How calls with your spouse go sideways (& how to fix it)

Hey, it's Jenna and you have less than a week left to join my habit mastery course if

you're considering it.

One of my favorite things is running into alumni's a year, two years later and hearing

the fruit of something they planted and learned how to do in habit lab and listening to how

it's still bearing fruit.

I mean, I've heard all of it from like my car is cleaner than it's ever been or my brother

came into my house and he's like, what are you doing?

I was like, no, it's a year and a half of house habits or people falling in love with

being their Bible in a whole different way or I've even had like some epic testimonies

of like relational reconciliation with estranged parents or shifting things in their marriage

and it's it's all going back to like partnering with Holy Spirit to figure out what's the

offensively small piece that you can steward in this season to see change and breakthroughs

in the areas that you're holding in your heart.

So if that's interested, interesting for you, go ahead and click in the show notes for

more information.

We've never seen a perfect marriage, but we have seen marriages full of laughter, conflict,

repair, growth and hope.

We're Aaron and Jenison, marriage and relationship coaches and followers of Jesus.

We explore what it looks like to let the gospel set the standard, shaping our relationships

beyond just our feelings and beliefs.

We share vulnerable from our own story and from years of coaching couples through the

patterns that bring life and the ones that don't.

So you don't have to figure it out alone.

This is Marriage Lab.

Welcome to another episode of Marriage Lab with Aaron Zint.

And Jenna Zint.

Yep, that's right.

That's the last name.

She's still getting used to it, we're only 17 years in.

It's a challenge.

You know, and this is why people shouldn't be offended when I forget their name.

It's still working on my own over here.

Okay, fun fact, I actually currently have my Habit Lab Mastery Course registration open

for literally, I haven't done this for how long has been a year and a half?

Yeah, okay.

A year and a half.

Yeah.

It's been a year and a half.

And it's fun to get back into it because I feel excited versus just something I do want

to have.

Yeah.

And so anyways, I found, I was pulling out some old testimonies because it kind of, I

needed a recast division.

I'm excited.

Remind me a lot.

People get out of it.

And this is from a local lady named Emory, and I think it was about two years ago.

She said, I just finished taking Habit Lab and I can't recommend it enough.

Geno will change your life through little bits of better.

I thought I had my habits down, but due to chronic illness, oh, but due to chronic illness,

it brought me back to square one.

And I realized that most of my habits were shame or perfectionist driven.

The first class kicks shame in the teeth.

And over the next nine weeks, I've developed a mindset around who I want to be and not

just the habits I want to have.

Each offensively small habit is a vote for the woman that becoming so good, right?

She's so articulate.

She definitely listened.

She also is an author.

She's written a couple of books.

Oh, that makes sense.

That checks out.

That's a really good written testimony.

Meanwhile, a minor like, do it.

It's like 10 exclamation marks.

It's not bad.

Heart emoji.

Heart emoji.

Okay.

A little emoji with heart eyes.

Praise hands.

I compensate for my lack of articulation with my written word with a lot of emojis.

Do you love it?

Certainly entertaining.

Yeah.

Okay.

What are we talking about today, babe?

We're talking about phone calls.

I don't know what the quick way to say this, but is we, Jenna, will call me throughout

the date and occasionally I'll call her, but you know, most of the time you're in coachings

and then in between coachings, you'll call me or maybe you're on the way to pick up the

kids or you have a lot more running around.

That's true.

I mean, you're not going to be in between and sometimes you want to check in about logistics

that we have later on.

Sometimes you want to just share something, you know, you got out of a coaching.

Sometimes you're checking in on like, Hey, I know you had that meeting today or something

like that.

So.

And the reason that, so we've, you know, at first, like, I think when you're just in your

own marriage, you're like, Oh, this is us thing, but it has come up in so many different

marriage coachings.

It's obviously not usually the predominant one.

Like, we miss it a lot on the quick phone calls, but we realize there's almost an

architect that, like, it would be helpful to have a bit of a system dialed.

So we're going to share what we have tweaked to not have a miss as in, I'm calling and

I jump into a heart share and Aaron doesn't have the time.

