How Alex Bregman & Edward Cabrera Launch A NEW ERA For The Chicago Cubs | CHGO Cubs Podcast

Hey Chicago, what do you say? It's the C H Joe Cubs podcast on a Wednesday presented by Tota. Let's go places. Come to you live from Studio West. Happy Wednesday. Everybody hop in the chat. Joey

Prostopolis just in Roman joining us. It's been a pack week, baby. It's just been me and you rock and the news has been awesome. All we

got Sarah on the ones are to Sarah. Go Cubs. Go Cubs. Indeed. Justin man. How are you my friend? I'm good, dude. Again, like I say yesterday. It's just a good time to be a Cubs fan, you know, and then, you know, the hype video comes

out this morning from the Cubs about pregnant and, you know, he picks number three and you get that graphic. I'm putting it on my story. It's like, I'm really I'm like giddy. I'm excited that we got the big fish, you know, this off season. And I'm really excited about this team. And

just the vibes are good. Honestly, I'm going to scale it out a little bit. The vibes in Chicago are good right now. You know, I mean, obviously we have a whole channel dedicated to the bears, but, you know, the city is buzzing with the bears. You know, I say the Cubs are right there with excitement when it comes to like the off season. It's just a good time to be a Chicago. You know, yeah, just a super cool weekend in Chicago sports coming up. So thankfully, of course, it must snow like crazy. Heading into the weekend. Just to add a little that Juno Zekua, if you will. To the

atmosphere. Yeah, man, you're 100% right. And man, I got to tell you that that hype video that Cubs hype video got me that thing was that thing was total fire. And they were a little cheeky about it about like the Cubs so waiting to make a move and then they ushered in

a little bit of a tiny little clap back. And I got to tell them a little golf clap for making that video. And they also released a piece of huge breaking news, Justin. Alex Breggman is going to wear number three. No controversy. And as of this moment right now, the guy who wears number two on the Chicago Cubs.

Yeah, I'm thinking to like if if if I was married to the number two, like Alex Breggman, right. He's number two. And you know, he picked that I believe because he was the second pickle raw behind Nancy Swanson. It was kind of like a troll thing. I want to say is why he's number two in the first place.

Anyways, if I was number two when that was like my whole thing. And I and I was told by the front office that, Hey, we might be trading Nico Horner. I may want to wait and then eventually get number two. It's like my number, like for me, my number 17.

I want 17 no matter where I go what I do. Like I want number 17. So, you know, is there a little bit of writing on the wall, the fact of like Nico staying and he's number two. Because he's a long 10 year Cubs. And you got a shift over to number three. Or is just like, I'm reading too much into it.

too much into it. And a trade could still happen, could not happen, but like the number

has nothing to do with it. I don't know. I'm choosing to believe that maybe he was

given some intel that Nico staying and number two is not available.

It's such a weird. It can easily be something. It can easily be nothing. When we talk about

athletes and the numbers that they play with, right? And whether someone wants to say,

Oh, it's not a big deal. It always ends up kind of factoring one way or the other,

whether someone has a preferred number or not, like Justin, what's your favorite number

and what is your baseball number? Are they the same or are they different?

Yeah. Like I said, 17. I was born on May 17. So I've been 17 my whole life. I'm a left-handed

first baseman. Mark Grace was a big idol of mine growing up. He was 17. Like I am 17

till I die, bro. I am all 17. So what's I'm saying? Like if I was signed by the Cubs and

there was like a 17 already on the team, but like I was getting word that he was going

to be traded. I would hold out from my 17, you know, but that's why I'm thinking, you

know, and pregnant shoes. Maybe he's already been told that Nico staying is not available.

You are, you got to pick a new number and I like three. Three is cool. Three is cool.

Three is my favorite number, Justin. That's my favorite number. So I'm January 3rd. I'm

a comedy guy. So I believe in the rules of three storytelling, beginning, middle, and

and three has always been my number. It's my lucky number. However, when I was a baseball

player growing up, I was a number eight guy because I was an Andre Dawson guy. So I have different

numbers, right? But it's just nice to see that like they weren't going to be fighting over it

or something. And Alex Bregman, look, here's the bottom line with this. Alex Bregman has earned

the pedigree and reputation to not be a jerk about it, but maybe say like, hey, I want to

have my number. If I came over and signed, it doesn't seem to be a problem at all. So already,

like on a teammate level, Alex Bregman already earning points without even swinging a bat.

I like to see that. Everything about the Alex Bregman signing and about him, he's already,

in my opinion, embraced himself to Chicago and Chicago fans more than Tucker ever did. And you

know, I've said it before I'll say it again, loop brought up the fact that Alex Bregman chose

to be a Chicago club. That's what he wanted to do. He insisted on the no trade clause, right?

Like he wants to be here. And you're already seeing it, the black hogs game, big ol' smile in his

face. He instantly this morning trade changes profile picture to the Cubs graphic, you know?

It's like he, you could tell he's excited to be here. And that that's what I want from my team.

I want them to want to be Chicago Cubs. And so far so good with Alex Bregman. It sounds like he

wants to be here and he's proud to be here. And I love that. Yeah, great to see everybody in the

chat today. Come on in. Your comments are welcome and heard. Small ball queen. Welcome back.

Number 11 is her number. Gary Ross. Great to see you, Gary. And yeah, Dante,

more in jail than Royola. I got it all with Oregon. Good for Dante. More for going back.

