Hour 1: The Little Doubt Monster (feat. Elle Duncan)

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This is the Don Levittar show with this TugatSpotcast.

Al Michaels is going to join us here later in the show, El Duncan, as well.

She hosted that skyscraper live event on Netflix.

And I got to think that most humans have the same reaction that I do

except for those daredevil types.

I don't know, what is the name of that sport where people,

I don't know how you get good at this.

Dive off the side of the mountain with wings and a go-

The squirrel suit.

And then yeah, the squirrel suit and then just fly along the side of a mountain.

Watching others do that makes me queasy.

It seems flippant about life.

I also have no idea how you get good at that.

Space jumping?

Yeah, let's try that for the first time.

Yeah, you know, like another sport.

It's like, oh, miss that shot.

Oh, let's keep working.

I don't know how.

I don't know, it seems like a pretty high-stakes game.

Bucket punishment.

It's not like Tom Brady getting better with reps at broadcast.

Hey, KB, can you help me up on the squirrel suit?

Like, when does the trainer say, I think you're ready?

Yeah.

Feels like you got to be pretty sure.

I don't know that all of you have the same feeling

because I haven't talked to you about any of this.

But I assume that most people who are not adrenaline junkies

or daredevils, when they see the guy from free solo,

Alex Hanold, walk, and it's fairly safe for him

because he's this good at it.

He's not actually fearing death,

even though his family fears death.

And there is the possibility of death.

I also meant to ask Samson, I don't know how you get

something like that insured.

It seems impossible to put something like that

on live television and have a 0% chance

that you're not going to be televising a live death

in a way that we've never seen on television.

Well, last Seth Rollins.

But him climbing that skyscraper,

when I see the wind blowing his shirt,

and I see no ropes and no protection devices,

I'm filled with a queesiness that makes me not want

to watch it.

Like, I'm not the daredevil nature of it.

Like, I understand that it gets people to tune in,

but it's exactly the reason I don't want to tune in.

I don't want to feel like that when watching something.

I'm looking forward to talking to Elle,

because she relayed an anecdote where she says,

five minutes before they went live on Netflix,

the producer handed her a card of what she's to say

if he falls and dies.

Oh, I like that.

I was going to ask her about that.

Five minutes before.

What did Seth say?

What was Seth going to say?

We can't do an ad read if we're handed it

five minutes before.

That's wild.

Look, I saw it on mute, so I don't...

I would love to know how that went,

because I imagine so much.

I was a lot of personal stories,

but is there like two and a half hours of also like,

he's still going?

No, no, it was 90 minutes total.

They're at points talking to him throughout it.

Oh, really?

The scariest part, and then there are some people

in the climbing game.

I'm watching it.

Everyone I'm watching with, we are stressed.

So like this, it looks scary as shit,

but climber people on the internet,

I've seen videos of like compared to rock climbing.

This is like climbing a ladder.

Like there are people out there

that this was super easy, and that for him,

he wasn't stressed with this.

Ah, then, I mean, Seth knows about that.

El couldn't talk to him at the top,

which makes for an awkward...

Right, they lost in a few times.

Yeah, well, when you, how does it feel?

The scariest moments were when he would take a break,

and like go to the edge,

and just kind of like lean over and look.

Isn't the whole thing an edge?

No, but like, because there were parts where you get to,

like he got to like lofts.

There were like 10 different parts where you climb

up something scary, and then you're on a loft,

and then you have to climb up again.

So there would be times where he could just kind of stop and rest,

and those were the scariest parts.

He would literally go right up to the edge,

where he... It wasn't edge, it was Seth Rollins.

Yeah.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

I'm looking forward to talking to Al Michaels,

as well, later in the show.

I got to talk to Darren Waller for South Beach sessions.

It came out today, and...

You guys make fun of me for the tissues and stuff,

but one of the things that we're aspiring to do

with South Beach sessions, and this clip will not indicate it,

the rest of it will, is to get to a vulnerable place

with people who are happy and willing to do so

because they care to share their story.

Now, if you don't know Darren Waller's story,

it has addiction in it, and also he was really...

He went dark during his divorce

as a whole lot of people made fun of him

because he made a music video trying to express himself

about the hurt in that divorce.

And to me, it's super interesting to see and hear someone

built like that, who plays like that.

He's a mutant, right?

Like, everybody wants a tight end like this.

One of these guys who can run through the scene

and he can't be covered by smaller defensive backs

because he's just too big and athletic.