It has to interrupt me.

And then I feel like tragically open heart surgery that got cut short, you know, or I'm looking

for logistics and he starts talking heart and I'm like, no, no, I just need to know if

you can pick up rosy or not, you know, or and then he feels cut off and offended.

So what were these have been like three little tweaks that have helped our quick calls.

I would just say quick calls, because I think most married people do not have, they live

in the same, so they're not doing a lot of distance.

And most of the time, it's a quick share of information that shockingly could go way

sideways.

Yeah.

So why would you say, like, this is even necessary to talk about?

Because one, I know that they have gone sideways for us at times.

It's not clear expectations of what you're looking for.

It's not checking, like a phone call is a weird thing where like the person who's making

it has the power to interrupt the receiver's life.

Yeah, assuming they powerfully answer the phone or not, but then some people feel like

they can't not sit on their hostage to their wife.

Sure, like go get them throughout what they don't.

Yeah, or their spouse whoever's calling.

So it's like this odd tension of one person knows what's happening and when the time

frame and the other one does it and just anything that isn't like is like in that kind

of dynamic.

So I've heard something wrong with it, but it just could unvocalize expectations and timing

could be a bunch of misses.

Yeah.

And I have certainly heard husbands, obviously I listen to more husbands than I do wives,

but I've heard husbands have the experience of like, I'm busy at work and my wife calls

hoping to connect, but I don't really have time to do that.

And then or, you know, if she's going to call, I do want to answer because I want to

make sure in case many, you know, partially, partial times, it's an emergency or a change

in logistics that I absolutely could talk for 30 seconds to a minute, but you don't know

what it is.

Like when the phone is being a five minute at least, you know, heart share or something

and I'm like, I know for me, I'm like the other day you called, you're like, hey, call

me because I wanted to talk, actually.

Yeah.

I'll have time at three 10s.

I go, okay, great.

So I start training this guy at work and then you called and in the middle of it, early,

it got out early.

And so I'm like, trying to figure out, I'm like, okay, do I, do I try to put this off

till three 10?

But then I think the reason she's calling is because of this and ultimately I was able

to pause what I was doing to enter the call, but I hope that you hear some level of an

architect in your own marriage in the calls with the misses and honestly, this could be

on whenever this, this does happen for some couples like somebody travels for work or vacation

or something.

Yeah, or goes out of town on like a girl's trip or a man's retreat, like there's, there's

all kinds of misses.

But I think just one noticing the difference of the person who initiates call, even if

you try to plan it, the other person is receiving, it is different.

It's not like this mutual, even if you agreed upon it.

So just realizing like, okay, it is like thoughtfulness and not choosing a fence.

I think one big thing was just not choosing a fence.

Yeah, on either end.

Yeah.

Like if you could answer or if you couldn't, if you had a short window, if you had a long

window, if you could hear part of my heart or if it was just logistics being like, actually,

I remember at one point in the Holy Spirit was like, you're offended that Aaron's a good

worker.

Like, this is like, why can't he call me?

I'm sure he has 10 minutes somewhere.

If this mattered to him, you know, like feeling lonely, maybe in some of that kid logistics,

he would call me back or he'd find the time or he, you know, XYZ and finally the Lord

was like, you got a lot of blame in a case that you're building about your husband.

You could see it that way or you could see, wow, what a good husband that he is present

and giving his, he cares about giving his employer his best.

And I was like, since then I was like, okay, Holy Spirit, you're not wrong.

And then it also probably myself, maybe I don't sit at a death, I don't sit at a death

night to five, but there's so much turnaround that even sometimes like, because my dad's

probably been, I was trying to think of the, the one who has, who's harder to reach and

the one who's trying to reach the person.

Oh, sure, yeah.

There's that power dynamic.

Is there any spiffy label you could think?

Well, the one who's less available, the one who's more available, there's usually a bit

of a potential for offense for the one who's wants to do the calling more.

Yeah, the person who is more available, being offended or, you're lack of availability.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's what I was going to say.

We all, if we think about it, have a power shift dynamic somewhere else.