Number 18 is his for baseball. And I think I saw Godfather C.H. Show saying that Bregman was going

to hit number three. Let's do a Toyota Super Chat there. Number three is where he bats as in

Bregman in the order. I have spoken. So yeah, everyone's really excited right now. And then

Ron asked asking if we're going to CubsCon, I will be there on Friday, Ron. So hopefully we can

say hello once again, like we did at old Crow smokehouse. We did a little bit of it yesterday,

Justin, about where Bregman's going to hit in the lineup. Yeah, it's just fun to talk about

because I don't think that there's a wrong answer, right? Like you can move Bregman around one,

two, three, you can maybe even hit him four is a cleanup hitter. But I think what it also speaks

to is wherever Bregman hits in the order, my hope is that then that then opens up or alleviates

some of the pressure of some of the other guys on the team, right? Justin, we're let's just say we

had Ian happening third for some stretches last year. We had Carson Kelly hitting fourth and some

stretches. Danzby Swanson hitting fifth in some stretches. Bregman again, much like Kyle Tucker was,

and if Bregman can stay healthy, we'll have this for the whole season. It just kind of alleviates

some of the pressure of some of the other guys, right? Where they can fit in different parts

in the lineup and hopefully do damage in places. They're probably more rightly slotted, right? Then

Carson Kelly hitting fourth just really bothered me and we're not going to have that issue this year.

We're not. And don't tell me that Danzby Swanson has the potential to be the greatest number nine

hitter of all time or number eight hitter. People judge him on the contract and it's not fair.

He's a phenomenal defender, go glove, obviously, but like offensively, he was never going to be

the superstar, but he's a star nonetheless. So don't tell me, you know, 789, he can't thrive in

that role. And the cool thing about someone like Bregman is it elongates the lineup, right?

So yesterday you me and Luke talked about, I think we all kind of agree, Nico, Bregman, Bush,

Suzuki and PCA, right? That sounds pretty good. The rest of the lineup, whatever, you know, Amaya,

Hat, what do you want to do? But the first five to me, that's strong. And then the next couple

of spots in the order, these are guys like Ian Hap. He's a good ball player. He's not a number three

hitter, you know, Swanson. He's a good ball player. He's not a number five hitter. So it really

elongates our lineup and makes us makes us a threat. If you're like number eight or nine hitter,

Swanson is hit in 25 bombs, that's a pretty good lineup.

Right. Like that's that's a great way to look at it, Justin, where it's like

people want to give Ian Hap a hard time, right? And I can understand it because he can be a little

streaky and it can for some, not for me, can be frustrating that he does the same thing every year,

which is oh, boohoohoo. It's 30 doubles, 20 home runs, 80 RV eyes, you know, scores 85 runs on and

but to your point, if you have Ian Hap, let's say in the three hole or the four hole, you feel a

little less excited about it. But as you mentioned, like Dan's me, if Ian Hap now is your six hitter

or your seven hitter, he suddenly becomes one of the better six or seven hitters in the division

and by a large, a large scape of the landscape of the National League. The same point that you're

saying about Dan's me Swanson, I don't personally don't like Dan's me Swanson in the fifth hole.

But if Dan's me Swanson is your ninth hitter hitting 20 to 24 bombs and bringing that power surge

from the bottom of the lineup, all of a sudden now, he is one of the better nine hitters in the

National League. So there's two totally different ways to look at some of these players. And that's

the thing about Breggman is hopefully offensively and as other guys like Michael Bush and PCI continue to

get better, they kind of start raising the boat of everybody else and putting them in better positions

to succeed. And then all of a sudden, you're looking more favorably at some other hitters just by

the sheer presence that Breggman can bring to a lineup. Totally. And the guys that we didn't

mention one through five in our perfect lineup, Hap, Mo baller, Miguel Amaya, and Carson Kelly

with Takeer Pick and Swanson, like those are still four potentially good, good offensive players,

but they're in the bottom third of our order. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just,

it gets me excited just talking about it and thinking about it because, you know, Miguel Amaya got hurt

obviously last year, but when he was healthy, he was, he was showing like why he was a former time

prospect, you know, Carson Kelly, he had some magic last year, you know, again, Ian Hap,

steadiest could be, but like literally when it comes to like his numbers will always be there,

no matter how streaky he is up and down. I'm excited, as excited as I am for one through five,

if they choose to do what we think, I'm almost equally as excited for like six through nine,

because we could really create some havoc down there and then turn it back over to the big boys,

right? It's just, it's all good stuff, all good stuff. Yeah, and you roll the clocks back two

years ago, that six through nine was terrifying to me because PCA was struggling. As you said, Amaya

was still learning the ropes. He was struggling too. I mean, there was some kind of, there were some

auto outs on the back half of that lineup two years ago, and that team was competitive in 183 games.

I think I'm just as excited about the six through nine is you are a couple minutes before we go

to break Justin, but there is some breaking news today. A little tangential to the Cubs,

but Ranger Suarez has finally found his team signing a five year deal, $130 million with the

Boston Red Sox. This just happened. So I just want to get like you're just you're quick blush

baseball thoughts on this. Not just for the player, but also the team that made the move.

Yeah, I mean, Boston was the only team that hadn't spent a dollar in the offseason before this,

right? So this is their first big splash. Obviously, they wanted Bregman and they didn't get them.

So this money I'm assuming kind of gets allocated elsewhere and you know, Ranger Suarez, like, you know,

cool, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about it on the right side of the break, but a lot of rumors

about like, you know, Red Sox, they have a couple of pitching prospects that they could offer up

in a trade, whether it be for match shot, Nico Horner, whatever, whatever that is. Well,

I wonder if signing someone like Ranger Suarez allows them to part with a couple pitching prospects

because now you're deeper in the rotation. They got a good rotation. So I just wonder if it's like,

nope, we're just signing Suarez. Could we love them? Or are there more moves coming and this kind

of solidifies their starting rotation where other people become expendable? Yeah, I think you're

100% right that this move does have something to do with the Cubs. And I think it has something to

do with the Cubs in the way that you possibly mentioned. And I think it has to do with the Cubs

in another way that I was thinking about on the drive in that should also make Cubs fans happy

and excited. And I want to hit that on the other side of the break. Sarah, if it's cool,

we're going to go a little early. We're going to take a break here on the C H show Cubs podcast

presented by Toyota on the other side of the break. Talking more Bregman, we are going to start

getting into the rotation because, oh, yeah, Edward Cabrera somehow has just got lost in this

