How Israel wiped out Iran's leadership in 10 minutes - with Ronen Bergman

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Today, the Israeli chief of staff said that during these five minutes, so 10 minutes after 8 to

15 minutes after 8, they killed no less than 40 Iranian top officials.

This is insane from their point of view. I just cannot understand the reason for this behavior,

but the main thing was that they did not try to hide the supremely or the other officials

or put them underground. They just put them above ground. And in their location, it's like you have

a sign on the door says, here lives the happy Haminai family. Please knock. He is here. Please shoot.

It's 4.45 pm on Sunday March 1st in New York City. It is 120 am on Monday March 2nd in Tehran.

And it is 11.45 pm on Sunday March 1st in Israel, as Israelis get ready to turn to a new day.

Today, Sunday, 9 Israelis were killed in an Iranian missile strike on a residential area in

Bay Temesh, according to Israeli officials. The missile hit a populated neighborhood causing

significant destruction. Rescue teams searched through damaged buildings as residents describe

scenes of chaos in the immediate aftermath. This is in addition to the death of a 40-year-old

Israeli who was killed from a missile hit in Tel Aviv on Saturday night. Later on Sunday,

another Iranian missile struck Jerusalem, leaving three people injured. Also on Sunday,

President Trump described the coordinated American Israeli attack on the Iranian regime as going

ahead of schedule, claiming that in a matter of hours, the U.S. has destroyed Iran's entire navy.

He also noted that figures from the leadership of Iran's regime have indicated a willingness to

enter talks. President Trump said he will agree to enter a new round of negotiations, but did not

specify at what point and under what conditions. Meanwhile, videos circulating on the internet

show large crowds of Iranians celebrating the elimination of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the crowds,

which seem to have been gathering even before Iran's state media, confirmed the death of the

Supreme Leader, are seen jubilant, playing loud music, dancing, and shouting, freedom, freedom,

as well as occasional chance of support for the United States. These videos are, of course,

difficult to verify, especially given the Islamic Republic's recent internet shutdown,

but yet they are in wide circulation and are worth monitoring. Iranian expats have held similar

celebrations across European cities, where, occasionally, the old Iranian banner can be seen

being waived next to the Israeli flag. Before we start today's conversation, I do want to remind you

just on one housekeeping note that we at ARC Media are looking to fill multiple editorial and business

roles, including a full stack developer. So if you, a family member, a friend, a colleague is

interested, please go to our career page at ARCMEDIA.org. Let's take a break to hear a word from our sponsor.

War has returned to Israel. Israelis have spent the last days in their safe rooms and in public

bomb shelters. Buildings have been hit and tragically, civilians have been killed. As Israel and the

United States continue their military offensive, Israelis brace for sustained rocket fire.

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call me back. Or go to the link in my show notes to learn more and support United Hutsala's critical

efforts. Now onto today's episode. On this podcast, we usually step back and look at the big picture,

especially how fast the world and the Middle East in particular is changing. That broad view often

helps us understand where we stand, but sometimes focusing closely on one specific moment,

and one specific place gives us a clearer understanding of what's really happening.

There's a joke out there that the biggest employer in Iran these days is the Mossad.

It's not true of course, but there is no doubt that the Mossad and the CIA played a central role

in the success of the opening strike on Iran. More specifically in taking out Iran's leadership

during the first minutes of the war. This is the story we want to share today and who better to

help us understand it than Ronan Bergman of Yediot Achanot and the New York Times. Ronan is an

Israeli investigative military and intelligence journalist and analyst, and an author he joins us

again from his home in Tel Aviv. Ronan, welcome back. Thank you, Dad. Thanks for being with.

I apologize in advance if we'll have sirens during the meeting. That is an evergreen statement

these days from every Israeli guest we have on. So folks, if you hear the sirens or the little

things going off on Ronan's phone, it means that he has to go into his Mahmoud, into his safe room,

and he'll have to step away, but we part in the disruption and we of course understand.

So Ronan, I want to start with the intelligence around the story you're going to tell us today.

