Hour 3: Phil Simms on Dexter Lawrence & Which QB the Jets Should Target

From 30 for 30 podcasts.

Brian Patta, senior defensive lineman from Miami.

Gunned down.

The key to this case, it's Brian.

What?

It's right there.

A hour before he died, he was on a phone arguing what's about.

This might be a hit.

You want the truth.

They just want a conviction.

Press your wrist.

We had a killer amongst us.

Murder at the U.

Listen now.

This is the part in Carlin podcast.

Listen live morning's it's end on excuse

New York and streaming live on Youtube.

I am Chris Carlin.

He is bardzo Life and Atnoon.

It means what?

It's the Bahááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááá

And at noon at noon on Wednesdays, it also means that it's time for the sims spotlight.

This is the sims spotlight.

And go, go, go, go, go.

With former Giants quarterback Phil Sims on part in Carlin.

As he joins us each week leading up to the draft, breaking down prospects,

and taking a look at guys who might be good fits for the jets and Giants.

He is Phil Sims, who joins us now.

Mr. Sims, once again, good afternoon. How are you?

Hey, Don, well, good to hear you guys and everything and Bart.

I guess when you went on vacation, that voice of yours just got louder and stronger and more annoying.

I found my pupils, baby. I'm from Zimona.

I'm making sure where did you go on vacation?

I went to Senegal. I went to Nigeria. Then I went to the Ivory Coast.

Then I a little pit stop in Perry, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, it's Phil. It's like it's like a tripped out of Long Beach Island.

Wow.

Well, you know, a lot of you can make those kind of vacations when you got a lot of money and Bart's got it.

So good spend some of it.

No, I'm all on the budget. Hey, Phil, I wondered this because you look good in the suit.

You know, you make sure you do your pushups and your benches or your pecs are impeccable.

Have you ever thought about being in upper management and taking your football acumen?

To the offices of the Giants and start kind of telling what they want.

Because anybody can do a better job than Joe Shane.

Oh, no, don't say that. Joe Shane lives up the block from me.

Got quite a few guys that he has drafted.

They've been there and it's not all I've never.

Do anything with the Giants like that?

Because his bill parcel said to me is I've told you since whenever they ask you your opinion, never answer.

And I said, why? He goes because they really don't care.

Shane Shane doesn't have Shane doesn't have a pod in his garage in his driveway, do we?

What's that he has a why he does that he has a pod in his driving.

Basically, he's saying how long Shane's going to be around anyway.

Yeah, now listen, they're set up.

I really I hear it too much on TV, which worries me everybody thinks the Giants.

I'll team next year and man, those are big expectations to come from where they were last year to play off.

I understand it somewhat, but I think they have a really good chance or a good opportunity here to fix their team a little more with the draft.

And of course, find a way to keep that really big dude in the middle on your team.

So let's talk about that. Let's start there with with Dexter, large fill.

What is your take on this whole situation?

Well, you know, listen, I never get into this too much about it.

But yeah, he wants more money probably deserves more money as you look at the market, which I haven't looked at that closely.

Just heard people talking about it, but you know, Dexter Lawrence.

Yeah, was it a good year for him last year? No, it was not, but he was coming off.

I for a big guy, I can't imagine anything worse than having a foot problem.

So, you know, I was a training camp. He really couldn't do any work there.

Get you off to a slow start and all that, but I'm sure motivation, wanting more money, all that.

I'd be very surprised at the giants trading. Keep him there.

You got a new organization going. Keep one of your really good players and hope that this new organizing the coach to general manager everybody.

You know, we can quit talking about some of that and have a successful year as a football team.

But you know, Phil, we saw this with Quinn and Williams. And when you start to try and reboot your team and have young players come in,

when you think about Isaiah, likely coming in dark, scatable, these are all young players.

You know, he's about Dexter's probably about two years from hitting the 30, 30 mark.

And you know how they start looking at you rather than that.

Would it be best to try and get assets for him and see if you can plug that player for a while?

Because I believe that the jets are going to be better off without Quinn and Williams with the draft equity that they got.

And this is opportunity for the giants to sell high because it's always that opportunity that player who has so much influence.

Could if he's a squeaky will can kind of derail.

Things going on with a new coach is trying to change the program because they got to get rid of a lot of players.

So that they had his roster looked the way that Harball envisions it and not what they ball looked at as.

Yeah, you know, less I understand all that, you know, but you know, Dexter Lawrence, these big guys, it's hard to find people that are players that have the size, the skill and everything else.

And to draft a young defensive lineman like him, if that's what you're sure not to do, you know, I remember hearing this from the coaches at many times.