But he's... Here's Darren Waller talking about,

and I'd like to see him back with the dolphins

for a number of different reasons

because he's good at football, being chief among them.

But here's Darren Waller talking about the dolphins

and what the prospects might be for him returning next year.

He was the one in the middle I should remind people

of the exit meeting when Mike McDaniel was fired

by Stephen Ross and that exit meeting

ended in both Darren Waller's exit from the season

and Mike McDaniel's exit from the building.

This season was a bit of a disaster, not for you,

but for the team, right?

Everybody gets fired, and I don't even know

what your relationship right now is with football.

If you want to play again, if you want to play for the dolphins,

like if you've gotten to the place where...

No, I imagine how many touchdowns I could have

if I wasn't just coming off the couch

because I didn't know that I needed to do this a little better.

Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely...

Yeah, that's definitely a lot of what I've been thinking

throughout the season.

There was kind of like, I could feel myself drifting back and forth

between like, I feel like I could do this for however long.

And then it's like, you know, the injuries and frustrations

are like, I can't keep doing this to myself

and floating back and forth.

So now is like the time that I have to sit with both parts

and kind of have like a board of directors meeting

with both parts of me and be like, okay, like what...

What are we doing here?

Like let's look at the pros and cons of each of these directions

and we can make a decision from there.

But playing football again and starting to lay the foundation,

going somewhere, investing in my training

with professionals that can direct my performance

and have me able to take on that load

is something that I'm considering.

But yeah, this is a time for me to kind of reflect on it.

This time of season is exactly when not to ask football players

if they want to keep playing because none of them do

because their bodies are just busted up.

And so Jeremy was saying earlier that Drake May

in a human moment is saying to Josh McDaniel's man,

this is really hard and McDaniel is saying,

yeah, and all fulfilling things are hard.

But I don't think any of us listening to this

or even enjoying football sort of understand what price glory.

Like, okay, I love the gladiator glory and the money.

How much pain am I willing to endure daily when I get up?

Because everything hurts and I don't want to actually go to work

to go get what Sundays give me.

You guys, I think about this a lot just in like,

just very simply, you're making a tackle

and your hand gets caught between helmets.

That is the most like that happens all the time in football.

All their fingers are like sideways.

They can't hold change.

They can't like turn a car on with keys.

That's not automatic because of what happens to their fingers

because a very small thing that they'd laugh you off the field

if you came off the field for a dislocated finger.

Like, that's not they'd laugh you.

They you're not allowed to leave.

You need to stay out there.

Someone's going to take your job who will play

with the fingers all busted up if you run off the field.

Do you guys consider it all?

I know we all think, man, that must be fun on Sundays

or to play in the Super Bowl or to be at the height of that,

the gladiator glory.

Do you guys ever think at all about what you would trade

in terms of pain in order to have those things

that just about everybody wants?

Because the longer they make these seasons,

that college football season is crazy.

How long that is for college athletes.

It's crazy that Indiana just won more games in a season

than anyone since Yale in the 1890s

because nobody knew back then what the dangers of football were

and nobody knew back then what the commerce of football is

is that we all need more games.

The whole point of it is not actually to measure

and get a champion.

The point of it is make sure the games are on television

so that everybody gets their money.

Right. What's the question again?

Yeah. Like, are you asking how much physical pain

I would endure for my team to win?

For glory. It's not just physical pain.

No, for the, yeah, it's not just physical pain.

For the gladiator glory.

We all look, the idea of playing in the Super Bowl

is all of us would like to win the Super Bowl.

Everybody listening to this would like to be the reason

that the Super Bowl is won.

And I'm asking you how much pain

are you willing to endure?

Alex Handhold got paid $500,000 for what he did.

It's not enough.

It's obviously not enough.

It's about $500,000.

He was, I heard in every year with him

where he's like saying,

compared to what other people in sports are getting

for this, it's ridiculous.

But if he hadn't done it, somebody else would have.

They wanted to get the most famous guy at this

and so they could get him really cheap for that.

And I read him talking about how his wife feels about all it.

She doesn't want him to do any of it.

Free Solo, the movie was a great movie

because it wasn't just about him climbing a mountain.

It was about her trying to climb the mountain

of a relationship with a man who's crazy.

And he goes out and he risks his life all the time

and she's worried about it all the time

and he doesn't worry about it as much

because these people who do these things

can't measure consequences the way the reason,

the way the rest of us do.

And so we can't be them.

It's not possible to be them.

And so I'm literally asking you Mike,

how much pain would you be willing to endure

for the things that you want the most?

