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About this Episode
HRRN's I Ask, They Answer with trainer Dale Romans and turf writer Tim Wilkin. Presented by the University of Louisville Equine Industry Program in the College of Business
Transcript
This is I ask the answer on the Equine Forum on HRR.
Wayne's law is still in front at the quarter pole.
It's Wayne's law.
Game for it.
Trying to push on by.
Renegade continues that four wide sweep.
Ocele got stopped there.
Confessionals going to need a seam as they wind around in the top of the stretch.
Here comes Renegade.
Renegade trying to come after Wayne's law.
The Puma looking for room in behind.
Then comes Game for it.
Confessionals back to the inside.
And Ocele renegade takes over from Wayne's law who's a stubborn foe.
But Renegade inching clear late.
Renegade.
And I ran over to junior to win the Sam F Davis.
They won it by three in the end.
Wayne's law ran a big one for second.
The Puma was third.
Game for it for it.
Well, Renegade picked up his first career victory in the Sam F Davis last time out.
Jocke Erod or T's junior has chosen to stick with him.
And today's Arkansas Derby over fountain of youth winner.
Commandment in the Florida Derby.
Here what Dallin Tim have to say about that decision.
Plus, which Florida and Arkansas Derby winner are Dallin Tim most surprised didn't win
the Kentucky Derby.
And what is going on with so many high profile trainers calling it quits?
Those topics and much, much more are straight ahead.
On this week's edition of I Ask the Answer, would trainer Dall Romans and Turf Rider Tim
Mokin all presented by the University of Louisville, equine industry program in the college
of business.
And all starting just 30 seconds from right now.
A spark turns into a dream and your dreams fuel a love that will last a lifetime.
Turn your passion into a career with experienced guidance, a thorough study of equine business
as well as opportunities to get your hands dirty and put your mind to work located in the
heart of course country.
Let your passion fuel your profession at the UofL equine industry program apply today.
All right, guys, a loaded show plenty to talk about.
You'll be happy to know that other than this first topic, all of the other topics submitted
by our listeners.
So you got to bear with me and my question here and I'm going to start with a game of
complete this sentence.
And I've got two of them for you here this morning.
And we're going to start with this one.
Erad Ortiz has written both Florida Derby contender commandment and Arkansas Derby favorite
renegade in their last two starts.
His decision to stick with the Todd Plutcher trained renegade this afternoon says what Tim
Wilken.
It says loyalty to Todd Plutcher is what I'm saying because you know, he's written renegade
all three starts.
He's written commandment three of the four for Brad Cox.
But you look down the road, you know, during the like the Saratoga meat where I read dominates
one of his main clients is Todd.
Last year Todd had 32 winners and 12 of them were written by Ira, which comes out to
about 37% of my math's right.
And you know, he was 32 of he was 32 starts in six thirty two of his horses that he wrote
for Todd.
He was in the money 62% of the time and I have to thank Round of Norby and Equalbase
for those stats.
But you know, I think that, you know, he does ride for Brad Cox too.
But you know, Todd's bread and butter so I think he's going to stick with him and, you
know, renegade's a nice horse.
Dale complete that sentence.
What does it say about erotic junior in his decision to choose renegade?
It speaks volumes for renegade.
He must really like him.
I don't think has anything to do with training or loyalty when it comes down to Kentucky
debris.
The only thing you're loyal to is that little gold trophy and you're going to ride the
best three year old you can get on.
That's why we all do it and every trainer we're going to understand.
I don't know, Todd, but if he thought that's I read, Todd, he thought the other horse
gave him a better chance to win the derby so I just think it speaks volumes for the horse.
Tim, do you think that renegade's a better horse than commandment?
I'll ask me that later today.
Dale, you see commandment down there in Florida is renegade the better horse?
I'm impressed with commandment, but as a matter of what Tim and I think it's what I read
things for him.
I think he is.
All right.
Well, the Arkansas Derby, Florida Derby, both taking place this afternoon.
I'm going to ask you about the Florida Derby next.
Tim, complete this sentence.
Today's Florida Derby will what?
It will be a repeat of the last one of what found to you when commandment defeated Chief
Wallaby by a neck, but I think it's going to be changed.
The order is going to be changed.
I think Chief Wallaby is going to catch, he's catching up.
This is only the third star, but you know, he showed so much talent in his last race.
I think he turns the tables on commandment, but I think it's going to be a ding-dong finish
between those two and don't forget nearly he's in there too.
Dale, today's Florida Derby will complete it.
Be the coming out party for Chief Wallaby, you'll move to the top of the list.
Wow.
You like him that much?
I like him that much.