Besides the quarterback position, playing interior defensive line is the hardest thing to learn and to do in the NFL because in college, it's pretty much straight ahead.

And the pros hell, they're hitting you from everywhere and you don't know which what's going on sometimes.

And so I don't know, I hope they keep him and, you know, settle this and, you know, there's one way to sell that's money.

But I don't Bart and Chris, I hope if they can get an unbelievable package coming back, if they do trading, then I understand.

But to me, it has to be really big time, look what we got for this. That's why we did it.

Phil Sims is with us as he is each Wednesday leading up to the draft in the same spotlight.

We have spent a lot of time talking about Thai Simpson, but I want to talk about another guy that the Jits had a meeting with as a quarterback who might be available is going to be available a little bit later.

But in talking to evaluators, including you, all seem to think that he can be an NFL quarterback and that is Carson Beck fill lay out the case for me with Carson Beck.

Oh, listen, Carson Beck, as time goes on, you know, I have not talked to anybody about it really, but I just think it makes more and more sense that he's going to be the guy that the Jits should target.

And for many reasons, one size, he is a big dude, he moves around a little better than people giving credit for.

He does have a big arm and he's going to run an offense. If he goes to the Jits, he's going to run an offense is kind of similar to the University Miami, which they ran.

And it wasn't all about the quarterback down there in Miami, which makes it a little tougher. It was, oh, we got, you know, a head coach that was an offensive lineman in college.

Oh, and he's, you know, loves his offensive lineman and the game kind of went through that.

So it's a tougher way to play not as many easy throws, but I think what he ran in college will fit what the Jets are going to probably do on the offensive side.

And, you know, I told you this, Chris and Bart, I just say it is that Carson Beck was kind of going through everything in Georgia.

He gets hurt. It's taken away from me that had to be emotionally just killing me. He goes to Miami. He turns into me like a new guy.

You could see a little more enthusiasm, body language, and he had to run an offense. It had to be really precise and read and do the right thing.

And I think he answered all those those questions. So we'll see where it goes from there. But I'm one of these guys this time has gone along.

I'm thinking more and more about Carson Beck, you know, being a really good solid NFL quarterback.

It's interesting, Phil.

The idea of Beck getting away from Georgia and going somewhere else. We talk about that so much else in the NFL when guys get to a new place.

And they just need to, you know, be in just a new surroundings. And this happens here for him with the way the portal is now for quarterbacks in particular.

How tricky is that to to know that where you're going to go is going to be good for your development?

Well, I'm sure he had, you know, one is about money going there. That's of course the case.

But I think that yeah, he looked at what they were going to do. I'm sure Mario crystal ball was telling him how this offense was going to run and he was okay with that.

And you know, when something's taken away from you, you realize what how much you loved it. And when I say that, that's about him.

And maybe he took some of this, you know, I'm not saying he took it for granted at Georgia. But when he got hurt, knew he was never going to be part of that team again.

You know, you, you reflect. And he's just going, well, the next one I'm going to do.

Do it the right way. I understand he loves the game. And I think a lot of those things they all showed him when you're watching play.

How much of those that adversity that he faced prepares him for a market like, you know, a market like New York, being that, you know, the most popular person on the team and you've experienced this is the backup quarterback.

But then when you get that opportunity, it's a lot to handle.

Yeah, you know, Bart, I think that what we just talked about kind of answers that question. I think he is definitely mentally, physically and all that, whatever you want to say, he's tough and up.

I mean, he's, he's got some armor on him now. So he's going to be able to, I think handle some of the criticism that's going to come to the quarterback, no matter what you do and how you play.

And it's mostly with the depth and their recent history of quarterback play down there. You know, fans are looking at that and like a lot of teams.

If it doesn't work, they're going to blame the quarterback position. But I think what he's endured, Georgia, to Miami, championship game, losing it, whatever, that just has to make you more motivated and hopefully to turn him even into a better player.

The same spotlight Phil Sims with us each and every Wednesday at noon leading up to the NFL draft.

Running backs, Phil, we've talked a lot about Jeremiah love. You're a big fan. What about the running backs that are behind him? Are there guys that you in evaluating them? Do you feel like could be good fits here?

Well, you know, good fits. I don't know which way to look at that. Yeah, listen to Darian Price. I play that Notre Dame behind Jeremiah love and it's hard to tell which one's going to be the first round draft pick when you look at both of them, you know, back to back.

And there are some really good running backs out there. The jets, you know, if they get a guy like to Darian Price, then they've hit a home run. I think and where will he go on the draft, you know, probably the second round, maybe late first.

That's kind of kind of hard to believe that you get two running backs on the same team where they're both going to be.