And that's helped me to think about my dad wanting to talk to me more and he has more

availability.

And he keeps on being like, just call me.

And then me over here realizing like, okay, I'm not at a desk, but often I have, writing

so short, I only have five or seven minutes between things and I either need to decompress

from the last minute or like shift to like, okay, I'm, I'm going to go pick up the kids.

What do we need to do next?

Actually realizing there's no heart posture of trying to withhold or punish my dad.

Yeah.

A lot of times I just don't have those bits to give.

So that helped me give you more grace and not a sign motive of you don't want to connect

or talk.

So I think that would just be my challenge if you have it slanted towards whether you're

the one who is less available or more available, imagine us another relationship where you're

in the opposite seat and having extending grace.

Yeah.

And so as somebody who's, I'd say, it's a different, I'm a different kind of busy.

I don't think I'm more busy than you being at a desk and having this like task, then

next task, the next, next task and mostly all at my desk.

For being the one who's a different kind of busy where you typically make the initiation

calls, sometimes there have been times where I felt kind of annoyed at the, at the call

and it's a kind of an intrusion, a little bit of an intrusion and when it's like, you

just want to share something and it's not going to be a logistics.

And even though like most of the time I technically could, I, and I do a lot, stop.

But there are times where I go like, even though I technically could, this would totally

break the flow of this project that I'm working on.

And I want you to prefer your boss in those, I mean, that's kind of my takeaway, sorry.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, I have a lot of good reasons why I wouldn't, I shouldn't do this.

But I also know that there, I know what it feels like to be a super excited about something

but it'd be really lonely when, you know, somebody is like, I can't, I can't actually

talk to you right here.

You're like, dang.

I don't know if I told you this when I do feel like that and I can't not call, I will

call everybody.

So I can't answer me.

And then worst case quote unquote scenario, I send a voicemail with my excitement and

it actually works a bit.

Yeah.

It's not quite the same dopamine hit, but that would be my suggestion if there's something

you want to be known happy with and your spouse is available.

So the voice mama.

Yeah.

And after the fact to be like, okay, that's not my ideal, but that was good enough.

Yeah.

You know, listen, what he wants to.

It's not like his busyness is not like mislabeling it, a sign of what he thinks I'm worth

or how much he cares.

I think that's when we get in trouble as we, if you loved me, you would take those ten

minutes that I know that you have that kind of thing.

Yep.

Exactly.

I'm like, oh, it's just an unhelpful thought process.

Yeah.

And I don't think, and I know what it, so I know what it feels like to get excited and

I also know what it feels like to go, well, I got some time, I'm going to call them

and see.

And then if they weren't available or they, it would interrupt them, then I wouldn't

want them to answer and be annoyed at me.

I'd want them to either either not answer or what we're about to just talk about these

three points, just get really clear.

So.

And I was going to say one last thing with logistics, because I know that like outside

of true emergencies, I had to get better at defining what was really urgent.

Because honestly, I think as wives a lot of times, we can over, over extend what we would

label in the urgent.

What is that, Stephen Covey's four quadrants, urgent and priority or something like that?

And urgent and important versus the opposite is not urgent, not important and everything

in between.

Okay, ladies, let's be honest.

We have a lot more things that fall into urgent and important in our family life or with

our kids than maybe husbands do.

Or yeah, you would label more things as that than we would.

Yes.

So I think like not taking it is okay that there's a different perspective.

But one of the things we'll do just really, truly, like if you need an answer, but you

don't have them able to commit, like I would send a text with just the basics of can you

pick Rosie up at 430 or not.

And if I don't hear back from him, I plan without him.

I think the hard part is maybe I used to wait in the limbo so that I jack my anxiety where

like I'm trying to wait for him or I don't know if I don't hear back from you at a certain

amount.

I don't get mad at you, but I plan like you're out of the equation.

So even with like after like sometimes there's been times like I don't know if he's working

later not and I don't get an answer and I get to invite to go to a park.

I will stay still stay late at the park and then tell you and it's not punitive.

I think sometimes it's harder to wait.

