Ian The Art Critic

Hello everyone, welcome to the big show, yep, we're back another week, another week has

passed another crazy week of technology, of course, and I am your interim host stepping

in for Jeff Gammett, who is out on a last minute job, like you got some work, which is

great, by the way, I wanted to mention, if you're looking for a really, really good like

developer relations person or like someone who can teach technical things in webinars,

prepare technical content, stuff like that, he's a really good writer as well, has years

of experience at the Mac server, the big show with Mac show, tons of other places, Jeff

is available, so grab him while you can, he's looking.

Listen to me, I have, well, one person is retired and one person is not, if you listen

to this life, why I mentioned that, and let's start with Tom, how are you doing?

Welcome back.

Thank you, I'm doing fine, I enjoy listening to the discussions about work and how much

I don't miss all that stuff.

You know, really influential reviews, we're talking about, I bet you don't miss those.

I don't miss them at all, I don't miss them at all, and I was in China for about 10,

11 days, 12 days, and I finally figured out something, this is not maybe a massive breakthrough.

I love Chinese food, except when they prepare meat, they serve the whole thing, like chicken,

you get the chicken meat, the chicken skin, the chicken bone, the chicken cartilage, the chicken

tendons, and people like you, chicken brain, but at least brain is kind of a muscle, it's

for me, it's the tendons and cartilage that I have a very hard time with, I don't know

how people eat that, but so I was the way I had a long discussion about it, and people

say, you know, we just kind of grew up eating us, like it.

Yeah, I think it's just something, I mean, on one hand, I think it's also a lot of respect

for the animal that you killed, you're really using everything, but it's also, if you

go up with that, I think it's just normal for you.

Yeah, tendons, I've had it, I'm like, I'm with you.

It's tough to chew, let's put it that way, and I'm with you, you know, using the whole

animal don't waste anything, but you know, if you put the animal parts back in the ground,

it decomposes it.

Exactly.

There's other ways how you can do that.

I do like all the flavors and variety, and the nice thing about the restaurants there,

they're all family styles, so you only eat what you like with business.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely like that as well.

Sounds like a really great trip.

It was fun.

Yeah.

Also a great trip is visiting Ian in the UK, so yeah, how are you doing?

I'm doing good, thank you very much, I'm back again for another week, what will I do

in the last week?

I think your kids are great, yeah, my biggest kids, my 30-year-old wife,

who are down for, to come and see us for the weekend.

We went to a pottery fair, never thought, never thought I'd find myself saying those words

in a sandwich, but she didn't enjoy it.

She did enjoy it.

Yes, I did.

She did.

There's a place near where it's called the headworth gallery, Barbara Headworth, a famous

culture.

So what are you, so they said, oh, I saw this thing on Instagram, it says 7, 7, 7,

7.

You fancy going, so yeah, go on, then let's go, I had no preconceptions.

I had a lovely morning walk around looking at all these beautiful things people have

made, but we bought some stuff and came home with it, and that's a nice lunch, what can

be better?

Yeah, exactly, I mean, I saw some Ponziar, but I didn't understand, because we're in the

gallery and there was this room with things involving metalwork and bits of, honestly,

I walk out with my, I didn't, I didn't in the room, but I walked and got lost, because

it was one of those, you know, I just could not make any sense of it.

Yeah, but I mean, maybe you're also not supposed to, it's just, it just is, I mean, that's

what art is, like it's just, it's, yeah, I don't know, I grew up in, as it, I started,

I count on my council house kid, going to our galleries wasn't the thing we did, you

know, the project, the projects from American listeners, I grew up in those, I found

me, not much money, going to our galleries wasn't the thing we did, I only ever started

going to our galleries with my wife, my current wife now, when we'd be married now 10,

10 years or so nearly, and so I'm still a stranger in a strange land when I go to these

places and walk on them, it's interesting, because I go with, I go with, I go with an open

mind gem, and sometimes it'll work, that's a bollocks, that's a bollocks, what are they

on about, but, and then I walked around things and got, that's bloody amazing, that one

thing I, a door when I saw it was, oh, what's his name, Grayson Perry, British, cross-dressing

artist, loads of fantastic, he made a thing called a memory jar, it's this beautiful thing

and it was basically, the story of his mother's thought of, so we'd be repitude into Alzheimer's

and there was a story on the outside, and it just called my emotions, he really did

when I saw it, and that's art, that speaks to me, you know, and it's fantastic and I, and

normally it's sort of thing that I wouldn't, and brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, but I mean, that's also the thing about art, right, it's like everybody has a different

approach and different perspective on it, and I mean, I personally, I prefer people

like you, who are just going with an open mind and just experience it, and yeah, some

things you might like, and some things you might not, and some things you might understand,

and some things you might not, but you've kept an open mind versus the people who go in,

and they think they're artsy-forty, and like, the big snobs, and they know everything about art,

and then they start critiquing the artists and whatever, and I'm like, I'm like, yeah,

you're missing the point, like it's supposed to be, also fun, right?

Like, and not, not everything might be up to your standard, but it's still art.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, so, yeah, that sounds like a really great time.

Yeah, I know it was a really great time, I had fun.

Like, I'd like to say, I surprised myself because it wasn't a thing that we would,

I would find fun, but genuinely, it's really good.

Yeah, yeah, sometimes you just try to try.

Yeah, absolutely, I'm with the latest by National Outpass now,

because the intent currently is, well, that famous company's waifo future,

that's currently being shown here, so I'm going to go, we're going to go up and say that,

think over the weekend actually, we're going to try and get something over and say that.

And Tom, you should really see that you get an original Jeff gamut.

Like, his art, like, he's showed me some stuff, it's really good.

I like his, I love when Jeff does inktober.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Yeah, just wanted to mention that because I'm a little bit jealous,

because it's hard to get an original Jeff gamut here, but one of these things,

all my L-manage.