You both have all the talent to be franchise running backs. And you also know that there's not as much like that guy has not run nearly as much as not as much mileage on them.

Well, that's true too. You know, I think that's always something you have to look at when you're drafting these running backs. You know, you, the thing about it is, just look at asking Jesse goes to the Raiders and Chris, I told you this too.

And then let's look at Kalmanunga. Oh, seventh round pick, the Chicago Bears ran for seven hundred eighty three yards. I just had to look at the numbers right in front of me.

I mean, look, what is the difference? So we're talking about a much get running back. He's going to be all time. And then we go and get a guy drafted in seventh round.

And he finds this way to be a special player for the Chicago Bears and how they're using and who he really was and access get the ball and run over anything that's in front of you.

And it really worked for him. So that, so saying all that while I'm saying it, it's man drafting running backs really high. It scares me because of the injuries.

And I just think too, would you look at running backs? There's a lot. There's a group. It's all kind of bunch together where you can be successful with one of many of these guys coming in the draft.

So are you eliminated? Maybe the possibility that maybe Jeremiah love could be like that home run hitter that Harball has always had with King Henry Ray Rice, you know, those upper echelon type of players.

And you look at the recent drafts, you know, I know the history here with Sequan, you know, going at a high. I don't think nobody would say that that was the wrong pick.

Seeing how good he was, but do you, we, how would you think about, you know, if they went and got, you know, Brian Thomas and, you know, on draft day and was able to pair him with Jordan love, how was that changed his offense?

Well, listen, if they draft Jeremiah love, I'll just, I'll be a giant fan and go great. Okay, it's, it's simple. He could be, he could have a year like Sequan Barclay did or what his effect and productivity with the Giants how it went and what we saw down in Philadelphia, of course.

So, yeah, I'm not saying it's a big gamble, but you know, when I just look at it and all that, if there's another team out there that's willing to give you a lot of stuff for that draft pick, because I think he will be sitting there when it comes around with the Giants that that something you have to think about and, you know,

but draft in the running by kindness, it being honest, it does care me because the injury rate is just so prevalent and you do that. It gets Nick gets hurt, not the player that you want. Then you, of course, the second guest and comes out from out from all of us.

Phil, last one. That makes it. It does. It absolutely does. And we're both. Exactly. And nobody gets hit more for sure. Phil, last one for me on the defensive side with an individual guy. And that's Rubin Bane. So we had at the, at the combine, all the talk about the short arms T-Rex. And yet, now everybody, you hear these weeks in between. Now everybody seems to be going back to, well, look at all the production.

Yeah, this time between the combine and the draft, how seriously do teams take all of this and how can it affect how you look at a guy like Rubin Bane, who is disruptive, is could be.

Well, you know, I really have done one thing this year, not really asking anybody that I know that's in the league and give me your opinion on this and that and all that. All I know is, and we talked about it. I think last week, Bart Rubin Bane.

And now I hear more and more stuff coming up that they don't talk about the short arms and just talking about how really good he is, which we talked about last week. And it's really interesting.

And you have the combine, all this of the stuff, you know, the teams and the people that are, you know, working on this draft, they're not going to get involved or really go, wow, I saw someone in TV today talked about that. I think we better change our mind.

And that's the last thing they're going to do. So the football people, the coaches, all the evaluators in the NFL, now it's kind of over and they realize Rubin Bane, oh my gosh, damn, he's really good.

And not only that, he shows it. And just a little passing comment here, the defense for the Miami Hurricanes look like a pro defense.

And I'll tell you the other thing, they're offensive blind. It was like prototypes all the way across to. So the University of Miami is doing a hell of a job of bringing the right guys into that program. That's for sure.

Phil, great stuff as usual. We will talk to you again next Wednesday. We're only two weeks away now at this point.

Thank God.

Appreciate it, man. Yeah, good to see you embark.

Good to have you back, man. All right.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Phil.

The great Phil Sims, given us some terrific insight leading into the draft here in a couple of weeks. So with that in mind, the stuff from Phil, I told you yesterday that each week,

or each day, I would give you a little nugget from one of the people that I talked to leading up to the draft around the league, around college football, about different prospects.

Now, as I said earlier, I do not talk to head coaches in college because head coaches in college when they're talking about their own people are just trying to sell them as much as they can.

They're trying to get those guys drafted as high as they can because it's going to help them in recruiting.

So I'll give you a few guys based on an executive NFC the other day who I talked to and you tell me what your take is on them.

Number one, on Jeremiah Love, just a notch below Jemeer Gibbs, just a notch below Jemeer Gibbs, but he does have holy blank acceleration.

