How to Keep Your Parents and Grandparents Safe Online

Welcome back to Terms of Service, I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy.

We've talked a lot on this show about how to keep your kids safe on the internet.

But what about your parents?

Of course, there are plenty of tech savvy older folks.

Still, I often hear questions about how to keep our parents and grandparents empowered

with access to technology while also protecting them from misinformation and scams and other

internet risks.

To help us out with ways to protect our older loved ones online, I have Tazeen Khan here

with me today.

She is the founder and CEO of a nonprofit called Cyber Collective, which helps make people

internet street smart.

My conversation with Tazeen Khan after this short break.

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Tazeen, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

So to start with, what made you want to start cyber collective?

What were you observing in the world that led you to this work?

It was a combination of a lot of things.

I think if you asked me seven years ago if I would begin doing this work, my answer would

have been probably not.

But my dad had gotten hacked.

One of my girlfriends got sex-storted and I realized that as a cyber security specialist

cyber risk expert, I had a set of information and knowledge that my community members and

the people that I love did not have.

And I started doing workshops out of my living room online, making content, and then one

thing led to another.

And here we are.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Are you willing to share a little bit about what happened to your dad?

Yeah.

For sure.

So my father, he is a very gregarious man, right?

So the type of person that is prone to becoming addicted to Facebook, type of thing, right?

He is involved in his community.

It loves to get together with people.

So Facebook was this place where he really, really found a connection.

And for immigrants, I think as a daughter of immigrants, we're from Bangladesh, the connection

to people back home.

So Baba called me one day, he was like, hey, my bank account is not working.

I don't know what's going on.

One of your cousins asked me for money and I sent them my account information on Facebook.

And he was really upset.

He was really ashamed.

I think that was a really big piece of it.

And through the process, I was helping him out.

It was also my moment to shine because my parents had absolutely no idea what I did for

a living.

It was just, let me show you.

Yeah.

Let me show you.

That was what really led to the impetus of me starting cyber collective.

What do you, just sort of stepping back a little bit, what do you find are the biggest

risks for older people online?

There are a couple.

I think the existential risk that exists right now is loneliness, the solitude, just being

alone and wanting companionship and support.

That is what, unfortunately, these scammers are relying on.

They are using what we call social engineering in industry, which essentially means the

art of manipulation, right?

Using various tactics that lead to investment scans, romance scams, which unfortunately

for people above the age of 60 or the two largest scams, I get them.

And this is obviously not a challenge that's unique to older people, but I do often hear

worries from people whose parents and grandparents, especially are on Facebook about them being

fooled by misinformation online, especially now that we're in this age of AI.

How big of a concern is that?

The thing about misinformation with older people, I would say, in their generation, when

it comes to how we vet information, they are used to vetting things through encyclopedias,

libraries, right?

There was a system, a process that they were taught, and then all of a sudden that process

was ripped from them, and it became just Google this, right?

Just look it up online, and then now we're learning recently in recent times that there's

bias, all that information may not be true.

And then on top of that, there is so much information that is misguided.

So how do they check, how do they trust and verify?

And that's not taught in schools, it's not taught at workshops, and most of these people

have finished work and are likely retired.

So that adds to them being more prone to misinformation.

You touched on this, but between 2020 and 2024, the number of people over 60 reporting

online fraud has gone up by 4x.

Why is that?

First answer, I love this question, I'm so happy that you asked it.

Short answer is COVID, which is you wouldn't put two and two together, but 2020 forced a

massive digital push, right?

People that were used to going to banks in person, or health appointments in person, getting

support in person, now all of a sudden we're pushed to telehealth, we're pushed to online

banking systems, checks have become obsolete, a lot of the systems that we have changed

and that time in 2020 forced us to implement a lot of this new technology and new ways to

live our lives digitally.

So that was a really, really big influence on these scams.

Now, second, I mean, these scammers and people that do fraud, they professionalized even

more, right?

With 2020, with COVID, now you have this opportunity to take advantage of people that are using

more digital tools that are not used to using digital tools.

And then with the rise of AI, with the rise of consumer facing AI in these tools, you

know, everybody talks about, and I don't like this example often, but the Nigerian prince

example that people use and whatnot, the ways that we could detect fraud was, well, the

email has misspelling, or they don't speak English well on the phone, that's obsolete

now too, right?

With the support of AI.

So multiple things combined have created this cesspool, let's call it, and opportunity

for scammers to take advantage.

There are a few types of scams that commonly target older adults.