Physical pain mostly because I gotta think

that's the worst pain there is in football.

It's worse than the emotional pain.

I don't know if I'm the right guy to ask.

I did spring football and I was like,

this hurts, my coach sucks, I'm out.

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Don Lebatard.

Florida claws back from down to O,

because they were getting their asses

handed to them by Toronto

to then get lit a fire underneath them

by their head coach Paul Marise who did the thing.

Remember how the run spark was spark last year?

Still gots.

He called them a bunch of peas and bees.

He did the thing again.

Called them a bunch of peas and bees

and then boom.

Five unanswered.

You win the division.

This is the Don Lebatard show with this two cats.

You got me thinking now

they should have had just a regular person

climb that building.

That would have been interesting.

That would have been compelling.

Yeah.

Can you imagine if Roy did.

What if it's like the Hunger Games

and they had people lined up and they draw

like a number and you got to make clear that.

No, that's something.

There's 500 K.

There's a bag, 500 K at the top of the building.

That's where Seth Rollins could really come in handy

with analysis.

Cause you know, he's grabbed the briefcase.

The money in the pay.

A couple of times.

Yeah, I got the most money in the bank.

The most money in the bank.

Twice.

You remember the one in Santa Clara?

Yep.

It was Roman Reigns versus Brock Lesnar.

How about I was there this past summer

when he retired and he cashed in a month.

And he threw out the crutches.

He fooled everyone.

I was there.

Yeah, you were there.

I was there.

What a pop, huh?

Best night of wrestling I've ever been to.

Wow.

How many nights of wrestling have you been to?

A lot.

Yeah, a couple dozen.

Yeah, I'd say.

But you weren't at the WrestleMania or Seth cashed in.

Nah.

He's got the two best cash-ins, right?

What's he does?

Yeah.

What's your top five cash-ins?

Ooh, wow.

Well, those two for sure.

Let's do this.

Yep.

Let's do it.

Well, that's not how you do it.

You don't say those two for sure

and then make it a three.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll give you a time.

Okay.

In the interim, I would like to talk to you

about what you've been doing recently

with your television viewing habits

because I don't know if there is a more rewatchable show.

I love Breaking Bad.

There are any num- I love the wire.

I love a lot of television.

But I don't know that there's been in my lifetime

a more rewatchable show than the sopranos.

It's just very easy to check in at any point.

Like, you can do- I've done it twice now

and I've been tempted to do it a third time.

Really?

Because it's just so easy to watch

and it's fascinating to see ground zero on television

for the entire genre of suits

and all these other shows where the people can be bad

and you're still rooting for the bad people.

Like, it's to my recollection, it started there

as an art form and I've told the story before, right?

David Chase tells the story and spoiler alert

to any of you have not seen the sopranos

that it was very close to ending after season one

and he had to fight like hell thinking it was gonna end

because he's saying no, soprano, Tony soprano

needs to kill someone on screen.

He needs to be a murderer for me to tell

the rest of this story.

I wanna test people and see if they'll root for a murderer

for the rest of this story and HBO,

which pushes all the limits, did not want him to do that

and the show almost died after one season because of that

and so I can always watch.

I'll always stop on an episode of the sopranos

if it's just, if I don't do much scrolling anymore,

but if I'm scrolling, I will stop.

So two nights ago, I just finished my first ever rewatch

of the sopranos, all right?

I've been watching it again over like the past month

and a half, two months and I got through

the whole thing two nights ago and I hadn't seen it.

Like, you know, I'll stop every now and then like,

if it's a marathon, I'll watch an episode here and there,

but I just watch it straight through again

for the first time in probably 20 years, all right?

And I'll tell you, I had a very different experience

with that show this time around.

Obviously, incredible show, that's not gonna change,

but two things stood out the most to me.

Number one, the show is really funny

and I guess I didn't notice how funny it was

the first time around because the first time around,

I'm in my 20s watching it and just, I don't know.

And it's discovery, you're seeing something

for the first time and you're not used to something

like that being funny, so you wouldn't expect it to be funny.

You can't rewind it back then.

If we're talking like rewatchable, the goat of rewatching,

you gotta go lighter.

You guys are going way too stressful.

Give me sign felt every day of the week.

I like rewatching comedy.

I've never known your crazy.

The modern day is modern family.

The modern sign felt I can put modern family

any episode.

No, I want to watch the story.

If I'm rewatching, I'm watching a story again.

Well, by the way, sign felt that's the original

rooting for bad people.

Well, so two things that I noticed again

watching sopranos.