So if I told you below, listen to what I'm saying, a notch below Jemeer Gibbs is that worth the fifth overall pick.

And that's one evaluation, but if you felt that way, is that worth the fifth overall pick if you're the giants?

I would say it depends on how confident you are on your line.

Now, we know that you have arguably, or you know, you have a Hall of Fame fullback that's going to be eyes and ears that's going to get him to the second level.

And if you talk about that type of acceleration, you know, you look at Baltimore and what they were able to do with Derek Henry, Derek Henry is a great running back.

He doesn't have that type of Jemeer Gibbs type of acceleration.

So if you're talking about, I have a great fullback that can get my guy to the second level, the easiest way to get productivity to turn around a hand, the football off instead of having to drop back and try and complete a pass, which is a lot harder.

He absolutely is worth that.

You got to think about what you just invested in.

You just invested in the fullback because you want to run the football.

We talk about Greg Roman and all his history as far as being able to have some of the best overall rush yardage, right?

And Jackson Dart already was used as a weapon last year.

But he's not Lamar Jackson, but he can hold the backside linebacker.

He's a threat to pull the ball as well.

That's going to create more seams and more lanes.

And instead of getting 10 to 12 yards with a guy like Scataboo, with a guy like Love, that can be a home run explosive plays.

I like Sequan Barkley, I like Jameer Gibbs, I like B. John Robinson.

You know, he absolutely is somebody that I would consider in putting a football team together because you know that you can't ultimately overload the box.

It's extremely even with Derek Slating because if neighbors is back, that's the guy that you got to roll the safety tool, which means that you're going to have like boxes to run against.

But then you have to deal and you're going to be in the tiger personnel all the time because you have likely and you have Theo Johnson.

So now you're going to have enough blockers to get a hat on the hat.

And the record is the guy that moves the crowd.

I definitely would think about that.

The only issue is I wish if they ultimately for me, you trade, you trade Dexter Lawrence and you get Brian Thomas.

Now you got two guys on the outside.

Now you dancer can't put eight men in the box.

And you got and you got a record who can play as the tight end.

Sometimes he lines up at tight end on the line.

But he's back to the fullback just getting ahead start.

Instead of line up in the backfield and being the eyes and ears for all this pool redirects.

The Ravens had the most complex run game in the history of football with all the different personnel groups.

All the motion shifts and pools, double pools, unbalanced lines.

And if you get a home run hitter like that, where it's hesitation and they're afraid of you on the outside.

Man, this thing can be real good, real bad, real fast.

The only problem is you still have to be able to stop somebody on the other side of the ball.

Okay, the other one I will give you is a couple of the tackles because there's been discussion among people that the tackles that are high end guys are actually guys that would end up moving inside.

Maui Noah from Miami, who of course is Kiko Maui Noah's brother.

This is what he had to say about him.

He's going to play tackle for someone.

He's not going to move inside to a guard because he's too good.

He will have growing pains year one, but he is going to be a tackle.

Reminds me of Mimbo.

Okay, very aggressive, very great.

He's a people mover in the run game and kind of putting him in that guard is kind of bearing him high in his talents.

I thought he was good enough on the outside too.

Well, this was the one that caught my attention because I have not heard this on the flip side.

I had heard a lot about Maui Noah moving the guard.

Yeah, I know Spencer Fano.

Yeah, he says him.

I see moving the guard because he's smaller.

Yeah, he's a smaller guy.

So well, he actually is not.

Yeah, he's only like three, three, eleven, six, six.

Yep.

Kind of built like tip.

It's about 25 pounds smaller than Maui Noah, but the same height.

Exactly.

So to be interesting too.

And he's been a rumor to kind of take the place of lender bomb in the inside.

So moving in, moving him in because they got put the Ravens.

Take in pre-agency.

They, they, somebody, oh, they brought John Simpson back.

He may stay attacked though for for the Ravens as well.

And they may have to just try and fatten them up a little bit.

Go down to eat some blue, some soft blue crap.

Last one.

I'll give you a receiver.

So there are so many receivers in the draft, right?

A guy in the second round to look at.

And this is Chris Bell from Louisville.

Okay.

Chris Bell from Louisville.

Torres ACL late in the year.

Quote.

If he wasn't injured, he would be in the top 10.

Hmm.

He will not make it out of the second round.

Even with this injury, he's too good.

Yeah.

People that know, no.

So injuries and guys look for this type of value.

You see guys get picked up.

Like, why is this guy getting picked up just like the cornerback from Tennessee.

He's going to go because he was injured the whole year.

But everybody knows that he said.

