I Blew Up My Marriage, but I Want to Fix It

My wife and I, we've been separated for about a year now, we've been trying to work

on things, but she has expressed that I'm not able to meet her emotionally.

How do you meet somebody else's emotional needs?

And man, I got some pretty bold opinions on that.

What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Glad you are here.

Talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriages,

whatever you got going on in your life, your kids, all of it. Love to have you on the show.

Real people going through real challenges, trying to figure out what I do now, what I do next.

I think we all need a dose of exhale, just some clear, honest conversations about what we can do next.

You want to be on the show? Go to johndeloney.com slash ask a sk. We take calls from all over the world.

We do change your name. We do change your location. We want you to be able to have a safe conversation

here. And see if we can get you on a new path. It's got to Vancouver, British Columbia,

and talk to Jordan. Hey, Jordan. What's up? Hey, John. How's it going? Good brother. What's up?

Oh, glad to take glad you could take my call. My question to you is my wife and I. We've been

separated for about a year now. And we've been trying to work on things. But she has expressed that

basically that I'm not able to meet her emotionally. And just would love to get your

advice on how I can kind of meet her there. Yeah, man, there's a lot here. I want to get to

this question because I think it's a fascinating question about how do you meet somebody else's

emotional needs? And man, I got some pretty, pretty bold opinions on that. But let's back up for

just a second. Give me some context here. How long have you been married? Why did you get separated

all that? Yeah, so we have been married for three years. And we got separated after like around two

years. What happened? Yeah, I would say overall, like I was very emotionally reactive and kind of

controlling. And I think and defensive. And I think she at the end of the day didn't feel safe

being around me. Right. Pause it for a second. The way you the way you framed it was.

I was emotionally reactive, which might be true. Were you punching holes in the sheet rock,

were you a yellow or do you call it stupid? When you say you're emotionally reactive, what does that

mean? Yeah, I'm definitely like some yelling. And also, I think like

there were situations where like if I was upset, I would do things that, you know, I think

I think just like made her feel unsafe. Give me some emotion. Emotion. Like, you know, an example

would be like when we had like a conflict and you know, she was like driving after and I was

upset. And let's say her like she had a flat tire one time. And she called me and said, you

know, like that she had a flat tire. And I kind of just was like upset and said, well, like, you

know, you can just like figure it out. And I was just like upset. And yeah, I couldn't help her.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't got much for you on that one brother.

So she finally said enough. She moves out. Or did you move out? No, she did. Yeah. Okay.

Let me back up for a second. I don't leave you hanging. I hear in your voice,

tell me if I'm wrong. And maybe you try to manipulate me. I hear that you are now a few years

removed from that and you're embarrassed and humiliated by it. Yes. Okay. That was. Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. Okay. Have you dug into a the root of why you were acting that way? Why

you allowed her to set you off like that? And B, what have you done to change your levels of

reactivity? To get some space between stimulus and response? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question.

So I think like after in the past year, so like I've dug into kind of

I think a lot of stuff just with my family and my upbringing. And I think a lot of it for me was

like, I think there's like a kind of fear and like insecurity there.

Tremendous insecurity. Yeah. That was so fragile that anything would set it off to the point

you'd leave your wife on the side of the road, Fender herself. What have you done? What action

steps have you taken to begin to fill that sense of fragility with concrete? I'm now somebody

that someone else can anchor into. Yeah. So like a lot of work, I would say with like reflecting

around like my parents and like my my upbringing, like writing out a timeline of events

in my life as well as like writing like a letter to my kind of younger self and like letters to

like my parents. And also just like I've read a lot of books around kind of just like emotional

I guess like awareness and like recognizing kind of like what I'm feeling like in my body.

And just like I think yeah like being more aware of kind of like what I'm feeling and then like

kind of strategies around like how to like manage those feelings in healthy ways.

Are you working with a counselor on this? I am. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Amazing. So when you first started talking, I thought you were just like wondering

around your neighborhood just thinking about stuff, but it sounds like you're actually practicing

in real life. Okay. Can I just say on behalf of men everywhere, I'm embarrassed for what happened

in the past and on behalf of men everywhere, I'm proud of the steps you're taking right now.

Like I want you to hear me say that I'm proud of you. Because you could have been like a lot of

folks and blamed her, made fun of her and then gone on to the next person. Well, I did blame her a

lot. Oh, I'm saying it in maturely, but you would have moved on to the next, the next unsuspecting

woman and you would just would have repeated this cycle. Right. But at some point, you chose to

look in the mirror and make us some changes. And I just want to say I'm proud of you for that. Okay.

I appreciate that. So have you all started talking again? Have you all started seeing each other

again? You'll move back in together? You'll sleep in together again? Like tell me what has happened

in the last year or two? Yeah. So we three months of not talking and then kind of slowly since then

we've been hanging out more and more and like wanting, we've been like talking and having conversations.

