published on August 4th, 2015.

Gulls' ultimate goal, shooting your age with general manager of Paradise Valley Gulls, Rich Sezna.

This is Gulls' Smarter Premium. Here's your host, Fred Green.

Welcome to the Gulls Smarter Podcast, Rich. Thank you for inviting me, I appreciate it very much.

It's great to have you on and it's great to have you in your own community here.

I'm gonna take notes as we have our conversation, I hope you don't mind.

And also, not only will we have a Q&A, but we also have some trivia questions and maybe you can win some prizes when we're all done.

And we have some gifts for you when we're done as well.

We are live here at the Paradise Valley Estates in Fairfield, California, which is right near Travis Air Force Base in Northern California.

And this is really fun for me to be here with all of you today. Thank you so much.

Rich, briefly, tell me your history in golf, and then I have other questions for you about that.

I played high school golf, and then went on to San Diego Golf Academy, ran out of money in the story of many golfers.

The United States Air Force played golf in the United States Air Force a lot of golf, actually tried out for the Air Force golf team and made the team, but got bumped because the major that was retiring unretired.

Of course, so I went back to my duties on the flight line, but spent four years in the Air Force, and at the time I volunteered at a golf course near Luke Air Force Base.

Which at the time was the only tack base that did not have a golf course.

So I volunteered, and while I'm volunteering, then I had access to both professional and amateur events.

I always played as an amateur then.

Individual that I worked with at this golf course went on to work for the PGA tour.

Well, my enlistment was coming up, and I was torn between re-up and, or whether or not I wanted to stay in golf.

Unfortunately for the military, I hope, but fortunately for me, I chose golf, and I went to work for the PGA tour then.

When did you start playing?

I started playing actually in high school. I didn't start.

Oh, really? As a youth, my dad played triple A baseball.

Oh.

For the Philadelphia Phillies organization.

Wow. He was a catcher.

So the years that he played, he was a home run hitter and a strikeout artist.

So I grew up playing baseball.

Okay.

And I injured my shoulder in a bicycle accident between my eighth and ninth year.

And so I didn't, I wasn't going to be able to play baseball that year.

So one of the, one of my buddies who played golf told the golf coach you had asked Rich to try out for the team.

So I did. I went out and thought it was great, but baseball season was coming up.

And I tried out for baseball again, but the baseball coach and the golf coach had gotten together and decided that I was playing golf.

Oh, really?

I wasn't playing baseball.

Now it's for the right reason.

I was, in ninth grade, I was five feet tall, way to 100 pounds.

So that's a golfer's body.

Yeah, it was better for golf than it was for baseball.

So, uh, sir, I ended up on the golf team.

So was it the golf coach who was pushing the baseball coach?

You know what?

I don't know.

Take him.

Yeah, take him.

I don't know that the two of them conspired to do it, but they made the great choice.

Yeah.

Um, first year, my 10th grade played pretty well.

I picked up the game fairly fast.

The fact that I was playing a lot of different sports, being athletic helped.

The baseball movement does help.

There is some things that can hinder a golf swing from baseball.

Um, but I then went on and got a job at the golf, local golf course.

I fell in love.

I couldn't.

I mean, that was it.

I was hooked.

Happened to everybody.

It does.

So I, uh, then the next year I became, um, I was third on the team.

And then the following year, I was, uh, most improved golfer.

Oh.

So I was progressing.

And I was enjoying at an awful lot.

So where did that, how did that get you to become a PGA professional?

Well, after I left the Air Force and joined the PGA tour,

I immediately then joined PGA of America as a apprentice program.

Um, you're supposed to get it about, uh, achieve your apprenticeship to a class A golf professional

about 36 months.

I did it in 28.

I wanted it.

I really wanted it.

I loved the game.

And I wanted this to be my profession.

So once I became a class A golf professional, then that gives you the opportunity to then

explore exploring other jobs within the golf industry.

So I spent 11 years working for the PGA tour.

And then in 2001, Kemper Sports, who I currently work for, uh, who we, we just hosted the,

uh, US Open, Chambers Bay.

Uh, they hired me away.

Yeah.

That didn't go, uh, from Kemper Sports, I'm sorry to distract on that, but actually,

uh, keep in mind that, um, when the USGA comes in to set up an event.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what golf course it is, it's going to be hard.

It is a US Open.

It's supposed to be the hardest testing out fast.