And he said about him that if he wasn't injured,

he would have been the number one corner.

And he would have been the top 10 pick.

Not the key from LSU, right?

Mazda or something like that.

Delane.

Mansour Delane.

Yeah.

Mansour Delane.

Oh, I forgot this one because this is one of your favorite guys.

You've talked about this guy a lot.

Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech, the linebacker.

Baller.

You want that?

And you want this?

And Baller was the first word this guy used.

You can run too.

Day one starter.

Love him.

Really good.

People knock on his athleticism.

But let me tell you, this is a linebacker in every way.

He's a geekly.

But you know, you reminds me of.

You know that he came in as a quarterback?

Quarterback.

Like a quarterback slash receiver.

Yeah.

His first year.

And he went to UVA for a year.

And a question is that lesson.

He played receiver.

Like, you see, you see him saying,

yeah, make it make sense.

So you mean that guy was running in college, not high school.

He was going to freshman in college.

He was playing reserve quarterback receiver.

Running back tight end.

Right.

So at practice, this dude is running seven routes.

Come back.

Hitching goals.

And you tell me he's not athlete.

Yeah.

He's like athletic enough to play linebacker.

How about that?

I tell you what, go take your linebacker on your team.

Put his ass out at receiver and tell him to get off a jam from a,

from a cornerback and run a seven route or a go route.

So the guy puts on the weight.

He's played a two 30 and he was a monster.

He ran a four five one.

Yeah.

At the comment.

What are we talking about?

He ran a four five one.

What are we talking about?

You know who you're reminding.

That kind of guy.

If you're not taking sunny styles for the jets.

Yes.

You know who he reminds me of.

Hmm.

Sean Lee.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Short shorter guy.

Okay.

Sean Lee was a ball.

He just can stay healthy.

Barton Carlin.

ESPN, New York.

In moments.

Am I the nozzle or am I the.

Tool?

Well, it could be either.

But the answer is probably yes.

Hey sports fans.

The ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place.

The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events.

ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service.

And now you can check.

If you already have ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package.

For no additional cost visit activate dot ESPN dot com.

To learn how to access your account.

Or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app.

It's all the ESPN all in one place.

Sign up or activate now.

Why the hell do you care about it?

I don't know.

And here's the thing.

Six for a dollar.

By the way, on the Apple tags.

Never found it.

Never found it.

Because the thing never said.

Oh, it's right next to you because you're supposed to be able to push a button.

And it plays a sound.

Do you know how first of all first of all.

There's nothing more loud in silence.

So like been out there.

You know how, especially if that thing is underneath like the grass.

Yes.

That thing ain't go admit no damn loud enough noise.

But every time she got close to it.

It said, no, you're actually 600 feet away.

Like what are we doing here?

It was a complete disaster.

So no, we didn't find the tags.

And people are talking about how like the runaway dog is their scared thing.

It wasn't even that she ran away.

She didn't.

She was back at the house.

It was just the tags.

For some reason, I got into my head that these tags were important.

You press them at pet mark for $2 out the little thing that you put the name in.

You twist.

It's not even that tag.

It's the.

It's the.

It's not even the apple.

I'm telling you what your name is.

The license.

No, but it wasn't even that.

It was the license.

It was the dog license and the rabies thing.

And I'm thinking like, oh, that's a big deal.

No, it's not.

Just tell you a bit of print enough.

She's got a chip in her.

I just want to be able to find her myself.

Yeah, but I'll happen to go.

It's just.

You got scale of one to 10, Ray.

How much did your opinion drop of me in terms of being an idiot?

On that scale right there, like tell 10.

Carlin's a genius.

One.

He's a moron.

Right.

Well, we're clearly not going 10, but I'm not one on you.

You just the phone issue.

That was the thing.

Yes, there should have been a phone swap.

Right.

And I don't know.

She swears that she said to me, do you want to take my phone?

And I said, no, I'm going to 10 because who cares about the damn apple tag anyway?

It's a great point.

It's a great point.

Did they come in a pack of six, man?

Like, how would I not put myself through that for a $20 thing?

Your time.

Your time is worth more than that $20 tag.

Tom.

A hour and a half.

Level of moron.

One being incredible moron.

10 being genius.

Oh, I meant one.

Yeah, I know you meant one.

That's all right.

I screwed up the whole scale anyway.

I'm showing once again that I'm a moron.

Yeah.

You screwed up the scale.

You screwed up the moment.

I'm probably leaning towards more moron here.

Let's put down the seven on the scale there.

Luckily, nothing terrible happened.

But that was a scary situation that, honestly, I hope you look back on it in time.

And you both have a good laugh about it.