Yeah, it's almost like you can't wait with a pure heart.

So don't.

Yeah, that's good.

Don't count yourself out.

Say yes, give them the chance and written simple text.

I don't with those when they're logistics text.

This is this is bonus tips content.

I don't tap text a ton of context.

I just will say and you have to assume that I have a good heart and then vice versa.

Like could you pick Rosie up at piano at 430 with nothing else?

Sometimes like us women want to like do contact.

Maybe all the reasons why I'm not bad.

I'm not failing this white urgent like it's unhelpful.

If he's truly that busy, like I do, I need to have plain text and then I can say yes

or no.

And then I'm not offended if I get a one word answer back or vice versa, logistic

one has to be more less, less fluff.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So that's super helpful.

So I think I had like the other whether it's your spouse or you plan ahead, like they're

not there with the pure heart.

And it's actually been great because then it's like sometimes you're like, oh, I wasn't

late.

I was just in a meeting until the end of the day and I wasn't able to tell you and I'm

at Michelle's house having tacos and you're like, what am I supposed to do?

I'm like, come on over to my shelf house or help your figure out dinner.

We'll be home in 30 or something like that.

So I think the fear is having those things happen, but it's actually so much more chill.

Most of the time.

It can't.

You can make it more chill than it.

Even if you're free, like worst case name, if you're free or you could get them or can't,

it's just lower stakes if you've already planned ahead and not waiting.

Yeah, it's good.

Okay.

We're going to go into some framework logistics for good blueprints for these quick calls.

So first one is if you're making the call, actually ask the person if they have capacity,

like, hey, I want like we want to be upfront about what we're going to share.

And so like, hey, do you have capacity to talk through some logistics around this?

Do you have the capacity and you can use whatever kind of words you want, but the idea is we're

gauging and asking an honest question.

Do you have what it takes in this moment, availability-wise, emotion-wise, to answer some questions

or to be a listening ear or to whatever?

I was going to say that with this, I actually, we have to because of Aaron's availability

in the end of mine.

We just run on very little turnaround time while the kids are in school.

We have a real stacked lean schedule with very little time.

So when we say do you have the capacity, we add a time frame.

So I'm like, do you have five minutes?

Yeah.

Do you have 10?

I think this might be a 15 minute conversation or I have two questions, logistic questions.

So like giving the time is actually a major part, I would say, of the capacity.

And then we specify what we're looking for, but the time frame is pretty important.

And it's sometimes, you'll call, I'll call you and I'll say, do you have 10 minutes?

And you're like, I don't have 10, I have five.

And then instead of being offended because it flashes in me, you know, like I could choose

a fence.

I then get the power to think, do I want to share this in five when I rather not rush it

in 10?

So it's like my powerful choice.

And a lot of times, I'll opt for the abbreviated version of five.

And then when we hit your time limit, it's usually like, okay, I have to go my meetings

here or vice versa.

I coach my coaching persons on the call and we'll hang up quickly.

But it's because we set a real clear time parameter.

You have to make yourself trustworthy.

If you're going to deliver ask for a time frame, stick to the time frame.

That's good.

Honestly, and there's a lot of times there will be guys that call me to share stuff and

they'll give me a time frame.

And sometimes I go, okay, great, yeah, I got five minutes.

I might actually have more time.

And so occasionally I do let them go over, but I'll tell you when a guy goes, you know

what?

I told you five minutes, I got this one guy specifically is like, I told you five minutes.

So I'm going to go ahead and end there.

Thanks for taking the call.

I built a lot of trust with me.

So I go, oh, when he says five minutes, he means it because I got people who say five minutes

and they'll just talk as long as you let them, which that's up on me.

I can shut it down if I need, hey, like I actually got to go.

It sucks having to tell people to go like, hey, so I do have to leave.

But sometimes I have to interrupt people in the middle.

If I hit that five minutes and it was a real deadline.

I was going to say what I've started because of coaching little calls and stuff.

I will do, I'll be like, hey, I have 10 or 15 or with you, I will say I have about one

minute left.

