Increase Your Income, Expand Your Options

0:00Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke, common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Hyundai Ramsey or host Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, newborn bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show is my co-host today. Open phones here at AAA 8255225. Ryan is in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Hey Ryan, what's up? Hi Dave, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey man. Well I'm calling because I'm a single mom of two and I also take care of my mom. And my question today is about how do I manage paying off debt while I'm still incurring

1:01medical expenses from both her and I also have a daughter who was hospitalized and she's got ongoing medical care that's needed as well. Okay. So you have health insurance, I assume. I have health insurance but we have and yes and we've come, we've maxed out the deductible and we're getting close to maxing out the out of pocket expenses as well too but even that deductible is high because you have a high deductible insurance plan. Okay. And so what do you make of your? Well in total 160. Okay. And how high is your deductible? It's 5,000. And what's your max out of pocket? Another 4,000. Okay. So 9,000 does not break you if you make 160. I'm confused. It doesn't break me but I'm also, I've got other expenses that I'm trying to pay off as

2:06well. Okay. There's not. I mean if you have medical bills that are ongoing that exceed the 9,000 what would they be? That exceed the 9,000 it would be well so for my daughter she's, I don't want to say too much but she's got medical expenses that are going to be ongoing for the unforeseeable future. So she's got a chronic issue of some kind. Yes. Okay. But above the 9,000 do you come out of pocket for that situation? I'm sure because it's all fairly new. Okay. Well it shouldn't be. I mean. There's something that they cover and something that they don't. Unless you're trying to get a treatment that your insurance company doesn't cover the 9,000 should be the end of it. Now, okay. So you keep, I'm a little bit confused with the way you're using the words on pay off your bills. You pay your monthly bills. You pay your electricity. You pay your water.

3:07You pay your buy food. So sorry. You buy food. Sorry. I should have said debt. Okay. And then how much debt do you have? So I've got a 20k in a car and 3k on a credit card and then a 190 mortgage. Okay. Good. Good. None of that's out of line. And part of that is an 80 loan. So about 55 of that 190 is the 80 loan. You mean like a second, like an H.O. A home equity loan? Home equity. Home equity. Okay. And so you've got two house payments, a car payment and some credit cards and you've got some ongoing medical bills with your daughter's chronic issues and you make 160. Right. Okay. And then there's my mother as well. Okay. And what are you having to pay for her? Personal. So nurse, so she's got several comorbidities. And so we're trying to pay a nurse to help take care of her.

4:08And does she have income coming in to this situation? She's got social security, but it's not a lot. Like $1250 or $1,000? What? Yeah. Somewhere around this. Okay. And what's the nurse cost? About 25 to, well, depending on how much it's raised it has, 25 it up an hour. Okay. But I mean in a month, what are you spending on a nurse? So we have it. We just kind of do some part time for now. Okay. And what are you spending on a nurse in a month? So about a thousand. And your mom brings in 1200. Mm-hmm. Okay. So we covered that. But it will go up. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, for now, that's covered. In the last two months, you're trying to figure out why you weren't paying your bills, able to pay your bills and that pay extra on your debt. And that's what I'm trying to figure out about asking all these questions where it's going. Okay. Because I still hadn't found where it's going. So it sounds like that you are a warrior princess working very hard.

5:13And you've got the emotional drain of your mom not doing well and your child with a chronic illness. And because you're not running with a full gas tank, it's hard for you to not let all this just become chaotic. And so the bills in an emotional bucket, the bills, have become chaos. And so I'm just interested of if you didn't have all this other stuff you were carrying, you're obviously a bright woman. You would just sit down and make a list of this and start paying it because the math tells me that this is doable. But I think what's happening is you're just overwhelmed. Does that sound right? That's true. That's true. I am overwhelmed. Okay. But it's more than that. It's that I feel like because I was in baby step number four. And now I feel like I'm probably back to baby step number two because of the debt that keeps in. You went and bought a car and put yourself in baby step two. Well, no, I had to buy a car and you used it.

6:14Yeah. I had to buy one because there were a lot of other expenses that had, you know, unforeseeable unfortunate expenses that came off. You got a lot of half-takes in your life. And that went out. Well, it was an HVAC system that went out and the car, I had another car, but it had over 250,000 miles on it. I had just spent three thousand to get it fixed and now it needs another three thousand to get it. You made the decision, put yourself back in this mess. You're giving me all the reasons, but you're still dead. Don't hear ownership as a character judgment or some sort of moral failure. It's owning, I took step A, the world happened to me and I chose this path, not this path. And it hurts. And it hurts. Yeah. But across roads where any path you take is going to hurt. But in that case, and that's most of us, right? When that happens, I'm going to take the path that's going to hurt, but you're going to get me to where I want to be. Yeah. So you got to get back on a budget.

7:14Yeah. Hard core, beans and rice, rice and beans. And no more rationalization of pulling out the credit card or I had to have a car or starting with 250,000. I don't get a crap. You don't go into that again. Period. Period. Because then you end up strapped again, back here. So nothing you have today can't be cleared up. The $20,000 car can be cleared up. The $3,000 credit card can be cleared up. And you can get back on the road. But you're going to have to get above the chaos and make these monkeys all dance. Because you're in the middle of a circus. And so you're going to, you're, you know, there's just monkeys running around everywhere. You're going to have to teach them how to get in the line and how to dance. And that's called a budget and you crack the whip on the money monster and make it behave. Money is a fabulous slave. It's a horrible master. And it's mastering you right now. It's adding to this anxiety of being overwhelmed. You feel overwhelmed with money, with your child, with your mom. And so this is an area you actually can control. The line that I was, I was trained with that was really helpful for me when I entered

8:17into chaotic situations or facts or your friends. When everything feels like it's dumping on your head, what are the facts here? How much am I spinning on nursing? How much am I spinning on food? How much am I spinning on this car? And what can I do to get out of this mess following the facts path here? Because the emotions are big. And that's right for them to be big. The path out here is what's the next right move. Hey guys, George Campbell here. There are a lot of things you probably shouldn't ignore. Your check engine light, that weird smell in your fridge, the smoke detector that's been beeping for six days, and maybe most importantly, your phone bill. The things we ignore have a funny way of costing us the most. And your phone carrier is counting on you, ignoring that overpriced bill month after month

9:21so they can keep charging you more and more. But that's not the case with Boost Mobile. You don't need to keep overpaying when you can pay just 25 bucks a month for Boost Mobile's unlimited plan. And the best part is you can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just 25 bucks a month. Forever. That price will not go up. It is inflation proof. There's no contracts, there's no hidden fees, there's no catch. And since most smartphones have an e-sim these days, you can switch from the comfort of your home just like I did. So it's okay to notice when you're paying more than you should, but you shouldn't keep doing that. Stop overpaying for your phone service, go to boostmobile.com slash ramsy and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash ramsy. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile and Limited Plan. Danny's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Danny, what's up? Hi there, it's me, Dr. Duggy again. My question was, I'm in baby step number two.

10:22I am actually recently engaged and I'm super excited about that. And we're putting on a wedding for May of 2027. And I was wondering how you would help or how you would balance trying to pay off debt and finance a wedding as well as a honeymoon without going into further debt. Good, good. That's a good first goal. Congratulations. So, thank you. What do you make and what does she make? Yes, I am a full-time pastor and a part-time lifeguard and I make roughly about $45,000 a year. What does she make? She is the welder. She knew in her career. She's currently making about $18 an hour and she's looking to join the union and she would be able to do that. She will be able to make roughly $25 to $30 an hour start now.

11:23Okay. And she just started the welding career because that's very low. Yeah, so she just graduated from trade school and she currently worked in a full-time for a local organization. Yeah. Well, she's being dramatically underpaid. Oh, like half of what she should be paid in welding right now. There's a shortage of welders that have gone that know how to actually lay a bead down and so I don't know who got her this job, but they screwed her over. So she can make this at Target stacking boxes without any education. I just paid some welders to do some work in my house, brother. And it was way, way more than what she's getting paid. I'm smiling now. I can't believe that. Yeah. So anyway, that's the thing. Now, how much debt do you have? Well, I've been on baby stuff number two for a couple of years. I have milk and soup right now.

12:24The only thing I have is federal student loans. That's consumer debt. I'm an idiot. Oh, how much is your student loan, man? I was an idiot and I took out a lot. And I currently got it down to about $90,000. Okay. And how much debt does she have? Absolutely zero. She's been a follower of the VAs is Ramsey Plan. Excellent. She was 16. Okay. All right. And so what are you two planning to spend on the wedding? What's your budget that you came up with and you're going to spend on the wedding? Well, one of the things to keep it small. And so we're looking at somewhere between three to $4,000 for the wedding. And then we wanted to take a two-week vacation to somewhere near in Texas or maybe Nakana Island or something. And so we're looking at probably about two to $3,000 to do that. Okay. So you need $6,000 by May. Give or take, yes, sir. Okay. That's $500 a month for a year. Yes, sir.

13:24So 600 bucks a month in your monthly budget. Our 300 in your budget, 300 in her budget goes into the wedding account. And then you work on your debt. Yes, sir. Unfortunately, that would be almost everything. I'm chunking at my debt right now. Okay. So you need a better extra job. Your extra job doesn't do well. Or, and I don't want to give a controversial statement here, but you might not be able to do this ministry job at $45,000 because of previous decisions you made in your life to go six figures into student loan debt. A lot of ministers, as a matter of fact, somewhere around 80% of pastors today are bivocational, meaning they have a full-time job in addition to being a preacher. Yes, sir. And I do work full-time at the pastor. And I work about 20, 25 hours of the lifeguard and some instructor at my local YMCA. Yeah. I find both of those to be really impactful for our community and their community. They're not impactful enough on the $90,000.

