Greg Cosell on Riq Woolen, Sean Mannion's offense, AJ Brown & Eagles' NFL Draft needs

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to Take Off with John Clark,

presented by Makefield Putters.

And let's bring in from NFL Films, the long-time legendary executive producer,

the main producer at NFL Films of the NFL match-up show on ESPN.

Greg Cosell, it is good to see. I want to talk a little free agency here

with the Eagles and what they're looking like this time of year.

Well, John, good to be with you as always.

Up to this point, they haven't really made a lot of moves.

We'll see what else happened.

Obviously, there's still a draft that's upcoming,

but they haven't made a lot of moves.

Some teams make splash moves.

They really haven't done that.

Although, I guess, maybe Rick Woolen would be considered then.

We can certainly talk about him.

Yeah. So, Rick Woolen, obviously, coming from the Super Bowl champs.

He's a former pro bowler.

But he was kind of pushed aside a little bit for Josh Job.

Do you think him and Vic Fangio's system?

Do you think that that's a good fit here?

Well, Woolen is a little freakish.

There's very few corners in the league who are 64 to 15

with his speed and his overall athletic traits.

He had the great rookie season where it looked like he was on his way to being,

you know, almost like a perennial all pro type corner.

And again, I'm not in his head,

but whether it's fundamentals, mechanics, lack of concentration,

he's never played to that level on any kind of consistent basis.

Now, he did play better this season.

And he ended up playing a good amount down the stretch.

He played, depending on the Seahawks personnel.

He played both boundary corner and he played field corner.

Now, with the Eagles, he'll play field corner,

because Quinion Mitchell is their boundary corner.

And he did that with Seattle.

So, he has experience doing that.

If they can get him to play, John, at the level that he's capable of,

I mean, like I said, we're dealing with something

like a freakish athlete for the corner position.

You could make the argument.

And again, it's always easy to say these things in March,

but again, you're dealing with a guy that's really gifted.

You could arguably have the best trio of cornerbacks in the league,

because we know what Mitchell is.

We know what DeGine is.

And DeGine is so critical and so essential to this defense.

And then you would have Rick Wallen.

So, it's all a matter of can they get him to play at that level

on a consistent basis?

Now, I was seeing some things where there's a lot of people who believe

he's better playing man than zone.

Do you agree with that?

Do you see something with that?

I think that's fair.

He's long, he's athletic.

Don't forget in zone, there's a lot of understanding of

receiver splits, of route concepts,

of how to sort of work through the stress points in the gray areas.

I do believe the Eagles have one of the best coaches in the league

to coach that in Joe Casper, who I believe got a promotion

with Christian Parker leaving.

So, you know, it'll be coached hard.

Now, coaching it and then the player doing it as you know, John,

you've been doing this a long time as I have those are two different things.

But it will be coached hard.

But there's no question that playing zone really well at a high level

is more difficult than just, hey, you got that guy.

So, you know, that's something they'll work on.

And we'll see how it plays out.

We don't know the answer to that right now.

Yeah, and he even said that today when he was introduced

that, hey, when I'm manned up on somebody,

I know exactly what I'm doing.

But through his career, like learning at a young age,

like, okay, there's a lot of different responsibilities when you're in zone.

There's a ton more.

And it's, you know, that's the mental part of the game.

Look, there's a lot of guys as you know that have great physical talent

that have never become great players in this league.

That's happened since time immemorial.

So, so much of playing certain positions.

And corner is one of them that require,

require mental acumen.

And, you know, we'll see he'll be taught hard.

I guarantee he'll be coached hard.

They're not just going to say, hey, go out there and play.

They're going to coach him hard.

And that's something in the Vick Fangio defense,

which literally has an adjustment on almost every play.

Those things become really, really important.

And with Vick Fangio's defense now, obviously,

you've got the foundation on the defensive line with Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis.

And right now with Jalen Phillips leaving,

it looks like Brandon Graham's going to be back.

But you've got Jaleigh Sunt, you've got Nolan Smith.

Where do you think they are with PassRush?

They need another PassRusher, right?

Yeah, they don't have a true edge PassRusher.

I think that Hunt and Smith are solid NFL players.

And I think that's what they'll be in their careers.

But I don't think either one is that kind of PassRusher that a team would worry about.

So, again, it all depends on what they feel they need.

But if you're just looking at it from the perspective that most people around the league

consider an edge PassRusher to be a really important player and a defense,

it's a premium position, then the Eagles are certainly somewhat lacking in that area.

