High Court strips Finance Minister of unilateral VAT powers and Africa’s trade momentum strengthens

And now the money show with Stephen credits on 7-0-2, let's walk the toll.

The money show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you by Absor Corporate and Investment Banking.

Refined performance is a measure of discipline that's how we're invested in your story.

Absor is a registered FSP. Good evening. Welcome to the program, the dare I say Friday

edition of the money show tonight plenty going on. I mean, oil prices sitting $90 announced

and I always sort of remember, you know, right at the beginning of the year, we were looking

at oil prices because of what the US had done in Venezuela and there was sort of 62,

that went to 72, that went back to the low 60s and thought, okay, fine. Nothing to see

here. We're in a sort of era of oversupply suddenly today $90 a barrel and the impact

almost immediate on world markets affecting the JSC, I think, to a large extent. That's

just tell you how we really don't know how this is going to end and how long all of this

is going to go on for. And it's the length of time, I think, that's such a big part of

it. That really is such a big part of what is going to be happening and the longer-term

consequences as we go well. Of course, we will explore them a little later when we speak

to our market commentator, Grant Nader, Benguela, asset managers in a short while as well.

After the market's closed, quite a big announcement from African Bank, and you'll hear from

the chat, I will blotty, in a moment. Kennedy-Bungani, the CEO, leaving, and very, very suddenly.

I mean, let me just make this point about banks generally, and as you know, not an expert

on banks, but generally, when CEOs change, there's this sort of long interim period, you

know in advance, the successor is sort of announced and groomed and all the rest, hasn't

happened in this case, although the interim CEO is someone who's been at the bank for

a very long time. So early in the morning, it's sort of been rarely, the fact of deputy

I suppose. Well, we're here to blotty a talk in just a moment. At the situation around

that, I found this fascinating, and I don't know if the longer-term consequences of this

have been considered yet, but by removing from the finance minister the power to unilaterally

change the vac rate, opens the door to political parties demanding a say in what the vac rate

is. And that's when things start to get very interesting. I mean, can you imagine a voting

parliament on the vac rate? I just can't see it being constructive, and this is one of

the problems with tax. Is that tax is not something you do democratically, because, you know,

no one wants to pay it. So I think this could be very, very interesting. I'm looking, we'll

speak to Michaela Pascini in a moment, an expert on tax, about that tax ruling. I think it

is fascinating. Friday, file tonight. Then I've noticed that I haven't been to one of these

lodges, really, but you get these sort of game lodges that have gone from kind of a

lodge to kind of really super duper luxury. I'm talking about botanical infusions. I don't

know what that is, but, you know, you're talking about kind of wellness and luxury. And I

think also stillness. I think that is something that's so interesting, the sort of silence.

I kind of want something, if I'm going with a family, I want something that'll take

all our phones away. I just want that. Wi-Fi is not something that I want when I go

on one of these holidays. We'll talk about how that business is changing in a moment.

OWA 30702-021-4460567, and voice notes tonight on 07202-1702.

The Mali Show. With Stephen Kruders, live on 92.7 and 106 FM streaming on the primary

U-plus app and DSTV channel 856. Well, in an announcement after the JSC had closed the African

Bank CEO, Kennedy Bungani, leaving the bank. He's being replaced by his William and Yachty.

He'll be the interim CEO. A few moments ago, we were able to grab a very brief conversation

to the group-chaired African Bank, a troubled Loti in Austin, where Kennedy, what was happening

to Kennedy Bungani?

Thank you. A bigger question is where we are in the phase of African Bank. We have gone

through an explanatory phase where we have our partnerships, we have build a product

business, which really suited the need that Kennedy was. He brought a lot of enthusiasm,

a lot of energy into product. We are now moving into the consolidation phase. This is

that a different approach. We bend down all the acquisitions we have made, ensure that

we drive efficiencies from the businesses that we have now put in place and improve the

proposal to our customers. In the board, we feel that that's required in the data and

with different strands to get us through this phase.