Bregman bananza shuffle. We're going to talk about him a little bit. And oh, yeah, we are going

to talk about the concept of our day three campaign. Do not trade Nico Horner. But first,

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Back here on the CHO Cubs podcast presented by Toyota. Let's go places,

Joy Kostopoulos, Justin Roman, Sarah on the ones and twos. Got some awesome comments here in the

chat. And we got a Toyota super chat. Let's bring it in here from Jeremiah Malone 5809. Thank

you so much, man, for 99 appreciate it. And I remember super chats is the easiest way to guess

to have you read your comments. Quick and definitely on the show. Shaw gives them the flexibility

to rest guys. We will be stronger in October. Sign, Nico and belly. We will we will only be over

the luxury tax this year. Dare to dream. I'm not I'm not going to I'm not going to tamp it down

anymore, Justin, like maybe the Cubs do decide to go. I've wanted them to go over the luxury tax

just this year because it'll be a one time penalty. And when you start really digging into the luxury

tax, you begin to realize that you you have to get up to like 272 80 before it starts to cost you

like eight nine 10 million dollars in luxury tax. If you get up to 250 or 255, it's only a million

and a half in penalty. And again, the the Cubs and to Jedhoyer's credit have put them in this great

position to fly right underneath that luxury tax the very next season. So so Justin, man, I'm not

saying it's going to happen, but I'm not taking it off the table that maybe there is one more move

out there for the Cubs and maybe yes, maybe they're going to go over that luxury tax. I can't I can't

rule it out anymore. Yeah, I mean, here's a deal. Like I know Rick is gets a bad rap, but I mean, he

he has spent in the past. They had a very I think a top three payroll for a while, you know,

during their championship window. So I know he doesn't probably spend every single year like we all

want him to, but he does spend when that window is right. And it's it seems like right now,

the window is right. I mean, Alex Pregman, any daughters should be like, okay, no, no, he's he's

spending, right? Now I don't know if that means he's spending and we're like going over the threshold,

you know, uh, to that super chat, you know, I don't know if Cody Bellinger is a fit, you know,

I know I love I love belly, but you know, say a Suzuki for me in right field is perfectly fine.

The the bat I think could be elite. And I'm sorry, the defense in the past has been shady, but like

when he filled in for Tucker and even in the postseason, I thought he was fine. He was I'd say an

average right fielder and he came over from Japan as a good defender is what we were told. So I'm

cool with Suzuki being a right field. Now if you sign belly, obviously he be your right fielder

and Suzuki goes to D H, I'm super high on mobile. And at some point you've got to let these kids play

and right now the cops have a really good mix of like veterans like Pregman and Swanson and and

Hap and you know what? And and a good mix of young kids like PCA, Matt Shaw, you know, hopefully

Amaya. So for Michael Bush, I was still a consider very young. So for me, it's a perfect spot for

mobile or to be that D H, run with the dude, show us the offense that you showed us last year.

And basically where you've hit your entire career, um, signing belly would definitely hurt that

and hinder that. I'm not going to say I would be super like angry and but like my I don't think

we need belly, you know, I do think that there there's a possibility to have more moves coming.

I just don't think it's a bell in this situation because at some point, I want to see what you have

a mobile or and I think what you have is actually pretty good. Well, and what I think is kind of

flipped on its head over the last week and and I'm in agreement with you. I think like I think

mobile or past the I test. Yeah, like I had I had some questions about I like don't want Casey

swing, but I saw a lot of swing and missing there and I saw a lot of whiff on fastball and you

know, I just thought that there'd might be a little bit of a learning curve, right? Like, um,

Matt Shaw has worked incredibly hard to fix his swing, but I just mouse with you. When I first saw

his swing opening day, I was like, I was like watching a horror movie. I had to wash my it was like

what is this? I think more ballers got a really beautiful swing and he's already shown at the

majorly level that I think he's earned the opportunity. But what we've taught what we're talking

about and what's happened over the last week that I absolutely love and this relates back to the

Red Sox is I can't help but feel like the Red Sox signing Ranger Swarris to a five year 130 million

dollar deal is a reactionary move to losing out on Alex Breckman and what is such a nice thing

to be in a position as a Cubs fan right now is that the Cubs, when it's Edward Cabrera,

now it's Breckman and by and large, the bullpen and you could even whatever we can even do Tyler

Austin is that they went out and they've targeted these players and they've went out and they've

succeeded acquiring them, right? Like we were just doing the Tetsuya Amai. Did they get out bid? Did

the Cubs really want them back and forth? If I'm looking at it now, I don't think the Cubs were

all in on Amai. I think Amai was the backup plan if they couldn't get a Cabrera deal done.

And it was taking so long to get the Cabrera deal done that they started dipping their toe into

the Amai water, right? And and that's sort of where that went. But because the Cubs went in there

with conviction, got the Alex Breckman deal done. I think the Red Sox now are in this reactionary

mode of we got to make the fan base happy or we got to spend this money or we got to do something

and a little ranger's more as go ahead, you know what I mean? And I'd rather be in the Cubs

position right now of more of in control of what I have and what I want to do, what I want to

accomplish, what I want to execute than the Red Sox position right now. And that's the fun thing

to say. Like I'm with you on Belinger, right? But I feel there's a quiet all of a sudden,

there's a quiet confidence building in the Cubs front office to be able to go out and make some of

these moves with conviction, right? I see a ton of people in the chat talking trade right now.

We'll see whether that happens or not. But if nothing happens, Justin, they've gotten the job

done where as the Red Sox, I think I've had to react to moves that didn't work out for them,

the Cubs have made the moves themselves. Yeah, the Red Sox were on that, you know, all their

fan base, you think our fan base was crazy before the ever Cabrera trade. I mean, the Red Sox

fan base was bonkers because they're out. They see those lists on Twitter where it's like,

you know, all these teams have spent, except for the Red Sox, it's zero dollars. They were

losing their minds, you know. And I think, you know, Joey, I wish I was an assistant in

Jed Hoyer's office because I want to say there were two plans of attack. And I said it,

you all can fact check me and Joey, you can vouch for me. I've said this all along. I thought

they're going to make a big trade and a big signing. And I didn't know which one was going to be

which. You know, if you sign Dylan Seas, you're trading for a bet potentially. Obviously, they traded

for the for Cabrera and the big signing was a bet. So I didn't know which way it was going to go.

