Has Zayne Parekh Truly Arrived?

0:00The double has the shot to win it all here. He scores, double scores. Well, let's see that. Off the glass. Let's put it to look. I've given it a little help circle. Happy to be out of shock. See, maybe I'll look in with Green Lady by another chance. Hey, score! The players win it, ya, baby! They scored! And the seed of red here... Flamestock starts now on sports night. at 960 the fan. Brought to you by Mr. Luke plus tires. Here's Pat Steinberg and Logan Gordon. Hey, gas prices are nuts. Mr. Lou plus tires is here to help save $25 on an oil change and another $25 on a Mr. Lou plus tires service package open eight till eight seven days a week. Rediscover Mr. Lou plus tires. Ready when you are. It is Thursday, April 30 at the final day of April. And we are underway this hour on flames talk after a brief few

1:01day hiatus. We are back at Steinberg and Logan Gordon from our downtown studio on this Thursday. Hi, logo. You're back. We're back. We're ready to rock and roll on Apple Spotify, Amazon, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for being along with us. Welcome to the sports drive. Brought to you by smart multifamily by Calgary lock and safe from access control and cameras to smart sweets thermostats and locks. Everything runs on one seamless platform complexity out simplicity. And well, it's crazy to say logo, but we are sitting here on this Thursday. Now exactly two weeks removed from the end of the season for the Calgary plan. I don't know why that feels like a short period of time. It feels like it's been way longer since the season came to an end. But here we are. April 30. It's Calgary's last game was on April 16th that win over the LA Kings. That's the last time the flames played. It's been two weeks. So let me paint you a picture and let me take you back to where we were two weeks ago. Because I think the

2:05the overwhelming topic coming out of the season and going down the stretch in the final few weeks was the play of Zane Perrek. And that's who we're going to focus on for a good chunk of this hour on the program. And rightfully so he was one of the big topics coming down the stretch because he was a really good player for the flames. He was seemingly taking steps and noticeable steps week over week. It felt like he was making more of an impact each and every night. And I know for me, I'm feeling so good about the way things are pointed for Zane coming out of this season. And I'm not necessarily sure. I saw that coming. Had you talked to me in December or January, I'm not sure that I could have said on April 30th that you and I would be sitting here talking like that. Like, look, I think we're talking about a guy who's knocking on the door to being the team's most exciting player next year. And I think we're talking about a guy who is knocking on the

3:06door to to be in a star in this league. I really do. And I don't think I don't think we need to be talking about this necessarily long and drawn out process to get there. The rapid steps that Zane took from after the Olympic break to the end of the season. Like I go into next year's training camp feeling like, yeah, this, this is going to be one of the best players on the team because I'll be perfectly honest with you. I thought he was one of the best players on the team in the final few weeks of the season. Yeah, it's interesting because there was a lot of debate. At a certain point to the season, and look far enough, I think it was fair to get into this conversation about could this still be a success for Zane Perack, right? With the limited amount of games that he was going to have is in front of him because of the injuries, because of the Olympic break, because of everything else. Could you could you call out a success for Zane Perack when it's all said and done? And I think the unequivocal answer to that now has turned into

4:12yes. And that's a really good thing for the Calgary Flames. It shows you, I think why Zane Perack and others, I don't think it's just a Zane thing, but I think others that are in that kind of prospect here, Pat, get put in that space because they do have the ability to adapt and Craig Conroy and hockey management and Calgary talk about hockey IQ and how important that is to a player in the Flames system. And that's how you can make those rapid steps as a player in terms of progressing. So yeah, I think after everything was said and done, was it ideal for Zane Perack to go down exactly how we had all planned it out last September? No, but a lot of good things happened and to be able to sit here like you said. And of April beginning of May and go, yeah, I think Zane Perack is going to be the biggest storyline and maybe one of the most important players for the team next year. That tells me it was a success. Text lines open at 9.69.60. This

5:14was Zane just before the end of the season. So he did not do locker clean out day. They kind of did his locker clean out day on one of the final games of the season. Kind of did his season wrap and here's just a little bit from Zane himself on on how he saw the season going and especially saw things going down the stretch. Obviously, I wanted to come in at the start of the season, start the season and be successful right away and not have to go through that struggle that I did for the first half. But those growing pains are good and I'm actually really happy with how the season went up to this point and how I'm playing now. What do you think has changed? Is it something you're not thinking out there anymore? You're just reacting? Yeah, I think a big things confidence. I think starting the season, I was second guest when I saw a lot. I think I've always happened since the start. It just took a while for me to get adjusted to the pace and my decision making had to get a little bit quicker, but I feel great.

6:19I feel confident and, you know, Husk has obviously been a huge tool for me in that area and all of our player development staff and Kali and all those guys' seeds has been great and they just pushed me in the right direction every day. So that was Zane a little bit on his season and the growth that he showed and talked about how like he saw a lot of growth too and was pretty honest. Like was not up to pace early on and had to make a lot of adjustments, but you know, that's that's what kind of goes into being a young player in this league. Sometimes like if you're Connor McDavid or Nathan McKinnon or somebody like that, okay, that's one thing like the pace maybe isn't as much of an adjustment, but if you're not one of those players and those guys come around like once every eight to 10 years, yeah, it takes a little bit of takes a little bit of an adjustment, but you know, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, but you know, even you could see it from when the Olympic break ended to when the

7:21season ended in that month and a half or whatever it was, I mean, even the way that he was avoiding hits and not putting himself in difficult situations and not being as big a target because he learned about the pace, he learned about where to position himself and like for those things to happen as rapidly as they did. Like for me, it comes down to one thing only and you mentioned it, it comes down to how how well and how high level he understands the game, right? Oh, and you know, forget what would we think about a successful season, just to hear Zane sit here and say, yeah, wasn't ideal how the season started for me and the way that it went, but to feel like he had taken those steps and gotten that confidence back, that says everything to me about the season for Zane Perack and that if you wanted to label it one way or another or you wanted to use it as how we're going to, you know, evaluate him starting next season and heading into training camp, that's that's a huge thing to hear from that guy because it would have been really easy to have

8:25I think just park this season and go, okay, well, I gotta gotta get back at next year, right? Next year is when I'm going to have a chance to reset this thing and start feeling good about it, but he didn't with whatever the the total was, you know, those two games before the Olympic break after his Wrangler's recall and then afterwards he just took it and ran with it and turned it into a success because like you said, he did the right things. Well, and I think it's also really important to, you know, get some perspective from teammates and and this was Zach White Cloud on Locker clean out day as well talking about the growth that he saw in Zane Perack and hey, here's here's a teammate and Stanley Cup winner and a guy who's had to scratch and claw and work his way up and I thought Zach White Cloud added some really good perspective as well. To speak more on a two ever since I got here and all you hear about outside of the ring is his development and is he producing points and all this stuff and, you know, that's it's hard as a young guy in this league, especially as a defenseman. I'm not saying forwards easier,