It sounds listening to you that you asked them to step down.

We focused really on, just for course, the who we needed and we feel at this stage we

do an issue in.

Okay. So is there a payout? Are there particular terms associated with us?

Look, in partying of ways of this nature, we are obviously, we have worked with Kennedy

for five years. This is partying of ways that expose parties. We are making sure that

transition points in parts, a good note for the good work he has done and we continue

on a good note where the TVS build begins ready.

Double Glotty there, the chair at African Bank. And I must just point out that conversation

unfortunately cut short by connection issues. There are many other longer-term questions

to ask about the longer-term strategy of the bank where it is going from here. I do

think this is a sort of, you know, just in the sort of opening moments of this decision.

Does seem to me to be an announcement that might take the market by surprise. I don't

know if there are any indications of this coming. And as we know, Kennedy Bungani have been

there for five years, but as Double Glotty says, they left on a good note. So interesting,

I don't know if you have a view on what's been happening there. 07-2-702-1-702.

The money show with Stephen Krutters.

On 7-0-2.

7-0-2.

Fourteen after six or the ruling yesterday, the finance minister cannot just unilaterally

change the rate of that. It has so many implications, I think. I'm not sure if everyone

sort of sat down and worked out how, just perhaps, this could make that a political issue

in a way that we haven't seen before. Let's give a legal understanding of what happened

yesterday. Michaela Pascini is the team lead at tax consulting S.A. Michaela, good evening.

I already do appreciate the time. So this is all about the decision by Enoch Gwana to

increase that. He did this last year. He then withdrew it. He had argued that Parliament

would have had the power to sort of overrule him at a later point. What are the judges

saying about this power that up until now, the finance minister has had to change the

rate of that? Great. Good evening, Stephen. I'm delighted to be joining you.

So yes, as you know, last year, following the whole VAT saga and the proposed increase

to that, the DA took on a challenge to the Section 7-4 of the VAT Act and the United

Unconstitutional. Following yesterday's judgment, we know that the High Court has found

that Section 7-4 of the VAT Act is in fact unconstitutional. And perhaps just for a bit of context,

what Section 7-4 does in its current form at least, is it empowers the Minister of Finance

to change the vacate by simply announcing it in the budget speech. And then Parliament

has a period of 12 months to confirm that by way of legislation. And that sort of the

mechanism that the Court found to be unconstitutional in that very preference would be that Parliament

in fact makes such important decisions. We've seen finance ministers raising VAT

before, Malishika Gagabha did it when he was finance minister in 2018. I mean, does that

then make the current VAT rate illegal? And I suppose the courts have been quite careful

to say, look, you've got a period to sort this out. So it's not technically illegal now

as a result of the court ruling, but I suppose it could have been otherwise.

Here, look, you're very right. It is not technically illegal. But what they found was it does not

accord with our constitutional principles. And what I mean by that is the court legal issue

here was whether the Section 7-4 accords with the democratic principle summarized as there

can be no taxation with our representation. And practically, what this means is because

tax is so important, it must be imposed by those who weirdly linked it to represent us in Parliament.

So it's really about the mechanism empowering a VAT rate change as opposed to the VAT rate change itself.

It gets to the heart of a very interesting issue. So how much power should one personal

department have to raise the level of taxation as you say? I would presume in most democracies,

while it can be a political issue in the end, it actually probably is a power that's quite tightly

held. I would presume, often through, through the person of whoever the finance minister is.

It's certainly a very good point, but ultimately because, and especially when it comes to that,

because that affects each and every one of us in this country, it is very important.

