Graffiti across continents

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1:04Chumba Casino. This is the documentary in the studio from the BBC World Service, I'm Michael Kaloki. I would watch other artists paint, I would just sit there and watch them paint, and that's how I would learn. Observation and participation are the main things I would say to become successful. You know when you're young, you're trying to find a voice or you're trying to find a sense of belonging, it was like amazing to see street artists or graffiti, and nobody knew what graffiti was, you know, it was still young, and we were just painting or we were painting. Kenyan graffiti artists Mupendra Jethwar. In artistic circles, he's called by his Monica Wise 2. He is known for his signature look of intricate motifs, which include masks and faces, flowers and geometric shapes in bold primary colours. Wise 2 is a global citizen, in motion, not only creating art at home in Kenya, but also exploring the world as his canvas.

2:11Here in Nairobi, graffiti can be seen across parts of the urban landscape. I see it every day when I travel to work, with tags or names on walls and brightly coloured portraits on the side of shops or houses. In this East Africa nation, not everyone visits art galleries, so seeing art on the street where it often represents unheard voices is important, demonstrating that there's creativity out there, even if some of those making it haven't had any formal training. It is of course a very old art form. Original graffiti was like if you see cavemen would be writing like scratching or using different kind of organic paint to document history, like if there was a hunt or something like that. For us in the modern environment, it's mostly like you write something on the wall that's usually done in the dark, but I also feel like it has evolved throughout the time. I would say in the 80s

3:12was different, the 90s became wild, 2000s, it just started transitioning into more of like muralism, but there's still graffiti going on, it just branches off. They street art, there's graffiti, there's muralism, so where do you fall? I started with graffiti artists using solely spray paint and most artists would define that as graffiti. If you use anything else and that's kind of like cheating, so you know cutting corners, so it has to solely be aerosol based and that's how graffiti was defined. But it was usually never to do with money or anything like that, it was just like you going out there putting your name up and people would see that and they would recognize you, or usually it was done for other graffiti artists, so they could see who's using spray paint and just putting his name out there or her name out there, you know. So for me that's I would see it as the base, the foundation of so many art forms, especially visual art forms, you know, where

4:13you require painting and drawing and things like that, graffiti gives you like the whole world to be your canvas. So I'm in the Wesleyan's neighborhood in Nairobi, the capital of Kenya and I'm at a location known as the Alchemist. This is a slightly enclosed area where there are a number of eateries, there's a barber shop and in the daytime people come here, eat their meals and in the nighttime it's also a nightclub and I'm seated in front of this wall that has got two large graffiti pieces and at the bottom here of the wall I see the name Wise 2, or the Monika Wise 2, Wise, maybe I'll start off by describing them, I see two women, faces of two women, one on the left, one on the right and the first woman is covered with one looks like a shawl that has flower imprints and she's also holding a flower and the second woman her eyes are closed and she's holding one

5:14looks like a human heart, Wise 2, tell me, what is this all about? Yeah, so like for me if I was to describe it would be much more in depth but at the same time I wouldn't want to add so much, you know, nuances to it, I just want people to enjoy the artwork and make sure that they take something out of it, you know, so I painted the lady with the flowers to create the balance between the feminine and the masculine as well because there is a lot of strength around flowers because flowers do require certain conditions to grow and at the same time they're also very delicate and the other piece I usually like to paint the heart because it's very symbolic in terms of different cultures especially Latin American culture, Mexican culture as well because they use the heart as a center of a lot of things, it's like a powerhouse for your emotions so it's your essence, if you can see the other lady she's more Latin American looking and the other one she's more African looking so it's trying to create that bridge and what better place to

