Guarding childhood in an age of confusion

It's Six Eastern, three o'clock Pacific, from coast to coast and around the world.

It's anybody paying attention from America out loud talk radio.

I'll have black and white evidence that the FBI interfered in the 2016 election.

It's time for The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott.

First of all, let me welcome you into the program here on a Tuesday night and let you know

that right off the bat, this is going to be a little bit different hour here tonight.

Sure, there are a lot of political things happening in our country and some parts of the world

they seem to be on fire right now.

But one thing I say quite a bit and I think it's true, our biggest battle that we find ourselves

in right now is probably one for hearts and minds.

I believe we try too hard to find political or legislative solutions for the ailments

of our souls.

One subject I've dealt with quite a bit here on this program is the LGBTQIA plus plus

and I think they've added an S in there now in that community.

In child sex trafficking and human trafficking, I've dealt with all of those subjects.

How could we not right now when you take a look at culture and society?

We hear the stories of children being taken from parents to be transitioned to the opposite

sex.

Parents' rights are being taken away over the state and the state being able to transition

those children without the parents' consent.

If you're like me, you probably think all of this has gone a little bit too far at this

point.

We started with a few drag queen story times and the next thing you know, a 13-year-old

girl, has been taken from her parents in Montana to cross a state line where the laws make

it easier for that child to transition to the opposite sex.

The next time those parents see their daughter, it's their son.

And I don't know about you, but I want to learn more about that life because I just don't

understand it.

What makes a person feel that they're someone that they aren't and feel it so strong that

they go through extensive medical procedures and life-changing medication to achieve what?

Exactly what have they achieved when it's all done?

I'm not sure, but I'm willing to learn and I know I would like to know more.

As someone who sees the world through a biblical lens, this one's a tough one for me to understand.

But one thing that's easy for me to understand as a believer, as a Christian, that's compassion.

At this moment, in our Sodom and Gomorrah history of the 21st century, compassion and

empathy may be our best tactic for converting those hearts and minds.

I'm Booker Scott and this is The Truth Be Told on America Out Loud Talk Radio.

This hour is brought to you by shareright.org forward slash booker.

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In this hour, we're about to welcome a man to the show so that he can share his journey

from a boy to a man to husband and father to a woman for 30 years and back to a man and

how that happened.

Was it divine intervention or did it have to do with him digging into Scripture?

Listening to sermons going to church as a woman so that the Holy Spirit could change

his heart.

He's written his story in a new book.

It's called Not Man Enough to be a woman, transgendered for 30 years.

No lie lives forever.

His name is William Allen and William, thanks so much for coming and spending this time

with us and sharing your story with us so that we have a better understanding of what

this is all about.

Booker, it's good to be with you buddy.

Thank you.

You know, one place to start here is where I first came to know you and that was in a sermon

that Pastor Willie Rice, Dr. Willie Rice at Calvary Church did.

And when was that?

Was that in back in May?

That was May 19th.

May 19th, you know exactly.

So here's that sermon, a clip from that sermon.

This is when I became aware that you existed.

So let's listen to this clip here with Dr. Willie Rice at Calvary Church.

I got a letter the other day, kind of surprised me.

It was from a person named Maggie.

Maggie had written me a couple of times in the past, so it took me a moment, but I remember

getting emails from Maggie and apparently Maggie said I'd even called her to answer a question.

And more than that, Maggie had moved to Clearwater a few years ago and said I've been coming

to your church and a few years ago I came to be baptized.

You baptized me as Maggie.

You didn't know any better.

But I'm not Maggie.

She said in 1961 when I was born, I was born a male.

My name is William.

And I lied to you and I've been lying to a lot of people, including myself.

William said for 30 years, I've lived as a woman.

I can't explain it.

I don't understand it.

I got married as a young man.

It was a happy marriage, a good woman and I suppressed that desire and then it came back

and it ruined my marriage.

It cost me my family.

I was estranged with my parents.

But I'd settled down to a mostly comfortable life and almost nobody knew.

You didn't know.

I know you didn't know and I thought I was a Christian even.

Told people I'd ask Jesus into my heart but the truth is I never loved to read the Bible.

I never had a thirst for the things of God.

A couple years ago she said I was listening to you preach and something began to happen

in my heart.

I began to feel the Holy Spirit stirring and convicting me.

I began to watch a lot of it online but there were videos and I went back and watched

all the videos they had stored up in the archives and the website and then I started listening

to other preachers and fortunately Maggie was listening to really solid Bible preachers.

She listened to them.

I mean some strong ones.

And I began to listen to those and they made me mad at first.

But the more I began to listen, the more I knew they were telling me the truth.

And I began to hunger to know God and I knew I needed to repent.

