Gunfighters Rule: What Combat, Command, and Iran reveal about war and responsibility

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appreciate you being here. So now let's get started. Today's conversation is

with retired career marine and president of strategic reliance group Colonel

William Dunn to talk about his book Gunfighter's Rule, his life story about

becoming a marine, a story of resilience and determination. Colonel Dunn, thank

you so much for joining us here this morning. I'm glad to finally meet you. I

feel like I already know you after reading your book. Well, hey, thanks so much

for having me and I really appreciate that. Yeah, you know, why did you decide

to write this book after you had retired from the Marines? Well, that's a

great question. And so when I was a Ford Air Controller during OIF-1, I kept

a journal and we were a marine infantry battalion and I was a company Ford

Air Controller, which means our team, our fifth team was going to control air and

bring it in on the enemy as we drove to Baghdad. And so I kept that journal and

all the Marines in the track. We were in a Amtrak. They were saying, you know,

hey, sir, you need to write a book. You need to write a book. And so I never really

thought about it. But I kept that journal. And then as I, we got out of OIF-1,

we finished that war. You know, there was a lot of, let's just say a lot of

stories right there in that event from, you know, spending about four months in

combat. And then I came back and I did some other things and I ended up being

going back into Iraq as a squadron commander of the gunfighters, hence the name

of the book. And all of that, you know, I would say there's a lot of pent up

aggression, if you will, if you're a combat person in many times. And so when I

when I finished up the squadron tour, I sat down and about, literally in about

three weeks, I wrote the book. But then it was very stressful. And it took me

about, you know, many years to get it from finished book into published book

because it was a very stressful thing to do. And when you go back and look at

some of the things that you did in combat and the things you saw in combat,

you know, sometimes that brings out some different emotions. So it took a long

time to get what I would say. I finished book to a published book, but I was glad I

did it. Well, it reads very well. It reads, it's, it's like a suspense thriller. It

just like pulls you through all the different battles and all the kind of

behind the things behind the scene, things that happen on a squadron and within

your commander and things like that, that the general public wouldn't know

about. They wouldn't know, you know, some of the stories of things that would

happen. And that's what really makes it interesting because we as civilians

get a little behind the scenes, look at what it means to be a marine. And

that's why it's really, really a compelling book to read.

Well, thank you. And you know, one of the things that I wanted to bring out is

the family aspect of it because when you're a career marine, whether you're a

man or a woman, and you have a family, your family is serving too. Sometimes

that's good. And as you, as you read through the book, you'll see some stuff

that my wife went through that, that wasn't very nice. You know, it's, it's

shocking. And even today, you know, we'll talk about it. And it's some things

that I did not see because it's behind the scene. Some of the, you know,

sometimes men and women can be petty at things. And I decided it was important

to put that in the book because I would like, I would like to read it to

understand, you know, there is a huge, you know, I believe there's a beautiful

impression of the Marine Corps, which I agree. And I love the Marine Corps.

But not everything is clean and rosy. And I tried to bring that out of the

book because that's life. You know, we have great Marines, 99% of them are

great. But occasionally we'll have a few that aren't, aren't so great. And the

public needs to understand that. We're just human beings too.

And your, your human treatment, human beings too, you know, trained to do a

specific job. And I think that, you know, people who aren't in the military

don't understand it. You know, in your book, the gunfighter's role, you bring

out the fact that you've wanted to be a Marine ever since you were, you know, a

young boy that you decided your family came, was in the military, your family

was in the Air Force, but you wanted to be a Marine. And after a full career, 33

years in the Marines looking back, was the time in the Marine Corps, everything

you thought it would be?

Oh, it was, it was more. I mean, to say that I mean, look at my hair.

When I retired, I tried, I tried to grow a beard. I tried to let my hair grow

along. I couldn't do it. So I mean, I'm still a Marine, right? Once a Marine

always a Marine, it was more. It gave me as a human being. It gave me

everything that I've had in my life and in my family too, you know, they, you

know, my oldest daughter, Big S in the book, you know, it's funny. And I don't

think I put this part in the book, but she one day met a guy. He was a nice,

nice kid. And he would cry a lot. And, you know, he was a friend of

hers and she called me up and she said, that I just don't understand it. I am

used to living with, you know, hard, hard men, Marines. She goes, I have a hard

time dealing with a guy that's crying because every one of our friends that she

saw are just tough Marines, right? So it's, it's just a way of life. And I

loved it. And I would say, for what my expectations, well, I didn't really know

my expectations were coming in the Marine Corps as a 17 year old, but it gave me

everything. And it was four more, I hate to say this, but the Marine Corps

unfortunately gave me way more than I was able to give because they just gave me

everything. And I tried to give back as much as I could, but they give you so

much more than a individual, because it's a team, an individual can probably

never give back unless you give your life. Unfortunately, some, some Marines have