I like him last race, but you know, for Bill to run a horse from his first start,
made in race seven, they took a mile into the fountain of use, and for him to run as
well as he did, scat the limit.
Does Bill Mock go back-to-back in the Kentucky Derby?
What's that?
Does Bill Mock go back-to-back in the Kentucky Derby?
It wouldn't surprise me at all.
Dale, you've seen him in the mornings.
I haven't seen him in the mornings, so I'm not there, but does he remind you anything
of sovereignty?
No, I haven't seen him in the mornings either, he's up at pace and fork.
I'm at co-string part, but I don't know, sovereignty was a special horse bill, so he won the
best he's ever trained in his life.
I don't know if it's horse on that level yet, but I thought it was pretty impressive to
run one start and come back and run the way he did in the fountain of use.
Why do you take a ride up there much that horse?
Yeah, that's what I should do.
I've never been there in my life.
I thought he should one time.
I said, when he's going, call me.
I want to go ride up with him, just check it out, but I don't think he wants to spend
an hour and a half with him.
And a car with me, he's never called.
Actually, it'd be three hours, right?
Yeah, about three hours, an hour and a half up and an hour and a half back, but he has
been at four hours with me, Monday, we're playing golf at his club.
Oh, he's golf's different.
Yeah, yeah, I think he's going to take his home card.
They let you with that club?
Believe me, I'm the broken person ever been in that club.
It's the billionaire bunker.
I mean, it's an amazing place.
The golf course sits on a little island in the houses of circle at our Jeff Bezos,
Zuckerberg, Ivanka, Trump, Julio Eglaceous, and then it'll be me and Sergei, they're playing
golf.
Jesus, Dale, you're like elf-servic, you know what I mean?
No, but it's probably somebody who rides a hotel with someone else.
No, Mike, you know what elf-servic is, don't you?
No.
The Rodney Dangerfield character from Caddy Shack.
It'll be very similar, right?
Yes, yeah, I had forgotten about that to me, yes, right?
I'll, I'll enjoy that club because I wouldn't be a member of any club that would have
me as a member.
All right.
Make sure the name of the course isn't Bushwood.
Yeah.
All right, let's move on to our next topic here.
Shane in North Carolina wants to know which of the following Florida and Arkansas Derby
winners from the past decade are you most surprised, didn't win the Kentucky Derby?
And he gives you some choices here, guys.
Firstness, who was 15th in 2024, White Abario, who was 16th in 2022, he had known agenda
Sandman, Cyberknife, Magnum Moon, Classic Empire.
Timmy, which of those surprised you most that they did not win the Kentucky Derby?
Well, go heading into those each prospective race, the one that would surprise me the most
was fierceness.
I mean, he had won the Florida Derby by a record, 13 and a half lengths, he was favoured
in the Kentucky Derby and really, that was back when it seemed like fierceness ran
one good one, then ran one bad one, he got over that because he hit the summer that year,
obviously.
But of the whole, all the horses on this list, I would think fierceness is the one that
surprised me the most that, you know, maybe not that he didn't win, but he didn't, he
never really contend that that's my biggest surprise of this list.
He had to say fierceness, you're right, you're fissioness, so it's a, it looked like
he couldn't get beat if he ran the way he did in the Florida Derby, but Classic Empire
was a good one too.
You know, he never had a chance, he got eliminated at the break, I was a part of that, I got
eliminated with him, not that my horse was going to win anyway, but he was another good
one.
Yeah, White Abario, you know, White Abario looking at what he's gone on to do after that 16th
place finish in the Florida Derby is somewhat interesting to me on this list.
You know, but in that race, Mike, when he went to the Derby, I think he was like 15 to
one in the Derby.
Yeah.
He wasn't getting a lot of, a lot of love, you know, but then again, you don't see a lot
of really, you know, heavy favorites in the Kentucky Derby, it's great betting race
every year.
I mean, I was a little bit of a little surprise that he went off that high after, but then
again, White Abario, you won four of his first five, we're all a golf stream, and that
was the stigma that's chased him around for his whole career, even though he won the
Whitney in Saratoga, was that either the golf street horse?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, until he went to California and took the breeders cup classic.
Well, that was the same, yeah, right, for you won the Whitney.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Shane, good question there, my friend.
Tom and St. Louis has the next topic for us, guys.
He wants to know about all of the high profile trainers that racing has lost this month,
including guys like John Kimmel and Tom Amos, Roger Apfield, Martin Drexler and Eddie
Police, a junior who all have announced their retirement here this month.
So I'm going to ask you, Dale, what the heck is going on here?
Tough game, tough way to make a living anymore, and these guys have all done well.
They saw the best of horse racing.