Investment scams promise fake investment opportunities with big returns, such as cryptocurrencies

or alternative retirement funds.

Romance scams are where a bad actor develops a relationship with the victim, often through

a dating app or social media, and then begins to ask for financial support.

All of these scams, they rely on existing systems, and then they will add something on top

of it, right?

So it might be a link.

So it might look like a legitimate JP Morgan Roth IRA 401k, but it's a fraudulent link.

They ask you to implement your or insert your banking information.

They grab that banking information, so that's one example.

The other example might be a phishing email that comes in to say, hey, your 401k, you need

to update some information in there.

Some new policy that we have at the organization, and this will be really quick, don't worry

about it.

It's regular practice.

We'll get on a call with you and walk you through it because we know that this can be

very overwhelming.

So taking advantage of that and showing support and care, and then people will click the

link, book a call, and you get on a Zoom call, and you give remote access, and now you've

given full access to your device.

And so you're watching them do things on your computer, and then on the back end, or right

in front of you, they can access your bank accounts, social security, any input password,

right?

Text messages, even.

A lot of these scams, too, are long cons, unfortunately, and they will build trust.

They will act like a financial representative and talk to you for weeks or months, and

you're trusting.

Obviously, you've built trust with this person on the other line.

You think, okay, if you say so, that's totally okay.

Right.

What about romance scams?

What does that look like?

Ah, so devastating.

Most of the people that I've spoken to don't even care about the money, they're heartbroken.

Tazeen says, romance scams have become heartbreakingly common.

In 2024, Americans lost some $760 million to romance scams, according to the FBI.

We did a partnership at my organization with Senator Kristen Gonzalez, two years ago,

I believe, and we went to different senior communities in Queens.

And we were at the Woodside Housing Community, where seniors came and we were chatting.

When I mentioned romance scams, 99% of the people in the room had been a victim of romance

scam.

Wow.

That's wild.

All but one person in that room was a victim of a romance scam.

And luckily, we, you know, when we do a lot of these workshops, it's culturally competent,

it's trauma informed, and we understand how shameful it is, how embarrassing it is.

So the romance scams, what they do is exactly what it sounds like, right?

Like I think we know the terms catfishing, where they'll be on Facebook or whatever platform

of choice, and they connect with somebody.

They talk, go through, and it could be a regular normal person that you just think is someone

you found online today.

A lot of these seniors are comfortable with long-distance relationship again.

They're just looking for companionship.

So this one woman's experience, Magdalene, her husband had passed away over a decade

ago, and she was not open to love.

And she finally, after her friends and people in the community center was like, you know,

I found love online, try it.

Like just give it a shot.

And she, that was her first time giving it a shot, and she met this person, and they

were connecting.

They started talking online.

They faced times with one another, they had scheduled dates.

I mean, there was real connection.

And there was another, it's not like it was a bot, there was a real human on the other

end.

And then one day, he's like, could I get some gas money?

And it starts with something small.

And the next day, he was like, well, my son is really going through something, and I

know, you know, I hate to ask you, but would you be okay with sending me like $700 or something?

One thing left led to another.

She ended up losing $7,000, I believe, maybe a little under that.

And he just completely ghosted her afterwards.

What impact do these scams have on people's lives?

You talked a little bit about the money, but say more about that piece of it.

I think Magdalene's story is a really big case of the way that your mental health can

be absolutely shattered.

And it can impact your physical health as well.

There was a study done by the Stanford Center of Longevity, I think, with AARP, where

they studied the elderly and the impact on their physical health after being scammed online.

And if there was an increase in anxiety and depression, people will have PTSD from it.

Many of them led to heart failure.

Wow.

So you're thinking about already vulnerable people from a health perspective as well.

What do you think would happen to their mental health if they lost their life savings?

And there is not really a path of restitution, so that makes it difficult as well.

So there really is a silent aftermath that people are experiencing from being victims

of cybercrime that impact us, I would say, mind, body and spirit for sure.

Artificial intelligence has made it even harder to identify and protect against these scammers.

So are there ways to keep an eye out for your loved ones and for yourself when we come

back to Zine, share some tips?

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How are scammers generally getting in touch with victims?

It sounds from what you're saying, like it could be a whole range of things, phone, email, social media.

Totally.

We could look at this and compartmentalize it in a few different ways.

They're the types of scammers that are the everyday scammers.

It's like, you know, hussars that are on the streets and individual that might be able

to leverage technology just to be the jerk that they're being, right?