But I kind of believe they maybe had two plans, you know, but one trade and one big signing. And

they did that. So the Amai thing, I'm with you, you know, maybe Cabrera was the one that they

really, really wanted. But then Jed's like, I'm just still might not get done. Maybe he was

blocking a Casey. And like, fine, we'll throw our hat in the ring for Amai, just in case. So, um,

bottom line, I'm through the way I played the way I played out. I am thrilled. I love

Cabrera and Brugman. But I'm with you. I don't know what else to expect because if it ended today,

and this was our team, a couple of minor things, rounding it out, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled.

Now, if a trade comes out and they traded Matt Shaw or, you know, Nico Horner or a big,

maybe they blow through the tax and they do sign someone like Cody Belinger, like, I'm not

going to be surprised anymore because I think that they have a plan. And maybe that plan does

include blowing past the luxury tax. I don't know. But I'm thrilled. It's a good place to be when

you could say you do nothing else. I'm very, very happy. But they do even more. I'm a static,

right? It's a good place to be. So let's do this. There's, there's a, there's a great conversation

going on in our chat right now. And this is what CHGO Cubs and CHGO Sports is all about. I'm

going to bring a conversation that people are having in the chat. Let's bring it on to the show

because it relates to what we're talking about. The first one that I saw, I think was Cory

Seacrest was asking, you don't need to find it. Sarah, it's okay. I can remember it. It's he was

just asking like, how good is the Red Sox rotation right now? If you do Suarez, if you do Crochet,

you do Tanner Hawk, you do Brian Bellow, you know, they have some interesting pieces and they do

have a deeper starting rotation. I think what's going on right now in the chat is, is our

guy Gary and other people are discussing, would now the Red Sox be interested in a guy like Matt

Shaw for high-end pitching prospects in Boston system? I want to get your take on that because

there's two schools of thought. One, I do believe that the Cubs love Matt Shaw. But two,

Jed Hoyer has been pretty clear that the focus all off season was going to be about starting pitching,

starting pitching, starting pitching. I'm not here to sit here and say, well, one prospect

would be better than the other. But how would you feel about that if the Red Sox, if the Cubs did turn

around and did a deal with the Red Sox and it was Matt Shaw going on the Red Sox for maybe two of

Boston's higher-end pitching prospects, how would you digest that news? Well, it's funny, Joey,

so when you asked my reaction on Ranger Suarez, the signing, that's the first thing I thought of

because Ken Rosenthal, I want to say was this morning, maybe late last night, I don't know the exact,

but he named checked those two prized pitching prospects from the Red Sox in a deal for Nico Horner,

but you could switch out with Matt Shaw Cubs, right? So when the Red Sox signed Suarez, it got me

thinking like, is this the guy they really, really, really wanted? Or they do want him,

but it also allows them to trade from strength now, which is their pitching infrastructure.

So, you know, man, listen, I have walked the line of, I am down with the Cubs being open for

business, I am okay with Jed Hoyer answering every phone call on Nico Horner, on Matt Shaw,

there are no untouchables, minus PCA and Kate Horton for me, basically, right? So I'm all for

being open for business. Now, I will say this, if you're going to trade Nico Horner,

you better get some really good things back and Matt Shaw slides into second base.

The other way around, if you trade Matt Shaw, there better be a Nico Horner extension,

because Matt Shaw seems to be the backup plan to Nico Horner. So my thing is, you know,

Matt Shaw for a couple great pitching prospects, like, almost ready to go. Okay, but Nico better

be signed for five more years, because the only way I stomach Nico leaving is because we have Matt

Shaw, and I do think his potential in sealing is sky high, and I hate to give up on that early.

Yeah, and here's the rub on it, if it is Matt Shaw, and we got Gary Ross in the chat with the Toyota

Super Chat saying, Red Sox wanted Matt Shaw in the draft too. So we're assuming that he's been

coveted by the organization for a while. Okay, and look, I'm not here to pass judgment on who

these high-end pitching prospects could possibly be in a deal, and it might be great news for

the Chicago Cubs. Here's what I do know, though. We were just talking about the money factor.

And if you take Matt Shaw off of this team for two guys that maybe in theory might not be ready,

or maybe would help you towards the back end of 2026, and not in the moment when opening day

happens, that also seems to say to me that the Cubs then are willing to go over the luxury tax,

because they're either going to have to sign somebody else, or as you said Justin,

get Nico Horner locked up right now. So that's the only part that I'm curious to see what that

would all look like. And the part of it, if it's Nico Horner, for top pitching prospects,

I understand that Matt Shaw would replace him. Again, though, my hesitancy would lie in the fact

that on opening day, we would be a lesser team than we are in this moment right now.

And just an easy fundamental way to look at it is if you feel like your team is strong right now

in July, do not weaken it before opening day. I know you want to think about tomorrow. I get it.

I totally get it. But you can still wait on it. You can still wait on Matt Shaw and do this deal

a little bit differently. I just feel like the way that the team has constituted and constructed

right now in January, don't take away from that before opening day. That's the part that doesn't

seem to make a lot of sense to me. Now, here's a hot take that I'm giving you as a die hard Nico Horner

fan. Here is a hot take. I do believe Matt Shaw's ceiling is higher than Nico Horner, because I do

believe that there's a lot of power in there. And if you tell me you get a, we already seen him

be a great defender. You get a, and at third base. So that means he can, and he played second

base in college this freshman year. So a great defender at second base, presumably an offensive

threat with power. I think his ceiling is higher. Now prospects don't always pan out. I know that.