All the changes coming in, I just think you'll see a change into the guard.
It's not the same game we all started out in.
No, it's exactly what Eddie Police has said.
Yeah, it is.
It's different.
But things changed.
You know, Alan Jerkis, I was winning one day when he was 84 years old, 10 years ago,
or something, I was wondering about all the changes.
He says, he's been changing, so I was 17, either change with it or get out.
And these guys just decided to probably just where they are in their life, and I'm sure
they're all financially secured, decided to get out, they didn't want to play it the way
they have to play now.
I can 100% understand it.
Dale, what is it about today's environment with horse racing that makes it so difficult
for a trainer to make a living?
Well, it's just like anybody who live anyway, you know, expenses are way up on everything
of bag of feed, a bell of hay, the payroll for the grooms, and then you have all the
new paperwork and legal stuff that we never fool with before, whether it's good or bad,
it's different.
And, you know, you just don't want to learn it over at 60-something years old, which
you always guys are at least in their 60s, and you just don't want to learn a new way
of doing things.
I mean, for the guys coming up behind us, it's all they'll ever know, and it's not going
to be a problem for them.
They can just choke on, but I don't blame them at all.
You know, do you want to change everything you've done for 40 years when you're in your
60s or just right off into the sunset?
How big of a roll do the heiser regulations play in a lot of these decisions, Dale?
Probably quite a bit, quite a bit, I mean, it's the biggest things paperwork, it's just
paperwork after paperwork after paperwork, and if you don't get it right, they find you.
You know, a lot of us on computer savvy, we're not, you know, this one recently worked
in a barn or a whole life, and you know, do you want to start trying to figure it out
through your full-time people just to do it for you and cut into any money you're making?
And I think they just decided to say, no, I mean, you know, Tom's got his TV gig, and
I'm sure he's done well.
He saved his money, he's smart guy, and the same thing with the rest of them.
If I were to decide to quit here soon, at least I'll have a radio gig, it'd be 150 a week.
150, where'd that come from?
Or a writer or a quarter or whatever you'd bring.
Timmy, what do you got for us?
Look at these guys, and Roger, I feel 86 years old, he wants to sit back and smell the
roses even though, you know, he's one of the biggest names in Canadian racing ever.
He's going to remain an owner and a breeder, he's staying in the game.
John Kimmel's staying in the game, he's been a bloodstock agent for three or four years
and was involved with the purchase of, among other horses, Chancer McPatrick for Flanagan
Racing, and that horse became a double grade, a dual grade one winner.
Tommy Amos has said, you know, he's stepping back, but he's also going to be a bloodstock
agent, and he's still going to be at the barn.
He wants to be an advisory, an advisory capacity for young Ken and LaRose, who I think will
do a fantastic job, like we talked about last week.
Martin Drexler, another Canadian trainer, said he's only 55, I think.
He said he's going to take some time up, but he's not ruling out, coming back, and at
the place, you know, his day is already touched on that, it's just the cost and the difference
in the game now is, and he's healthy, he wants to spend some time with his wife and do
other things.
He's going to settle his last horse today, and in the Florida Derby with timeless victory,
wouldn't that be a great story if he were able to go out with a win on top in that race?
So I think if he wins this race, he'll be around for another one.
Yeah, I think you're probably right, he wouldn't walk away then, but I think his horse
to see, he's only got a handful of horse, I think they're going to go to his brother-in-law
John Serves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to read this quote, guys, since we're talking about this from Roger Atfield.
He gave a quote to JJ Heisel, who's a reporter here, does a great job.
He said, all of my life, I have always been a hands-on trainer, and now at 86, I can no
longer ride out on my pony with sets and unable to safely inspect them in the stalls.
Both of these things always help me understand my horse's needs mentally and physically to
get the very best from them.
No longer being able to perform these duties properly, it's time to say, Austin LaVista.
Great quote from Roger Atfield, Dale, I'm sure you can relate.
You've always been hands-on.
Yeah, it's just cool.
I mean, it's physically taxing, and I don't know how he does a 86, but him and Wayne
both.
Wayne's 90 years old getting on his horse pony riding out there every day, but it's physically
mentally draining job.
I don't know what time to get up every morning.
You know, I don't get up at early, I get up about six, seven o'clock.
But it's an all day job.
It is an all day job, and you never turn it off.
I mean, it's day and night.
It's always on your mind, and it's always seen as somebody calling or taking care of a
problem, and not only training horses, you're running a business, and we all got a bunch
of employees.
You got government regulations, and now I have some regulations, and it's not just going
to the barn and taking care of horses anymore.
Yeah.
You got a better question, Tim, is what time does Tammy get up every morning?