given their life for our core and our country, but you can never give back

what the Marine Corps gives you fully because they give you everything in my

opinion. That's really a strong recommendation. Would you encourage young

people to become a Marine? Not all. Right. I would, you know, a friend of mine

gave me this saying one day and you know, our dress uniform is called dress

blues. And he said, dress blues come in many sizes, but they don't fit

everybody. And so if you want to come in the Marine Corps, it takes a special

manner woman to do it. And you know, I love the other services, right? I do. But

the Marines are different and not everyone can be a Marine. And that's how we

want it. But I would always recommend someone to try. But if you try, you better

be ready, because the Marine Corps will get you through. But it's something you

really have to love. Because you know, and someone asked me this question one day,

they brought up a point, well, you know, your family comes first. And I would say

unfortunately, I would disagree in the military. Your family does not come first.

The military comes first because if if they did, you wouldn't deploy, right? You

know, oh, hey, you have to deploy for six months. You say, well, my family comes

first. I'm not going. So we can never put our families first in the military

completely. Because when the call comes to the ploy and going to combat, you

have to pack your bags and go. And there's no looking back. You go. So you can't

put your family first. But that is why the Marine Corps family does the best

that they can do to take care of your family when you're gone. And in most instances,

it is truly a family for the for the employers, whether they're men or women,

and for the family's back home. You know, you told a story in the book about a

woman Marine. I believe she was an air, air, air, she was a fighter pilot. And she

wanted to not go to the commander ball because she wanted, she just had a baby and she

wanted to stay home and nurse her baby. But then there was a person, a group that had gotten

killed and she was like, I'm ready to go back. I need to go back. So it was more important

for her to reengage as a Marine. Then she didn't want to go to the ball because she was

wanting to, you know, breastfeed her baby. How do how do men basically feel about women as Marines?

Well, I love them. But they they they have got to be in, you know, I have served in combat with

women pilots. I flew combat missions with them in my aircraft. No problem. You know, no problem.

But everybody, whether you're a man or woman has got to meet the standard. And what we have done

over time, and I did, you know, like I say, I'm speaking from perfect knowledge. When I was in

flight school, there was a Navy female student that had failed. We called him down. She had received

six downs. A male would get two and you were out. She had received six and she almost killed me

and she almost caused an aircraft aircraft miss out when I was in the aircraft. And I had to give the

instructor a direct order to take controls on the aircraft. And I was a second lieutenant. He was

he was a he was way senior to me. He was a Navy lieutenant. But he knew he took controls. She gets

another down. Well, she went on and finished. Now, I don't know what kind of pilot she became,

whether she was a great pilot, a Navy or not. But there's a design to fly a certain amount of time

and nobody should be given what I consider extra time above anyone else. And I am confident that

our marine pilots, regardless of their men or women, are outstanding. And you need that you need

to have that belief when you're sitting next to someone or sitting behind someone and you're going

to fly a combat mission. I don't want to doubt whether or not you're going to get me killed. I have

to know that you are the best. In the female pilots that I personally flew with, I never had one

concern. You know, and I think what Secretary Hagceth had said, you know, in his approval process,

he said, I don't care if they're men, women, if they're green, purple, or blue, as long as they

meet the standards, you know, and I think that that's the same thing that you're saying is that

they have everyone has to perform to that same standard for that confidence level. You know, in your

book, Gunfighters Rule, it's a very intimate autobiography about your life as a marine commander.

And all the 33 years that you were in the Marines and being a commander, which part did you like the

best? You know, it's funny. It's funny you asked that because I just had this conversation with my wife

the other day. I'm one of the type individuals. I love wherever I live. I've never had a bad

duty assignment. My favorite time in the Marine Corps was when I was a first lieutenant flying covers

out of New River, North Carolina as a brand new pilot. You know, that was probably my favorite time

as a human being. My best time as a Marine is always when I've been in command. Command to me,

the honor of command is, it's amazing. And I have been blessed because I commanded a squadron,

and then I commanded a Marine aircraft group, and then I commanded a Marine Expeditionary Unit.