9:27goalies easier, that stuff fits position wise, but learning how to play defense in this leagues really hard. You got to go up against guys like him on a nightly basis and play. You know, Zane's going to have to play at some point 20 to 25 minutes a night against the best lines and I think over this past couple of games he's showing that he can handle that and he's done a good job defending which I think a lot of people need to understand how hard that is as a 20-year-old offensive defenseman is that he's defending really well. He's come on on the right side of the matchups and he's going against guys like McKinnon closing gaps, having good sticks, boxing out, making plays out of the D zone, hard plays, Chris plays, and he's come a long way. And you can talk about the offensive side. You saw that last night. That's who he is. That's Zane Breck, but the player that he's going to be is the guy that can defend in all situations for 25 minutes a night. And I think you're kind of getting glimpses of that now. And once he gets confident in those scenarios where he's going to make mistakes. But that was the same process

10:28that I had to go through and every demon has to go through is to learn you're going to get burned once or twice but you have to get burned in order to understand that those situations come up and how to deal with them. He's going to be a really good player for a long time. It's cool being able to play with them too. That's some pretty high praise from Zach White Cloud and just about all the different areas that we saw growth in. And even look, and I think part of it was where they were in the season part of it was they were shutting down everybody because Netsov and Hanley and so on and so forth. Like lots of guys weren't playing down the stretch. That's what happens in a year where you're clearly going to miss the playoffs. But you know, to hear Zach White Cloud say that and talk about all of the areas that he progressed to see how Ryan Husker used him and how the shackles came off a little bit down the stretch. They weren't they weren't like Trent Cullen and Ryan Husker weren't putting him in spots that were really sheltered. They were using him and starting him in the defense of zone a whole lot more. And you know, as Zach said,

11:29they played together. He and White Cloud played on the top pairing in the final few games of the year with with Zane playing on his left side. That's where he scored that highlight real goal. First asked Zach about that was on our broadcast. Yeah. And the first intermission after their first game together and Derek had locker cleaner to ask them to kind of repeat what he said because he was, I asked him about, you know, hey, man, it's fun playing with Zane. He makes all these great plays and he was like, yeah, watch how he's defending. Like watch what he does without the puck now and all this other stuff. And I kind of looked over at Maddie who was up with me because you were on the TV broadcast that came over and was like, that's a pretty good, pretty high praise from from Zach White Cloud. And he was on his offside like you mentioned. Yeah. Something earlier on the year, we would have been like, oh, it's a bit of a challenge. Remember when he played his offside in the preseason? It was a disaster. Yep. So yeah, I mean, I think we all know how highly thought of Zach White Cloud is and how highly thought of his game is for him to go out of his way and, you know, reinforce what we were all

12:31seeing with our eyes is a good sign as any in my books. Well, and again, like had you told me, this is going to be the conversation that we were going to have. If you said, well, you look, he's barely playing here in October and, you know, he's going to get hurt and miss a bunch of time and they're going to have to send him to world juniors. They're going to have to send him to the American League. Like, had you told me all told me this is with the conversation, we're going to be having now when all those things were happening earlier in the year, I, you know, I don't know if I would have said there's zero chance, but I probably wouldn't have shaded my, my chips over to that side of the table. One that is only going to play 37 games. Yeah. Like, it just, I don't know if I would have seen this conversation ultimately being the way that it went and this being the most likely outcome because as you said, it could have been very easy for everybody involved for the team, for the player, for them to say, hey, this, this is not like this is just not the year. It's going to be tough and we'll try to make the very

13:35best out of it. But, you know what, it's probably going to go down as a last year, but, you know, credit to the team for sticking with their plan, which we'll get to in a second. But more importantly, credit to the player for, for not letting that happen. Like, Zayn Perrek didn't allow this to be a lost season. And when the opportunity presented itself for him to be a regular in the lineup, he took the bull by the horns and, and really did run with it. And as they started to shut down players, he got more opportunity. And as he continued to progress, he got more opportunity. And it turned into power play one time after Mackenzie Weger and Rasmus Anderson were traded. And, you know, then it turned into top four minutes. And then as we mentioned by the end of the year, he was playing top pairing minutes. And, and that was, yeah, the coaches need to make those decisions and, and the deployment has to be there. But none of those things happen if Zayn Perrek doesn't go out and do the work and stick with it and dedicate himself to doing all that he can in season to making things better. And, and to continuing to stick with it mentally, because

14:38that could not have been easy. There's plenty of talk on the outside. There was the whole robots thing at the world, juniors. There was the, the plenty. Oh, he's a bust. And there's the, he's not going to be in any cell or he doesn't belong here. All of those times, this is a mistake. Like those things were floating around. And I can say very definitively that was not coming from this show. But those things were out there. And Zayn is like, as sharp as you're going to find, he hears everything. He reads everything. He watched like this guy is as in tune a hockey player as I've been around on, especially at the ages of 19 and 20. And, and to hear those things, yeah, could not have been easy. And yet stuck with it, didn't let it get to him. And, and I think that a pretty good job of starting to prove some people wrong is as the year went along. And, and so I really think the guy who's most responsible for all of this is, is the guy we're in number 19. Yeah. And now it's, you know, watching flourish with all the confidence that we,

15:41we talked to that you heard from Zach White Cloud, you know, that was just in the missing part of his game where it goes from here. It's got to be wildly exciting because he took some really big steps and yeah, it wasn't perfect. But we all have reason to believe it's on the upswing. And if that's what this guy looks like after less than 40 games in the national hockey league and how it was so messy at times and it was so unideal at times, you know, you start to think what would it look like if it was ideal circumstances, what would it look like if he does get off to a hot start to a season. And that's what gets you excited. That's what should get you excited. And there was so much debate about the usage and like there was, like he was throughout the season, that had to be one of the biggest topics all year long was the usage of Zayn Perraq, how he should be used, where he should be used, should he be in the AHL? It should he go back to junior, like that conversation was being had in some iteration essentially all year long, right? Like

16:46there is early on, like should he be playing every night and or every didn't play on opening night and Edmonton and all those types of things. And then there was, he didn't play into the home opener again, St. Louis in game three. There was the talk about, you know, like should they send them back to junior? And I know there was even light internal discussions about that. I know that the the right decision ended up winning out. And I know that, you know, Craig Conroy was very adamant that junior hockey would not be the right place for him this year. But you know, I think those conversations were the very least broached at different levels or at different times. There was, you know, should he go to the world juniors or not? Should they use the conditioning loan that they had available to them or not? And then, and then, you know, even at the end of the year, remember the two or three times they load managed them and they sat them out strategically. Remember the out the outcry and the backlash on social media to that, even though there was really good science that they played into it. Like it was a topic all year long. And so I wanted to

17:52play this. This was when Ryan Husker sat down with you and I in the hot stove lounge little less than two weeks ago on locker clean out day. And he had brought up Zane for rack on his own and some of the strides that he had taken. And so I followed up on it. I thought it was a really interesting response from Ryan Husker about all of it. This was the head coach a couple of weeks ago in the hot stove lounge. Can you talk about Zane? And the hiccups early on. Like if you go back to October, November, would as a coach, would you have seen what maybe what we've seen the last six weeks coming like we're were you confident that the plan that was in place and and all the discussions that were happening organizationally would have led to like it's been a it's been a pretty rapid progression the last six weeks. So it has. But I look at the progression because of I think what the team or the decisions the team made about how we were going to progress them. So Craig's plan on you know working with Don and our management group to allow him to go to the world juniors was