I'm sure she's up by four.
She's always yelling at me to get up.
Get out.
Get out.
I love it.
Dale getting his beauty rest.
Okay.
Let's move on.
We say hello to our friend, Nick Zito.
Alan Tim, get the chance to tell me if the following statement is right or wrong.
Yeah, right or wrong.
Am I right?
What are you thinking?
Right or wrong?
We got to get Nicky back on the show.
I love when he does that for us.
Sean in Pennsylvania gives us this topic, and I'm guys, I'm going to take a little bit
of liberty with Sean's question.
He asked if any Kentucky Derby winner has ever gone turf to dirt with their last
prep race before the Kentucky Derby, you know, running on grass, then switching to
dirt for the Derby.
The point system really doesn't encourage the turf to dirt option, but if a horse won
enough points to make the cut in some early prep races, would a trainer give this one
a shot?
And to tie this back to Nick Zito, would adding three-year-old turf races to the Derby
point system be the right or wrong move?
What do you think?
Right or wrong?
Tim, what do you think?
First part of the question.
I don't believe the horse has ever had his final prep race on the turf before going
to the Derby.
Although animal kingdom in 2011 had never raced on dirt before the Derby, he'd had one
race on the turf.
I think these other two or three were on the synthetic.
He won the spiral, which is now the Jeff Ruby.
In Big Brown, he broke his maiden on the grass up in Saratoga as a two-year-old.
And who knows what would have happened if the second start wasn't washed off the grass?
He won that going away by 12.
And then he obviously dominated the Florida Derby, dominated the Kentucky Derby, then he
went on and dominated the precincts too.
But, you know, I know turf racing has become a lot more popular.
But because I'm going to say it's wrong, as far as putting it on the schedule for the
prep races, because the Kentucky Derby has always been, it is the horse race for America,
maybe the world.
And I think the prep races should all be on dirt before that race.
Nothing against horses is on turf, but I think, again, I'm not a trainer, but I would
think that if you were going to train a horse to run in the Kentucky Derby, you want
to train them on the turf.
They all can tell me if I'm wrong on that.
I don't know if you're wrong about that, but I don't think you should give points to
turf races, because what you end up doing is getting a true turf horse.
Maybe you never even run on dirt just taking a shot, because it's Kentucky Derby, and
not somebody out that has, might have a legitimate chance.
I will say that I'm covering third in the Derby twice in both horses.
I prepped on the turf two races before their last one.
They both ran, and it go straight on the grass, and then went to the blue grass, and then
into the Kentucky Derby.
And I did that by design.
And they both ran well.
Fadill Prado and Dullahan.
And then Dullahan went on to be a synthetic specialist, and Fadill Prado was a turf specialist.
But both ran well in the Derby, coming turf dirt.
Huh.
Do you look at the inclination to say that I have a horse that can excel on turf that
I could think could run good in the Derby?
Well, I thought both of those horses were back there, and you weren't training for points,
so it was just about money when they were great at stations, and I thought they both could
do either or.
And I just thought that to accumulate money and keep them sound, that turf racing was
a better option for them leading up to it, and then we switched them to the blue grass
at Cheenland, both ran well, and then on to the Kentucky Derby.
But back then, I think even the blue grass was synthetic, so I think it went turf synthetic
dirt with a horse.
He wouldn't do it now because of the points, is it?
No, you can't now.
You can't do it anymore.
But that was just a path I had cut out for them, Jerry Crawford, and I talked about
it, and we thought it was, are he his path to accumulate great at money, and I thought
they were switch it as they go either way, and plus they say, turf is not a taxing on
them, I don't believe, so that was just a path we decided to take to try to get there,
and it worked well for both of them, they both ran well in the Derby.
Dale, putting the Kentucky Derby aside, why does the turf to dirt angle seem to be a
legitimate thing with horses?
That's a good question, I don't know, but it does seem to be, and I don't know if it's
because they get a race in them that says it isn't a taxing, like I just said, and then
they go on to the dirt, and they're still fresh, feeling good, and exposed.
But do you see horses that might excel on the turf, and then when they get on the dirt,
they don't like it at all?
There's a lot of, a lot of, real kids joy was one that we were talking about, he, he
to me was a strictly a turf horse, but just to make sure with the top three of them, like
that, we brought Barry Bailey up to Palm Meadows to work him on the dirt, and he got out
of them and said, it's not even the same horse, don't even think about it, so that made
it easy for me and Ramsey to, it's hard as it is with a good three-year old, and I take
a shot to not run him in the derby.
Yeah.