And I have been blessed. It's like they took an average guy and they surrounded me with

the best possible staffs. And so I ended up having exceptional commands because of the people

that I was surrounded with. And I tell you, I've heard some people call them, they call it the burden

of command, right? To me, if someone said that to me, I would want to take the command away from them.

It's not a burden. It's an honor. It's a privilege. And you know, some of my very good friends have

called them, you know, this is terrible. This is the burden of command. I'm like, I never felt

burden one day. I felt stressed, right? Stressed. I felt heavy concern. But I never once thought that

any other commander could do a better job than me, commanding my unit. And if you don't believe

that as a commander, they should find someone else. Period. So the corollary to that is you explained

what you like the best. What did you like the least? Well, that's a tough question. I do a brief,

and on that brief, there's 44 names on the slide. And so I put this brief up and say,

I do it for an impact purpose. And so I'll ask, I did this as a new commander. I put the list up,

and I said, does anyone know what this list is? And a bunch of jokes came out, right? Which is what

I expect from pilots. And they, you know, they, they, you know, I can't even, I won't even say the

jokes, right? And so then I looked at my, my audience, I said, they're all dead. Everyone

that lists is dead. And so the, the men and women that we've left behind is the worst part.

I got to a point as a young pilot where I refused to go to another memorial service. I wouldn't do

it. We'd lost so many friends. And this was in peace, peacetime. And so we miss half after this.

And you know, I think a one, I can't even think too hard about it. I'll choke me up. But yeah.

So the hardest part was, you know, the death of your friends and people under your command. I

understand that. You know, you talk about bravery and the training to not be a cobra pilot,

but to be a CH, CH 46 pilot. What, what is the difference between the two? I mean, one is for,

I think an airplane and one is a helicopter, I believe. But they're both helicopters. So basically,

the Marine Corps has four helicopters. We have cobras, Huey's, we have C, well, we had CH 46's. And

now we have V 22's and then CH 53's. And you know, there's some other variations thrown out there.

But that's typically what we fly. The 46 pilots. And we always joke about this, right? We are,

this is the candor. Cobra pilots are the best bar none. We are the best pilot. And any cobra pilot

will tell you that. But then the Huey pilots are going to tell you the same thing. And a gem

pilot is going to tell you the same thing, right? But and I put that funny part in the book. But

it was serious when I'm like, Cobra pilots are just better people because that's what we believe,

right? Well, the 46 pilots in the Army 860 pilots when we were in Iraq,

were the bravest men and women I've ever seen. Because when there's a marine bleeding,

or soldier bleeding, they will go through hell to get them out of that LZ. And I remember one

time I was escorted to 46 and we came in. It was a troops and contact point. It was called a

point of injury, Kazovak. So a marine had been shot and they needed to get them out. And so

Marine 46 comes in. We were asked to go on the two covers. We fly in. We don't see any bad,

we don't see any bad guys. The 46 is coming in. And the four air control and the radio starts

screaming from the wave off because the machine gun was open up on them. And we're helpless.

We don't know where it's coming from. We couldn't see the fire because if we saw it, we didn't just

kill them. We couldn't see it. So we're flying in. We're flying in. And the 46 pilot goes,

I'm coming to get him anyway. Just as calm as you can believe. So here's a entire crew who,

none of us know there's two covers in 146. None of us know where the fire is coming from.

We can't see it. We can't hear it. The ground guys are trying to suppress it. And there's 46 lands

in this minuscule landing zone pulls out the wounded guys. So we're diving our covers in front

of them to make sure that they're going to hopefully draw his fire. And then he flies out and we

take the marine home and save his life. And that's what those men and women did for 20 years in Iraq.

And believe me pilots, you know, pilots are very in my, my knowledge of all pilots that I know

very few, they are just fearless. And then we'll go in and then go in and they will save your

life just like we did this weekend, picking up this pilots. That's what we do.

You know, my husband, who passed away about 12 years ago, he was a Navy pilot.

Awesome. So he was a commander. And he was in in Guam, is where he was stationed. And his brother,

his younger brother was a coper pilot. So reading your story gave me a little insight into some

of the things that they weren't, they neither of them. Well, that's not true. My brother-in-law

was in those battles back in in Mogen, D. Shoo a long time ago. I mean, he was flying in there.

