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Hey everyone, welcome to At The Letters for Friday,

April 17th, 2026.

Ben Nicholson Smith here with you along with Shadeviti.

Soon we'll hear from David Singh.

Art and swelling is in transit after covering

a rather disappointing Toronto Blue Jays series

against the Milwaukee Brewers,

in which the Blue Jays lost two out of three.

And we're going to discuss it because there's a lot to get to

in that series and even a little bit bigger picture.

So Shade, before we get to the Jays, how are you doing?

I'm doing all right, Ben.

I think probably a little bit better than the baseball team right now,

which I think isn't an immensely high bar at the moment.

No, that is a, it's a pretty low bar considering the Blue Jays

have won four of their last 15 games.

They have lost five consecutive series.

They are still dealing with a lot of injuries.

So we definitely have a lot to get to.

Hopefully all of our listeners are doing better than this team is

at this moment in time because it has genuinely been a tough stretch,

including these last two games in Milwaukee,

where the Blue Jays lost two to one each time.

There were some positives on the pitching side,

but man, it's just tough to win games

when you're scoring one run on any given night.

For sure.

And when you play with so little margin for error,

anything that can go wrong will go wrong

when you're in the type of rut that they're in.

And I think we really saw that over the final two games

of that series, right?

I mean, there's a case where the Blue Jays should have come out

in Milwaukee with at least a series win.

If not a sweep, you think about the eighth inning on Wednesday

where the Brewers combined to hit maybe 125, 130 feet

of ground ball and it turns into two runs

and it gets them a victory.

Super frustrating ending to that one.

And then again in the finale where you get a lead off walk

in the seventh inning, you get a couple of bumps

and all of a sudden the Blue Jays are playing from behind

and trying to score a tying run and it's just not there.

And so I think in a lot of ways that series was symbolic

of where they are, where they're clearly not themselves,

they're improvising a little bit on the roster.

You see, you don't see that determined, consistent approach

up and down the line up where I think there's some guys

who are maybe chasing certain pitches

where they're trying to force some contact

and trying to make it happen and you appreciate that

from a competitive standpoint

and how each of these guys is embracing the challenge.

But this is a team that isn't at its best in multiple ways,

certainly from a roster construction framework,

but also through just a performance lens as well.

And so how do they move the performance lens

to get the most out of what they got right now

until the reinforcements arrive?

I think that's the central question

around the Blue Jays at the moment.

Yeah, if they can get back to 500,

start building a little bit more momentum, gain a game or two,

get some players back, they are still in a position,

it's still early enough in the season

where they are one good week away

from being exactly where they should be.

And so these games against the Diamondbacks,

these games against the Angels,

there's an opportunity.

It's always tough, three city road trip,

like no one's gonna sit here and say

that that's an easy stretch at all,

especially when you're playing a couple playoff contenders

and the Brewers and Diamondbacks,

but they have still an opportunity in front of them.

And so I think there is this question

of just like how worried the Blue Jays should be

or how concerning this start is.

So before we get into some of the more granular stuff,

what's your vibe check on that?

I don't think that they're at the point

where they should be immensely worried.

I mean, if they were doing this with their full team,

then you'd be like, oh, what's going on here, right?

But they're making it up with a lot of parts of their roster

and they're missing, you know,

if we're gonna consider that we knew

that Anthony Santanderra wasn't gonna be in the lineup

from the four spring training even started

that they're missing three regulars, right?

And they're important regulars too.

So that's a major challenge to overcome.

We know what a catalyst George Springer is for this offense.

We know what a presence Alejandro Kirk is

and Addison Barger is behind Vladimir Carrero Jr.

when they're in the cleanup spot.

And so just from a lineup construction lens,

like a lot of the pieces aren't sort of optimized

to be at their best right now.

So I think because of that, look,

it's gonna be, especially with Kirk,

it's gonna be an extended absence

is still gonna be another, you know,

five weeks or so of this, at least.

Before he gets back.

Yeah, started a couple of weeks.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it hasn't been that long.

It's something in that range.

So it's still gonna be a while without him.

You know, Barger is in Florida doing some activities

with us, with us, with us,

what a return for him to look like.

And that's a little closer on the horizon.

George Springer seems to be some positive,

positive movement with there.

Maybe it's not as long with him.

But can they, can they tread water

until those guys get back?

And then can they find enough performance

from other guys to just cover this period

and keep them afloat?

I think that's, that's what they're trying to do.

And again, if they were, it, it, it,

because of that, you give them a bit more grace

as they're trying to figure out

what the optimal combination is.

And the fact that they're going to be getting better

from a roster standpoint, that bodes well for them.

And then they're gonna need the injured guys

to come back and hit the ground running.

But I don't think that all of a sudden

they've become this terrible team.

Right now, they're just in a very bad stretch

where not a lot of their key players

are firing and performing the way that they need to be.

And that should correct in time.

It should.

And they still have a talented roster,

tons of reinforcements coming lots of time.

I, okay, I hate doing this

because I know our audiences, Blue Jays fans

and they want the Blue Jays to be good.

I, I feel an obligation to point out

that the playoff odds for this team

have decidedly dropped.

They came into the season around 63% to make the playoffs.

Now it's around 33%.

So it's kind of been chopped in half.

Now look, A, we all know

if there's more to baseball than just the numbers

and there's vibes and there's, you know,

the great stories to be had

and there are players in that clubhouse

who can overcome that 100%.

And also, hey, 33% to make the playoffs,

like that's not a nothing.

Like they can work with that.

If they get their health and win a few games,

then it'll start rising up again to where it should be.

So I'm not trying to set off alarm bells when I say this,

but I do think it's worth noting

that there has been a cost as far as like

what the numbers would tell us

about the likelihood of this team to advance.

And again, they can overcome that

as long as they start getting healthy and playing better.

For sure.

And look, I think you, you can kind of look

at a baseball season.

There are a lot of different pathways

to the number of wins.

And let's say, let's call it 90,

just for the sake of argument

for where it's going to take to get to the postseason.

Maybe it's 89, maybe it's 91, whatever.

Let's just throw out that number.

You know, the less you do early,

it just means the more you have to do late.

You know, you can kind of procrastinate

your way through a baseball season, get super hot

and all of a sudden, you know,

you could have a good week and a half

all of a sudden your playoff odds are back to 75%

or 65% or whatever the number is.

So you have to kind of keep that in mind.

Like, yes, the probabilities are changing,

but the probabilities are all, they're not static.

And you can shift those by performing.

And right now, like Vlad Mirger or Junior

isn't going to be like this all season long, right?

You're going to get more from different guys

up and down that lineup.

When George Springer comes back,

when Addison Barger comes back,

when Alejandro Kirk comes back,

this is going to look a lot different too.

And so I think for those reasons

that you have to understand what is driving this right now?

I think the easy question is sort of like,

oh, what's wrong with this team?

Or like they're in trouble, like what are they going to do?

And the right question is like,

how do they extract more from what they have right now?

How do they get a little bit better?

What's the right combination?

We've seen lots of different guys

in and out of the lead-off spot.

And no one's really going to take in it and ran with it.

There's no one at his Susancha seems to be the guy right now,

but like who's going to lock in and be

and hit behind Vlad Mirger or Junior

and take advantage of teams continued to not pitch him?