And yeah, I think we've had a lot of good conversations, but I also feel like there's like,

I mean, from from her, there's still a lot of hurt and mistrust and just feeling

is not not feeling safe around me. And for me, I feel like I'm often in kind of like a

anxious performance mode where I feel like I have to say the right things and do the right things.

Yes. And so I think because of that, I feel like I'm not able to be as present with her and

as like a tune to her and like kind of what she's like feeling in like a moment or like in a

conversation. Yes. And then that makes her feel unsafe and she backs up and then you start

performing more and you feel more and it just is a dance. Yeah. And that's that fly will

spend faster and faster. All right. I got the solution for you. Okay. And I rarely say at that

boldly, but I got the solution for you. Okay. All right. You have to have the courage

to and I'm going to use words. They're going to get me lit up on the internet and people

going to call me a simp and call me weak and whatever. And I think this is actually one of the

boldest forms of bravery and courage there is is to go to go to your wife who you wronged

and say, I was wrong. I need a road map back to trust.

And she gets to decide because you're dancing. You're trying to get her attention and you're on a

stage. I love that you said that you're performing. You don't know what play you're in.

So you're just yelling out all the lines from the old Shakespeare plays that you know.

Right. You're just like trying like is this it? Is this it? And it feels fake to you. It

feels fake to her, which to her body feels like, Oh, he's not who I don't know him. I still don't

know him. But when you say, I want a path back to trust. If she's interested in trusting you again,

which A, she may not be. So this will clear up the whole thing. Then she gets to decide here's

what it will take for me to trust him again. And let me let me take it outside of your situation.

Somebody cheats on somebody. What's the path back to trust? I want you to get rid of your

iPhone and I want you to get a flip phone. I need for two months, I want to see all of your

email codes and we're going to share one single checking account. And then you get to decide

whatever she lays out in front of you. Am I going to walk that path or not? And it's really that

simple. But here's what that does. It forces her. And I have a, an emotional like, I just, it makes

me feel icky. The phrase, you're not meeting my emotional needs because that is an often 99%

of time. It's an amorphous blob of goo. Yeah. That nobody nobody can grab. And it's her saying

to herself, I'll know if this is okay to keep going forward because I'll feel a certain way.

And feelings are so all over the place. Right? Yeah. And so I want her to be and say that also,

I need a path to your emotional needs and especially emotional wants. She needs and I say this a

lot. Like, I think we overused the word need a lot in relationships where like, I need this,

I need this. No, you don't. You want that. And that's great. But let's call it what it is.

But I'll give her this one. She needs a husband who will pick her up off the side of the road.

She doesn't need somebody that agrees with everything she says. She doesn't need somebody that

will never fight with her. She wants those things. Great. But she needs a husband who will show up.

So that's that's a favorite thing. But you asking, I need clarity on what are your emotional needs

and need a roadmap to them. Yeah. I feel like there has been times where I've asked her like pretty

specifically. And she has expressed to me like she wants me to be able to like understand in a moment

like what she's feeling and what she's like needing. That's mad. That's Hollywood. That's Hollywood.

It's insanity. And I'm not saying she's insane. I'm saying the air, the culture,

has surrounded us with is madness. That somehow mind reading is love.

Right. That somehow he'll just know because the famous actor exerwires he does on the show.

And the moment he stops knowing, that means our relationship has to quote unquote run its course,

which I think is just nonsense. It's trash. We're constantly changing. We're constantly learning

new things, rethinking positions. What used to feel good doesn't feel good anymore. That's the

amazing part about being in a relationship. But we have to communicate what those things are

to our partner period. And if we won't communicate it, I'm telling you right now what you have as a

football coach yelling at you, run the play. And you're like, I don't know what the play is.

And he's just screaming, run the play. If you knew how to play football, you'd know the play.

And you're like, okay, I'll hand it off. And he's like, what are you doing? Right.

It's not fair. It's just it's a it's you're in a position that you can't win. You might get

lucky once in a while, but you can't win. Yeah, that's what it feels like. Okay, so yeah.

Gosh, I feel like I'm saying this a lot on shows now. All just happened to be right in a row.

I'm going to give you a framework, a quick framework from Terrence Real. Terri Real, okay.

And this is the path forward. This is the most humble, honest, and in tegrous way forward. You ready?

Tell her that you want to have a serious conversation. Like an honest conversation.

Great. Cool. Sounds like y'all are there, right?

Yeah. All right. So say number one, here's the experience I'm having.

Number two, here's the story I'm making up about that experience.

Number three, here's how I feel. And number four, either here's what I'm going to do next,

or I'm asking you what you would like me to do next.

Okay. And so what you would say in this position is, hey, we've been talking for three months.

I am all in on you. And my experience, I'm struggling with the path forward.

I want you to trust me again. I want to help meet your emotional wants and your emotional needs.

I've worked hard to change. And my experience is I don't know the path back to trust.

The story I'm making up about that is, is you're expecting me to read your mind.