Maggie said the day came when as I began to listen and think about all that had happened

in my life I realized I needed to repent and turn to God that I'd never been saved.

Maggie wrote me this letter and said I started to see all the people that I had to see

does a pretend woman and I saw the relationships with them as false and undeserved.

I'm reading the letter Maggie sent me.

I don't have time to read it all.

In fact later on maybe we'll find a way to communicate because it's so much in this story.

Maggie said I grew more and more disheartened with my own lifestyle.

I saw my lifestyle for what it was.

I saw my sin for what it was.

I broke down crying.

I mean ugly crying because I knew what a vile person I'd been all my life.

My desires no longer mattered.

I cried out to God confessing my sins and who I was.

Now I knew I needed a savior.

I repented and asked for forgiveness.

I turned away from it all.

I wanted to be pleasing in his eyes.

I wanted to put it all on Jesus and I gave up my life to him whatever required.

A level of peace that I have never experienced came over me.

Suddenly nothing in the world mattered any longer, at least not like what Jesus had done for me.

I now love reading and studying the Bible.

I pray a lot.

I love talking to others about Christ and I take any opportunity to present the gospel.

The Holy Spirit is living in me and is changing me and that's when I knew I wanted to fully repent.

The transition, I wanted to glorify God.

Maggie, not Maggie anymore, it's William, had to go through surgeries which people don't want to do.

They want to do the other kind that they don't know with this kind.

I had to go through surgeries.

Some things can never be undone but I changed my social security.

I had to go through all the legal processes.

I had to go back through it all.

But I was determined that I would repent and I would find who God really made me to be.

And then William, and it's a personal letter but I asked William,

is it okay if I read that?

He said it is.

I said, okay if I use your name, I don't have to.

He said, no, no, I want you to.

I'm writing a book.

I'm going to tell my story.

This has been a long time coming.

William said this.

Will you forgive me first of all because I didn't take who it really was.

I said, will of course.

And then William said, I know this is a sensitive question.

Would you baptize me as William, your brother in Christ?

Because now I've been saved.

And I want to apologize.

So tonight, out at the beach,

William's going to get baptized as somebody who wants to apologize.

And here's what I want to say.

I don't know what your story is.

But we have all messed up.

We've all believed lies the time or two about ourselves, about others.

And that's all an idol is.

It's a lie.

You believe some lies about who you are.

And William, I remember that sermon like it was yesterday.

And I'm sure that you probably do too.

I know at the end of it, I had tears in my eyes.

And on that night when you got baptized at the beach,

I made sure that I drove out to the beach that night to support you in getting baptized.

And you didn't know I was there.

You didn't care.

But I wanted to be there for that moment.

Because I was moved by your story.

Because we need so many more stories like yours.

And let's tell your story.

We heard a lot there from Pastor Willie.

But let's fill in some of the blanks that he didn't get into.

And as we go and look at your story, let's go back to being a child.

When was it that you first failed in some way that maybe you were supposed to be a girl instead of a boy?

When was that?

Well, I want to clarify something.

Because a lot of people, especially today, you hear people saying,

I identify as a girl or a woman,

or I'm used to hear the old,

I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body.

I'm really the other gender or the other sex.

I never felt that.

I want to differentiate this from the earliest time in my life

that I can remember.

I simply wanted to be a girl.

I wished I had been born a girl.

I can't explain.

And this is back around age four or five, far back as I can remember.

At the time,

I, you know, at that age,

I understood there were differences between boys and girls.

I knew my dad was a male.

I knew my mom was a female.

And I wanted to be a female.

I had a lot of cousins,

I had boy cousins and girl cousins.

I knew I was a boy,

but I wanted to be a girl.

I can't say that I felt like a girl.

I just wished I had been.

I don't know why.

And at that age, too,

I certainly wasn't aware of all the biological differences, of course.

But with whatever information I had at the time,

for some reason,

I wanted to be a girl rather than a boy.

Yeah, from four or five years old,

you felt that inside of you that you didn't feel like a girl.

You didn't feel like you were a girl.

You knew the difference,

but you wanted to be a girl.

And is that gender dysphoria?

What exactly is that?

Is there a term for it?

When I had gotten a little bit,

quite a bit older,

I can in my 20s.

Eventually, I, you know,

was seeing psychologists.

And the diagnosis they had back then was called gender identity disorder.

Today, it's called gender dysphoria.

And gender identity disorder was listed as a mental disorder.

In the DSM 3,

the diagnostics statistics manual.

And this is what the psychiatrist used for differentiating between all the different mental disorders and treatments and such.

Today, in the DSM 5,

it's called gender dysphoria.

And it,

it's not so much listed as a mental disorder,

and it focuses more on the person's identity.

