Gov. Wes Moore on Iran, pardon power, and his future | NPR's Newsmakers

Hi, this is Steve Innscape with a special episode of Up First.

It's a conversation from our brand new sister show NPR's Newsmakers.

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Yes, more is the Democratic governor of Maryland.

He's considered a rising Democratic star.

And he's sometimes talked about as a future presidential candidate.

More is also an American combat veteran.

And that was relevant to the discussion we had here in the Maryland State House.

I want to ask about some news.

What are you thinking as your former unit, the 82nd Airborne Division, is deployed to

the Middle East?

You know, I've had a lot of conversations with some of folks that I serve with.

In fact, recently as early as this morning.

There was always something that we knew as paratroopers, as members of the 82nd, or just

frankly, anybody in the military, is that you never authorized military force unless

a military force was the last option, b, we had an understanding of what the mission and

the endgame was, and c, you were spending your time and your energy building the right

kind of coalition.

That could help to be successful in advance.

The problem with this mission is none of those things have a not been accomplished, but

I'm not sure if any of the three of them have even been thought about.

Because there is no one who could argue that military action was the last resort on

this mission.

Nobody.

There's nobody that can argue that we understand what the mission is or mission accomplishment

is or the endgame.

And it's not because we're being naive.

It's because we've all heard maybe a dozen things from the president himself.

And the third thing when we talk about an international coalition, I mean, that's almost

laughable when you look at the fact that there is not an international coalescing around

this that's going to help us to accomplish the mission.

So I remember when I was speaking, in fact, I was speaking with a person I served with

this morning, and I told him, I said, I'm just I'm praying for our paratroopers.

I'm praying for their family members.

And honestly, I'm praying for the leadership of this country.

I'm praying for the president.

I'm praying for the Secretary of Defense.

I'm praying that God give them guidance and vision.

I'm praying that God give them an understanding of the men and women and their families who

they're asking to actually do the work, because I think that's been lost in all this.

And I'm praying that we have leadership that that can actually meet this moment.

When you talk about defining the mission, that's in a broad strategic sense.

I want to ask a tactical question as someone who served.

There is talk of sending these troops perhaps to a seasoned island.

You wouldn't attack Iran the mainland, but you might try to season island.

What does it take for a few thousand American troops to season island under fire?

Well, let's also be clear that there is no mission that is as easy as advertised.

When people talk about, well, it's just a plot of land.

You don't think the Iranians have thought about that?

That the Iranians have thought about that for years, that we've been preparing for that

for years.

I was actually ironically, I was talking with a guy that I both served with and also trained

with.

And he contacted me probably a couple of weeks ago, and he said, remember when in training,

we used to run battle drills on Iran and how complicated it was.

We're talking 25 years ago.

This is not a new phenomenon.

So this idea that somehow this would be easy to do is laughable.

And so I think that both the idea of the taking over of territory, or if they're talking

about utilizing them or special operators to be able to seize enriched uranium, or if

they're talking about using it to help to take over the strait of remuse, or if they're

talking about using them to go into Tehran, the thing that I would just remind people

of this, let's not pretend like the Iranians have not been running battle drills on this

for decades.

As long as Americans have been training for this.

As long as Americans have been training for this.

The president never did address the nation.

No.

Should he?

Yes.

And in fact, he addressed the nation a few days before and said nothing about it.

And so we are to be clear, and it's important for people to understand this.

We are a nation at war right now.

And I know it might not feel like it to many Americans.

We are a nation at war.

And we have not either been spoken to from the president of the United States.

We have not been as to sacrifice anything as a country.

We don't have a measurement of explanation as to what is going on.

We are just simply asking a very small portion of our population to go on and take on this

weight.

While by the way, we're asking the rest of the population to pay more in gas prices,

to pay more in food prices, to be able to watch healthcare being pulled away and food

security being pulled away without any understanding of how these two things actually, how these

things actually translate and are connected to one another.

So no, the president of the United States owes it to the people of this country.

If you were going to do this, if you were going to take on the most solemn choice, choice,

as a president of the United States and as commander in chief, you owe it to the American people

and you owe it to these soldiers, these sailors, these airmen, these Marines, and their family

members to explain what it is that we're doing and what it is that we're all asked to be

as sacrificed.

Even if you disagree with starting the war, does the United States now have to fight it

through to a victory because a victory by Iran would be so disastrous?