And I guess my first question is how did Israel and the U.S. know where and when

Ayatollah Hamani and his close circle would gather? So they have been tracking these people for

months, many months. They knew where Hamani was at the first strike of the previous war, the one in

June. Then they decided not to touch it because then it was not about the regime change.

And everything changed, history changed, the protest. And then they started to follow him

and continue to follow the senior leadership of the Revolutionary God and the military in the

intelligence. And they were looking for opportunity that would have as many people in one group

sitting together in a place that they can identify in the location and in the time, meaning

looking at to the future, they would know where these people are. So they had time, the attack.

And also they were working under the assumption that whoever is not killed in the very first strike,

the very first missile that hit would not be killed because once a person who knows that he

is a potentially a target would understand that Israel, this is started, that U.S. and Israel

started to attack, he will vanish. And out of all of the individuals, once it was decided to kill

the supreme leader, then that was the highest priority of everybody to know where he is and try

to kill him in the very first strike. And then came the operational opportunity of having these two

happening at the same time, like like big group of officials in one place and the supreme leader

in his compound giving the opportunity to kill all of them at the same time.

So Ronan, this really does beg one question. The Iranian leadership may be ruthless, but we have

never really thought of them as certainly having thought of them as incompetent to the contrary.

And after everything that we've learned over the past year, both how they conducted themselves

in some decisions they made, both in April and October of 2024, and then during the 12-day war in

June, one would have thought they would have been more cautious, more careful, they would have learned

a lot along the way. Why on earth did they gather in one place, in this place, above ground, by the

way, in the heart of Tehran? You know, if it was not a serious matter, I would answer you that they

deeply disappointed me. But we are talking about a serious matter, so I won't say it. But I will say

that in the weeks of preparation towards the war, which we figured high probability would happen,

I was very, very skeptical at the ability of either both the Israeli intelligence or U.S.

intelligence to track down and kill the Iranian leadership and especially the Supreme Leader,

because it just happened in June. The war in June started with a massive attack and the first

missiles were aimed to kill 20, 25 people. We spoke about it that night. The Iranians knew that

this is coming. You know, every child in the world knew that there's high probability that the U.S.

is going to strike. They already did this once. They took Maduro to an American prison and I have no

idea why they did not take any precautions. Other than they were convinced, you know, the set of

humorous sovereignty that it would not happen to us. Well, they also believed, I think, that,

and this came up in our conversation with General Petraeus, they also possibly believed that Israel

wouldn't strike during the day, that every one of Israel's operations in the past have been in the

dead of night. And so, I mean, I think it's crazy to take that kind of risk and just believe that

that you could kind of rely on that past pattern as a basis, you know, and turn that into an

assumption for how things will go. Especially you take the risk not just for yourself, but also for

the Supreme Leader, meaning that's the most important guy that you need to protect. But there were

dates that were kept on being delayed because of different reasons. First, they were not enough

for American forces. Then Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu, asked President Trump to hold

for few more days to get these really defenses better prepared. Then Senkom told the President

they need to bring more forces. And then the President decided to give a chance to diplomacy.

And it really got heated in the last week. So, the President gave some days for diplomacy and he

said Wednesday Israeli forces got ready for Wednesday night. Then it was delayed to Thursday.

And then Thursday was delayed to Friday, but this was already a standing order from the President

to act. And then in the last minute, they delayed it a little bit more to Saturday morning,

10 minutes after eight, because they learned that this group of intelligence officials and military

officials are going to meet in a compound at the center of Tehran called Pastor. Everybody Tehran

know what Pastor is. It's the massive compound that includes the presidential palace and the

special guarded compound and complex for the Supreme Leader all in one. And they realized that

at eight o'clock in the morning, which is 915 in Tehran, they are going to hold this meeting

and that the Supreme Leader would be apparently in his compound. So, it's the same vicinity.

So, the first strike, the first thing that happens is this one at 10 minutes past eight.