And it sounds weird, but giving them a minute warning, they get to choose to land the

plane.

Almost, it gives them a little bit more and rather than hitting something smack, it's like

an awareness that we're coming to an end.

And then usually I'll wrap it with a bow of some level of like, I wish I had more things

for sharing.

Like that sounds really important or something.

And then usually I'll tell them, like, I'm going to carry you my heart or pray.

Yeah.

So it almost is, which is true.

Like I actually really don't say that.

You mean it when you say it.

So if I don't mean it, don't say it.

But I think what it is is like, that's all I had of a phone call to give you, but that

is not the fullness.

Yeah.

Of my care.

Yes.

Yes.

That's a great way to put it.

But I say the one minute warning is helpful.

And then I too, like you said, with the powerful, when people would go past it, now I don't

let them manage the time at all.

I say, like, if they say 10 minutes, it's going to be 10 minutes.

Yeah.

Because I think I have the awareness it's stealing from my kids, like it just feels like

it's not me not wanting to talk to you.

I am robbing my kids of my presence.

Right.

So I'm like, okay, we got about two more minutes.

Is there any, are we landing here or whatever.

So I'd say always being in the driver's seat if, yeah, if you do have a limit and make sure

that if you ask that question, do you have the capacity that it's not a dishonest question

because at any time you ask a yes or no question, if one of the answers will, will, will

incite your wrath or your silent treatment or your punishment or your passive aggression,

then it's not, it's not actually a question.

It's a control mechanism.

Would you like me to be angry at you?

Would you like me to be happy with you as more of the honest question?

I'm happy.

Give me what I want.

Yes.

Yeah.

Because I'm defining care as answering, yes, which is control.

It's not actually a legitimate question.

Oh, that's good.

So like what you're saying, if you ask someone, do you have the capacity, do you have 10 minutes

and they say no and you're like, fine, that would be, then that would be a dishonest question.

The question you're really asking was, you're not actually asking a question.

It's like a say yes to my need.

Yeah, you're making a demand.

That's so it's not a question.

You're making a demand, which is a, it's a grasp for control.

Like you can, you can say no, but it will incur my wrath.

Okay, so I literally haven't done this for a year and a half, but I am so excited to

bring back my habit mastery course at this point.

So I did teach it for almost three years, maybe four, I'm bad at numbers, but 450 people

have done it with me.

And then it took your own half off because I felt like the word was like, hey, let's

set it down.

It's one of the things and now I feel so excited to reoffer it this spring.

There's literally a very short window before registration closes.

So if you've been thinking about it or ever heard, this is your sign, not even in a gimmicky

way, I just am unsure that I will do it again, but I have a green light.

So I feel excited to offer it.

And if there have been areas that have been highlighted in growth for growth in your own

life, but maybe you don't actually know how to turn that into like daily change, how

to implement it, that's what habit mastery classes for.

I think most people just think home habits or fitness habits and nutrition habits, which

we totally did, you know, address, but then also the other areas we dress as morning routine

and relationship habits and how to emotionally process.

There's actually one course that's just or one class that's about having a habit to process

your emotions.

So it's not just a logistic class.

It is one of my favorite compliments I got from an alumni was it's the most hearts

centered, holy spirit approach to habits.

So it's like literally whatever area of your life, you feel pain, either pain like,

oh, I don't love what's happening there.

Or I really need to figure this out for breakthrough, come, come for a habit lab and you'll find

out how to not just hope for more motivation to experience breakthrough, but a new method.

It's not, it's like the new method isn't try harder.

It's tried differently.

Yeah.

Wherever you're looking for breakthrough and I'd love to have you join me, click the link

in the show notes registration ends very soon.

Also, I've never thought about that plainly, yeah, but if it's on a, if it's a dissonx question

where yes and no is equally valid without punitive emotional results, if it's not that it's

a demand.

Okay.

It's number two would be stating clearly what your expectations are.

This kind of goes with one like, do you have capacity for this is a logistic scholar?