Number one, the show is really funny.

And number two, and this is more so what stood out to me,

I mean, I obviously knew it because he's on mob boss

and that's what the show is about.

It's about Tony and he's on mob boss

and everything that comes with it.

Thank you, Zeus.

But I, Tony's soprano was a real piece of shit.

And root form, that was like the thing about that show.

Yeah, and the first time watching, it's like,

yeah, like I'm obviously rooting for him

and I like this character and I don't want bad things

to happen to him and watching it now again,

I guess because I'm 20 years older

and like I'm a real grown up, he is a really, really bad person.

I think for me, the best rewatch was the office.

You can kind of put, they live individually,

but then as you watch them as a long narrative,

Michael falls in love, then falls out of love,

has a marriage and ends it, and then goes to find his love

somewhere else in Colorado.

Like that narrative and that story

kind of goes with all these different permutations

of the story and then comes back to like, tell that one main story.

For me, it scrubs and the evolution of JD's character

and his friendship would Turk and.

See, we go comedy, Zaz.

I don't get it.

I would never rewatch a comedy.

Goat of rewatchable.

This goat conversation is presented by Frank's Red Hat.

Make every dish the greatest.

Eat the goat.

Possibly.

That was a good sigh.

I mean, that was a good sigh.

He's been bad today.

Wow.

He's been really bad and he's known it

because he just leaked that never happened.

That's twice made.

He just left.

You were that one.

I'm going to write a note down.

OK.

Not one thing in particular.

It was just overall on the balance of the day he was bad.

Jeremy, gee.

That's a show I don't want to rewatch, Jimmy.

I want, I want to talk about a couple of the things

that you guys just brought up there.

Put on the pole, please, at Lebitard show.

Juju, is the sopranos really funny?

But when you talk about character evolution,

one of the things you will find interesting

if you rewatch the sopranos is how much James Gandalfini

changed the character from the first season to the sixth.

When I've read things about the soprano,

Gandalfini was very insecure and didn't think it was working

and thought he was bad the first season

as he was trying to find what the character had to be

because they were reinventing television.

But the thing that you guys are doing while I understand

is a different conversation than the one that I'm having.

All of the things you guys have mentioned

are exactly what it is that you check in on

and you're right when you call it light

if you just want a quick 20 minutes of something.

You don't want to invest in something large,

something that takes an investment of days or series.

Just give me 20, 30 minutes of something

and let me just have my cotton candy and be done with it.

And I understand the sopranos is not neat and tidy like that.

Yeah, that's heavy.

I like it's always sunny.

There isn't, it's always sunny in Philadelphia,

rave coming to town in like two days.

Wow, wow.

I'm interested in that.

Dayman with a beat drop, you kidding me?

Isn't there a big three championship celebration

or a block party around here somewhere?

We need to end up at some of these places,

like the weird things that come to mind.

Yeah, but they need me a little bit more access.

Come on now, you're the big three.

What I got, I need to be, I need to be,

you need to guarantee, we need to rub elbows with the people.

It's paying my, it's paying my her night.

You know, I need to get guaranteed access tomorrow.

Michael Beats is going to be there today.

I need to talk to, I need to talk to MB.

It's a block party.

They're doing a block party.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coconut grove, they're getting the ring.

Cudas, you know, a ring ceremony.

Yeah, this is how the town of USA.

Are you not aware?

Tony, did you say kudos or barracuda?

No, no, kudos.

That's what I call kudos.

I thought you were giving them kudos.

No, no, no, no.

I don't know.

Tipping your shoes.

No, court yard.

It's a beautiful street that they blocked off.

So now you can walk onto dogs,

got the big three championships.

Moriel, Chalmers, Michael Beasley, Reggie Evans.

You can ask him about, you know, getting hit by Chris Paul.

There's a lot of questions that I would have,

but I need guaranteed access against Katie Meyer night.

Put it on the pole, please.

Since we only have four categories,

give me the four categories it is that we're choosing.

Most rewatchable thing.

The sopranos, the office, always sunny.

Give me a fourth.

Give me a fourth.

Signed fell.

Glee, it's a good one.

Signed fell, it's just one of the most rewatchable.

It's a great show all time.

It's a great show.

I think it would be the word association for most people.

Rewatchable.

Signed fell.

Ken Burns, baseball.

Who was that character?

I was a great guy.

That's the way it was.

I was a great guy.

That's the way it was.

That's the way it was.

It's 10th birthday.

That's mine.

That's the way it was.