It's going to be very difficult.

Rough will be tall.

But for us, it's a huge success.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Having it there.

We're the first golf management company to ever be selected to host a US Open.

Uh, as opposed to a specific course or country club.

Exactly right.

Interesting.

And a completely different venue.

Right.

Yeah.

But do they have any sense that they think maybe it's not coming back to Chambers Bay?

Because there were so many complaints by the, by the, even the Hall of Famers where it

had issues with, with the golf course.

Well, I think, uh, I think if you look at the results.

Yeah.

And the numbers that these golfers shot, um, some of them shot some very low rounds.

Right.

So the guys that, that shot 74, 75, 76 are probably going to complain.

But they'd complain at any golf course they played.

Right.

But no, I don't, I think, uh, it'll certainly be back to Chambers Bay.

Was it, uh, Nicholas or Palmer that talked about, um, you know, when a, when a player complains

that it doesn't suit their game.

It's like, sorry, you're supposed to suit your game to the course.

That's right.

That was Nicholas.

In fact, it was.

He identified those that were complaining and knew he eliminated them from the field.

Interesting because it wasn't a positive approach.

Everybody is playing the exact same golf course.

For every event.

So, uh, now, um, doing a little more research on you, uh, before you, you started playing golf in high school,

you had a very interesting life.

Get, share that.

Tell us a story about where you were doing as a young boy.

Well, for anybody that's interested in looking it up, look up, kidco, K-I-D-C-O.

It was a movie about, uh, my life when I was, uh, a young man.

Uh, when I turned 11, I started my own company.

I incorporated.

And I became the youngest president of any corporation in the history of the United States at that time.

I don't know what it is today.

Uh, we, um, signed an agreement with, uh, the developer in our area to maintain the seven major streets,

so that when they were bringing prospective clients out,

they wanted no construction to bring whatsoever on the streets.

And how old were you?

You were 11.

And you said, we, uh, I have one.

Do you have adults working for you?

Well, I, we did.

In fact, I was one of, I'm one of 10 kids.

I grew up in the farming and ranching industry.

And, uh, the four youngest children were the four that were involved in kidco.

And then we, because we didn't have anybody of legal age,

we hired my dad as our general manager.

So we had somebody that could at least sign the documents.

It's sign the checks, yeah.

Absolutely.

And we, we get involved in cell, we weren't, we had a lot of horses on our property.

And we started selling horse manure as fertilizer to the local developer.

Because by California code, you had to encourage growth when you put in a new road for embankments.

And the developer found a way to do it for relatively cheap compared to, uh,

springing or, uh, what any other means of putting vegetation down.

So once the, uh, board of equalization got a hold of that,

they thought for sure that we were a front for my dad.

And so once they came in, they filed charges against us.

They threatened us with jail time.

It got really crazy.

Well, that was an invite to send that out to the media.

My dad was a great promoter.

And so he did so.

It immediately hit the news wires.

And I ended up on Mike Douglas and Merv Griffin for folks in the audience who remember those.

Oh, yeah.

Kids are people too.

I was on Ronald Reagan's program twice when he was governor.

In fact, I have a famous line from one of his shows.

I said, um, if I was old enough, I would vote for you twice.

And Ronald Reagan has written me several times.

He had handwritten notes.

Really?

You know what I mean?

Oh, that's awesome.

So I had an exciting career as a young man.

And Hollywood picked up the story and then made the movie called Kidco.

You're kidding.

No.

It's about you.

It's about myself and my three sisters and what we did with our own business.

Okay.

Got to look up the movie Kidco.

Yes.

If you were a staff member of the Board of Equalization in the late 70s when this was going on,

they weren't very happy because the number of individuals that called in to their facility in San Diego

repeated those calls so often that it shut down their phone system time and time again.

And they literally came up with a way for us to be exonerated.

Oh my gosh.

Oh, it was terrific.

Great story.

It was a great life growing up.

Yeah.

Great story.

Great story.

Let's get back to golf a little bit.

And you're talking about Chambers Bay, Kemper Sports.

And it seems like numbers are high for great tournaments like this watching.

But let's talk about the state of the industry right now.

It seems as if there are golf courses closing all over the country.

Not many are being built anymore.

I think in 2014 I read four courses opened in the United States and one was closing every 11 days.

Correct.

What's going on?

We are no different than any other industry.