18:53I think step number one. Yeah. Um step number two was when he came back to us to put him in against men in the American League. And yes, it was only for two weeks. His first game there if you guys remember I don't know if you guys were out that game. He was terrible. Yeah. Like terrible. And as games went on down there, you're like, Oh, there he is. There's a guy who watched in the world juniors playing against his peers. So it was part of getting his confidence back. And then he played those first two games for us. I'm like, Holy smokes. Here he is. And then the second two games after those two, I was like, Holy smokes. But all of that is learning process or whatever you want to call it for him. And I think one of the positives things or great things about Zane is he took it all in stride. Like this is how I need to get better. I'm willing to do it. If he wasn't willing to do it, he wouldn't have seen the significant changes that he did. So the player deserves a ton of credit in that as well. So I think the the landscape or the plan that Craig created for, you know, how we were going to handle him moving forward and down the

19:56road and as well as Zane's willingness to be a part of what we were trying to get him to do allowed him to be the player. We saw the last six, eight weeks of calling that. That's head coach Ryan Husker. And you know, I just thought that was a really important clip to play. And you know, that, that they really feel that the steps that he took were in part because of the plan they put in place. And a plan that was not rigid, right? Like it was a plan that they, they had in place, but it was continually evolving. Like when they started the year, the hope was he wouldn't go to world juniors. But then the year went the way it did. He wasn't playing every night. There was some load management going on through October, November. Then he takes that hit from Nick Felino and he's out for a good stretch of time. And then it became obvious. Okay. Well, you know, as much as we would have loved to stay and have him stay in the NHL, it's very clear that world juniors would be a great way for him to go and ramp up the confidence again and come back. Well, he gets banged up at the world juniors. Winds of bronze is a huge part of it sets a

20:58record as a Canadian defenseman and then comes back. He's a little banged up. So he sits. They use the loophole with him not playing for five games. And then they send it to the American like you heard it there. You were there for the game. Really rough start in the American league. And then in the next three games took some big steps. And then we all remember it came back played that game against Toronto at the dome. And he was like, you're like, okay, we'll hold on a second. This is the best we've seen for a look. I remember you played over 20 minutes of that night. I believe he did. And I remember talking to Mackenzie Weger in that game post game. And they lost the game to Toronto. But I remember asking Weger about it and said, like, because he played a decent chunk in that game with with Perrack. And he said, what do you think is he's like, that's a difference in Perrack. Like that's a different guy that we've seen. And I remember him saying it. And it was like, okay. So it's not just us on the outside. It's it's the people who know better who are right there with them. And so and then again, like, they had the load management plan

22:02after the Olympic break. And they they stuck with it early on. And then Zane changed it. Like credit to Zane Perrack, the reason why they wanted to have that load management plan in place was because they felt he was taking too many hits, too much contact. And and because he was putting himself in vulnerable spots, the load on on his slider frame at this stage, you know, that they felt like that continue to open himself up for injuries. So by, you know, monitoring the stress on the body, the way that they do. And you know, the the strength and performance guys at the flames had a real good formula for it. But they're like, okay, maybe the wearin tears a little bit too much. Let's sit him here, let him recover. And it kind of resets the clock in a lot of ways. And so they did that a few times. But as he continued to play game, it was only ever one game. He only ever sat one game, which was always part of the plan. But then things changed because Zane changed it because all of a sudden, he wasn't taking that same type of contact. He was putting himself in better spots. Like, look, I'm not trying to

23:03compare Zane to Kale McCarr. But Kale McCarr is not a big burly dude, right? Like we're not talking about a guy that is is built to take nothing but physical punishment. But because he skates so damn well and he's so smart and he puts himself in the puts himself in the right spots all the time. Kale McCarr takes so much less contact than most guys and his position do. And that's what we started seeing from Zane. We heard most often compared to Zane Evan Bouchard. Eric Carlson or Eric Carlson. Both both of them are great examples. Not big guys. Eric Carlson's never been a big guy. But none of those guys didn't take it because they because they have the pocket. They're elusive and they are so smart. They don't put themselves in those types of spots. And it just takes a little bit of time to figure it out. And I know there was lots of pushback about the management aspect of it. And we both saw that if he changes the plan, they'll roll with it.

24:04Well, and the thing is about that too, Pat, is the rosters changed, right? The opportunity for him changed. And I think I understood it from the fact of this guy was banged up twice this season already. A third injury would have just put this in a really bad spot. I think he even was banged up a couple of times down the stretch, at least once, where at least one of the games was load management, plus he was a little banged up. Right. So he got hurt early in the season on the Felino hit. He got banged up at world juniors. The last thing that he needed or the team needed was to go down that path again. At some point where an injury caused him to miss games. That would have really put a sour note on the season. And partially because of the plan that they put out there, as you mentioned, and partially because Zane understood how his game needed to evolve, but didn't become an issue down the stretch because something we didn't have to talk about. He was watching Tate like you talked to Trent Cullen Ryan Husker about he was watching tape. He was

25:08learning. He was asking questions. He was he was whether it was white cloud or before the Weger was traded. It was McKenzie Weger or like whoever it was, he was he was really working on improving and adapting and developing his own game the best way he could. And that's why I say like I think I think what we saw from Perrek is one of the most exciting developments I can remember because so much of what happened down the stretch was his own doing and was him making sure this stuff happened. Like that's the mark of a star player is that it you would and that's I remember having a conversation with Ray Edwards at WinSport once and it was coming off his young stars classic debut. So would have been just months after he was drafted in this fall of 2024. And I remember like it was a rough start to the young stars classically. He had an awful first game. He had a giveaway and over time that led to a game winner, so on and so forth. And I remember he played all three games in Penticton that year. And by the third game, you're like, okay, okay, that's

26:13that's some pretty impressive adaptation. He's me and I remember so then we're at training camp and I was talking to Ray Edwards and Ray basically said like I said like how will that improve me? He's like that's what Zane is. That's who Zane is. Like he adapts and improves so rapidly. It's why we're so excited about him. And yeah, maybe it was a little bit less rapid at the NHL level because it's the NHL, but he still did it. And I think that's just such an underlining of the caliber player that the flames have on their hands. I really feel like I've been over the moon about like I just I love his demeanor. I love his confidence. I love that he's unapologetically himself. Like I love all those things about Zane Perrek. But I'm just so much more impressed that the things that we've been told about him, we're now seeing in the best league in the world. And we're seeing a guy who can not just hack it, but who is thriving in the best league in the world. Like that goal that he scored in game 82. Yeah, it's game 82 blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's still an NHL team

27:18he's playing against. And that's a highlight real goal. And no one each other regardless of the time of the year wants to get their ankles broken by a kid on the rush. Yeah. That doesn't Oh, well, we're out of it. So you can go ahead and put me on every highlight real for the next six months. No, that doesn't, that doesn't happen that way. It's because Zane has that ability to do that to you. And it, yeah, it's, and it said it's a cool position too for the flames where I'll do respect to the last while. You know, to have somebody of his caliber potentially running a power play is so exciting. It's, there's a lot to be happy about. And it's got to continue. And it's got to take those next steps. But I mean, if you want to talk about hardships and putting in the work to get better, which is what we talk about so much for young players at this stage in their career path, you can't be upset with that heading into the off season for Zane Perrek and worry that he's not going to do the right things