The interesting thing about Jordan Davis, and I thought he had a terrific season.

And we're all glad because we know he's a terrific young man.

We're all glad to see him rewarded.

But he still didn't play very much on third down.

So, it'll be interesting to see this year if he starts to play much more on third down.

Because what they gave him financially would suggest that they view him that way.

A player that will become a meaningful PassRusher on third down.

But they still need edge players.

They need at least one edge player.

And again, you have a draft coming up.

So, as we sit here in mid-March, we don't want to say that, oh, they don't have it.

Because we don't know. We just don't know yet.

But as of now, yes, they do not have it.

And of course, there's been word that they have been looking into trading for Jonathan Greenyard with the Vikings.

I saw that.

Would you like that? Would you like that if they were able to get that done?

Well, he is an edge passRusher, and he's been a good one.

And he's been a good one with two teams with the Texans and the Vikings.

You know, it's funny.

I don't work for a team, obviously, as you know.

So, I have a little different point of view, which maybe if I was inculcated in a team's mindset,

I think differently, but teams like to hoard their draft choices, as you know.

But I always think to myself, and again, just because you mentioned Jonathan Greenyard,

and he may not be the best example of this.

But sometimes, I think when teams say, well, you know, we don't want to give up a draft pick for such and such.

And the player they're talking about, you know, was 25 years old and an all pro.

And I'm thinking to myself, well, you're not going to get that guy in the draft.

So, why are we hoarding the pick?

Because you're going to get the player who's done it in the league.

But I know teams don't think that way.

They think in terms of draft picks.

You know, Grenard's, he's not old, but he's a little older.

He's been in the league, but he's a very good pass rusher.

And he certainly would be an upgrade.

And I'm not one who looks at the trading charts and all that.

So, I don't know what you'd have to give up to get him.

But if it's, let's say, a third or fourth round pick,

my feeling is, you know what, you're not likely to get Jonathan Greenyard in the fourth round.

So, you know, I'd feel good about that.

Yeah, we'll see if how he roseman can get it done.

And when you look at the rest of the defense and you look at what they lost,

just like last year, they lost a handful of starters.

So, if you were to say, Jalen Phillips and the money he got,

and then Nikobe Dean and the money he got, Reed Blankenship and what he got,

who would you say based on the value and the money they got?

Who would you say is going to be the biggest loss, the toughest to replace?

Well, you know, that's a hard question because they're all tough.

I mean, Dean, look, as soon as Dean came back, he played.

And he didn't play because he's a better athlete than Shahid Campbell.

He played because he's such an intelligent, smart, savvy player.

And as I said, they make adjustments all the time.

And in speaking with coaches on their staff, I've been told numerous times

that Reed Blankenship may have been the most important player on their defense.

Because on the back end, he can control everything

and make sure that nothing happened behind them,

because that defense did not give up big plays.

So it's hard to pin point one player.

They lost two really important pieces.

Two players in Dean and Blankenship who, you know,

certainly are not the most athletic at their positions,

but just incredibly intelligent players.

You know, like I said, it's no surprise that as soon as Dean got healthy, he played.

I mean, and that's, you know, and he's a really good player.

So, you know, we'll see.

Those, they need a safety.

I mean, obviously they made the move for Wolland,

so he's going to play corner opposite Mitchell,

but they need a safety now.

McCuba will be back.

He's going to be a good football player,

and he's a smart young man, so he'll be good.

But they need another safety.

We'll see how that plays out.

Yeah, they need safety and the pass rush.

Jalen Phillips, they're obviously going to miss him.

And when I look Greg at Jalen Phillips,

how he seemed like a complete player.

Like he was good against the run.

And Nikobe Dean with the way he played against the run.

How concerning is it?

Because that's like the number one thing for Vic Fandio.

Stop the run.

And now, with Jahad Campbell and Zach Bond,

are you a little concerned about stopping the run,

especially if teams go to the outside?

Yeah, it's interesting you say that,

because one of the things that stood out at times

over the course of this season is,

they ideally would like to play with what we call

a two-high safety structure.

Not with a single-high safety structure,

but if you can't stop the run with a two-high safety structure,

you've got to bring a safety down.

And that changes the whole calculus

of what Vic Fandio really wants to do on defense.

So, again, we'll see how all this plays out.

You know, Jordan Davis was phenomenal last year

as a run defender.