Yeah, interesting stuff, Sean and Pennsylvania, we appreciate that topic, keep him coming,
if you want to email the show, you can do it, we'll get those topics worked in for Dalin
Tim, as best we can going forward.
We'll say hello to Nick Zito next week here on IS, they answered, but time to move on
to our final topic, it comes from Jim in New Jersey, and he asked when no casino revenue
insight and the recent migration of trainers, such as Mike McCarthy, Peter Erton, Pete
Miller, and now Bob Baffert, either totally or partially, moving away from California,
a couple with small field sizes, guys, where do you see California racing in two or three
years?
Tim, let's start with you.
Well, I hope it's still thriving, but I have my doubts about that, you know, you hear
the tales of wall of, you know, about what's going to happen to these race tracks out there.
I mean, I know Santa need is still going to be standing, at least in 2028, because they're
going to have the Olympic equestrian out there, but what happens after that is, I mean,
I don't know what kind of deal they have, the track has with the land out there, but I
know that there must be some urban, urban people just looking at their chops, because that
is some prime real estate out there.
Having racing in California, I think it's a necessity, just like it is in Florida, to
lose those places like that would just be a major blow to the sport.
And I just hope that people realize how important it is to the economies out there.
Look what the breeders cup brought into San Diego economy last year and year before,
when it was at Delmarx, it can be a thriving business if you let it run.
Yeah, I don't know, that's the way above my pay grade.
There's no good answer for California, I mean, there's a lot of smart people looking at it.
And I was talking to some of the guys at Churchill, and so they'd love to get back into South
Florida, they said, but California is just too complicated, they can't figure it out.
It's not looking good for a long range future out there.
It's important to racing and hate to see that domino fault, because who knows what
domino fault behind it, but it's a very complicated issue.
Well, the one thing that's always been a staple of Southern California racing is trainer
Bob Baffer being based there, and he will continue to do so, but he announced that he is
going to have a stable now at Churchill Downs and at Oakland coming up this year.
What does that say about the situation out there when Bob Baffer is saying, hey, I
got to keep strings in other places now.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
I mean, I know how much he loves it out there in California.
He's always had a horse at Churchill, but not a told division.
All those guys just mentioned have had smaller stables, but you know, the beef stables
got to where they can't compete at Churchill, so you better bring your A team, and that's
what it looks like when they're starting to do.
It didn't help California racing at all.
I mean, when the first domino fell out, when the closed golden gate up north, so everything
has to migrate down south, except for the fairs that they have up there.
So, you know, again, it's not a good situation in California, and I feel for the guys that
have to send horses elsewhere, even though they probably rather stay in California.
Yeah.
We'll see where things end up in two to three years, but certainly not a rosy picture
at this point for horsemen in Southern California.
Jim and New Jersey, we appreciate that topic.
Okay, guys, time to move on to our West Point of the week, as we say hello to our friends
at West Point Thurberds who are back on board to sponsor this segment over the course of
the next several weeks.
And I want to remind our listeners that owning a racehorse with West Point Thurberds means
you are in the care of complete professionals who guide you throughout your ownership
journey.
You'll get instant access to the highest levels of racing, world class trainers, jockeys,
racetracks, and of course, your horse, West Point Thurberds, the gold standard.
And racing partnerships.
Timmy, kick us off.
What is your West Point of the week?
We've been on the radio show now for what, 30 minutes.
We didn't even mention the Dubai World Cup.
Forever young is taking us the next step, and I think that he's going to be on the world
stage today, and I'm sure he's going to show what he can do, even though I won't put
him in my top rankings until he starts coming over here.
I wish everybody safe passage over there with when things are going on in the world over
there.
But forever young will probably put on a show for us.
Yeah, he probably was going to be a nice night over there, hopefully everything stays
peaceful.
I'm just going to say, good luck to all the guys that are retiring.
And keep me posted on how much you like it if you miss it at all.
Well, I'm sure they're going to miss it a little bit.
Dale Romans, Tim Wilkin, guys, we're going to do it all over again next Saturday morning,
appreciate it.
Good luck this weekend.
All right, guys.
Thanks.
I'll do it.
All right.
There you have it.
That's I ask.
They answer.
And now I'll echo Tim sentiments to everybody who has made that trip to Dubai for the Dubai
World Cup program, safe travels back home.
And I know we've been talking about that a little bit throughout the show here this morning.
But safe travels to everyone as they make their way.
Not just back to the United States, but everywhere around the world.
I asked the answer is presented every week by our friends at the University of Louisville
Equine Industry Program and the College of Business.
I'm back with more, including the answer to this week's impossible trivia question presented
by Mojo Racing.
This is the Equine Forum on the horse racing radio network where racing comes to talk.