28:18to get there because he showed in season he is. I just think the rapid progression we saw. I don't know why I said that word that way, but the rapid progression that we saw down the stretch at the NHL level against good NHL players, just really, really impressive. And so much credit goes to Zane for being able to make that happen. And so it leads before we hit the text line at 9.69.60, this leads to kind of the last talking point. And then it's okay. What should we be expecting realistically when Calgary reconvenes in September for training camp? Remember, only four pre-season games for the coming season. They're starting the regular season in late September. So it's going to be a little bit different in terms of a training camp. But what are what are expectations? What are fair realistic expectations? And for me, it's like he looks like the same guy in training camp as he did down the stretch. He's confident to do the things with his feet and with the puck on his stick. He's not being burned defensively on a regular basis. Yeah, there's still hiccups here

29:23and there. And you live with those. But like, and if that's the case, which I think is a very realistic expectation. Like, I think we're talking about a guy who from the get go is one of the most exciting players on the team right from day one. And like, I don't think putting up some decent numbers as a sophomore in the NHL is all that out of the question at all. Like, again, I'm not talking about Evan Bouchard 80 points or anything like that, but could could Zane be a guy that you're like putting up, you know, rasp his Anderson like numbers in the not so distant future with a whole lot more room to grow. Yeah, I don't think that's out of the like, by the way, I'm not saying Anderson's the ceiling. I'm just saying like starting next season. He's a crazy thing that we could be talking about 30 to 40 points out of a guy like Perrek being power playing one, all those types of things. I'm not trying to ceiling him out at all. I'm just saying like, if he's there next year, that's a pretty exciting

30:24jump with so much more room to grow. Yeah. And look, from a points perspective, that was one of the things that we talked about last year, you know, for him as to, okay, now that he's feeling confident and he's looking more like himself, the point started to come, the goal started to come. Once that, if that baseline is established and I have no reason to think that it won't be with, you know, similar players, similar styles, all the experience he gained this year. If he continues at a pace that he was at close to the end of last season, yeah, I don't know why you wouldn't have a pretty good feeling that there's going to be a season that looks like that offensively. And you never know. That's the one thing that I would always say about guys like, like, Perrek, we don't know what it looks like when he goes on a heater yet or how often that can happen, right? So team around you scores a little bit more full season of power play, all those sort of things I think talk about when you're saying, where's that ceiling going to go?

31:24That's where that comes in for me. Bouchard, by the way, in his first after, you know, kind of stunted, there was some COVID-19 pandemic in there as well. I played in Sweden because of it, but like, finally, actually, I didn't know that played 23 games in Sweden during that COVID year. I actually did not know that because remember the NHL didn't start till January, but Sweden was playing in the fall that the prior like in 2020. So he did spend a little before coming over the Oethers, but after a kind of a stunted start, not all that dissimilar to the stunted nature of zane this year, when he finally hit his first full season, the year the flames and oethers met in the playoffs, 43 points in 81 games for Evan Bouchard. Like if we're talking about somewhere in that range, 35 points, 40 points for zane. And again, like, I'm not saying if he doesn't get there, it'll be a failure. I'm just saying, like, I don't sit here and I'm usually pretty, I'm usually pretty conservative when it comes to projections like this. But like, I don't think

32:26that's out of the question that we're talking about a guy who's contributing offensively because he's he's going to be the power play one quarterback from night one. Really no one that has the same skill set that he has on the blue line. Like, look, even if we go and Anderson, we're still here. Zane Perak should be the power saying that when they were here. Yeah, I thought he should have been on power play one when they were here. I still thought he was a better offensive option on power play than either of those guys and I stand by that. We'll read you some texts in a second, but I wanted to play this. Eric Carlson, 45 points in 75 games. It is like full first full NHL season when you play any age. Yeah. Wouldn't be a bad number. So what I was playing that clip from Zach White Cloud. Red is at end that I wanted to save this. So he was up there on locker clean out day with Jonathan Hubert and and so White Cloud gave us a 90 second clip on all the improvements that Zane made. And then he finished and Hubert. Oh, clearly joking, but he gave White Cloud a

33:27bit of a hard time. That's good. It's my team. That's enough. Yeah. I think you've done it. Well, that was pretty funny. This act took it all year for being so talkative. He did. I remember at one point, I can't remember. I think they came back from Roger. He goes, I went too long last time I was with you guys. So let's get this over one time one time. There was a game day scrum. And I asked two questions and he get each answer was like minute to 90 seconds. And I think it was Lawrence who tried to ask a third question and Kelsey said, no, no, we got to go. Next guy is ready. And so and so Zach goes, I'm really sorry. I taught too much. I'm so sorry. Like I was like, no, don't apologize for that. Even at the poker tournament, we're trying to keep guys like fairly short so that you go back to their game like 29 minutes. Zach, we've asked you like four questions. I don't know what you want to say. He's like, I'll just keep going. I'm like, no, go enjoy. Never I asked, I asked Zach about, you know, being at Dirk's Bentley spot and in

34:30Nashville with the Stanley Cubbies. Oh, yeah, that was a great night. Anyway, that and then he went somehow turned it into how he wanted that to like, he barely talked about that instead, talked about like, that's the culture we want to build in Calgary. I'm like, damn, this guy's got the right head on his shoulders. I'm being such a nice human being. Uh, text line 960 960, uh, Wedley says, I had a perfect view of that Zangle versus L.A. and my seats. I'm not worried. I can live with the mistakes for that creativity. That's from Wedley and Bridalwood. Honestly, like the mistakes were so much so much less going down the stretch too. Who cares? Everybody makes mistakes. Every single veteran, every single like outside of Crosby, who doesn't make mistakes in this league. And I'm not trying to take a pot shot, but like Mackenzie Wieger almost led to an overtime winning goal last night. Yeah. And then the overtime winner was scored like the very next, the very next for a without Wieger on the ice. So he survived. But, um, but like, it happens.