You have to assume he'll be just as good this year.

You know, and obviously,

we hope that Jalen Carter can be healthy.

Because, you know, I know he's got a shoulder.

He's had shoulder injuries.

I don't know whether they're chronic.

I don't know if they'll continue to bother him.

Obviously, when he's healthy and at his best,

he's a top three defensive tackle in the league overall.

You know, so we'll see now with Jihad Campbell,

who's incredibly athletic.

I mean, that's, you know,

we all saw the clip that was out there on social media

that they really wanted Jihad Campbell.

So, they obviously feel very good about him.

So, now it becomes, you know,

can he handle all the adjustments that are demanded

in the Vic Fandio defense?

That's really what it comes down to.

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Yeah, and I actually caught up with Vick Fangio

when he said that Jihad is injured again with his shoulder

so he's going to miss most of the offseason up until camp.

And it's interesting because

when you see what Zach Bonn was able to do with Nicobie Dean,

seemed like Zach Bonn was able to improvise a lot

and cover a lot of ground.

Does his role change, I guess, with Jihad Campbell?

Because Nicobie Dean was able to basically say,

okay, I am going to stuff the run here.

I don't know if Jihad Campbell,

I don't know if he's best suited for that, right?

Well, yeah, we're going to find out

because they drafted him and they're going to play him.

I mean, assuming health, you know, again,

I know I saw the same thing you did

that he's going to have another surgery

and he's going to miss pretty much the majority

of the offseason.

Bonn is at his best.

It's kind of a run and chase player

who's really, really good at coverage.

So what you're asking, which is a hard thing to know

is does his role need to change

because Campbell's playing instead of Dean.

That's, I'm just being honest with you,

that's an impossible question to answer

in the middle of March.

You know, we just don't know Campbell's development.

Obviously, he can still do all the mental work,

but he can't do the physical work.

So we just don't know how far he will advance

in terms of understanding what he needs to understand

in a Vick Fangio defense.

And of course, Vick Fangio, an amazing job

because losing all those defensive players

and you still have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I want to ask you about the offense

and we saw the Eagles sign Johnny Munt.

And of course, you're like, okay,

this is another Sean Manion move

because we've seen Sean Manion basically be able to

tailor his coaching staff around what he wants

to do and what he needs.

Johnny Munt seems like another move.

Give us an idea of how you think

Sean Manion's offense is going to look.

Well, it's a dramatic change, John.

It's really a 180 or a 360 degree change,

whatever cliche you want to use

because Sean Manion's background

is sort of the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh background.

I guess you could throw Kevin O'Connell in there,

but he comes from that same tree as it were.

So that offense and the reason they signed Johnny Munt,

that offense starts with the run game.

And Johnny Munt was with the Rams.

He was with Liam Cohen and Jacksonville,

which is the Rams because Liam Cohen

was with the Rams for years.

So it all starts with the run game

with the zone concepts outside zone, inside zone.

The past game is married to the run game.

The quarterbacks under center with play action.

I mean, this will be a meaningful change.

Obviously, the team, the organization believes

that Jalen Hertz can do this

or they wouldn't have made this a dramatic of a change.

It's a really good offense.

I mean, this is a pass.

Now, if you go to the past game part,

they want to sort of separate the defense

vertically and horizontally and create voids

more in the middle of the field,

which is something as we know

that has not really been a part of the Eagles pass game.

So again, I'm just trying to give people a sense

of the changes that are involved in this.

And it's an offense that in an ideal world

would like to run the ball 30 times a game.

Now, we know Cook Barkley is Barkley.

He didn't lose everything last year.

We don't need to go into what happened last year.

But they want to get back to being able to the run game

to be the starting point and the foundation

and this offense when it works properly.

And that's where Johnny Munt was brought in.

This is an offense that runs the ball really, really well.

So I think that's the whole point here,

but you still have to have a pass game.

So we'll see, there's no answer to this right now.

Other than the organization believes it will work.

And obviously, from what we've seen with Jalen Hertz,

he did try new things last year, being under center more,

then obviously they're probably gonna have motion

in the offense and then throwing over the middle.

Some people have said, maybe Jalen doesn't like the throw

as much over the middle,

but is this really gonna be the biggest test

for Jalen Hertz to adjust to some of these things?

He's going to have to make an adjustment,

but he's a veteran quarterback

who's won a lot of games in this league, John.

I mean, it's, you know,

quarterbacks do have adjustments

when there's a change in coaching staff.