We are subject to our own economy, whether it be a micro economy or not,

but we're also subject to major recessions.

So there's going to be in every industry retractions.

During the 90s we were building two, three, four hundred courses a year based on the prediction

that we would never run out of the golfers.

We ran out of golfers as the segment of golfers changed.

We then started declining numbers.

So it's a natural retraction.

It's unfortunate it's the industry I'm in and I love it.

But you are going to have to have this balance.

Many experts say that we have about 16,000 golf courses within the United States.

Many experts say that a healthy balance is probably 12,500.

So seeing so many golf courses close is just a result of too many being built.

What do you think was the factor that got all the excitement of courses, the glut of courses being built?

A couple of things.

There was a major report put out in the late 80s that stated that if we were so short on golf courses,

the supply needed to be increased dramatically.

Once developers figured out that you can sell more homes quicker for a higher value along the golf course

and municipalities figured out that they could do the same thing.

Municipalities also figured out that they could convert green space,

which legally they needed to have percentage of green space in the city,

instead of it being a park to be a golf course.

That also provided residents the opportunity to get in and on to the golf course for a much lesser fee.

So there was this kind of a storm that was created, unfortunately, to end it up with too many golf courses.

And just around that time, there was this lightning rod on television charismatic golfer

who was just dominating the sport as if it's never been done before Tiger Woods.

Tiger Woods, it's exactly right.

When I worked for the PGA tour, you could sell when the best players in the world,

honestly, Tiger were leading a golf event.

How?

There was a different type of energy.

And when the tournament ended each day, the range would be flooded with people.

Interesting.

The range at the event?

At the golf facilities.

Oh, everywhere in the country.

Yeah.

Oh, I know.

Yes, definitely.

There was a storm that had been created.

It was a great energy.

Right.

So once with Tiger, you've got Tiger Woods, he played course sensational for 10 or 12 years.

He's had his personal challenges.

And as we all know, golf is more psychological than it is physical.

The best golf swings don't win every week.

The best mind does.

Okay.

So we're back to...

You can control it.

You've got to be able to control your brain, control your emotions on the golf course.

If there's a lot going on in your world, it's difficult to win a golf tournament.

Right.

Thank you.

I actually had a conversation with a former Touring Pro.

And he said that most people don't understand that when you're on tour,

you have to be able to eat and digest anything.

You have to be able to sleep on any kind of bed with no problem.

Correct.

You have to adjust to any time zone with no issue.

And as far as not getting emotionally involved with the people you meet,

after the round of golf, you have to block that out of your mind.

And that's something we don't realize how complicated, how difficult it is for somebody to be on the tour.

What a grind it is.

We all see the four days worth, but we don't see beyond that.

That's right.

While I was working for the PGA Tour, I used to take time off and travel and teach golf

and go to Hawaii and Kabul and different locations throughout the Southwest.

I did that repeatedly.

And when you get home, you're tired.

Yeah.

And when you go to another location and you're expected to turn it on,

because you've got a whole group of clients coming in that don't care whether or not

you're tired or not.

Exactly.

They want to start the golf instruction.

They want to do what's on their schedule.

So I feel for the guys that travel and do this for a living.

It's a very tough business.

Very tough business.

Now let's talk about the state of the game.

There's technology has changed the game radically.

Technology and golf balls, technology and golf clubs.

In the last 10, 15 years.

And it seems like because people are hitting it so much farther,

golf courses are getting longer and longer.

But they're building golf courses longer for the touring pros, not for us.

That's correct.

And, you know, there's some courses that I don't have a problem getting the ball in the fairway,

but getting the ball close is a lot harder.

I mean, the short game really is kind of disappeared because everything is so long, so long.

But we even did an episode once called it's not about how long it's about how close.

That's correct.

There's a titleist commercial right now that talks about the golf ball doesn't know who's hitting it.

Right?

So it doesn't matter what game you have.

Play the game according to your satisfaction.

What makes you happy?

Don't play it at 7,000 yards.

Play it at 5,000 yards.

Play it at 4,000 yards.

Unless you're playing in USDA events and you need to run to the computer after each round

and file with the USDA, don't tee off of the T-boxes.

Yeah.

Go out to the forward part of the fairway.

Play it forward.

Play it forward.

Part of that program will play it forward.

Which is a terrible name, but a great idea.

It works great.