This is to connect or something like that, but your expectations at like building expectations

when you make a call to go, he had love to share this is what you'll do is like, he had

a really good session with somebody like, can I, can I tell you about how exciting like

it was or some breakthrough or something like that or for the record, it's not usually

their details.

It's like a, I'm realizing that I can do this or a pattern I'm noticing with, I don't

know.

Right.

Yeah.

You don't usually give me this, they're social in the deeds of their life or even just

excited from like, I got a really kind email from someone.

Can I tell you some of the things they say just like sharing or meeting or you did a

podcast with somebody or you did some recently when you spoke Jenna got invited to speak

at a women's conference in Oklahoma and and so when she was done with her sessions, she

was super excited to share because they went really well and so I was, I was really excited

to share.

But actually, you framed the call with like, like, hey, can I tell you about how it went?

And so if I only have three minutes, I'll probably say, I actually only have three minutes

because I'm, I'm aware that that will be three minutes more than three minutes.

Yeah.

I actually want to hear the fullness of it and I don't want to, I don't want to cheap

in it.

And so I'll go like, oh, I only have three minutes.

Like, can we, how about, and I know I'll, I'll be able to after works that can I call

you around five, my time and, you know, we've, we've had to navigate stuff like that.

But it's helpful to, for the person who's calling to not do leave any guesswork on the

table for like, what are they actually going to be sharing with me?

I think too, like, we were thinking through.

So one, again, the first question, do you have the capacity?

It's usually more a time frame since we know it's limited literal time.

That's most of the capacity we're matching in the, in the day.

And then two, kind of understanding if it's a logistics or, or connection.

And then the next one, when we're number two, what we're talking about right now with

the expectation, some of the things we'll say, it almost reminds me of the subject line

of an email before you click on it.

It's like, I'd like to share something I'm excited about or I'd like to share or I'd

like to process something with you.

Or I'd like some input or I'd, I just want to think through the details of tonight.

That's the common one.

So it's almost like, I mean, you can have your own categories, but thinking through

like four simple categories for the subject line.

So when they get the time frame and then the subject, they can decide if they have that

to give.

Do I have time to read the body of this email and respond appropriately?

Yes.

Because I think I, I guess that's a great analogy that you just said that because most

of the time, that's what I do with my subject line going with my inbox.

Look at the subject line and go, ooh, don't have time to answer that.

Leave it marked on red so I can come back when I have my attention to it.

But I would say that just the notice because sometimes there's this like guessing when

there's like, hey, what are you up to?

And then when that will be, you asked me about that meeting you know I had.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we don't ever give our spouse's tests of their care.

We actually, we either ask for, or even passivity with their care.

Yeah, I would say, I would say the test is on, nobody consciously tests their spouse,

but we do it all the time.

It's sort of, I can do it very easily because I'm thinking, ooh, I need this emotionally.

I, it would feel really good if they gave it to me without me asking because it's really

vulnerable to ask and I don't want to be vulnerable.

But that's what we're, what we're saying is, hey, we need to break up with the idea that

our spouse is supposed to know things about what's happening inside her head.

We're actually training people to not make guesses about what's inside your head.

So to assign, and a, assign care or lack of care to them not getting the thing right is

pat.

Yeah, I would say it's passive.

That's a, that's a good way to put it.

And I was, but also the idea of the expectation of how you'd like to show up if you're sharing

something you're excited with me.

I know that means I almost think of it like obviously joy.

You want me to sit with your joy.

So then what I add parameter wise for myself is like, don't give him edits.

So it wouldn't be like, well, that sounds great.

If you actually, you know, do earn that bonus, but don't get your hopes up for things to

not do when they're excited about something is edit or try to bring them down to earth.

That is not helpful.

And he will trigger the person is it's almost like someone showing you their favorite thing.

And you're like, but this is a $5 Walmart toy, not a prized heirloom and you're like,

don't do that.

Don't poop on their excitement.

And then the next one, I would say process.

We often have to figure like, well, maybe follow up like, are you looking for solutions?

Are you just want me to hear you?

Yeah.

Because that's two different things.

Sometimes I'm like, okay, where am I off Aaron?