So right now Nico is the better player. I'm with you guys. But the hot take here for me is that

Matt Shaw's ceiling is higher. I really would hate to part with him. I've talked myself into both

guys can coexist this year. And we would be a deep, deep, deep team. And probably, you know,

one, two with the Dodgers pie for favorites going into the postseason. But, but I've also talked

myself into looking at the layout of the, of the land when it comes to past this season. And

Ian Hap is a free agent. Say I Suzuki is a free agent and Nico Horner is a free agent. Matt Shaw

could fit in any of those spots next year in a starting role, even if he is quote unquote super

utility right now. So for me, my preference is keep both guys. And that's, that's, that's rock.

Let's do this thing. You know, but I really am hesitant to give up on Matt Shaw because I do

think his ceiling is sky high. And I would just hate to give that up early. Yeah, it's a fascinating

consideration. I'm with you that I don't think Matt Shaw's trade value is as high as it probably

will hit in his career while I will also say Nico Horner's value may not be higher. But then you

have to ask yourself the question. If his value is so high, why don't you just keep him on the damn

team? You know what I mean? So like, that's kind of where we're at with both of these guys, right?

And that's what's so interesting about it. Let's take a break here on the CUBE's podcast.

The chat is rocking today. Great job guys. Keep the great comments coming in. I remember super chats

also are more than welcome. Hit the like button on the other side of the break. We are going to talk

about the Cubs rotation. Talk a little depth. Keep the conversation rolling. And, and yeah,

and just dive right into it. So let's hear from some of our wonderful partners here on CHCO Cubs.

Presented by Toyota. Let's go places. We will be right back in two minutes.

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heating cooling.com. Back here on the CHO Cubs podcast presented by Toyota,

Joey Christopoulos, Justin Roman, Sarah on the ones and twos. Make sure you like this video,

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Hang out with us. Chef Kevin Penner, man, crushing it with Shota Niko,

Sarah, Happen Town or all free agents next year. They'll need to rebuild the bullpen again next

year. They need to make the most of this year of the ball. It's over. He's in. Thank you chef

reason. You are the best, my friend. Thank you so much for coming into the chat. Before we move on

talking about the CHO community. This weekend, there's this little thing called bears rams.

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make sure you get all CHGO.com for more details and sign up today. Let's dive into one of our

wonderful segments that we have here on CHGO Cubs. Let's get to our game day men's health segment

of the day. And let's get to the difference maker. The pipeline difference maker for game day

men's health, whether you're a better father, better husband, better man, better podcaster,

better dog father, go to game day men's health, then it's a game day CHGO.com to find locations

closest to you are game day men's health difference maker, Justin. I'm going to go a little bit

different here. When we talk about pipeline with the Chicago Cubs, they utilize that pipeline in

Owen Casey to bring in a guy like Edward Cabrera. And I want to do some rotation talk with you

because Bruce Levine tweeted it. We've mentioned it on the show months ago. Gary Rosses in the chat

chat, refuting it. But I don't think I think it's time that here's the thing about baseball,

old axioms, old norms, things evolve all the time in the game of baseball. No one knew that there

was going to be an opener in baseball, right? Like no one knew that everyone in the planet was

going to throw 97 miles, 98 miles an hour. Things change all the time. So game day men's health

difference maker. Is Edward Cabrera for you? Is he the X factor of the Cubs rotation? And also,

let's dive into can the Cubs possibly deploy a six man rotation at some point this season?

Yeah, Cabrera is the wild card there because I mean, I've seen enough out of Kate Horton. We

don't have a small sample of Kate Horton. We have a large sample of Kate Horton. And he is,

I think without a doubt our ace. I mean, he was nasty. Best pitcher in baseball,

statistically for a big chunk of it. Second half, you know, I mean, again, I think the

postseason is totally different if we have Kate Horton going game one against, you know,

well, then the Padres and the Burrs. But anyways, so for me, Kate Horton is your ace.

Edward Cabrera has the stuff to be an ace. And he's got the velocity. He's got the stuff.

But we don't need that. We need to be a strong number two. Like if we, if we go into the season

and Cabrera could be that number two, our rotation of Horton, Cabrera, Matthew Boyd,

Tyone and Shota Imanaga, that's a strong five. Now, your second part of that question was

six man rotation. We have our former ace and the heart and soul of our team, Justin Steele coming

back. I'm going to say conservatively second half. Now he may surprise everybody and be ready

opening day or in May or I'm going to say second half conservatively. But with him coming back

from an injury with Edward Cabrera in the past having injury problems with Matthew Boyd in the

past having injury problems with Kate Horton having, you know, his innings pushed, you know,

bigger and bigger and bigger. And real quick, he hasn't finished the last two years healthy.

It's just a fact, you know, he's what it is. Shota Imanaga also coming off an injury at the end

of last year. I think in this case, keeping everybody fresh for October, because we all think

we're going to be playing October baseball game. I think in this case, second half of the year when

Steele comes back, why would you not try a six man rotation? Because if you don't, who's getting

bumped? Now mind you, injuries happen. I get that. But if everybody's healthy, why would you not

implement a six man rotation to keep everybody fresh for post season? Look, when it comes to the

game day, men's health difference maker, it's easily Edward Cabrera, right? Because this can go

into different directions. And we'll honestly can go into three, right? Like one, you worry about

first and foremost, his healthy. You want to see him get through the season healthy. The second one

is that, I mean, like any pitcher, he could struggle and be ineffective. And then the third one is

the one that we're all banking on is that this guy unlocks something. And with the Cubs pitch lab,

he takes his game to another level. That's a difference maker, right? Now all of a sudden,

you do have Cade Horton and Edward Cabrera throwing gas and striking guys out, right? Like, I mean,

losing streak snappers, right? You know what I mean? And also guys that can also quickly build

winning streaks for you too as well. That's the most important one. You pick up a win

here and there and then you got Horton Cabrera the next two days. Boom, baby, that's three in a row.