And so I think to a degree,

even the DSM has gone woke.

Yeah.

Because they've even changed certain designations like,

you know,

when we're born,

we're male or female.

That's right.

There's a choice of two.

Right.

Yeah.

They've changed those words now to gender assigned at birth.

You know, male assigned at birth or female assigned at birth.

It leaves it open.

Right.

They leave it open, don't they?

Yeah.

So that it can be changed easily later on.

Yeah.

So as a young man,

you get married,

you get married as a young man.

And, you know,

that you're in a marriage and eventually,

somewhere along the way,

you decide to become a woman.

And what was that like at that point in your life?

What was going on with you mental?

Become a woman as much as anyone can.

Yeah.

You know,

in reality,

that just can't happen.

You know,

and I got to say,

I see people today that are doing these things,

and it just really bugs me.

And I look at them sometimes thinking,

man, these guys are cheap or weird.

You know, why in the world would they want it?

And then all of a sudden,

I come back and I wait and hold on.

Yeah.

I did that.

Yeah.

Did you consider yourself ever weird?

Or did you perceive that people thought that you were weird?

Oh, of course.

Yeah.

From from day one,

I knew I was weird,

and I knew I had to hide it as a child even.

Because I,

I mean, there's no,

I knew whatever it was that I was feeling.

And you know,

I had dress up time and,

and all that.

I acted out.

I knew that.

There was something telling me that was wrong.

And,

and I hid it.

And I dealt with it the best I could.

And growing up,

I,

it's not like I was playing with barbies or anything like that.

I was doing all the boy stuff.

And,

um,

but I,

in secret,

I would,

I would have my own dress up time,

pretend time.

Yeah.

William, were you,

were you raised in a family of church goers?

Did a church goers?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So,

I can't necessarily say that my parents were Christians.

It's, it's hard for me to

know that for sure.

But we did go to church.

And,

I was raised in the,

in the Methodist church.

Okay.

Do you feel like any of those things that popped in your mind

like this is wrong?

Did that come from your early indoctrination in church?

Or did that come from your parents?

Or was that something just within you that says,

hey, I'm a little boy,

but I want to be a girl.

And this isn't right.

Where does that come from?

In a kid that's,

I think it was just,

I think it was just something internal.

It was just something I,

inherently knew wasn't right.

And,

and because I knew I had to hide it,

that was one reason I knew that it wasn't right.

And,

I don't think it was because of any message I got from church

or because of

anything,

any documentation from my own parents,

right?

Because they didn't know about it.

Yeah, you were,

you were playing dress up and hiding it from them.

Yeah, because,

because you felt inside

that it was wrong.

And because,

and, and because of that,

you hid what you were doing.

Yeah.

So I get that.

So take us,

take us,

yeah, take us on to your marriage and then,

you know,

the transition into becoming

Maggie.

Where does that start?

Where does,

how does that happen?

Right, right.

Well,

yeah, that whole thing

dog me for most of my life

and,

and,

and to early adulthood.

I'm getting through,

university.

It was difficult.

And,

because it was just on my mind

all the time.

This,

this thing.

And,

you know, if you knew,

had known me before,

you never would have guessed

that I would ever do something like that.

I mean,

I was not a feminine.

And,

I was a gay.

You were a masculine man,

and you're not gay.

Yeah.

You're still not gay,

are you?

See, that's,

that's something someone like me

needs to understand.

Because,

you know, we just don't know.

We don't know what any of this means.

There are so many variations.

We just,

we just wanted to stop.

You know,

we just wanted to stop.

And, in fact,

we're up against a break,

so we're going to come right back

and continue this conversation.

We're talking to William Allen.

He transitioned

as a young man

to a woman,

where he stayed for 30 years.

And,

you just heard his story there

from Pastor Willie.

We're going to continue

with his story here

in just a minute.

More,

The Truth Be Told

with Booker Scott

in Minutes,

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Additional podcast

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Talk Radio.

I'm Booker Scott.

We're being joined

tonight by an author

now who just wrote a book.

I'm going to give you

information about how

you can find that book

a little bit later.

William, let's get back

into the conversation.

When we went to the

break there, I was trying

to get you to start

talking about the transition.

You were married

and at that point in

your life, you decided

to go ahead and go

through that.

And as William mentioned

in the sermon there,

you heard a lot of people

and you admit that you

heard a lot of people.

I have to imagine

that your wife was

a casualty in this.

Oh, yeah.

A lot of people were my

father, my mother,

a lot of people were.

Yeah.

I had been dealing

with the situation

and really, once I had

moved out to the

sift northwest where I

had a job after

university, I started

actually explore this

a lot more.

I had a lot of people

where my father, my

mother, a lot of people

were.