35:33Everybody makes mistakes. Exactly. Uh, this reads between Zane, Hunter, Dustin and Motve, so that he's in Perac, Hunter, Brestevich, Dustin Wolfe and Motve grid. And next season, we'll have plenty to get excited about for the future of the flames. Grant from BC says, my thoughts were how much of a difference the games to the end of the year looked is skating has improved significantly. His edgework has improved significantly since the beginning of the season. That's improved his pace and ability, not to mention we saw him throwing the body and using his body to pin guys as well as crazy good stick check improvements. All seems to be part of his skating improvements. And I do know that he worked really, really hard with Danielle Fujita. They're skating coach. The best in the business and, um, and, and that was a big part of it as well. And I know, I even, I even talked to DF a few times throughout the year and knew how proud she was of Zane for the strides that he took. And, um, like you, it's not a lot of guys that, well, there's like no guys that work with Danielle that like don't take massive strides in their skating. Um, and like,

36:37noticeable strides in their skating. Here's Murray in the ranch lands on this show. Eric Francis early in the season said this season was basically about Zane. I agree. I'm happy with how he played down the stretch. However, I hope he's a little less under the microscope next season because there's still going to be a lot of ups and downs. Problem is, he's still going to be under the microscope. Now if Gavin McKenna is a member of the Calgary flames, he'll probably be more. Um, Gavin and Zane next year, but and Gavin would be a little more under the microscope, I would think. But Porek is never not going to be in the spotlight here. He's too good a player. He's too engaging a personality. Um, as of right now, he's by far the like highest drafted guy they have for sure in the system that's making an impact. Um, this from Greg and varsity, uh, Hayeskin and Dallas is also good at beating body checks in the defensive zone 100 percent. Bigger frame, but he still doesn't take a lot of abuse. And what he does, he's pretty good at

37:37shaking it off. I remember that series in in 2021, sorry, 2022 and Darryl Satter had the flames targeting him at four and three. Oh, yeah. Klingberg and Hayeskin and and I just remember Klingberg was didn't handle it very well. Well, and him and Kitschock just had this weird. That was very odd too. Matthew, please play hockey. They, they please stop trying to fight John Klingberg every turn. They won five games that year in spite of number, the old number 19, like Matthew got so engaged with, like, and show himself, could not help himself. But Hayeskin and was a dynamo in that series. Anyway, they won. That's the only thing that matters. By the way, Carlson listed them hockey DB at six foot 185 pounds. Yeah. That's not a big man. Uh, this reads 70 games and 30 points are what I'm expecting from Zane, but the team being what it is, offense and points will be hard to come by. And if that ends up being where it goes, that that would be, I think, a really successful year. Adam and Royal Oak is Zane putting on muscle

38:39and weight as important now as it was earlier. Seems like him getting hit wasn't as much of an issue down the stretch as it was early on. It's fair question, but I still think it is a big part of it. He does still need to bulk up the frame a little bit, not to the point like we don't need to turn, like, we don't need him to go from looking like Zane per wreck to looking like Mike Trout, but like, like, just a little bit of added strength isn't even so much the size and bulk. It's just the strength. And because like, when you're a, when you're a slider frame, like, again, Kayle McCar is a strong dude. He's not a bulky dude, but it's not like he just finishes the season and doesn't work out. But it's, it's all, like, again, Rick Davis is the, the program and Zane's still here. Last I believe Zane Per wreck is still in the city and will be for a few more weeks as he continues starting his off season program. But yeah, I just, it's still important to add that strength. Even if he did do a better job in mitigating

39:39those types of things as the year went along, right? Yeah. And the best way I can tell you is, like, being around the locker room, you get to see guys out of their pads and you get a good idea of what the frames are like. Like Matt Vagridden had a bigger frame than Zane Per wrecked it, right? He had, he's gone a little bit ahead physically like that. Yeah. You'd like him to catch up and be at that kind of level, right? It's not to take away from what he's doing, but he still needs to fill us 20 years old. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Um, text line 9 69 60, uh, always open, always available to you. He's Logan Gordon. My name is Pad Steinberg. Uh, we're underway on the program on this Thursday. Good to be back after a little hiatus. Um, hey, uh, we announced this a little earlier this week and looking forward to this. How about the Roundup Music Fest coming to Calgary this stampede and Wednesday Thursday of stampede at Princess Island Park, uh, great lineup for the Roundup Music Fest. Uh,

40:40there's going to be an awesome two-day event. Um, you've got some great headliners. It's an awesome, awesome event like whether you're going corporate, whether you're going VIP, whether you're going general admission, uh, great experience, great bands, uh, the fine folks at Concord going to be doing all the catering at Princess Island Park. So the food's going to be out of this world. The Roundup Music Fest goes Wednesday, July 8th and Thursday, July 9th at Princess Island Park for day one, the Wednesday. You've got Billy Idol, David Leroth, Sloan and Tuk performing and then day two on the Thursday. It's fostered the people group love, the new pornographers and the Royal Foundry. It is the Roundup Music Fest and it was announced earlier this week. Tickets are on sale Friday. So tickets on sale this Friday, they go on sale at 10 a.m. Friday, May 1st at ticketmaster.ca. Flamestock is live on Calgary's hockey station sports net 960, the fan.

41:42Flamestock's brought to you by Mr. Loub plus tires gas prices are nuts. Mr. Loub plus tires is here to help save $25 on an oil change and another $25 on a Mr. Loub plus tires service package open eight till eight seven days a week. Rediscover Mr. Loub plus tires ready when you are. It's Steinberg and Logan along with you in just minutes. We will hear from our goaltending expert, Kevin Woodley will join us as he does each and every week here on Flamestock on a Wednesday. So we will do that coming up in just a few minutes. But logo lots of talk about Zane Perrack. That was the dominant topic on the program as it should be in good on Zane for what he did down the stretch. But interesting interesting kind of flames adjacent news. Pierre Lebron over at the athletic reporting earlier on Thursday that another name in the vacant Vancouver conducts GM search conversation is indeed connected to the flames and I have confirmed this now from a couple

42:44of sources, but yes, can confirm that Brad Paskell has indeed interviewed for the Vancouver or been talked to on the vacant Vancouver job. And that's really cool. When the flames three years ago were going through the process in hiring Brad Trilivings replacement Brad Paskell was in the mix as were a number of other names. Obviously the current general manager was the guy they hired and that's Craig Conroy. But Brad Paskell was in the mix there and Brad has been a part of Conroy staff over the last three years. Brad Paskell is now going on this will be season 13 for him as an AGM with the Calgary flames. He was brought in. So go back if you go back to 1415, I still remember vividly all the different people that were introduced in kind of the late spring of 2014. So a few days after a few weeks after Brad Trilivings was installed

43:46as general manager, he took over from Brian Burke who was kind of bridging the gap from J Feaster. It was only a few days or a few weeks later that they introduced a few different names. They introduced Brad Paskell who came over from hockey Canada to join the squad as an AGM and Craig Conroy was officially named an assistant general manager as well after having the specialist. His first-ever job was special assistant to the acting general manager. The longest title of all time. So Conroy and Paskell were both named official AGMs and Ryan Huska that day was named head coach of the Adderondack flames and that was when 12 years ago when Ryan Huska started in the organization in the American League and worked his way up obviously to an assistant on the Bill Peter staff and then Darryl staff and then of course as head coach of the flames the last number of years but that was 12 years ago. So that's and before that Brad Paskell

44:46was extremely successful in the performance, like the high performance and the program of excellence and all that type of stuff with hockey Canada. Oh, well junior gold, the Olympic gold. He was building Olympic teams. World Cup of hockey I think in 04 he was part of that staff wasn't on. Part of they have believed the 0-2 in the 0-6 and the 2010 staffs 2014. 2014 was his last team that he was a part of and he just helped put together maybe the most dominant team that we've ever seen and played the sport. Like that 2014 team Canada team with Kerry Price and net and Crosby at his zenith and all of that like that drew doubt he was out of his mind like that may have been the most dominant stretch of any hockey team that's ever played the sport. And so yeah, I just think very cool. I think Brad's name is one that you'll hear more and more attached to potential openings around the league. He's done a great job as we know with the Calgary Wranglers. It's been a VP most most recently. He's been a VP and assistant general manager with the flames vice president of hockey ops, AGM and he's one of the main things that Brad