6:19do it than here in Alchemist because I feel like it's an inside outdoor place like a community, you know, so I think this is the best place to get it done. You talked about creating a synergy between South America, Latin America and Africa, I mean we're here in Nairobi which is in Kenya which is in Africa, why do you choose that synergy connection between Africa and South America? When I travel the first time to Mexico I realize that we have similarities between Mexico and Colombia especially with Cuba, there's a lot of people, Afro Cubans who have come from the slave trade you know, like it used to be a main port for the Spanish when they pillaged and stole a lot of gold and things from new Spain like they call it. So when I was there I would understand like how these people are connecting their roots with Africa and that kind of helps me to navigate that environment

7:20and create my African work in Cuba, in Mexico, something different, something that they've not seen before and I use also the inspiration that is in Mexico to merge it with my work and make it more of a experimental piece and see how I can bring these two worlds together. Did you use spray paint on these? So this is a transition from what I used to paint, when I just begun my journey in this field, so it's a mix of both acrylic paint, so bucket paint, mixed with water, you know stuff like that and spray paint. It's nice, the best of both worlds. Would I say it's a slight contradiction from your description of graffiti? Yeah, no, absolutely. It's a big contradiction I would say because I'm mixing because it's a journey, it's a transition, right? I feel like many people or many artists like to stay stuck in the box and be like somewhat of purist. Purists are like they don't see another way,

8:26they just see that this is graffiti and we must maintain this level of graffiti because I'm staying true to the craft. Yes, you can stay true to the craft but you can use so many other things that make your craft also easier and elevate your skill. So I would use bucket paint, I know many artists in this country don't use solely bucket paint, they would use it to fill up bigger spaces but everything else is spray paint, spray paint, spray paint, spray paint and that is something that I can't do because for example if you travel to a jungle area in like say Colombia or you're in Peru and you've been told hey I want you to paint an amazing wall but there's no spray paint, what are you going to do? I have to find a way, I know it's a contradiction but it also comes, it helps me beneficial to me as an artist. Modern graffiti emerged from American cities like New York and Philadelphia in the late 1960s and early 1970s, growing alongside hip-hop culture, sometimes used by gangs to mock their territory and even though some graffiti inspired work can be seen in galleries

9:31now because the images are often painted without permission, some people see it as an inferior art form, created by and for outsiders. Why stool has been developing his style over the years and has traveled to Latin America many times, he's going to Mexico again, a place where he feels at home and I catch up with him on a video call. Hey what's the how you doing, I can see you here on my phone, how colorful you are. At the moment I mean I'm in Mexico City, the weather is amazing, it's nice, it's similar to Nairobi at this particular moment, the food is amazing as always, there's so many options, you can't go wrong with them, I've been here for one month, I was also in the south of Mexico, I was in Oaxaca, lots of color, lots of good tradition rooted into indigenous culture, I took a lot of photos as well which is something I do on my, on my travels but now I'm in Mexico City, I'm working on two paintings and one mural before I travel to Nairobi

10:32in a couple of days. Now that wise has learned some Spanish, he says he can get by, he has connections with both collectors who are willing to pay him for his work and fellow graffiti artists who he can share ideas with. On the call I noticed behind wise too there's a piece of artwork, a woman who's holding a vase with a flower over her face. I'm trying to experiment on a new style or a new concept, some using a lot of gold leaf like to cover up the background, I'm working on monochrome colors, usually like the yellows, browns which are for the same shade. So yeah like you describe it is correct, it's a woman holding a, it's a mask from Bukina Faso, it's a sun mask that is used in agricultural ceremonies, so that's why you have flowers and things that are coming out of it, you can see like in Africa we have different masks for different rituals and ceremonies or festivities, so I wanted to build around that concept but also try and have this modern feel or touch to the piece because even my style is not traditional African style painting, this is more