Yeah.

I had been dealing

with the situation

and really, once I had

moved out to the sift

northwest, I was

planning to explore this

a lot more and found out

that there were people

like, like me, I didn't

know that most in my life

And that was a huge

relief.

And finding them

and kind of opened up

the possibilities.

It opened up some exploration

on my part.

And as I was doing that,

one day out by

the blue, I met a girl

and we hit it off

person we were going to marry. And several months later we were married. And the greatest

thing was that when this happened, all those desires that I had, they went away. They're

gone. I thought I was cured.

Yeah, so you became cured for a moment in time there when you find the person that will

be your wife. Yeah. Was that a relief to you? Oh, yes, absolutely. And at the time too,

I had always thought I was Christian. Like I said, I was raised up in the church and there

were key moments in my life. And we're kind of realizing, you know, maybe I wasn't saved.

And I did some soul searching and said a prayer, you know, one that's often called the

sinners prayer. And, and hey, I'm saved now for real this time. And I got to tell you,

I've been saved four or five times. It only takes one. So it only takes one good one.

It only takes one good one. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I got married. And for a while, for

year and a half or so, it was just fantastic marriage. We were hitting it up. We were just

doing great. And after about a year and a half, two years, it, my old nemesis came back and

with a vengeance. It was kind of like, it was an entity and it hadn't gotten any attention

for the past couple of years. And so, you know, it really took a prominent position in my, in my mind

and my life. And I got to the point where I just couldn't, couldn't deal with that anymore. And

there, there came a point where I had to confide in my life and tell her what was going on.

So I thought I'd had it lit, but I didn't, obviously. And how did that go? I'm curious,

how that conversation went. Yeah. Not well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She, she was a garbage woman. She,

just the real, you know, stereotypical girl girl. And she, she wanted that role. She wanted

to raise children. And, and she had $10 under whole future on me. And, man, I just, it was just

awful that, you know, what I did. But dealing with what I was dealing with, there was just no way

that we could go on. And where she, she filed for divorce. And I can't blame her. I didn't want it,

but it was clear that it just was not going to work out, obviously. Yeah. How soon,

how soon after that divorce, do you start transitioning? And we're talking what year here?

This is what? 35 years ago, roughly? That was, well, I started the transition in 93. And I think

we got divorced in 89. So it was, it was, there's a couple of three years. Yeah.

So we made the decision. Yeah. But, you know, in between there, there was the tail end of the

divorce there. There was, there was a real close call with suicide. I had just lost my wife and

basically, that was my whole life at that point, you know. And I was dealing with this thing that

I thought I was rid of. And man, it was, it was bad. And I, so the divorce, the divorce almost

drives you to suicide because you identified your life and your person with that marriage and

that marriage is over. And it takes you to the depths of depression. And now in two or three years,

you identify as a woman and become a woman. Well, and again, I don't, I don't want to ever say

that I identified as a woman. I know a lot of people say that. And I never say that I identified

as a woman. Again, I wanted to be a woman. Now, I knew that was impossible. But there were

steps that I could take to at least live presenting as a woman. And, you know, I get it, there's

so many dudes and dresses out there. And it's awfully clear and obvious that they're just

dudes and, dudes and dresses. Right. Now, there are some that present very well. And you wouldn't,

you wouldn't know. A lot of them, soon as they open their mouth, the jig is up though.

Yeah, correct. And I, I feel like, see, was if you're going to do this, come on, put some effort

into it and go see a voice coach or something, which is what I did. And I had really worked on my

reason. So this is after I had finally made the decision to do this. And I want to note too,

that in my counseling, I talked to different psychiatrists. I talked to a lot of different

pastors as well. My initial goal was to make this go away. And I was talking to people that

knew something about the subject, but I told them, my friend, I said, I don't want to do this.

I want this whole thing to go away. And listening to your story, it's almost like you always wanted

it to go away, but it wouldn't. Would it? Even when you were a little boy, you knew it was wrong.

You shouldn't be doing it, but you were still playing dress up in hiding. And then as a young adult,

you still want it. I just want it to go away. Stop it. But for some reason, you couldn't do it,

even with a lot of help from other people. No, yeah, good. So I finally realized that I'm either

going to go through this change, or I'm going to wind up dead. And so I had been playing with

the presentation and I had gotten a lot of compliments from people. And I did go see a voice coach

and was able to modify my own voice. And for a couple of years, I had to be conscious of it and

making it really eventually became natural, didn't have to think about it. And just in contrast,

I can tell you, I still have, I just completed the detransition last October. I can tell you that

even at this point, I'm still having to make a conscious effort to keep my voice more masculine

at this point. Yeah, well, you were using the other voice for 30 years. Yeah, exactly. And I'm assuming

that you worked also during those 30 years. How did that go? Did the people that you worked with

know you and believe you to be a woman as Maggie? Well, I was going to leave my company and transition

and start over someplace else. I had told my boss about it because I needed to use him as a reference.

