How You Actually Beat Trump

0:00Where some see heroes and other see egos, Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs, or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at bloomer.com. Vacation. No, no, no, not for me. But I do have other fun things planned. And for you, I have a little reminder of the great stuff we've done on the Chris Cuomo project. All for you and with you. I'll see you soon. Take care yourselves. Donald Trump's response to us is, boy, are you guys naive? You change. You change for the worse. Israel is an easy analysis for him, right?

1:02They're under attack. I'm with them. Right now he's in a tough spot. Because BB doesn't want to get out of the Iran situation. And Trump's going to have to use his leverage. I think that's actually the easiest part of this for him. But he says, I didn't change. I am MAGA. MAGA's whatever I say it is in the moment. Marjorie Taylor Greene is in with it. She she bought into bullshit about Epstein. And she bought into bullshit about me for her own popularity. But I'm still me. Trump is always Trump. You changed. I don't think I bought into any bullshit about Jeffrey Epstein. He's a convicted pedophile. And my entire political career was sacrificed on fighting against the president himself to release the Epstein files. So nothing never changed about me. Wait, I want to give you a chance on that. His people say to me all the time. And this is not going back to put you where this is something you're going to want to address.

2:02Where they say, yeah, yeah, he never said anything to her about Epstein files and his friends and people going to get exposed that he didn't want. He never said anything like that. What is the truth? The truth is he called me from the White House and I was in my office in the Rayburn building. And I had a very tough phone call with the president where he told me that his friends were going to get hurt. He said, people that you know Marjorie and Palm Beach. He said, they're my friends and they're going to get hurt if these files come out. And I said, I'm sorry, Mr. President. I'm not taking my name off that discharge petition. Jeffrey Epstein is a rapist. He's a pedophile. And these files need to come out. This is what we campaigned on. This is transparency. And the victims deserve it. I actually told him also I asked him to have these women to the White House, to the Oval Office.

3:05He has all kinds of people in the Oval Office. He has sports teams. He's a leader of Syria who is a former terrorist. Yeah. ISIS. He ISIS. He had mom Donnie, the new mayor of New York, who he constantly attacked and criticized. He will have anybody in the Oval Office. But he will not have the victims that were raped as teenage girls by Jeffrey Epstein and other men to the Oval Office. And I asked him to do that. And he absolutely refused. So I don't care what his people say. I will tell the truth. I've never again about that phone call. Just as I will tell the truth about the text messages where he said, and I informed him about the death threats that we had coming in on my own son. And I told him that it's, you know, I said no matter the disagreement and politics, no one's children should ever be threatened or murdered. It's totally unacceptable. And he told me it was my fault and that I deserved it.

4:06Yeah. I got the same message. When I said to him, look, I know what I signed up for. I know what my brother signed up for. I get it. I get the Frado shit. I think it's ethnically insulting. And you should know that as a guy who grew up around a lot of Italians, which he did. But I get all that. But you're making my kids own this. And it's not right. I don't go after his kids and they're all adults. Now he's forced my hand because the sons getting involved with these businesses that are getting government contracts is just stupid. I don't know why they're doing this. They don't need to do this. But I never went after his kids. Never even though they're adults. And he, I got the same message. This is on you. Be nice. And then you don't have to worry about it. Wow. So see, there's, if he said the same thing to you that he said to me about the death threats on my son, then he has a clear pattern of saying that. So he doesn't care if anyone's children die because, because we're disagreeing with him.

5:08Which shows this is why he doesn't care that children were bombed and murdered in Iran. He wouldn't care. He would say, I would deserve it. If my son were murdered because he's calling me a traitor for standing with women who were raped as teenagers. And he's saying the same thing to you that if something terrible were to happen to your children, well, you shouldn't have said what you said and you deserve it. Well, look, I'm sure he would say, I don't want to see kids get hurt. His higher value is though, you're against him. If you're against him, he doesn't say that. Chris, he'd never said that. I mean, he'll give me. He never said to me. No, he didn't say that. Oh, I believe he had have said that. If he had a bed, I don't want to see kids get hurt. Then I would be saying he said he didn't want to see kids, but he did not say that. He said, it's your fault. And you deserve it. He said, you deserve it. You deserve for your son to be killed for going against him to release Epstein files. That's what he said to me. So why do you think he allowed the Epstein transparency crowd?