So, but just I just sort of related a little bit just in a small way when you were telling stories

about about, because Kevin used to talk with just such love about flying airplanes. He just loved

it so much. You know, once your pilot kind of always a pilot, well, I have a question about all

of those, that what you just said about the, how brave these people were. Where do these men

and women muster up that level of courage to do what they're designed to do in the battlefield?

It's a calling. You know, when you go, like when you go through flight school, and I talk a lot

about flight school in the book, when you go through flight school, it's a weed out process.

And that's why I go back to my, you know, initial comments, is you only need the best of the best.

I do not want to fly with an average pilot. I want to fly with a pilot that's, you know,

if there's three pilots, I want to fly with number one.

Right? And that's that, you know, if there's one slot, the number one pilot should get it.

And so it's, I don't know. I don't know if we're born with it. I don't know if you learn it.

I just, it's weird. That's the, you know, I hate to say it that way, but it's weird,

but I look back and I just, you know, if I'm having memories of all of these guys that I know

that I've flown with, right? Most of them are mad because the vast majority of the marine pilots,

because early on, you had to be a male to fly in the Marine Corps, at least combat aircraft, but

I just, I don't know, but they're unreal. I look at some of my friends, right? And you know,

when you, it's funny, when you sit five Cobra pilots in one room, there's five guys that think

they're the best Cobra pilot in the room, right? Absolutely. And that's how we do it. Yep.

Absolutely. You know, you've, you've led high stakes combat environments. How did those experiences

influence the lessons on resilience and determination that you really emphasize in your book,

Gunfighter's Rule? Well, one of the things I jump out is when the chapter about, about Gunfighter Village,

which was named after our mission that we had there, that was, you know, I, and I'm not bragging

about this, but in combat, the only time that I really ever felt scared for myself was when we

thought we got hit with a chem attack during the way of one. We thought a chem, you know, our

vehicle, it's a, it's a vehicle that alarms, alarm goes off and all right, it's called a FUCH

vehicle. We call it a different term, but we call it a negative term, but and I can't remember

right now what that even stands for, but it's a warning system and that vehicle went off, so we

thought we got a chem attack. And I really thought we got chem attacks, so we, we put on all of our

gear and we're waiting to see if one of us was going to die of chemical poisoning. That was the

only time I was personally afraid in all the combat I've been in, but the fear that I had was

in the stress that would be in my stomach was not being able to support the people on the ground.

And when the, when our Huey landed at Gunfighter Village and I had all my Marines, they were

trapped on the ground. That was the most gut-wrenching experience I ever felt and that fear was real,

but I was afraid for them. And we fought and, you know, we literally went through every bullet we had

in our aircraft to kill the enemy and we killed a lot of them just to get our guys back off the ground.

That was probably the most intense day of my life and I would say the, our team of, we had three

cobras that were flying that mission to one Huey the Huey was on the ground. That was probably the

best day of flying for all those pilots up to that point because it was, it was a no-fail mission

and we were able to bring all those folks home. Wow. That's, that's a lot. That really says a lot.

And it kind of just lends itself to how, you know, the people that are in the military and there

and troops together, how it really is, there's a bond there that goes beyond words. And I think

you describe it pretty well in your book Gunfighter's Rule. You know, I think this is a good place for

us to take a short break. We need to hold that thought right there, Colonel Dunn. And we are going

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right there. Sit tight for just a minute. We're going to be right back with retired career marine

and president of strategic resilience group, Colonel William Dunn, to talk more about gunfighters rule,

the life story of becoming a marine. We're also going to talk more about current events and

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Welcome back everyone. Welcome back to the 10 penny files. Today's conversation is with

retired marine and president of strategic resilience group Colonel William Dunn talking about his

book Gunfighters Rule which is an autobiography life story about becoming and being a career

marine and a story of resilience and determination. Let me tell you just a little bit more about

our today's guests. Colonel William Dunn began in the US Marine course in 1983 arising through the

ranks as a cobra helicopter pilot. He combined his military career with academic pursuits

earning a bachelor's degree in business administration and later an MBA from Boston University.

Over his 33 year military career, he completed deployments in Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen,

Libya and many other operational areas in support of the fifth and sixth fleets. After retiring,

Colonel Dunn assumed the role of president of the strategic strategic resilient group,

a team of business leaders, veteran military officers and experienced engineers working to create

strategies and operational planning for federal agencies within the Department of Defense.