11:37graffiti, street art, muralism put together with like concepts that make sense to me. It looks like it's for the canvas or something like that. It's on canvas yes and the background where they're painted it is gold leaf, you put an adhesive like glue or something of that sort that would become tacky after a while and you put the gold leaf on it, it's a whole process, so it's layered by layer then I have to do like cover it so you don't get these fine glitters and then I'm going to do more work on it with the hieroglyphs that I usually paint, so it's going to be a whole process, it's just like cooking a meal you know you have to add your ingredients slowly so that's what I'm doing I'm letting it stew for a bit. I get you and is this just a piece you decided to work on or is it a piece been commissioned to work on? Yes I had breakfast with one of my clients and my collectors and he was very curious to know what I've been working on, so this is like very recent wise to work for 2025, so this is going to be for him for his house, the thing I like

12:43about my collector is that he likes to push me to experiment, he wants to be like wow let me see what you have new, so that pushes me also to become a better artist I think, so this is someone who has collected your art pieces before. Yeah, he has commissioned me one big mural before and he's collected my work since 2018 or 19. Could I ask you how long it took you to work on that piece? I'm working on two artworks, this one and there's another one but the other one is I've taken it upstairs to the terrace where I'm going to spray paint, I started painting this on what Sunday, what is today Thursday, someone was done, I'll be done today actually after this call I'll be finishing this artwork wrapping everything up by the end of the day and varnish it on Friday and I go see the client on I think Saturday or Sunday before I travel to Nairobi, so it's taken me a couple of minutes because I'm really quick but I'm like working non-stock eight, nine hours a day sometimes even 10, so sometimes you don't catch a lot of sleep, sometimes yes but most of the times

13:48I enjoy my sleep so I would work very early, I have my breakfast, I relax, I'm in no pressure and then I just grind for another seven to eight hours and then I'm done and I have two artwork, one by now I've been finished, I have two, so the other one is almost done, it's almost a similar concept, instead of holding a mask, the African mask, she's holding like a jaguar mask which is very prominent in Mexico, so in the state of Guerrero they have this festival about the tigers, so I'm trying to pair the two pieces between Africa and Mexico and to create this synergy between these two women and they have like these stars which are in the body, you know like the constellations that are in the body because it's like all tied in together to become like a cosmic life force, I like those kind of concepts because it connects us together and what's the graffiti like out there in Mexico City and other parts of Mexico. There's a lot of graffiti work everywhere like out in the streets, stags on the walls, some murals because we Mexico City there's a lot of

14:49businesses investing in murals, you can ask for permission, get yourself to paint a mural and it's nice because people understand what muralism is because it's not a new concept to them, not like in Kenya, if you were to introduce muralism to paint in let's say Karen or in the Westlands or in, well in the in Eastlands it works much better because it's a community thing that the ones who take charge of the spaces which I painted in Jericho in Kibera in Malade, but if you go to the other neighborhoods it's not community-based, it becomes very tricky, they don't understand it, they don't want anything to do with muralism or graffiti or anything of that sort, but in Mexico City I think they're a bit more relaxed with it when you can go out and ask them for permission and they're always happy to have artists from different parts of the world, you talk to the neighbors, they will cook for you some food, they'll give you lunch, sometimes you get a little bit of tequila or mezcal during the day to keep you going and it happens, if you come across a wedding that's happening you'll be drunk by the time you

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16:55This week on Good Bad Billionaire, how Total Wolf made his billions, listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You're listening to the documentary in the studio from the BBC World Service, I'm Michael Kaloki, hearing about the graffiti art of Weiss II. His parents settled in Nairobi from India and to me his work has an authentic African influence. He has evolved his own graffiti styles as he moves with ease between Kenya and Mexico. He also plans his life around paid and unpaid work. Even artists have to eat. I did plan for a couple of projects but since I had to go back to Nairobi, which is the life of an artist, it's always random. I have to go back to Nairobi to work on a mural project for 16 days of activism on gender-based violence, which is something I would love to explore more, that's why I took the project. But the thing is that once I finish that project and I