And I can't do that. And the other story I'm making up is you don't really want to get back together.

Yeah. How I feel about that is, my heart broke and I have a hole in my stomach because I know I

did you wrong and I'm trying so hard. Yeah. Right. And that is a, that, that pushes all of the truth

on the table. You own all of it. I'm owning how my experience, I'm owning the stories I'm making up

about you, about us, about me. And I'm owning how I feel about it. And then I've got hands open.

What do we do next? And when you say the story I'm choosing to make up is, you don't really want to

get back together with me. You don't want to break up like, but you're done with the marriage.

Um, let that hang. And then she gets to address the stories you made up.

Yeah. But, but compassion and rebuilding a marriage is you have, I mean, you can't rebuild the

building that's fallen over. Your marriage has fallen over. Your old marriage has gone. It's over.

If you're all going to rebuild the new marriage, you've got to have a blueprint for it.

Right. A contractor just can't sit there and look at the client and the client be like,

if you were a good contractor, you would know where I want the bathroom or want the building.

You can't, you can't, you can't function like that. Yeah. Right. And so,

I just, again, I want to reiterate, I'm embarrassed for what was for all of us, for you, for her,

but man, I'm proud of you for stepping back up. That is changed. That's masculinity. I'm proud of you.

And now, man, we're going to open our hands and say, here's a mat. I can't read your mind. And if

she says then, I only want to be with someone who's going to read my mind, I mean, you can tell

it was not Harry Potter. That would be an emotionally immature response. I don't say that, but

you can't read minds. And you all can have some hard choices to make. I'm honored that you

call, brother. Thanks for the call. Hope that helps. And I'll let us know how the conversations go.

We come back. A woman asks how her husband's neurofeedback therapy is going to affect their marriage.

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home. You're gonna love it. All right. Let's go to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Mama Shell. What's

up, Michelle? Hi, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm well. Thank you. All right. So what's up?

So I'm calling because I hear you in your introductions a lot of times say the wheels,

wheels coming off of relationships. But have you ever had a caller ask you what happens when the

wheels go back on? Oh, I like this. Let's go. So tell me all about it. Well, my husband's going through

neurofeedback treatment for PTSD, ADHD and other nervous system dysregulation. He had a lot of

abuse in his past, physical, emotional, all kinds. He's found an amazing clinic. It's awesome. He's

had nine treatments out of 40 and it's going super well so far. I'm super excited for him. How is

I'm fascinated by this because I hear some that it's just junk, bunk nonsense. I hear some people

have miraculous recoveries. What's he doing? So they said there wouldn't be a huge amount of change

or, you know, visible change for probably about 10 appointments that he's he's so much happier. He's

his moods are more regulated. We have two six-year-olds. He has a lot of patients, a lot more

patients than he had before. He's not ruminating as much about things. So you're seeing like real time

change. Yes. Yes. And it's super exciting. But I have we have built our marriage around

basically me working around his dysregulation. And I've learned how to anticipate,

regulate adjust and hold things together. So I guess my problem is I don't know how much of my

identity is me versus who I needed to be for a relationship to just function. Are you a fixer?

I am. And I'm a people pleaser. Yeah. The devil duo. Yeah. Yeah. So part of me is afraid that when

you get better, I won't know what my role is anymore. Well, if I'm I want to tell you I would

high five you. I mean, because here's what here's what happens very regularly. Okay. Somebody gets

well. Somebody loses 60 pounds. Yeah. Somebody goes to the doctor and gets their hormones regulated.

Men and women, right? Yeah. And the other partner loses their role. They lose their identity.

And so what do they do? They create consciously or unconsciously things to solve.

Yeah. Right. Are you catching yourself already? I am. Yeah. And I'm kind of worried about being left behind.

Yes. I kind of equated it to what you just mentioned about weight loss, like two best friends.

One loses 100 pounds and the other one's still heavy. You know, been there done that too.

And one goes on with a happy life. And then you get kind of get left behind. And I don't mean

not behind like I think you'll leave me, but I feel like, you know, we're we're going to be

building a life around instead of me managing things. It's more built around mutuality. And so

co-creation. Yeah. Super super hopeful, but also very scary for me. Yes. Okay. So if you look at this

moving forward as a new skill to learn, it will set you free. Okay. If you look at this as a

character defect or a flaw or a moral issue, it'll bury you. That makes sense. And what I mean

by that in real terms, if you find yourself saying, I should be or I've got to let or I need to

that will crush you. Right. If you say, oh, man, I've never shot a free throw before and I just

totally air balled out on, dude, I got to keep practicing. Right. You'll just get back on the line

and shoot more free throw. Yeah. And so the way this happens, dude, I love this one of my

favorite questions. I've gotten a long time. I love this is this is a perfect opportunity. I've

talked about this ad nauseam on the show for you all to get away. Like the marriage you had is over.