Anything that makes it easier for the golfer to enjoy.

Because the game is inherently difficult.

It's the easiest game in the world to enjoy.

I'm not going to dispute the 4, 4 and a half hours out and a fantastic setting with your friends, with your family.

So let's make it more enjoyable.

I've been playing, like I'm saying, about 18 years now.

And my wife is now just starting to get interested in playing.

And so the rule that we have when we play together

is one I do not give instruction, which helps our relationship.

I think every person should take that advice.

Do not try to give instruction on a golf course.

Their mind gets flooded.

But what we do is if we're playing a par 3, she can tee off at the T-box.

If we're playing a par 4, wherever my ball lands or equal to where my ball lands if it's out of bounds, she can tee it up right there.

And if it's a par 5 on my second shot.

Correct.

So for her right now is a nice long walk and she plays 150 to 200 yard holes.

And also if she gets the 7 shots, it's time to pick it up and let's go put.

And she's fine with that.

We tell lots of folks, double par is the max.

Okay.

And for certain events, we'll cater an event at our golf course and also adjust the game.

So if we have a group that we've seen 2 or 3 times and we know that they have a difficult time getting around the golf course,

we'll assist them with a new game.

We've got to find a way to get the folks again.

They're trying so many things.

So it's got to be enjoyable, but at the same time, it has to feel like a game to them.

Yeah.

So one of the most interesting things that's being tried right now just for the fun of the game is 15 inch holes.

Correct.

Have you tried this?

No, we thought about it.

The biggest challenge with the 15 inch cups.

I love the idea.

I don't know that I would put it on every single hole just because of the difficulty of changing that cup.

It's very difficult to keep a smooth surface on the greens.

A four and a half inch cup is tough enough to keep it.

We've all put it over a cup that's...

Yesterday's cup.

Silver or has it been quite seeded properly?

Right.

You can imagine trying a 15 inch cup and trying to keep the surface of the green.

That's a plate.

Yeah.

So I like the idea.

We have a couple of five inch cups at Rancho on the chipping green.

Okay.

Which is great to encourage people to see that ball going in the hole more often.

Right.

And we have talked about doing special events where we might put an eight inch or a 15 inch cup in

for a closest to the piano hole in one contest.

I think that's spectacular.

I don't know if superintendents are ever going to be able to perfect moving 15 inch cups all over the place.

That's the big issue is the core superintendents.

Correct.

I know a golf course near where I live in Marin County tried it for an afternoon.

They tried a day and they said that the rounds were down to three and a half hours and people were knocking 10 to 15 strokes off.

Sure.

And they had a lot of fun with it, but it's not a score you can record.

Correct.

The purists are going to fight that as well.

Yeah.

The purists are going to say it as well.

Well, the purists.

No way we can do that.

And that's a whole other conversation about who is the USGA really concerned about.

You know, are we really there?

I know they want to grow the game.

I know they want to bring a new golfers, but really it's the old guard who is saying,

and then get out of my way.

You're right.

You're absolutely right.

And I've always felt like the USGA was not an advocate for the golfer, but for the golf course.

Well, I think they're an advocate for the game itself because it encompasses so many traditions.

And traditions are hard to break, they're hard to get rid of, hard to change.

So I think they're certainly part of the purist approach to the game.

However, they are engaged in a lot of programs that are encouraging the growth of the game.

Yes.

So yeah, I think you'll see in the next 10 years you'll see a big change.

Well, that would be great.

I want to focus now because we're here at Paradise Valley Estates today.

I wanted to focus on issues that seniors have in golf.

And even for the audience, the golf smarter audience that ranges in age from, you know, 12 and up.

And we've had, I've got emails from 12-year-olds and 80-year-olds.

Eventually, all of us are going to be senior golfers.

Correct.

That's the whole point.

We're all going to have the issues that are most demanding as you get older.

Obviously, the first one that would be coming to mind would be pace of play.

I think we've gone from, first of all, pace of play has always been an issue since golf.

Golf was created.

Everybody's always pushing to play at a faster pace.

Somebody once said, a good walk spoiled.

Right.

And it really is a terrific four, four and a half hours out there.

Anybody that thinks that 40 seniors of 80 years of age are going to play in four to four and a half hours under the standard setting is dreaming.

It's unfair to go out and push those folks around the golf course.

Our whole world has sped up.