But what does a victory by the United States mean?

What does a victory by the United States look like?

How would you define that?

New York voters are articulated that because right now, here's what we're on pace for.

We're on pace for a conflict that has cost about a billion dollars a day that has driven

up gas prices over a dollar since this conflict began all across the United States of America

and we're not on pace for a regime change, we're not on pace for a complete seizing of all

the enriched uranium or that Iran would now be on any detoured path for a nuclear weapon.

What does victory actually look like?

And frankly, what I'm hearing from the administration, even what they're claiming as, oh, we've won

the war,

this is not victory, what they're claiming for, what they're seems like they're seeking

is some kind of quiet exit strategy from something that I think that the reason we're

here is because of the lack of planning that has gotten us here in the first place.

How would you have handled Iran if it was in your lap and it was back in February before

the shooting started and you know there's these negotiations going on, you know that Israel

regards Iran as a threat.

The United States has concerns about Iran's nuclear program.

What would you have done?

I think we all have concerns about Iran's nuclear program because I do think we are dealing

with a nation that had they gained access to a nuclear weapon would have no problem in

using it.

So I think there was a bipartisan consensus for how that Iran should not have a nuclear

weapon and that there needed to be not just a bipartisan consensus, but there was an

international consensus about our ability to be able to prevent them from doing that.

That's why the negotiations were so important.

That's why being able to actually come up with a nuclear deal became so important.

You would have kept negotiating that.

I think until someone could tell me, until intelligence told me that we are now hitting a point

that we have an eminent threat on our hands and all forms of negotiation had hit a brick

wall.

Then that's the moment, like I said, when we talk about how military force should be the

last resort, that's when I think military force is something that you then tend to look

at.

But I don't think there's anybody who is arguing that we were at that point.

Tell C. Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, said the president was the one

who would be allowed to define the eminent threat and that he did.

Well, I also think the president needs to understand that if you're dealing with the eminent

threat through warfare, then whether or not the president of the United States is the

one to make a final authorization is one thing.

But then you still need to notify Congress and that people still need to have an understanding

as to what is going on, that the presidency of the United States has not just the moral,

but the legal authority to protect the homeland.

We understand that and we agree with that.

But if you can't argue that there was an eminent threat that required you to put the country

at war, then that's where this gets very difficult and very murky and frankly, I think

it's indefensible.

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We're talking during a week that is the anniversary of an event here in Maryland, the collapse

of the key bridge outside of Baltimore.

Two years ago, that happened in 2024.

In 2025, as many people will know, you had an exchange of words with the president, and

he threatened to cut off funding for repairing that bridge, rebuilding that bridge.

In early 2026, though, things had progressed to the point where you put out a joint statement

with Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary, hailing progress.

What changed?

Well, I think nothing changed.

I think what happened was we've just continued what has been historic progress.

I mean, Maryland has put on a case study on how to respond in moments of crisis because

at, you know, two or two in the morning, on March 26, two years ago, when I first heard

about this, you know, a ship the size of three football fields collapsing into our iconic

key bridge, you know, immediately we sprung into action, putting the state on a state of

emergency, working with state and local and federal partners.

When they told us it was going to take 11 months to clear their federal channel, we got

it cleared in 11 weeks.

When they told us it would take, could take years to be able to get permitting done, to

be able to fix a bridge because this bridge is nearly two miles long.

We got permitting done in months that we were able to bring closure and comfort to the

six families who lost loved ones, construction workers who were working that night, that

when they said it could take five to seven years to get to a seven percent design, design

build for the bridge, we got it done in 14 months.

This has been, this is the fastest moving large project in America right now.

In Maryland, we are showing that we move fast and we get big things done and we've been

working with our federal partners first in the Biden administration and now working with

Secretary Duffy at the Department of Transportation.

He's been collaborative, whatever the president has said.

He is.

Secretary Duffy has been a very good partner on this because whether it's working on the

key bridge together or whether it is working on the American Legion bridge, you know,

one of the bridge that's needing a bridge.

Another major bridge is need and another bridge that we plan on getting done on our time.

So you know, I'm very clear that, you know, we will work with anybody to be able to get

this done.

If you look at the 100 percent cost share that we have for the key bridge, that came from

a bipartisan group, Democrats and Republicans in Congress, who all voted to get that 100

percent cost share for the key bridge.

And so I am, I'm thankful because this project is moving fast, it is moving safely.