You would love to think that that would be the case.

But I was not in a laughing place on the way home.

She kind of was already.

I was not.

I was kind of like, nope, not there yet.

As evidence by my sleep problem.

You guys didn't share like a Christmas song on the way home, maybe?

Oh, she was belting them out because she wanted to make sure I could hear something.

And she's all could she think of?

But why is a Christmas song?

Was it Jiggle Bell?

She was just singing.

She was just singing so that there was a loud noise.

And it was all she could think of at the moment.

Oh, all I want for Christmas is to go away from you.

No, the crazy thing is, she was probably singing the lowest song on the Christmas side.

You can see.

Oh, you can't get it in a loud song.

First of all,

when did my wife start singing her Barry White?

Everybody that sings that song comes off low.

Sing solid night, Tom.

Tom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Silent.

Well, that's not what she was singing.

It's a low.

It's a low song.

Regardless.

I don't care who sings it.

I think she was singing Jiggle Bells.

I don't know.

Jiggle Bells.

It was a disaster of a night.

You know, I went Jiggle Bells because you have to be happy to sing Jiggle Bells.

I'm guaranteed she's pissed off.

She was not.

I'll tell you.

She could have been a lot more ticked off that I did not take her phone.

That she asked me if I wanted the phone and I said no, which I do not remember.

I do not remember that.

But she could have been a lot more ticked off because then she's like, why would he send me off in the distance with both phones?

And then I'm thinking in her mind once she says that.

Oh, she thought I was setting her up and this is going to end up being a low and order episode.

Or, you know, basically one of those first 48 type stories.

It was like, hey, on a carnival cruise.

Let's go look over the dot over the bay thick and look at the sunlight.

It's the sunset.

All of a sudden, I'm your and vendor slute.

Barton Carl and ESPN, do you work?

Who is that singing the song?

That sounds like she's next.

Yeah.

And even she's very low.

What a disaster.

She's always screaming at each other.

They couldn't find each other.

It's hilarious.

Like, Chris.

Yes.

She should have put an air tag on you.

No, then she wouldn't have found me.

Hey, Tim Cook, get your act together with these air tags.

That thing was a disaster.

Need to be more specific.

All right, Tom.

Well, we already know the answer to this based on this story.

Am I the nozzle?

Well, yeah.

There are two sides to every story.

You don't need to keep a cool booty, okay?

We are here to judge.

I plead the fifth.

Am I right?

Adoy.

Am I the nozzle?

Oh, no, no, wrong.

Seth chiming in on the chat.

Next on Tateline.

What's up, Tom?

All right.

So we're going to start here.

Yes, Chris, you were the nozzle or tool in that situation.

Yeah, we already established that.

Move on.

I like to continue talking about this, but anyway.

So this one, we is a little local flair.

We teased it the other day.

We didn't get a chance to get to it.

And we mentioned it last week.

But now I'm going to bring it back again because it's even more relevant.

Last week, I mentioned how Butch Cassie got fired by Vegas Golden Knights with eight games left.

I couldn't understand why an NHL team would fire their coach with only one week left in the season,

especially when you're in the playoffs.

Well, enter the New York Islanders who decided to fire Patrick Wall with four games left in the season

and hire Peter DeBoer instead as a long term solution.

I believe they agreed to a three year term with him.

But still, I don't understand why a coach needs to be let go when they lead their team

well past expectations.

Maybe they didn't feel that he was running it right.

But our

our teams nozzles for doing this, especially when teams succeed.

I think it determined it depends on the situation.

I'm going to say in this case they are not nozzles.

Number one, they went and got the guy that they knew was going to be in demand this off season.

So they wanted to make sure they got the right coach in Peter DeBoer before that.

Number two, I have seen teams that have had really good records before that will go ahead and fire somebody

because it just is not connecting in the locker room.

So I could see where that could happen.

Like that happened.

Someone that happened with the islanders with Peter Lovia led it was his first job.

Yeah.

And they were actually pretty good, but they still fired him because they thought he didn't have

they lost the locker room.

That was that was the talk out of it.

Yeah.

I don't have a problem with it.

It's odd, but not a nozzles.

You firing a guy that late in the season.

Four games left and hiring the new coach to come in.

Not just interim new coach who wasn't even there.

Yeah, that's they have the new coach already.

I mean, the Patriots didn't hide that didn't do that bad.

You know what I mean?

It's a tomato.

It's right mail.

At least they waited after the season.

Let them have the dignity of finishing.

It's like a champion.

You stop in a fight with like 14 seconds ago.

I already took my ass kick and my show let me stand out on my feet and have some pride.