And he starts taking his walks again.

You know, I think those are a couple of things.

And who's the player that emerges?

And you know, how does Nathan Lucas get right

and start becoming the deliver the type of key hits

that he delivered so often last season?

You know, Maestro had a big hit in the opener

of that series in Milwaukee.

Can they get a little bit more out of him?

I think that's, those are the types of conversation

the Blue Jays are having as opposed to, you know,

our playoff, how do we change the playoff odds

and things like that?

Because this is going to be

an incremental process.

And it's going to be like, they're not going to get

they're not going to get out of this in a week and a half, right?

And it might not be till May.

It might done be till early June,

which would align with last year

when they really took off as well.

I think the idea of procrastination

is really good for understanding this team

because that's exactly it.

It's like you need 90 wins.

The longer you put it off, the more pressure you put on yourself.

It's like any sort of task that we procrastinate with in our lives.

Like you have a mess in your kitchen.

Well, you go another day without cleaning it up.

Chances are probably a couple more cups

are placed around the sink.

By the time it's, by the time you really get organized.

So that's, I think, a great way to put it.

The amount of work is still there in front of them

each day that passes.

There's an opportunity cost for winning that game.

And in some cases, the game or the way the game unfolds,

it raises questions about this team moving forward.

And maybe one day it's Jeff Hoffman.

What do they do?

Another day it's the offense is Okamoto adjusting.

There are all these questions.

That's normal for a major league season.

A lot of those questions will be answered.

And again, this is, we believe a good team.

So they might be answered in a positive way.

But to your point, it does have to be, all right.

What do they do against the diamond backs?

This is where, this is why those cliches in baseball exist.

The one day at a time, they exist for a reason.

I mean, it's boring as hell to hear you or me

or anyone in and around baseball say it.

But they exist because when you're in this situation,

you can't go out and win the 11 games that they've lost back.

You just have to go and win one.

And we'll see this weekend starting against the diamond backs

if they can start getting this thing on the right track.

Yeah, for sure.

I think what would ease a lot of people's minds

and probably help the blue jays as well as it,

if there was somebody who was super hot right now,

who you could look at and go, okay, well,

this guy can help carry them a little bit for the stretcher.

This is a guy who can get them through that.

And, you know, Undershyminus has had some nice hits.

Vlad, he's, you know, he's still hitting in 300

and, you know, OPS in close to 900, whatever that is.

But like, nobody's really kind of right now

being like, is consistently the guy.

And I think if they get one, just one guy going,

one more guy going, then I think that'll make it through.

And, and that will help them.

And then like, it's, get a series win, right?

Like it's Vincent's Oakland or the athletics.

It's been a long time.

Like to go this long, like, you know,

from a J stand point, like thank goodness they swept Oakland

because where would they be if, you know, like that,

opening sweep is now the only thing that's keeping them afloat

at all because they are, as I said, 4 and 11 since then.

Right. And so, you know, win a series and all of a sudden,

you know, maybe, maybe you're getting barter back

or, or springer back on the next homestand.

And suddenly things start feeling a little better.

You know, the tray of savages on the horizon too.

And now the rotation looks a little bit stronger

and you've got like an extra arm that's in the ball pen.

Whatever the case is, there's just,

I think it's just little gains right now

are what, what, are all the blue jays

need to kind of start turning this around.

And then just, you build progressively.

And, you know, we spent so much of spring training

talking about, you know, how will the blue jays

pick up from 2025 and how do they continue it?

And all that is gone now, right?

Like, this is a, this team is in it.

They've got their situations.

Everyone's feeling differently physically.

Everyone's getting pitched to differently

based on what happened last year.

All these adjustments, seeing different stuff.

How are they going to respond

and make adjustments to this moment, right?

That's, that's the crux of the events at the moment.

It's interesting because on the theme of procrastination,

of course, that's more how it seemed

than how it actually is because for people like myself

and you, Shy, who are lucky enough to see behind the scenes,

we know this team is doing what it can.

Whether it's reading, scouting reports,

taking BP late after the games,

doing infield drills before the games,

they're not procrastinating.

They're trying to do what they can to go out there

and get that little bit of extra preparation to succeed

on the field.

And that's what matters is the results.

And on those lines, the front office actually

has been quite proactive.

Gotta see results for it to matter,

but they have been quite proactive

in signing Patrick Corbin here in the month of April

and in going out to trade for Lenin Sosa in a deal

that I certainly didn't see coming

when it was announced on Monday.

So looking at those two deals, the Corbin deal,

the Lenin Sosa deal, what do you make of,

what can we infer about the team's decision-making

from the fact that they have gone out

and added these two players this early in the season?

Well, there are a couple of things.

And I think they're both really important

into understanding the bigger picture around the blue jays.

They remind me a little bit of when they made the moves

last season for Spencer Turnbull and Jose Rania

early in the season when they were having some pitching,

they ran to some pitching deficit then as well.

And that one, this front office isn't going to wait around

to see how things go.

And they're just going to add pieces

and even if that creates some surplus later,

they'll just figure that out.

But if there's an opportunity to add somebody

who's going to help, they're going to do it.

Two is that they have the resources to go and do that.

And in this case, with Corbin was just money,

but Sosa was also a lottery ticket prospect

and a player to be named or cash.

And the blue jays are willing to go and do that

to make it happen.

And so, and in the case of Sosa, it's not,

it's not like they thought, okay,

this guy's going to come in and be our savior.

But they saw a little bit more utility in Sosa

than what they had on the roster in Tyler Fitzgerald.

Someone who fits a bit more of a need,

someone who might get some more reps,

which we saw this week in Milwaukee.

And they just go and do it.

And never mind that this might be complicated

from a roster perspective later or how the pieces

are going to fit.

Like we need the help, you go and do it.

And so those things really matter to your clubhouse, right?

That's noted that, okay,

we're not just kind of sitting on our hands here

as a team, we're going out

and we're turning over every stone

to find any help that we can.

And I know in talking to players last year

that it was really appreciated.

And I think the same thing this time around,

okay, there's a gap now in the rotation.

What are you going to do?

Here comes Patrick Corbin, okay?

There's an opportunity to get some help

for the roster, first it's Tyler Fitzgerald.

And then there's a bit of an upgrade.

So here comes Lenin Sosa.

And so those types of things tell the players

that if there's an opportunity to get better,

the front office will do it.

And it supports all the things that they're doing,

all the work that they're putting in

to try and get better themselves as well.

Yeah, I think that's a great read.

And you know, Lenin Sosa,

you know, he's not Vladimir Guerrero Jr. by any stretch,

but there is something there

when you look at the power to hit 20 plus home runs

in the major leagues,

just his unique play to approach.

Yeah, he's going to strike out a lot.

He's not going to draw walks,

but he can put the bat on the ball.

He can make some things happen offensively for you.

And realistically, like,

there aren't that many position players

traded before July period.

So this is kind of noteworthy in that context.

Arden and I talked about it a little bit

on the last episode,

but this is not just a player who's a waiver flyer.

Like they're going to take a look at him.

And then as you said,

when things get a little bit complicated,

they have some more position players returning.

Yeah, there will be some tough decisions.

But at that point,

you're a month into the season.