Here's why I object to the signed fell deri watch.

And by the way, sign fell, I think, is the greatest show

of all time.

I love sign fell.

Be careful.

I've seen every episode a hundred times.

But I've never sat and said, all right, season one, episode one,

and bang through all of them.

That's true.

Like binge like that.

Nobody does that.

No, you want specific episodes.

Right.

It seems to be having a different conversation, right?

What Chris is doing is just what do I want to chew on that doesn't have to have any

reference to before or after what I'm doing is not what I'm doing is what do I rewatch

the most?

No, but what Zaz is doing, you're going to beginning to end on six seasons of television.

I voted a month and a half of my talk.

I just did that with shameless.

If that's where you're asking.

Yeah.

That is what he's asking.

Yeah.

It's a different conversation.

You're just saying, what do I like to just check in on that's empty that I can watch

for 20 minutes.

No, Zaz is saying, what am I willing to invest a month and a half in every time I'm stopping

to watch television.

I'm going back to see the chronology of this.

Seinfeld's not that.

None of these other things, you guys have sex in the city is that I'm the only one.

Yeah.

You're not the only one.

I love sex in the right.

That's what I tell everybody.

Six feet under.

You're not the only one.

I like sex.

Did you like the new one?

No, it's terrible.

It's God.

The wife was very upset about the new one.

It's so disappointing.

It's so disappointing.

Like they keep doing it and it's terrible.

It's so, it's such an offensive remake from Mary.

I watch occasionally with my wife watches and I'll be in the kitchen watching like this

sucks, right?

Do you remember what she was doing?

I have a lot of questions for El Duncan.

I have missed her.

She has left sports center because this is what she wanted to be doing.

Something that was different had more free time around it.

I've seen a lot of people understand the amount of work that's required in Bristol.

Did I just get convinced by a sponsor to have an engaging conversation, which I hadn't

conviction?

Whoa.

By the way, really quick on the aside.

Second seat in sopranos where they had AI of Tony's mom, I didn't love that one.

You haven't gotten great yet at what is my inner monologue.

You haven't gotten great at the old guy watching.

No, no, I'm workshop and I need a voice modulator for it.

It's too, I need a very girly voice for your inner monologue, so I'm going to make that

happen.

Mine was good though.

It was not good, him being an old guy.

Never watch wings.

Hey, it's Mike Ryan and I want to talk to you about the random midweek hang that you

have with your friends.

Maybe it's an NBA game.

You get a text, hey, come over.

You want to watch the game and maybe you're like, ah, I don't know, I kind of just wanted

to stay home and then you think about it after your buddy hits you up and you know just

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Don Lebatard for weeks, months even, during the regular season.

I wondered, allowed, what Kevin Stenland did.

And then about three weeks ago, it hit me.

Stugats, he gives them one of these, and he gives them one of those.

This is the Don Lebatard show with his two gods.

Oh, hey, what's up Greg?

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Greg is not here.

That is El Duncan.

I think talking to Chris Cody and calling him Greg.

Oh, hey, what's up Greg?

And Chris Cody is still reeling from it.

It's probably not fair.

El Duncan has ascended, not unlike Alex Henneld to the heights of our world.

Her climb a little tougher though.

Yeah.

Yeah, more obstacles, more white men to get in the way.

You got a speed bump with Henneld, right?

Henneld.

I've seen you do it a couple of times.

Henneld.

It's her British.

Henneld.

Henneld.

Thank you, El, for supporting me, unlike these clowns who have been around me for 20 years,

who look like for any spot to be piranha.

I appreciate your support.

You're welcome.

She's the former longtime ESPN anchor.

She's now the lead host at Netflix.

She's also going to be doing USA Network inaugural season of the WNBA coverage for 2026,

alongside our friend, the great Renee Montgomery.

Thank you for being on with us.

Before we get to what it is that you did with Alex Henneld and skyscraper,

can you take us through your last couple of months moving places and leaving ESPN?

What was the difficulty of that?

What wasn't the difficulty of that?

Well, the tough part was the people because I really do try to make family wherever I go.

I've genuinely made a family with a lot of people that I worked with.

I loved doing Women's Basketball with Rey in Chennai.

That was incredibly fulfilling.

I think the tough part is leaving what's familiar and stability.

I have an entire family.

I'm 42 years old.

There was definitely that little doubt monster that was like,

you could work here forever and be fine.

I wasn't unhappy.

It's very easy to leave something that you hate that you're miserable.

Someone throws you a lifeline.

You'll take it.