And then maybe or I just want to be heard.

Yep.

So processing and ask a clarifying question afterwards.

And last like, I'm looking for some input.

Or like, is that logistics?

Do you want solutions?

When you or help, I think maybe other people would probably say, I want some help or that

probably be more.

Talk weird.

I guess we're so 10 years into communication stuff.

Yeah.

I think of the thing that you'll, it's like, hey, I want to process this conversation ahead

with somebody.

I could I could I get your thoughts afterwards or something like some version of that.

And then I'll say, like, yeah, I want a lot of times, I'll ask you for your thoughts,

I think.

Or you'll say, yes, thoughts or you say, do you have some solutions?

I'm looking for input.

Oh, okay.

If you don't say that, we just assume they are not looking for input.

Yeah.

Because the majority of the time, if you here, so I think you can't go wrong just doing

the withness and the attunement like, oh, man, yeah, I can totally get that.

Because if they're not looking for solutions, you win.

If they are looking for solutions, then you don't give it.

Rarely are they offended that you didn't offer solutions?

They'll just go, oh, well, what are your, they'll ask you for your ideas or your thoughts

on it.

But the other way around gets creates pain a lot.

Helping solutions when they're not hurt, offering solutions when they do want it.

Good guess.

You got lucky that time.

Other times it feels like dismissive or shutting down their pain or telling them they

shouldn't feel that way, which is all of our communications off.

But when it goes, when a such a short conversation could go this wrong, and there, it could

be like explosive.

What was meant to be five minutes is now a 50 minute repair after the kids go to bed.

And lastly, one of the things I would say is if it's about you, whether or not they

do a good job or not with their processing and their emotion or how they're feeling

overwhelmed, this is just like free husband advice.

If your wife calls you in the middle of the day, and she's feeling overwhelmed, and maybe

she doesn't do a great job, and she tells you how you're not showing up for her cheat

code.

Just say, oh, I'm sorry, babe, yeah, that feels like literally engaged with empathy, do

not be passive aggressive.

That will not be helpful.

That sounds really hard.

But do not make it about you.

Do not make it.

She said, or she's overwhelmed, I'm bad, even if she says, it is your fault.

You are just giving witness.

Listen, give empathy.

Okay.

Let's move on to number three.

So we got, do you have capacity?

What are your expectations?

And number three is if you, if it like actually changes and big emotions come up or oh,

you realize something is actually deeper and would require more time, or whether you

the speaker or the listener to know whatever the capacity was around time frame is to be

it's okay to need to pause or yeah, to pause right out of time like for it because sometimes

what will happen is what starts out logistic and then I realize, oh, yeah, I feel afraid

because Wesley's behavior has been so awry on this that I don't know if we have to figure

this out.

So it's like what started as the original, whether it's a spider web or I've discovered

emotions underneath it that I didn't know, then it becomes longer deeper and not as

it's a discovery.

I didn't trick you.

I didn't hoodwink you into trying to like, you know, have logistics, but now I'm sneaking

in emotions there.

So one, sometimes I'll like, I would actually love for you to practice awareness of our

listeners, not you babe.

Sorry.

You did this pretty well.

It's like, oh, I think I'm discovering some emotion or I'm realizing there's bigger

feelings here.

Maybe you say that a lot.

And then I pause it because there's this like self control as we mature and our ability

to manage our emotions that even if we discover them, we don't, they don't spill out

it's crisis.

Yes.

I'm going to put a lid on that until after the kids go to bed and we can chat about it

and you're not abandoning me, you know, none of those victim mindsets around it.

Like my emotions can be okay with the lid.

It's almost like the whole, they won't spoil for 12 hours in the fridge.

Right.

Yeah.

And the, the idea is if you have to, if you're feeling something, some people have said,

yeah, but putting it on the shelf feels like a self abandonment and a reality it's just

self control.

Oh.

So I, it doesn't mean you're not coming back to it.

It doesn't mean you're not coming back and it doesn't mean you have to lie or be quote

unquote, inauthentic because that's the other thing that I remember feeling and saying

a lot is like, well, I, I feel this right now.