You've got some information on how these players

are performing, who's healthy, who's not,

who's performing, who's not.

And I tend to be of the opinion

that those decisions kind of make themselves for you

with the performance of the players

and with the health of the players.

100% and I think one of the things

that you want to be as any team,

but especially a team in the situation

that the Bluesies are in,

is you want to be a constant meritocracy, right?

Who are our best 26?

And sometimes it's the guy who's out of options

or whatever the case is,

the contractual status situation.

But when it's not only about that,

just who are your best guys?

And if somebody is performing and somebody's not,

and that person can be moved off the roster,

then that's what happens.

I think that's a healthy thing

because that means you have internal competition

and you're giving it back to the most deserving people,

or at least who you think are the most deserving people

in the moment, or innings to the most deserving arms.

And so I think from that bandage point,

that's an important message that's being sent.

That's like, hey guys, if you're not going to get better,

we're also going to try to do some things.

We're going to find somebody who's going to get the job done, right?

It's a very, a more subtle version of the Josh Donaldson,

this isn't the tri-league, this is the get it done leak.

You know, it's not quite as in your face,

but that's what this is all about.

And if you're not getting it done,

well, other guys are going to come in

and we're going to give them a chance to get it done.

Yeah, right now when I look at this roster,

and the Jays are not on the cusp of having to make that

decision is I'm not under the impression

that Addison Barger is going to be activated

this weekend, are you?

No, I don't think, I think he's just getting going in Florida.

Yeah.

When I spoke to him on Sunday before he left,

he had mentioned that he was intent on being annoying

and trying to push them to get him back here

as soon as possible, but I would assume

there's going to be a little bit more runway there

before he's back.

So Barger needs some time.

Springer is making progress, that's great for the Jays

and has to be a relief for Springer

after breaking his left toe.

But he's not on the cusp of returning either.

So on the position player side,

there's probably a little bit of time to let this play out.

But if you're the Jays,

you're watching everyone closely,

it's majorly baseball.

Of course you're watching them all closely.

But I think that two guys that stand out to me

are Aloy Jimenez, like what is he bringing?

What is his role?

He's out of options.

So sending him to the minor leagues

becomes a little bit more complicated.

And Nathan Lucas, who has been lost at the plate this season,

does have an option remaining.

And I thought it was pretty telling

that against the Brewers on Thursday, against the right hand,

or Lucas, far from being lead off,

he was on the bench to start the game.

So that, to me, is an indication of the Jays not loving

what they're seeing from him.

And I mean, obviously they wouldn't be loving it

because he's hitting O65.

So those two guys, I think, are players

that I will be watching when it comes to

whose roster spot is in peril

once Springer and Barger are back.

Yeah, I think that's fair.

And look, I think not having the Nathan Lucas of last year,

and him being so far off from that version,

or that player is really hurting this team, right?

And I'm not saying this just dependent on Nathan Lucas,

but like, they definitely think he's trying to do

what he can, of course.

100%, 100%, and there's obviously nobody

that's more frustrated with his season than him.

But he was really important,

and I'm saying this more as a compliment

in terms of what he meant to this team last year,

when he was able to contribute.

And the Jays need those types of contributions, right?

Like, that was part of what made the Jays work last year,

is that when it was that perfect time for that matchup

for Nathan Lucas, he performed during it, right?

And that when there was the Miles Straw Times,

you know, he performed during it,

and on and on in David Schneider,

and all the other guys who were mixed and matched

so effectively last year.

And, you know, this year it hasn't quite played out

that way for a number of different reasons,

and Lucas has started has been the most glaring.

Yeah, and Eli Jimenez, I mean, his spot,

you know, his fit is essentially as a DH.

So once George Springer gets back,

well, how does he fit this puzzle?

No, that's a great point.

So for Springer in particular,

that would seem to be a logical corresponding move,

and then, you know, maybe Barger and Lucas,

there's, I mean, we'll see.

And again, there's things are gonna come up, right?

This won't be the last, sadly,

this won't be the last injury

the Blue Jays deal with this season,

and there's more information to be had,

but that's a great point about Jimenez and Springer.

Yeah, and so, look, there's lots of time,

like Nathan Lucas is not an O65 hitter.

He is much, a much, much better player than that.

And he's one of the guys I think you can see

in his abats where he's maybe chasing it a little bit

and not being quite as selective as he was

at times last year.

And the contact that he is part of his game,

it hasn't been there to the degree.

I mean, this is a guy who can just spoil pitches.

And how many times did we see him go 10, 12, 14 pitches

last year and in a bat, right?

That was a big part of what he brought.

And we haven't seen that from him.

We haven't seen that from a lot of Blue Jays, right?

We haven't seen them spoiling pitches

and being super tenacious and just really frustrating

the opposition pitcher, wearing them down.

And then if you don't get them, then the next guy does,

that connectivity is what's been lacking.

And I think, you know, trying to get one or two

of those guys going, then that just makes the whole better.

You know what I mean?

For sure, for sure.

And it's also true in the pitching side

because other than Kevin Gosmer and Dylan Seas,

the Blue Jays were really having trouble

getting anything from the veteran trio of Scherzer

and Lauer and Patrick Corbin.

Until on Thursday, Corbin goes out five and two thirds,

strikes out six innings, really nice outing against

a very good brewers team.

This is why they brought him in.

And, you know, you mentioned Traia Savage before.

The Blue Jays, as we record this,

haven't announced what their plan is for Traia Savage.

So, you know, bear with us folks.

This discussion might get dated pretty fast,

but I, you know, seeing the way Corbin pitched,

I don't think that's the last start he's making as a Blue Jay.

Like, I think he stays in the rotation

and I don't know how they fit the pieces together,

but, you know, after signing him for a million bucks,

bringing him on, getting him to this point,

I think he keeps rolling.

Yeah, I think you can definitely make the case there.

And, you know, and I'm not saying this

with any knowledge of anything,

but I wonder just with Max Scherzer and his forearm,

does the thing need a break there

to maybe knock out that tendonitis

instead of trying to pitch through it?

You know, I just think there are a lot of different

moving parts for this rotation.

And there probably will be all season long

as different guys are slotting in and slotting out.

Jose Barrios is potentially on the horizon as well.

And so what happens at that point, you know,

we've, we, Joe Manteply was pitching in leverage today

and who would have imagined that back when camp broke,

you know, three weeks ago or whatever that was.

Who would have imagined Joe Manteply

when they broke camp?

Exactly.

Let alone leverage.

Yeah.

So this is, this roster will transform a lot.

And, you know, the Blue Jays have been more active.

They've made roster moves more days than not this season,

which tells you kind of a bit about some of the churn

that they've had to sustain just to,

just to get through certain days.

They appear to be headed to a more stable spot.

And, you know, Patrick Corbin's first, first start.

I mean, you know, credit, credit to him.

I mean, he's, he's trying to stay sharp at with,

with at the Cressy facility.

And it's one minor league outing.

And then he's in a major league game.

And so I thought against the Brewers,

his, his command looked a lot sharper,

his stuff looked a lot sharper.

And that, that's a, that's a pitchers

and give you a chance to win a ball game.

And I think that's all the Blue Jays asked for him

and he did that and plenty more in on Thursday.

Yeah.