6:12And remember, he put cash for tell and damn on Geno in positions of extraordinary power on the basis of this. That they were out front saying, oh, there's a lot in there. There's a lot in there. There's a lot in there. And then he never delivered. Why did he make it a part of the Maga campaign if he didn't ever intend to allow it to come out? I have no idea. I can't even begin to answer that question. I mean, isn't that crazy? If somebody came to you and said, hey, part of your next campaign is going to be like the three things that you hate about yourself. You would say, no, I don't want anything to do with that. I don't want that's not helpful to me. Why did he do it? I have no idea. I can't even begin to speculate. You know, I often think when I was reviewing for this, there are people in your position. Now, you got Nancy. I think, look, on Epstein, you have high ground. I mean, there's just no other way to see it. In my opinion, I'm not saying that people should be, you know, pilloried or canceled or whatever.

7:16But the idea of transparency is really simple. And that's what you guys were about. You Nancy Mace, APL, Anna Pulling Aluna. No, she didn't, she didn't sign her name on the discharge petition. There were only four of us, Thomas Massey, myself, Nancy Mace and Lauren Blurberg. And Lauren Bolbert, that's what I'm thinking. Lauren Bolbert. Yeah, Anna Pulling Aluna, she refused a signer name on the discharge petition. But do you see her as an ally in the Epstein transparency cause overall or no? No, I see her completely obedient to whatever the White House tells her to be. Which is why she didn't sign the discharge petition. She was just like the rest of the, all the Republicans were cowards. Chris, all of them. So first off, let's be clear, the Democrats never cared about the Epstein files. If they had, they would have gone hard charging into that during the four years they had control. Fair, you don't believe the delay Maxwell excuse where they said, oh, well, there was an ongoing litigation. No, no, I don't believe any of it because I never heard one single Democrat that I served West.

8:20And I served under Nancy Pelosi when she was speaker. I served all four years under a president Biden. And I never, ever heard a Democrat bring up the Epstein files. They only latched onto it when they found out, oh my gosh, people really care about this. This is a big deal. Then they heard us, they heard us talking about it. And then they latched onto it and all of a sudden they were all for it. So when it came to the discharge petition, you can only get a resolution or a bill to the floor for a vote. If only two ways. The speaker says, let's move the spielter committee and bring it to the floor for a vote. And then the second way is if the speaker refuses, which Mike Johnson had a lock on that resolution because he was being told by the White House and by Trump, do not let that bill, do not let it get a vote. So we had to create a discharge petition. Well, all the Democrats jumped on immediately because it was an attack on Trump and their eyes.

9:23But there were only four Republicans, and the rest of the Republicans were straight up cowards. Even though they had campaigned on release the Epstein files, they only voted for it because the public outrage was so immense for months through the government shutdown and the call of the months leading into that. It was the number one call that came into my office. And we received thousands of calls every single day. God bless my staff that had to go through all the voicemails and answer the phones. But it was the number one call for months and months and months. And the Republicans that finally did vote for it because four of us held on on the front lines as we were being attacked and yelled at and being threatened by Donald Trump and threatened by the White House and threatened by Speaker Johnson and threatened by everybody because we signed our name on there.

10:23Well, finally, when we passed that discharge petition and the resolution did come to the floor for a vote. Oh, all of a sudden all these Republicans found their courage and voted to release funds. Trump signed it. He had to. That was the one place we forced his hand. He had to because he couldn't politically survive it. And he also signed it. Chris, and let's be honest because look at what has happened. All the files have not been released because he is in charge of the DOJ. He's in charge of the FBI. He's in charge of the entire executive branch that controls that that key function. And do you have any question in your mind whether Todd Blanch and all these other people are being straight with the American people when they say, no, we've given you everything that there is. I'll say this very clearly every single one of them whether their intentions are good or bad or indifferent every single one of them serve at the pleasure of President Donald Trump. Therefore, every single one of them are under his directive and what he commands them to do.

11:29And that is the most significant thing that everyone needs to keep in mind when they are seeing a Todd Blanch or a Pam Bondi or a cash patelle or whomever it is. All of those people have their jobs because they were appointed those jobs by President Trump. Therefore, they are not going to cross him. They are not. I mean, look at the only people that have crossed it. You can, there's only a handful of us. You've got Joe Kim. He resigned. You've got myself Thomas Massey. Thomas Massey who just got taken out in his election. You've got Nancy Mays who just lost her election and you've got Lauren Bobert who President Trump has said he's calling for a primary on her. And Tulsi, you put Tulsi on that list? Well, Tulsi, she resigned with her husband's cancer. I think Tulsi did a very honorable job, but I wouldn't say Tulsi crossed the President.