17:55have other opportunities in Mexico, I will go back to paint there and I'm supposed to have a trip to Havana to Cuba. So that's also still there in the works I would say. Is there another project that you were meant to be working on in a building? Yeah, a mural. I was supposed to paint a mural for a client. Air conditioning vents that are pretty cool. He wants me to intervene with my style of work. So that's going to be interesting because the surface is not flat. It's rounded and you don't figure out how to get around that and I have like maybe a day or two days to paint it at most, which is fine because we break that monotony of the space which is very bland. So I'm going to intervene with my style, the colors, triangles, circles, things like that to create some harmony. I think pattern work like that also helps you to bring things into perspective and into like cohesiveness. Instead of it being some of the work that I paint also has a little bit of abstract

18:56elements to it with the glyphs. I wouldn't say the hieroglyphs are very abstract but they can be abstract. They can be construed as being abstract. So they're going to look like that. It's going to be simple but yet very classic in a way. I'm imagining if it's a perhaps a common event that would see here in a row, but it's probably cylindrical or yes. So is it a challenge to work in? This is a bit challenging because you have to work with the spaces that go like up to the top, to the bottom and try and connect that to the other side and have it flowing. The thing is the process. You just have to keep going through the process and not stopping and not like second guessing yourself like, oh, maybe this is not what I want to do because those things will always pop up. You want us painting these kind of things. It was the same conversation like, I don't know. I don't like this. But when you reach that level of 90% done, you're like, okay, fine. This is looking like something that I can be proud of. So the same thing with this event. Once I start, I will

19:56know how I will feel about it. But he always likes to throw me some good projects because he likes my work and he sees that I can always deliver something probably close to what he visions. So what's next for you wise to when you come back to Nairobi? When I get back to Nairobi, I'll rest for a couple of days. Then I start working on this mural project for the Embassy of Spain for 16 days of activism on gender-based violence. After that, I'm not sure what I have in line, but I might rest for a little bit. And if I have another project, I will fly back to Mexico City. Listening to him, he seems quite different from the graffiti artist I met nearly 20 years ago. When he started painting a commuter train, which became a symbol for peaceful existence, following a time when Kenya was going through a period of post-election violence. For him and his graffiti artist friends, like Swift and Bankslave, the artwork gave them a voice. I did a collaboration with Swift, so we painted a portrait of Malcolm X.

21:00And we used to read all these books about revolution and civil rights movements and things like that. So we used to be very much in touch with by human rights and civil rights, especially what was happening in the United States. We'll talk about civil rights movements, with Martin Luther King, with the Nation of Islam, with Malcolm X, and then his transition from there to being more independent and his assassination, the Black Panther Party that comes later. All of those things that culminated into these things, and I would look into design work of the Black Panther Party, look at civil rights, people who are active in that field, who use those kind of iconographies and designs to push a message. So I did paint a mural of Angela Davis, and I did paint a mural of Malcolm X. And I think we did some work with the paint a mural of Martin Luther King as well. But it's just different timings, right? But I think that is what was my main message, you know.

22:04I was just experimenting also in the graffiti, seeing like writing like letters and things like that. But mostly like the portrait work was amazing, because it was a powerful message. It was my time to tell people that this is what I want to paint. This is what I want to show the world, you know? And that was a kid still. But now my work is evolved into something completely different. It's still indigenous, it's still grassroots, still grounded in community. And I like to push that even if it's a commercial project. When you're starting off, were you using stencils, you know, cardboard, cover one part? Yeah, I was using a lot of stencil work to create my pattern work, because I have this hieroglyphic thing that I design myself. It's like a whole stencil that has, I use that as my pattern work does, I'll signature why it's too star, it still is, I still use it. But not as much, I would sketch out with like line work, like that creating that grid. Now I do a doodle grid, which is just like funny doodles. Then I take a photo and superimpose my artwork on that,