It doesn't matter what it is.

That was really not the case.

Sometimes that's more difficult.

I spent a lot of time introspecting asking questions,

going to therapy, praying, doing all the things that people say, all the typical stuff.

But I would say that the not hard part was that Netflix was just giving me sort of all the things

that I had been asking for in the universe, which was more time with my family,

more time to sit and just be a creative, you know, and try to think of things

and more time to pursue things that were sports and sports adjacent.

The ability to just have a little bit more autonomy over the spaces and projects that I took on.

And so it was very easy when I got my contract offer and they were like,

30 days of work.

It was like hell, yes.

And that was the easy part.

But it's been really interesting when you leave something like ESPN.

You have a lot of existential build-up.

I think a lot of anxiety, but I got to be honest and like,

it's been so surprisingly wonderful the time with my family,

but also the idea that people were watching you,

that you didn't know were watching you.

People want to work with you, that you didn't think whatever would.

There's all these doors that are opening all of a sudden.

And so, you know, so far early returns are that like, I made the right decision.

Tell me about the anxiety monster and tell me about the whatever specifics you can.

About 30 days versus how many days, because I was just mentioning before you came on.

People really don't understand Bristol as a furnace for they will work you to the ground.

You work a lot.

And I get it.

They have a really big sports portfolio.

And I think that there is this sort of understanding amongst talent

that the more value that you have, the more volume that you take on, right?

So, like, you got to take on more things.

You got to take on specific things.

That's how you get paid.

Then once you get that contract, you know, if you want more money,

you have to justify it by doing more and doing more and doing more.

And, you know, let me be very clear.

Like, I was not a victim.

Like, they never forced me to do any of it.

I did it.

I chose to work all the time.

I chose to take on more and more projects.

I do believe that in many ways, I'm a recovering workaholic

and a place like ESPN, if you are a workaholic, will feed your addiction, right?

Like, there's all that you need there.

So, I'm no victim.

Like, I chose to do it.

All of us do.

We can say no.

But I just think like, I looked at it and the best, the ESPN knew that work life balance

was like really important to me too.

They tried their best in terms of like, what they could do

and still justify giving me this big pay raise.

And it netted out at about 250 days a year.

And Netflix was 30.

Yeah, Dan.

Dan, it's her inner monologue.

Just keep pushing.

Keep asking.

She'll bash ESPN eventually and we'll get what we want.

So, this is going really well.

Some grief over there.

Come on.

I see it.

Next question.

Come on.

One more ESPN question.

I think this is the one.

Don't even say ESPN.

Just hint at it.

Let her say ESPN.

You can work through it.

We can't.

We can't.

Come on.

The anxiety monster.

Yeah.

Good one.

I don't think of you as anxious.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I'm a high functioning anxious person.

Really, I'm very anxious.

I have a lot of anxiety.

It's honestly what sent me to therapy because it was giving me panic attacks a couple of

years ago.

I'm very, very, very anxious.

And I think all that anxiety really showed up in skyscraper if I'm being honest.

When I get anxious, I talk fast.

I talk through things.

And it was in a really high cortisol situation.

And man, I was feeling it.

I was amped.

I was juiced.

So, take us through that experience with skyscraper.

Have you ever been, you're not that kind of anxious.

I would imagine because you're not televising broad live, you know, broadcasting live a possible

death.

That's why people are watching really.

I mean, it is that it's possible.

And so, take us through that compared to anything else you've ever done.

Yeah.

It's not like anything I've ever done.

I mean, ever.

Just because like, you know, when you do a pregame, like certainly I've had like sort of that, you know,

you're doing something for the first time.

You have all of this like energy, you're like, and we're here, right?

But you have commercial breaks, like you have like time where you're not talking.

And it really does sort of like lower some of that energy a little bit and get you in a sweet spot, right?

Like you have time to like take a deep breath.

I think in that situation, it was the first time that I was obviously covering something where there were real implications of death, like true ones.

It was the first time that someone five minutes for broadcast handed me a card that was like,

if this person falls off the building, here's what you're going to say, and then we're going to get off air.

And then I had honestly like built a report, Alex.

I went out to his home.

I like hung out with him and his wife.

I played on the kitchen floor with his like little daughters.

Like I had built an affection for him.

And it was like, you know, we all knew he was like confirmed control of this.

But you anything can happen.

We're in Taiwan.

There could be an earthquake.

Like there was just a lot of anxiety.

And I think for me, like when I went back and watched it, I was like, oh man, I started out at a tin.