Or at least the court is on the view that it is very important that it follows the legislative

process. So there's a level of conversation in Parliament, the debate, you know, is this

something that should be passed? Because it's all the minister of finance, have these duties

and responsibilities to give a minister a blanket ability to, and I'm speaking in our

hypotheticals, not that change of that rate to 100 percent as an example. On the announcement,

it's a bit unfeelable. From this judgment, how wide does the consultation need to be? So I presume

Parliament and Michaela, frankly, I worry a little bit about that because I agree we need to have

democracy. I can't fault the judgment's sort of major principle that you can't have taxation

without representation. As any American will tell you that that can lead to revolutions,

but it can also be an incredibly destructive argument because very few people are going to vote

for a tax increase. Definitely, and actually to your point, one of government's submissions

during the hearing of the school case was that if that rate change to undergo a normal legislative

cycle, it could take very long. We wouldn't have predicted, predictable, so revenue drivers and

the like. But ultimately, something like that does need to perhaps have an additional level of

other side. So whether that's the normal parliamentary process or some sort of a hybrid mechanism,

I'm not sure, but we do believe that when we consider that very tight, that decision is to be

taken very carefully, especially in an already strained economy. There's now a principle in

our law from this judgment that says Parliament must have a say in raising or lowering the

that rate. Is there any reason why this could not be used as a precedent for Stephen to go to

court to say Parliament must also have a say in raising the rate of income tax?

That's also, I mean, that's a very good question. Ultimately, this court specifically looks

at Section 7-4, though, and does not apply to other sorts of taxes. We don't see from the case

as cited in the judgment that there are instances where it might be permissible for that

authority to be delegated to another person, as opposed to religious leisure.

But ultimately, this case doesn't see the presidential fact in only branch at the stage.

There's such a, I keep coming back to the sort of central nub of this argument, which is,

do you allow tax rates to be set by professionals, so the finance minister, who is himself

democratically elected, it should be said? I suppose technically you could have a finance minister

who's not a member of Parliament, but generally speaking, the current finance minister is,

if I remember correctly, and therefore is democratically elected. But you also have the idea

that tax does need to be sorted out by experts, and on the other side, you want democracy.

And I don't think democracy really sets too much democracy, would set very good tax policy.

I mean, the onus has sort of moved here towards democracy and away from experts, hasn't it?

In your sense, it's a very good observation that you have made.

Ultimately, at the heart of the issue is, when you make such an important decision,

such as a vacate change, or we as a people having a say in that, I fully agree in the sense that

the minister should at least have significant oversight on that and sort of drive the policy

reforms around that and the enforcement thereof. But I do believe the judgment is ultimately welcome.

It's just, it obviously depends on how they choose to change the legislation to now accommodate

this judgment. Michaela Pastini, thanks so much. Such an interesting conversation.

A team leader, tax consulting, you say, who should set the vet rate?

Should it be Parliament? Should be the finance minister? Should it be you?

072, 702, 1702.

The money show, explainer.

The standard bank trade barometer suggesting this week, there's been an improvement in infrastructure

across 10 of the major markets in Africa. That seems to be helping business confidence,

I suppose, the next question is, is it actually helping businesses and economies to grow?

Philip Mayberg is the grouphead of trade for business and commercial banking at standard bank.

Philip, good evening. You've been publishing this barometer for some time. You say you're seeing a

real change in the infrastructure indicators. What seems to be happening?

Good evening, Stephen. Good to be with you and your listeners. Yes, very excited about these

results, because they are actually quite positive as you alluded. It is the first edition

that we're bringing out. We've got some fantastic trains to start looking out and comparing to you.

The confidence stems from infrastructure and a couple of other things. You've alluded to

infrastructure, all 10 markets that we surveyed over 2,000, 2,218 odd businesses, 71% of them being

SMEs. It really gives you a good feel of what the small businesses on the continent are saying.

In all 10 markets, the perception around infrastructure has improved across all types of

infrastructure. Airports, roads, rails, ports, power, telecoms, water, all up year on year. For

the first time since we've done this barometer, and then that translates into business confidence.