It doesn't exist anymore. Right. And even if you all knew something cheesy, like get a janget tower

and just knock it over on purpose and say, okay, we get to decide how this thing looks, re and rebuild it.

And for me and my wife, this isn't the question for everybody, but for our house, the question that

changed everything for us is, how do you want this house to feel when you come home every day?

Yeah. And he might say something like, I want to come home and not feel like you're fourth kid.

I want to come home and you're happy that I'm home. Yeah. I want to come home and you're not

resting at your phone, but you greet me with a hug or like whatever. Yeah. And then y'all

reverse and gene, okay, then here's what must be true. And then you say, here's what how I want

our house to feel when I get home. Yeah. And y'all, y'all build that world. And you both know,

we've never built this like this before. And so it's going to be clumsy and we're going to give

each other grace and if best we can, we'll laugh. And for me and my wife, we still to this day,

we have weekly check-ins. How are we? How can I love you today? We set a goal this year and how

do you see me holding up mind of the bargain? What's your reflection with me? Right. All right.

Right. Do you think that it's possible for his love to change for me because there's

because I'm not taking care of him anymore and he's so used to that?

Have you asked him? No. And he would tell me no. Okay, but there's one more question beneath that.

Yeah. When you're a caretaker, when you're a people pleaser, it is your job. And you probably

learned this as a little girl, I have to anticipate the emotional stability of the people around me

before they do so that we can all stay safe. 100%. And you have a radar that is going off all the

time, right? Constantly. Yeah. What you have to practice is setting, turn the radar off

and looking at him and saying this scary question, how can I love you today?

Okay. And when your whole identity has been, I will know how to love you. And by the way,

Hollywood has told you, if your marriage is worth a crap, you'll already know what he needs and

what he wants, which is nonsense. Right. It's an act of submission. I wish it was another word

because that's a gross word, but it's like it's you setting down your previous weapons of choice

and saying, how can I love you today? Which is scary. It's terrifying for me to set those weapons down.

Well, because for your whole life, that's kept you unsafe. If you asked that question seven

months ago, he would have said, Oh, what twinkies for breakfast? And if you really loved me,

we would have sex all day. And then we'd have a large pizza and we'd have beers and then he'd

forget even ask that stuff. And you're thinking, we have to feed our children, right? Right? Right.

And you have to go to a job. And now so that that that that defense mechanism kept you all safe.

Yeah. And now that same defense mechanism will bury him. Right.

And in burying him, I can tell you love him. It'll bury you too.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of love. It's it's been hard. But I wouldn't wouldn't have stuck around

if it if I didn't love him. Yeah. And I knew he always he's always been searching for something to

make him quote unquote better. And he got in touch with this clinic. And it's honestly been

a godsend for us. And I'm really excited for him. They worked for you all for a long time.

So excited. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just, you know, it's going to change the dynamic. And so it's

anytime something changes, even if it's ugly, it's comfortable, right? That's right.

So and we marry what we know. Yes. We marry what we are comfortable with, even if it's very

uncomfortable, right? It's right. Right. It's I got friends from up north and they're like, man,

I'm used to growing up. And it was minus 40 degrees in the winter. And I'm from Texas. And

if it gets 60, the whole city shuts down, the state shuts down, right? And it's like, that was

not comfortable, but it's what they know, right? Right. And so yeah. Similarly, here's the most

important path for you. A is setting up routines, whether it's once a week, once a morning,

especially at the beginning for how can I love you and how can you love me?

Okay. And trusting each other and then having a path for, and this is what takes a lot of practice,

him looking at you and saying, I didn't like that. Yeah. And you not shutting down,

you're not going all the way back and being a nine year old girl again. Right. But you saying,

cool, I got more data. Sorry. I feel bad. How can I love you? Okay. And you practicing saying to

yourself, his vote matters as much as mine. Yeah. Yeah. He's spent a lot of time in our marriage,

saying, nobody listens to me. Whatever I suggest, you guys just do it, do it a different way,

or because I'm just so used to like just doing and being, you know, and, and so I guess I

discredited his thought process as a lot because they were brought on by anger or fear or his

experiences. And I thought that they were not as good as mine, maybe. And so now I'm,

I'm finding myself like backtracking and having more patience for his thought processes and

initiative, which I've never done before. And it's hard. Two words can guide you, or three,

curiosity over judgment. Okay. One simple question. Tell me more about that.

Okay. And it's a humbling moment for you, because you've survived on having to be right,

having this sift and filter through tons of emotional data flying at you a million miles

an hour from a million different directions and make a call and go. And now you're going to have

to practice saying, I might be wrong on this. And that's okay, because we are deciding we're

weird going. Right. Tell me more about that. Or getting to a place now where my wife will say,

like, that doesn't feel right to me at all what you just said. And I'm not going to go, what?