Ronan, one must imagine that in order to execute such an operation, a lot of planning has to take

place. How did Israel plan for this? Especially without, I mean, as you're saying here now,

it wasn't until very pardon the US sports metaphor, but it wasn't until very late innings that

Israel knew this precise time that this meeting would take place. So, they didn't know about this time,

they didn't know about the place, and yet they clearly had to plan for something like this in

advance, not knowing the when and the where or even the if. If it would actually some opportunity

like this would present itself. So, first of all, it based on decades of collection of intelligence

and attempted penetration inside the Iranian ranks and the and system, human intelligence and

signal intelligence and cyber intelligence. Now, I know that in the movies, you get a sense that

Israel has and maybe in the Iranian psyche, you get a sense that Israel has a spy under every bed

and around every corner. In reality, I think there's much more technology and less human spies.

When you have electronic surveillance, it's easier. Now, it was much easier before the

June war because the people walking around with bodyguards under the order from the supreme leader

to protect his personal and the nuclear scientists and the leaders to protect them heavily from

Assad agents trying to assassinate them in the street. So, they had many, many bodyguards.

They were not allowed the VIPs to carry cell phones because you can geolocate someone with the

phone. But all of their bodyguards were carrying cell phones. So, what Israeli intelligence were doing

was basically following the cell phones of the bodyguards and in this way, they could identify

everyone they want. And this is how they assassinate the people back in June. But then the Iranians

found it out, was exposed. And they just burned this whole way of surveillance. Israeli intelligence

to an extent since June on some fuse of collection and surveillance had to reinvent itself. And the

reinvention is not about a specific point and a specific gathering. You just start following

those people with everything you have 24-7, hoping that when you need it and you have the capacity and

the political will and the international support, then you will also have the operational opportunity.

Ronan, so Israel deployed a three-wave strategy to the attack. I want to go through

each of these waves, but let's just start with the mission of each of these three waves.

The first one is the decapitation or the assassination wave, which means this is aimed only at killing

senior commanders and leaders. The second is to attack the remaining air defenses, the remaining

that survived the previous attacks of Israel and Iran. And its goal was to pave the way for the

biggest air raid in the history of the Israeli Air Force 200 airplanes. We'll flood into Iran

from the west to deal mainly with the long-range ballistic missiles, the number one threat now on

the Israeli public. All right, so we're going to tell the story of the first wave, the decapitation

wave. So let's wind our clocks back to 6am in Israel on the morning of Saturday, February 27th.

Take us from the moment the fighter jets take off to the moment they release their munitions.

So first of all, secrecy, not just vis-a-vis Iranis, but also in Israel. And it's a secrecy in

time where everybody are expecting something to happen, so you need to keep it in the smallest

look possible. Then these airplanes have to fire from very long range, not to be detected by

Iranian raiders as they're interested or aiming at Iran. And they are taking different routes

through different countries, not directly to Iran. And they are firing few rockets, few missiles

from very long way and much longer range than the range of any air defense radar that the

Iranians have. They take off at 6am and something like an hour later, they release the first wave

of long-range ballistic missiles that can be equipped on an airplane. So while the munitions

are making their way to the target, tell me about these munitions. No one is black sparrow.

Israel chose to use these munitions. There's a backstory here. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Israel and the US were testing the arrow and time missile. As we see in disguise above me every

few minutes. Can you just run out and just so people understand? Because I think they hear the

term ballistic missile used all the time. Why does that trajectory that a missile goes on more

dangerous and more lethal? And such a threat that so many countries, including our own in the

United States, is worried about, why do they pose a different kind of threat? First of all,

they can carry because they have powerful engines. They can carry a lot of explosive. They can carry

up to maybe sometimes one ton of explosive. This is a really massive explosion. Second, because they

reach out of the atmosphere, very hard to track. And once they start going back to Earth to the

target, very, very hard to intercept. To stop a ballistic missile, you need something very powerful

and very sophisticated. And it has a name. It's called the arrow, the arrow and the ballistic missile.

Now in order to test and practice the arrow, they have a special testing field in Alaska.