We're seeing the confidence index specifically rise from 59 to 65. There's a couple of other

elements to government support, digitisation and a couple of other things supporting that

improved confidence. If you have changes in one market in terms of infrastructure, does it

impact another market? If someone's port starts working better, does someone else spend more money

on their railways, I suppose would be the example? Absolutely. We're seeing that in a number of

contexts, especially in the example that you now use around ports. We've got landlocked markets

like Zambia being a great example. If the port infrastructure from Mozambique, South Africa,

Namibia starts improving. Immediately it becomes easier for traders in Zambia to trade, for businesses

and southern Africa to move their goods into the rest of Africa. All of these things are connected.

We're seeing that also translates into the barometer where all the elements that translate into

how easy it is to do business ultimately stems from things like infrastructure. We know that

infrastructure is one of the biggest non-tariff barriers to trade on the continent. That's why

the positive sentiment is starting to shine through. Positive sentiment, positive infrastructure,

positive confidence, positive growth as a result, automatically, Philip, he says optimistically.

Yes, so obviously the growth metric that's being used is historical figures. We look at things

like GDP, the 10 markets that we track in Sub-Saharan Africa represent 70% of Sub-Saharan Africa's GDP,

it's a fairly good metric. Those markets have averaged 4% growth in GDP over the last four

ideas that's compared to a global average of 3%. Comparing historic trends, 4% is obviously good,

but who knows what's going to happen going forward from a GDP perspective with as it relates to

the immediate risks that we see. Obviously this barometer was done before the conflict in the

Middle East broke out. If the world price goes above $100, that will have significant impact

in the short term on many of these economies. Take inflation as an example last year,

seven out of these 10 markets, inflation came down and one could argue that we'll have a different

picture in the near term following the conflict in the Middle East. But the point really here is

that the positive sentiments are driven by structural changes. So whatever happens in the short

term, as it relates to, for instance, the Middle East impact, the structural changes are happening,

whether it's the infrastructure that we mentioned, but also governments,

response rates are becoming faster. Their agility, businesses in Africa are saying statistically

through the survey are saying the government is becoming better at supporting trade through the

policies and that they put in place and the investment that's required for it. And that's

structural, of course, and we'll support longer term growth. Philip Myberg, thanks so much,

good positive story. Group head of trade for business and commercial banking at Standard Bank.

The money show. The market.

Front-naders portfolio manager Benguela, global fund managers, Grant Good evening. I mean,

an after-trading statement on cents from African Bank, Kennedy Bungani, is leaving his CEO.

You would have heard the very brief interview we did with Tuberd Lawty, the chair. What do you

make of it all? Yeah, it's a pity that we didn't get all the answers, Stephen. I mean, you raised

the point and it's a very valid one. With banks, you don't want to see sudden movement. You want

to see gentle, slow transitions, well advertised, et cetera. So when you see an almost immediate

resignation, it does talk to some fundamental disagreement whether it's over strategy or something

else between them. And I think it's a real shame because you know, he's been at the home for

five odd years now and I think he's done a great job of transforming the business, diversifying the

business. And I think there were still plans. You know, they haven't listed yet. The listing plans

were delayed. It feels to me like it's a big loss. He's very well connected in the industry.

He's got a strong personal brand and you know, we were chatting about it earlier and I think

there's a chance he might end up at absent. You know, just speculation, our own personal speculation

given that he has worked for Kenny Feetler in the past and he's such a highly credentialed

gentleman. So we'll see where this goes. Yeah, I mean, I'm sort of interested in the longer-term

strategy as well. And what that means, I mean, you know, obviously they're not changing direction.

They have been busy. Maybe they do need a moment of consolidation. Yeah, I mean, true,

they've done a lot. And sometimes you can't just keep pushing. You've got a bit down everything.