Yeah, yeah, I've also had a good random week.

Not a lot happened, so it was really work.

Went to see the Project Hail Mary movie on the weekend.

That was fun, what you think.

I don't want to spoil it, so it did, it's like visually beautiful,

like really beautiful.

Story wise, they did a really good job, it all makes sense.

It's just someone who listens to the book, I was always like,

oh, I'm like, oh, I'm missing this part, I'm missing that part, whatever,

which I understand because it's like a, I don't know, 15, 20 hour book

that they condensed down to, what is it, two hours, two and a half hours or something.

So of course, they cannot show all the things that they did it in a very smart and very well way.

And there were some things that are really lofty,

like some, also some story points where I was like, okay, they did that,

that actually works and that actually makes sense.

And I see what they did there.

Like, is that visually, I would watch it, I maxed beautiful.

Like just something like that.

I'm simply at the same time, the book, the audio book,

there's such an impact on me, I don't think I won't see the film yet.

My highlight of last year's reading, and then it was the audio book I listened to.

Yeah.

The highlight of anything I listened to already last year was,

the project of Mary.

Absolutely, it's one of my favorite things.

I can't, at the moment, that still lingered until I, until that's probably softened in my memory.

I'll probably not go near it yet.

But the little clips and the bits and the snippets I've read about,

people are saying that there's some bits that would translate

in more difficulty, with more difficulty, and again, compressing them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There were some things.

There were some things.

There were a few shortcuts, which are good.

Yes, they said it was very...

We were doing it.

I was a little bit disappointed because some of them for my favorite parts of the book,

and I was like, ah, it's damaged, but I also saw why they did it,

and why it just had to happen that way.

So, at the end, the one little thing, the little nibble that I had,

is that without sporting anything is, what's her name?

The lady that runs the project on Earth.

Eva...

Oh, yeah.

...first of six, Strat.

Strat.

Strat.

Yeah.

Her, like, her badassness does not come through as clearly in the movie,

as it does in the book.

Oh, that...

That was a little bit...

It's not the thing, but you really got the thing that she was,

that would stop with her.

They tried to do it in a smart way, in a subtle way, here and there,

and try to get that across.

But I think in book, it was simply because they had more time,

we could tell more stories clearer than it is in the movie.

I'm still not sure about Ryan Gosling as casting choice,

but I mean, hey, okay.

Some people say he works a character.

Some people say it works really well for that character, and I'm like,

mmm, not sure.

But as I said, I had a great time.

It was a good movie.

It was visually really great.

I enjoyed every minute, and for people I've never read the book or listened to the book,

they wouldn't even know what was dropped and would have an amazing time.

That's what I've heard from people.

Like, people that didn't know the book, they're like, oh, this was amazing.

So I think it's just, as I said, the knowledge of the book, some,

I usually can separate that, but there were couples, because it's probably one of my

top five books, and I've listened to it probably twice a year since it came out.

And I'm like, I can tell you the story by now, like, almost worked for it.

So there were some, or almost, yeah, but there were some things I was like,

I wish I really wanted to see that.

Actually, it was more that.

I wanted to see it.

That was more it.

It was like, oh, it's so bad that I missed it.

No, I really just wanted to see that.

Because so far, it's been in my head and in the audiobook.

So, yeah, it's leaving my head to my, the storylines and some of the events

have left in my head.

And I don't think I want to say them on the screen.

Yeah, I prefer my image or whatever happened in that film.

That's totally bad at the moment.

So I kind of, I think when it will be a year or two,

it's time I'll probably end up seeing it and seeing it.

Totally fine.

I think of it, but I know I'll buy it when it comes out.

So that should tell you something because I don't buy movies that I watch once

and I'm like, I was fun, but I don't want it.

Like, this is a movie I want to own.

So that should tell you something.

We should talk about some new stories.

Yeah.

News stories.

I think Tom's goes, Tom, first story,

something about arm kicking on Intel.

So everything I'm taking today is UK based in the spirit of EPN.

I had like three or four things UK based, how appropriate.

So the news is that this week, arm announced that they are launching

a CPU chip that you can buy for that enterprise.

This can buy you and I probably won't buy it.

And as you know, arm, arm's business for the last almost,

yeah, 40 years, at least 40 years, has been to license the design specs,

essentially, the design of CPUs to other companies.

Yeah.

Like Apple, immediate tech, and Samsung companies like that.

You all know that, right?

Everybody has arm-based designs.

What they buy is a license from arm to basically take the architecture design,

architecture and design and implement.

So now, arm is shipping their own chips, which is interesting.

One weird, because now they're competing with their customers.

And anyway, so that's weird.

And, but they're basically going to be competing to CPU.

It's not a GPU or a sensor processor, and they hit the CPU.

I think they said it has 136 cores.

Yeah, it's more like a server CPU, probably.

Right.

Yeah, server CPU.

Yeah, looking at using ODS, I'm talking to it.

That sounds so great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's all headed for data centers.

Yeah, which I mean, to be fair, is right now basically everything.

Consumer market almost doesn't matter anymore.

Not so much.

It uses the Neo-vote core, which is, I think, the latest one.

The latest version one anyway.

You know, they update the architecture every few years.

Neo-versus, the latest one, I think.

And yeah, it does mention in sort of a weird way

that the chip was helped design by Meta,

and also Cerebra's Cloud Player Open AI, a bunch of them.

I don't know what that means except,

probably they ran the specs by them.

Yeah, I figured out what they should optimize and not optimize.

And then they also announced partners,

which sound like the people that will actually buy the chips for server racks.

And they mentioned Lenovo and Supermicro.

And the one thing about ARM is, you know,

being an IP provider, they have tentacles all over the industry.

So they have a lot of partnerships.

Yes.

So they clearly took advantage of this for this announcement.

And so what would you have now is you have,

you know, in a data center, as you know,

you have CPUs, GPUs, and then all kinds of

especially processors and network chips and all that kind of stuff.