14:26Yeah. And you're going to burn yourself out. You're not going to be there for your community in five years because you're going to be completely cooked. Yeah. You need to go make some money so that you can remain in the work of the Lord because, you know, your lifeguard thinks semi-volunteer. I mean, you're not making any money there. And so you really, I mean, you do what you want to do, but you called us. And when you do that, you're always going to get our opinion because we're like an expert on our opinion. So, you know, I think you have an income problem. And you got a slight out-go problem if you only got $300 bucks a month out of $45,000. And so you need to get on a detailed budget and you need to be putting some money aside to the wedding, but you have a $6,000 gold by May and the two of you sit down and go, okay, maybe she's putting in four of your putting in two. I don't care. But both of you have some career adjusting to do. Neither one of you are living up to your potential income producing right now. In common money is not everything, but it does give you options.

15:28And you don't have any options, you're handcuffed. I am all about somebody deciding, you know what? I don't want to do this thing anymore. I want to go make a quarter of my quote unquote market value, whatever that is. And I want to just be here for my community. I love that idea. But if you've dug yourself a $90,000, $120,000 whole, you gave up that option. You gave up that option until you did that, you feel that whole backup. So the fastest way to fill that whole backup and get back even on even ground is to go work a whole bunch of jobs and even do jobs that you might not think have impact, which I would argue with you in a different phone call. I think everybody who interacts with other people has an opportunity to impact people in a positive way, whether you're at fast food restaurant or delivery person or whatever. But you gave up that right when you dug up those holes. I mean, when you dug yourself that big hole, you got to fill that sucker up. And that means you got to go get one job, two jobs. You may have to step away from your church for a season and go make a whole bunch of my doing something that you quote unquote, don't feel called to do. But I got to clean up this mess so that I'm here in the long haul to be here for my family,

16:29for my community, for whatever I believe my faith is calling me to and all that kind of stuff. Yep, that's exactly how it works. So again, we support pastors. We work with churches all across America and we have for 30 years. And so we've got a huge heart for people that want to serve in that way and in that role. But you don't just because it's, you don't get a pass on the math. That's it. You have to address the math. And so in order to be able to stay in that kind of a role and that's what we're looking for, Jessica's in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Jessica. How are you? Hi, baby. How are you? I'm better than I deserve. You're breaking up. Can you speak directly into your phone? Yes, is this better? Yes, ma'am. Let's better, yeah. All right, my question is whether it's a debate between me and my husband. Yes, we'll solve it. We'll solve it. Fantastic. So the question is whether or not he's being spoiled or if I'm being miserly and it's related

17:34to cars. Okay, both of you probably, but anyway, yeah. Both of us probably. So we have three aging cars and they're all doing fine right now. But we imagine that his commuter vehicle will be the first that needs to be replaced maybe in a year or so. The question is that he has bought several new cars in his lifetime and that's what he would like to do again. And I disagree. I've never bought a new car and I don't see any reason to. Okay. I suppose we are in baby step seven. We're free and clear. I'm sure net worth. Probably about five and a half thousand. Not we're not millionaires. Five and a half thousand. I'm sorry, five hundred five thousand. Five hundred thousand. You're a half a millionaire. Okay. Half a millionaire. Yeah, we have the money to purchase a new vehicle brand new if we wanted to.

18:34I just don't really see the reason. So he says that after COVID happened that the depreciation on cars isn't what it used to be. He's wrong. I would call him. I would call himically wrong. Mathematically, arithmetic says he's wrong. Okay. So you can study it for 35 seconds on Google and you'll figure this out. I mean it doesn't take it. You know, jump around and look, look at a new car that was issued in a 23 model and see what it MSRP on it was. Manufacturers suggested retail price and then see what that 23 is selling for today and it is not up. It's down and it's down dramatically. And sorry, but the Fouchy Pandemic didn't help with that. And so I would agree. Yeah, you win. And we tell people not to buy brand new cars because they go down so fast in value until you have at least a million dollars in net worth because they go down so fast in value. And we want you to build wealth, not screw it up.

19:37So you win, you win and you win. Here's something that keeps a lot of parents up at night. Kids are growing up with more access to information than ever before in history. But most of the content is calculated to keep them distracted, make them mad and keep them scrolling, not help them think for themselves. Worldwatch exists to be the antidote to the algorithms. Worldwatch is a video new service built specifically for preteens and teens. For daily 10 minute videos that explain what's happening in the world through a factual Christian worldview.

20:37No outrage, no noise, just clear reporting you can watch together and that your kids can actually understand so they can come to the dinner table, engaged and curious instead of worked up or zoned out. And I love that Worldwatch doesn't talk at kids. It gives family something to talk about. Because when my kids are older, I want them to be able to think for themselves and separate news from noise. And right now you can try Worldwatch free for 30 days. Click the link in the description or go to worldwatch.news slash ramsy and use promo code ramsy to get started. The ramsy offer includes your first full month free on top of the standard 7-day trial. That's worldwatch.news slash ramsy. Here's what's weird.

21:39I went to a thing when I was 22 years old and the guy put up compound interest on the table on the board rather. And he showed us the way compound interest works. $100 a month. And I heard this 44 years ago. $100 a month invested from age 25 to age 65 and a decent growth stock mutual fund at market rates of return is $1,176,000. See I think you should not be allowed to get out of high school until you know that equation. Because it would stop all the stupid socialism stuff. Because you went all I need is $100 a month and I can live with a billionaire. You know from age 25 to age 65, age 22 to age 62, age 20 to age 60. I don't care which 40 years you want to pick it out. You can wait or 40 and do it at 80 if you want but I wouldn't recommend it. See anyone can become a millionaire. It's not that complicated.

22:39George and I are doing an in depth nerd dive. I don't know exactly what an in depth nerd dive means but look that one up. We listen to you talk. We know what it means. We know what it means. Investing essentials. This is the third time I've ever done this event. And it's our two night virtual event next week. It's the only place I unpack my entire playbook on investing. Why I do what I do? Why I don't do what I don't do? Including exact formulas and details on how I pick real estate. How I decide whether I'm going to keep it or not. All new content. We're also going into some wealth planning, a little bit of a state planning looking at that. God in case you're having trouble sleeping. Come watch this event. It will put you right out. Yeah. Tuesday and Wednesday evening. Join us from the comfort of your own recliner. I'm kidding. Take a start at 199. Get yours at Ramsey Solutions.com. Slice of Incer. Click the link. If you're listening on podcast or YouTube. There's got John.

23:40There's like 700,000 people have signed up for this thing. That's crazy. It's going to be like a lot of people sleeping. But yeah. Now we're going to go into the details. We're going to give it. I mean, we've taken the material we did last year. Sadly, we've added a bunch to it. So it's actually not going to be two nights of two hours. Brace yourself. It'll be longer than two hours because we're just not going to be able to cover everything we wrote. We want to do it all. So we're going to do it. There we go. Hey, it's going to be a lot. If you want a lot, you can get it next Tuesday and Wednesday. The investing essentials, two-night virtual event with George and me. Well, let me say this. I think this is important for a big reason that we don't talk about here in the building. I'm not in Paris to say this. This is just truth. I knew you, when I joined this team, I knew you had this show. And I knew you had this message. And I knew you've been consistent with your message. I don't know how nice way to say this. I didn't know you were as smart as you are. Or maybe a better way to say that is I didn't realize the level of intentionality with

24:47which you made decisions. And even in the last five or six years, the way all of our interactions are chopped up and edited and put on clips and then people respond to clips and whatever. I can imagine there is millions of people who see you and hear you say a few things. And this is an opportunity for them to really understand why you do what you do, not only why you teach people, but this why you do this in your own house. And that to me makes this thing a worth it's weight and gold way under price if you ask me. Thank you. That's very nice. It's funny, but it's nice. Cecilia's in Orlando. Hi, Cecilia. What's up? Hi, how's it going today? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Lovely. So I'm about to get married. Yay. Yay. And I just got myself out of debt. Good. And I'm going to marry into a lot of debt. Good. It is a penny fricked. And so I'm trying to figure out I know once we get married, I'm going to help him with

25:50getting out. We've already started the R&D program for him. Wow. Good. Yeah, and it's going pretty good. But once we get him out of debt, he's going to keep spending cash only. But how do I go about saving money and not putting it all towards his spend-for-ift ways? How old are you guys? 51, 52. Awesome. Very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations. I think you're going to have a great marriage. Oh, we will. We've been together for a long time. Opposites attract in good marriages. Spenders attract savers. And that's a good thing. Because spenders need a saver that way they don't have to retire and eat dog food. Right? True. Savers need a spender in their life. So they have a life. Very true. He's the fun guy. You're not.

26:51I'm not. I like my book. And he's there to help you have fun. So I'm the spender at my house oddly enough. And even though I teach this stuff, my wife is the natural saver. And so her natural tendency, if there's any kind of emotion involved in it is to draw back and save. If in my case, I'm an abundance guy, she's a scarcity gal. And so I always figure I can get more money. So I'm going to go do it. And so, but we need each other to create wisdom in the middle. And wisdom is that we need to spend money on having a good life that we both are in agreement on. That's wisdom. We need to save and invest to create a quality future for us and our kids and our dogs and our cats. That's wisdom. And we need to be generous. And we need to be doing all of these things together. So you're going to have to your job when you guys are sitting and looking at the budget is to allow some fun to be in the budget.