You know, Mr. Suley Bunz is taking over. He's been there since 2022. He's had a very senior role

there as well. So I think he's a safe pair of hands and probably a more aligned to consolidating what

they've done rather than expanding the vision and building out from here. So yeah, I think that

may be exactly what plays out over the next couple of years. African Rainbow Minerals and almost

everyone who's reported on the African Rainbow Minerals presentation today has started with the

fact that a Patrice Macepe is not running for president or leader of the ANCR. Suppose I should say,

I couldn't resist myself. But I mean, obviously, platinum prices helping them. I did feel a bit

sorry looking at their share price later though. Look, I think the share price performance was

bundled in with all the other resource counters. So you can't read too much into it. It wasn't a bad

result. Strong revenue growth. Platinum kicked beautifully. They shot the last shot as they

should in this environment. But I'd say a little bit disappointing from the ferrous metals,

manganese and iron ore, really just a little disappointing on production and sales there.

And those are actually the bigger part of the business. But with PGMs where there are,

and let's hope they can stay there, you know, at least it's a nice contribution to earnings.

I think costs seem to be a challenge as it is for many of the miners. And you know,

you're not seeing the operating leverage to the extent that you would have wanted to.

But still not a bad number, a good cash generation, you know, they added nearly two billion in

cash over the six months. So I think they're in a good position using the PGM process to build

the balance sheet. Oil prices, we've got 20 seconds left, Grant, but oil prices $90 a barrel.

I mean, it's the sort of worst fear and you worry what could happen come Monday.

It is a problem. We've got the Rand weaker by 5 percent. We've got oil up over 25 percent.

This does not look good for South Africa. This is even a couple of months. The fundamental growth

story, the self-hobbs, patent rates, inflation target, everything starts to be reassessed.

And so this is not a good scenario. Thank you for playing out in the banks today.

And it's going to feed through into the broader economy, not yet, but it will come.

And we just have to hope that this is short-lived.

All right. Thanks very much. Indeed, really, to appreciate it, Grant.

Nader is the portfolio manager, Bingueleg, global fund managers. And yeah, so many interesting

things to look at. I'm afraid over the situation in the Middle East, just on 6.30.

What's up, Stephen? On 072, 7.02, 1.7.02.

Well, interesting conversations tonight. You heard Tuberd Lawty from Standard Bank,

a little from Standard Bank, Stephen, from African Bank, the chair at African Bank a little while ago.

Also, of course, that conversation around that, as you could hear, I think, in the conversation

we're having, but on the vents on this one, I'm not convinced that giving parliament the right

to the power to change that is going to end very well, just because of the nature of tax.

You can't necessarily do it democratically. But voice notes coming through on 072, 7.02, 1.7.02.

Stephen, I just want to find out, the vent issue is it can now wake up the same way in the USA,

where now people, after the judgment of tariffs, demanding a refund, people are also going to get

the refund for scenario what we have the vent issue. Thank you. Thank you, it's such a great,

such a wonderful question. My understanding is no, because in our system, I mean, judges don't

have to do this, but they have done this often and they did it here. They, I think the legal phrase is

come on Stephen, I think it's called the suspension of invalidity. And what that means is the

law has been declared evalid, it has been declared invalid, but the period, if you like, at which

it becomes legally invalid, is not, this is only lawyers could do this, is not on the date of the

judgment, but is for however long the period of invalidity has been suspended. Well, the suspension

of invalidity last. So if it lasts two years, Parliament's got two years to fix it and there's no

refund. If it goes beyond that, well, that's when you have trouble and you've actually had cases

where government has gone to a court and other people have gone to a court and said,

you gave us two years to fix this, we haven't been able to do it. Can we have an extension please?

And now you really are in sort of never, never land because you're asking for something to be

that's been being declared illegal to be allowed for a lot longer. And that is a problem. I think

it actually happened with social grants, if I remember, in the payment system, just to say so,

the short answer is no, the legal phrase, I think, is suspension of invalidity, which really,

if it's not a bad name, should be 20 minutes to seven. 17 minutes to seven, don't forget the

Friday bus blitz in just a moment. Some very interesting questions coming through, quite a lot of

fun sort of preparing them a little earlier. Something happening today on the JSE, you don't see

very often, a public rebuke by the JSE. So by the JSE itself published on the Stock Exchange

News Service for Montengu Mining. And essentially, it's quite a lengthy document worth going through,

if you're interested in these things and I suppose I kind of am. They say that some management

at Montengu Mining were involved in a negotiation to buy another company, no problem with that.