Like anybody that would do petty theft outside, perhaps would use tools to do that inside.

And so that might look like, again, the romance scams, long-term cons, investment scams, etc.

Then there is the element of more organized crime.

That organized crime can come from various scamming organizations that are set up with call

centers to exploit people.

And the way that they are able to exploit people is through data breaches sometimes.

So I think this is really important because as a society, when there's a data breach,

it's not something that we're necessarily paying attention to unless we get an email

and even if we get an email or a letter in the mail to say, like, let's say, if there's

a big supermarket that you go to all the time and send you a note or something in the

mail to say, we were hacked.

We're sorry.

Your information is out there somewhere.

Your information is out there somewhere.

Most people read that they're like, well, my information is out there anyway.

Right.

I don't care.

What happens with that information that is now available, either online or on the dark

web of that breach, is scammers are waiting for those lists to be able to use them and

take advantage.

So if it is an email, if it is a password of that email as well, then they can use that

to crack other passwords.

And most people are still using the same passwords, unfortunately.

And the other piece of it, this part is really important to me.

And I'm very passionate about this is that we have zero privacy legislation on a federal

level in this country.

So it is the wild, wild west of data.

Many of these scammers are buying legal datasets that are available online that have our personal

identifiable information.

And they just do a lot of high volume rinse and repeat, right?

They are just scrubbing through these lists to see who has a vulnerability, who never

changed their password.

Yeah.

So they are just waiting for that opportunity, and then they can access your email, your

social media site, what have you.

Right.

It is not like they are looking for you in particular.

They are just looking for who is vulnerable based on these massive lists.

Yeah.

So it is the lists, it is data breaches, data leaks, and a lack of privacy legislation.

What are the core tenets that people of any age need to know to avoid being scammed online?

There is a lot there.

And I think one of them, the biggest one is slowing down, right?

As kind of simple as that sounds, that simplicity is the most important.

We are living in an era where the faster the better, convenience is meeting us and we're

just doing this and looking down at our phones at all times.

So slowing down is number one.

If you're getting an email or a text message from UPS and you don't have a package that

you ordered and you're not expecting anything from UPS, probably shouldn't click that link.

If you didn't sign up for the lottery and then somebody is reaching out saying that

you won the lottery, you probably didn't.

The other core tenent as well is most of these scams as sophisticated as they might be

today with the help of AI.

We just have to remember that there will be a lot of urgency pushing you.

So if you're talking to somebody on the other end, they'll say, well, you have to do

this right now.

You have to send me the money right now.

If you think about our systems in this country as far as banks, government, anything is concerned,

they're not doing much with urgency, right?

And so you can take that as just a nod of, okay, this might be a scam.

The IRS is not contacting me about paperwork that they need, right?

Especially tomorrow and not urgently, right?

They're not calling you and saying, you will go to jail tomorrow.

If you don't pay this $50,000 that you owe the IRS, which is a very common scam that

happens, the other piece would be secrecy.

Many times if with the help desk scams, the text scams that exist, they'll say, well,

just call us back.

You don't have to don't bother anybody in your family, you know, don't worry.

So when that's the case, or even if that's not the case, if you are nervous about what

you're saying online, call somebody you trust.

And if you don't have anybody that you trust, or somebody that you think would be able

to help you, call your bank.

If you're over 60, you can call the National Elder Fraud Hotline and it's 833 Fraud-11.

And you can also call law enforcement.

So I don't know how much help, it also depends on where you live and how the law enforcement

there is trained, but they would at least be able to walk you through and ask you a couple

questions and maybe give you a sense of safety, which is a kind of thing.

Right.

Tell me critically about what's going on.

Totally.

Yeah, that secrecy piece is so interesting.

I read a story recently about somebody who almost got scammed.

It was one of these.

You get a call from your bank and they tell you they need to work through a problem in

your account.

And it wasn't until that person said, well, why don't I just come into the branch and

deal with this in person.

And then the scammer on the phone said, no, no, no.

You don't want to do that.

Don't come in.

We're going to handle this on the phone and that they realized it was something that

was weird was happening.

What about red flags to look out for if you think your loved ones may be in a scam, may

have been scammed if people are wanting to look out for their elders, what should they

be looking for?

That's a great question.

I think we're still collecting a lot of information about this in conversation with people because

of the shame element, it's hard to aggregate that data.