45:52Paskell's done has been running the Wranglers and I know this year was a difficult year on the ice for the Wranglers, but that's not the only way that you judge an American league team as you'd know. I'm in the development record over the last few years for that Wranglers team has been second to none. So very cool to see Brad Paskell's name out there and can confirm that report that he has been in contact with Vancouver about their potential job and good on him because he's he's done a lot of good things and he's worked his way up in this conversation. Yeah, great guy and a resume to match. I know he's been with the flames for a long time now, but I also want to say that he was part of the spangler cup. Yeah, he was a spangler cup. Jumpo Joe was he know? Thornton, that's right. Yeah, which is again a very highly thought of position and one that comes with a lot of recruiting and assembling for the team. So I would say good for Vancouver. I think they need to cast a wide net and the more guys like Paskell,

46:55I think you interview you're only going to be in better shape forward going forward if you're Vancouver. So good for Brad of them. Curious where this goes and sounds like a pretty lengthy list in Vancouver right now that hasn't really gotten whittled down yet, but as the draft gets closer, you know, they got to have those things in place or pretty close to in place and interesting to see that Brad was one of those names brought up by by LeBron. So good on you Brad and we'll see where that goes and whether that ends up him being this weird, wouldn't it? Not having Brad Paskell. Yeah, it would be, it'd be strange. Especially with that team. Yeah, but so professionally, good luck. And yeah, I think whether he gets this job or not, I think he'll be a name that you hear connected to other open GM jobs going forward. Okay, he's logo on Pat. We are underway this hour. Kevin Woodley is our next guest. I really want to talk about Dan Bladar with Kev because what a story that has been in, you know, mixing a save on Wednesday

48:00night. We can say it. He got the shut up. Big save Dave. We didn't jinx it. So that and a whole one. Let's take a, no, it's not one idiot. Big save Dave. That's a different goalie. Who's not making big saves? Nope. Shut up. It's not Dave Bladar. Nope. You're an idiot. That was dumb. What a moron. That's funny. Take a break. Uh, continue along. Flames Talkies on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Seeker. Go get us wherever you get your podcasts. Talking your team right now. Flames Talk is on SportsNet 960 The Fan. Flames Talkies brought to you by Mr. Louvre plus tires. Gas prices are nuts. Mr. Louvre plus tires is here to help save $25 on an oil change and another $25 on a Mr. Louvre plus tires service package. Open eight till eight seven days a week. Rediscover Mr. Louvre plus tires. Ready when you are. Hey, hey, it's Steinberg and Logan Gordon along with you as we continue on this Thursday

49:03edition of the program. And time to welcome in our goal tending expert. It's time to kick things around with Kevin Woodley from Ingoal Magazine and NHL.com kept joining us every Thursday here on the program on the Atlas pizza and sports bar guest hotline. Hello, cab. How are we doing, pal? Forget we're good. The sun is out here in Vancouver. This is normally what what I would call ideal playoff weather. There is nothing like the West Coast, whether it's in Seattle or Vancouver. I'm obviously biased. I was just there. I was just there on. I was just there on the weekend. Friday Saturday in Van and then into Coquitlam the rest of the time. It was lovely weather. It's tough. It's tough to beat the lower mainland in the spring and summer. We are we are at that point. The only thing missing is playoff hockey. There's just nothing like any guys have experienced in Calgary. There's just nothing like going into the rank when it's around 20 degrees out in sunny. It's a great balance. So we would like to see if there were

50:06others for now. Yep. I look forward to the day. We're 20 degrees here in Calgary too. The spring is finally arrived after the 742 centimeters of snow that we got in late April. It's now beautiful out here as well. So it feels like spring is finally arrived and we are smack dab in the middle of the playoffs a little bit less than two weeks into round one. And boy, one of the stories is the play of Dan Bladar who posts a 42 save shut out as Philadelphia beats Pittsburgh won nothing in overtime in Philly and Game 6 on Wednesday night to advance to round two and take on the Carolina Hurricanes. Before we go any deeper on on Dan Bladar, just overall, how would you grade his sixth game? That awful goal that ended up beating him off the glass and that could have been a real deflator and then he goes out and does this to wrap up a series. How do you sum up Dan Bladar's first real playoff performance?

51:08Impressive, right? There's no other word for it. He finishes two shut outs and he had two playoff appearances coming in. He finished the series with two shut outs and you're right. We can look at the technical and the tactical way that he plays the game and break down all those aspects and that's my job for NHL.com. And we did heading into the series and coming out of it. And I do think there was an element of things that he does well, being what Pittsburgh attacked and things that he struggles with statistically, not getting touched by the penguins, what we can get to that in a minute because we don't we don't often get to see glimpses between the ears. We only see what happens between the pipes. And to your point, to not dwell in any way on that, just bad break, tough bounce off the end boards that cost some game fire that put the penguins back into the series to have the performance he did last night.

52:13With the atmosphere, with the pressure that comes with it, with the chances, like, listen, like the flyers are a team that I think goalies will want to play behind. They're a rick-talkie team. We saw it here in Vancouver as good as he's been and his adjusted save percentage, like plus 3.2 percent. So saving them like over three goals every hundred shots, almost a goal of game in the playoffs, even with an 8.99 expected higher than, you know, than the league average, one of the higher ones so far through the first round, like his performance was so good. And take a look at some of the chances they had. Manta, alone in tight, rust, alone in tight, Malcolm coming off the wing on a two on one, turning it into a breakaway low shot. Like, there were some point blank looks, and Archer Sealoft was standing on his head at the other end as well. And he never blanked, right? And so, you know, for all the sort of evolution of his game, technically and tactically, I think last night really showed the mental strength that he has to sort of persevere. And

53:13you get into those playoffs games and like, you just can't give in for a minute mentally, not even for a second. You take one, you know, one, one puck in the corner, you don't look off the puck to find the guy in the slot for that next pass. You hesitate for one second, you get tired or quiet or lazy for one second, and that's when it burns you. And he didn't have any of that last night. It was, it was just your happy form. You guys got the home in Calgary. He's a great guy. He worked really hard. He took his shot at an opportunity that he wasn't going to get in Calgary and you're happy for how it's paying off for him. The time in Calgary, how much did it, how much did we see signs that this could happen? How much of what we've seen this year postseason and more is a surprise? I'm just curious as to how much the scene was set based on his three seasons with the plans. I'm not going to lie. I didn't see this coming to this degree, right? Like, I had questions about this signing. There were a lot of sort of underlying numbers that pointed to it being a good signing.