But from a processor point of view,

for the CPU, it's really only Intel and AMD.

And then you have the hyperscalers making their own ARM base.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Some CPUs, but also some specialty processors.

Yeah.

So they're, it's really AMD and Intel.

So I guess the primary competitors are AMD and Intel.

But kind of Nvidia too, because Nvidia does

products that are really a mix of CPUs and GPUs together.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, especially these days for the all the AI stuff.

Yeah, the Vera Rubin is really a combo GPU CPU.

So ARM is now essentially going to compute one of their biggest customers in video.

And now the question becomes, if your,

since ARM is, if you're Nvidia or Apple or somebody,

ARM is now your kind of your competitor,

that might make you a little bit nervous.

And I'll probably.

So the question is, what is their alternative to ARM?

And so there are, there are some people,

you know, there's this thing called risk 5 that's going on for a few years.

It's an open source core.

Yeah.

And I think it's, I think it's

instruction compatible with various versions of ARM process.

It is.

So there is some discussion that companies will maybe ramp up.

They're backup plans, not their primary plan,

but they're backup plans to keep in their back pocket.

They're backup plans with risk development,

just in case things go sideways with ARM.

I'm kind of in negotiation.

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering what the, what the play here is.

I mean, on the one hand, you pointed out where the,

where the gap in the market is, right?

I mean, in the, in the server space these days,

which is heavily skewed towards AI,

but also in general, a lot of services,

all the cloud products and whatever,

all the data centers.

Right.

It's like, that's probably 80, 90% of the business these days.

And there is really,

it depends a little bit on what you're looking,

what you're looking for, what you're looking at.

But I would say you're right.

Like, it's mostly Intel or AMD.

Actually, more, these days, even a little bit more AMD than Intel,

because they're simply more efficient.

These days, better, better,

power to performance ratios.

So, especially on the server side,

like that, that flipped a little bit.

Yeah.

That's why you see so many AMD based,

like hyperskator offerings,

because it's just cheaper.

So, yeah, there's a gap in it.

There is a place in the market where you could go in and say,

let's compete with those two,

because there is probably a path for ARM.

There is, it's not that nobody is offering ARM for servers, right?

There's, I think, even,

I think it's a DSMC, even themselves or someone,

like, they're offering tips for, like, ARM server tips.

Yeah, people like Qualcomm, immediate tech.

Qualcomm, that was the one I was thinking about.

Thank you, yes.

They're building ARM-based CPU servers.

Yeah, but not Microsoft.

Yeah, but not for that,

not like that, basically.

I mean, Microsoft is building for themselves mostly.

It's not really selling it too much.

I mean, if you're building,

if it's super micro, Lenovo,

quantum, and particularly Azeroth,

that's aiming at the home-obvious market as well as

the small MSP's that build on whiteboards.

Yeah, and that could be an interesting part.

There's a chance that that's,

because that will be, I'm sure that's,

with the numbers that are talking about,

five times increasing revenue.

There's the hint behind the motivation for ARM.

I don't think ARM is doing that well financially.

Yes.

Believe it or not,

they've gone through some struggles.

It started with the soft bank acquisition

and then trying to go public and in their video make a bid,

made a bid that got rejected.

I don't think they're doing that well financially.

Exactly. And I think that is there.

I was just about to mention that.

Like, I think they're not doing it because they're like,

oh, we can compete with those.

And we're so much better and blah, blah, blah.

No, it's simply, it's simply because they don't see

any other option than to do that.

Because, I mean, they're basically,

yeah, that and they're also basically beholden

to other companies delivering, right?

I mean, the same thing that Apple, for example,

had with Intel, like back in the day before they had their own chips,

that Microsoft had for the longest time

until they also started doing their own chips

to some extent,

where you're beholden to someone else delivering products.

ARM only makes money when someone else ships

a little shit ton of ARM chips, right?

Because that's usually how the license works.

Like, you get for every chip that you sell,

that you get like a certain amount, right?

So, like, your revenue is dependent on someone else

delivering a product.

And I think, well, given your struggles,

that is a bad position to be in.

Yeah, I think part of the issue is over time,

you know, with big companies like Nvidia and Apple,

there are experts at negotiating down the oil.

So the royalties that Apple and Nvidia are paying today

are not the same that they're paying five years.

And also, I mean, negotiating because they can threaten to do their own thing, right?

Like, I think both companies and maybe also Microsoft, a couple others,

would be capable of coming up with their own designs,

if they had to.

It's usually you don't want to, you don't have to,

but they could.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's the attractiveness of the risk five,

is it's, I wouldn't say it's any kind of a special

groundbreaking designer.

And I think it's a solid CPU design,

but it's arm, arm instruction check set compatible.

It's open source.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think that the fact that it exists

is exactly the thing that those companies can use and say,

well, if you don't give us good terms,

we're going to use risk five and like do our own.

Right.

So I'm sure, I'm sure all those big companies have efforts

where they have teams that are looking at risk five or something.

100%.

And I'm sure they bring that up every time they do shape as long.

And like, yeah, you have to be, you have to be cheaper or better

than risk five because otherwise, why would we even pay you anything?

Right.

Right?

That's usually how this goes.

Yeah, and so that is a way to, I mean, one, you can prove your own designs

without having to rely on others to do that.

And you can also be in a, like, let's say, more comfortable position

because you're like, even if they threaten to leave, you're like,

well, so what?

Like, I can chip my own chips.

I'll just shift over there and do that.

Right.

Well, and then for the positive, positive side for arm,

but, you know, it's kind of a similar dynamic in the opposite direction.

The companies that need to build servers like Facebook, Google,

Microsoft, Amazon, you love to have competition for AMD and Intel.

Oh, I understand.

Yeah, I think it's also good for the market.

I think, I mean, whether it's successful or not, we'll see.

But it is, it is, it is good to have that.