Now, another question that surrounded this team

a little earlier in the week,

and has since subsided maybe a little bit.

But Jeff Hoffman blew a save.

It's his third blow and save of the season.

And with that, of course, there's frustration.

I'm sure Hoffman has some frustration there.

And of course, fans watching that.

I mean, it's, it's kind of gutting to see that.

A few times in a season where everyone really counts.

The Jays are in a very close AL East right now.

So with that being said, I mean, I look at Hoffman.

I'm like, he's striking out 44% of hitters he's facing.

I, not to brush away the, the frustration

of those three blown saves.

But if someone's striking out 44% of batters

that they're facing, that's a dude I want in leverage.

100% and look, I think one of those blown saves.

It's the, you know, it's set up by the Tyler Heineman error

then on what you've been the end of the game there too.

So it's hard to hang that one fully on him.

Then, you know, the, the first one was against the athletics.

It's the, the Shea Langaleers Homer on a pitch

that is below the strike zone and out of the zone

and like the only pitch that in that vicinity

Langaleers has ever hit out.

So it's like an outlier swing there.

So I think you're going to explain those things away.

But you're right.

Like ultimately it's the ninth inning

and you don't get that grace because of how much it means.

And what are you doing to make the results match the stuff?

And I thought the, the opener in Milwaukee

when, with that, that outing was really the first time

this year where we saw Hoffman not having it

and it wasn't looking the slider.

It didn't have the split, didn't have the, the good fastball

where it's like, you know, 97, 98 the whole time

that it was more than 96 might have touched 97 once.

That, that version of Hoffman we hadn't seen before.

And so if it, if it's that more often

than I think you're, we're having a different conversation.

But up until that outing, everything was, well, why,

why does this not produce a better outcome?

And so if the next one is kind of like the Milwaukee outing,

that's going to change the conversation

whereas if he starts, comes in again

and is blowing guys away, you know,

on the fastballs, the 98 and the sliders break

the super sharp and the splitter is, is all nasty.

Then I, it's not, it's not a front burner question

at that point.

So I think this is a complicated one for,

I certainly it's an emotional one for fans

and understandably so because of what happened in Game 7.

Unfortunately for Hoffman, that's part of what is going

to follow him because that memory will be there for good.

Of course, of course.

But it's also not necessarily fair to him

and it's not always indicative of the way that he's pitching.

Right, it's, I think it's, I think it is fair actually

but it's definitely not indicative of how he's pitching

and it's like, it's fair in like a really cruel way

because it's like the glory that comes with Game 7

and winning is also like not, almost like not fair in a way

but it is what it is and I think the same applies

to the frustration of that loss and look,

the point now is like moving forward.

Who's your best option?

And the Jays have a few good options

because for all of them's off to a great start,

Tyler Rogers, notwithstanding the weirdness

of what happened Wednesday, he's off to a great start

and Hoffman striking out 44% of hitters.

So they actually have some good choices here

and from that standpoint, the bullpen in a way is a positive.

Yeah, for sure.

And I, of all the things that you're worried about,

I don't think you're looking at the bullpen

and going, what are we going to do here, right?

Right now, even the starting rotation

the last two turns, even with the shorter outings

over the weekend against the twins,

like you're like, okay, the rotation is sort of steadying

and the bullpen has been steady

and the real question right now is just where the,

where the run's going to come from, right?

And that will take a little bit of pressure

off of everybody.

And you know, the one thing for the bullpen too

is that at some point this season, you know,

Jimmy Garcia is going to presumably be a factor too

and that's going to be a major boost.

So if Jimmy Garcia comes back and I know that

from the stuff that I've heard,

the blue jays are very excited about the way

that he's throwing the ball and a lot of the focus is on

just making sure that he's ready to be,

able to pitch on back-to-back days

and just be used the way normally

without too many restrictions.

And so I can see them taking their time

between when he actually gets back.

But when he does come back,

it sounds like the blue jays are going to get

the best version of Jimmy Garcia.

And if that's, if you're adding that back into the bullpen,

that's a major, major change.

Yeah, I know it really is.

I mean, that would potentially be a huge ad for them.

Some point in the next few weeks, we'll see.

But they haven't put them into minor league games yet,

so it's hard to pinpoint a timeline.

But with relievers, it's not like he's eight weeks away.

Like if things go well, it could be sooner.

So we'll see you on that front.

Last question from me here, Shay, before we let you go,

debacks this weekend, angels with, you know,

pretty much prime Mike Trout.

He's going on a home run heater right now

coming up next week.

What are you going to be watching for

in the course of the next week or so

with the jays and with their opponents?

Well, are they going to get consistent innings

from every one of the rotation that is not

gaussman and cease?

I think that's probably number one.

Because the more that they're doing that,

the more the bullpen's going to light up the way

that you want.

And you're able to be optimized on the mound.

And then, can they just start scoring some runs, right?

I think this is going to be a tired conversation.

It feels like it's basically the one that we've been having

since that athletic series.

But where has the offense gone?

And especially while they're out,

can they manufacture?

Can they play a bit of a different game?

They don't have the slug that they would normally have.

How do they make up for that?

I think that's obviously the front and center

question before this team.

And then lastly, I'm excited about getting a look at the

resurgent Mike Trev, right?

It's been so long.

The game has missed him.

And baseball is better when Mike Trev is awesome.

And it's hopefully he can find a way to stay healthy

and keep on performing this way.

The blue juice would like it if he took a pause

when they see him next week.

But I think it's pretty exciting that Mike Trev is back

and hitting the way that he's hitting.

It's weird that he's just one year older than Aaron Judge.

That's trippy to me.

But we'll let our listeners contemplate that one.

Shy, thanks so much.

Yeah, no problem.

When we come back, we will discuss more about the Toronto

Blue Jays with sports nets, David Singh.

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All right, we are back on Atholetters and joined now

by sports nets, David Singh.

David, we are here to talk some baseball.

How are you doing today?

BNS, I'm doing well.

Thanks for having me on again.

Well, it's always good to talk baseball with you.

Normally that's happening at the ballpark today.

We are both, we're both here in Toronto.

And it's a good chance actually to almost zoom out

a little bit and maybe pull the curtain back a little

on a story that you've been working on.

It's not out yet as we record this.

So you can consider this a little bit of a teaser,

a little bit of a preview into this story

that you've been working on.

But I have heard from you a little bit

as you have been working on this feature about Myelstra.

And wanted to pick your brain just about what you learned

and about that process to give our listeners

just a little bit more of insight into Myelstra.

So I guess like to throw a big picture question

at you to start.

Why are we here talking about Myelstra

who's like the fourth outfielder on the Blue Jays

and a bench player?

And yet he is still a very important part of this team.

Yeah, so basically it started last season.

So I mean, you and I were there around the club

from when they started to turn things around.

And if you remember, you'd hear Myelstra

mentioned a lot within the clubhouse.

I mean, not only was he exceeding expectations

after that trade, but he was doing quite well

in replacing Dalton Varsho.

And then from a clubhouse perspective,

you'd start to hear players mention, you know,

basically how to steal a pretty easy kind of cliche hair.

Who's the straw that stirs the drink in the club?

Yes.

I mean, we'd start to hear that a lot.

And you and I being in the clubhouse, we'd see it.