And they needed to develop a bait, something that the arrow would chase and they could test if

the arrow is able to intercept the missiles. So they developed a special missile that acts

like a ballistic missile, but can be fired from an airplane, which is much cheaper, much more

secret and much easier to demonstrate and exercise. And then once you have a ballistic missile

equipped on an airplane, someone came with the idea and said, well, maybe let's make it into a

weapon. So what you get at the end of this too complicated technical explanation is as my

colleague and friend from the New York Times, David Humphaker reports, what you get at the end is

F-15 carrying a ballistic missile or a missile with a massive warhead that can be fired from 15

hundred kilometers. So much, much remote than even the most strategic defense air defense radar

and range. So basically not risking the airplane, not risking the pilot, just firing from a different

continent and go back home and forgetting all about this, well, the missile is paving its way

in a pace and a mass that nothing can stop. This is how they were able to deal with the radar

system of the Iranian strategic air defenses in the previous rounds. So they could just be a far

stand from hundreds of kilometers, shoot at the radars, shoot at the missiles and then pave the way

and neutralize Iran air defenses. And this specific case, what they wanted to achieve was to fire a

missile without being detected, without raising the alert of the Iranians, having them as relaxed

to calm as possible until it's too late. And they sent few missiles to the gathering of the

intelligence officials and no less than 30 missiles to smash the compound of the supreme leader

and the same exact second. But you're saying they they did this in the June war. So again,

it begs the question, should the Iranians not have been somewhat prepared or anticipatory

about the use of this capability again? I just cannot understand the reason for this behavior,

but the strange behavior, the main thing was that they did not try to hide the supreme leader

or the other officials or put them underground. They just put them above ground and in their location,

it's like you have a sign on the door, says here lives the happy Khmernai family. Please knock.

It cannot be anything more blunt and more clear than just say he is here. Please shoot.

Okay. So the missiles are now barreling down that eight mock speed from space towards the target

on the morning, eight o'clock hour of Saturday. Take it from here. The explosions are heard all over

Tehran. They hit these two places in this massive compound. One person did not wake up in the

morning. So he did not attend the gathering. This is the minister of intelligence, only his deputy

attend, but under very senior official. So the national security advisor, the IRGC commander,

the chief of staff who is the third chief of staff because in the last few months, because

Israel already killed the previous chiefs of staff that he replaced. So he is there. Who is

taking a job that they just killed your two predecessors? But they are all there and I was told by one

of the Israelis that were in the secrets of the planning and execution. He said the only way

for someone to survive that meeting was not to attend. So all the people that came there including

the guy in charge of the missile infrastructure of the Air Force and other leaders of the intelligence,

they all died on the spot. And the supreme leader, the supreme leader, the whole compound was

basically taken out. We saw, we published in the New York Times, we published a satellite imagery

of the place and you see it's totally destroyed. Today, the Israeli chief of staff said that

during these five minutes, so 10 minutes after eight to 15 minutes after eight, they killed no less

than 40 Iranian top officials. This is insane from their point of view. Okay, let's take a break

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call me back. Okay, so now tell us about the second and third wave. So this is done for firing

from afar. Then a group of fighter jets are approaching, but still remaining distance,

they identified air defenses of self-production that the Iranis were able to produce by themselves

that were located in strategic places not long ago and they are firing from afar,

destroying those batteries. So basically opening a corridor from the west to this massive fleet

of airplanes that are soon to come. So this is phase two only to open the corridor to reacquire

freedom of flights over Tehran and over the rest of Iran. Israel and the US sort of separate

the tasks of the war between themselves on kind of targets, but also geographically. So Israel is

doing most of the west of Iran and the US is doing most of the east of Iran. The American fueling

tankers are helping Israel to maneuver and getting refueled again and again. And once the air

defenses are neutralized, 200 airplanes are coming and they just jump on hundreds of targets that were

prepared by military intelligence before all connected to either remaining air defenses or mainly

the missile, the strategic ballistic missile, storage, silos, production, launchers,

they just try to hunt them wherever they are because they know that after a few hours the