Through a series of events, the corporate, all the corporate people found out about it and

they called me and they summoned me into an office. And they sat me down and told me they wanted

me to stay and that they would support me. And they made it offer and it's kind of hard to resist.

So I did stay. I transitioned on that on the job and had a lot of support from a lot of people.

So obviously the people there knew outside of the company, the customers we dealt with,

the vendors that I worked with, and just new friends that I made after I had transitioned.

They didn't know. And it might sound like I'm bragging a little bit, but I was passing.

And people accept me for who and what I appeared to be. Well, and Willie just talked about it too

in the clip that I played here in this hour, talking about you coming to church as Maggie and

being baptized even as Maggie. So you passed, you passed really well. And you know that they,

people that come to be baptized, they ask questions. They want to make sure that you

understand, yeah. Exactly. And so they talked with me and asked me the questions and stuff. And

they didn't know. I was deceiving them. And of course at the time, I didn't see that wrong to me.

I was just who I was at the time. But yeah, he baptized me into false pretenses, obviously.

For one thing, I wasn't a Christian at the time. And also I wasn't who I said it was.

Yeah, right. So, uh, yeah. So I just bring that up. I bring that up because you passed.

You were saying that you passed. And you obviously passed. You passed in church to be baptized

as a woman. And you came to that congregation on somewhat a regular basis. I'm assuming.

No, yeah. Yeah. And I had other jobs. I moved on to other jobs and careers. And nobody knew.

Unless I told them, uh, even then sometimes it didn't believe me. Um, but of course,

my family, they, they still probably saw the old me, but some of them accepted me and some didn't.

And I know another part of the story, William, and maybe a painful part of the story,

is you being estranged from your father. And you told me before we had this conversation here

on the radio when we were talking on the telephone that the name of the book comes really from

your father. Can you, can you talk about that? Yeah. Um, in 1993, uh, it was, uh, tail, it was, uh,

tail in 1992, actually, I had gone home for Christmas. A few months prior to that, I had written

a letter telling my parents what I was getting ready to do. And I realized it didn't, I couldn't

convey much emotion or, uh, sense of urgency or anguish in that letter. So I recorded a tape.

And, uh, uh, sent that to my folks. Turns out my dad refused to listen to the tape.

And they called me up and said, what's going on? And I just could not, I couldn't say it.

He started playing 20 questions with me and he finally nailed it. And, uh, he said, well, come

home for Christmas and we'll talk about it. So I did come home and it was the last night that I was

there. Uh, I had to go back to Seattle where I worked at the time the next morning. And, uh, so we,

we sat down, we had this conversation. And it started off okay. He was asking some genuine,

uh, sincere questions and, but then it started turning ugly. And, uh, you know, my dad, he had,

he had been proud of his boy, you know, I asked my boy, he was eagle scout. Uh, that's my boy.

He just, this pilot's license. He's graduated university. That's, that's my boy. I'm proud of my

boy. And all of a sudden this boy wanted to be a girl. And that had to be devastating. I get it.

And honestly, I can't say I would have handled this any differently. Um, but he, in, in during this

talk, uh, and he was just getting so, so frustrated. He went off on this diatribe about his

sisters. He had six sisters. And he talked about their virtues and just how wonderful they were,

how women in general really and how, in many ways, the women are superior to men. And, and then

his frustration, he just couldn't quite get out what he wanted to say, but he did spit out some

words that kind of got my attention. And what he said was, you're just not man enough to be a woman.

And at the time, I felt like chuckling, but that was obviously not the right thing to do. Uh,

and the conversation went downhill from there. But when I started writing this book, that popped

back into my head. And I just thought, well, that's the book title. Yeah, it's a great title.

The, the title itself, the words are kind of nonsensical, but I still thought it made a good book title.

Yeah, it really does. And I'm going to tell everyone where they can find that book. It will also

be available in the shop. I had America out loud dot news. So if you're listening to this on a

podcast after the live broadcast, then while you're doing that, you can go to America out loud dot com

or dot news, either one of those go in the shop and then look for all of the books that are there

from all the different authors that you hear right here on the network. Before we come up to another

break, let's get back to your transition. You have the conversation with your dad. And now you go

through it medically and in every way. Don't you? You change your name from where you william to

begin with or okay, so that is your name. So you go from William to Maggie. Take us to Margaret

and then Maggie came from that. Okay. So you even changed Margaret's name to Maggie. So take us

through that transition there 30 years ago. You started to talking about your experience at work,

how they kept you and were supportive. And you become a female and you pass. Everybody thinks

you are a female. But I guess at some point you decide, I'm still not happy. This isn't what I

want. Now, no, isn't it? Well, it was a long time, but no, I was happy. The process involved

the hormones, which really they do a number on your body. I mean, a lot of things happened in

a skin texture change, fat redistributed hair texture change will improve breasts. A lot of

things happened. And I had gotten electrolysis to get rid of my beard. So my beard would have taken

out one follicle at a time, about a hundred hours of that. There's obviously the surgeries.