His personal mission and life is deeply rooted in his extensive experiences and high stakes

environments. Colonel Dunn, thank you so much for writing this book and giving us a behind-the-scenes

look at what it's like to be a Marine and thanks for joining me here today on the show.

Well, yeah, Dr. Anthony, thanks so much for having me.

You know, on March the 12th of this year, March the 12th of the 20th of 2026, a US KC-135

refueling aircraft crashed in Western Iraq where all crew members died. For viewers who are not

familiar with what that aircraft is, what role does a KC-135 tanker play in military operations?

Well, typically it's going to be a refueling aircraft that will fill up a gas, it'll take off,

it'll go to an area and then the, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be jet fighters but

most likely jet fighters will come in and there'll be a, where we consider an arrow refueling track

and so it'll be up in the sky turning around at certain altitude and then the jets will come in

and refuel and that will stay on station for a period of time and then it will go back and,

you know, usually refuel and then come back out. In this case, there were two of them.

I don't know, they haven't said exactly what they were both doing, whether they were both refuelers,

sharing a track or whether one was refueling the other. I don't know what they were doing but it

appears that they somehow collided and there'll be a big investigation that's ongoing right now and

the good news is that one of the aircraft survived and so the, the in the investigation will have

great information because they'll be able to tell most likely what happened

and it seems they had a mid-air collision and then one of them did not survive and of course

all crew members were fatalities in that. You know, I've watched some videos on YouTube where they,

they show the refueling lock mechanism of how that, that just seems like almost a physical

impossibility to be able to up at that speed and everybody's going at that speed that the

things lock and then they can refuel. Tell us a little bit about that experience.

Well, as a co-pilot, we don't air refuel but I have been in the aircraft that have air refueled

and it does, it is amazing, it requires precision, it requires amazing flying,

but all our men and women that are flying these refuelable aircraft, they practice it a lot

and they're very good at it and they can come in and they plug it right in and fill up very quickly.

So it's, it is high risk, right? Because you're flying, you know, you're flying that close to another

airplane, you have to be able to do this in the daytime as well as in the night. And so it's not

an easy thing and I, you know, I give kudos to all the pilots that are able to do that and can do

that routinely because what, you know, when we get gas, we have to land and plug in a, you know,

plug in a fuel, a fuel dispenser right to the cover and it fills us up. But yeah, it's intense

and it requires a high level of skill to do that and to do it safely. And as you can see in some

instances and they're, this is not the first mishap we've had with refueling aircraft. We've had

some with the Marine Corps refueling jets and we've had some with other, you know, other services,

but it's, it's a, it's a risky business. You know, this one seemed to, they seem to come to

conclusions pretty quickly about what had happened. How long does it usually take before you, they

get clear answers when there's, are, are crashes like that? It all depends, right? It can be weeks,

it can be years. Wow. You know, sometimes, you know, so, you know, one of my friends crashed in a,

a KC 130, I'm sorry, a, a CH 53 and they never found the aircraft. They found pieces of it.

And he was the only one he survived the crash, but then he died. So the entire crew was, he was

the only body that was recovered in the aircraft sank too deep to go get and so they decided not

to get it. So it's very hard to say sometimes and sometimes it is a gas, but most of the time,

it is very clear, especially if they can get the wreckage back. It's very clear on what happened

to the aircraft. I crashed in a Cobra once out in 29 pumps, California and that investigation,

which cleared me, I wasn't 100% in agreement with the investigation as I talk about in the book.

But I think that took four to six months. And I honestly can't remember exactly how long it took,

but it really depends. I think six months to a year is pretty standard, but it could be quicker

and sometimes it could be a lot longer. You know, you talked, we talked briefly in the first half

of the show about the rescue mission that happened, you know, in recently in Iran when they were

recuperating that pilot. What do you have to say about that and about the most recent events that

are happening in Iran? Well, first off, every pilot, every pilot that goes down range, we have a bond

with each other that if you go down, we're coming to get you. Someone's coming to get you.

You have to survive. We call it surviving the merge, whether you get shot down or whether you

have to eject, or you know, you merge with the ground. If you're a helicopter pilot, you have to

maybe auto rotate. But once you're on the ground, if you survive, we're coming to get you alive,

hopefully. Most pilots in the Gulf War, some pilots were captured because they had no choice,

right? They were surrounded by Iraqis or they were wounded so bad, they couldn't get away.