We'd see him interacting with Chris Bassett.

We'd see him interacting with position players

with Ernie Clement with David Schleider.

You'd see him talking to Addison Barter.

You'd see him talking to relievers.

You'd see him everywhere, right?

And so then as that unfolds,

as the season unfolds, fast forward to the playoffs,

he became, you know, in my opinion,

and I think in the opinions of some other reporters,

he became almost like a spokesperson for the Blue Jays.

I think specifically to the Seattle series, the ALCS,

I remember one of those games in the Seattle,

in the Visitors Clubhouse after the game,

straw was the only guy there amidst an empty locker room.

I think the Jays had just suffered a loss.

Forgive me for not remembering exactly which one it was.

That was a, you know, a crazy time period.

But I remember there weren't many players in the clubhouse,

but there was Milestra sitting at his locker,

just waiting to answer questions,

and wave after wave of media,

whether it's Toronto media,

whether it's US media, would be flocking to straw,

who would answer questions for the team.

So anyways, as the off season unfolds,

I got the idea, you know, with spring training approaching,

figuring, okay, I wanna do something on Milestra,

and I kinda wanna answer the question,

what we've heard he's good in the clubhouse,

but what exactly does that mean?

And so I figured that spring training

would be the best way to kind of attack that story.

Now, I'm sure as you've explained to Listers in the past,

access for us in spring training is pretty strong.

I mean, you show up at 8 a.m. to the player development complex

in Dunedin and players are willing to talk.

They're not stressed out,

they it's a pretty easy going vibe.

And that, for me, figured a good chance

to start to learn about Milestra

and kind of unravel the yarn to the story.

And you know, without ruining too much for the reader,

still want the readers and listeners to check out these.

Please do go read it.

Do not, do not only listen,

because the story itself, I had a chance to read it,

awesome story, some great stuff in there.

So we're not gonna give all of that away,

but yeah, go ahead with what you're gonna say.

Yeah, so I just basically tried to answer

as best as I could,

what makes him such a reverend figure in the clubhouse.

So I spoke to about eight different people,

eight or nine different people,

and trying to understand, you know, who is Milestra?

And one of the takeaways I'll share here

is from David Schneider.

He said that straw has a way of just making you feel good

when you're having a bad day.

And that was something that a lot of players echoed

within the Jays clubhouse.

He's just got this unique way about him,

where, you know, he approaches things

with self-deprecating humor,

and he just gets you to open up.

Schneider, David Schneider had a quote,

something along the lines of basically,

there are guys in the locker room who don't like to talk.

But somehow, Milestra comes around

and they become a chatterbox.

And I thought that was pretty,

that was like a pretty strong microcosm

for, or, you know, illustration of who Milestra is.

And so the piece looks at that,

what he does in the locker room, you know,

how he operates, but then how he achieved,

or how he learned to act like this as well,

because Milestra's got a pretty interesting backstory.

I mean, readers can read about this, but in the piece.

And some of it is, I mean, most of it is kind of already out there,

if you've done your digging on Milestra,

he's had a winding career arc.

So the piece looks at that and tries to connect

his winding career arc and how it shaped him into who he is today.

Yeah, it's pretty cool because, you know,

for a guy who arrived here,

kind of through the back door, I guess you would say,

it was all connected to the pursuit of Rocky Sasaki

and trying to obtain international bonus room

from the Guardians.

The Guardians wanted to get rid of Milestra,

which is kind of remarkable,

because he had a great season with the Jays last year.

And here he is now with the Blue Jays,

a really important part of things.

And I think like, from my standpoint,

watching Milestra could definitely echo what you said

about a guy who is just like, you know,

in the middle of things, really comfortable talking to everyone,

comfortable talking to, you know, whether it's John Schneider,

whether it's the coaches, whether it's Max Scherzer,

but also guys like Vlad Jr. Chris Bassett,

pretty much anyone.

You know, David Schneider earned a command, of course.

Like, he just seems to know everyone

and that's a good vibe to have in the clubhouse.

And I think to like, Milestra is someone who seemingly,

you know, he's, he's a major league player.

He's a good major league player,

but there is a part of him that's also marveling at these guys

and marveling at, oh my goodness,

I can't believe Vlad Jr. just did that.

I can't believe Dylan C's just struck out 11.

And he can feel that and articulate that in a way that,

you know, I think for us as writers,

he's actually pretty helpful because he gives voice

to some of those feelings that fans have

or people watching from the stands have.

That's an excellent point.

He's almost like an everyday person

who's also a ball player.

Like an everyday fan who's also a ball player.

And I think that really shown, like I mentioned,

in the playoffs, I think that's why, you know,

the national media in the US, as well as us beat writers

for the Jays, that's why we gravitated to him

because you're right.

His perspective was it comes across so nicely

and refreshing compared to sometimes, you know,

player quotes can get a little bit stale,

a little bit boring, but he approaches life

as a big leagueer with a sense of wonder.

And, you know, to tie it back to the piece,

I think the piece kind of looks at, you know,

Miles Stra has been through the ringer in his career.

He's been mired in Triple A, you know,

banished a Triple A by the Guardians in 2024,

the year before he got traded to the Jays.

During a season when Cleveland could have actually used,

you know, all the help it could get,

Stra was so bad that he was banished there.

So things like that, I think, kind of add to the sense

of wonder he approaches life with.

Yeah, it's interesting because like, you know,

no one likes to think of it this way,

but like, there are people who can be bitter

within Major League Baseball.

And sometimes that might be reporters,

sometimes that might be players, coaches, it can happen.

And it shouldn't because it's the best of the best.

And yet, you know, it can seep in,

in my observing Miles Stra,

he is someone who like, there is no bitterness whatsoever.

There's a lot of like, hey, this is great.

We're gonna make the most of this.

He brings like a positive attitude

and reading your piece,

that positivity really came through.

Yeah, he used this term way back in 2025.

I remember speaking to him early in the season

when he was, you know, he got off to a strong start

last year and he said that he was having fun again.

And I think that's a big thing for Stra, you know,

he'd been through times in his career

where the fun had been sucked out of the game.

But arriving with the Jays,

he kind of rediscovered that fun and it's showing.

And then, you know, on top of all of this,

like, you know, you can be a good clubhouse guy

and you can mesh well with players and all that,

but results matter.

That's the main thing.

And you know, Stra, the results were there last season.

2.9 war, he got into 137 games.

Now, his numbers stronger probably in the first half

and they were the second half,

but the results were definitely there.

And in a short burst of action, you know, sporadic

at bats this year,

he's also made his impact this season as well.

And I think that kind of contributes

to the overall aura of Miles Stra.

He's not just a clubhouse guy,

he can also contribute and make good

on opportunities on the field.

Yeah, so now pulling, we've pulled back

the curtain a little bit here.

Let's pull back the curtain a little bit more.

And, you know, when you're going up to players

to ask them about Miles Stra,

like, what was their reaction?

You know, like, are they surprised?

What kind of reactions did you get from players

without giving too much away

when you brought this topic up to them?

Oh, that's a great question.

I mean, right away, you can tell they want to talk

about Miles Stra.

Like, literally, you can see some eyes perk up.

When you mention the name, Miles Stra.

And that says a lot.