12:29Well, I don't think it's crossing either. You don't take an oath to the President. You know, you take an oath of service. No, it's certain. And his name's not even in it. In terms of, you know, even in the office isn't in it. So when Maga folks say to you, you left us, Marjorie. I know that that's super frustrating to you because you believe you're still fighting for exactly what you thought it was about. But how do you explain the support of the President within Maga when a lot of the things that were supposed to be fundamental to Maga? Have either been ignored or actually counteracted? Well, the only place where I see those type of comments interestingly are on X and on Facebook. I only see those in my comments. I never run across that in person. I'm not kidding you. In person where I go to the grocery store, I go to restaurants, I go to the gym. I go everywhere like a normal human being and I never have anyone come up and say that to me.

13:31And so I think that's significant that the only place that exists is in the comments on social media. I also know that there's a prevalent bot problem on social media. And so I'm not saying all of these accounts are bots, but I do think a significant portion of them are bots because it's amazing to me. I can post something and I can instantly watch in less than a minute. All these comments, all of a sudden just line up. And it's shocking to me. I'm like, I don't think anybody could have watched that video and commented within 33 seconds. It just doesn't happen. And so that's a, that's, I don't really consider that reality. I consider the reality that I live in every day where I really enjoy talking to regular people. And most of them all say that I did the right thing because I held true to my beliefs and my positions. I didn't serve a man because I'm a Christian and I serve God.

14:33And I didn't swear enough to a man because I swear enough to the Constitution and the people I serve were the people in my district. And that's the problem in MAGA to where it comes from the top where it's a loyalty test constantly and it's a loyalty demand. And I'll give my, I'll not give my loyalty to any man because I'm not an occult. I'm not an occult. I don't serve some sort of weird religion where I have to do whatever some man says I have to do. Do you regret leaving public service and do you expect to return to it? I do not regret leaving the institution that has enslaved Americans in nearly $40 trillion in debt that does nothing to fix the healthcare and health insurance. A horrific situation that Americans were living in. I do not regret leaving the institution that refuses to do anything about the fiscal cliff that is approaching in just a few years with social security.

15:37And I do not regret resigning after being called a traitor and having my life threatened and my son's life threatened because I sit up for women who were victims of rape as teenagers. And I don't regret leaving a party that didn't even lift a finger or utter even word of support for me when I was being treated that way. So no, I don't regret it. Not one that I'm a normal person that actually fell for the fantasy and the lie that you can run for Congress and actually make changes. I tried to do that and I got there and found out this is a system that you can't change. You can't fix because the system is completely broken. So no, I don't regret it one single bit. Is Trump just a feature of this? Well, do you think you'll run again? I have no idea what the feature holds. So you're not you're not closed off 100% you'll see what happens. I'm just a type of person that in every area of my life I go, why have no idea what I'll do in this?

16:42So this is just like anything else. There are no ambitions right now. No, no ambitions, but I never had ambitions before either. Support for the Kris Pumel project comes from Quince. Let me tell you, I dig their stuff. I dig the shirts. I dig the quality. I dig the price point. I do believe that just because you can get a quality garment for less doesn't mean you should forget that it is quality. And that really is the secret behind Quince. Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe. I better staples. Nothing exotic, no weird accessories, but they're made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere organic cotton, marino wool, you know, all the right things. And the styles are timeless, they're classic. And that's that's really the sweet spot for me. They're 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters started like $60. That's an incredible value. And it's a luxury feeling and looking and wearing garment at a fraction of the price.

17:46Okay, so find your next fall favorites at Quince. Great place to shop for yourself or for someone else that you want to see look better. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash Cuomo and you'll get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. You can't lose. Just please tell them I sent you so that they know that I'm trying to help their business. Okay. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash Cuomo. We're some C heroes and other C egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com.

18:52Do you think this gives the best chance for Democrats to get a majority? I don't know. I don't know. I've got to say at some point, I know this. We're winning Democrats are over-performing by, I don't know, between eight probably 12 and a half, 13 points. In every election that's being run, everyone. I don't care where it is. It can be in Florida, it can be in Georgia, it can be in Texas. Anything that you look at. When the other thing that I find greatly encouraging for our future democracy is black voters are very agitated and turning out in unprecedented numbers. Secondly, you had the election, the most important thing that happened last night. But that with me was the Republican primary for governor of Iowa. There was always Trump's on a rampage. Everybody that he endorses wins, everybody else loses. He is in total control of the Republican party.