Iranians would sort of recover or regain control and start firing these missiles on Israel and they

want to reduce the number that Iran is able to fire. Israel know and the Israeli military knows

that if they want to have a longer war, not a long war, but a longer war, they need to have

a little number of missiles fired at Israel because of course once your home front command is exposed

and we saw this strategy that happened today with huge number of casualties in Butchanish,

then you cannot continue the war for Verno. And so as much as more targets are hit in Iran from the

ballistic missile, storage or launches and the first strike then it will be easier to handle the

defense to deal with these missiles afterwards. Okay. What was Iran's plan of attack based on

your understanding? They knew this war was coming so they are had a plan for it. What was their

plan and so far at least based on what we know how much of it they managed to execute? First of all,

they learned from the previous time when Israel hit at the night between the 12th and the 13th.

Newming in June in June. June. Yeah. Yeah. And we spoke on the US night, which was already Israeli

Iran, terror morning, Friday morning. Israel was able to hit so many leaders and so many channels

of control and command that the idea of Iran to launch 1000 missiles that night completely

fipped. It took them until the next evening where they were able to launch something like 100.

The whole command and control system totally collapsed for a long time. They learned the lesson

and basically they created channels of redundancy that they almost don't need even to give an order

once Iran is attacked whoever is in control of a launcher immediately fires. So he would not be

waiting for an order from someone who might be dead and as evident was indeed. So the time

until Iran retaliates was significantly diminished and they were able to fire in a few hours.

But their attempts to fire 30, 40, 50 missiles together at least so far and I hope it won't change.

It all failed. But why? Because much of the launches were damaged. Israel has unmanned hunters

hovering in Iranian airspace looking for targets and whenever launcher is exposed then there's

high probability you'll have a drone firing in this immediately. The imagery then if you already

saw some imagery that the idea spokesperson released of launchers a second before they're

destroyed this is coming from dogs. They're all over the place they're scanning and of course there's

the massive logistic production to have so many jobs. Morning towards supervised, fueled, refueled

with the rebel missiles and ammunition and running this fleet all over Iran and this is something

Israel has been planning for many years and has many secrets that the Iranians are crazy that don't

understand how Israel is able to put this through. What about the Iran's launching so many missiles

rockets, whatever at neighboring countries? The Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar, was that all part of

the Iranian plan for its response? First of all, they threatened that they would do it. You know,

this is the doomsday scenario that many of the Gulf states have been very worried for many years.

Right. That they have money, that they have influenced, that they are sophisticated, that they've

connection with the US. What they don't have is the firepower of Iran and they were afraid that

this would happen and basically what Iran is doing is extortion. They are firing at Bahrain or Saudi

or the UAE because they wanted these countries with their influence to tell President Trump stop

because we are paying the price. This is a point of no return. Once you start shooting at someone,

right, he will be your enemy. Well, that's again, it seems to me talking to you,

it seems like another gross miscalculation like staggering that yes, the theory could be

governments from these countries would try to urge President Trump to wind it down. The other is

that it would get these countries even more engaged in a very direct way as we're seeing right now

to Saudis seem to be, shall we say, getting much more involved than they otherwise might.

Unless this is all makes sense, of course. And I'm sure it also makes sense to the Iranians.

Unless one thing, unless you are convinced, let's say you are the Iranians and you are convinced that

this is not about dismantling your nuclear project, but this is about dismantling your regime.

If you think that this is about taking you out, like completely destroying you,

then you know, better off, all hell breaks loose, all in. And you know, they are trying their

worst, hoping that maybe they will exert enough pressure that this will stop. But from their point

of view, hearing what the President told the demonstrators that help is on its way, looking at what

Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu has issued, sorry, silence.

Sirens, meaning you have a warning or siren, meaning you have to warning.

No, it's a warning. All right. For our listeners, this just means this is the siren that tells

Ronan that he has to be ready to go into a safe room, but he has to go into a safe room yet.