And then I just stayed at a tin like the entire, the entire time.

So I think, you know, it was tough because like nothing like this has ever happened before.

We really didn't know what the broadcast would look like.

We didn't know like there was no blueprint.

So we were a little bit of like a science experiment, you know, and, and, and I think that we would all do things different.

But I think for me specifically, yeah, I would absolutely do it very differently if I, you know,

had another crack at something like this.

Although again, it's like, when am I great that I took some notes down next time a guy climbs a skyscraper.

Exactly how to compartment, to comport myself.

But, you know, I, I do hope that like, you know, my tone, which was, was definitely off.

You know, I mentioned it a couple of times.

Like, I was sort of broadcasting to the people that were there on the park with us.

You know, that were loud and cheering and like, into it and gasping.

And like, there was so much energy.

But when you go back and watch the broadcast, right?

When you're of the viewer, like, there's none of that energy is coming through.

Only tension, you know, and only like drama.

And these beautiful scenes and this man dangling off a cliff and like, all of that was enough, you know.

And so I went in with an objective to like, teach the world about Alex Honnold.

But like, it just really wasn't necessary in that moment.

And it's not something that you can know until you look back on it.

And unfortunately, you know, like, it wasn't my best.

I don't think I stuck the landing completely.

But it was a really, really, really tough thing that I'd never done before.

And I was willing to, you know, take a chance and see, you know, how it would go.

And so, you know, I'm proud of myself for that for like doing something that had never been done before.

And just being a part of, you know, someone's history making climb, like that was really cool.

What did the card say?

It literally was like, what did I say?

It was like, we've experienced a fall.

And so we're going to cut the live stream right now.

We'll update you as soon as we can on Alex's condition.

That is an odd thing to give you for the first time, five minutes before something.

I knew we were going to do it.

I knew we were going to do it.

No, I knew we were going to do it.

It just like I, you know, it was sort of going to be one of those things that they were going to like pop in.

We had a 10 second delay.

We were going to cut away to a wide shot.

They were going to pop this statement up in a prompter.

So I knew we were going to do it.

I just hadn't seen it, right?

Until like right before I was going on air.

And it was like just a reminder of like, this is your card.

A prompter doesn't get there.

This is what you'll say.

So it was just another sort of reminder.

And like again, that has nothing to do with like, you know, me being at a level that was just not.

Sustainable for two straight hours.

Um, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it was a really high pressure situation in general.

Um, I also think that like it felt very celebratory.

Like again, the tension at home didn't feel that way there.

It felt like Alex is like laughing and he's smiling and he's playing the crowd is playing into him.

And they're waving on him.

It just felt very different when I was there.

And it was a reminder like you're not broadcasting for the, you know, 900 people that were in front of you.

But rather for the six million people that were at home.

So, um, you know, tough lesson to learn in front of the world.

You know, but like, it's okay.

I've been dunked on before.

But you're being very critical and very hard on yourself.

And as you do so, Zazlow is red faced with laughter from Tony.

Something Tony is saying.

I mean, Dan, how could the update will update you as soon as we can?

How could the update on him fall and be anything other than death?

Well, there were some ledges.

There were time when he was climbing and he could have fallen to a ledge that wasn't all the way down.

Yes, that's exactly right, Chris.

And he said that.

He was like, you know, at certain places in the building, I'm going to, it would be certain death.

But at some places, he could fall on a ledge, a balcony.

There were boxes.

Like, there, there was a way that he could maybe live.

But like, we all know.

Zaz, you are red faced with laughter because you and Tony were doing your own show over there.

And which like, the report is going to be like, well, update you when he, when we come back on.

And you guys are saying, well, he's splatter.

He's a hundred, he fell a hundred story.

Okay, there's a ledge.

So he would hit his head on the way down.

I hit his head from 20 stories.

It's not.

All right.

There were like, like, nobody, I get it.

But if you fall from 20 stories, it's not.

No, you're right.

They kept saying on the thing.

They're like, I know you might think, but 100 falling, 100 feet.

The same thing is falling from the top.

You're being very hard on yourself.

Are you normally this hard on yourself?

Or was the feedback bad?

Like, I don't like what you're doing here.

I thought that what I heard of what you were doing was great.

But you're going to have a higher standard for yourself than I am.

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I really do, do not go to social media to like, illicit feedback.

Because I just think like, either way, people are always wrong.

Like, you're never as good as they say you are.

You're never as bad as they say you are, right?

But I, so I wanted to write away.

Just go watch it.