19:55Except it didn't work out in Iowa. I think you're going to see a vote out of these agrarian states, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa. I don't know if the show, a lot of Wisconsin, Minnesota. This man is destroying American agriculture. It's something I know about because I grew up agrarian. The increase said, I don't care about the price of gas. Let me tell you who pays about the price of petroleum. That's a fault. I tracked a few. They have fertilizer. They've got transportation costs. They also need immigration laws that allowed him to harvest season of labor. I'm making a share big, big, big, Eddie Throckboat in agrarian. There are also huge beneficiaries. I'm talking small farms. I'm talking agrar business. They solicit, encourage, motivate and compensate people for coming in illegally. They then reward them with jobs where they put them up in substandard houses with substandard wages. And those people want to put a lot of money into the economy.

20:59The bad guy here has always been a little misdiagnosed, in my opinion, because he should be busting the employers. And not someone who's made a guy who's a senator, who's made is from Honduras, and didn't come in or overstated a visa or whatever. That's not the threat. The threat is the big employers. But big money always wins. See, that's what I don't get. Why aren't you more? Not Bernie. Not Bernie. Because there's an idealism that seems to overshoot practicality with him. Go after the people who benefit from the bad system. Call out the bad system and go after that. That's the treasonous. That's the ruinous. That's the decay. Trump is just a big mouth who's going to be gone in two years. Well, first of all, he's been gone in how much destruction and how much, how much is he or do you think he's not going to be gone? You think he won't leave? Can I answer your question? Can I have a better question? I like the new question. I might not like corporate agriculture. Okay, I got to pick my targets. Get 50 things that I don't like. All right. But I got to pick one of them. I might I got to pick my target in my target, who I think is the most destructive person in the United States happens to be our president.

22:11And I cannot get that across with enough depth and enough passion. Right. To see that. And I got to tell you, you know, everybody cheesed what they want. Here's what they want. But boys, I travel around this country. I'm a little bit of a walk in billboard. There are a lot of people that agree with me and not just no question. No question. You would usually expect more than ever. More than ever. I just wonder who you leave in on the table by saying I hate this guy. I have TDS. I know he's the worst. He's treasonous. Right. I know. I don't think you're lying. I'm saying I wonder how many independence are like. All right. Well, you've you've you've gotten a little bit too upset about this, Jimmy. And you got to calm down and tell me how you're going to make it better. A lot of people have asked me to calm down. Right. I'm not asking you to calm down. You're pointing out that you're different. Whatever you do. Understand. I I think this is. And by the way, independence is broken from Trump. I'm depending. I could go.

23:14We could do it half hour show on independence and how you define them because everybody has their own definition independence. If you see a poll that has more than 10% independent, throw the poll out. It's not accurate. They don't how to ask the question. But even there when you he's lost 20% of the Republicans, you say, well, in 97% of the Democrats against him. Well, assume it's a 40 40 20 country, 40 Republican 40 Democrat 40 independent 87% of 40 is a substantially bigger number than 80% of 40. So you you're going to have a lot of democratic movement just as a result of self identified Democrats yourself, down fight Republicans. He's under water with the best definition independence. He's probably under water 40 points. Just that's sustainable. But I agree. Can we get to know I just wonder if you're helping him. I don't know. I'd be coming like him. I don't know. I got to do what I think. I got to do what I feel. I don't think I'm like him. I'm not a criminal.

24:18I've never been convicted of a felony. I've never bought and traded stocks in the middle of a ward and I knew what was getting ready to happen. I've never done any of these things. I was asked by somebody who wants to do something. You're in the January 6th riot as I'll tell you what the difference is. I'm not a criminal. I didn't assault the capital. I didn't beat up a police officer. I use my Constitution given God given right to speak out and say my mind. And I don't I've never advocated that anybody ever break a law. Because that that would be the most I think. But I do know what he's doing. I do know about all of this. This is just lazy stop trading. It's all been public. It's all been documented. I do know this is going. Oh, I do know that he said he could care less about the war that Americans at risk that are overworking that are open deployed that are over everything. I do know he said he doesn't ever think about the American families finances when he's making a decision. I know that happened. I am not a criminal.

25:18I point out what I see. And it is at some point. The other hand, I don't see even see any wisdom in the other hand. That's how passionate I am about this. But I am not a criminal. You are not a criminal. You're nothing like a January 6th or January 6th or is somebody who decided the system no longer mattered as much as their own ambition as their own outrage. And that they would take things into their own hands and break the law and it was okay. And they were right. Because Trump did everything he could to not just motivate him to do that, but to save them from what they decided to do. And that's what this slush fund was, which was by the way when I decided to have this conversation with you. When I saw that even on the right, one of the only benefits of them running away from their job and ducking out on the war powers resolution was that they got to hear at home, hey, this slush fund, insulating him from ever getting audited again, given a money paying the people from January 6th.