So if you look at the challenges we had with pace of play anyways,

then you start adding this world that we're living in with electronics.

Everything is fast.

Those folks that are new to the game are expecting that same thing to happen.

It's unrealistic.

And if you start adding the new golfers that we have coming into the game,

who don't have much experience, who do not have the proper etiquette yet,

or no understand the rules, the basics, those are going to impact pace of play as well.

Nobody wants to pick up and move forward.

Right.

When in reality, after you've hit the ball eight, ten times, pick up and move forward.

Please.

Just enjoy it.

Yeah.

Just continue to enjoy it.

For those folks, mark your good shots, not all shots.

That's exactly right.

Nobody is keeping track of the USGA or the PGA tour of what your score was for the day.

It's just doesn't matter just to joy it.

Yeah.

So pace of play is always going to be a challenge.

It's never going to go away.

We as operators, though, have to continue to find ways to move golfers along.

We like to set tell folks that you're not slow, but that you're falling behind our desired pace.

There's a nice way to say it.

We'd like you to regain your position on the golf course based on time.

It's not always easy.

Right.

I've worked at resorts where you pay two, three hundred dollars a person to play.

Their answer is, I paid my money.

I'm going to take as long as I want.

Ooh.

That's tough.

But so did everybody else here on the golf course?

That's our answer.

So sometimes you actually remove those folks from the golf course.

Wow.

Because you can't have four impacting 200.

That's right.

So it's always going to be a challenge.

It's never going to go away, but we as operators have to find ways to encourage people to play at a faster pace.

And sometimes that means our marshals have to recognize that certain golfers don't understand that.

Like everybody waiting for somebody to hit.

Well, if you're going to play at a reasonable pace, you play your ball when it's your turn or when it's safe to hit.

It doesn't.

Somebody else is not ready.

Don't wait for them just because it's not your turn based on the distance you are away from the pit.

Just play golf.

What are the instructions that marshals get about trying to keep the pace of play moving?

Because mostly what I see with marshals is them driving.

You're moving slow.

Come on.

Pick it up.

And they're no help.

So that's remember that the generally the individuals that take those jobs are people that have retired from other industries.

They're looking for something to do.

They're looking for something to do.

Yeah.

Our facilities converted from the marshals being a paid position to a volunteer position, simply based on the economics.

Of course.

We needed to find a way to save money.

So you're asking somebody, a general manager, Rick Renek, who I worked for at the PGA tour, was a jam.

He said one time on one of our staff meetings, I wouldn't put my father out there in that job.

That's the hardest job in the golf course.

And it truly is.

It really is.

Yeah.

They are an ambassador to the game.

And to the property.

They are an individual that the golfers are going to see the most within that four or four and a half hours that they're there.

So you hope that they create a relationship, which is what we tell them.

We want them to introduce themselves to them.

We want them to say hello.

But when there is a challenge, there is a way to approach golfers.

And it's not driving up on them during a shot and telling them they're slow.

It's waiting for the appropriate moment to drive up and say, folks, I need your help.

You have to get golfers to buy into the fact that they are responsible for their own pace of play.

May I make a suggestion?

Absolutely.

I would appreciate that if marshals have noticed that a specific group is slow,

or if they're sitting in their cart on the fairway watching them tee off,

and they see that the ball is going to be difficult to find,

why can't the marshall mark where the ball is?

Why can't they take their hat and put that?

I found your ball so that you don't have to spend five, six, seven, ten minutes looking for your ball.

You know, it's like that to me is where the marshall could really help out.

If they could, it's great for you.

Yes.

We do that.

Good for you.

We actually teach our staff to rake bunkers.

Wow.

Right.

To pull a flag.

To give walkers and assist, put them in the cart, drive them forward.

Is this a Rancho Salano and Paradise Valley State's golf course thing, or is this a camper sports thing?

This is a Paradise Valley Rancho Salano, but I'm sure it's done every single day.

The one thing a camper sports does is allow each facility to run as their own entity.

And so sometimes the rules that we have at this facility may not apply at another facility.

Okay.

So we adjust accordingly.

But yeah, the marshall is there to help you around the golf course.

That's his, his or her job.

Right.

Let's talk about how, what things we can do to help pick up the pace of play without having to deal with marshals.

And let's just assume, again, we're talking about seniors.

Let's just assume we're in a golf cart.

We've got a couple of people in a golf cart.