They then became aware that the information, which was confidential, had leaked to a third party.

And they say, this is where the problem came in. This can happen, obviously. What they should have

done, says the JSE, is Montengu Mining should have told sort of issued a statement on

sense, telling every shareholder that this negotiation was underway. They did this later,

but they didn't do it when they first realized that the information had leaked. So as I understand

the problem, they're saying they knew some investors knew that this negotiation was happening.

And others didn't. And that, as you know, is not allowed. It's naughty on the Stock Exchange.

And therefore, they're now issuing this public rebuke because the management knew and should have told

the JSE, should have told Sands and basically all the shareholders. It's very interesting. The

relationship between Montengu Mining and the JSE, very difficult. We've had the CEO of Montengu Mining

Peter Miller, I think is his name, if I recall correctly, on the money show before. And just

talking a bit about that relationship. So I mean, I'm not convinced the story is sort of finished

yet because there does seem to be some unresolved engine there. You might know a bit more about it.

It would be good to hear from you on 07272172. The Friday file. The Friday file.

Well, as you sort of head, I hope to a little bit of peace and quiet over the weekend.

One of the real changes we've sort of noticed in the holiday market is around travel lodges,

around wildlife lodges about places, around places you go for a bit of peace and quiet.

I suppose you would say to sort of commune with nature to get out of the big smoke to

be with something that's much older, much more connected to us. And yes, you'd probably

immediately think of the Krueger National Park. But I'm actually talking about something very

different. I'm talking about luxury lodges in this business. It seems to be changing. Jonathan

Lechtman is the director of travel Africa of travel republic Africa writes for luxury dot Africa

as well. Jonathan, good evening. Good to talk to you. It does seem to me that this market is

changing and is offering a slightly different product to say what it was doing 10 years ago.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, people are wanting something different. I think people are just

tired of doing scrolling and they just rest with life. So they're looking for a new experience

to calm their minds, breathe, relax and just experience something different where

the other landscapes can often, indigenous cultures can also help.

It can be quite difficult to not be connected. I'm going to come back to that in a sec. But how do you,

how do they go about providing that moment? I suppose there are two things actually. There's the

moment of quiet. Yes. And then there's the moment of connection. Now, the moment of connection,

you know, instinctively, I kind of think, you know, people I know have come back from one of these

places and they're moment of connections that they saw a leopard. You don't see that every day.

But a moment of connection could also be having the coffee as the sun rises over a particular

berg or mountain. Yes. When you're having a coffee over, looking over like the plateaus,

the sunrise, the sunset, honestly, it calms you. It relaxes you. It's a scientific

perimeter wreck as you feel calm. And that's what people love. People want that. And yeah,

I just feel like people want that constantly. And it's not scheduled. It's there. It's in the moment.

You know, it's, I'd say mindfulness in motion. That's what I say. Mindfulness in motion.

It's interesting that because the place in which you do it is so vitally important. I mean,

these are places literally that don't succeed if they don't have a view.

Absolutely. I mean, well, that's why. That's why there's these luxury lodges that are off

that. And you have to, you pay the price, but you also experience the, the, the amounts of

views, you know, the animals, you know, the yoga, the breathwork, the herbs, and like all these

products that are being used by the indigenous people that are given to you to use. So it's,

it's, it's, it's something that, you know, you need to go to see this amazing

parts of Africa, I say, which I specialize to see the views and to experience just the

storm. I say mindfulness in motion. One of the things obviously is the sort of, I'm just

going to call it a grave game drive or one of the better phrase, but it could be a game walk.