26:26What the fuck with my money in the name of 1776 on our 250 at birthday, you're doing this. They came back, as you know, but just for the audience, they came back, went to Johnson and said, you got to stop this first. We cannot own this. We have owned too much already. We will not even give you votes on things that we need to do like CBP and Homeland Security. We're not going to do it. You got to get rid of this. He went, he met with Trump. He told them I'm scared about the caucus. I haven't heard him like this before. You got to back off. And he did. And it made me realize that there is still space for these people and certainly regular people to respond to what's in their best interests. And best interest for American families is not hearing that I got to vote Democrat because Trump is a piece of shit who may want to ruin the country. It's going to be, I'm going to give these people power because I believe there's a chance that they'll do something about the things I know are wrong. That's the space, Jimmy, as I see it.

27:34First of all, he didn't have votes. So sweet said, I don't have the votes. All right. He wanted to do it. Understand it. It's motivation. No question. No question. If you talk about it again, the fact that he couldn't do it by losing five votes in the Republican House. I don't know how much he would have lost. It would have been much more than I have, but that's plenty enough to kill it. Now we have this idiot arch that we're trying to deal with. And so much of what Trump does, Chris, is not just that it's ghosts, it's stupid, it's undignified. It's it's it's part of what I see is he doesn't like our country. He doesn't like our values. Our capital city is built on small or Republican values. So it doesn't look anything like London. It doesn't look anything like for side. All right. But because that's not what we do. We don't do ghosts. We do tasteful Republican architecture to reflect what the country is. He doesn't even understand that. He doesn't understand anything about the origin of this country. He's using the 250th anniversary. But he's in frankly, he's in barricade in the country. The concert and the fact that no one will do it. And I got every D minus level in a tanker.

28:58And I'm not going to do this. So I go back to my central point is I think he is a threat to the United States. And this all I see here does nothing but buttress my argument. I don't think even knows what the United States is. Well, maybe they're changed after the Civil War. I know that is true. I see it as a look. I think it's E. Pluribasuna. I think it's an entity. I think it's an is. And I think we got to emphasize that much more than what you see is the current point of emphasis. I don't disagree with you about your analysis. And you know, I was thinking the other day and talking with Andrew my Andrew my brother about the difference and he put this really well. The mistake of the Democrats is that they want everybody to be offended at what they're offended by and to be offended and to punish the other side for how offended they are. And that that's been a mistake and that people are tired of people telling them how to feel and who's bad and what's wrong. And that you need to be instead of being offended, you need to be offensive.

30:04And you have to go at your opponents and blame them for what's wrong and make sure these lawmakers are being told constantly you own this, you own this. I'm running against you and you own what he says you own what he does. And don't tell me that you don't say what he says. No, no. If you don't speak against it, well, you ignore you and power and you own be offensive be on offense be attacking what's wrong and saying it's got to change. And I'm here to change it. Maybe I didn't do it in the past, but I see it differently now and our politics is all about rebirth that that's the space. And I think that you're given up that space if you get because people are going to follow your lead. I'm seeing it already. And I respect that about you. But the idea of I can out Trump Trump, I don't know that that gets you where you want to be in the midterms and isn't that what matters is winning the most elections. Now, Chris, be sure you were other seas to follow what I'm getting ready to say. All right. In the 90s, the late 90s, I decided on my own that Ken Star was a threat.

31:09It was not a good guy that just was all hypocrisy and parsing crap. People were going, oh my God, you can't say that about Jared Stollman. He's, oh God, he's a man of integrity. He served him a court of appeals. Oh my God. You know what? It was one word to describe me. Correct. In 2021, early 2021, I said, this identity, woke shit is killing Democrats. They need to get out of that. It's stupid. It's politically not not always it not productive. It's damning. You know what? I was right. Throughout 2023 on your show repeatedly, I said Joe Biden should not run for reelection. I went so far as to say on July to 7th of the year 2024 that he should drop out in president Clinton, President Obama should invite six people and have four town halls around the country. You know what? I was right. In each and every one of these situations, I was told by the smart people, oh no, this is not good. You don't understand. You got to do this.