54:17And there were, you know, some, like I said, like, the reality is if you're a goalie playing behind Rick talking when he has buy into his system is a good thing. But to this degree, I think we did glimpses and we talked about it several times on this program before about, you know, he'd have spurts where he'd be needed as a number one and he'd deliver at that level. But whether it was opportunity or just inconsistency, the inability to sort of continue, and that's a hard thing to do. And he's done it this year. Like, I was breaking down the, you know, funny enough, I was breaking down the Vezna voting, you know, and looking for sort of guys that probably deserved a mention that didn't get a mention. And I, you know, I landed on names like Logan Thompson, you know, was fairly obvious. Scott Wedd would be fairly obvious. But honestly, Dan Flanar should have been in that conversation when I look at where he graded out across, you know, multiple statistics. Quality starts this year or clear site analytics versions of quality

55:21starts. They call it a positive game percentage. He had, he was 76.9%. That's forced in the NHL and amongst starters, because Cooley was number two in L and was number one amongst actual workhorse starters, but our second behind only Jeremy Swainman. When you look at, yeah, again, favorable defensive environment, but he outperformed it plus 1% on the season, adjusted to a percent of seventh in the NHL. You know, his, his goal saved above expected a little further down, because again, somewhat was environment. But 12.4 is top 10 in the national hockey league, and ahead of where Andre Vassilowski finished, right? So, I'm not going to say I saw it coming because I had questions about that signing being a fit, but it's been fantastic. And it's, he's taken the glimpses we saw and outside of, you know, maybe a little dip heading into the Olympics. And I do think the Olympic break was somewhat important for them as a team to sort of

56:22reestablish their game and probably for him as well. But outside of that little dip in before, he's been remarkably consistent this year. You know, it's funny. I'm not trying to throw Logan out of the bus, but it's a really good way to enter the conversation. So just before we brought you on, we were talking just a little bit about Dan and logo said, big save Dave. And he's, I waited a second. That's not the, not the right guy. Turn your mic on. We're not, we're not making fun of you. But it's, it's important because big save Dave, David Riddick, Dan Vlodar, Dustin Wolf. Now we're talking about Devon Cooley, who knows about our Sanny Sergev, right? But, like, it's just another one of those, like that, that's, that's a guy. The flames identified. That's a guy that that worked with Jason LaBarbra and this goal-tending program here in Calgary for three seasons. Look at what Dave Riddick has done since leaving Calgary. We obviously know what Wolf and Cooley have done here in Calgary. Like, I know that we tend to pump the tires

57:23of Jordan Sigilette's crew quite a bit on this program, especially when you're on with us, Kev. But like, it's tough not to when the hits keep on coming. Yeah, I know, and I said, it's funny, because again, I was doing that exercise of, of sort of looking at Vezna finalists and when I, to get to Vasilaski in 11th place and goals saved, I had to pass two, two Calgary flames goal tenders, right? Devon Cooley in a tiny sample finished fourth by Clearside Analytics goal save, who I've expected. And first, as a rate stat, per a hundred shots, first in adjusted save percentage, and Dustin Wolf was 10th. You know, just a hair above Andre Vasilaski from a, you know, performance relative to environment. And you know, it's funny one, because one of the things I didn't mention in terms of what's changed for, for Dan what are, is environment, right? Like, and that's the one thing that, you know, there's questions now. Can the flames improve the environment? And will the goalies continue to have success behind a better environment as it improves? Like, this is what what are is doing behind a defensive environment that's way more consistent, way more responsible,

58:28way more predictable. Some goalies struggle when they get less busy. But that's, you know, that's the job they've done. I guess it's a credit to the individuals at each level. It's a credit to the way they work together. New ideas can come from the top or from the bottom and they're treated equally. And honestly, it's a little, it's a little mind boggling to me that more teams aren't trying to emulate this. Like, Jordan Segalat is truly in charge. He is a true director. There are other teams around the league that will put somebody in the role, but then not have the same type of top to bottom structure within the department in terms of who actually does what and end up with a bunch of individuals as opposed to a team. It really is the model. And there are other teams that are like Florida's on a similar level, right? Like LeWongo in charge, François Lair is a consultant,

59:33Robbie Callis, who's been there forever in the minor leagues. They hire Sylvan Rodrig out of away from the Edmonton Oilers to run their American League team, Leo LeWongo, who is exceptional moves into more of a scouting and development role, roving and they have multiple scouts. Like, those are the two gold standards. Calgary and the West, Florida and the East. And I think what's even more remarkable is Florida's probably got about I don't have this exactly, but someone told me when you add the goalie's specific scouting to it, they're close to nine people in the department. And so what Calgary's doing, they may have some goalie scouts as well, but what they're doing on a smaller scale. Like, it's just, how do we just have teams without directors? How do we have teams that aren't using the role properly? You point to all those names. Yes, there's a cost to having an apartment, but run down that list. And you tell me why the team down the road, Edmonton, hasn't made a similar investment. Where would they be if they had a list of those guys coming in consistently?

1:00:38It's not just about the moves that hit. It's about not making the moves that don't at the really high level. And they haven't had a lot of failures when it comes to, you know, proscoating evaluation, at least at the national hockey league level. They've had all these fines, you know, like, from the draft to prosco, to prosigning. So it's, yeah, it is, it is a giant tire pump session. If they're listening, I expect to check to be in the mail, but no one of them is for sure required. So no watches required, but like, they just keep doing a great job, right? And they're good people, which makes it easier to pump the tires as well, but it just blows me away. Like, we're seeing teams in the playoffs right now that don't really look like they have an answer in goal. And I know how it works behind the scenes in terms of how their decisions are made and maybe some quite often how the goalie people aren't empowered to be a part of the decision. Like, it's not just that you don't have a director in a lot of situations, but it's that people in management don't necessarily pay attention

1:01:43to everybody in the golden department before making goal tending decisions. And so I just scratch my head at those that can't see the benefits of finding good people like the three they have in Calgary and empowering them to do the job the way they're doing it. Thousand percent. He's he's Kevin Woodley. He's our goalie expert. He joins us every Thursday here on Flames Talk. It's Steinberg and Logan Gordon with you on this Thursday logo. Kevin, we probably beat around the Vesna conversation enough right now. What do we think of the the three finalists? Sbroken, Swamon and Vasilesky. And if I correct Vasilesky, he's the only previous winner of the group. Yeah, I mean, this, I mean, this is a tough one for me. I would love to rip them and say they got it wrong again. And I mean, how many weeks ago did I come on your show and say that if Julius Sbroken isn't a finalist or doesn't win the Vesna, we should take the vote away from them. Yeah, it was about four weeks ago or something like that. And then all of a sudden right in the toilet, like a cliff he fell off of. And honestly, to the degree that he fell

1:02:49off, I don't think you can have them as a finalist. And again, I said what I said. So I got to eat that, right? Like I don't wear that. Maybe maybe some of them actually maybe it got back to a few of them. I'm not going to lie. I get I get notes from goalie coaches around the league that whose teams are not willing to spend the money on clear side analytics. And they want to know what the numbers say because their GM's ask them who should win. And so they actually ask me stuff for my advice by any means. But what the numbers say because they don't have the same access and to help them inform their general managers. And I'm going to I'm going to put a little we're going to put a little aside here. As an aside, when it comes to the GM's voting for the league or voting for this award. And if I'm not mistaken, being the only voters that don't actually have to publish how they voted, like there's problems with this, right? Like we recognize that. Not just you know, Brian, Brian Park once said that we get to vote on the award for the position we get wrong the most. And you know, he certainly did when he was in charge of goal tending at multiple