And at the time, there was a set of standards in place that you had to go through. One of the

biggest requirements was that you have to live in the opposite role for a year before you can

have that surgery. And the process was designed to weed people out.

Do they do that anymore? Well, it's been completely thrown out the window. Yeah, I knew they used to

do that. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So I did that and did my year in a couple of two, three more

months. And and I did have that final surgery that's called a vaginal plastic. And it's

pretty well accomplished. This is back in 1994's when I had that surgery. And it's pretty well

accomplished. They say that kind of college can't even tell the difference on a visual inspection.

So after that had happened, I had a tight book or I was happy. I was living and presenting as

woman. And eventually I had moved on to other companies. I lived and worked in three different

countries. And I said people just didn't know. After a couple of years, too, I started getting

attention from men. And I kind of started to like it. And I dated a little bit.

And I said, had other jobs. I didn't have any serious relationships.

There came a point where having been on the hormones for a few years, and like I said,

getting attention from men. And I realized I still notice women, but it's more I'm paying attention

to what they're wearing or how they got their hair done. And they're gait, how they're walking.

How they're communicating. So that you can dress like them, do make up like them, and walk

like them, but not in a way of being attractive to them. And it doesn't really sound like you're

necessarily or were necessarily attracted to men either. But it was maybe something that made

you feel good that you were getting the attention that you craved being a woman.

Yeah. And going into it, I had heard that if you're straight to begin with, you'll most likely

be straight afterwards. Now, if you think of the word straight, meaning an opposite sex attraction,

if I was a guy and I was attracted to women at the time, I go through this in sort of a woman

within still opposite sex attraction, meaning I would then be attracted to men. Okay, there's

that scenario. The other scenario is if you're gay to begin with, you'll most likely still be gay

afterwards. So it was up in the air. Who knew? I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't

necessarily want to still be attracted to women because I've been making me a lesbian. And that's

a whole other set of issues. But will you mean it doesn't sound like this is about sex, though?

Is it? No, no, it's not at all. That's not what I'm getting from this. Yeah, it's not there's

there's sexual attraction to one gender or another. And then there's who you think you are or

how you want to live, how you see yourself. And we're going to get into a break here, but I want

to get into that conversation with everything that we see going on here in the 21st century

in America, in Western civilization. And it's disturbing. It's something that we deal with on

this show and this network quite a bit. And I want to talk about that with William Howard coming

up more truth in minutes on America out loud talk radio.

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Tonight at 9 o'clock it is after dark with Robin Andrew and that follows the national security

hour at 8 o'clock Eastern and coming up here in just a few minutes, it is unleashed the political

news hour. I'm Booker Scott. This is the truth. We are having an interesting conversation here

with William Allen who transitioned from a young man in his 20s. I guess about 30 who transitioned

to a female who stayed a female for 30 years. And as you just heard, he was happy as a female,

but he didn't stay happy forever. Something happened along the way that made William look for

something more. So let's get into the conversation there, William. What was it that made you look

for something else? You had looked to become a girl at one point and then a female, a woman,

and now you're back to a man and it's an incredible story. So take us there.

Well, for 20 plus years, I was happy and lived and worked in three different countries settled

into a very comfortable lifestyle. And in 2015, I came back to Clearwater from the Pacific Northwest.

My father was terminal. Now we hadn't spoken in 23 years at the time. I was still in touch with my

mother, though. And it's not to say that she approved of or liked what I did, but she still loved

her child. And so we still talk, but we did it and we did it clandestinely. Dad never really knew

about it. So you don't talk to your dad for 24 years. He's still upset, so angry, that his son

became a daughter. And there were some others in the family too. It's a very large family. He

was one of eight. And so I've got a lot of aunts and uncles, a lot of cousins, and not all of the

family accepted it either. They didn't all affirm me. Some did. So it was nice to be able to

still be in touch with some of that family. But yeah, in 2015, he was coming to the end of about

a three year fight with cancer. And he didn't have much longer to live. And my mother too was

just starting to get pretty sick as well, excuse me. And I had told her that at any time,