I'll be like, okay, let me see if I can say it in a better way, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I've

never been able to say those things to him because he does get really defensive. And yeah. So

I've found him lately being more open to hearing me. And if I'm curious about something, he'll

he'll say, oh, I understand why you thought that, but that's not what I was meaning or, you know,

something like that. So that's probably good if I just am totally transparent with

with those things. Um, Jefferson Fisher gave me a line one time that was really transformative for me.

As I'm saying something, when I say it and I know it doesn't land or it's not landing or just

came out how I said, I didn't mean to say it that way or whatever, a quick line to follow up with is,

can I say that in a different way? Okay. Or if somebody you know loves you and cares about you,

says something that just stabs you in the guts, but you know they wouldn't do that on purpose.

If you can exhale and say, can you say that in a different way?

Okay. That's the most generous interpretation of what just happened. And you're already asking for

a, let's try again because we're practicing. Right. Right. So if he says, hey, we need to quit eating

chicken because they're putting poison in the chicken. We need to start eating eggs or whatever.

And you can say, tell me more about that. Well, I read this article like on whatever, whatever, whatever.

And they said that like, huh, I've not heard that. Right. Right. And it's like,

like, can we let that settle for a bit? Okay. Yeah. Or I'm going to continue to eat chicken,

but I will love the fact that you were drawing a line here. Cool on you.

I'll let you know ahead of time when I'm making chicken for us in the kids.

My kids aren't eating chicken. Okay. I'm going to cook chicken. You all let you know

and you'll be responsible for dinner with you and the kids. Okay. And that's great.

I didn't eat carbs for years in my life. We just make me a side dish of it. She just wouldn't put

my meat in the noodles or whatever. It was like, took her one extra second. And it was cool. Yeah.

And I felt so seen. Yeah. And I was being ridiculous. I was being stupid. But in my head at the

time, I was on it. I understand big, big, big food. I know what's happening. And I was, it just

was what it was. But it was this curious. Tell me more about that. And often, I don't know if

he's like me, but I'll talk myself and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk.

And then I'm like, okay, that's stupid. Yeah. I just land the plate.

Yeah. Yeah. He just, I think he just at this point is, you know, if I, if I question too much,

he gets, he gets really defensive and and that type of thing. But I see him coming out of that.

Yeah. I just, I see him being more interested in and why I'm questioning it or

trying to work with me instead of against me. Yeah. It is, and just neurofeedback thing is the

most bizarre thing I've ever encountered with anyone. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like I said, it's got,

it's got a, he ever been calls it anecdata. It's, I mean, you got people who are like,

get changed by life. And then you've got other people who are like, yeah, okay. And so like,

I'm to a point now where if it's working for you and your family, awesome. That's nice. Yeah.

Good for y'all. Good for y'all. But hey, it's too early to announce it here. I have a thing

coming out. It will be out in time for Christmas. It is a, it would be exactly what you need right

now. It's just not built yet. But they're building it as we speak for couples to get together and

just on a yearly basis. Say, all right, it's time to rebuild their marriage. And it's amazing.

But that's, let's get away for four hours. Let's swipe the deck. Let's say, all right,

we get to build a new marriage. What do we love about our old one? What do we want to be different

about this one? How do you want to be different? How do I want to be different? How do you want

to experience me different? What do you want this house to feel like? Yeah. And then let's put in some

concrete action steps on the calendar to get it going. It's awesome, man. I'm proud of you guys.

I'm proud of you guys. Thank you. Thank you. When we come back, a woman asks

how to convince her husband to let her be a stay at home mom to their new baby.

Buckle up.

This show is sponsored by Better Health. I've had some amazing mentors and friends

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Let's go to Minnesota and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth?

Hi, how's it going? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing well. What's going on?

Yeah, so I'm calling because basically my husband and I have a four-month-old daughter

or first and we're trying to decide if I should quit my job to be a stay-at-home mom.

So I would like to be a stay-at-home mom and my husband is not sold on the idea quite yet.

Wow. Okay, so what's the crux of the disagreement here? Is it financial? Is it

you're not going to do anything? What is it? It's I think it's pretty pretty strictly financial. So

it's not necessarily a matter of like can be afford our lifestyle. If I quit my job,

we both kind of will acknowledge that we probably could still kind of live the same way.

Off my husband's income, it's more so he's looking at it as giving up my income or he kind of

looks at my income as it would be nice to have in the bank as security and just building our

savings as well as a future down payment on our next home to kind of mortgage and opportunity

costing of him kind of thinking that money is hard to give up. Yeah. And so it's time.

Yes. And so our little giggles and first steps and all of that too, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely kind of in my my rebuttal in these conversations, you know,

if he's kind of bringing up the money side of things, that's kind of my thoughts too is I don't

want to give up time really. With my daughter, one kind of piece of context is we have discussed

that we would or he'd be more comfortable with that after our next kid just because then the

cost of daycare were double and it would be, you know, more financially, I guess feasible to him.

But then kind of my rebuttal to that is just you never know how long it takes to have a second kid

and you know, I don't know if I want to give up anytime with my daughter. So the challenge for you

all is y'all have y'all are fighting a proxy war and you'll need to get to the real issue.