Yeah.

I heard in Tampa years ago.

When Shannon was down there and I did not hear this from him, but I heard that when they were

basically telling him he was going to come back.

Lovey Smith, two months earlier, had bought a house in Tampa.

Oh, my God.

And then lovey was out after two years.

That was that carbon that has got in Houston.

Oh, my God.

I also like to add maybe to the nozzle factor here.

They also fired him on Easter Sunday as well.

All right.

That's fair.

Do you know that he was Christian or Catholic?

I don't have that information.

Maybe he was agnostic Tom.

Maybe they checked that.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Could have been.

Maybe next.

Maybe the atheist.

You shouldn't make religious assumptions about people, Tom.

It's a very dangerous game.

Next.

Yeah, how dare me.

I'm not going to make an assumption about this person because he has a very big resume if you get

where I'm going at this stock rivers.

Oh, God.

Yeah, Bart knows where I'm going with this.

He in the box have a little bit of friction right now.

And well, I guess in a team meeting, he tried to inspire the team about how good of a job he can do.

And well, I'm just going to let Shum Sharanya take it away.

Then comes March 2.

It was a game of a back-to-back against the Boston Celtics.

Doc Rivers called for a team meeting that day.

And the day of the game, this team meeting.

My understanding is, is in that meeting, Doc Rivers implored his team, according to six people in the room,

to look at my resume and, quote, Google me.

I took teams to the playoffs in championship that weren't supposed to be there.

I thought this was one of them.

That was not well received internally.

And that was just another example of the disconnect.

If they also Googled him, they would have found out how many blown leads his teams have had in playoffs.

They could have failed.

Yeah, look at his clipper, his clipper, it rained.

Like, he was a controversial hire anyway.

Miss season, when the other guy was doing a good enough job.

And they were almost, they had a, they were like in second place.

Yeah, and it was clear that Yannis didn't like the new guy.

Right.

It was a griffin.

So be careful what you wish for, because now you're going to be with Doc Rivers going to get fired

and you're going to be without Yannis.

And where's the organization going to be there?

Sorry, Craig.

Yeah, it's, it's not a good scene.

I'm sorry.

That is from Doc.

Not only right there from Doc.

They can hire it.

Google me.

Like, if you're not Kirk Tignetti.

Bro, that, bro, that's the, that's the lowest of the low.

Because Google you, how about I Google you and I do a search.

And I just do a search from the last 10 years.

Three one leads blown.

Right.

Fire.

Fire.

Fire.

Yeah.

Let's go to Orlando Magic, Doc Rivers.

We got another one or no?

Yeah, I got another one.

All right.

One more for you real quickly.

And this one comes from a proposal.

I believe we also mentioned this on the name of the nozzle back in the day.

But seems to be getting some more traction here.

And I've been seeing reports that the NCAA's heavily considering expanding the field to 76 teams

from 64 teams, which I find to be stupid.

Because in my opinion, the tournament is perfect the way it is.

However, let me play devil's advocate here for a second and see if the NCAA is a nozzle, which yes they are.

But again, I'll play devil's advocate.

We've been complaining some of us that the tournament has grown a little bit stale because seemingly the Cinderella is dead.

Maybe that has something to do with NIL.

Maybe that's an anomaly thing.

Maybe an expansion here would reinvigorate some inch or not reinvigorate some interest.

It would reinvigorate some teams to maybe we'll see another Cinderella make a further run if there are theoretically more Cinderella-esque teams in the tournament.

That would be the only way maybe I could see this being a positive.

Yeah, listen, I, you know, I have no use for the NCAA when it comes to trying to reinvent the wheel here.

And the way they've gone about their business in a lot of ways the last several years.

There's no need to expand it.

If you're worried about not having as many upsets and as many Cinderella's, like there are plenty of people who have argued over the years that you might get that Cinderella upset in the first or second round.

But after that, you'd rather have those bigger teams that had an off night that were just better teams.

And you'd get better games down the line.

Yeah, I mean, it's going to turn into like, like I said, Michigan was the first team to ever have like five new players come in at the same time.

You know, it's going to be interesting and see going forward if people try and start fracking and everybody tries to do that trend.

You know, but it's kind of going to be going to be what it is.

But the good, the fun part in the great part is that even though you may get teams that aren't Cinderella's, you're going to get new universities that's new to the party.

Right. So that's that's your new Cinderella.

The fact that Indiana could be a champion.

The fact that, you know, small school can be a champion because now the NIO money is like the best team that money can buy.

And that's just not unique to just power five teams.

And the team that won the 12th five game was high point.

And we talked about all the money that had poured into high point this year.