1:03:54locations. But I had one goalie coach years ago who reached out. And when I gave him a list of who was top three in goal state above expected, he said, I can't put that guy at the top of my list. My general manager hates him and he'll ignore my whole list. Maybe I'll put him at three. So again, the absurdity of people that have these biases and have these professional experiences with the goal tenders that are part of the votes. That's my aside. This year, honestly, I think Serokin fell off a cliff to the extent where it should have been Logan Thompson ahead of him. Now, I understand the GM's are probably going to look at wins first and foremost. That's why that's the last key almost certainly wins this. And they're going to be less likely to put in two goalies who didn't make the playoffs. Even if Logan Thompson and Ilius Serokin both played or backstop teams that would have made the playoffs in the West, how the Washington capitals would have won the Pacific division when you look at the tiebreakers. And they didn't make

1:04:56the playoffs. So I get it. Swaman and Vasilevsky are in. They made the playoffs. I think Logan Thompson should be the third guy and he arguably he should win it. Like when you compare his performance relative to Vasilevsky's, his goal state above expected is two and a half times that. Like 27.75 compared to 1192. Swaman's at 14.1. He's almost double that. Right. And so the fact he didn't make the playoffs to me like he should probably actually win the award. I have no problem dropping Ilius Serokin out of the top three because he fell off so precipitously at a time when his team needed him to have a chance to make the playoffs. It all came apart. He dropped almost seven goals over the last three weeks of the season relative to expected. That's how bad it was. The other guys that got snubbed. I mentioned Wedgewood. I mentioned Bladar. This is the problem too with goals saved above expected. In a bad environment,

1:05:56you have a chance to really rack up the numbers. It's hard to do. But if you have a great season in a bad environment, that's how you can get Devon Cooley fourth in the league despite not playing nearly as much as the other guys. But when I look at even Wedgewood compared to Vasilevsky, now in that one, it's like, okay, they both the two easiest environments in the NHL or amongst the finalist where Wedgewood and Vasilevsky. Vasilevsky won Wedgewood too. Wedgewood outperformed Vasilevsky by a significant margin behind a similar environment. The only reason he wouldn't get into the finalist is because he finished behind him in wins and only had 43 starts. So I don't know where that line is. The fewest starts to win the Vesna are 48 by Linus Almark in 2023. And clearly, they didn't feel that Wedgewood had enough to qualify. But by the numbers, you know, again, if you're willing to say that 43 is enough, then he should have been in there. So there's a whole bunch of different factors that make it really hard to come up with a concrete answer. But when I

1:06:56look at all of them, like Logan Thompson is the only guy that's sort of in the top five of all the metrics that I look at. Next up would be Jeremy Swamon. I would probably give him the Vesna ahead of Vasilevsky based on the season. And yet there are people that will push back and say, Andre Vasilevsky won 39 games. The Tampa Bay Lightning were a totally different team when he wasn't in net. The amount of starts, second and a league to only Vamelka, like these things all matter, why are you punishing him for playing behind a good defensive environment? And that's fair too. So it's a, I guess what I'm saying in a very long-winded fashion, which is my specialty, is that it's really tough to come up with a definitive answer. When I look at all the numbers, I probably would have had Logan Thompson followed by Jeremy Swamon and then either Scott Wedgewood or Andre Vasilevsky. I just think to fall off in the last two weeks on Therokin. You can't be the best goal tender in the league for the year. If when the games mattered most, you are statistically one

1:07:58of the worst for a three-week stretch. To me, that's just qualifying. But the other four, I mean, pick amongst them. I think we all know Vasilevsky's going to win. And despite the sort of statistical case I just laid out, I don't really have a big problem with that either. He was really good this year. Just a quick aside to that, Kev. If you had your brothers on it, who would you have vote on the Vezna if it wasn't the GM's? Well, there's a paycheck involved out there. Yeah, I'm in with you too. You just tell me who to vote for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Three of us in the Calgary Flames Goldie Department, because we get everything out there, right? Yeah, no fair, you're right. No, honestly, like, you know, it's funny, because in the past, it's made headlines and done really well on social media when I go on and rip to GM's for the this isn't easy. And this has probably been the hardest year. And you can break down the numbers and argue that they didn't get it right a bunch of years. But this one's really tough. Like, I see, I had this conversation with a couple of different Goldie coaches about, you know,

1:09:00why Sorokin couldn't be in there, given how things finished. But I was being too dismissive of Andre Vasilevsky because he played behind a great team. You know, comparing the results of the starters to the backups, you know, could swim into Corpus Sallow wasn't as big a falloff as Vasilevsky to Johansson. You know, Logan Topp, but then Logan Thompson to Charlie Lindgren, struggled a little bit this year. Like Logan Thompson was, you know, behind the same team, just so much significantly better. So it's, I don't know that I have an answer to that. And last, honestly, you just make it like all the other voting that all the other media does and open it up to everybody. That would probably be my solution. I would hope that more people would look at some of these numbers that you'd probably remove some of the biases. I would certainly be publishing my article before the voting was due rather than waiting to the day the finalists are announced

1:10:03so that more people could have a look at it. Like I said, like, there are Goldie coaches that call and ask for a look at these numbers or to hear what the numbers say before they, you know, pass a note to their general manager for their voting. But certainly it's a tiny percentage of them. And there are more that are doing it using their, you know, even proprietary analytics with other companies that I know doesn't value some of the most important stuff when it comes to Gold timing and truly measuring shock quality. Because I've seen under the hood and it doesn't compare. And so, you know, a lot of them are voting with frankly bad intel. Yeah. Well, hey, you gave us a bunch of great playoff topics to get to and we're going to get to zero of them. But we did get the Vesna in and we did get lots. I guess Vlodar counts as playoff content. So, hey, look, we'll have lots to talk about on on next week's hit as well. Cab is the postseason continues. Appreciate the time. As always, my friend and we'll do it again next Thursday.

1:11:05Be well. Enjoy the gorgeous weather on the West Coast. Hey, I will. I'll try and mix on it. Mix in one or two fewer coffees before next week. So we can get to more questions. We'd rather not. We like it. Just like it. Just the way you are. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Kevin Woodley is our Goldie expert from Ingoal magazine and NHL.com. He joins us each and every week on the Atlas Peats and sports podcast hotline, fresh reno, same legendary eats Atlas pizza is your sports headquarters 60 60 memorial drive northeast Atlas pizza, where every night's a big night is we start to move towards the end of this hour of flames talk. Just a big long hour on this Thursday edition of the program. He's Logan Gordon on Twitter at Fan 960 Logan. My name is Pat Steinberg. Thanks to Taylor Dingman and Cam Hughes, our outstanding producers this hour. Don't forget on Friday show full hour mail bag. We got lots to get to on Friday's edition of flames talk as well. Then they'll start to wrap us up in this hour of flames talk has been the sports drive brought to you by smart multifamily by Calgary lock and safe from access control and cameras to smart suites thermostats

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