As a journalist, as an interviewer,

you know, you're going to have a good interview

when someone stops what they're doing

and immediately starts to make eye contact with you

and they perk up when you approach them

with a certain subject you want to speak on.

And that's kind of what happened with this story.

Yeah, that's so cool.

And then for you writing it,

well, like, what was the vibe for you writing it?

Because I know you worked on it for a long time,

you had started thinking about it as you said

over the course of the off-season

and then into spring training.

Now it's about to drop so people can read that.

But, you know, what was the experience like for you?

Was this a tough one to write?

Was it a story that kind of just flowed instantly?

What would take us behind the scenes

of your writing there?

Yeah, it was a fun story to write

because it's always like a story is like this

are just collecting different people's viewpoints

and trying to mold it into some sort of story arc.

So it was a fun story to write for me.

The reporting process was just interesting

because during the WBC in spring training,

during my stint in spring training,

that WBC was going on and so Ernie Clement was not there.

Vlad was not there.

So I had to kind of report it in pieces.

I reported it a little bit in spring trading,

came home, digested some stuff

and waited till I had access to Ernie,

had access to Vlad and had access to a few more individuals

within the clubhouse to be able to round out the piece.

But overall, these kind of stories

where you get to talk to a lot of people,

they're my favorite ones to kind of attack.

And one thing I like in it too is when you're speaking,

when you're trying to tell the story of anybody,

this is like a feature writing thing, right?

But, you know, you and I have probably talked about this

in the past as well.

When you're trying to find out on a deeper level

about somebody, they can only tell you so much.

Like if I was going to write a story on BNS

and his come up in the journalism world,

you're most people are humble and gracious

and they don't want to talk about themselves.

So I'm going to have to, for a story like that,

talk to BNS's parents, his siblings,

his former professors, things like that

to get a better understanding of BNS.

So it's the same thing with the straw piece.

Well, the straw piece is definitely a winner,

no need to write any BNS pieces.

But yeah, the straw piece is a really, really good one.

So look for that on sportsnet.ca, highly recommend.

And yeah, let's talk a little bit about the blue chase here

from a big picture standpoint as well.

Because this is a really interesting point in time

for this team.

They played a lot of home games.

They have lost a bunch of games.

They have won a bunch of games.

The vibe is kind of ever evolving here.

What's your sense from being at the ballpark?

From, you know, I know your friends and family

who are following this team closely.

What's your sense on like what has been happening

with this team so far this season?

Almost at like a super high level,

zooming out as far as we possibly can at this point.

Yeah, so for the purpose of this conversation,

let's kind of group the two homestands into one.

I think at least 12 games at home,

they had that weird four game set against the white socks

in Chicago.

I know you were there on Easter weekend.

But, you know, let's look at it as if it's one big homestand.

And for me, there's two parts of the conversation.

Before we move on to the players,

I think it's worth discussing the vibes in the stadium,

the vibes from the fans.

I think that's, I think it's important.

You know, so people were looking for things to cheer for

all homestand long, rightfully so.

I think it, from, you know, I'll use an example.

I think it was a game against Colorado

when the Jays were getting blown out.

And I think Kaz Okamoto had a ninth inning home run.

It was a meaningless home run.

But fans erupted, right?

Fans were just looking for something to cheer for.

And I think that was like a common thread

throughout the whole 12 game stint at home.

I mean, gauging from what I hear from speaking to fans

and speaking to friends who are fans

and family members who are fans is, you know,

largely people are disappointed.

You know, I know the Jays are hit with injuries,

but the level of play that people expect

is just not there given that, you know,

what we all saw last year from a team

that captivated the country, you know,

on Route to the World Series.

But I think all of it speaks to expectations are raised

and you can feel it with the fans.

Fans are coming in expecting a top tier,

premier level of play from this team.

And I think that's how it should be.

Like I think that is worth mentioning.

That's the core kind of worth talking about

that it's kind of nice to see fans in Toronto

expecting, like outright expecting perfection

in the way that you see from fans in Fenway Park

from fans at Yankee Stadium.

They come into seasons with expectations

and that's what was, I think that's the general vibe

from fans that, you know, we saw this year so far.

And I can get to the player's standpoint,

but what do you think about that?

Yeah, no, I think that makes sense.

I think the fans have been awesome so far.

I mean, you're looking at nearly 40,000 per game

just showing up so much positivity.

And after the year they had last year,

that makes sense for a lot of fans

it's been their first time back in the ballpark

after the 2025 playoff run, World Series run.

They want to celebrate this team.

I think along with that, it's like, you know,

when I run into people on the street,

when I talk to friends, family, people at the ballpark,

there is definitely a sense of like,

this isn't going very well, like what's going on here?

And it's, okay, how worried should I be?

I think it's the vibe because clearly,

there is some reason for concern, the injuries alone.

And then you add in the fact that they're under 500,

there's clearly reason for concern with this team.

And I think everyone's question is like,

how worried should I be?

So that's the vibe that I'm getting.

But I think yeah, to your point,

there will come a point too.

And there already is an element of this

where it's like this standard has been raised.

And so I do think that fans expect more from this team.

They expect them to be very, very good.

They expect them to be in the playoffs.

And rightfully so when you're talking about

a $300 million payroll and a team

that was in the World Series just a few months ago.

So expectations should be high.

And that's absolutely the right thing.

And so far it's been positive.

There would come a point if they keep disappointing

where that will flip.

And the fans will express more frustration.

And that's of course like the fans write

to express whatever it is that they're feeling

in a given moment.

But I think now to summarize kind of a long-winded answer,

the vibe that I get is like really, really positive.

But like fans now are wondering basically

like how bad is this?

Yeah, and then the second point of the conversation,

the second part of the conversation I think

is what I really find interesting

and haven't written anything about it yet.

But it's kind of something I'm formulating in my head

is just trying to understand like how a player

or how players or how a team in general

draws from what they went through last year.

So I think this happens.

Anybody in life can relate to this.

From a writer's perspective, you and I

were along for the ride in the playoffs

last year and in the World Series.

So we are at a point now where we went through the fire

and we were coming up with story ideas

after that 18-in-game in LA and staying at the home

and writing at the ballpark until 3 or 4 a.m.

and then filing stories.

We've been through that fire.

So we can understand now on April 16th,

the pressure's just not there, right?

Like how can we apply things that we went through

to lower stakes circumstances right now?

You talk about a lawyer who's gone through a big case.

The next time they go through a big case,

they're not going to feel it as much.

Same with an accountant during tax season.

You can go through the examples on and on and on.

It's a human thing, right?

So I kind of spoke to Dalton Varsho about this

at the end of the homestand to get his thoughts.

How do you take from last year and apply it to now

when the stakes are lower, but things are not going well?

He said they realize they're not playing well.

He said it's evident.

All the fans in the building have a right to be upset

because the Jays are just not playing well.

But he pointed to things such as feeling calm

amidst all of the injuries that, for example,

the Jays kind of cemented a next man up mentality last year.

So Varsho was explaining that that is something

he carries forward into this year

that amidst all these injuries,

somebody's going to step up.

Last year it was Miles Straub.

We talked about Miles Straub earlier.

He stepped up for Varsho when Varsho was hurt a couple of times.

And so Varsho pointed to that from a team perspective,

they were a middling team until what was it?