27:53And also, make sure your savings is in there. His job is to allow some savings to be in the budget and make sure that his fun is in the budget. Because listen to this. And then when it's all written down, you just go do it and there's no guilt. Because if that's not the case, what you're telling me is a far more concerning thing. And that is you've sat down with this man that's about to be your husband and you've said, I'm uncomfortable with how you recklessly spend money. And he looked at his future wife and said, I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I'm going to do what I want to do. And he didn't say that. He said, okay, let's get on a plan. Is that fair? No, we're on the plan. We have weekly budget meetings now. He just literally handed it all over. No, no, no, no, no, no. You are not his mother. You're his wife. No, but we, right. And we do have our budget meetings and he does have input and I adjust it quickly. But right now we're paying off his debt. Good. Awesome. So there's not a lot of wiggle. Great. You don't need to wiggle. You can pay off the debt. I completely agree.

28:54But I don't want him emotionally turn this over. The two of you, like two 51 freaking year old grownups are making grownup decisions together because it's good for our future. He's saying I agree with Cecilia. I need to clean this up. And so the two of us are going to work on that together. That's an adult decision. Mommy, take my bills and pay them for me is not what we want in a husband. Oh, no, no, that we don't play that game. It's Cecilia. If you all bid together for a while and he sat down and said, I want to marry you and I'm going to change the way I'm doing things. I'm going to take this Dave Ramsey course. I am going to follow these baby step things. I'm going to do a weekly budget meeting. He loves you. But you showing up every meeting and going, well, he's just going to go spend it like generally speaking, a husband will rise to their wife's level of belief in them. Do you know what I'm saying? Fair. Yeah.

29:54And if he's putting the work in however clumsy and awkward it is, he's never done this in half a century. You seeing him do the next right thing, however uncomfortable it is or whatever. And you believing in him? Man, that goes a long, long way. So I'll just fast forward. I mean, 28 years old, almost 40 years ago, we lost everything because of my stupidity, borrowing too much money in the flipping houses and the bank called our notes and we lost everything went bankrupt. But that's not the same Dave today that's on the microphone. And Sharon will tell you, thank God I'm not still married to the same guy I married originally. He has grown and so while my tendency is to spend, the spending that we do at the Ramsey House is very much within the wisdom guidelines. And even if it might make her a little bit uncomfortable sometimes and it makes me happy, then but still it's nowhere near where it was. Is it intentional? I can still have my tendency but do it with maturity.

30:54There you go. Most people think making a will is some huge legal project. They'll get around to someday. If you're working hard to get out of debt and build wealth to change your family tree, don't miss one of the most important steps that can help protect it all, making a will. At Ramsey, we trust and recommend Mama Bear legal forms. Mama Bear has taken something people assume is complicated and made it simple. Their wills are specific to your state and they're built by attorneys to help you protect your family the right way.

31:57You're not downloading some generic form from the internet and hoping it will work. You'll have guidance every step of the way so you can be confident you're doing it right. Plus the whole process only takes about 20 minutes and August is National Make a Will Month. Now you can go to Mama Bear legal forms.com and save 25% on your will with the promo code Ramsey. It's their biggest discount of the year but it ends August 31st so don't wait. That's Mama Bear legal forms.com for 25% off with the promo code Ramsey. Luke is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hey Luke, what's up? Hello, what's up?

32:58How can we help? I was just wondering, my son to be wife is starting college or she just started college and she hasn't left for first semester tuition and I was just wondering if after that we should take out student loans to cover it until she gets her job after school or if we should just pay it off and just live pretty tight for the next three years. How old are you guys? I just turned 20, she just turned 18. What's she studying in college? Medical imaging so she wants to be a rad tech so she'll be making pretty good money coming out. So a two year program and she'll be making 50? Now it's a four year program I think. Really? And medical imaging? Yeah, well she was doing like extra stuff like there's more classes she can take to make more starting off. Maybe.

34:00She's 18. Where did we get this information about this career? For her second cousin does it for a living? Okay, you know how scary that sounds when you say that. Yeah, when you said that, I puckered up pretty good Luke. Okay, I want you and her to go to the hospital and talk to the hospital administrator and find out what they're paying and does it require and does it require a four year degree. That's the first thing. Okay. If we're going to study the purpose of studying the primary purpose of studying, especially when we're broke people, is to create an opportunity in the marketplace that we can make more money. Otherwise you could just go take a job at Target, right? And so if we're going to make $18 an hour after going for four years, then we don't need to go get that degree. That's a dumb degree. Okay, or if you get a degree in left handed puppetry or some kind of bull crap degree,

35:04you're going to be in a barista. So, you need to really study what this is before you invest four years of your time and life into it, much less four years of money. And so that's the thing. One thing too is I think you're fairly new to this whole ramsy thing and someone told you to call here some friend or relative and they tricked you. Because we're really kind of known Luke for telling people to never take out a student loan for anything. And you ask that question with great honesty and it tells me that you probably have not listened to this show a lot. I'm pretty new listener. It was just like currently I don't have the money, but I'd be like I'd be able to save up. No, you ask me if you should borrow a student loan. That tells me that you don't know much about what we do. Because 100% the time we yell at people for taking a student loan, okay? No. Under no circumstances, do you take out a student loan? Yes.

36:04You investigate what is required for her to go into this field of study if she really wants this career or if she just thought it was a way to make money because her cousin said to which scares a crap out of me. But yeah, I really wanted to pick out what she wants to be in life and then what education does it take to do that? So we do not borrow money on student loans. The statistics are horrendous. 100% of the people that take out a student loan have a student loan. Only 57% of the people that start college finish. Okay. That's not even half. That's how bad colleges are. I agree. I decided to skip college and go straight into the workforce because I've been bleeding. Yeah. What we don't want to happen, we don't want you to be in the situation where two years into this four year degree, you all have racked up $30,000 in student loans and then she comes home with what should be the greatest news of your life.

37:07I'm pregnant. And now she's going to decide to stop going to school or she can't do this imaging program because she's pregnant and so she got to do something else. That student loan payment is still due. And so that's what happens in real life. Yeah. So I was 18. I was 19. I was 21. Dude, we had crazy roommates. I lived in some of the wildest living situations. I still took out student loans like a goofball, but like, yes, y'all are scratching and clawing. Y'all are eating, I mean, y'all are eating below any sandwiches and rice and beans. Yes, y'all are just going to scratch and claw. And by the way, y'all could end up with a pretty amazing marriage together, figuring out ways to solve these problems without borrowing money because y'all are in this thing together. So that's a, it could be a cool thing three or four years down the road. Let's verify that this is the proper path to get where you want to go. Let's verify that it is where we want to go. And then let's figure out the least expensive way to do it and pay cash for it. Those are the three things we would tell you to do coming out of this. I'm also going to send her a copy of Ken Cohen's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do

38:10because I wanted to spend some time thinking about who she is because we want to decide if we stay on this track or not. So John, a thousand years ago, when I was a kid, there was the grandfather of the, maybe the great grandfather of the motivational speaking movement was a guy named Earl Nightingale. And Earl famously says, with his deep baritone voice, Americans spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do their career. How'd you get that job? My buddy went over there and got it. He did my cousin did it. That's not how you pick your career. Okay. You look in the mirror and say, what did God design here? How am I designed? What is it I'm supposed to do? And then what, with my natural giftings and talents, what kind of sharpening, can I do called education and tools added in my belt called education to help me do what it

39:15is that I'm put together when I was knit in my mother's womb according to Isaiah. What was I put when God was knitting me together with a DNA, RNA, double helix and a knitting needle? Well, what was he making and what am I supposed to do? You need to think about that more than you think about the purse you pick out or the suit you pick out. No way about it. A suit anymore. But whatever it is, the stuff we spend time on, I fret over what I'm going to buy with this stupid thing and then we just go take a job because your cousin had it. That might not be the case with her, but when he said that, it just went down my spine. Or you're asking even bigger question that I always press on college students, especially college graduates, kind of life you in a half. And does this job, instead of I want to build a life around this job, is this job in service to the person you want to become, like the life you want to hold? And if you want to help people in this particular job, man, you can do a lot of good for a lot

40:18of folks in a lot of different ways. But man, sometimes you find yourself, I have to get a job, I got to go make money right now. And yeah, or my dad was a doctor, my grandpa was a doctor, so I got to be a doctor. You know what you are? A miserable dog. Man, I sat with a lot of those students sobbing miserable. I don't want to be here. Yeah. You know, I don't, listen, if you're my dentist and you're a dentist because your mommy wanted you to be a dentist, I don't want to be your patient. No. I think that's going to hurt. You know what I mean? Think about it guys. You suck at stuff that you do for other people rather than the way you were designed. Right. And so, you know, what is it that you've got natural giftings in and let's lean into that and let's polish it and let's hone the craft to fit, you know, by adding education to the mix. I believe in education, but randomly I'm going to be a lawyer because lawyers make money.

41:20Not all of them. Some of them are really pretty broke. And I've spent several years studying attorneys who got everything they wanted and they were pretty miserable because they thought what they wanted was this number or this love, this name on their building or whatever. And what are you looking for in your life? What's going to be the score of your life, right? So that's a lot for, that's a lot more than just what answering Luke's question, but it just kind of made me think about that deep baritone voice saying Americans spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do what their future career is going to be. Well, and here's where Luke finds himself. Man, if you all are young, was he say 18 and 19 years old getting married, what you all need right now is some money. And if one of you knows, I want to go into the medical field, I'm going to do this thing. Like you said, go sit down with some people who do that job for a living and ask how that world works. Not just get some salary advice from a second cousin. Yeah, here's what's weird. They might hire you over there as an assistant to the assistant tech and pay your tuition. It's exactly right.

