Graeme Edgeler: Constitutional law expert on an MSD review which found more than 30-thousand cases, where benefits and payments were wrongly suspended

0:00We now know why 16,000 pensioners' veterans and beneficiaries must out on their winter energy payment, urgently passing a benefit law, accidentally forcing them to reapply without telling them this was all came out in the wash yesterday. MSD is used to doing an implementing policies in a range of ways, including at pace. That is not an excuse, we got this wrong. Two and a half million not paid now, been paid grey, and the constitution of law expert with me this morning, Graham, good morning. Good morning, Ron. Who do you blame here, the government for passing a law under urgency or the public service for not picking this stuff up? Quite clearly. And so would one have happened without the other, I suppose not. Probably not, there were occasional things like that, but this is one of those things. It's been a few months of slick-mitty. That gives a chance for people outside me or someone else,

1:00you know, sort of beneficiary advocates to point out this mistake, but it also gives a chance for the people in the department to notice this. Going through a slick-mitty process, I'll make a submission occasionally and find something, but quite often, just that process of just even having a slick-mitty. Some of the changes are made because the officials are still looking at it, and they notice things and the slick-mitty report comes out. And if the officials are thought again or noticed something, we should fix that. And not having a slick-mitty process and then doing the thing over two days, you know, this is always the risk, and you know, when the government decides to do it that way, the government should like take the responsibility. It's like that is very much something that can and will happen before it will happen again every time you do that, you are running that risk. Are you surprised that she took this long for something to crop? I mean, I've done a hell of a lot of urgency. In some ways, does this prove that the opposite actually is true, that you can move fast without breaking too many things? Like, you can get lucky, but you can only get lucky for so long.

2:04And, you know, this is the biggest thing that's happened, but, you know, they've had to fix, you know, things that have noticed without, you know, without the effect on individuals, might be effect on government departments realizing, oh, we have to do something, or here's some problem we've got, which hasn't had as much effect on members of the public, but it's absolutely had an effect on how governments operate. And then, you know, they fix it up again. That, you know, it happens more often than you think. It's just this is one of the big ones, which affected a lot more people as individuals. Have we had other examples, you know, like, because the previous governments have used us and see all my stay as much as this one. And other co-cups? Yes. Yeah, no, there have been a few. I'm trying to think if there's been one as big as this for a while there. You know, we had to do it twice. We, or the government, passed something under urgency to fix.

3:04There was swearing in, not with the MP, there was swearing in police officers wrong. They passed the law under urgency to say, no, no, all those people who weren't properly sworn in. You know, let's do that properly this time. And they can't as being sworn in. And then a few years later, they had to do it again, because, you know, when they passed that under urgency, none of the changes internally that had to be made, had to be made as well. And they just, you know, they had to do the same thing again. These things do happen. There was a time when, for a while, when we brought a new local licensing laws, it was illegal to have beer in your car boot after having picked it up at a supermarket. And I just don't think they prosecuted anyone, because someone noticed, but they had to fix that up. So you will have these mistakes happen. Graeme Goodtavion is always graeme, just like constitutional law expert. For more familiar edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to News Talks, it be from 5 a.m. weekdays, or follow the podcast on I Heart Radio.