But if you can get away, we're trained to get away. We're trained to get away from populations

and we're trained to hide until we can come get rescued. And we also believe that our brothers

and sisters are going to put their lives on the line that come in and get us because we'll do it

for them. So that mission was a beautiful success. It shows the power in mind of the United States

and it also shows the dedication that we have to each other when you go down behind enemy lines.

Think of many of our adversary countries. Do you think they would have spent that amount of

assets at time to go rescue one Russian pilot or one Chinese pilot? Most likely not.

But we will. And if one goes down today or one goes down tomorrow, we're coming to get you.

And the brave men and women of our military, or you know, we talked about being the brave folks,

you know, they're going, they have no idea what's waiting for them, right? They really don't.

And when you're doing these missions, a guy hops out of hops out behind of a rock with an AK-47

can become a problem for a pilot landing to pick up a survivor. So it's very dangerous,

very risky, but we know they're coming and they know if it's them, we're coming to get them.

What do you think is the, you know, we mentioned just briefly before we went live on the show here,

what was kind of going on in Iran? And you said, well, I think I understand it. So lighten

the rest of us that don't understand it. Well, Iran has killed Americans for 47 years.

And I talk about this in the book. The first, the first thing that happened, which was I ran

back to Hezbollah, killed 241 marine sailors and soldiers in the Beirut bombing in 1983.

That's how long they've been killing us. And Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years, they helped our

enemies get explosively formed penetrators to kill us. They launched attacks on US military

bases when the another administration was in power and we did nothing. Hundreds of them.

So this is not new and they promised if they got a nuclear weapon, they were going to use it.

And I think they were very close. So we had no choice but to go in and take that capability away.

We've always known it's always been planned that as soon as we start action in Iran,

they're going to shut the straits of one moves down. That's not a surprise.

We did a great job in my opinion, getting that opened up in a few short weeks. And obviously,

there's still risk and threat there. But what we did is we, we have destroyed Iran's war-making

infrastructure and war-making capability. Does that mean that they have some missiles left that

they could shoot? Absolutely. There's no doubt. But what they can't do anymore is hold court

in the Middle East and put their neighbors the US and Israel at risk at a high level.

Always a risk. There's always a, you know, we, you know, you have a sleeper cell, you can have an

individual that puts a bomb on their back and goes and kills some troops. But strategically,

their capability to wage war has been so diminished, it's probably no longer a factor.

That mission has been planned. I took a unit when I was the Mag 40 commander into the Middle East

in 2012 to prepare for a mission like this. So this, that's how long this has been going on.

And we've been planning, we've got contingency plans ready to go. And during this two

weeks ceasefire, our men and women are planning on targets in which targets are going to strike next

should they need to. So it had to be done. President Trump did it. Our men and women executed this thing

near flawlessly. And the fact that we have not lost more aircraft is amazing. And you know,

people will get upset that we lost one, which I do, right? We don't want to lose a single airplane.

But as I mentioned earlier, I stopped going to memorial services because too many of our

friends were killed. And that wasn't even in combat. So we've come a long way in aviation.

Aviation is still dangerous, but we're getting better at it. It's a non-stop mission to be safe

when you fly. And the fact that we've had so few casualties is a blessing.

Well, that sheds a little bit different light on things because there's a lot of controversy

about, you know, President Bush saying, I'm sorry, President Trump saying, you know, he's the

peace president and wanted to get out of forever wars and not go back into Iran or any of these

places. But I think a lot of followers were really discouraged by that of, you know, because they

said when we went into Iraq, it was going to be just a couple years and five billion dollars

and ended up to be 20-some years and five trillion dollars, you know. And so I think that Americans

are really concerned about that. Well, I am too, but here's the thing that, here's the thing that

we always have to remember. On day one, President Trump says, I don't want to go to war.

Does that mean if the enemy is building a nuclear weapon, we're not going to go to war?

Absolutely not. So we don't want to go to war. And having spent time in combat, I don't want

anyone to ever be in combat ever again. It's horrible, right? It is not, you know, when I went

into Iraq the first time during the day of one as a forward air controller, I was literally stressed

out that I was going to miss the war. I know that sounds crazy, right? We all train, we all train,

we want to be there with our brothers when we're fighting. That's just our mentality. So I was

stressed out that I was going to miss it. And I'm glad I went. I do not regret being there.