42:32Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And healthcare is one of the biggest expenses in most family's budgets. And that is why I recommend that you check out Christian healthcare ministries. CHM isn't insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills. And they've been serving Christian since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month. And here's why that matters. If you are paying more than you need to for healthcare, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your next financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live. Y'all a lot of families find CHM gives them more room in the budget. That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50% credit towards their first month of membership.

43:37Go to CHministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's CHministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio. Anthony is in Canada. Hi Anthony, how are you? Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am just asking if I should stay at this one job that I don't really like to much and the job and the pay is not that great. Or if I should go back to kind of what I was doing beforehand. I was making better pay. But I have been working in that industry for like two years now. And ever so often I get into a job and they just be pretty much hiring for one

44:39they're slow and then they lay off like not even six months later. But I like that industry. What is the industry? Electrical. I was doing like electrical apprentice. OK. Well, I mean, the electric, there's not a, I mean, that company might get slow. But the call for electricians does not ebb and flow that much. Yeah. Yeah. Is that like you've bought yourself into a corner brother, either or? And I would love for you to consider 30 other options, 27 of which may be dumb. But just just a free yourself from it's not boring job. Not making much money but stable and risky job where I love the job and it pays well. But then they just might lay off at a moment's notice. Like yeah, those are two not great options. There's 300 other options, right? Yeah.

45:39Yeah. So let's get a job that pays more and is stable and you like. Yeah. That's the option I want. Yeah, I've definitely tried to. And just since I've been in that electrical industry for however long, it's primarily only electrical businesses that would hire me. This is why I took the other job. This job I'm currently doing is to get something else on my resume. But. OK. How old are you? I'm 21. I'm not that old yet. So when did you get all of these experience when you were 13? No, it's just been like the past like two or three years. Yeah, sort of. Yeah, I've been to like maybe like five different electrical businesses and they just have been pretty much all the same. Yeah, it wasn't that they saw someone with a limited resume. It's that they saw a 21 year old.

46:41Yeah. And this is what then he can do electricity and electrical work and so we'll hire him to the electrical work. And so it's all it is. It's not you're over complicating this and you're discounting the fact that you're being looked at as a youth. Yeah, yeah, sure. And that changes the way they pocket this or bucket this when an employer is looking at you in this situation. So I think we would start fresh and I'm going to send you a copy of Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. And I want you to pretend like you had never worked in your life and you were brand new. And you just said your dad just said, okay, you got to get out of the house, go and be free my son. And you said, okay, what am I going to do with my life? What do you want to be when you grow up? Huh? What do you want to be when you grow up, Anthony? You know, so I want you to answer that question kind of and start fresh as if you didn't have all this other stuff weighing you down because it's probably going to take you to one of those other 300 options that John's talking about. And then you discover what Henry Cloud causes your call to your desired future that might

47:42be completely different than anything we're talking about as a matter of fact, I think it should be. And then you say, okay, what must be true for me to be one of those kinds of people making that kind of money? Oh, wait a minute. I'm going to have to take a two year certification program. Oh, I'm going to have to go to trade school. Oh, I'm going to have to get a four year degree. Oh, I got to go to graduate work. I don't know. Whatever it is to be one of those, then go do those things to be one of those. If you get a 21, your chief focus is becoming the most excellent electrician possible. And there's going to be some grinding out that happens here. Like Dave said, it's, it's, it's stings. It's a bummer, whatever. But man, go become the best freaking electrician in your part of, in your province there. And you will, you will be hired. You know, if the people will want you on their squad. Exactly. Show up early, leave late work while you're there. Take weekend jobs. I have a family to take a bath and smile. And they'll never get rid of you. I mean, it's so simple and take Saturday and Sunday jobs at people's homes and changing

48:43plugs out and changing light fixtures out and putting in ceiling fans like become excellent at the craft and the adjacent craftsman. And dude, I'm telling you, the guy who spent a lot of money on electricians recently, bro, the demand is there. The first hand knowledge of welders electricians, you're, you're, you're a, you're a, you're a real wealth of knowledge to help me out with some home projects. And man, they are, the work they're doing is second to none. And they are very proud of it. Yeah, they're, they should be. They like it. So hang on. We'll pick up and send you a copy of that book. I'm finding the work you're wired to do. Good one day. But of whom it is the title. Sullivan is in Las Vegas. Hey, Sullivan, what's up? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I'm kind of in a pickle a little bit. So my rent went from like 1750 up to like 1950. You're worth debating whether to stay here, move out. We're trying to pay off debt as much as you can.

49:44We have like 20,000 or 20,000 knows in debt. So we're kind of just looking around, see if we is better for us to stay or to move into something like cheaper. So that's kind of what we're at right now. Cool. Was it just the two of you? It's me, my wife and my two daughters and my sister-in-law. Oh, not just the two of you. Yeah. You got to have a place that has a lot of bedrooms, huh? Yeah. So we're looking for like a three bedroom. But Vegas can be pretty expensive. What's the sister-in-law? What's the sister-in-law? How does this play into this? Well, she'll do think California. So she came out to Vegas to stay to live with us to go to college. And so my wife and her are both going to CSN out here in Las Vegas. No, she's paying rent? No, we're just trying to help her. She's 19. So she's not here. Broke. Yeah, are you in a position to help her? No, she's broke. Because you're getting ready to go rent a house. You wouldn't have rented because you have an sister-in-law tagging along.

50:44If you do, it's just you and the two kids, you might do something completely different. So that enters into this equation. So, Sullivan, rent is patience. Patience while you get out of debt and save up money to buy a house. The less you pay for your patience, the faster you get out of debt and save up money to buy a house. And so I'm going to take the cheapest possible rent I can because it's for a period of time. It's not my way of doing life. It's living like no one else so that later I can buy a house. Living like no one else so later I can live like no one else and give like no one else. So you get out of debt, save your emergency fund, save your down payment because you have a low rent, and then you talk about buying a house. And as you do that, you're credit will clean up because you don't have your debt. And you'll be more and more eligible for that while you're cleaning all this mess up. But you're going to have to lean in hard on all that. And you don't look at renting as a way of life then. We look at as a temporary stop. We're camping here till we get our more permanent home that we actually own.

51:44And Sharon and I often called it camping, although there was no literal camping involved. We're going to camp here for a little while. Now, there's a way of telling our brain this is temporary. Just for a season. Notifying my body, it's not going to be here long. It's going to be somewhere else. I'm just camping. We're going to camp out here a while. You're going to camp out here. We're going to camp out here. We're going to camp out here. We're going to camp out here. Running a business is hard enough. The tools you use to run it should make your job easier.

52:48Too many business owners spend more time fighting their software than selling their products. You didn't sign up to become a web developer. You signed up to build a business you're proud of. And Shopify gets that. With Shopify, you can design and launch a professional storefront fast without the headaches. Everything you need to start selling is built in. And when your customers are ready to buy, Shopify's purple shop pay button is one of the best converting checkouts in the world, which means fewer abandoned carts and more sales. And when questions come up because they always do, sidekick, Shopify's built in AI assistant is there to help you keep moving. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash Ramsey. That's Shopify.com slash Ramsey. Shopify.com slash Ramsey.

53:50csapati.c . . . Markis is in Minneapolis. Marcus, how are you? Thank you for having me on. So my fiance and I are getting married here in about three weeks and we are looking to build a home on five acres that my dad get to us. So for reference, we make about 150,000 gross per year. We have 110,000 in savings right now. Our only debt is 25,000 in student loans. But the house we want to build is around $400 to $450,000.

54:51But following the 25% rule, it probably looks like we'd only be able to afford something around a $300,000 range. So we're just looking for some guidance. Well, you've already got that. We told you 300,000, didn't we? Yeah, yeah. How old are you guys? We're both 28. If you put today, if you take 25 of that 150 you have and pay off your student loans and then you put a hundred grand down on a $400,000 house that brings you a $300,000, doesn't it? Yes, but I'm saying like that I think I'd have to get the loan amount down to closer to like 200,000 for that to work. You'll make it combined 150? Yes. Girls, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, there's a concept that you can do whatever you want to do.

55:56You're grown ups and you're allowed to do that, but you're calling and asking our advice in the guidelines that we have that we show people how not to be house poor so that they can have margin in their budget to invest and to be generous and to buy the next car for cash and to pay cash at Christmas and not have the house own them. And so, I mean, what if you told me that the house you wanted was 700,000, but you can afford 200. You know, you would just say you would use the words that no one uses in America. We can't afford it. And so, you've got to decide what you can afford. Now, there's a couple of other options. I mean, no one says that in the first year of marriage that you should build a home. As a matter of fact, I would probably tell you having built several homes is not good for your marriage to build a home in the first year of marriage.

56:57This is the opportunity to fight like you have never fought in your life. So, you know, and it's a brand new tender relationship marriage. And you know, it's a, you know, building a home is a lot. So a lot of details, a lot of decisions, and a lot of compromises between the two of you of what color something's going to be or what the thing is going to be. And I mean, sometimes one of the spouses just says they're not going to be involved and the other one does it. But that's not healthy either. You both are going to live there. You both should speak into what the house is. Okay. And you both should have a vote. And then by the time you do that, it's going to be strenuous, relationally. I wouldn't tell people not to build a house in the first year of marriage relationally. So having said all of that and given that little speech, might be okay to just go run an apartment on the other side of town. Is this land adjacent to your family? Yeah, we have a family farm. So we're just kind of getting a chunk of that.