He's certainly not the first one.

He's a veteran.

He's won super balls.

You know, he won a super ball.

He's played great in another super ball.

He's, you know, been a super ball MVP.

He's had a lot of success in this league.

There's no reason to believe that he can't do it.

You know, that's the thing.

Now, like I said, they obviously believe he can,

but you're right.

There's going to be far more motion in this offense,

which has not been a major part of what they do.

There's going to be, you know, an emphasis on play action.

It's a very highly choreographed ass game,

which really helps the quarterback.

You know, we're not gonna go into all the details

about pure progression or what all that means.

That's going deep into the weeds.

But the point is it's really highly choreographed

and it really does help the quarterback.

I want to end with AJ Brown with you.

You watch all of the tape.

So I've heard people say, when they watch AJ Brown,

this past season, they say, you know what?

I think he's lost a step.

Some people say that.

Do you think that he has lost a step or a half a step?

You know, I'm always low to talk about players

and their commitment when they're on the field.

A word that I heard from a coach about another player,

not AJ Brown, but every once in a while,

I don't want people to think I thought this all the time

because I didn't.

But every once in a while,

and the word that I would use was uninspired.

And that's a word that a coach gave to me

about another player that was on his team, not the Eagles.

And sometimes I felt that.

I don't think he's lost it.

I think they were just times during the season where,

and again, this was a very difficult season,

you know, for a lot of reasons.

No defense of any player, that's not, you know,

giving it all all the time.

I mean, this is their job.

But it just was a really difficult offensive season

all around is, as you know, the fans know.

If he remains an eagle, I would bet that he'll be

kind of motivated and regenerated

because it's the kind of offense

where his style of receiver can really thrive.

Yeah, I have heard that.

And you said it, but we kind of keep hearing the reports

Adam Schaefter and a couple guys are even saying now

that AJ is the one who would like to be traded

and that the Eagles aren't gonna do it unless they get what they want.

But I was thinking maybe they could sell him

on this new offense, the innovative offense

that would be good for him.

You know this more than I, and I never talk about it

because I don't know it, you know,

now you're getting probably into maybe personal relationships

and things of that nature.

And I don't go there.

I don't know that.

I'm never going to discuss that.

You know, that's the stuff that you just don't know.

But I mean, as far as the X's and O's of this offense

and the tactical elements, it's an offense

that really fits his skill set extremely well.

Well, I would look forward to seeing him in the offense.

We'll see if it happens.

June 1st is obviously a big date

with the amount of cap hit they would happen.

So we'll wait and see.

But Greg, I appreciate your time.

Man, of course, Senior Producer at NFL Films.

You've been doing it for a long time.

You keep crushing it.

And I appreciate you taking some time

because I know you're heavy into the draft.

And do you have one guy that you'd like to see

the Eagles take it 23?

Hey, you know, I'm not there yet, John.

I'm just trying to grind through as many guys as I can.

And you know, the combine, I was at the combine for a week.

That always makes me feel even worse

because there's about 350 guys there.

And I just can't watch 350 guys

because I'm one person.

And I never take shortcuts in how I go about doing it.

But I just wish I could watch 350 guys, you know.

But so I'm not there with the draft as far as teams.

And yet I'm just trying to get through players.

Yeah, no, I hear it.

We'll keep up the good work.

It'll be interesting because if they're not able

to get an edge rush or maybe they would have to go edge

in the draft instead of maybe an offensive lineman lanes

replacement or maybe even a safety.

Yeah, and there's it's from what I gather.

There's, you know, because I've done some of them,

not all of them, obviously.

From what I gather, it's a pretty good group

that you'll be able, you know,

perhaps to get one in the second or third round,

that's a pretty good prospect.

And I think that's what people have to remember.

They're prospects.

You know, the later you get in the draft,

obviously, players are not evaluated as highly.

So you can't just assume a guy's gonna walk in

and be a great player.

Yeah.

And when you say you they could get a guy,

you mean an edge rusher?

Yeah, it's supposed to be a pretty good edge rusher class.

Like I said, I'll do far more than before.

It's all said and done,

but that's what I sort of been told

when I was at the combine that it's a pretty good

edge rusher class.

All right, well, we appreciate you taking the time,

Greco Cell.

Thanks for coming up for air with us

and get back to that film study.

We always look forward to it.

John, I appreciate it.

Always great to be with you.

Thanks.

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