After being there and being in combat both on the ground and in the air, I would pray that we

never have to send a man or woman in a combat ever again. I know that's not realistic, unfortunately.

And sure enough, we've been doing it for the last six to eight weeks. But the enemy has a say

in everything we do. And so when we make a statement that we don't want a forever war, which I believe,

but the enemy doesn't action, they force our hand. And that's the thing that I would love for

people to understand is that we do not want forever wars. Hopefully this will be a eight to ten-week war.

But what we don't want to do is have a civilization destroyed in Israel or in the United States.

Buy a nuclear weapon and we do not want the world does not want any country to cross the nuclear

threshold in combat by lighting off a nuke somewhere because it's devastating. So I think the mission

was great. The one thing I wish, and I think I know why he did it because our enemy, our enemy

only understands strength. I did not like the comment about we're going to take out a civilization.

I would have used a different word. I know what I believe he meant is the civilization

of the regime. But that is not how sometimes a translation gets out to a public,

whether you are a U.S. public or an Iranian public. The Iranian people are not our enemy.

And President Trump has made that clear over and over again. I'm concerned that when he

used that civilization term, when that gets translated into force, that may make them feel that they

were at risk, which is what we don't want. Now, it worked. We're in a ceasefire right now.

So there'll be pundits that'll say, I can't believe you use that word. It's a terrible word.

They're using the thrown out the word war crimes, war crimes, genocide. By using that word,

maybe that was the only word that the Iranians were going to listen to and come to the table for

a peace talk. And if that's the case, then I don't care about the word. You know, we went in and

bombed Iran. I think it was last year. And they said, was it last year where they said, we've taken

out all of their nuclear capability. And they made a big deal about bombing that they did. But

apparently they didn't. And that's why we needed to do this again.

Well, and I'm sure there's some very highly classified information that they will not let out.

But imagine one scenario. Let's just imagine a scenario. We bombed their nuclear capability,

which we did. And I believe we were very successful at it. Did anything prevent Russia or China

for then giving them a boatload of depleted or a boatload of enriched uranium or something

to build a nuclear weapon? We don't know that. Right? So what we don't know is what, you know, we,

the government's going to let out so much information that will tell us why we went, you know,

why we went and started epic fury because we don't want them to have a nuclear weapon. But

what we don't know is was there a different tripwire that they're not telling us that maybe they had

a nuclear weapon sitting on a table somewhere or maybe they were a day away from a nuclear weapon

or a week away. We don't know that because the enemy always has to say we do an action. There's an

opposite, opposite equal reaction. We blow up the taunt's facility. They go build it somewhere else.

And what we don't know is what happened from the day that we dropped those bombs in last summer

until we started epic fury. We don't know 100% what happened and there's, there's classified

reasons why they may not be telling us. And which brings me up to just another point here is about

strategic resilience group. And I don't know how much of what you do is classified that you can

even talk about or but how, what kind of a role does that play in the planning and decision-making

of what's going on right now? Well, what are, what are men and women are doing to support the

government is mainly in data analytics and in information warfare. So we are supporting our

brothers and sisters all over the world doing information warfare. And that's probably,

that's probably all we'll say about that. They're supporting it. They're supporting them in

the US and overseas. We have folks in the Middle East right now that have been under siege at

some points in their, in their career. They're all safe. Thankfully, they all, they all made it

out and they all survived the merge. But we were, we were very worried about them early on. We just

talked to them all this week. So they're all doing okay. Some of them will be coming back to the

states in the near future. But that's what we do. In information warfare, it's just what it sounds

like, whether it's social media, supporting effects and efforts out in the Middle East or, or

other places. That's what our team does. It's just one of the many things that strategic resilience

group does. You know, I did a, I had a conversation recently with Casey Fleming who's from,

you know, intelligence and, you know, high up government sort of stuff. And he wrote a book called

The Red Sinami about the CCP takeover of America. And he said, how the, you know,

a sunsu in the art of war was the one who came up with the, the phrase death by a thousand cuts.

That's right. You felt that America has had about 950 cuts and that we are really, we have no idea

how the advancement of the CCP in this country has taken over most everything. Do you have any

opinion about that? I do. Americans need, need to open their eyes. It's not just the CCP. It's also

some of the Islamic revolution. We need to get back and remember, there's no shame in being an

American. We've got liberals that are trying to shame us into whether you are a white or black

or whatever race you happen to be today that they don't like. They want to make you ashamed to

be in who you are. And we need to get rid of all of that. We're Americans. And we need to remember

that because there are many countries and many actors out there that want to take what we have.