To be the proximity of a safe room or shelter. Yeah. Okay. Ronan, much of your career has been

focused on the shadow intelligence war between Israel and Iran. You grew up, came of age,

if you will, in the shadow of comedy. Was this chapter, we've just witnessed the grand finale

that you were expecting or knew at some point would come back in 2000, I think three or four.

Iran said that they are willing to surrender all the secrets to the IAEA and disassemble their

nuclear project. I got a call from a woman who was the editor-in-chief of the news desk in

Hediot Akhonot and she said, Ronan, you are out of work. The Iranian issue has been concluded

and you have nothing to do. You need to find another job. And I said, you know, I trust my fellow

Iranians that they are going to fuck up this and they are going to cheat. They are going to lie

and they are going to try and build a bomb and I will have work for many, many years and here we are

22 years after and we still don't see the end of that and it's not the Saddam Hussein regime

where it was mainly about Saddam Hussein. This is something that is bigger than Khmernai. Khmernai

is the most important person in the modern history of Iran. He shaped the Islamic Republic

more than Khmernai. Khmernai shaped the regime more than Ayatollah Khmernai. Yes, who is the

original leader of the revolution? The regime is far more him than Khmernai. He left a country

and he left the regime that it's much bigger than one person. And I think it's not a coincidence

that we already have a flood of news of this committee that is going to choose the next

supremely, by the way, Israeli intelligence believed that they will try to elect and appoint one of

his sons. The sons of Khmernai, though Khmernai himself did not recommend this. He said this is

not the kingdom. This is not for me to give my son, but I think that now after what happened,

it's not a natural death. They will try to have something symbolic and as far as Israeli

intelligence is aware, they are going to crown his son much taba. How soon? So soon, they want to

show continuity. But also you have one million, at least one million Iranians that work for the

passage or the IRGC. They depended on this for their lives. It's not going to be, I hope that

this horrible regime will be terminated tomorrow morning, even this evening, if they have time,

but it's not going to be that easy. Okay, my last question for you before you have to run before

you literally have to run. You're following this all closely and you're obviously talking to

Israeli intelligence, which is following all this closely. How are Iranians generally experiencing

this moment? We've seen images in the diaspora, but I'm actually more interested in what you're

seeing inside Iran, but also in the diaspora and the Iranian diaspora. I have a very good friend

who was born in Iran, but now he's out of Iran. You would get into serious trouble if he would

be there, but his family is there. And he sent me yesterday a short video of just a street from

inside a flat to a street. The street is empty. It's war. There's no one there. And the video

keeps on running. And what you hear, raving, screams and joy and laughter and claps and applause

like you know, Makabe Tel Aviv is a very famous basketball team. It's when Makabe wins the

streets of Israel roar. It was the same. People are so happy that this tyrant is off because in many,

many of these families, they love someone because of this butcher. And I think that there are also

people from inside the regime that are not objective regime, but they felt that with this guy,

they are totally stuck. And maybe this could be the beginning of something better. I don't know

this. I hope I am an optimistic person and something is stored my judgment. But for whatever

for good or for bad, Iran has changed. Even if this regime continues, it's not going to be the same

after the demise of Haminae. And after this war, which nobody, I think, already understand how

this is a question I cannot get an answer. Speaking with the American officials,

speaking with the Israeli officials, how would you know that you succeeded? What will signal

that you reached that bar that you say, okay, I'm done. What is next? What is the day after?

The president called the people to go to the streets. But let's say that they go to the streets,

the regime would not surrender and they start shooting in them again. Then the US would intervene

again. This complicated question. And I'm not sure that everybody or the somebody is holding a

precise recipe. How this will be solved. Okay, Brennan, we will leave it there. Thank you,

as always, for this incredible reporting and storytelling. And I have no doubt that we'll

be calling on you some more in the weeks ahead. And until then, stay safe. And I hope you have

a little bit of cushion of time before your next alert goes off that you have to get into your

safe room. Thank you, then. Thanks so much.

That's our show for today. If you value the Call Me Back podcast and you want to support our

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