57:58Be good for your wife to not be next door to her mother and law in the first year of marriage. Yeah, if I get that, Marcus, what's your take home every month? It kind of varies because my work's a little seasonal, but I pick up some part time work in the winter time. I don't know. It probably varies between 8 to 10 depending on make more in the summer. Okay. And is your wife work? Your fiancee? Yes. Getting ready to be gone. And that 150 is the total of the two of you. Yes. And the total take home pay from the two of you would be about what? Not 100% sure to be honest. Well, that would be a number you would need to have the discussion we're having. Yeah, because I feel like you're underselling a bit. I feel like you've like to get that 25% mark. I think you're close. I just did some napkin math here on the computer. I think you're closer than you think.

58:59Yeah, but I also agree with you. But it's also okay to wait a year. Also agree with Dave, relationally. Tell your dad, like, man, thank you for this five acres. We want to spend one year just figuring it out ourselves. I'm having a habit in the woods. And we're going to save a little bit more money so we can put more down on the chair. No one down on the chair. Any of you people. Now I'm serious, man. It'd be great for you. And then when you come over there, your marriage is more knit and more matured. And when you come over there next door to her mother-in-law, then she can handle it a little better. And I know your mother is great, but she doesn't know that yet. So, may take a while. And you're going to have family members to say, you're going to throw away money and we're giving you... They don't get a vote. Yeah, it's a good season to learn, like, who gets to speak into what you do next. I'm taking a year off as a family. Yeah. Pay off a student loan today, stack cash for a year, rent a cheap apartment. You'll build a different house, by the way, to... 100%. You'll know each other better after a year and you'll build a better house together. Spend a year, two or in houses, to see what you like.

1:00:01You like this kitchen, you like that bathroom? Yeah, clip, you know, build a Pinterest board with all the ideas you like and all that kind of stuff. And take pieces of a house. The last house we built, it was three different houses that we found pieces of and we bolted them together with an architect and made it look right. Well, and even Sharon explaining parts of the house in the way this new house, you all built... Like, it was a learned experience from another house. Exactly. But it was like, we built a different house because of that other. We had lived together in another situation. Exactly. Yeah, you'll build a different home. You'll be more happy with. Yeah, you'll do it. You'll be some... Yeah, wait a year. Wait a year and pay off student loan. That's my advice. Oh, the trick is, well, you do it. Now, that's where it comes down. I know we're against polymarket but we should have a polymarket like, would they... One of those... Oh, we're against betting. A gambling site. But if there was a...

1:01:01Are they going to do it or not? That'd be fun. Yeah, we could just take an informal poll with no money on it. There we go. Okay. Yeah. We don't have to do go fund me with it. Yeah. So... Will they do it or will they not? Will they do it? Thumbs up. Thumbs down. John and Madison and Wisconsin, hey, John, how are you? Hi. I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I have a question regarding starting a 401k. So I have about $50,000 and that 30,000 of those are student loans and about $20,000 on a car. And following the baby steps, I'm not supposed to start paying down my debt. But at 30 years old, I'm kind of just getting a little bit old. You're so old. You're going to die, bruh. I meant funds. You're going to die, poor. You're so old. John, you're a thousand years old. How did I find what my problem was? How are you getting around a walker? Have you got a wheelchair?

1:02:01No, not a wheelchair. Yeah, not a wheelchair. Yeah, not a wheelchair. You're not panicking at 30 years old. You need to get your butt out of debt and follow the baby steps. You're not on the 401k. Yeah, but I want you to get after it, man. We won't keep us dead around for four years like it's a pet. What did you say? What's 50 grand? 60 grand. What do you make? You might last combined and come as about one set of me five per year. So pay it off in a year, one year, dude. Okay. That's $5,000 a month in your budget. Your margin is about four to five thousand per month. Done. Well, cut something else out. I want it to be six thousand then. Be done in ten months. Okay. Just be done with it. Then this is not a question. You're a whole 31 years old when you start your 401k. But just trying to do six things that want just how people do nothing.

1:03:01And by the way, you'll have five thousand dollars a month to invest to do whatever you want to with. You want to get rid of this stupid debt. It changes your life, man. Attack it like it's a disease because it is. This show is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, it's Deloni. Listen, Better Health just released their annual state of stigma reports full of tons of data about why so many people avoid getting help for their mental and emotional health challenges.

1:04:06Here is one data point that really stood out to me more than three out of four Americans reported anxiety or depression symptoms in the previous two weeks. If that's you and you're carrying stress, anxiety or depression or symptoms of these things, just talking to someone can help you more than you realize. I recommend Better Health. Better Health is an online therapy platform that matches you with one of their 30,000 plus licensed therapists based on your goals and preferences. It's easy, it's super convenient, and you can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Visit BetterHealth.com slash Ramsey and get 10% off. That's BetterHealthHLP.com slash Ramsey. Our question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi Mist Private Student Lone Payments can leave you feeling like your financial goals are on hold.

1:05:48Since my husband and I have gotten married, we've justified certain purchases by saying, quote, it's an investment. For example, $2,000 worth of high quality business suits that would last for many years. As we started listening to the Ramsey show, we began to suspect that we aren't using the term, it's an investment in the right way. Is it ever appropriate to refer to a purchase as a quote unquote investment, even if we don't expect it to generate an income or profit? If not, how should we be thinking about purchases like these to decide if they're right for us? It's never an investment, it's wise consumption. Oh, good line. Or it's unwise consumption, one of the two. But I really think my guitars and my hunting gear and my gel, those are investments. Yeah, I mean, the thing is this, there's a couple things that when I first start teaching this stuff, people start throwing all these sayings at me. And they're all pretty good. Stuff like rich people ask how much, poor people ask how much down how much a month. Okay. Wise people buy an expensive item, rich people do that will last 20 years.

1:06:53And poor people unwise people buy a cheap item that feels good right now in the last 20 minutes. And so it's kind of like we're teaching the kid, they're buying a toy and you're going, that toy is going to break by the end of the week. Or you can buy this item, this toy and it's going to last, it's built. It's a, you know, it's a Tonka truck, right? It's going to last generationally. I got Tonka trucks at three generations now. So, you know, that kind of stuff. So, you know, what is a wise purchase? And so, you know, you buy a quality thing. So an example would be I would suggest you buy a two year old high quality automobile instead of a brand new Dodge Neon. Right. Which is going to be crap by Friday because it was crap when you bought it on Monday. And so, you know, I mean, that, but that's the difference in a wealthy mentality and a poor mentality. I just want something shiny and new, even if it's cheap in quality and won't last.

1:07:54In her case, she's talking about that. That's what Diana's talking about. That quality suit is going to last you. It's a timeless cut and material. It's not a high fashion item that's going to be a fat item. But that you can wear that forever. I wear on media and oftentimes on stage, I wear a black blazer. Okay. And I don't know the tie anymore. I got out of that business. But I've got three or four of those that I paid a lot of money for and I think they're approaching ten years old now. And they, you know, they're hanging in the closet here. They're hanging in the closet house and so on. You know, backstage at the event center. So if I need one, I got the exact same cut. Custom made high quality item. And so it travels well because it's not going to water up. And, you know, it's a good, but that's not an investment because I can't turn around and sell it at a profit. And that's the difference in investment. Yes.

1:08:54And the investment is going to pay you money out and or go up in value and you can resell it and clothing definitely doesn't qualify. Just ask the people at the consignment sale. And so yeah, that, but you can call it a wise consumption. And it's a good, it's an interesting question. And what I do love about her question is is that words do matter. Yes. They give your brain signals because if you call it an investment rather than wise consumption, it gives you permission to double down. Well, and that's where the I get called out because I've used the phrase, oh, this is really an investment. Yeah. Over and over my life. And it's just been a bad justification for I really want this thing. And I want to get the nicest version of this thing. Yeah. And so if I call it investment for whatever reason, it makes it okay. Instead of having the courage to say, you know what? I just want this. And I've saved up for it. And me wanting this is enough. Yeah. And I don't need all this other baggage to it to justify for myself. Exactly. I want a nice thing. I think I quit using one of the times I learned and not used this as I was 26 years old.

1:09:57I was making a lot of money in the real estate business. And before I went broke. And I bought a Jaguar. Which I grew up in a neighborhood where they couldn't spell Jaguar. So much less even knew what one was. So it was a very impressive to me that I had a Jaguar. I thought it was, you know, B8, right? So I rolled up at my grandpa's house and my grandpa Ramsey was a Scotsman. He was a classic grandpa. I mean, pull the crooked nails out of the board, straighten them out and put them in a coffee can. I think that's it. You know this grandpa, right? He never threw away anything. Everything was a child of the Great Depression. Worked 38 years for Alcoa aluminum. I saved every dollar I ever had. Never invested any of it. Just saved it. And just stacked cash. And he comes out. He was a sweet man. And he came out and I'm there in my little double-breasted suit. And I think I'm a really cool 26-year-old. And he said, what is that? I said, it's a Jaguar, Grandpa. He said, wow, it's a fine looking automobile. He said, what did that cost? And I think at the time it was like 35,000 bucks or something.