Okay. And that's hard.

Couples will fight for years to avoid talking about the real real issue.

Okay. And it sounds like

well, there's several issues here that are just on top of my head and feel free to tell me I'm

wrong. Okay. I love, I love it when I'm wrong. There's part of you, I guess I'm guessing here

that there's part of you that while you're holding your baby and you hear your husband reduce

that interaction to an ROI, to a down payment on a future home that we may or may not even buy one day.

There is a part of you or maybe a lot of you that looks at him and says, I don't, I can't,

I can't understand you. Yeah, there's definitely some of that. It's it will, if you allow yourself

to truly feel it, there's almost a how dare you. Yeah. And the other side of it is he's looking at you

and saying, do you not see, and this is his lived experience inside of his chest, do you not understand

what's happening in this culture economically right now? If you have a job, hold on to it with all

of your mouth, all of your teeth and do not let it go because who knows what's coming next.

Right. Yep. I can see that. So he's looking at you saying, you're crazy. I had a babysitter,

you went to daycare, we're fine, but we might not be fine. Yeah. Yep. And I think that's speaking

of like going to daycare, another kind of piece of context is for whatever reason we don't really

know anyone else who has, who's a stay-at-home mom or a stay-at-home parent. I don't know if it's

like a location thing or what, but I think that's kind of why it's a little harder for him to

wrap his head around the idea. Just like if everyone else is doing kids are doing so well in daycare,

like what's the, like why would we need to not do that? Sure. So I think that plays into it as well.

Yeah, but that's like, you know, hey look, my buddy's wife lost 10 pounds. That's a terrible

way to live your life, right? Yeah. Does he struggle with anxiety a little bit?

He, I'll say he's like a very, he's like hyper productive, he's always kind of wanting to get

things done and he's like the opposite of lazy. I don't know if that really plays into anxiety,

but he does think about money a lot. And again, it's not really in a sense of like, oh, we can't

afford the mortgage or we can't afford this. Marso just like, oh, if we, you know, if we didn't have

had to fix the car, we would have X amount more money in the, in the bank and kind of just,

you know, it doesn't like the thought of losing money or having less. So it sounds like that's

where he's anchored into the source of safety is a number in a bank account. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've

been here. And I will tell you from personal experience and from sitting with a Julian people

that number, it's a, it's a, it's an ever-moving finish line.

Okay. Now he's considering a down payment for a house y'all haven't even started looking for yet.

You get what I'm saying? Yep. And then after you get that down payment, then it will be like, well,

we need the bunker ranch. Like, it will never stop. Yeah. And I've kind of tried to get, get specifics

like, okay, what exactly is it? We wouldn't be able to afford if I don't go back to work. And,

you know, we can never really come to specifics. Just, um, he's pretty blessed with his job. So, um,

like I just, I have a hard time seeing like how our lifestyle would be super different even if, um,

if I do quit my job. But, but you're, you're trying to solve a math problem and he's trying to solve

a hole in his chest problem. Okay. He's trying to feel safe extrinsically outside.

Yeah. And I, and that's something to you. I think about like, oh, I, you know, I know it's,

I would love to prevent him from being stressed, too, because, um, yeah, like if you lose a sleep over

things like this or just thinking of money, um, you know, obviously that's not a great, great

thing to do either. Um, so kind of trying to balance like what's best for our family and what is

going to like set us both up for success and, um, so I think we both couldn't live with.

You have a four month old. So here's, here's the best path forward. It's very similar. I've told

it a caller earlier on the show. How long have y'all been married total? Oh, you're in half.

Oh, so y'all are new, new, new into this thing. Yeah, we've been together like six years, but

yeah, married year and a half. Okay. So already, you're in two new relationships within two years.

So y'all dated for five years. Y'all got married. You were married for what nine months and you

got pregnant or six months and you got pregnant or yeah. And so then yet now you have a four month

old. The marriage you had is over. Doesn't exist. Okay. What most people do is they spend all their

energy trying to either get back what was or prepare for what might be someday. Okay.

And they never just set in the middle and say that we get to build this life right now.

And so I'll recommend with you and I recommend everybody. I do this in my house. This is how much

I believe in it is calling that out. The marriage we had is over. We get to decide who we are going

to be together when it comes to money, to time, more importantly to values. To what scares us,

to what excites us, we get to create that. We get to create our new dating life, our new romance

life, our new sex life, our new sleep routines. We get to do all of that and then we get to decide

how we are going to parent this kid. And when you do it that way, think of it like if you're building

a new house, the contractor sits down with a couple. There's a, I have a buddy who had a

contractor sit down. They actually sent the husband and the wife a quiz, like an online quiz.

And they filled it all out. And then they said like, boom, this is the house we think for you.

And they were dead on. It was awesome. But it's like, okay. What do you value? What do I value?