And we, you know, we have morons. And I'll say that we have morons in America that think,

if China comes and takes over America, that they're going to be our friends. And they're not.

Unfortunately, every country works and operates in their best interest. And it would be in some

country's best interest to be having their people run our Americans and have us work for them.

There are a lot of stupid Americans out there, unfortunately, that don't see it because they're

blinded by some of the internet and they're blinded by an ideology that they may have learned,

whether it's college or high school or wherever they learned it, because they're being manipulated.

They need to open their eyes.

Yeah, I think that's really true. And Casey talks about his book. He's got a 60-day plan in the back

about the community why that, you know, boots on the ground here in America about taking our

country back. And he said pretty much the same thing you said about Americans need to wake up

because somehow these the liberal people seem to think they think socialism and communism is

going to apply to everybody else but them. They're first amendment rights and their second amendment

rights and it's going to apply to everybody but them. And they're in for, they're sorely mistaken

for that. That's right. That's right. Well, we're down to the last couple of minutes of our

conversation here today. And this has just been delightful. I've really enjoyed this. Just like I

really enjoyed your book. And we gave kind of a high-level overview of what your book's about.

But why should people buy your book? Gunfighter's Rule. Read it and have it in their personal library.

Well, I think you hit it on the hit the nail in the head. It's about it's about resilience and

determination ultimately. That's the that's the theme of the book. You know, when I was growing up,

my father passed away or house brought up. I had to make it this season as at a young age.

Um, what kind of man I was going to become. And had I not joined the Marine Corps, I'm not sure

which kind of man I would have become. And so it talks a lot about that. And then it shows how hard it is.

You know, even though I love being a Marine, it was never easy. You know, we always say the only

easy day was yesterday. That's one of the seal models. But that's true. The only easy day is

yesterday and every day is a new challenge. And if you pick up this book, one, if you're at combat

veteran, I think it's going to stress you out a little bit, but maybe in a good way. One of my friends

said, I talk about the white shirt, man. And one of my friends called me up and he says, I have

some white shirt men in my life. And if you read the book, you'll understand that because the white

shirt man, I'm thinking about them right now. I can never get them out of my head. And so many

combat veterans will have a white shirt man that they will think about. And then if you are a

non-military person, what you're going to see is what it really takes to want to be a Marine,

but then to go out and fight and be in combat and live through it and then continue with your

family and put the pieces back together and then run your life because sometimes it's not easy.

And I think I think you'll enjoy it as I was saying earlier, my youngest daughter read it.

And she went from laughing to crying to laughing and then being appalled all at the same time.

So I think you'll, I think to read it will have a journey if they if they get a copy.

I agree with that totally. I think that's a great assessment because that really sums it up.

And it's written in such a way that you can really literally feel yourself walking through the

things that you experienced with some of the tensions inside of your commanders and you know,

the people that you worked with and the battlefield scenes and stuff like that. So you know,

Colonel Don, thank you so much for writing it and sharing it because it really is a behind-the-scenes

thing for civilians to really understand. And I agree with you with what you said that if you

read this book and you have been a Marine or you've been in one of the branches of the military,

it's really going to resonate with you. It's going to show a lot of, you know, tell the world what

your experience has been that maybe other people haven't been able to put that into words.

So thank you so much for sharing that with us. Thank you for sharing your insights about

the government and current events. Thank you for being with us here today. And for everybody else,

thank you for joining us. I hope you really enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Be sure

you like it and share it on all of our different social media platforms and go pick up a copy of

this book and you could get it at our bookstore, which is bookstore.dr10pony.com, bookstore.dr10pony.com,

where we put all of our authors books in there just to make it convenient for you. So with that,

I want to close out with one of my favorite verses from the Bible I close all of my podcasts with

whether they are live or pre-recorded, which is Romans 12 12 rejoice in hope, be patient and

trouble and be persistent in prayer. God's with you all the time. He promised he will never leave

you in order for sake you and he's a man of his word. So we'll see you again here tomorrow right here

at the 10 penny files at 3 p.m. Eastern or the next time. Thank you so much for being here. Thank

you. Have a great day, everybody. Goodbye and God bless.