1:10:59Which today would be 150,000 bucks, right? And I said 35,000 dollars. He goes, oh my God, I'm never spent that all a car. He said, that is a fine car. I said, well Grandpa, it's a great car. It's a great investment. And he said, really? It's amazing. He said, so in 10 years, will that car be worth? And I said, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he said, well honey, my investments go up. But that's the same thing, right? It says same mentality. Now that car, if I had paid cash for it and wasn't leveraged to my eyeballs, I was getting ready to go broken real estate business trying to appear to be something I'm not. Which is the case in that situation. Totally shallow, as I could be, right? I mean classic, classic, putting on the pose. But if I had paid cash for the car and I had the wealth, I still should not have used the phrase, it's an investment. Right. It's consumption that I can afford.

1:11:59And then I want to. That's why it's consumption and I like it. And that's an okay answer. At least then I wasn't trying to defend it as if it was going up and value, which is what he called me on. But that's the thing. If it's not going up and value and you can't turn around and resell it, or you don't propose it's going to go up and value, then you're not, it's not an investment. So we bought a boat and it's an investment in our family. No, it's consumption for your family. It's not an investment. Boats do not go up and value. None of them. Two best days of your life. The day you buy a boat, the day you sell it, right? That's the whole saying. Now, I don't know that because I've never sold my boat. No, I've, I've sold it. We've got a better one. But yeah. So I'm still a boat guy. I'm not against boats. But the point being don't, well, we're investing in our children by taking them to Disney. No, you're consuming an experience. And your value is that you want to spend money on experiences rather than other things.

1:13:00Okay, that's fine. Just own it. Quit acting like it's something it's not. Right. And that's what she's calling out wisely here. Yeah. I like that. That's a good discussion. Words matter. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So, you know, make sure your heart's aligned on this. Okay. We're consuming this money. We can afford it. It's a wise consumption. It's a reasonable purchase. Give an hour situation. But we're not going to call it something. It's not, which is an investment. Oh, that's so good. I'll even say this. The baggage that I brought to it. Man, it took me a while to unpack this. I'll probably unpack this the rest of my life. Is that underlying. I'm not worth that. Or guys like me don't play guitars like that. I haven't earned that. I'll never like that's people who buy that kind of thing. You're acting like it's going to go up in value because that makes it okay. Because you're not worth. You're not worth doing it for you. That's it. And for me, taking. I'm taking ownership of. I want this. My wife and I have agreed on it.

1:14:01And it's okay if I get it. It's okay. And. And it checks. It's a part of our life rhythm, right? That's good. I like that. But that's that was for me getting over like I'm not worth to $2,000 suit. Like I'm not that guy. I'll never be that guy. But if it's an investment, I can do that. Right. Yeah. Hey, I want to keep you from buying stuff to impress all the people. That's that to me is the most important thing. Hey, I want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in Titanic or something.

1:15:03I mean responsible love. The kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid. Zander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget. In many cases, there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Zander for years long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 to find the coverage that fits your family.

1:16:15One of the biggest things that a mistake people make is thinking they can skip having a will because they're too young for a will or too healthy for a will or they don't own anything. Well guess what? You don't get to pick when you die. Sadly sometimes that happens to young and healthy people. A will helps protect your family. It gives clear instructions, keeps your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted while they're going through a difficult time. If you're ready to create a will, go to momabarelegal.com. If you're not sure where to start, text quiz to 33-789 and we'll help you figure out which option, whether an attorney or momabare is your best option. Jennifer is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Jennifer, how are you? Hey, I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

1:17:17Well, I was want to know if I should go back to school. Well, if I should go to school. I've never been to college and the job that I've been in. Other I've risen through the ranks position wise. I can't go any further without a four year degree. What do you do? I work in the cafeteria. I'm a trainer for them. And so I've been a worker. I've been a manager assistant manager, a manager. What is it that you can't do because you don't have a four year degree? Is it a corporate policy? It is. And yeah, it is definitely required. I've tried every avenue I can think of. And I can't be in a supervisory role.

1:18:17And or how long have you worked there? I've worked there for almost 20 years. And so if you get a four year degree in what nutrition or what? Honestly, it could probably be in anything. Just to check the corporate box. And then your income today is what? 65. 65,000 years is what you make? Yeah. How old are you? 50. And what would you make four years from now if you got a degree in any old thing? Well, a person of my work experience other than college and caliber, they make around 75 to 85. Doing the exact same job? Doing not what I do, but doing what I would want to be able to do.

1:19:22Which is what? I'd be a supervisor or maybe a... Over the cafeteria? A training specialist. Well, it would be over several cafeterias, like 18. And my thought process is that even if it takes me five or six years, if I, being 50, that would still give me additional five, six years to... Okay. What I do like is the idea of improving yourself, putting some tools in your bell for you to be worth more and earn more. I like that. I don't like that you're doing it for an artificial ceiling that shouldn't be there. And so that makes me want to quit and go work for someone else and... My lesson said something similar. Yeah, I mean, because this is stupid that you have to have at a four-year degree and left-handed puppetry so you can go run 18 cafeterias and you know how to run a cafeteria off the back of your hand without thinking about it.

1:20:27And these morons in corporate America have decided that a four-year degree somehow makes you a genius. Somebody with a four-year degree came up with this policy. That's how much of a genius they are. So I don't like that part of the discussion at all, but I love the idea of continuing personal growth. Continued personal growth is the best investment human beings can make. Going to events, going to seminars, reading books, studying, getting another certification, another degree. A constant state of learning and a culture where the rate of change is so rapid that it's blinding is necessary to win and to grow and to be better. And so I like all of that. And so I would tell you to go to school and study something. I don't mind that a bit. I also think you probably need to look at working somewhere else. John, where are you thinking? Yeah, I'm thinking one at what a costly corporate mistake to not put somebody of your experience, caliber, leadership ability into the next right position that will improve everything for the company.

1:21:44They're bottom line, they're employee retention, they're insider knowledge, all of it, simply for this one box. It's just corporations deciding we're going to outsource, we're going to use a metric to outsource value and we're going to use a metric called degree or not degree as a hard stop. We have some policies around Ramsey that we say that we start the policy with almost never. Okay, we almost never hire relatives of current team members because if you're fire one, you lose the other one usually. So we just almost never do it, but we have occasionally. When common sense super, when common sense super imposed and stepped on top of a policy, then we put the policy down. And I've worked in university settings, which are the epicenter of this, right? You've got to have a degree to breathe at a university campus and I get it. I've had two different universities and two different employees that I would put as some of the best employees I've ever worked with had no degree, but they were so skilled.

1:22:48And I gave them a path to eventually if they wanted to, but I went and fought on their behalf. So I'm frustrated there on the other side of it. I grew up in a home where in Dave's what Dave said is really wise. So in what he said is very specific. My mom took her first community college class at the age of 41. And it was simply I want to get some training and some education so that I can make some more money. And she found a whole new world. And so she graduated with her PhD at 63 and got tenured as 57, got tenured as a professor at 63. Not even on her radar, not even on her planet. And here is this woman from Texas that spent in her mid 70s was teaching over at Oxford overseas. It gave her a whole new world, but the pursuit in Dave was right here was she wanted to grow herself. And she wanted to keep learning and keep getting better than by artificial corporate stupid polish. That's it. That's right. Initially I want to get some training so I can get a job at a community college.

1:23:50And that led to another thing, led to another thing, but it was all based on I want to continue to grow. And I want to get some time in corporations because she kept learning new things. And so if you do take this track, which I like Dave's support, make sure you study something that you're super interested in. Make sure you get there, get through it quickly too. And you find the least expensive option for you. And you pay cash for it. And if this job goes away, you've got a tool set that your horizons, your toolkit, everything's been expanded so that you can go do other things besides just this one thing. Because they set you up for this. And by the way, your tool set may tell you to leave. That's exactly right. You might find out, oh my gosh, I have the skill set to go do the same thing at a warehouse instead of a cafeteria. Then I'm going to work for stupid people. And I can make quarter million dollars do that, right? Because you've got such amazing experience. You've got experience working with parents, working with administrators, working with legislatures, working with vendors. You've got so much experience that you may not even realize how marketable you are.

1:24:50That's great. But Dave, I just get frustrated by those hard stops. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I mean, I can understand the concept. But I think an almost never in front of it. And then she's the exception. Would be much less corporate stupidity. It's just this side corporate idea of you just box yourself into a corner. Unnecessarily, right? Well, I mean, and this is why small businesses employ 57% of Americans. Because small businesses use common sense. I need a person who can do this job. Yeah. If you work for a family business, they actually, most of the time, have some brains. You know, at least look at something through a reasonable lens. You might not agree with it, but they at least are, you know, it's not a blind. And is the reasonable lens, can you do this job well? Yeah. With excellence? You know, I don't know what anyone's degree is in this place except yours. Because you talk about them all the time. Ha ha ha. If you're shopping online and these days, everybody does, data brokers are out there right now,

1:26:11buying and selling your personal information. Your phone number, your home address, your email, without your knowledge or consent. And that puts you at risk for spam calls, scam texts, and fraud. Combined with AI, those scams are getting more sophisticated every day. And trying to get it under control yourself is basically impossible unless you have delete me. Delete me goes to hundreds of these creepy data broker sites, find your info and removes it, and you never have to lift a finger. Plus, they keep monitoring for it and removing it if and when it pops up again. You don't have to remove your own info every time it pops up like some unwinnable game of whack-a-mole. I personally use and love delete me and my scam texts and spammy calls have gone way down. Trust to leave me to smack down data brokers and protect your personal info so the game of whack-a-mole can finally stop. Go to joindeleteme.com slash ramsy and you'll get 20% off an annual plan. That's join j-o-i-n deleteme.com slash ramsy or click the link in the description.