Speaking of Facebook, Ian's story is about Facebook.

Well, Facebook and oh boy, oh boy, it's one of those stories again.

Yeah.

Game changing moment for social media, as it says in the headlines,

if you've been following on with a story, it's been,

it's been rumbling on for some time now.

Essentially, Facebook and indeed, Instagram have lost a court case that says,

basically, those are addictive.

They are providing medium where they are causing issue.

It came through there to a body, it's more of a depression,

suicidal thoughts, it was one kind of get the claimant.

So now, I mean, it's a fantastic result for them.

And both companies intend to impeal.

So they're single.

Yeah, of course.

But really, I mean, I know we've known this.

Of course, we've, so we've known this and we're all aware of dooms growing,

all of the other things that go along with it.

But so now, a court has actually said, no, no, that seems reasonable.

Yeah.

So, so here's the interesting thing about this.

The case is not technically about, it's not technically about like,

doomscrolling or whatever.

Because in the US, those tech companies, they're, they're basically protected from like,

basically, which one was that now?

It's not section 230, it's the other one.

But like, basically, the platform is not responsible for how the user uses it.

And what, what people post on it, that one is six inches to 30 and the other one,

I've got such a dessert, exactly.

Is it 230?

Okay, I thought there wasn't.

Yeah, it's in the, it's in the answer.

Okay, and, and basically, so, so based on that,

there would be no case here, because they would just say, well, I mean, she,

she is responsible.

I think it was, it was her, yeah, it's responsible for, no, it's, it's so here.

It's responsible for, for her own actions.

But the case they made was really smart, because they basically said, well,

look, they delivered a faulty product.

It's, it's not about what was posted and how it was used, but the product itself is faulty.

The product itself is basically broken in a way that it, that it allows that to happen.

And, like, it, it, they had like internal, internal documents for meta where,

where Zuckerberg, I think, basically admitted, it's like, yeah, we're basically targeting

kids and, and whatever, and we need to make sure that they're addicted to us,

because like, we, we have to get them early, right?

So stuff like that.

So, so basically, their whole case was, well, they both, they built a product that was faulty

from the get go.

It's not about the content.

It's about really the product that's broken.

And the touch or the jury agreed.

Yeah, we'll see where this ends up.

I'm almost certain this will get struck down because it's just how the system is set up in

in the US, but we'll see. I like, I love this case.

See, I mean, the damages are peanuts, right?

Six million, six million from, from, from them, like, yeah,

those are the back of Zuckerberg's pocket every day.

It doesn't ever, every, every five seconds, yes.

Yeah, he's known for the best time.

But it's, it's a, but it's a once you lose all the techniques, all the, all of the,

the things that keep us engaged and hooked and scrolling and looking at the things

they're automatically playing and the algorithms, once they're stripped away, what we left with.

Yeah, it's not going to be, I don't, and what used to be years ago, but is that?

I mean, I, I stemmed away from Facebook because I felt I was being, because they were

demographically feeding you shall it.

As a 50 year old man, the things that they would, and again, the same with Instagram,

otherwise seem to have tamed that one, but particularly Facebook was feeding me

certain amount of right when rhetoric shined.

I really didn't need anymore.

So I've just let, I've said, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine without it.

Yeah.

And I, I said, I said back and that was a brilliant move.

And it's interesting to look at it and you see that even,

not, I mean, you said we were trying to protect the kids here, even something,

a grown-up like me with all of my, all of my experience of worldly wisdom,

consent and go, oh, look, look, look, can I keep going?

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm, I, I, I engage as my eyes and I, therefore, I'm feeding me appetizers and

yeah, but the different, the difference is your an adult, your mind is like, you're like,

your personality, your mind, wherever is to some extent, at least settled,

at least you can handle what you're seeing a little bit better.

You get less influence, you still get influence, but less influence, but for kids,

I mean, they're growing up, they're learning, they're, everything is still changing like

their bodies and their minds and everything.

And at that point, if, if, if something comes in and really, on a, on a really bad level,

interferes with it and that doesn't matter whether it's social media or it's alcohol or tobacco or

drugs or you name it, doesn't matter. That is a big problem.

Yeah, I think you're, the point you're making is similar to the argument for banning alcohol

and tobacco kids under a certain age. They're not, they haven't lived long enough yet to

make a fully informed decision about those things, but I don't, you know, we've always talked about,

you know, we've talked about 230 protecting the social media or all platforms,

because hey, we just reprint the content that our users post, but we're not editors, we don't

do anything. But when you start having recommendations, recommendation algorithms,

isn't it kind of the same as a newspaper or a television news show?

That's exactly, choosing what people see.

Yeah, that is exactly the problem. I personally, I know there is, there's a lot that's wrong

with section 230, but personally, I mean, also having shipped like services and platforms,

I mean, we have, we still have comments on our website or whatever. I still think it's the right

approach, but that does not mean that you are not responsible for what you're doing with your

platform. Like it, it protects you to some extent, because it should, like, because otherwise,

otherwise, you really should shut down, you couldn't do anything. I get that and it makes sense,

but it does not protect you from, like, really intentionally designing things in a way to be

harmful. And I think that is the whole case here. And social media is losing that battle so far.

I mean, a lot of countries in the world have already either are discussing or have already

implemented social media bands for Australia, Europe is discussing it right now.

Yeah, we are. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a new, it's new here again. It's why it's a new cycle.

Yeah, and there's a reason for that. Yeah, there's a reason for that, right? And that's, so, so I,

I think I, I mean, the thing is with this, I mean, if this, if this holds up, if this court case,

like, I mean, yes, it will get appealed and whatever and we'll see how far that goes.

But if that holds up, the problem is not the individual case, right? The problem is everybody can

not, everybody they can show like really harm and that was the case, I mean, that was the case here.