And one of the Cubs do all last year. They won two out of three over and over and over and over and

over again. My follow up question to you is it sounds like you said Horton Cabrera boyd showed

him a nugget, James and Tyone. No, that's your five. That's my five for sure, but the order for

me is different. I went, I went Horton. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. What would it? Yeah, match

up aside. What is your order right now? Like, what's your ranking? Yeah. My order is how I would

put them off in rotation is Kate Horton won Cabrera 2, Matthew Boyd 3, Tyone 4 showed Emanaga 5.

Now, I am, I'm not, I'm high on showed Emanaga because for a year and a half of his two years with

the Cubs, he was ace Lake, but he's also the one who struggled the worst on the stretch and in the

postseason. So, you know, people can argue about what for me, it's it's Horton Cabrera boyd Tyone

and showed up plus this puts the lefties up a little bit between a boyd and showed up gives you

know, Tyone in the middle of that. So, that's my five. That's my order. Yeah, look, and the six man is

really intriguing to me and I do think that that I think multiple inning pitchers, especially with

the new rules now, like the guy that comes in and only pitches to one hit or those days are gone

because of the rules. I also think teams are kind of looking for guys that can maybe go multiple

innings at a time. Randy Lewis in the chat spring up a really good point. And this is the sticking

point right of a six man rotation. Where's a bullpen out through through? Where's a bullpen out

through? And it's not like the guys in the pen have options outside of plensia who are not sending

down to rotate arms for fresh arms. It's a very fair point. So, if you do have a six man rotation,

you are carrying one less bullpen guy that you can use on a given daily basis because you're trying

to work around that. The part that I'm also trying to make sense of is and we're just playing

this out because it's January, right? We're two days away from Cubs. Let's just have this conversation.

If steel comes back and they don't want to do a six man rotation, Matthew Boyd has the most

experience transitioning to that role, Justin. But wouldn't that be more wouldn't that be all

performance based? You're not just going to sick Matthew Boyd in the bullpen if he's having

another all star caliber season, right? Like one of those guys, there's going to be an odd man

out situation. I'm just really curious to see how how they use this. And I guess this is what's

fun, right? Is that they do have so much depth. And it's not an embarrassment of riches. Like,

I've used on with other things with our depth offensively, but with our starting rotation, it's like

it's a it's a dearth of solid. We just have a lot of we've got a lot of logs that we can throw on

the fire. So I think I'm just so curious to see how counsel rolls this out because if steel comes

back, it isn't going to be about a guy that can do the role. It's probably going to be a guy

that's performing in a way that that deserves the demotion. I'm just curious how it works out.

I think it's kind of parallel to our infield situation. You know, we have not just four infielders

that are totally capable of being starters. We have five. You know, I think in the rotation

with everybody's health and with Justin steel coming back healthy, we don't just have five

starters that are capable. We have six. You know, and baseball has a funny way of playing things out.

Remember the the the theme before last off season was say how Suzuki was very, very mad that he

he didn't want to just be a DH. And he wanted to play the field. And but we got Kyle Tucker and

Suzuki. You know, his camp was mad. Whatever it was. Well, look how it played out, man. Tucker got

hurt and couldn't play the field. And there's good ol say how Suzuki patrolling right field and

not just in the second half or down the stretch, but also in the playoffs. You know, these things

kind of work themselves out. You know, infield wise, I like having that depth, starting rotation wise,

I like having that depth, especially when you have Horton who hasn't pitched, you know,

200 innings before he's he's still very much on that limit. And we're going to raise it up every

year. You know, Boyd's been heard, Cabrera's been heard, Short has been heard, you know, and

Steel's coming back from an injury, especially in that situation, it's great to have depth because

it'll work itself out. And if and if everybody is totally healthy, that's a great problem to have.

Yeah. And can they get can they get creative on the math? That's why you pick Craig Council,

40 million bucks, right? Of like, we've talked also about piggybackstarts. Like, so let's just say,

it's just, you know, whatever, hypothesize for a second. If you have a show to him in August start

and you run him out for 50, 60, 70 pitches, and then you bring in a Colin Ray or a Justin steel,

and then he goes multiple innings. And all of a sudden, maybe you have games where you're only

running out really three pictures, the whole game. That's another way to save the bullpen too as well.

So I understand the sixth man, each one has to rest up for their particular day and can't be used

on any other day. But I'm wondering if we can get into some mixing and matching of,

yeah, Kate Horton for five innings, Colin Ray for two. Well, yeah, I think you have a really

good point there because we have not only Colin Ray that can give you multi innings. We also have

been Brown, who I think is a wild card as well. Obviously, those are two guys and a side. Those are

three guys that have been starters before that could help negate the bullpen taxing of a six man

rotation, you know, or if council wants to do some piggyback stuff on Shoda. You know, I mean,

I showed him an August starting and then you bring in fireball right hand or Ben Brown after that.

Like offensive lineup. What's going on? You know, like a whiplash. So ultimately, like, again,

these are great problems to have. But we do have some bullpen pieces that can really, really

stretch it out for you to not tax the bullpen. Like other bullpen said, probably been taxing the past

with a six man rotation. But you know what? Again, great problems to have. The fact that we're talking

about how deep we are, I love this conversation. What are we going to do with our 14th starting

picture, Justin? Oh, yeah. Like you said, great power. Also, when it comes, great problems with

credit council. Great power comes great responsibility, right? This is why you pay the big bucks to figure

out how this is all going to make work and make sense and run out the most successful unit you can

have every single day. And Joey, one more thing. I want to talk about the chat for a second

because I want to make sure they know that we are reading the chat Uncle Ted saying no Jackson

Wiggins love question mark. Listen, we haven't even talked about Jackson Wiggins. I mean, like

we're talking about an embarrassing of riches in the starting rotation. And we haven't even

mentioned Jackson Wiggins name until right now. So ultimately, you know, these are great problems

to have. You know, I'm looking at Wiggins like, you know, that's, that's a wild card because

our top pitching prospect, you know, clearly he's got a path in 27 to be in the rotation because

we're losing a bunch of guys. But this year, where does he play? Is he a multi inning reliever

this year down the stretch? I don't know. But like we do have so many options that we didn't even

mention Jackson Wiggins. So right now, yeah, look, Jackson Wiggins. I love him as a prospect.