32:16And I am convinced, more convinced that I'm right about this, that I was right about star. There was right about woke. And I was right about Biden not running for president. That is my history. And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I didn't come to this lightly. I just like when I said Biden shouldn't be running for reelection. I called people said, man, I'm, you know, I've never done this for my life. I love Joe Biden. I can't believe how much I like him. And I can't believe I do this. I just, but I cannot see a way out until a person said James, you got to do what you feel. And I can understand how you feel that way. And that's where I am now. And like I said, I'll give myself credit. In their 80s, you get to brag on yourself a little bit. I've been right on three big issues and I'm convinced I'm right on the fourth. I look, I don't know that you're wrong. It's about whether or not it motivates the change that you want to say. I don't know. I'm not arguing that you're wrong about Trump. That's, that's an easy. That's easy. It's about whether or not you're right about what wins more elections. And let's look at it through the prism of past in prison. Do you believe that what you're saying right now beats Bill Clinton's approach that he took against Reaganomics and Bush.

33:34So no one ever thought in the deepest inner resources that present great and present Bush didn't like the country. All right. That called in during that situation, you said, look, I completely disagree. Trickle down. I completely disagree with with with cutting food stamps or why I have a different vision of the social segment. I know I had no point did Bill Clinton or anybody around here, anybody in this government remotely think that that Bob Dole was acting intentionally against the interest of the country. It is a different time. This is this is the time where we're not this is not Bob Dole. All right. This is not George Pataki. This is not governor Tom Kane of New Jersey. This is an imminent threat to the United States and calls for different tactics. Then you run against someone who you think has the wrong ideas and the wrong parties.

34:38Where some see heroes and other see egos Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise. We follow the money learn more at Bloomberg dot com. Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from noble N O B L. Let me tell you it's worth remembering especially now is it's back to school time of year. We're packing off the kids and you got all the weird duffels and the zippers and the this and I need this and I don't have a charger and this thing doesn't roll in the way. This is why you go to noble and OBL dot com people finally put intelligence into air travel specifically luggage right it's such a hassle. Imagine if it was easier even at the TSA where everything just has a place goes into this one suitcase this one roller bag and you go right through TSA and then everything's right there.

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36:59off right after your purchase to say where do you hear about us please show me some love say Cuomo sent me. What do you think happens that doesn't happen with Republicans what do you think has to happen differently. I mean Trump has shown that our institutions are not sacrosanct I mean he has barrelled through everything to get what he wants he's barrelled to not bad yes but my argument is that you don't do it for self enrichment you don't do it for vanity projects you don't do it to consolidate power for yourself you do it to deliver for people you know the example that that I often point to is like look how close we were to voting rights reform but Democrats thought it was more important to adhere to protecting the filibuster then actually getting that legislation passed and I think that something happens when you get to DC some some type of DC brain rot where you think that your job becomes to defend the institutions of government as opposed to ensuring that the government can actually deliver for people you were not there to defend the filibuster you were there to deliver for your constituents and because we weren't able to pass voting rights reform now we're in a world where they don't have it we're in a world where we're watching black opportunity districts disappear throughout the entire South

38:22I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 there are no opportunity districts in Republican run states and that black representation has been completely eliminated we defer to these institutions at the same time that Republicans show a blatant disregard for them and so that asymmetry just creates a playing field that we're never going to win on and so I hear what you're saying it's not in the look you you know as well as anybody it is not in the Democrats it is not in the Democrats DNA to consolidate power so that they can enrich themselves and build monuments to themselves it's just not in their DNA Democrats are way too precious about government precious to a fault about government these are die hard institutionalists at their core so I think that we have to be less precious about these institutions and way more precious about delivering for people because frankly Chris like you you also know this just as well as anybody else does which is we have a very disillusioned population they became disillusioned with the Democrats which led to a massive victory for Republicans and now because Republicans refused to deliver on their promises because they watched cost rise healthcare get gutted new wars in the Middle East start the Epstein files continue to get suppressed now people are disillusioned with that party so I think we're going to have one more bite at the apple from an electorate that's already at their wit send to gain power and show that we can do something with that power but then we have to actually

39:51do something with that power okay this is a great conversation good now I'm wearing this because this is what wins in the midterms and for good reason and you should be wearing this and this is what you guys should be about I am not about your party I do think you are nowhere near the level of downside that magga is the most toxic populist movement that is devoured a party that I've ever seen Trump is a huge part of that but he's not the only part of it so is there opportunity does the country want different are they sick of the fringe are they sick of magnified minorities are they suspicious of the algorithm yes yes yes everything's going in your direction the direction of change there in power that's the best thing you got going for you you are now the disruptors there's so many levels of nuance here that you guys have to negotiate in order to get to where you want to be the biggest one is what you're outlining in the book how to use power which is so smart and that's why I'm happy to lock the book for you because I actually think it's a good critical thinker literacy guide you should read it you don't have to agree with everything that Brian puts out obviously but it'll make you think about the right questions