23:07and then I can trace it. So that is evolved. And also using like background color, which is a lighter color, to fill in the whole background, so there's no white. And then it's easier for you to now differentiate the contrast and the highlights, you know, and the shadows from the main piece, because if a wall is completely white, it's difficult to differentiate. You have to understand that I never went to art school, I just learned these things in the streets. Do you have any examples to show me, maybe on your phone or something like that? The recent work that I did was here at a friend's place. Okay, you're just showing me a piece that's been done on a wall, it looks like a wall, in front of a staircase, flowers. Is there a certain reason why flowers seem to feature so much in your pieces? I do like the concept of the flower. I think flowers are beautiful, but they also represent a lot of resilience and strength, because they have to survive the weather, you know, they have to grow through all of this. And sometimes you see them just growing. There's nobody coming there to like take care of them,

24:08they just blossom. I like that, I think it's a very great analogy to like human life as well. Sometimes you just grow, whatever circumstances are there, you just have to figure out a way and grow. So I think flowers symbolize that for me, you know. No matter how tough it could be, it could rain today and it's like super hard. You'll just see some rose flower along the street, along the road just growing. And looking at that piece again, at your friend's house, it's on a wall next to a staircase and very colorful greens. I see purples. And then there are some other pieces here, I guess. Jaguar in there in the piece. There's one that I did that was like representing like this one, you see. Okay, this is again a lady holding flowers on a wall, I guess. Yeah, this is at a wall at the Agacan Medical University, which is here in Nairobi. Exactly. It has to do with this, so they use the VR, the technology parts to teach the medical, like the students.

25:10So I was commissioned by them to paint this wall, to like kind of bring mirror art into that field. So my concept was like, it was based on there's some medical concepts there. Like the flower is medical, it's a puny flower, then you have the National Board of Kenya, you have the VR headset, you have like nature growing, you know, you have a robotic butterfly. Also the arm has like a muscle, you see. And the head of department for anatomy was there. And he was like, yeah, perfect. This is a muscle that you're supposed to paint. And I was also, I was put on like, you know, if you have the head of it, and not to me to come to check if the muscle was painted correctly. And I nailed it. That kind of precision isn't always associated with a quickly drawn graffiti. I see on Nairobi streets, where public spaces are alive, with politics, religion, music, and contradiction. I wanted to find out if he thought that graffiti is still a fringe art form,

26:11or if it's become mainstream. It depends who you are trying to communicate the art to. It can be fringe, it can also be mainstream. You could be at a club and everybody finds it to be mainstream. Like where we are right now. This actually ends up being an eye club at night. Yeah, like where we are right now, because you need art to like fill the space. You need art to create a conversation piece. But if it's in the streets, main roads, the highways, it might be a bit fringe, people may not understand it. But at the same time, like as a painter, as an artist, I don't care about it, you know. I just do what I need to do. That's my space, like it's public space. And I should note as well that here in Kenya, during the second half of the year 2024, and the first half of 2025, we witnessed some youth-led protests that seem to have been sparked by opposition to a finance bill proposed by the government. Now, there has been some graffiti art relating to the protests that we have seen in various cities and towns here in Kenya.

27:14I mean, what are your thoughts about that, why is it? I think it's relevant because it's their voice. Some people are good at making speeches, some people are good at doing videos and posting it online and creating that awareness. And I think some people, especially visual artists, are good at doing, you know, painting stencils or murals or things like that, that spread that kind of message. So you see, you can't stop art in culture. It's a way of people to be revolutionary. Even if you remember in Egypt during, well, when the Jasmine Revolution started in Tunisia, spread to Egypt, there is a whole book on just graffiti art, activist art in Egypt. Which is banned, like, you're not allowed to hold that book. But it's all the protest art that was done in Tahir Square around, you know, all those areas. And people who are like, documenting part of the history. It's the same thing with us. We have all these avenues to document our own history.

28:15We're doing it. It's not as big as Egypt or as big as the Palestinians or as the Mexicans do in the Mexican Revolution, but it's there. So I think it's important. You've been listening to me, Michael Kaloki, talking to wise two, the Kenyan graffiti artist, for the documentary in the studio from the BBC World Service. The producer was Paula McGrath.