He's got to earn it on this team. It's as simple as that. He's a young player. Go out and pitch,

stay healthy, be awesome, make it hard, make it hard decision for the Cubs to make. And then

we will talk. And then that's when Jackson Wiggins gets his love. We got to take a break here.

It's the final break on the C H Show Cubs podcast presented by Toyota on the other side of the

break. More of this conversation, Cubs, Con, do not trade Nico Horner. But let's hear from some

of our wonderful partners here on the C H Show Cubs podcast, presented by Toyota. We'll be right back.

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here on the CHGO Cubs podcast presented by Toyota. The wonderful Justin Roman joining me with Sarah

on the ones and twos. The chat's been on fire today. We've been talking about everything. And yes,

ladies and gentlemen, if you've been on CHGO underscore Cubs on Twitter, thank you for joining us

in our cause. It is day three of our campaign of do not trade Nico Horner. And at this time,

I'd like to present some really fun, interesting facts about Nico Horner that helps continue.

The campaign, the cause to not trade Nico Horner. Justin, did you know that Nico Horner had a 94.9

contact contact rate last year. He was in the 86% tile in speed. A 99th percent tile with that

means the dude never swings and misses. Did you know that Nico Horner can dribble a bowling ball?

Did you know that Nico Horner can cook minute rice in 30 minutes? Did you know the dayla,

Oscar, dayla Cruz. Oh, Alex, excuse me. Hey, hey, dayla Cruz on the Cincinnati Reds last year.

He struck out 181 times in 699 played appearances. Nico Horner, it takes him three years to do that.

In 190 games, excuse me, over his last 1800 played appearances, he's only struck out 190 times.

So it takes him three times the amount of times to strike out as Ellie, dayla Cruz. And did you know

when Nico Horner does division, there are no remainders. And he once won a game of connect for

and only three moves, Justin, that is Nico Horner. Do not trade Nico Horner.

And I'm I'm secure enough to admit he's a very good looking man as well. I mean, he's a good

looking dude. So like, I mean, just for the for the fact of like him on a Cubs poster, looks good

for all of Chicago. Like that's a guy you want to keep, right? I'll tell you, my thing is I think

his doppelganger is Mark Hamill. I think Nico Horner kind of looks like Luke Skywalker.

You got to trade Luke Skywalker. Is that really what we're doing? Is this what we're getting

involved in? And I also met Nico Horner at a Cubs season ticket meet and greet shook his hand

strong as Oak. Strong hand, huh? Oh, man, strong hand. We also have people have been awesome.

They've been sending us in their fan submissions to as well recently. You could do it also if you

want to and see it show underscore Cubs. You can send it to me at Joey sports guy too. If you want

to, but people have been sending in their submissions pleading to Jed to not trade Nico Horner.

Let's see the one that we got yesterday. Jed Carter, please for the love of all the

baseball gods do not trade Nico Horner. We can win the World Series this year. Do not trade Nico

Horner. Please. No notes. Love it. Love it. No notes, man. I love how he included Carter. That's

the first time we included Carter on that. I mean, like he was like, he's praying to everybody.

He's like, he's great. It was a Jed Carter. I mean, he's calling everybody out.

Carter, just don't trade one of the last Jedi's that we have. You know what I mean?

Okay, so don't wait. Hypotheticals. There we go. Hypotheticals. In the chat and with that

Rosenthal article, I believe you was talking about Horner, but put match on there. Nico Horner,

whatever. So because actually Rosenthal did say Nico Horner. If Nico Horner was traded to the

Boston Red Sox for their top two pitching prospects that are apparently really good. I'd be honest,

I don't really know where they slot nationally, but like whatever. Yeah, that's okay. You are saying

hard no. Of course, look, I would do my due diligence to learn about these pitching prospects,

right? And the last thing, there's two things that I don't do. And I think both of them are

fair and it's not me talking about both sides of my mouth. The first one is I'm never going to

say this kid isn't going to make it. Well, also at the same time, I'm never going to say this

kid's easily going to make it. You just never know with prospects, right? There's always that

little something. Everyone can have the talent in the world, but there's always that little bridge

that they need to cross in their game or that hole in their game that they need to fill up to make

it at the major league level. So I wouldn't knee jerk react like that. The problem that would make

me really upset. And we talked about it on yesterday show is that if it is two pitching prospects,

sure, I might be happy in 2028, but every single season is sacred. The 2026 Cubs are primed to win

right now. They are dangerous enough where we could have a reasonable argument about how they can

compete compete with the Dodgers without sounding like we're drunk. You know what I'm saying? So

that would be my only thing. And yesterday, I said, you know what, if you if we flipped open

our phone and it was oh my god, we just tried a Nico Horner for Macy Miller. Oh my god, we just

tried a Nico Horner and obviously pieces for Joe Ryan. Right. At that point, I love Nico Horner,

but you'd have to say I understand the deal and I can also make the argument that maybe the

Cubs just got better, but just in a different way. If it's Nico Horner for prospects, I'm telling you

man, I in the moment, I'm going to be upset. I'm going to be upset for the 2026 Cubs. A team that

I really think can make some noise and be really dangerous in the National League. Yeah, I think it's

again, I would rather personally extend Nico Horner an announcement coming before the Cubs

convention. How great would that be? Opening ceremonies. Oh, by the way, we extended them for

five years. I'm all in on that. I just still believe you take phone calls because I don't want to

get rid of Matt Shaw. Because again, I'll reiterate, I do think Matt Shaw's ceiling is higher than