And the fact that basically that was a school that is a college for learning how to smooth.

Learning how to smooth and relationship like they have two stakeholders specifically on campus.

Right.

To learn how to go out to dinner with executives.

I mean, it's not the worst idea in the world.

That's important.

Yes, networking 101.

Yes.

There's a lot of that going on there.

Ellen ESPN New York and on the ESPN New York YouTube channel at eight hundred nine one nine three seven seven six.

Make sure that you are subscribed to ESPN New York on YouTube stream the full weekday lineup live.

Watch complete replays or catch up fast with can't miss highlights.

Jump into the live chat.

React in real time.

Make your voice part of the show.

Subscribe to ESPN New York on YouTube now and stay locked in.

Thanks for listening to the part in Carlin podcast.

I want my enemies to burn in hell.

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

People just destroying Doc in the chat.

Yeah, man.

Doc Google me like it's not going in well for Doc.

I mean, this is literally Doc's last coaching job.

I don't see him ever being able.

If he ever gets let go by Milwaukee, they decide to go in separate directions.

And listen, he's made a heck of a lot of money.

He's not a Hall of Famer in my opinion, but he's a guy that, you know, I put him in the category with players that became coaches.

He's up there as far as some of the best former players to coach the game.

And when I say, when I say former player, I'm not just talking about guys who play really badly.

Like, I'm saying that you got to be at least like Steve Kerr.

Yeah.

I said, Tom is Kevin McCale.

Not Kevin McCale.

Yeah, Kevin McCale coach for a little bit.

JJ Reddick.

No, no, JJ Reddick ain't in that category.

He was a role player.

Doc was a little better than that.

You know what I mean?

Jason kid.

He's right up there as far as his accomplishments.

Yeah, as far as his accomplishments, you know, saying, but like, I think at some point the game passes us all.

And it's time to hand the baton to the younger generation.

And he's been teeter and on that for a while.

I want to play this real quick.

We didn't get to Hans sound from yesterday, but it will hold for tomorrow.

So we will play that tomorrow.

But this is Monica McNutt on first take yesterday about Janice and a somewhat surprising take.

So this is to me is going to be a really interesting separation, potentially over the summer, because I would not leverage my future.

If I didn't have a team that I felt like was in a position to win now, but maybe missing a piece.

And you can make the trade work in terms of what would be involved.

Like that's the type of team.

To me, he is not worth the future of an organization right now.

Worth building around.

No, I would not put it as my centerpiece.

Is that team the next Monica?

I knew this was going to happen.

Did I say that?

I mean, I understand.

You said you said missing a piece.

You said missing a piece.

But here's the other part though.

If you were to honestly look at this from the next lens, the future.

I don't know that I like that in New York.

They are in a, they are in the window now to win.

But when I think of the future, I just don't, I think it's going to cost too much here in New York.

And she thinks it's, he's not a centerpiece necessarily.

That's not true.

When, when you watched him play and he was healthy, he was dominating.

He was still top five.

And this was a unhealthy year.

But it's also was a year in which the team held him out where he wanted to play.

And they didn't allow him to play.

And you know, so much so that it cost him a lot of money with Nike as well.

You know, so is he a centerpiece?

Like at this point, you have to take advantage of the fact that you're getting a discount on Jalen Brunson.

Right.

And so you're going to have to dump some salary because it's going to have to be a big three and not a big five or a medium five or average five.

Because right now you have a lot of good players.

You only have one special player and we think that's Brunson.

And you got a lot of good players.

Right.

Go get two great players and then get a bunch of average to good role players to feel.

I think if you get rid of, I think you can still hold on to like your mini big three.

But with two superstars and a great role player in OG, you have OG Brunson.

And then you have Yannis and then you develop some of the younger guys and counter those big guys to be great when it comes down to it.

But I think with, I think if they lose in the first or second round, this is going to be talked about.

This is and the honest thing is it's going to catch up.

I'll pick up a lot more steam.

And if they lose is going to be because somebody didn't step up to help Brunson carry the low.

Yeah, they're going to make it into a Brunson Yannis show and then we'll figure out the rest around.

But I think you get to hold on to OG.

But the problem is with the next is going to have to be a third or fourth team to get involved in last.

That last team we're talking about was Portland who has players that want to get out like Drew holiday.

They have guys that they can absorb contracts and they're starting over, especially without Johnson billips and new coach.

New direction and all that stuff.

Thanks for listening to the Bard and Carlin podcast.

Bucky or Chen Strat, we bought the band.

Here more of Mark Scott and Chris Carlin.

Mornings at 10 on ESPN, New York app and your smart speakers.