41:13the answers come in there a function of preference I am anti party but that is a luxury right I am anti party because I know what Washington and Jefferson and Hamilton and Madison and Monroe and Teddy wrote all of them said which is the party's will kill us they are killing us but we are where we are in the rules are what they are and they're not going to change I call for a constitutional convention I'm like a poor man's Thomas pain you know I'm trying to change the framework this is a luxury this is an academic conversation I get it now the filibuster I believe is a great fulcrum for this conversation if the institutions are not protected respected and used instead of abused everything will break the filibuster is frustrating as hell you would have had a lot of change that you don't have now so would trump and I think more than ever we can't rule off a simple majority we're too crazy Brian we need sixty votes for the next supreme court justice and now it's over it's just a simple majority and that is killing us you guys started it with Harry read and now you pay in for it with the supreme court are you sure you want to get rid of it

42:38where some see heroes and other see egos bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes while others follow the noise we follow the money learn more at bloomberg dot com you said everything will break my contention here my retort to that is everything is broken and so we can make the conscious decision to sit here and do nothing or we can do whatever we have to do to get something else done like there is no world in which and i remember people always say um aren't you worried that if you do this republicans will abuse it republicans are already abusing it so are we going to not act for fear of republicans doing something that they're doing right now we are watching don't trump barrel through all of these institutions were to we're watching the republican party not lift a finger as he shatters the emoluments clause mean this guy this that you can make the argument good faith that don't want to have been acting in the best interest of this country because he's acting to consolidate more wealth

43:43for himself we know that the u a that guitar are are pouring money into world liberty financial we know that don't want to his opening we're inking real estate deals in foreign countries and are far and fall asleep because of the sun and don junior and Eric and so and so are foreign policy taxpayer funded foreign policy is being dictated by what's going to be to the best benefit of this family yes and so again I think that I get everything you're saying and look I also am not somebody who wants to tear government down I want government to work but I wanted to work like government can't just work so that we can watch different processes and norms and traditions block any progress that's what government is about why do you think the republicans are holding off on getting rid of the filibuster this is the most extreme the most craving faction I've ever seen running government they're not holding off on eliminating the filibuster they've

44:49eliminated the filibuster for their priorities they've eliminated the filibuster for confirming judges they've eliminated the filibuster for passing tax cuts which they do often and they do it to the disproportionate benefit of millionaires and billionaires so the tax the filibuster is gone for republican priorities the filibuster exists for progress the filibuster exists for climate change legislation for the freedom to vote act for the new you change the filibuster on judges not them right you know you did it yeah I mean Harry read it seemed to ignore that makes me want to grab that look no I didn't hear and say don't you know it you know it was it was a little bit before my time I will I will admit but now you're playing that I'm an old man now you're playing this card you are playing the gray hair you know history you're smart and you do your homework before your time I can't take ownership Chris over over what I mean that was I was I was I was I was I was I was black and I'm just saying that's why it happened the republican said don't do it I was too I understand and he did it to get around the recess appointments and then they did it for the Supreme Court if it goes

45:55it's got to mean something to you BTC that they don't want to lose it all together it means they know it means that they recognize that democrats will disproportionately benefit from being able to have no barrier to passing progressive legislation I mean what else do republicans want to pet they want to pass the save America act I understand that they want to do that first of all they're not there's not enough support for them to do that but second of all they know the risks of limiting the filibuster because then the person was one ban they might pass some crazy corporate deregulations but you have to remember political gravity exists too so they can pass bills saying that everybody has to pay Donald Trump a dollar when they say his name that's all well and good it might pass mustard but voters get a say in this stuff too you can pass a muslim ban voters get a say in this stuff you can pass a vote a blatant voter suppression bill voters get a say in this no of course with the voter suppression bill that may that may have ramifications on their ability to have a say

46:57on this so that's a little bit of an outlier but remember unpopular policy will not will not read down to their political benefit and they've got midterms coming up they you know their voters go to the ballot box just as much as democratic voters do so so yes they can do that and they can think about this like these people don't have good policy instincts and they don't have good policy positions so sure they would be they would be unmoored in terms of in terms of what they're able to do but them passing legislation that mandates that mandates you know only fossil fuels used in energy is not going to be popular them passing legislation that says you know only white Christian men can vote is not going to be popular I mean they can go all the way to the end of the year would you create a mechanism that allows the frenzy of the moment to dictate even when it goes against