I don't know how I can just be okay and because it sounds like you're asking me to just

be okay or something like that, but in reality, no, I'm actually, and this wasn't typically

you asking of something, but it was me going realizing actually my ability to not be

okay and to still show up as not a wet blanket.

That's actually a sign of maturity, not of inauthenticity or self abandonment because I am going

to come back to that.

I don't do want to care for it, but I'm, I'm going to give it the proper place of my

life.

Like we say this, we've said this before, kids are like, your emotions are like kids.

You don't want them at the wheel of the car, but you can't lock them in the trunk either.

I'm not prone to locking them in the trunk, but sometimes we're about to do something and

I go, hey, the kids want the wheel right now and in reality, I'm just, I need to set them

in the back seat where they belong and go, hey, just so you know, we have, we're going

somewhere right now.

I actually need to go somewhere.

So I'm going to let you sit here, go ahead and, you can go ahead and tell me stuff, but

I'm not going to let you drive and I'm actually going to be okay, even though you're a little

upset.

I'm going to make it through this and we'll come back to that.

That's so good.

Actually, we did this in real time.

It wasn't on a phone call yesterday.

We were headed to a fancy fundraiser and a trip, a quadruple date with friends and you

were bringing up some pain.

And I before we got into it, I just didn't want to handle it bad.

So I asked if it was going to be deeper because I was like, are we going to be able to talk,

like whatever cracked the lid?

I always think of it like a tupperware.

Yeah.

Are we going to be able to crack the lid on this and still be okay and connected when

we go in?

Or should we pause?

I'm already close to the place and I heard, I knew what you were asking and the thing that

I knew about what I was about to share was I actually didn't need anything from you.

I just wanted to be known.

So I was like, I know I'll get, because I'm not blaming you for anything.

I'm just kind of sharing my experience to be known and I knew that at least what was

likely is I could share it and you go, oh, that makes sense.

And then that was going to be the end of the conversation.

Yeah.

Well, so it was helpful, but my point would be that too when I asked you if we thought we

could resolve it or if it would affect our night that we're going into, because it was

such a different energy, you could have been offended that I asked, like you could have

read it as she doesn't care or she doesn't want to hear about it.

You know, like she doesn't want to ruin the fun night.

Oh, yeah.

The night's more important to her than all of that.

Honestly, all of those, I think I'd like you to record you listeners to recognize you

and make it as you, that is like a spin offense is trying to put on the situation where

the reality is like they actually don't want, maybe your spouse doesn't want this, but

you can also choose, sorry, you could choose to see it this way.

They don't want to be sloppy with your heart.

Yeah.

So it's like the window they have versus what your heart needs don't align.

And it's sad.

It feels a little awkward when it's like, it's almost like unpacking something at the

airport mid and then you have to pack it back up.

It's a little awkward with your suitcase to do that in front of people.

But the awareness of it's not because this is personal or offense.

It just isn't the container to do this and unpack this right now.

So I think not choosing offense on all these steps is essential.

And I think people don't realize, like it was painful, are they hurt me?

But often your perspective on how you pick it up is whether it's offensive or not.

It's good.

So I'm going to go real quick through the three steps for the framework.

It's one, do you have the capacity?

It should include a general timeframe and then clarity, whether it's only logistics

or a bit more connection.

Number two, clearly state your expectations, obviously with kindness, but you don't want

them to guess.

So I'd like to share something exciting, I'd like to process.

I'm looking for input or can you help me solve some logistics.

And then three at the bottom, oh, and no one can get in trouble.

It has to be an honest question or it's control or demand capacity question.

And then number three is if it gets deeper or big emotions or you realize you're not

going to be able to fix it in the timeframe you had, no one gets in trouble for having

to pause, or if you run out of time and you're not choosing offense, you'll put a top

of weird lid on it, put it on the shelf and go back to it when you have the proper space,

adequate space to care for it well.

Yes.

Yes.

That's good.

Okay.

We love you guys.

We hope this helps.

Join my master class.

Now your beliefs affects your behavior in all areas.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Love you.