But one thing that we have seen is that secrecy around like, you know, if you are managed

by judging your parents, states or financial information and all of a sudden they're like,

no, no, no, I can do it myself.

If there's somebody that is asking for help normally and want support normally and now

they are no longer looking for help and they say, like, no, I got a guy, well, who's

your guy?

Right.

So creating distance or seeing that there is distance between you and your loved one

is one element of it.

It's hard to answer that question, frankly, because everybody is different.

Everybody is navigating these things differently as well.

And it really depends on how involved you are with your loved one when it comes to the

administrative things that have to do with their life.

Yeah.

How do you recommend navigating the shame piece and having those maybe hard conversations

without feeling like it's somebody's being attacked?

Yeah.

It's tough, right?

I think really, really sitting and empathizing with a person that you're talking to will

help you start in a place of deep compassion.

That is the most critical and most important in my opinion, because until you really can

place yourself in somebody's shoes, you might have it written all over your face.

The second thing I always say is fixture face.

You know, it's definitely got a fixture face.

It's not my place to judge.

You don't know what anybody's lived experiences or what their story is.

So deep compassion, fixing your face, and coming from a place of curiosity and asking

as many questions as possible, and explicitly saying, hey, I care about you.

I am so sorry that you went through this.

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

I think really care and love is the only way to combat shame, in my opinion.

Are there account settings or monitoring tools or other structures that families can

put in place to help reduce risk for older people?

Yes.

So, one of the biggest things, and we have a lot of resources for this on our website at

cybercollective.org.

The Better Business Bureau also has an anti-scan website.

The main Recently that I have selected is Jewain and the team they showed up to them,

they're incredible people.

But starting off with doing an audit of the systems you have, what are the things

that maybe you're not as comfortable navigating and really doing a personal assessment

of I have this is what the technology I have on a daily basis that I use, what are the

things that I have to navigate every dayas in my banks, how many credit cards do I

iOS, right, or as an operating system, or I'm a Windows operating system person.

And really getting an understanding of this is what the landscape of my tax stat kind

of looks like.

And then from there, you'll be able to identify, okay, based off of this, I'm realizing

I have a lot of different accounts that are very important to me with many different

passwords, and it's hard for me to keep up, so I use the same password.

That will give you enough information to know that you should use a password management

tool, right?

How do you know which password management tool is good?

I will plug.

We have a whole episode about password managers.

Perfect.

Going listen to that.

Please, yes.

And I also love that you brought this, like, you've got a physical book, which of course,

like, you would have to store this very carefully at home.

At home.

Don't take it anywhere.

But if you're an older person who is just not going to be comfortable using a digital

password manager, like, this is a great example of how it's still possible to set secure

different passwords for lots of different accounts.

Totally.

And we have best practices in there.

We also have a QR code that leads to a page that talks about password management tools

that we recommend.

But the other, the password management tools, obviously, is something that families can

do.

The other is setting up monthly chats, you know, what type of messages are you getting

that are scams?

Have you gotten any text messages trying to get access to something that normally somebody

wouldn't, being able to have conversations of what you're experiencing on the internet?

That's a very, very important part of this process.

But from a technical perspective, do the audit.

We have a security plan worksheet on our site as well that people can use to teach you

how to do an assessment of yourself and then identify the technology that would be valuable.

Because I think there's a lot of noise out there that tells you, like, you need a VPN.

You need, most of us don't need a VPN, right?

Like, especially if you're at home most of the time, but you likely do need a password management

tool.

Well, to Zane, thank you so much.

This was really helpful.

We appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for caring about these topics.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's more common than you think to be a victim of an online scam, especially today with

advancements in AI and professional fraudsters that often look to target older adults.

If you're looking for ways to protect older family members, consider sitting down with

them for an audit of their online life, talking about what services they regularly use, and

checking to make sure they have strong privacy and security settings in place.

You can also have open conversations about common scam tactics, like having a sense of urgency,

and trying to keep conversations a secret.

If you think you might be caught in a scam, call a loved one, call your bank using the number

on the back of your credit card, or contact other professional resources.

There's the Better Business Bureau's anti-scam group, which offers a hotline and support

and is run by real people.

No bots here.

And if you've been the victim of online fraud, report it to your local law enforcement.

Federal agencies such as the FBI and the Federal Trade Commission have fraud reporting tools

too.

If you want to find out more about Tezine's work, we'll link to Cyber Collectives' website

in our show notes.

That's it for this week's episode of Terms of Service.

I'm Claire Duffy.

Talk to you next week.

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