I personally think that more and more we're going to see game kind of mountain biking,

by which I mean, you stay in a place, you go for a 20k cycle. I mean, there are plenty of places

in South Africa, you know, now from Joe Bigg, you'll see giraffe on a bicycle. But the

mode of transport, how important is that? No one need, you know, you like your coffee and you like

your, your, your mountain, but nobody likes the smell of diesel in the morning.

Yes. Well, this, I mean, this varies, you know, it depends on which lodge you go to, but, you know,

you can do the mountain biking, which you can do, push, push walks or push biking, obviously

with a safe safari guide with you, you know, but there are how to see eco-friendly game vehicles

that are utilized, you know, that's a very eco-conscious, that are utilized in some safari

lodges around Africa. But push walks, push bikes, and also in segways, you know, segways

thing right now. So that's those options you can't have. For a long time, what these places would

offer rarely is access to animals. And that, that was, it was a very important part of it, views to

calm, yes. It seems that kind of wellness, the therapies, the, it's a quarter botanical infusion,

but nervous about googling that, Jonathan. But, you know, these, these are things that you didn't

use to get before. You know, but I think people are very scared to use it. So I think it's true,

like, you know, science has proven that these, you know, herbs work, it's a botanical infusion

works, you know, from the local communities, you know, utilize them skin products. So people come

to these lodges to experience a thin thickness, how effective it works, and also giving back to

the community, you know, social responsible, being social responsible. So for me it works, I use a

lot of products that, you know, work, you know, they're bad robots out of the era, all of those

products are scientifically proven that works. No, so it's interesting that lodges are almost

competing on that kind of level too. So the, the wellness is on top of everything else that they

used to do. The wellness seems to be a slightly new kind of thing in the market. Yeah, I mean,

people don't want their days pens to the minute. So they need, they know that they need to go

and escape. So lodges are competing and they need to, you know, think of better ideas, creative

ideas or proven ideas to attract all these clients coming into the bush, into the African bush.

So, I mean, there's different experiences, like good saying, in science, where they do vinyl

therapy, where they utilize the grapes, and then you can, you know, have a skin mask, I mean,

a facial with the grapes, you know, the grape skins, or lie on the bath with grape juice, you know,

from the grape. So something like that is something you experience that people want to try it out.

And that's also in a competitive nature, offering something unique, such as that, to vinyl therapy.

No, sure. And I mean, I suppose, I mean, if you think, I mean, we've had a lot of tourists over

the last sort of towards the end of last year, and if you think these are people who can come here,

they can go to Kenya, they can go to lots of other places that offer similar things. We need to

offer something on top of that, and you've got someone who's never been to Africa, it doesn't

know very much about us, sort of surfing the web somewhere or talking to a friend. You've got

a look for something that really competes on every level. Yeah, I mean, that's every, every place

offers a unique experience, you know, like in Kenya, they have the plateaus with, obviously,

the valleys are quite big and beautiful. Like, how do I say, what's the, the Kenya lodge, the Kenya

experience would be a cigarette, where they're like, the like, type here mountain range. It's

something unique. And the Serengeti is, you know, immediately comes to my mind.

Yeah, the Serengeti, I mean, the Serengeti, yeah, I mean, obviously people go for the migration,

the lodge is obviously unique, and they're obviously the five star lodge are quite, you know,

very expensive, but also luxurious, but people come for the migration, and obviously it's beautiful,

and it's for the sound. That's how people get, how therapeutic it is, just to see, you know,

to northern Serengeti at the Mara crossing. I mean, that's the most therapeutic thing you can do,

is watch the whole migration crossing ribbons, and that's what people do, and it just calms them.