June and then they turned it around

at the kind of drop of a hat.

Really July against the Yankees.

That's the series that stands out to me

is that Canada Day series when the Jays swept.

Yeah, 100%.

And so things kind of just took on a snowball

from there in a good way.

So I think it is a fascinating conversation

to understand and look at how,

or what people on the team take from last year

and apply it to now when things aren't going well.

Yeah, no, I think that's 100% true.

And it's like, how do you turn that knowledge,

which is useful in a really broad sense

into wins and losses?

And what does that actually look like?

Someone like Max Scherzer has been to the World Series

many times, someone like George Springer,

who's been to the World Series many times,

both with the Blue Jays and with other teams.

They do have a really good sense

of just how to pace themselves.

And that's where it is really interesting

when someone like a Springer says,

hey, I feel this urgency to get back

as soon as possible from this toe.

Because yeah, it's early, but we've got to win some games.

And that's coming from a guy who's not

a rookie overreacting to the situation.

That's based on his experience of years and years

playing at the highest level.

So I think that on the one hand,

we can all look at this from the outside

and say, okay, well, they didn't really turn it on

until pretty late in the season last year,

there's still time.

And that's technically true.

But to get to the World Series in 2025,

the Blue Jays had to play incredible baseball down the stretch.

You don't want to put yourself in a position

where you have to play incredible baseball

to get to 94 wins or 89 wins,

or however many wins it's going to take to win the East,

win a wild card spot.

You want to give yourself a solid start in this season,

especially considering the easy schedule

that the Blue Jays have had in the early part of this year.

You want to give yourself a solid chance

so that you don't have to go into overdrive.

So you don't have to go into this incredible mode

that they were able to access last year.

But let's be real, it's a tough thing to do.

So that's where without wanting to overreact,

there is a real importance to just getting this thing

back to 500, starting to gain ground bit by bit.

I know it's tough to do with the injuries,

but that's really important this time of year,

and hopefully some of those lessons they learned

in 2025 can help them now.

No, 100%.

I didn't mean to downplay what's going on

on the field right now, like they need to be better.

I mean, this has been talked about before,

but it's worth underlining.

I mean, any portion of a season that has games

against the Rockies, White Socks, Twins,

you better be taken advantage of that,

because later on, you're going to be playing

the Yankees, the Red Socks, the Guardians,

you're going to be playing better,

the Astral is better, Seattle Mariners,

better competition kind of stacked together.

So that this definitely puts them behind the April,

and it does make things tougher to try to climb out from.

Yeah, anything else on the fans, the vibe, the Roger Center?

I mean, the stadium itself, I'll just throw this in there,

the stadium itself looks great.

And I think that, you know, hearing from fans who are going,

it really is like an improved experience

to watch a game there.

And again, like, shout out to credit to the fans

for just showing up and being there.

We see games on television just now in Milwaukee

where it's like very empty.

That's normal for this time of year when school's in session.

So, Jay's fans are really showing up.

They're hopefully the product improves a little bit,

but the ballpark at least has been,

it's definitely been modernized,

and there's something to be said for that.

Yeah, and shout out to the Jay's for the memorabilia exhibits.

They've set out throughout the 100 level.

That stuff is really, really, really cool.

I would encourage fans to go check that out

the next time the ballpark, if they haven't already seen it.

Just looking at Roger Clemens, Jersey, from like 1997,

the lettering, the font brings back so many memories for me.

And it kind of stretches.

I mean, it kind of underlines 50 years is a long time

for this team, and this is a whole other tangent,

but 50 years a long time.

I mean, you have people our age who identify

with the 90s teams, you have people a little bit older

than us who identify with the 80s teams.

And so there's a lot of representation on the 100 level

on all the memorabilia from different periods

and generations of Blue Jays fans.

And I think who else are the Jays for doing that?

It turned out really well, and it's awesome to see.

So let me ask you this.

So I have two more questions for you.

One, Blue Jays, Jersey's.

We've seen a lot of them over the years.

You've written about some of them actually,

and their history, it's a cool part of this franchise's history,

especially because they've landed in a really good place

with their Jersey, with what they're doing on an everyday basis.

But if you are going to bring back for one series,

maybe it's an occasional, basically a special occasion moment,

you get to bring back one of those vintage Blue Jays,

jerseys, which one are you bringing back into the fold

for a game or two in 2026?

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so the 1997 jersey.

So like, it's tough to describe.

I would encourage you and our listeners to look it up.

The 1997 Blue Jays jersey.

It's got the word Blue Jays in that special font,

that blue font with, I guess, outside blue lettering,

inside light blue lettering, 1997.

That's my peak Blue Jays jersey.

But I also want to add this part of the conversation here

with the black jersey, that now it's,

I'm very happy to see the black Jays jersey

as a giveaway this year.

I know it's got the tray you savage, I believe,

is the name on the back.

And that jersey came out, I think when you and I

would have been in high school.

And it was cool at the time.

Like, I remember it being, the debt Jays had,

the angry bird, I remember it featured in rap videos

all across the states, all right?

And then after it left, and I think fans had associated

it with just the team losing so much,

so they didn't care for it.

And which I think is ludicrous, because Roy,

that was Roy Halliday's, like, the main jersey,

Roy Halliday wore during his tenure with the Jays,

so it deserves some love.

But I remember writing a feature on that several years ago,

maybe 2017-18, and I remember it got so much hate.

People were just dumping me on social media.

And I keep my receipts, you know that.

We talked about this the last time,

if anyone keeps their receipts,

if anyone keeps their receipts, it's David's say.

Yeah, so I hated that I got so much hate

for writing that story.

And then now everyone loves it again.

Now people are going to be lining up

for the Trace Savage, Black Jays, Jersey.

But you know what, I was there first,

and I want that to be known.

That was a defender of that jersey, they won.

Wow, well, you have some conversations to pick up.

And if you see any of those people who trashed you,

you know, at the time in line,

I hope that you have a couple of very, you know,

firm words with those individuals.

So your answer, you're going with the Black Blue Jays, Jersey?

No, I'm actually going with the 97 Blue Jays, Jersey.

The 97, okay.

Yeah, yeah, the Black Jersey is just, that's my number two pick.

Okay, I think I'm going with the same Jersey

because except for, I want to make it very clear,

I want the Brad Fulmer vintage of this.

And like, that's the one with the Canadian flag

in the background of the logo.

Yes, that's right.

Yes, that would be phenomenal.

Not the angry bird, but you know,

the Canadian flag in the background of the logo.

And I think Brad Fulmer needs to throw

at the ceremonial first pitch on this day.

And yeah, I think that'd be amazing.

I would be here for that.

So I want question then, white Jersey or gray Jersey?

I'm thinking blue for a home game with the red font.

Mm, okay, okay.

My pick would be the Canada Dangerousy that year,

which was red, but sleeveless and the under,

the arms were blue.

So that's my, that's my pick for that year.

Now, this is where I get ratioed,

but I'm kind of out on red Jersey's for the Blue Jays.

But let's leave that there because I don't want to get,

I don't want to get fans anymore mad at me

over that, but I gotta say it.

So, okay, last thing.

You have a very good eye

for what's happening on a baseball field,

not only with how players are performing,

but sometimes with what they're wearing.