1:27:11Welcome back to the ramsy show in the fair wins credit union studio. Manny is in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Manny, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I got a rental property that's worth 600,000. Well, it's estimated 25, 75, and 600. I owe $340 on it and I have 30,000 in personal debt and 20,000 in business debt. I'm coming up on a bonus next year that I should be able to wipe out my money. That I should be able to wipe out all the debt. I'm trying to do this, you know, but I'm filling a little pressure and I'm not sure if I should sell that rental to pay off the debt.

1:28:14What do you already do? First kind of I was holding out. What do you owe on your home? My home, my O 200. Just under $199. Okay, cool. So you have a business debt, but you get a bonus. Sounds like you're an employee. How do you have that? I have a business I purchased last year and I also have a full-time job. So your business that you bought has got the $30,000 and it's a side hustle. I have 30,000 in personal debt and then I have 20,000 in business debt. Okay, so what do you have a business debt? What do you owe them? Business debt on. Credit card. Okay, it's not business debt, it's personal. You allocated it in your mind to business, but the bank doesn't know its business, it's in your name.

1:29:14Yeah, so you have $20,000 in credit card debt because you're just a credit card to buy a business. Okay, all right. And then $30,000 worth of other personal debt in addition to that. So there's no such thing as business debt on something like this because banks don't loan money to businesses your size. They loan money to people that do things like businesses your size, which is fine. Okay, so anyway, minor detail. Now, so $250,000 gets you out of debt 100%. And you make what a year again? I make 60 a year, but then I get paid a bonus based on the revenue that the business that I work for does another 50. It's based on the revenue. So I can wish your the bonus is projected to be a hundred thousand and I get paid it first quarter of the year and third quarter. Wow. And so next year I would get paid about 50,000 in January and then the other 50,000 in July.

1:30:17Okay. All right. So the premise that we're using to answer your question overall, you've asked a very nuanced tactical question. But the principle is that what we have found in 30 years of 35 years of doing this is and proven it, by the way, is the fastest method to build wealth is to not have debt. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and when you give it to a stupid bank, it keeps you from building wealth. And so what I'm always going to lead you towards is being debt free as soon as possible. The $50,000 in miscellaneous debt, the $200,000 mortgage and the rental. And so I love rental properties and you're making money and you're making good money and you're making it in kind of a weird way, which is fun because it makes you live on the 60 and then gives you a hundred to do something else with it sounds like, are you married? Yes. What does she make? Well, she works in the business.

1:31:19Okay. What's the business make a year? Well, we just bought it. So this is our second year. Well, you didn't pay money for a business that doesn't make money. Did you? Well, you did. Yes. We did. It does make money, but we've just invested it back into the business. Okay. So what is the profit? What's the profit on the business a year? Last year the business made it was just under 60,000. Okay. Did you pay taxes on? Yes. Okay. And so good. What'd you buy it for? 200,000. Okay. But you paid cash for all of it, but 20.

1:32:21No. So I'm sorry. I messed up on that. So I have it seller finance. Oh, so there's more debt. Okay. How much do you owe the seller? Right now it's about 60,000 that's left. Okay. All right. Yes. Sell the rental property and pay off the 60,000 and pay off the 50,000. And pay off your home mortgage. And then you're 100% debt free and you're making $250,000 a year pretty soon. And you're cash, you're able to cash and invest and invest and invest and buy another rental property later on for cash if you want. But I'm going to use this rental property to clean up this mess right now. Okay. Because here think about this for a minute. How would you, what business decisions would you make that are different? And how would you walk and talk inside your office with your employer if you had no mortgage, no credit card, no debt, no seller financing, zero debt in your life?

1:33:26Can you breathe that level of peace into your lungs? Oh, it's so really good. Yeah. That's worth trying the rental property for. Okay. So you wouldn't wait and because I could pay off. I know. I heard you can't pay at all. You just kept stacking debt in the conversation for a minute. Your bonus was going to handle it. But then after we finish the conversation, your bonus doesn't even come close anymore. How much do you cash flow in this rental property? 1100. Yeah. So put it this way. The 11, your paying more than $1100 in payments. Yes. And this 100,000, you're going to clear all your debts off. And if you get this $100,000 bonus and it all comes through as you think it's going to. Just that's eight years, what nine years of rental of cash flow in this property. Yeah. Yeah. You just accelerated that. Exactly. Right. So pocket that. Be happy. Put that 100 grand towards the life you and your wife want to live in investments and what.

1:34:26I mean, you'll have no payments. You'll do whatever you want with the $100,000. Yeah. Go become a multi millionaire now with no debt payments and a great income and a good, a good business and a good job. So wait, you can, you can do this two ways emotionally. You can think your quote unquote losing this rental house or you can think, think, God, I have this thing that can clear up all of these goofy decisions I've made up until now and let me do a hard reset. And we've learned our lesson. We're never going to borrow money again. We're going to have a hundred grand cash in the bank on top of what we already, what might my salary. We were able to just do a control delete. That's an amazing place to be. Be really grateful that you're in this position. Yeah. Go sell that house. It's wonderful. Yeah. Exactly what I would do. And if you want to own real estate, just start stacking some of your bonuses in just, you know, in high yield savings and look over there and go, oh, there's 400,000 over there. Let's go buy a rental house. If you want to do that, that's okay. But that's three years out.

1:36:04Hey guys, George Campbell here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me? Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar is simple. It's clear and it helps track where your money is actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons to do's and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. You Are you sick and tired of working so hard and having nothing to show for it?

1:37:06Well, that's kind of normal, but normal is broke. You don't want to be normal. You do not have to live that way. Our every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized, rambsy plan to beat that bill wealth follow the baby steps. In just 15 minutes, when you first start doing a budget, this always happens. You're going to find thousands of dollars. You're going to feel like you got to raise. Hidden margin. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free. You can go to the App Store or Google Play. Kayla is in Des Moines. Hi, Kayla. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm calling because I was in baby steps seven. My husband and I went. We were 27 years old. We had a paid off mortgage, no debt. In the last 10 years, we have just backslid. I really don't have a good excuse for it.

1:38:07I was just keeping up with the Joneses. Currently, we're living in a house where our monthly income is where our mortgage is about 33% of our monthly income. We just feel so overwhelmed at the every month at the end of the month. I was just wondering if you think I should sell my house and downsize to something cheaper? I hear the pain of regret in your voice. It feels dirty, doesn't it? Yes. It really just feels like we had it all figured out and now we're just normal. You just got lazy. You got relaxed and then went back to being like everybody else. That's so sorry. That's horrible feeling. I'm 37. In the last three years, we have bought and sold three separate houses.

1:39:08That's really where my apprehension comes in from selling my house. Why? Just lifestyle creeps just wanting to make room for everyone. You moved up every time? Yes. Tell me if I'm wrong. There is an unsettledness in your marriage. Financially, definitely. Maybe it's just financially. There's something that y'all are chasing that over here, we're going to finally feel a certain way. Then we need to go over here. This will make us whole and this will bring us... There's something that a disconnection between you and your spouse that is... Y'all are chasing with these other things. They're looking for love and all the wrong places. Am I off my rocker? I have a pretty happy marriage.

1:40:08I do feel like we're chasing something and it's more just trying to keep up with the job. I'll be happy when. Well, and you can have a happy marriage. It's not a united one. You can have a... Discontented. Yeah, one or both of you can be peacekeepers. Y'all can find yourself sitting six inches away from each other on the couch, but you'll have six thousand miles from each other. Y'all are in different planets. Y'all can say, no, we're happy. We don't yell, we don't scream, we like each other. But that's different than being. And building this thing has costs and it has wins associated with it. But all it to say is... Yeah, all it to be... It just sounds like... I agree. It sounds like there's... Like discontentment has been driving this. And so, and contentment is a spiritual decision. Godliness with contentment is great gain to be able to just sit and breathe

1:41:10and call where I am, okay. And we're not going to die from where we're going to work to be better. We're going to be ambitious, but we can also be content. And we're being ambitious for a thing. Yeah, the difference is that we're not chasing happiness in a wrong location. Like it'll all be okay when. I'll be happy if I got this. I'll be happy if I did that. I'll be happy if I had a better car. I'll be happy if the kids were in that school district. I'll be happy if we had a white kitchen, you know, or whatever, which might have been set at my house a few years ago. But yeah. And what you found at every new house you all bought, you all went with you. Right. And so, I want you to get under the hood on this, you and your husband sit down and start talking about it. Okay, what were we chasing that caused us to make these decisions? And I don't want to make a new decision using that same chase. That's exactly right. We make a new decision based on math and does it take us towards our new goal? Because yes, because you've run towards a different house, a quote unquote,

1:42:13upgrade in house for the last three years, you're still going to be running. You might be running a different direction, but you're still just running from something. Instead of saying, hey, I love that. The diagnosis of our problem. If we just say, what have we been chasing? And who do we want to be? How do we want to wherever we live? A one bedroom apartment or a really fancy house? How do I want this house to feel? And man, begin to reverse engineer the action steps we're going to take so that we can get to this warmth and joy and laughter. What do we want our life to feel like? And really heartfelt, authentic question. It's a great question. I love it. I appreciate you being vulnerable about it and letting us jump on this problem with you. This is what drives a lot of stuff. I mean, sometimes I'm asked, you know, what's the most powerful financial principle? Contentment. Is when you're content, you don't go into debt to buy something you can't afford. When you're content, you can live on less than you make. When you're content, you can be generous.