And I think Maryland is really putting on a case study about how to respond in crisis

and how to get big things done.

I want to ask about bipartisanship.

You and I shared a stage recently with a couple of your fellow governors, one of whom

was Kevin Stitt, Republican of Oklahoma, very conservative.

And he made a statement that you agreed with.

He said that the government should promote equal opportunity, not equal outcomes, which

in my mind is a line that is used as sometimes a jab against progressives, but you agreed

with it.

I wholeheartedly agree with him.

Why?

Because I believe that the promise of America is that everyone in America, you know, I'm

not saying that everyone in this country needs to end up at the same spot.

But I believe everyone in this country deserves a fair shot.

And that's, that distance is where I think this country has had historic challenges.

Where I think you have some people who think that the definition of fairness is everyone

ends up in the same spot, right?

Including some people in your party, would you say?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I just fundamentally disagree, because I don't think that the answer for everybody

should be the same.

It's the same reason why here in the state of Maryland, we push so hard on things like

alternative pathways for education, where we have made historic investments.

I've quadrupled the number of apprenticeship and trade slots that we have within our

state.

We've gotten rid of this idea that we should be grading or evaluating our high schools

based on their four-year college acceptance rate, because I'm like, that is a key input,

but it's not a key performance indicator, that I want to make sure that every single student

in our state has a chance to, for lifelong work, wages and wealth, and if that includes

a four-year degree, fantastic, and if it does not, fantastic, that we need to make sure

that every single person in our state has a chance for lifelong opportunities and economic

growth and sustainable economic mobility, but we should not be telling each and every

one of them what it should look like.

Meaning that people should approach things differently.

Absolutely.

Listen to you, Marylanders will know that you just had to deal with closing a budget deficit

or the lawmakers did.

You have big deficits in your future.

Education is part of the reason.

Is the very education program you described part of the problem or part of the challenge?

No, because I think that there's a few things that I think the people of my state know.

One is that we believe in fiscal and fiscal responsibility that we've done something

that people in Washington seemingly can't do.

I've now passed four-budgets, balanced budgets, that have actually where the general fund

is smaller than the year before.

Since I've been the governor, we have forced our state to do more with less.

What's also happened during that time period, even though we are repeatedly shrinking the

size of our state budget, what's also happened is we've increased our math and reading scores

in every single grade inside of the state of Maryland.

What's also happened is we have the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United

States of America here in the state of Maryland.

What's also happened is that we have one of the fastest job growth rates in the entire

country in the state of Maryland.

We've gone from 43rd in the country in unemployment to now having unemployment rate that is

systemically lower than the national average that we've added nearly 100,000 new jobs inside

the governor and 35,000 new businesses have been added to the state of Maryland since

I've been the governor.

I think what we've been able to show is that you can be fiscally disciplined, but also

be very smart about what you're investing in.

I think one of the things that you have to invest in, you've got to invest in education

and you've got to invest in public education and you've got to invest in your community

colleges.

The place is where the vast majority of our students are getting their educational pathways

because that's also what makes a certain jurisdiction very attractive to business and economic

growth.

On another potential point of bipartisan agreement that might surprise people, Elon Musk

recently was asked why he had not given away more of his hundreds of billions of dollars

in wealth and he was quoted as saying, I don't think that money can be given away very

effectively.

He didn't think philanthropy works.

You and I were just talking before this interview about your own skepticism about philanthropy.

Are you on the same page as Elon Musk?

Well we do have a lot of agreement and ironically I ran one of the largest poverty fighting

organizations in this country before I ran for governor.

I don't come from a political background or a political world or a political family.

This is the first office I've ran for my life and before I ran this I ran something called

the Robin Hood Foundation and I remember when they first approached me about it.

I told them that I'm not sure if I'm the right person for this job to be the CEO because

I'm naturally skeptical of philanthropy.

I oftentimes feel like philanthropy for many places is almost like philanthropy for philanthropists.

They give away money because it makes them feel better but they're not actually helping

to address the problem because if you're not addressing policy and if you're not addressing

some of these lawmakers that are making really bad decisions then you're not actually interested

in solving the problem.

You're just simply asking yourself to clean up the debris that comes from broken systems.

So I think that philanthropy has an obligation.

They've got an obligation that yes if you want to give away money to support at your

school programs fantastic.