So, so Jonathan, I think for a lot of us, you can go through something really quite special,

and the moment you come back to earth, the moment it, it ends, and the moment you will

mood your face, your mind, dockens, is the moment you look at your phone. And I can't help but

think that the, the lodge that finds a way to both keep us connected to our lives in ways that we

need to be, and protects us from our mobile phones. It's going to be the winner I had,

don't know how you do that. Well, I mean, I was, I was recently, I was in the Hwangi National Park

in Zimbabwe, and I was by the ordering a whole, with the torch, and, you know, we called it Bush

TV, just to what you, you know, animals come at night time, with the torch, and just walking

across, drinking water, lions, like the, the buffaloes, and I mean, if you want to be on their

phone, when you have that, and it just, it's like the, don't put me in a rush, you get, you know,

from watching this, in real life, it just gives you, it just gives you goosebumps, and you just

get so excited to have this, right in front of you. So, I know, I'm, I'm never on my phone,

maybe just to take some pictures, yes, but like, to have that, and sit there for two hours straight,

watching animals, at a, at a warring hole, at night, seeing what is going to happen, what is

going to be a hunt, you know, what is going to be, you know, and there was a lot of exciting

things happening, you know, I need that, you're running around the, the, the, the field,

while a warring hole, you know, the line trying to catch them, you know, it's like, you know,

you can't compare it. Yeah. So, quite something. Jonathan, thank you. Jonathan Lichman, I think you

might have inspired a few holidays, director of travel, Republic Africa, right for luxury.africa,

on your Friday file, on the money show tonight.

Time for the Friday Biz Blitz on the money show at five minutes now to seven. Okay, you know how

this works. We put out a question, you call us on a double one, double eight, three,

oh, seven, oh, two, one, four, four, six, oh, five, six, seven. If you get it right, we move on to

the next question. If you get it wrong, we move on to the next caller. First question on the Friday

Biz Blitz, which South African billionaire is still winning on the football pitch, but refuses to play

on the political pitch, which South African billionaire is still winning on the football pitch,

but refuses to play on the political pitch. Easy question to start.

O double one, double eight, three, oh, seven, oh, two, one, four, four, six, oh, five, six, seven.

The money show Stephen Hoeter's is brought to you by App Self corporate and investment

backing. Refined performance is a measure of discipline. That's how we're invested in your story,

after the risk of FSP. The money show Friday Biz Blitz.

O double one, double eight, three, oh, seven, oh, two, one, four, four, six, oh, five, six, seven,

which billionaire is still winning on the football pitch, but refuses to play on the political pitch,

Taya Chal, in Boxburg High. Hi, even that's Turkish motsefe. Do you know Taya Chal? Of course, you're right.

Okay. That's the second question. Here we go. Are you ready? Show Max? Yes. Show Max is being

shut down. Who has taken the decision to switch it off? Let's first company. I'm going to need

a net. I'm sorry Taya Chal. I'm not going to give you that. Let's try. Come on,

Chal in Springs. Come on, Chal. Hi. Who, Chappell? Who's, who, who owns show Max and decided to switch it off?

Not multi-choice. I'm not going to accept multi-choice in the fridge. Sorry, come on, Chal. Gina

and Pretoria. Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm well. Go for it. I'm well. Thank you. Is this not the NGC

Universal? No. I'm afraid. That's a different deal. Let's try Selma and Rudipwood Selma, the owner

of show Max. It's canal plus. The thing got ahead of you. Selma, yes. Congratulations. You're right.

Okay. Here we go. Third question. Are you ready? Yes. Shop right has shipping containers,

stack and the Suez Canal as the result of the US and Israeli war with Iran. How many are stack

there? Okay. Is the answer to 162 or 300? How many containers belonging to shop right are stack

and the Suez? I'll take a fly and I said 162. Do you know Selma? You're right. It is 162.

Okay. That was a long year. Okay. Last question on the Friday. Let's here we go. A high court

ruling after the high court ruling yesterday, which tax can the finance minister no longer change

on their own? Is it corporate tax? Is it the fuel levy or is it value added tax? Which of those

taxes can the finance minister no longer change on their own? Value added tax? That. Selma,

congratulations. Selma from Rudipwood, thanks so much. You have the money show at 7 o'clock.