What, you know, that's going to help immediately if they're not walking.

It's going to make it a little faster.

What suggestions can you make that would help them pick up the pace in the golf cart?

Two golfers in a cart drive up to the first golf ball.

That person gets their yards. Maybe they're looking at GPS.

They get their yardage. They get their club that they want to strike it with.

And then if it's close, if it's a shot to the green, you want them to take their putter and their wedge in their towel, if they have a towel.

And they can then walk forward after they strike their shot.

Well, the other golfer leaves to hit their shot.

You tend to see a lot of golfers will sit and wait.

They hit their shot. They get back in the cart.

The two of them drive. Sometimes they do it as four.

And the carts will follow each other from shot to shot.

Well, try it. It happens a lot. You'd be surprised.

So just saying is, go to the first ball that you come to.

Drop that golfer off. Let him take everything needs.

Then go to your ball. And as soon as he hits, you're ready to go.

That's exactly right. And then that golfer, if the first golfer is on the green, second golfer hits their ball.

He can drive by and pick up that golfer.

Yeah. And head to the green. Moving.

I like to put my golf bag on the cart.

And then whoever I'm playing with, I like to walk.

And I can literally, by the time I walk up to my golf ball, I will wait.

Because other golfers haven't quite finished yet.

Because I'm ready to go. I know I'm walking up.

I'm already looking down for yardage markers. I'm ready. That cart gets there.

I pull my club, I hit, I go.

There's no waiting around. You got to move.

It's a cycle. It's a feeling that you get out there, a rhythm.

Everybody needs to play at a certain rhythm.

Okay. Another issue I would think that everybody has.

And it's not just seniors, but as we age, the biggest complaint is I'm not hitting the ball as far as I used to.

That's correct. And it will happen to everybody.

And it will happen to everybody.

But I have played, I have played with some senior golfers and I have played with some women who don't hit the ball far.

And they beat me.

That's correct.

Because they're just hitting it straight.

They just, you know, plug it away and they're getting their fives on every hole or sometimes they'll get a four and a three.

But they're just keep plugging to keep the ball in the fairway.

That's exactly right.

That's why senior golfers, some senior golfer groups, can get around the golf course relatively fast.

If they're decent golfers and they don't hit or don't have a tremendous amount of side spin, their golf balls always in the fairway.

It's always in front of the green.

It's always somewhere they can find it.

Young golfers like the swing harder, which produces more spin and golf balls that go all over the place.

All over the place.

Always looking for it.

Right. That's the military golf, right?

That's right.

Left, right.

Left, right, right.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm sure the folks here are probably understanding that one.

But if you ever played Ray-Ray golf.

Ray-Ray golf.

Ray-Ray golf?

Anybody here ever hear a Ray-Ray golf?

I'd frequently play Ray-Ray golf.

One shot I hit like Ray Floyd.

The next one I hit like Ray Charles.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

It's a Ray-Ray golf.

So now that we're not hitting the ball as far, there's a couple things that we can do to maybe pick up a yard or two.

And one is your body and two is your equipment.

Correct.

Let's talk about your body for a moment, fitness, flexibility.

There are lots of programs available today to encourage a golfer to become more flexible and some strength training.

If you look at the best players in the world over the say the last hundred years, only a couple of them, one being Tiger Woods,

was ever a workout fanatic that actually put on a lot of muscle.

You look at Ben Hogan, Sam's, Need, Tom Watson, Jack necklace, all the great players.

What did they do?

They played a lot of golf.

Right.

And they kept that motion constantly moving.

So I would encourage anybody that's a senior that wants to get a little more length off the tee or just length throughout their bag.

They've got to stretch more and try to get into some physical program that they can build some strength.

Second, was the equipment you asked about the equipment?

Well, I want to get, but there's also flexibility.

Flexibility.

Yeah, well as you stretch.

Absolutely.

You've got to stretch.

You've got to continue to try to keep the muscles elongated and the joints somewhat supple.

And now let's talk about the equipment as well.

All right.

So the thing that we see the most in the golf industry is ill-fitted equipment.

First of all, young people think that they should be able to swing really stiff shafts or play muscle back golf clubs.

Which for any of those that don't know, that's the difference between a tour professionals club.

And a club that is considered a cavity back is more of the amateurs club.

More forgiving?

Much more forgiving.

And so the person that's new to the game actually is a disservice to them if you do not get them the proper clubs.