It was not a, oh, I think I was harmed case. It was a, like, really psychological problems that,

that you could trace back with a reasonable degree to two social media. That was the whole thing,

right? And anybody who can make such a case would win it. And, and, and that is the risk for,

and tick-tock and Snapchat. That's not, of course, because they, they're, they were, they were,

yeah, they, they, I think they were, they were smarter because they were like, yeah, we cannot,

we cannot let that go through. But it shows you how certain Google and Meta were that they could

basically, like, just kind of get a pass here. Yes. So, you know, I was, I was thinking about this on,

on the one hand, the algorithm is really the problem. Yes. Well, the algorithm, but also some,

some of the tools, right? The infinite scrolling, for example, is, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

there's, there's a whole system behind it. Right. So, so the way that the application is

architected, yes, all those elements that try to maintain engagement. Yeah. So, what if, and,

and so I, I know that's a problem for me, just like Ian was saying, you know, it serves me

of crap. I don't want. Maybe for most people, it keeps them engaged. It doesn't keep me engaged.

So, what if you had a system where, by default, it was like mastered on, it's just a timeline.

Yeah. But they provided tools that allowed you to sort of tweak your algorithm for what you

wanted to see. So, you would click a button and a control panel would come up and it had five knobs

on it. Now, you set those knobs the way you want it. If you had a system like that,

I don't think you'll have a case like this. No, I think I think I don't think it would matter

because the whole, I mean, you can control what you see, but the whole system is still rigged

in a way that it basically surfaces you content all the time to keep you, keep you in it. I mean,

that was the whole, that was, that was the whole case of meta. Yeah, but you're the one, the

problem to me is the company is controlling that algorithm and the knobs. But the company is

not controlling the infinite scrolling and the parts that make it addictive. I mean, in the end,

I'm saying here, you're the product. So, what they want is the way to keep you the product

in your rivals, of course, connected to meta, meta, meta admitted as much in court. I mean,

Zuckerberg basically said, hey, like our business interest is to keep you on the platform as far

as long as possible. Which is, by the way, is no different than television or radio or anything

else. No, I had to discuss, sorry, I have to disagree here. I had a discussion about that yesterday

on, on, on in space about exactly this. And, and with this, with Ray, like we talked about,

like, back in the day, like, I mean, even older, I think, older than you even, Tom, he said,

like, back in the day, I mean, he would, he would rush home because on Saturday, I think,

for Saturday, he could watch Sesame Street or whatever. And then he had to wait a week. And there

was a hook at the end where it's like, okay, like, oh, something news going to happen next. And

now I have to wait a week. This is not the same thing because the difference is it is not

incentivizing you to, it is, it is keeping your interest to, to come back, but it's not incentivizing

you to basically stay in it the entire time and watch the next thing or the next thing or so.

But I totally disagree, Patrice. I think the way television was designed in America anyway,

was they wanted kids as soon as they got home to turn on the TV and keep it on until dinner time.

It wasn't just one show. It wasn't Sesame Street and wait for next week. It was Sesame Street

then Mr. Rogers then. Okay. Then the ready bunch. They wanted you to watch a TV as much as

possible because it was all about Nielsen Rady and the demographic the advertiser is looking for.

Good point. And it clearly is not, it was not, it was nowhere near as effective as, you know,

social media type of engagement sticking us, not even close. Yeah. But that was their intention.

Yeah. Yeah. But here we were by pride. Here the BBC was Mum's Baby Citter,

effectively keeping his busy clothes still dinner. Right. Right. Now the exacting.

And you can't inform all the interesting things the BBC provides because it was not,

because at least in the, in the case of the BBC, there's no commercial messages.

Whereas on the other, if you're watching the other channel, you were getting adverts for

personal and personal and the latest toys and everything else, you know.

That was, that was always a big uproar even when I was a little kid in the 60s.

Was parents complain about how harmful the commercials were on kid shows because they motivated

kids to bug their parents to buy the lousy sugary cereals at the grocery store.

You know, by lucky charms, you know, and the kids would

test their parents to buy lucky charms, which is probably the worst thing you could feed your kids.

But that's what those cartoons, those cartoons were full of ads of all that crap that kids like.

I was going to buy stuff were the, so were there segments in the show? I mean, I've seen some

stuff for adults, but were there sections in the kid shows as well, where they would.

And now this week's sponsor, I mean, TV, those kind of cereals don't

about because it was having so one there in the end. Yeah. So of course.

Some of the shows had sponsors if they were sort of the live kind of show,

but mostly it was just the commercials, you know, in a 30 minute cartoon.

Which way can they have? Yeah, in 30 minute cartoon, you had six or seven minutes of commercialism.

What do you, you moving around? Yeah, I don't know what was going on there.

Like, how are you? How was the way? How are the interesting things?

How was going to be on you? Yeah, exactly.

Now, I forgot whatever to say. Oh, I wanted to move on to the next thing. Sorry.

Um, yeah, we should definitely, we should definitely talk about one more article that I

threw in real quick. Um, oh, I didn't post. So Amazon is, is thinking about doing,

no, doing another phone. And I brought this. I mean, don't, don't care about the details.

I mean, it's an Amazon phone. Like, what is it going to be? Um, after, after failing on the,

with the fire phone, they're trying again. But like, my question is, is this too late?

Right? Is, I mean, who, I mean, who will switch? Who would buy it? Who would switch at this point?

Is there a market that they can still find a dress or is that basically gone? I mean, just,

if they're just bringing out another Android phone or another, another phone like the ones we have

today, is there a market? No, no, because we've asked you any other competitors that appears

like some of the newer bigger players like nothing, for example, or Fairfell. They've got a USP

somewhere on the line. Amazon's USPs access to their marketplace. And also,

their wall garden of an operating system, which is worse than, which is worse than iOS,

which you get kind of like Android light on most of those Android tablets is Android light.