And if he is a plugged in, want to love my wife, well, husband, which he sounds like he does.

Yeah, for sure. Often, I'll just speak for my personal experience. The only way I knew how to

love my wife, well, was to make as much money as possible to work 24, 7, 365 so that if anything

came up unexpected, we could handle it. Yeah, that's super. That's really sounds like him too.

Well, and what I missed was I never asked her, hey, how can I love you?

Because she would have said, hey, we have six months of an emergency fund. We don't own anybody

any money. You could really love me by just watching TV with me, by going to this museum with me.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, definitely relatable for sure. And so your voice matters here.

And you letting him know, I love you. I'm so lucky I get to be married to you. How do you want

this house to feel when you walk in every day? There will come a moment when he's going to have to

put on his big boy pants and say, here is the number in the bank that I'm okay with.

My wife one day, I've told the story on the show, she met me in the garage and it was a big showdown

we had. But she said, the amount of how much I love you and the amount of money you make is full.

Okay, yeah, you cannot make any more money to make me feel any safer than I feel right now.

You cannot make any more money to make me feel any more loved or seen or known than I do right now.

And then she followed it up with, so any more money you make is for you and your ego.

Okay. And I was like, whoa, right? Yeah, and that was an important call out for me. And I was

like, oh, then how do I? And then she said the scary terrifying thing, hey, we have enough.

And then I realized I don't have a psychology for enough.

Okay. Yeah, that's I mean, that sounds super relatable to our kind of dynamic too.

She drew a pie chart and just showed like one of the pie pieces was money and she says that

she colored it in because that one's full. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I like that way of framing it.

And but what was what was still empty was quality time. What was still empty was presence.

You're at our house, but you're not here. You're somewhere else. You're in the markets.

You're writing a new book. You're thinking about a speech. You're going to give some day.

I want you here or you're sitting by me, but you're scrolling on the phone while we're watching

a, like you're watching your little screen with your medium-sized screen in your lap and we're

watching a big screen together. Like that's you're not with me, right? Right. Yeah, totally.

And so all the way back to this conversation is this isn't a money issue for you guys.

Some people are in a situation where somebody really wants to stay home economically,

we have to have two salaries, two incomes. This doesn't sound like y'all.

Yeah, no. Yeah, that's true. What he needs to hear is, unequivocally,

I value time with this child developmentally. I think it's going to be better for our kid.

I can't imagine sitting in an office making money to pay for somebody else to raise my kid.

And so here is what I'm proposing this looks like. And maybe it's all work part time.

Yeah. But you stating of value, it is a core value of mine that we are the chief

development officers of our child. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely something I think about a lot

just because you know, if you go out looking for any opinion online, you can find something

that sports your thoughts and something against it. So just always thinking about like,

is daycare good for kids or is it, you know, better to have a stay at home mom?

So things like that, people have not talked openly about that data because

there's a whole swath of people that have no other choice.

The research is clear on it. It's clear. The challenge with it is it can be so

it can be so hard to hear if you're forced into a situation where it's necessary.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so people just don't talk about it.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, even just, I mean, you know, without running any

real studies, you can just think about it. And um, that's where the daycare we're thinking about.

Yeah, it's a common sense. It's a common sense. It's just common sense. It's a common sense.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like, um, and then you know, I kind of started to question

myself like, okay, well, if it's such, you know, it seems like common sense to me. If you can

afford it and you want to do it, you should. But like, well, why is no one I know doing this?

So I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but that kind of gets in my head. People make

choices. They get to make choices. Yeah. I would rather this life, this house, this career,

this status, this identity, I'd rather all these things than this other thing.

Yeah. Or people simply have to have two incomes because, where is he? Or we have to have two

incomes because we want these cars in the driveway and we want this house on our driver's license.

And so, um, I don't want to trade a smaller house way outside of town for

like people, and people just make trades. And that's why it's such a big deal to me that people

take 100 full percent ownership of the choices they make. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of another

thing we've talked about is, um, just like choices, making choices is because, um, the money,

you know, if we do want to buy a house, we'd want to buy a house kind of out in the country and,

you know, an argument there would be raising our kids a certain type of way with certain experiences.

So, that's kind of something we talk about is even if we do save money doing one thing,

it's, you know, could be beneficial for the kids in the other way. So, yeah, definitely have all

of us choices. Underneath poverty, underneath, uh, rural or urban, all these different variables we

put up there. What's going to be best? What's going to be best? What's going to be best?

Two parents on the same page who are stable. Period.