And you might think, oh, they're wearing uniform,

like they're all wearing the same thing, not the case.

And if you sip a side David's thing

when you're watching a baseball game, he will point out,

hey, so and so is wearing eye black,

that's very interesting.

So and so is actually wearing sunglasses

that they weren't wearing the other day.

John Schneider's wearing a different watch.

Oh, interesting.

And tops on that list that catches your eye,

sometimes literally catching your eye is chains.

And we might have talked about this in the previous episode.

We certainly talked about it in real life,

but here we are a few weeks in to the 2026 season.

What chains, what jewelry the players are wearing

is catching your eye early on this season.

Yeah, and shout out to Mitch Bannon of the Athletic,

our good friend.

I would consider him part of our chain gang.

We're talking about chains all the time.

So now with chains, I have an interesting point

I want to throw at you regarding chains.

So I think that there is a sweet spot

where of players wearing chains

and needing to perform versus struggle.

So I'll give you a couple examples.

So Jose Caballero, right?

He wears two chains.

One of them is a fat Cuban link chain

and the other is like a smaller one.

But like, it's a flex.

It's just a pure flex by Jose Caballero.

It's really just stunning to look at.

The other day, he walks off

our old friend, Jordan Romano, on the angels.

And all the pictures, all the cameras

are catching Caballero celebrating

with his two glorious chains, right?

Okay, that's one.

On the other hand, you have Trevor McGill,

Bruce Closer.

He's got two chains as well.

I don't know if people were watching against the Jays,

this series against Milwaukee.

Yeah, he's got two chains, right?

He blows a save versus the Blue Jays.

Three runs, three hits, did not look good.

Even his body language on the mountain

just looked poor that game.

And so I would ask you,

what do you think about, you know,

do players who wear chains,

does it put more pressure on them to perform?

Because I know that you're a runner

and I know that you've competed in many marathons.

Now, if I were with you in a marathon

and I'm not as good of a runner as you,

I don't have that great stride that BNS has.

But if I'm wearing like two chains

and I'm struggling out the gate

and just huffing and puffing,

am I making a fool out of myself?

So I'll pose that question to you.

Right, like what is the point

where it becomes like, you know,

you're, you haven't quite earned, so to speak,

the right to be dressed in quite as flashy as you are.

I think like, yeah, ultimately it's,

the results, the results are there, right?

The results are gonna tell you whether, you know,

you should have swagger or whether you should maybe

go to the gym and, you know,

try to work a little bit harder

and try to try to have a better result the next time.

I think that with that being said,

you can exactly only wear your chains

when you have an OPS over 800

or when your ERA is below 3.5,

or else it feels a little bit reactionary.

I think you almost have to commit.

This is what I'm gonna do.

This is how I'm gonna present myself, you know,

for me, I'm not a, I don't wear a chain.

So that's just, I'm not gonna wear one, no matter how well

I'm, how good I'm feeling, no matter what,

it's just not gonna be how I present myself.

But some of these players,

that's, they love to wear a chain.

Great, go for it.

So, you know, I certainly, you know,

in, from my vantage point,

I find it very interesting.

And it's, of course, as with all of this,

it's up to the players to do what they want.

So it's, it's their choice.

They can present however they want.

I think it's, I think it's kind of fun.

And I think as a fan of the sport,

when you notice, Julio Rodriguez,

Randy Orozarena, Yoshinobu Yamamoto,

some of the guys who wear these, like, really, you know,

more flashy looks, Mookie Betts, you know,

it certainly catches the attention.

Just as I black does, or any of these ways

that guys kind of differentiate themselves

based on their appearance.

And it, once you start noticing it,

like you really notice it.

Oh yeah, and if we were doing like a chain draft,

like of like, you know, players, chains,

and you know, as if this was fantasy,

I keep my eye on Max Clark with the Tigers.

That I think he's gonna blow the chain game

out of the water when he arrives with the Tigers.

And I kind of hope that by the time the Jays

play the Tigers, I believe you're covering that series,

I hope he's up so you can just kind of jump

on that story right there, because it's a story.

356 batting average at AAA, 962 OPS,

Max Clark is getting pretty close to the majors.

And yeah, it's, well, this is where it's really interesting,

because at a certain point, like it actually becomes

a real story, and you and I, you're like,

right now we're just having fun with this.

And I don't think either one of us would ever be

the kind of, you know, journalists

who would try to chain police.

Like that's not what's happening.

Just, you know, I hope people understand that.

Like we are not trying to police this behavior.

We're just discussing, hey, this is kind of fun.

But there are, it became a storyline around Max Clark

where it's like, oh, should he have these chains?

Like, is this too much?

You're not going to read that at sportscent.ca.

That's not going to, that's not going to happen.

But it actually can become a part of the public discourse

where, for whatever reason, it kind of bothers people.

And it's like, you got to, I guess, earn it.

So it's, it's, it's interesting.

Yeah, and it's also like, you know,

I love this conversation.

It's also a unique way that baseball players

can be individuals.

Show their individual personality on the field.

In basketball, you cannot wear a chain.

In hockey, you cannot wear a chain.

In baseball, you can.

So it's kind of a part of the outfit

for some of these guys.

Like I can't picture in my head,

close your eyes and picture Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

I cannot picture him in a baseball uniform

without a fat chain around his neck.

I just can't.

You're, you're, you're, you're, you're well.

Exactly.

And say, say with David Ortiz.

Like, try it as I might.

Maybe I can go back in my memory

and look at Minnesota Twins, David Ortiz.

And maybe he wasn't wearing flashy chains back then.

But David Ortiz in a Boston Red Sox jersey,

if I'm, you know, creating a player in a video game,

that player, that David Ortiz has a chain.

And some of these chains have tens of thousands

of dollars of value.

So it really is a flex.

Like it's, to show up to your workplace

with, let's say, a $45,000 chain around your neck,

that's a flex.

Oh, yeah, exactly, exactly.

I mean, some of the, like some of the chains,

like the only thing is when you get into the chain discussion

too far and you talk about how much they cost.

Some would say we're already there, but let's go.

Yeah, then it just starts to get a little depressing

because some of these chains might be worth more

than our salaries in this year.

Oh, of course.

The Arozerina chain, I have no doubt.

100%.

And actually, it was, speaking of Arozerina,

it was fun looking at the chain from the press box.

I think the last time the Mariners were in town,

you and I had our binoculars there,

looking at the Arozerina chain and almost being blinded by it.

So, you know, when we're talking chains,

the blindness factor is also a component

to, on the 2020 scouting scale.

The blindness factor, you know,

how much it hurts your eyes should also be taken into account.

It really is eye catching, especially when the sun is out.

It just gleams off the chain and you,

I mean, I guess that's part of the point, right?

It's like we like shiny objects.

Humans and crows, we like shiny objects.

So, I think we can leave it there for now, mind you,

there may be follow up discussions to be had

around chains, around future stories.

And when it is time to have those discussions,

we will be sure to call on you, David.

So, thank you for the time today.

Oh, thank you for having me.

It was fun.

Awesome.

Well, that is it for this edition of At the Letters.

Thanks to Shida Vidi.

Thanks to David Singh.

And thank you so much for listening to this edition of ATL.

We will be back soon and we will talk to you then.

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