Once we got down with all our posts up, I went back and watched it.

And right away, I was like, ooh, I was on the 10.

And then, you know, like, yeah, like people are sliding onto pictures

and being like, oh, my God, you were so annoying.

You were like, so it's not like I'm like doom scrolling on Twitter.

And, you know, and I'm not a masochist, like seeing all the negative things

that people are saying.

But I, I mean, I am critical of my work, especially as I'm moving into a stage

Dan where I'm going to be trying new things.

You know, I didn't need to go break down an episode of Sports Center.

I did it every day for 10 years, right?

But with things like this, like, if I really want to grow

and I want to get better and I want to try different things,

then I have to give myself real feedback.

And that was my real feedback, like, you know, a full acknowledgement

that sometimes I think people are just mean for the sake of being mean.

And there's things that I've done that people dunk on,

and I stand on it, and I'm like, I don't care.

I thought that shit was funny, or I liked it, or I don't care.

But this was one of those where I was like, I could see.

I could see.

Like, I get it, you know, they're not, they're not, they're not wrong.

So yeah, but it's all good.

Like, I don't, I have the spine for this, Dan, right?

Like, which is the only reason that I'm willing to put myself into position

to keep trying things I've never done before,

and seeing if I'm any good.

Oh, I know, I know you have the spine for it.

It's why I'm surprised that you're anxious,

because none of that presents on television.

You are one of the most, like, you present as one of the most confident people

I have seen in sports television.

We don't have as much time with you as I'd like.

All my goals is going to be on with us.

And we've got pitch clock coming on later.

El Duncan with us here.

I have some fill in the blank questions for you

because I have a ton of questions.

Okay.

How much did it freak you out communicating with Alex during the climb?

I asked him ahead of time.

Are you sure you want to talk to me?

He was like, yeah.

And like, in fact, we were only going to talk to him once.

He was like, you just don't want to talk to me once.

You don't want to talk to me more than that.

I was like, if you want to talk more than that, go for it.

But it was cool.

What percentage of chance did he think there was of him actually dying?

I don't know about percentage.

He told me it was a six probably in terms of difficulty of climb.

And, but...

Have 100?

Physically.

Six out of 10.

But in terms of, like, you know, physical difficulty, it was up there.

I don't know.

He probably would have put it out of less than one percent chance just because he was very confident.

Tell me, explain.

Every floor, he seemed like there were people at the, like, was that planned?

Because I feel like that was...

I was getting on my couch with my friends.

And I'm like, hey, stop distracting him.

They're waving.

They're trying to get his attention.

That, to me, felt like maybe that was like a crack in the production.

And, like, they weren't expecting people to gather there.

On every floor, he had, like, fans cheering for him.

It seemed very distracting.

He was fully aware.

And when he did practice climbs, that is a public building.

There's, like, businesses there.

So, he would climb and people would wave at him that whole time.

So, he knew and he enjoyed it.

Like, he said afterwards.

He was like, I was, I tried to give a guy a high five,

but he was too busy being on his phone.

It was not distracting.

He didn't know if it would be.

He's never free-so-lowed something with people.

But it was a public building.

So, like, we didn't stage people there.

They were just there.

How many milligrams, Chris?

Oh, dude.

I was so nervous.

Do you have any idea how this event is insured?

None.

But I will say this.

I have a couple of times Googled Lloyds of London.

Because I feel like they're probably one of the only.

It was tough.

The chairman of the building, you guys, after it finished,

she came up to the green room and she burst into tears

when she hugged Alex.

Because, like, her job was on the line.

Like, a lot of people's jobs were on the line.

A ton.

I don't know how they made this happen.

But they did.

They could have never done it in the States.

It's not.

It's just not.

You can't get it insured there.

So, maybe some Taiwanese insurance.

I don't know.

What is the second most scared you've been for a broadcast?

The second most scared.

Ooh.

That's a good one.

You know what?

Scared is not the right word.

But I would say equally sort of like, you know,

how to take a couple deep breaths was before the National

Championship, uh, Caitlin Clark versus South Carolina.

Just because I knew that thing was going to pull a freaking

number.

And, you know, we had had a lot of like attention.

The big three and whatnot.

And I just really felt a lot of pressure to perform.

So, um, but again, when you're in situations that you've

been in a million times, even when you're anxious,

you just lean on experience.

When you don't have any experience in that situation, you know,

you don't have anything to lean on.

Always nice seeing you.

Thank you for making time for us.

Love you guys.

Don't make it so long next time.

See you later.

Okay.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.