You get seven abilities. It will be inexpensive and probably a dude granny, but as, uh,

there may be not even them, but as a, as a tool, it won't, the kids aren't going to buy it,

the kids aren't going to want it. I don't know where the market is for it. I mean, I'm,

the market for the cheap stuff at the bottom of the run to the market, that great to buy for

your kids to have with one of those holders that can show videos and things, because they can smash

you about what it's probably inexpensive. Yeah, but you see, maybe, maybe then a start of phone,

where you can't have too much on it. Maybe they, maybe they're very fit. Yeah, but there's,

there's about a million, but there's about a million starter phones already. Like basically,

every, every manufacturer on a market is, is, is making one way or another, I mean, including Apple.

Yeah, we don't, we don't, everybody else doesn't have that. We don't think about it, but you can buy,

go online somewhere, you can buy, buy any kind of phone you want with any kind of features for

any kind of different price range, you know, from $100 to $2,000. From, from, from probably five to,

to five thousand. Yeah, that market, that market doesn't, doesn't need another phone. Yeah,

I think like you say, no, no, they don't think they're making a phone, they're making an Amazon,

and, you know, that's the reason why they're doing it. So you can, yeah, but that was, which means

thing, the fire was that way too. Yeah, which, which means, I mean, it will be like, hey, you,

you buy a USB-C cable and you get a free Amazon phone with that or something to me,

right? Because, because like, yeah, that's the only way to do it. No, I mean, it doesn't mean that

there isn't, there isn't a path into the market. I mean, it has happened in the past. Like,

that's how the iPhone, that's how BlackBerry came in, there's how like a lot of other phones came in,

like, at some point, like it is possible. It's just, you have to have a unique value proposition.

What's the unique value? Something that is, and that is so much better than what everybody else

is doing, that everybody wants to switch to you. That is the point. Right. And there is nothing

that, and I don't think Amazon can do it. That's the problem. The people have spoken with Amazon.

How many devices that they tried to sell that are portals to Amazon, that people have just

totally shit on. Yeah, including the Kindle, the Dot, the Kindle, the TV, previous phone. People

don't want that. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, and I mean, Amazon is making a shit ton of money already,

and I'm like, I don't see, I don't see, I mean, we'll see what they do and what comes out of it.

I don't see why. Do you want to do that? I just don't know how internally at Amazon,

they get to the point where they're like, yep, we're going to do a phone.

Yeah, it's probably someone who thinks who who who who likes designing hardware and just want

to do that. It convinced someone that this is a good idea. I don't know. So here, here's a question.

Which piece of Amazon hardware would you call successful? Hardware from Amazon.

I said, cheap Amazon branded you cable. I don't know. Kindle was pretty popular.

Kindle. Kindle was successful when they didn't check it out. Yeah.

Until they should find it. Exactly. And the word good. Yes.

Maybe they don't got sick of got sick of because they didn't work that well.

Electro's not that good. The show was the same thing. Yeah. I don't see any like

hardware wise. I don't think I don't think they ever figured it out. Even the Kindle.

I mean, it works. It works okay, but it's also there's not a lot of competition in that market.

The competition is really the tablets at the smartphones and not other e-readers.

Right. The only decent competitor for e-enk is that because I love e-enk.

That's why I have a Kindle. Yeah. Exactly. That's the difference.

There's more books from the library to my Kindle. Yeah.

Is that what is it? The cobra? Cobal. Cobal. Cobal. Cobal. It kind of works.

It's a little bit funky. Yeah. But again here, I don't think the hardware was a success

factor. I think the integration with their Kindle bookstore and with the libraries and

whenever I was there. Success factor. The hardware is. Yes, exactly. When everybody was happy

buying books from Amazon, it was great. Yeah. You know what's also great?

All technologies. It's a really good company. It's a UK company. No

instantification. It's just a great company. They sponsor our server. They are a

environmental monitoring company. I would call it construction sites, events and so on.

Like, especially in the train industry, but also in the industries they've done.

So if you have, I don't know, you're building a tunnel through the Alps, for example.

Like just to mention something that's happening here. Or like just internally, you have some

train tracks that are being built somewhere or renewed. Like, the industry and I are doing that

right now. They're preparing to shut down half of the city because they're basically going to

take out one of the main arteries and then replace it completely. So they should hire

all technologies because it's a really good company. They have like their century system,

multiple awards. They've won in the UK. For that, worked on HS2, also worked on like the

tube in London. For example, I know that some also smaller, smaller train companies and so on.

And they have, it's really cool. You get the time lapse and connected to that. You get

environmental sensors like dust, vibration, temperature. There was one more I'm blanking on.

Probably a little light. Something like that. Yeah, basically all connected, all live.

You can watch your construction site. You can analyze later and say, look, like when we did this and

this, like this was the noise level, we should optimize this step. You can also look at your

process and be like, okay, we can optimize it to be faster if we do it this way and whatever.

Like it's just a really, really good tool. Aside from the fact that you're actually required to

have something like that, I've seen it used at concerts, for example, to track like the noise level.

I think that was the other one that didn't mention noise. Yeah, the noise level is also really good.

Like you can do that. I mean, you have like an outdoor concert or outdoor festival sort.

There's many, many use cases. I said, you can't base, but very, very much interested in expanding

into the wider world, no matter where, fly you in and enders in and they will, they will rock your,

your, your, your boat, your show. So, our technology, awtechnologies.co.uk is their website,

reach out to them. And yeah, we have a recall website on the server that is sponsored by our

technologies, live.prodischtechnetwork.com. Wow, that's hard. It's the website.

The live stream, this show, every Thursday, 7pm UK time. We're switching time this weekend,

I think, today that's saving. So all the show times are for you as a please or for another American

people are going back, well, for most of them are going back to where they were before, except for

the few paces that are smart enough or have been smart enough to stop that madness.

But so, figure out whenever that time is in your time zone. By the way, also Friday's 4pm UK time

is the make show if you want to learn about what Apple is doing right now and what we think about that.