47:59the common the collective conscience I mean and it depends on the issue Brian you know yes there's a whole story of how fraught the democratic situation was in the last election and I definitely believe you guys lost it he didn't win it he shed no business winning let alone get in the most votes in the modern era that was on the democrats and you should learn that lesson I don't know that you have immigration okay you're on the wrong side of that issue in terms of the American people buy a lot okay um overall taxation now it's shifting but you've been on the wrong side culture issues you've been on the wrong side you're a bunch of cancelling uh you don't believe in living what live you know it's it's it's you've been wrong on things so where the country is is not always where you are especially now you know I don't buy in that the dsa is going to

49:00change us from capitalism I have a terrible argument because they keep saying they want to change and so every time I say look yeah you're not going to get me with that boogie man people more worried about the reality than what the remedy is and then people say Cuomo it's right here it's right here get rid of capital I know I know it is it's so stupid I wish they would stop saying that but you guys weren't always on the right side you know let me let me let me propose something to you let's say the democrats are able to pass one of their signature pieces of legislation legislation that was so important they presented it to the House of Representatives first HR one the freedom to vote act one of the provisions in the freedom to vote act was a provision banning partisan gerrymandering nationwide when you have districts love you have districts where they're not r plus 70 and d plus 80 yes what happens to congress and in turn what happens to the willingness of those

50:03members of congress to pass the most extreme legislation yes this would fix the principal issue that you're complaining about which is okay now you've got a political party in power with only a simple majority threshold to pass to change the situation but if you have people there that didn't have to pander to the farthest fringes of both parties yes you can pass legislation that's going to help people yes so I have a better provision for your HR one by the way because I don't think you guys would pass no gerrymandering I think that you like it too and you like it too and this is about people in power and retaining power now what you could do and I think it's constitutional because by the way your rule may not be constitutional my rule may not be constitutional either I like your rule by the way I'm just not sure it would pass muster depends on the court takes us to another problem but I'll tell you what you should do there should be a rule that political parties

51:08cannot control primaries now the supreme court has ruled on this and they have said yeah they can they get to determine who's in their club just like any other club ah yes but there is no country club running my democracy and that's what makes this different and it wasn't argued in that case what was argued in the case was Brian doesn't get to tell Chris who's allowed to be in his club Chris gets to say who gets to be in his club okay we agree on that okay yeah that's not the issue Congress should pass a law a Democrat should push that the primaries cannot be closed they have to be open or you do a top two top four some type of rank choice has to be involved if you do that I think that the American people win I also think your party wins by the way but let's say it doesn't let's say it's neutral that would be a huge fix for the problem we have right now which is what one third of the population has over 50% of the representation and I think that

52:13other than changing the Senate which we can't do you're not going to change the electoral college need a constitutional amendment well no you need the national popular vote the national popular vote interstate compact that could that could be a way to circumvent the electoral college right but then the states have to do it you know what I mean then you're asking for states you know the comp the compact is a nice way of saying hurting cats yeah um and states could pull out of it see that's the one problem we're getting rid of the filibuster so you pass HR one and it's got both of these things in it in a passes by very slim majority but now it's the law of the land and then you lose in the midterms they come in and they reverse that's the problem of no filibuster is that you are really now in whimsy mode on a regular basis and I fear the proposals will get more and more extreme because you have more and more of a limited window to get things done well I mean you know look what was the most unpopular bill of the 2010s it was the ACA when Obama passed it led to it led to a massive exodus of democrats in the house and the new cost Obama his presidency

53:20republicans have tried to repeal at 77 times and they failed every time so never try to improve it though never tried to improve it never tried to do a single damn thing to make it any better and that's the space for you that people now recognize perhaps but but I mean the the risk with attacking legislation that is otherwise popular is that then you own taking it away and and even these people look they they even even the biggest partisans in the house in the senate want to be elected the next term and I remember I remember their efforts to destroy the ACA being a death now for a lot of these republicans it was one in New Jersey it's been a long time it's been like 15 years but like was his name McCarthy I can't remember his name exactly the bald guy I think he actually was in charge of one of the the repeal and replace provisions but in any case he a lot of these people lost their jobs so sure you can you can immediately come into power and try and rescind

54:25what the other party just passed but if what the other party just passed is popular again I'm going to go back to my initial thesis which is political gravity exists for these people were some see heroes and other see egos bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes a fad to some the future of money to others we see crypto's trillion dollar swings the end of jobs or the end of human struggle we see the endless funds fueling the AI hype while others follow the noise we follow the money learn more at bloomberg.com