If you want to give away your money to support food programs great but if you're not spending

your time bringing out why there's so many people who don't have food and if you're not

figuring out why there's so many people who are finishing high school and aren't ready

for college or careers or if you're spending your time you say I'm giving my money towards

criminal justice reform well put your money towards why there needs to be your forms in the

first place policy matters in this.

And that's why when I first became the CEO of Robinhood we actually created for the first

time in the organization's 30 year history a policy wing because you cannot say you're

actually interested in solving the problem if you're not actually addressing why the problem

exists in the first place.

You are implicitly criticizing a lot of organizations by what you're saying there's a lot of foundations

you think are not getting their money's worth they're not aiming at systemic problems

I guess is the way they're not and honestly I think you're also seeing a challenge in

the way philanthropy is even structured right because if you have philanthropies often

times that are serving as C3s you know one of the one C3s correct nonprofit status one

of the challenge of of nonprofit status is it means that inherently you cannot be involved

in political activities so you're telling me you want me to help to fix a problem without

helping to address why the problem is there in the first place so there's something structurally

wrong and backwards about that I also have a very real issue with oftentimes philanthropies

who have those restrictions on how much they have to spend on their endowments and so you

have some philanthropies that are saying you know the goal you know they've been around we've

been around for 70 you know 100 years and I was like what if you had a philanthropy they said

our job is to be gone in three we're going to give all of our job we're going to work ourselves

out of a job right what about if that was your goal instead of saying how can I spend as little

for my endowment as possible as I'm listening to you governor I'm also thinking about the attitude

the Trump administration toward nonprofits the attitude of the administration is that nonpartisan

nonprofits are secretly all political they're all favoring Democrats they're all partisan

I think you're saying the opposite they're not political enough yes that's exactly right

I actually I actually think that and first of all for the the irony is when I think when you look

at the places that the president has attacked their show there there's no sincerity in what he

is saying because a lot of the places that he actually has attacked have been the places that have

really tried to play it straight down the lines and that's actually what's kept their their C3

status independent because they have not delved into the political or delved into the policy

and I'm not saying that you know going into policy means that you have to agree or you know or

disagree with something inherently that an independent political party says but what I am saying is

this are you interested in solving the problem or not and if your answer is well I'm going to solve

the problem but I'm never going to deal with the policy issues then I don't think that's real you

know I remember when I was at at Robinhood that you know we started focusing our time on things like

the child tax credit and making enhancements and the earn income tax credit because I said as an

organization we have spent all these years fighting poverty but if we can make an adjustment on

child tax credit you could do more in that one decision than the organization has done in 30 years

every poor families pocket 100% right and so and I remember when we started advocating for that

and I was you know speaking with a you know we're speaking with now a former governor on this issue

and using our voice to say that they should make this adjustment and and we got and I told

you should talk about your state of the state and I got an advanced copy of the state of the state

and there was nothing in there about child poverty or the child tax credit and I remember

speaking with the head of public policy we brought on board got him Jason Cohn and he said to me

one day he said listen we worked for six months to get him to include a line of speech but what if

you could write the whole speech and that was the point policy matters in this and the people who

writing the speeches and giving the speeches they are the ones who are going to have an

outsized impact on whether or not we can solve these problems support for NPR and the following

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strawberry.me slash NPR what is the spread and rapid adoption of artificial intelligence mean

for economic opportunity for Americans well this is going to be one of the most transformational

both opportunities and challenges that our society has faced and you know and here here in the

state of Maryland we're being very open-eyed about it even though I think you know there's a lot of

places that are not we've been able to try to capture the benefits of it where for example we

are using artificial intelligence for things like our summer ebt program or it's basically a

summer food program for our kids we're now we have about three quarters of a million kids that are

receiving summer food from artificial intelligence same thing what we have for our what we call

constituent services are almost like consumer services where we're utilizing artificial intelligence

to help to make sure the people's needs are being met here in the state of Maryland but I'm also very

clear on this that we are now watching a stock market that continues to skyrocket profitability

that continues to outstretch and by the way the stock market gains are basically being driven by

like seven companies and unemployment go up there were watching companies that are now more

profitable than ever and also laying off people it's because they're investing in artificial

intelligence they're investing in technologies and we are not preparing our society for it and so