There's a live transcript. If you want to see what we talked about instead, there's for example,

all the like all the articles we talk about. There's also the Grayson Perry at the National

Portrait Gallery link. The memory jar. Exactly, that Ian mentioned is also in there.

Head over to britishtechnetwork.com forward slash chat, pick today's date in the calendar,

which is March 26, 2026, so many sixes. March 26, 2026. And you can see everything that we

talked about in the chat. For example, the cool things. So what do we have as cool things? Who's first?

Who's first? Wow, usually you're on it. Tom has fun. Usually you're pacing it before we even

start. I was like, I was like, yeah, so Tom, what's your cool thing? My cool thing is sticking with

the UK thing is a movie. It's picky blinders, the mortal man. And our godfather, UN, wrote a very good

summary in our Slack room about this movie. And he says it much better than I will.

And so I'm coming from the perspective of a guy who loved the series, all seasons of the series.

I was looking forward to the movie for a long time. I had a little bit of that over anticipation.

But then realized, you know, this is just one movie and I'm used to, you know,

six, seven episodes season. And kind of like what you described about

the Hail Mary. It's hard to cram a full long walk into a two hour movie.

So I would say it was great to see the characters again. The characters are as good as ever.

The acting is as good as ever. This sort of whole production is really nice. The camera work,

the sets are really just the best. You know, great lighting, really interesting scenes. Good

character actors at every level. But the story is, I think, you wouldn't call it flat and I would

agree. It wasn't as sort of sharp or as deep as it was in the series. It weren't as many interesting

story lines. It was kind of a simple story that just sort of floated along a little bit.

So, and I think on IMDB, it's not scoring tremendously high. What was the rating? It was like

a seven or something, six and a half or seven. But I think if you're at six point seven,

which for IMDB is already pretty good because usually people are very critical there.

Yeah, IMDB rating, you have to take a degree in this all the way. But I think if you watch

the series, you'll like the movie. And it has some some good actors as always.

Rebecca Ferguson just would watch it for her.

He's in it. Tim Roth is in it. Tom Hardy is back. He's one of my favorite from the series.

Of course, Kelly and Murphy is good. I have to say that the character that Rebecca Ferguson plays

is not my favorite. That's probably intense. That's probably intense.

Well, it's not that interesting. I don't think they did a very good job writing her part

in my opinion. I think she didn't have much to work with.

Yeah, because she's a great actor.

Yeah, I liked her a lot in silo. She was really good in silo.

It's coming back soon, by the way. Is it?

This month, even more next month or something, or this year, I don't remember, but it's

definitely coming back. There's another season. I don't know if they've announced that they did.

So it wasn't horrible. Her part was in horrible. I didn't think it was that great.

You know, considering she's a really good actor. Tim Roth was pretty good, though.

I wish it was Tim Roth ever since Resident board dogs.

It only says this summer.

Okay, that's good.

I turn off my Apple TV subscription a while ago. I've been waiting for some things to pile up

so I can start again. Anyway, Peaky Blinders, Immortal Man.

I give it two thumbs up if you're a Peaky Blinders hand.

Okay, I could now quote this quote, straps, but what has two thumbs and doesn't give a crap?

It's really interesting. I might actually watch it. I'm not into Peaky Blinders,

but this is right back up Ferguson.

You might like to period. It's sort of early days of World War II.

Yeah, which is an interesting time.

You know, I like the sets with the cars and the buildings and the costumes are always

kind of interesting from that era. Yeah. Yeah, different. Oh, yeah.

Ian, what's your cool thing?

I've gone for an old school thing in a way these days. A male client and an actual email client.

Wow, we don't use these things anymore that much. No, it doesn't.

I was getting fed up of our look and I thought, well, it's free out. There was out there

these days. I stumbled on this and I've been playing with it last couple of days and it's

excellent. It's a really good offer. It's a really good email client support. It's about every

format of vendor of email. You can hook into it. It's got good short cuts. It's got a nice

interface. Well, soon too well designed. It's cross-platform. That was interesting to me. It's

cross-platform. It means on this Linux machine I've got here. I have the client installed.

I've got the same one of the Windows VM. I've got the same one set on a

on a laptop in the house and it all works very nicely. I'm very impressed. The only thing

it could do with is synchronizing of accounts. If you log in with one of their accounts,

you can carry your accounts and that will be even better. Otherwise, I'm so to be impressed.

It's working very well. It's sat here busy doing its work on this machine and it's great.

I partly wanted to try and lift my, I didn't want to keep connecting to webmail on my work machine

anymore. So I've got a little VM that I wanted to have everything in and you've got two different

tabs of different mailboxes open in a web browser. Oh my god. Forget that.

Let me just choose the one. Exactly. So a mail client avoids that.

And that works. Especially if it's a Google product that you use it for.

It's not an electron. It shouldn't be an electron. That's the point. It should not be an electron.

There is really no reason for it to be an electron. It's not a bloody electron.

The thing either, which is even better. And it's open source. It has a good community supporting it.

So currently, it looks quite interesting. It'll all go wrong, of course. But at the moment,

and I tried Thunderbird and Thunderbird's a great big car crash of a thing still.

I always had to tell you that. For my use case, it works very well. As I said, I've got

now jumped into the personal email and things that keeps you off my work machine.

Very cool. Yeah, mail client would not have expected that in 2026 thing. I mean,

you would think that there is no market anymore. Everybody has settled. Like, what we just

talked about in smartphones. Nope. Nope. There's still a business to be made. Next week, Ian's going to

bring a fabulous MP3 player for his cool thing. Oh, yeah, we're going to see client.

Hey, you're a sea client. Why not? Why not? One that collects all the different systems into one,

right? Yeah. That would be hilarious. My cool thing is, oh, I didn't hit

sensey. My cool thing is a second season of a TV show I love. It's the pit. It's basically a

Pittsburgh emergency room, like a hospital emergency room. And it's kind of in a style of,

I've picked it last year at some point when they first had the first season. So it's already,

like, if you didn't have to wait a full year to get the second season, which is awesome.