I'm ready to come down and you know, take care of her. And he was pretty much in the hospital

full time. Now I'm an only child. I'm the only only child in the old family. So I didn't have any

siblings that were taking care of them, but there was another aunt and uncle here in town that

was helping out best they could. And it was, I had talked to my mother one night and she finally

agreed to let me come down and start taking care of her because she was having a hard time getting

around. She couldn't take care of him anymore either. And plus knowing that dad was terminal,

I'd have to be here anyway. So the very next morning, I got a call from my aunt and she said

that my mother passed during the night. Wait, what? You mean dad? No, it was my mother. Totally

unexpected. So now you're left with your dad and his daughter, you. Yeah. So I hopped a plane

and got into the town the next day. My aunt and uncle picked me up. Now this particular aunt and

uncle, they had never seen Maggie before. And we had only resumed communication, maybe a

couple of years before that as well. So it was awkward for everybody, obviously. And so I got

home. Mom was in the more dad was in the hospital and pretty much out of it. So my aunt and I were

spending quite a bit of time at the hospital. Now she would go into the room with dad. I wouldn't.

I didn't want to cause any grief for him, especially considering the state he was in. Yeah.

In his last days. And she was so hoping that I'd be able to go in and there was a nurse there

that I was working quite a bit with them. And she knew that he had a son. So when I showed up,

she was confused. And so my aunt explained the whole story to her. Well, that nurse and my aunt

conspired lovingly and tried to get me to go in. And I really did not want to cause him any

grief. And there was an element too. If I didn't, I knew he was not going to be the same man that I

knew. He was going to look a lot different. Sure. Quarter of a century. Yeah. Exactly. And I really

would rather have remembered him from when we were still good. And so they came up with a plan.

And I made him a deal. I said, look, if you tell him that it's Maggie that's here, not William,

make sure he understands that. And if he can't answer you verbally, tell him to blink his

eyes twice if he wants to see me. And I'm thinking this is not going to happen. There's no way. I

thought that was a safe bet. So they went in there and my aunt apparently told him that Maggie was

here and made sure he understood and she asked him if he wanted to see me and he blinked his eyes twice.

She came out and said he blinked his eyes twice. I couldn't believe it. So at that point, the nurse

calls out from inside the room and says he just said send her in. Wow. Okay. This is crazy.

So I went in and it was a very awkward. It was a stressful thing for me. And I'm sure for him too.

Of course, I get choked up when I start thinking about it. Yeah. Did you get any resolution

from that at all? It came from it. It was a deathbed reconciliation. Yeah. I went in, I saw him,

I went up to him and held his hand. And I told him, I said, whatever happened between us is in

the past. And if you want, I'll help you get through this and he squeezed my hand. And

then about a day and a half, two days, yeah, he passed. So that was that was just an amazing thing.

And my aunt and I are still in awe about that today. Yeah. And I never thought that would happen.

The crazy thing too is I'm not crazy, but kind of a neat thing that happened in 1993 when I had

had that conversation with my folks the next day, they had to drive me to the airport and dad drove.

Of course, not a word was spoken. And when I got to the airport and got out, my mother got out

as well. And she gave me a hug and she whispered in my ear. She said, nothing is forever.

So all those years, all those 23 years, you know, he would never, he would never speak to me.

And but mom was right, though, in the year she was right. Yeah. And nothing is forever. And mom told you

that I came to realize too, if she hadn't died when she did, I would not have been there in time.

That's right. To be with dad. Yeah. And nor if she had died after him, you may have never had

the opportunity to even have that reconciliation. So it's amazing how God works in our lives.

And things like that a lot of times, people don't even recognize if they would just step back

a little bit, they could say, hey, that's God working. And for some reason, we don't always pay

attention to it. We don't keep ourselves quiet and still enough to do that. So let's take your

story now to where you transition back to William. That's where you are now. And it took a lot of

years to get here. I assume that you know, you said it was October of 2023 when you de-transitioned.

I assume you completed the process. Yeah. From 2015 on, I had to be here for at least a year,

because it's a probate took that long to settle my parents estate. And so during that time,

I started going to this church that my uncle was going to. It's time in which was, was Calgary.

And you know, I had gone to a lot of churches in my life. And I'm early childhood. I was raised

in the church. I never really listened to sermons or anything. Well, a lot of them were just

speaking gibberish. Nothing ever made any sense. And so I'm going to church at Calgary. And

after really, he had announced probably 2016, I think. And now that we're going to do the

beach baptism, and I thought, well, I've never been. I was supposedly baptized as a child,

as a Methodist, but that's not really baptism. And I thought, well, let's just go do this,

because I think I'm a Christian. You know, I believed in Jesus. I believed in God. I believed

Jesus died for my sins. And I had the basics, basic understanding. And so I went on to baptized.