I do think it is a real obligation for all of us as leaders to be able to say what can we do to

embrace the benefits of it because I think it can be transformational in education and in health

care in public safety yet understand how powerful this technology is and if we are not careful

this is the type of technology that will overpower us and the people will never forgive us for

that and there are many ways to think about that one is the power of the technology itself but the

other is the economic and political power of those few companies that end up being the dominant

players that's right who by the way is this a risk to democracy is what I want to know it's a very

real risk to democracy it's a very rare risk for democracy also because if you look at the way

that we've looked at this particularly from a federal administration if you look at the EO

that the president signed executive order they're sorry the executive order that executive order

reads like it was written by Silicon Valley that executive order basically said you listen we got

this all of you in states all of you governors all of your one else don't worry about it they're

opposed to state regulation of AI completely completely and and I just think that we have to be

smarter about this now I'm not saying that we need to have 50 different guidelines right because I

understand the challenge of that right and I understand that if something is is doing a process

in Maryland and Montana and Texas and North Carolina that we should not then have to understand

four different ways that we can process work I get that but what's going to happen if we have an

absence of federal leadership on this is that's exactly what that is going to end up happening

and up determining I think the federal government and I think Congress and the White House they have

to take a leadership role and they cannot get steamrolled by Silicon Valley and by these tech

entrepreneurs who somehow think that they should be able to write all the rules another aspect of

power how do you believe AI will shape future elections starting with this falls well I think

people need to be you know for states first of all for elections it states that are running this

the federal government does not run elections and that's one of the reasons why it is so problematic

when you're watching what Donald Trump and JD Vance are doing to try to manipulate this next election

especially when you consider the fact that states are in control of what happens in elections in their

own jurisdictions but I think we are going to see how people are going to use AI and manipulate

manipulative technologies for ads you're going to see how it's going to use for introduction of

misinformation you're going to see how particularly for AI because remember this is a learning

technology agente AI means it's constantly learning based on information and you're going to see

how they're going to use that to be able to manipulate who can vote when they vote and how they vote

and so I do think it's important for states to get in the game on this because election security

has got to be our top priority as we think about things going into November I'm also just

thinking about manipulating the minds of people influencing people in different ways specializing

messages for them and I would imagine because it's a competitive game that if the other guys are

doing that you're going to have to do that yeah well well or I think you need to stop everyone from

doing it right I think you're going to have to have a bar as to what information is put out there

you know and frankly you know it's I you know not coming from a political background you kind of

see it right you're like when you're looking at some of the misinformation that people are

utilizing and the lies that they will just allow and tolerate it's staggering where in for many

people that's actually become a business model about how to confuse people so real facts and real

data and real information can never make it into them because it's a lot easier to introduce lies

how do you limit that without censorship well because I think what you have to be able to do

is be able to first of all you have to be able to be aggressive when it comes to introducing your

information and introducing real data and having real platforms for that but I do think there

needs to be standards and I think that the social media companies have a responsibility on this

I think local media has to have a responsibility on this that if you are going to allow things that

are just blatantly false or blatantly dangerous that that should be a measure of responsibility on

you as the carrier or you as the provider to be able to make sure that that is not allowed on

your platform it appears the Democrats have the advantage heading into the 2026 elections history

and midterm elections favors the party out of power the president is unpopular we could name

other factors so they have the wind at their backs but let's be real how could your party still

screw this up well you know I tell you one thing that we're focusing on here in Maryland and we're

not planning on screwing anything up is I you know I don't think it's just about the message I

think it's about the results you know I I'm very clear that here in Maryland and I'm on the ballot

in November the way we plan on winning is we're going to continue showing and reminding people

of what's happened since our administration has come on board that in the state of Maryland we have

now seen how we've been able to give the middle class a tax cut and we've asked the very wealthiest

Marylanders to pay a little bit more so we can do things like have an education system that is

providing outstripped outstripped results on reading and mathematics that we've been able to cut

in half the teacher shortage and the teacher vacancy rate that we've been able to now see how we

have a police department that is that is you know that is actually being invested in where we have

amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in America that's not a narrative change those

are results Rahm Emanuel would probably agree with you he was an earlier guest in this series

and argued that he wanted to hear more about education for example from Democrats also said

they were spending too much time on social issues was he right about that well I mean I think it

depends on what we're talking about right because you're talking about trans issues for example

oh listen I think that you know do we focus on things like reading and writing and and and

you know making sure that our students are prepared for the world 100 percent do I also think it's

important to make sure that all of our you know children see themselves in the future that people

can feel safe in their own neighborhoods and in their own communities I do do I think it's important

that we're providing proper pathways for people to identify what it is that they want to do with

their lives I do we made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a service year option

for all of our high school graduates where every high school graduate now has a chance to have a

paid year service to the state of Maryland and they can do it however they want to do it but it's

because we want them all to feel part of a community and to feel part of and this idea that in this

time with this political divisiveness and vitriol that service will save us you have said a number

of times in a number of ways that you're not running in 2028 is that still a case that yeah