Nico Horner while providing similar defense. I mean, Nico's probably a better defender, but

Matt Shaw is also very young, you know? So I saw amazing things on a Matt Shaw last year,

defensively. And he ended the year with more homers and Nico Horner and he got sent down a

triple A. I mean, like he didn't play as much as Nico. So I think the ceiling is higher than

Matt Shaw. So I don't like choosing between the two, but if you had like a gun to my head and who

would you rather trade? If I'm not getting it and extend an extension for Nico Horner, I don't

want to trade Matt Shaw because like he's your security for the year after and beyond. I mean,

again, I would rather extend Nico Horner. Keep Matt Shaw. Have Matt Shaw be your left

fielder in 2027 or whatever it is and you're you're better off for that. But if it's one of the other,

man, I really hate to give up on Matt Shaw's potential because already we've seen his floor

defensively phenomenal. And the power is there too. So I don't know. Yeah, no, look, I think that's

Carter Hawkins in the chat just said trade. The trade would be Christian deal Matt Shaw to Boston

for Christian Campbell and Connor early. Okay. I mean, Campbell's in the same spot as Matt Shaw,

where he was a guy that made the Major League team and had to go back down the minors to work on

some stuff. And frankly, to Matt Shaw's credit, Matt Shaw bounced back and was a threat and

brought the power in the second half. And that's something that Campbell still had to work through.

So I understand maybe you're getting the pitch on top of that. But, man, I don't know.

I'm just like, I'm just sort of sitting in the spot right now where I'm just living in the

here and now. And Nico Horner is in the here and now. So you know what I mean? Like, save Nico,

man, like, save Nico. Don't don't let it happen. I mean, did you know, did you know that Nico Horner

doesn't actually read books? He just stares at them until the information. He just gets the

information that he wants. He's perfect. He's a. And again, I don't want someone to take my clips

and, you know, but I'm not advocating for it at all. He is one of my favorite, if not my favorite

club currently on the team. He really is. Perfect ball player, you know, but, man, if he's not

going to give me an extension before the season, I have to answer the phone calls. And at least,

you know what? I think Corey Secrets says, as much as you love any player, always take calls to see

how other teams views less value your players. Absolutely. At the very least, let's get a scale here

of what other people think of Nico Horner when it comes to extension talks and trade down the road.

Yeah, 100% and it's also fair to say like teams that are striking out on players or teams that

have fan bases that are pissed off right now are looking at the Cubs players and being like, oh,

yeah, we're trying to get this really good guy. And then, you know what I mean? Let's just see

how this all works out. There's a lot of chatter. It is the internet. It is Twitter. Some things are

real. Some things are definitely like fluffed up to kind of prop up other people's positions and things

along those lines. Justin, we got about two and a half minutes before we get out of here. But I

got a question for you CubsCon is on Friday. They are going to be celebrating the 2016 Cubs. I'll

ask you this question. If you could have dinner with anyone from the 2016 Cubs. And it could be

coaching staff. It could be front office. It can be player dinner with one of those 2016 Cubs.

Who would it be? I promise you, I'm not being braggadocious or bragging or anything. But

I've already, I've already hung out and I had dinner with Anthony Rizzo. And let me just tell you

guys, what did you eat? What did you, what did you, what what kind of food did you eat? We're

here at some stake. I mean, it was a bunch of people. It wasn't just me and him. We're not going

to date. But like it was a bunch of people. Yeah, I got to stake house. But my point is is that anybody

who loves Anthony Rizzo should know he's exactly the way you think he is. He's a great great great

dude. Nice to everybody. And he is what you think he is. You know, they say don't meet your heroes.

Anthony Rizzo is that guy. And I'm so glad he's back being an ambassador for the Cubs.

Because in my opinion, he shouldn't have ever left in the first place. He should have been a

Cubs for life. Minus Wilson and San Diego, which was in our fault. But once he got here,

I wish he signed a lifetime contracts. But he is what you think he is. And yeah, so for me,

I want to hang out with Rizzo again. He was cool. Yeah. If baseball was doing the furls five or

six years ago, Anthony Rizzo would still be a cup. Yeah. Because they would have paid him and

that money would have gone into him being an ambassador. He would have stayed in the organization

forever. My answer is with Uncle Ted's. I'm going with Uncle Ted's. I would have dinner with Joe

Madden. I think it'd be really fun. We would talk baseball. We could talk. We could talk movies.

We could talk books. We could talk music. We could have, I think he likes wine. I'm not a big

blind guy. But whatever I'll try, whatever wine that he's tossing around, I think we'd have really

a fun enlightening conversation. And I think it would be a lot of fun. But Anthony Rizzo is a great

one, man. When you say never meet your heroes, I'm with you, man. You should probably meet Anthony

Rizzo. And maybe I will one day and shake his hand. Is it all time human being? Like forget a ball

player. He's an all time human being. And I just want to make sure y'all know that that he is

exactly who you think he is. I'm going to answer it very quick. Chris Bryant. Yeah. That's it.

Okay. Okay. All right. That's it. Tall hands and wonderful. Tall hands and wonderful.

Definitely going to buy you dinner. That's for sure. Let's do the surf and turf. KB. We got to get

out of here. See it's Joe. Everybody in the chat. Thank you so much for hopping in or if you're

watching on YouTube, please like this video. We've had an awesome week of shows. It's such a great

time to be a Cubs fan. CubsCon is on Friday. We're going to be back with a full slate of more

shows. Do not forget tomorrow, Corey and Brendan Cubs related tomorrow night. Do not miss it.

That's a camp miss episode with the pitch doctor and the wonderful fantastic Corey Friedman.

Shout out to Justin Roman, my guy. Shout out to Sarah on the ones and twos. See it. She'll underscore

Cubs. Follow us. Save Nico. Send us in your submissions like our videos. All that good stuff. But

we're out of here. Have a great week. As Luke says, what a perfect time to fly the W. Bye bye.

You're all sitting like the mayor.