Well, obviously I kept going to Calgary. And after a few more months,

who thinks pastor really was saying started to make some sense. I started taking notice of a lot

of things that were said. And one thing I realized, that all the pastors and preachers

who have a TV personalities that I had heard before, they weren't really talking. None of them were

ever talking about sin and hell and repentance. It was all feel good. You know, God is great.

You're great. Yeah. God wants what's great for you, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'd always heard that, you know, Jesus died for your sins. I'd always heard that

cavalierly, nonchalantly. And that's kind of how it was added in my head. I had more of an

intellectual belief, I think, than anything else. And it was a blind faith, really. But listen

more to Pastor Willie. I started hearing some things that initially didn't necessarily what I

wanted to hear. And even so, because of that, somehow that went credibility to what he was saying.

You know, and I started paying more attention. And at the same time, I became a YouTube at it.

And I started stumbling on to videos from John MacArthur. And Ray Comforts, Todd Freel,

Steve Lawson, Bodie Balcom, Percy Sproul. And the thing that I noticed was they're all preaching

the same thing. Certainly the same core issues anyway. And I had never really understood this whole

repentance and hell and sin and the relationship. I didn't understand any consequences, right?

And I started getting into apologetics. I learned about evidence for God, a creator God,

and for Jesus. And I heard somebody talking about everything that was Frank Turk, and I heard

him talking about not just evidence for all this, but overwhelming evidence. You know,

with an evidence, wow, I mean, my head wanted to explode. So I started exploring that and looking

at real scientific evidence and archaeological evidence, DNA, I mean, real hardcore stuff.

And I no longer had just a blind faith. I had a faith based on evidence. And I think that kind

of helped push me along. And I got to say, listen, I looking back on this thing, I can't help

the thing how dim-witted I was and I just could not get this for so long. Yeah. It took

it took so long. And I also have to just thank God and praise God for his patience. Man,

it took a while. And we heard we heard there with Willie's clip, how this ended, where it culminated.

And that was with the beach baptism, where you decided that it was time to publicly display

that I am William. And I thought, you know, the thing that made me tear up in that sermon was

the words that you said, I want to look at you as a Christian brother. And that was really

strong. And those were such good words. And, you know, as we started this hour here tonight,

I really wanted people to have a better understanding so that there could be maybe some compassion

and some empathy so that we can change hearts and minds instead of just trying to legislate

or put some type of policy from a politician that we need to have a caring, compassionate heart.

But at the same time, there are some wacky things going on in our country right now. And I know

you stand against those things that are going on with the transgender. We've got about a minute

or a minute and a half. So I want you to talk about how that LGBTQ community has been hijacked,

how what they are doing to our children, and then also tell everybody how they can get your

book also. Well, after, you know, I had come to Christ, obviously, I realized eventually I needed

to detransition. And I got to tell you, that was a three year process. And even finding a surgeon

was hard because every time I talked to somebody, I told them that I was detransitioning,

nobody wanted to have anything to do with me. It took me twice as long to find a surgeon I thought

it was going to take because I needed to get a mastectomy. And I got way behind schedule. So it was

as if there were roadblocks being put up. And even my own medical doctor was causing me grief.

And they just didn't want me to do this. And so, and that's one of the side effects of what's

going on today. I, you know, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of kids. I don't like care for kids

that much. Honestly, but if I ever see a kid in danger or being abused or mistreated, I will go

absolutely nuts. And what I see right now going on is making me go absolutely nuts. And so as part

of the book, the last chapter was going to be a treat us on what's going on today, how this all

got started, because they are coming after the children. They're trans and the kids, Booker. Yep,

100%. And one thing I want to call out is the American College of Pediatricians

states that 80 to 95% of children with gender dysphoria will resolve

if left unmetically and unsociely transitioned. And they will resolve in late adolescence.

In other words, 80, in other words, more than three quarters of kids that experience this will grow

out of it on their own. And just let them be kids, let them be kids. Can we agree to that?

And William, I want to thank you so much. And give everybody the title of the book again. We have

to go. Our time is up. Unleash the political news hours coming up here in just a minute.

But go ahead and give us the name of that book again and tell people where they could get it.

Not not man enough to be a woman. You can get it on Amazon. For now, it will be on other platforms

soon in your story well. And also you can follow me on Twitter if you like or ex it's at WM Allen

a L-O-E-M 2024 at WM Allen 2024 on Twitter. You can follow me.

William, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I hope that people have learned

something here in this hour. And I want you to remember that you were told 2,000 years ago

that you are the salt of the earth and salt without flavor. It has no value. So whatever you do,

keep being salty. Have yourself a great night. There is only one truth.

You've been listening to The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott on America Out Loud.