Somebody new to the game should be swinging regular shafts, cavity back clubs, anything that's a forgiving golf club.

Get them lessons.

For those that are of the senior age, they tend to still swing clubs that are too stiff and also too short.

As we get older, we'd like to lengthen the golf club just ever so slightly and go to a much softer shaft and the most forgiving golf head you can buy.

You put that combination together, you will definitely play better.

Because the equipment is going to match your body type.

And generally getting fitted for clubs is free.

I mean, you can create a pro shop at a big box store, you can find people, but it's finding the right or even a custom club maker.

But it's finding one that you trust that has some credibility, finding a good club fitter.

That's correct.

The Paradise Valley two years ago, we built our own golf performance center.

Oh.

And so we started two years ago with now, two years later, we have facilities from all over Northern California visiting us to see what we did.

Awesome.

Congratulations.

And we fit and we have Kevin Hansen, who has built clubs for the past 25 years, including on the PGA tour.

Kevin really knows his stuff.

Wow.

And when you go see Kevin, he will have you hit your golf clubs, and then he'll put you through a series of tests of other golf clubs.

And we use the same technology that the PGA tours use.

So you get to see on the screen what your golf ball is doing, what your club head speeds are, how fast the ball travels.

All those statistics that we need to determine what's the best golf club for you.

And you would be surprised at how many people are way off, not just slightly off in their golf clubs.

They are way off of the mark.

We get them fitted, they can't believe how easy it is to hit the golf ball.

Yeah.

And their game improves.

But what else improves?

They're enjoyment.

Right.

If you're hitting bladed shots all over the golf course, because you can't get the ball in the air.

I can't tell.

It's no fun.

Yeah.

I can't tell you how much, you know, this past month, I've had my past 20 rounds.

I was looking at my NCGA, Jin, and my past 20 rounds.

I've had three rounds in the 70s, which is a huge accomplishment for me at all.

And only one in the 90s.

And that is a huge goal for me, which was try to get less rounds in the 90s and more.

And the better I found that the better I become, the more fun it is.

Although I love being out there, I love being outdoors, I love the walk.

Golf has become more fun as I've gotten better.

And I've incorporated so many of these things, getting fitted for the clubs.

You know, having the right clubs, picking up the pace of play.

One of the other things that I do, and I can check easily, check my ego at the door,

and I have a lot of problem with my friends on this, is playing different T-boxes.

I don't need to play all the way back.

I know sometimes I'll get in less trouble if I do, but playing, you know, to me,

I want to go out and score as best I can and have fun.

I can play the white T's, even though my slope may say suggest that I should be in the middle T's.

Again, for seniors, drop the ego.

Drop the ego.

And if you're not going to play the forward T's, put it up in the fairway.

It's okay.

It's okay to tee it up.

The goal should be, right, that you want to hit your second shot with an A-dire or less.

That's right.

That's what they do on the tour.

That's exactly right.

So the farther forward that you go, find that mark.

And for the folks that live in this area, that player golf courses all the time,

we're not going to tell you that you can't tee off from the fairway.

We're not going to restrict you to the T-box.

I took some lessons from an individual many, many years ago,

who told me to start playing the forward T's.

And I said, you want me to play the forward T's?

But I'm already shooting in the 70s and that.

He said, I want you to get accustomed to seeing birdies on your scorecard.

And I want you to get the feeling that once you make a lot of birdies from there,

then you want you to move back one set of T's.

And play a lot around.

A lot around.

It's a great piece of it.

You start making a lot.

It's a mindset.

It's about, yeah, it's about your confidence.

9% of golf is nothing but mental.

We get on our own way.

So if we can convince our golf ball to go where it's supposed to go,

because we have confidence in every single club in the bag,

you start enjoying, you start seeing those low scores.

And it doesn't matter whether you're a tour player or whether you're a senior.

A great piece of advice.

It's about confidence.

Absolutely.

It's all about confidence.

We did a show a couple of weeks ago and I think it was called,

golf is 100% mental and 100% physical.

Here you go.

It's all you get.

It'll drive you crazy.

That's for sure.

But the key to scoring, putting.

Short game.

Short game.

You bet.

Absolutely.

What do seniors, they can take advantage of us with that?

Because more time to practice if they're retired.

Don't have to worry about length.

And not always difficult to think to practice.