I think I'd like, I want to say, in the summer somewhere, they started showing that last year.

And it's kind of in the style of 24 where, like, you basically, it's one, it's one,

13 hour shift, basically, so 13 episodes. Each episode is one hour at the emergency room.

And you follow a cast of, yeah, emergency room professors. It's a teaching hospital. So,

like, you get the attendings and like, I'd say, the adults in the room, but you also get all the,

like, learning students kind of young doctors. So it's a very, very diverse cast,

Noah Wiley, if you might know from ER is basically the, well, he's one of the produce executive producers,

but he's also the kind of one of the main characters there. And season two, I mean, season one was

amazing. It is the most realistic for TV show, medical TV shows you can have.

I've, there's literally a whole thing on YouTube and social media. If you're, if you're so watching

that, where people, like, professionals working in medical, like, emergency rooms, watch this show

and then comment on it. And it is still a TV show. And there is still little things that are not

exactly because they're still actors, but they do actually have professionals set. And like,

something I learned in one of the interviews was like, the director will literally step out and

the, the medical professional steps in and then basically tell them what to do.

So like, they went through training before, so that everything kind of flows and feels like

and all the, like, there were people that went on set, like, professionals, they were like,

and they opened drawers and they're like, yeah, that's where it was. This would be, like,

stuff like that. It is literally set up in a way that it's a real hospital. That's also the set

is a, it's a closed set. Right. So, so it's not like three walls in a camera. Like, it's literally,

like, it's, it's a room, a massive emergency room, like, room, all the walls and everything.

It's round, ish. And like, they literally just walk around. So it's, it's, it's fascinating.

And what I've found really cool is the second season, especially.

They dealt in the first season already with, with some of the problems in the medical field,

like, overworked staff, effective COVID right on the people, really, on the professionals that

had to go through that. Like, all the, the trauma also that, that simply comes from working in

an environment like that. All the issues that the medical system in the US has and all of that.

And like, how that affects the people working there. And you see that in season two. Like,

like, like, Robbie, like Dr. Robinovich, more widely, he looks tired in the second season.

Like, really looks tired. And there's a reason for that. And it's like, it's not that everybody is happy

and oh, cool. There's a new medical mystery and whatever. No, like they're struggling.

They're struggling with real-world stuff like cyber attacks, like ice was one of the last episodes

with ice being in hospital. Kind of in a tame way because they brod it a year ago.

So the, the reality was you worst than what they had thought back then. So stuff like that. So

it's really like, really, you see the toll that this, this kind of environment also takes. But also

the gratifying parts that that you get to do. They had, they had a really good scene about, like,

rape and rape kit and how that works. And like, how hard that is on, on, on the people.

And stuff like that. And they said, I've seen professionals talk about, they're like, yeah, that is

actually how it is. So good job as well. They also little things. They were little mistakes. They

made that they corrected in season two. Where professions when I get it bothered me because that's

not how it is in season two they had corrected it. So good job. Season two, the pit. If your

screen mesh is you don't like blood, don't watch it. Yeah, it shows, it shows everything.

It's like, I'm also crazy how they did that because like, it's like, there's, there's an

amputated foot and like, there's an amputated foot. Like, how did I do that? I mean, for sure,

it's fake, but how looks real. Or like, not amputated. It was ripped off. That's one of the things you

see shows up in a bag. So if you don't like stuff like that, don't watch it. You've been warned.

Good. I think then, that's it for today. Another show in the can. So I think we should, we should let

people know how they can ping us about things or find out more about what we're doing. Ian,

it's start with you this time. May, where can you find me? You know, Slack one on Slack. That's one

of the Slack group on Slack. Yeah, I think it's something else I would say. I'm there with

T-O-A-B-O-A. Turn it off and back on again. My hand, I've been on everything since the internet

was a thing. And then I'm also available on LinkedIn. You look free and brown. I work with

himself where those are the best places to find me. Very cool. I'm fairly simple when it comes to

social media. Very good, very good. And Tom, how about you? Very good people find out where we're

going to find me on. I was like, who else is here? I can find me on Mastidon. I am Tom F at SFBA.Social.

Very cool. And you can find me on the picture on the Mac show every week. So we'll see each other

tomorrow again. But I think with Jeff, I think he should be back. If not, you're going to have to

work with me somehow. Everything I'm doing, including all the cool things, the social media links,

the podcasts, the projects, and the occasional blog posts. And occasionally, usually means

once every couple of years. But actually, this year, I've already published the second one,

because there was one about Starfleet Academy. And I have a follow-up kind of in the works.

But I posted also about my first solo flight that I took two weeks ago, almost. And that was

a lot of fun. And I posted about that on my blog. So if you haven't, I mean, it's basically what

I've written on LinkedIn. But if you're interested, there's a blog post on my website,

www.supatries.com. We'll take you there. And then with a certain death gamut, I do Retro Rewatch,

rewatch Retro TV shows, and then talk about it. It's a lot of fun. We're going through Stargate SG1

with some interactions in the season breaks. We just started a couple episodes ago with Stargate SG1.

And I think the next one is one of the most fun episodes this season. So far, at least,

season four episodes six, that is Window of Opportunity. And you will have to watch it to see what

the Window of Opportunity was. And it's really a lot of fun. I could tell you that.

And yeah, and that's it. We are also on British Tech Network, is on social media,

at on the good social media, we're on massodon, at British Tech Network, at takingout.social.

Or on BlueSky, at BritishTechNetwork.com. And you can still send an email at British Tech Network,

at gmail.com. And I think that's it. Do you ever get something? Do you think so?

Think that's it? Then tune in again tomorrow for the Mac Show. And then again, next week for the

Mac Show. And everybody, have a great week.