I have said it multiple times and it is still the case and you know and and I think about it this

way where I like I don't come from a background of just like running for this office to run for this

office to run for this office and like you know I don't understand that I ran for governor for a

simple reason I wanted to address the issue of child poverty in my state I wanted to address the

issue of violence in my state and we're doing it and so I'm going back and I'm laser focused on

asking the people of my state for for their vote again in November because I know that we've got a

lot of good work done and I know that we're ready to do some more with that said what is a quality

that you think the next president needs to have you know I I think that we need to make sure that

we're not just explaining what's going wrong but we're showing what can go right you know I think

that Donald Trump has been a fantastic vessel for the frustration he's just not a vehicle for

the solution and he had no desire to be at that I think that you know we we cannot we're and we're

not going to just get away with saying look at how bad Donald Trump is because that is a that is

you know you're never going to win long-term on anger you got to be able to show what an

alternative looks like so when you are watching things like the federal government who was spending

their time raising prices on everything through terror policies and tax policies and you see how

us as governors that if you look in the state of Maryland where you know I've cut taxes for the

middle class we've actually made sure that we provide additional snap and food assistance for

for our people particularly the federal government was pulling it away when you watch how the

federal government was firing federal workers over 25,000 federal workers have been fired inside

the state of Maryland more than any other state in this country and what did we then decide to do

we then decide to say how are we focusing working with the private sector to get them employed

how are we doing innovative things like our our our feds to eds and getting federal workers into

the education space so we're showing not just that we push back but we're showing what it means to

push forward. Do you feel you have in mind what the situation is the next president is likely to

face in January of 2029? I think that we are going to see how the next president I think there's

really five buckets that the next president is going to have to figure out what everything falls

into I think you're going to have what's broken and irreparable I think you're going to have what's

broken and can be fixed I think you're going to have what's broken and needs to be fixed differently

I think you're going to have what survives but needs to be broken and I think you're going to have

what survived and needs to be sustained and I think everything falls into those five buckets but I

think we've got to remember that there is a bit of a BC AB moment for this presidency that Donald

Trump is introducing and what he is doing in the chaos he is causing but I think that the answer

cannot simply be well now we've just got to put everything back together without an understanding

of well how did this country for a second time allow him back into the Oval Office there was

something functionally broken and why the why the process wasn't working for real families and

real people families like mine and what we have to do to think about this in a very clear

and sober way that it's not just about building this thing back but understanding why this thing

was broken before Donald Trump even ran again governor more it's a pleasure talking with you thank

you very much it's a pleasure to be with you thank you enjoyed that thank you me too me too wow

how's great I could do another half hour you got another half hour no I know what do you think another half

hour we got some we got some part two's coming wow that was great I yeah I was I'm trying to be

respectful of your time but I would have asked what is the thing that is likely to survive that needs

to be broken oh I can give you a laundry list no I mean honestly for for example and again we're

still we're still early yeah um and this and everyone might not agree with me on this but for

example um pardons I would take the pardon power away away the pardon power away from the president

and every single governor and this is actually really hard for me because um so last year I did the

largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America where I pardoned over 175,000

misdemeanor cannabis convictions in the stroke of a pen because I think it is absurd that we can

have a legal cannabis market inside of the state of Maryland but I also still have people who and so

we have a new billion dollar market Maryland and I still have people who can't get a barber's license

or can't get a student loan or can't get a home loan for a misdemeanor cannabis conviction for

the 1990s right um I'm really proud of how I've used the pardon power and I see other president

in the United States on day one he pardoned people who attempted a coup on January 6th he's

pardoning people that are now turning around and investing in his kids business it is disgusting

and it's a grift and as thankful as I am to be one of only 51 people in the world who can

pardon an American for something right only 51 people have that power and I'd grateful to be one of

them if that's how it's going to be used I would take it from all of us and that's one example wow

okay thank you for more newsmakers from NPR news you can search for the show wherever you get podcasts

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