Especially if it's just putting, you can do it in your own place.

If you get a putting, a seven foot putting mat, just practice your line.

Exactly right.

Practice distances.

Practice the three footers and without a cup.

Awesome.

Practice on the carpet.

And practice to those different distances.

Because if you can control the distance, all you have to do now is select the correct line.

I mean, it's obviously both.

You have to have the correct line.

You've got to have the correct speed.

But if you're practicing that distance, that means you're always in the area.

You're always around that hole because the distance is correct.

Right.

Right.

I want to not only invite the golf smarter audience, but I want to invite everybody here

to participate in a contest.

Not a contest of drawing that we're having on golf smarter.

We're giving away some wedges from the brand new Ben Hogan Golf Company.

Excellent.

They've just returned a company that used to be called Score Golf.

And before that, Idle on out of Texas and they've moved the company to Fort Worth.

They bought the brand, the Ben Hogan brand.

And we've talked about it on the program a lot.

And very exciting.

They've just come out this year with a new set of irons called the Fort Worth 15s

and a new set of wedges.

And they're custom fit for every player.

What they do is every degree of loft is available.

All the way through from your three iron, which they don't call three iron anymore,

they have them by degrees.

All the way through to a 62 degree wedge.

I've been playing the Score Golf wedges in my bag over here.

For a while, and I play, I don't play a nine iron, I play my 41 degree.

I don't play my pitching wedge, I play a 45 degree.

Took a while to get used to that, but I love it.

And now we're going to be giving away four pairs of these TK15 Ben Hogan Golf wedges.

Anything with Ben Hogan's name on it has to be good.

Right.

That's we're very excited.

And they just this year, the PGA merchandise show in Orlando in January was the announcement

of the introduction of these new Ben Hogan line of golf clubs.

And the press has been going nuts.

They've been very excited about it.

They hit them there and everybody loved them.

And I'm actually getting my set.

They're arriving at my house today.

I'm frustrated under my hair because I want to break this box open.

Very excited.

But for those here, if you want to enter to win, we invite you to do so.

Go to benhogangolf.com slash golf smarter for our podcast listeners in the show notes.

You can click on the link there and you can win a pair of the TK15 wedges.

And only Ben Hogan allows you to fully custom fit these wedges to your game, to your irons.

And regardless of what brand you play.

And they have what they call the complimentary Hogan fit personal bag mapping analysis.

And it's a online form at benhogangolf.com where you answer all the questions about what clubs you play,

how long you hit each club, what your ball flight is, high low medium.

And then they'll work with you and customize the wedge.

So you get exactly what you want, the shaft you want, the grip that you want.

And they're very, very exciting about getting these new clubs to market.

And they just started coming out in April.

But we want to give everyone here a chance to win them again.

Go to benhogangolf.com slash golf smarter.

Fill out your entry form.

Deadline for entry is August 17th.

We'll midnight Pacific time.

And we're going to announce the winner on our show all four winners on our show on August 18th.

So good luck to everybody.

And I hope that you do enter.

And while you're there, go through the bag mapping analysis.

It's all free.

Well, this has been phenomenal.

I appreciate your time on this.

Thank you for having me.

I appreciate it very much.

Hey, it's Fred.

Hope you're enjoying Josh's insights to golf smarter as much as I am.

I really believe he's the perfect host moving forward.

And I hope you do too.

I'm making a brief appearance to ask for a favor that I'm quite excited and humbled about.

The Bay Area Radio Hall of Fame has nominated me for 2025 audiocaster of the year.

And the voting is open to everyone.

Plus, you can vote as often as you'd like.

Now, you may be curious as to why it's audiocaster and not podcaster.

I was too.

Well, that's because many of the nominees stream from either broadcast radio stations,

online radio stations, sports stations, and podcasting.

Actually, of the 16 nominees, only five are podcasters.

But I do have some stiff competition.

So I would really appreciate your support and your vote as it would be a sweet way to cap off my podcast career.

The voting is open now through July 1st, and the winner will be announced on July 18th.

Again, you can vote as often as you'd like.

We'll leave a link in the show notes or you can go to Barhof, that's B-A-R-H-O-F for Bay Area Radio Hall of Fame,

and browse around their site to find a ballot.

Thanks again for 20 years of support, the first 20 years of golf smarter.

And thanks for your vote.

That's barhof.org or bayarea radio.org.