Yeah. And if you live in the country and y'all are united and your, your kids have a stable

presence where they're known and loved, they're going to be great. Let me find. And they're going to

have problems because their kids are going to do dumb, stupid stuff. They're going to break their

arms like that's life, right? So it was going to break their heart. There's that. And if you

live in a big city and there's a stable place that we're anchored into that we call home,

underneath all these other factors. All right. And so we can get so caught up in what's the right

this and what if we go to this, this, this, and man, I'm more convinced that ever that a husband,

like, I got, like a true marriage, you and me right or die anchored in the same values. We don't

have to agree on everything. In fact, it's best if we don't agree on everything, but we don't

share the same beliefs. We got the same values. Right. Man, then you can kind of do what you

kind of live where you want. I've lived in the woods on some acreage with my kids. I now live in

the city with my kids. I, they're my kids. You know what I mean? They're crushing. They're doing

fine. And they have struggles and challenges like every other kid. Yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear

the piece about just, you know, United parents is kind of number one because I definitely feel like

whatever, whatever we end up doing, it'll, you know, we'll, we'll come to a healthy decision.

And yes, stay united in that decision. So it's awesome to hear. It's, it's, it's, it's amazing.

And I, what, what I don't want you to do, which is again, this is cautionary tale. I'm probably

10 years down the road ahead of you. Don't miss this time, fantasizing and planning about another

time in the future that who knows 10 years from now for y'all. That's two presidents. That's

three, three presidential elections from now. Really? Right. Really? Yeah. I just read today that

Elon announced they're, they're launching data centers in space. Right? Like, really? That's

wild. I'm not planning anything. I, I am going to make great choices today. I'm, I'm, I'm not trying

to be presumptuous here and I'm not using this word in any sort of clinical sense at all,

but I'm going to send you a copy of the book I wrote called Building a Non-Inxious Life.

I'm not in any way saying you or your husband have clinical anxiety and any shape or

more fashion. But some of the challenges I've experienced, I mean, it sounds like your husband's

running my playbook, man. And I know what that feels like. And so I wrote the book for him and for

people who love guys like him. And so I'm going to send it to you. Stay on the line here and we'll

get you hooked up and I'll mail to you. It would be awesome if y'all both read it because where

if I just get this thing in the bank, if I just get this house, if I just get this piece of land,

then then my body will go, ah, it's just not how it works. There's actually another path to take

if you're looking for peace and it's from the inside out and it's hard and it's counter-cultural.

And I wrote a book for it. So hang on the line here. I'm really grateful for the call.

Let's don't talk about the money part. Y'all are fine. Let's don't talk about the daycare stuff.

The kid number two, let's have a real conversation which is, hey, we have a whole new marriage. One

and a half years in, we got a brand new marriage. We get to decide what this looks like and the

foundation we build it on, the values we build it on. We got to put all that on the table.

We got to be open. We got to be honest. Let's be curious. Let's unite on those values and then we'll

go build something awesome. Hey, what's up? It's Deloney. So we're in the middle of Lent right now

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All right, we're back. I've got a money in marriage anonymous question, a question that somebody left

at the money and marriage of truth at me and my friend Rachel Cruz put on a few times a year.

Here's the question that was left. How can I be a better communicator with my wife when I am more

of a thinker? She is very direct and quick to reply. So I feel like I can't be as good at talking

with her. I feel like I'm kind of broken or maybe come off is not fully present. This is my house.

Just I talk a lot and real fast and fly and peep peep peep. And my wife is a way more emotionally

stable and more thoughtful and she hears a problem and ruminates on it and thinks on it and then

will come up with a more concrete answer. So a great gift she gave me or this is years ago is

when I start talking about a subject, she will ask, do you want me to listen or do you want me to

my opinion on it? And if you want my opinion on it, I'm going to need to think about it.

She just stopped the conversation. And what I realized is, A, I was kind of looking for a sparring

match a little bit. I was kind of looking to get it like a quick win. I wasn't looking to engage

or connect with my wife. I was looking to just kind of get a little and then move on. And so

it stopped me. And so if I want to be a better communicator, I need to seek to connect with

the person, understand, acknowledge them. Jefferson says, so being a better communicator is

telling the other person. Here's a path to me. I'm going to allow you to see and know me.

Whenever we start talking about big issues, politics, money, sex, all that,

I want to fully absorb it and it just takes me while the process it. I wish I was faster, but I'm not.

So that's cool. So if you want to talk about a big issue, tell me about it ahead of time,

kind of what we're thinking about. And then I'll come ready and prepare it and ready to rock and roll.

My wife, when we had big conversations, she bring notes. It's awesome. She's so prepared.

She'll bring notes, she'll bring talking points. I'll listen to a podcast or two about it.

She's ready to rock and roll. I love that. But it was her telling me, here's what I need if you

want to connect. If you want to fight, I don't want to fight. If you want to just like steamroll me

with your facts and your directness, I'd rather just opt out of that. And that was a great challenge

for me. So how do you communicate better with your wife? You're not broken. Just got a different

computer. And you may be looking to connect during conversations and your wife may be looking just to

wipe each other back and forth for a minute and then go on about the day. So give her a direct

roadmap on how she can best communicate with you on big things and on the little things. And

don't apologize for your processing speed. It may not be as fast, but it's probably deeper and

more thoughtful. We need way more of that.