1:43:13When you're content, you can invest and save because you don't have to consume all of it. Who was Worbuffet's right, him, man? Charlie. Yeah. Yeah. Man, he has some great one-liners about like my watch costs 30 bucks and it tells the same time your watch says. Right? Like just some, if you can learn to settle in here and just drop your shoulders, man, you kind of, you become so free, you can do whatever you want because you're not subject to the whims of other people's approval. It's strange though. I mean, and part of contentment is, I don't care what anybody thinks. Yeah. Which we always find that statement among millionaires. I became, I got out of debt and I became wealthy when I quit caring what others think. Why do you drive a Toyota and you're worth $4 million? I don't care. Why do you, I'm not taking a poll. Yeah. Why do you wear those shoes? Stoplight. I know people I don't even know. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, Dave, I think people will hear this as, for lack of in our terms, oppressive speech. This is the most empowering thing you could tell somebody is, unhook yourself from all of these phantom judgments that you think are being cast your way.

1:44:19And getting the driver's seat of your own life become the chief agent in where you and your spouse want to go. Man, you become, you can just do anything. Yeah. And it's pretty extraordinary. We had a relative when we got hardcore after the bankruptcy, we got hardcore. And we still are. We never quit. Yeah. We don't borrow money. For anything. Ever. And we don't care what you think. Period. Now, I'll try to convince you for your sake if you're asking me a question. That's what I do here on the air. But in terms of, do I need your approval to become as wealthy as we have become by not borrowing money? No, I don't need your approval. Not at all. I'm not taking a poll. And then we had a relative that's like, I'm worried about you all. I think I've been creptcy damaged you. I think you need counseling. And I'm like, for sure. But not for the reasons you think. And so we took her on a cruise a few years later.

1:45:21Well, just to say thanks for her advice. There was full of crap. But yeah. I think you need counseling. Yeah, I think you've joined a cult. Is that church you're going to a cult? The church lady, right? Yeah. Thank you, Dana Carvey. But if you find yourself running, and you're running from thing to thing, that's so good, Kayla. Thank you. You got to stop on this. Yeah, the most helpful thing you can do sometimes is just stop running. Why? Stop running. What, why am I in this race? They call it the rat race. Yeah, the, man, I was telling you off air. They don't call it the third, right? They call it rats. A powerful book by Ty Wynn, he's a professor in the University of Utah, called The Score. But he asked this really important question in the book. Is this the game I want to be playing? That's it. And, man, that question is, I asked myself that, take my marbles and go home. Thank you. Somebody cuts me off in traffic and I feel that, is this the game I want to play? No.

1:46:21Right? To, like, all of it. Is this the hill you really want to die? No, man. That's so good. I want to join my house. That's what I want. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent. I'm great.

1:47:28Thanks for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up? Well, I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a real estate agent. What's up? Well, I'm trying to convince my wife that for the next couple of years, I'm hoping to retire in the next four or five years, to invest in the markets instead of the memories. I know it sounds kind of odd. She would rather spend the money, and I want to say now, but rather spend it on the kids and grandkids making memories than leaving a legacy. well you should do both. Um, I'm trying to get convinced of that. Um, our, our, this is a really angry discussion. Our discussion is mostly centered on she likes to take our entire family on

1:48:31cruises. Mm hmm. And, um, what's your network? Um, probably about one point two or three. Okay. And what's your household income? Uh, about a hundred and ninety. And what does she spend on a cruise when she takes the whole family? About thirty thirty five. Okay. That doesn't keep you from investing. It, you know, I guess in a way it does. It definitely, we max out our 401. We keep you from investing. Well, I'd like to put more in because I would, I would love to leave my kids and grandkids. Something, I don't want to see substantial because I know that we don't have a million here. Yeah. What's your parents leave you? Um, thank God I have both my parents still. Okay. What will they leave you? Ten million dollars? No. Okay. No. And you're going to be okay. Your kids are going to be okay. So I should just let her have her enjoyment.

1:49:34No, I think you ought to both be, you ought to be investing and you ought to let her have her enjoyment and you have the money to do both, sir. Okay. Have you ever been successful in convincing? No. Okay. Because, because even the way you ask that question, it, it suggests you all are sitting on opposite side of the table. You versus your wife. And it's not an argument. It's mostly, I really want to retire. I've owned a restaurant for almost 40 years now. My feet, legs and hips and back are shot. Okay. And when I finally do retire, that 190,000 is not going to be coming in. Okay. So, agreed. But hold on. I had to watch me work until I'm about 65, 66, 67 and I don't want that. Have you had that conversation? I'm in pain. Yes. I want to enjoy the rest of my life with, with you, with the grandkids.

1:50:35And we don't have enough save to do that right now. Well, you guys are old enough to remember 2008. And a small part of this, maybe a major part, is that I had a lot of few risks when I was young and put our business almost into almost a million dollars in debt to the state, the feds, providers, insurance, etc., etc., etc. So, she has this idea that money is fleeting and to enjoy it while you have it. And since 2008, we paid off her house, we paid off our mortgage. We have about a half a million in our 401. So, we climbed out of that home, by the way, the Ramsey thing, before we knew there was Ramsey. Yeah, good for you. Well done. We sold everything. We lived on. So, how old today did you say? 58. Okay. All right. So, I think you sit down and start having some very granular conversations and say,

1:51:37okay, my back hurts, my hips hurt. I'm not doing this till I'm 67. I can't. And so, what's going to happen is, is that if we, to the extent we spend all of the investment money, we're going to end up in a much reduced lifestyle from the time I retire on. And so, this, um, so we can do some things. We can do the occasional cruise for everybody. We can still do a $30,000 thing. That's not undoable. But we can't do three of them, because the other two things that are that size I need to go and invest so that we're doing both things well. And I need you to join me emotionally in doing both of these things, having fun with the money and investing it. Instead of me feeling like I'm dragging you, kicking and screaming, and you're like a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit that you want. Sugary cereal right now. And I don't, you know, so I want us to be joined.

1:52:38And the healing from 2008 from the mistakes is in our rearview mirror. And we're joined together. And we're walking into a cool new future. That's a two worth three million dollar net worth in our early 60s. And while we're doing that, we're going to do some fun things too. But I'm nervous about that. So my tendency is to run honey over onto the saving only side. And your tendency is to run over to the other side. Both are actually correct. And we need to be doing both. But we need to be unified in doing both. And man, could I set a better end? The thing I'll add is Mark, you need a finish line. Because you're going to chase the word substantial. You're going to chase the word legacy. And if you don't give yourself a, I want every grand kid to get $25,000. I want my four kids to each get, if you don't give yourself sums, in that, that by the way, that finish line can move. Right? Let's say you sell your restaurant and you get eight times what you thought that can move. But man, you're going to be chasing a never,

1:53:39an ever moving finish line called substantial and called legacy. If you don't put some concrete ideas around that. If you're, if your grandkids and kids have got no sense, it doesn't matter if you leave them on May, or 10 May, and it'll be gone in four months. So it's, and you probably don't think any less of your parents. Either. Yeah, you don't think because you're going to leave you a tournament. Yeah. And so, and I don't, you know, so I, you know, leaving, changing your family tree is a good goal. It's a good goal. Unless it drives you to do, like, like, you're incomplete if you don't do it somehow. There you go. And so that's what we want to avoid. Brian is with us. Brian is in Joplin, Missouri. Hey, Brian, what's up? Yes, sir. I'm a heavier equipment mechanic. And I was, I was needing help on the decision around my business full time or to keep working for my parent employer. Mom, what's your business? I'm a mobile heavy equipment mechanic.

1:54:41How much are you making doing that? About four thousand a month. That's just in the evenings after five thirty to about ten or eleven o'clock at night in the long weekends. Good for you. And what do you make on your day job? About fifty five hundred a week. Thirty five an hour doing it. Sixty hours a week. And so you're making twenty thousand dollars a month at your day job? No, sir. Just fifty five hundred dollars monthly. Monthly not weekly. You said weekly. Okay. And so you got one that's doing fifty five hundred a month and one that's doing four thousand a month, right? Yes, sir. And I get it's hard to juggle with two at the moment. Can you cut your hours back on your heavy equipment day job? That's what I currently do. The forty hours a week and I'm still hard to balance the one. I hear you. Can you cut it? Can you cut it more? I can see. I can ask them and see how I would ask my employer to let me have Fridays off.

1:55:42Yes, that's what I'm currently doing now. And I've got established customers and I'm things I know I could double it if I'd In the wet movement. But we hope you can double it because you're getting ready to cut your pay in half when you quit. Yes, sir. So what I like to do in these situations, I want you to do this, okay? But I want to always say I want to pull the boat really close to the dock. So I'm not taking a leap of faith. And right now you're taking a leap of faith. Like you're going to cut $5,500 if you quit today out of your a month and you got to make that up and you're only making four now. And if you don't make it up, then you're going to you're going to feel that water when you hit it. So I'd like to say we're making six or seven on the business. And we've cut the hours down on the day job. That gets the boat closer to the dock and then you just step into the boat. You don't have to jump and hope you hit it.

1:56:43And so that's what I want to do. I want to get your I know you're tired and you're a hard work and dude and I love what you're doing. I want you to go do this. I want you to go in business for yourself. I'm going to send you a copy of building a business you love our book and I want you to read it. Our big investing essentials event is next Tuesday and Wednesday. Don't miss your chance to be there. Investing isn't difficult but it's not something you can learn in a 60 second TikTok video. So at this two-night virtual event, George Campbell and I will walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning.

1:57:45We'll simplify everything from maximizing your 401k to reducing taxes and setting up wills and real estate and much more. Join us next week on September 1st and 2nd. Tickets start at $199. Get yours now at RamseySolutions.com, Slice Events or by clicking the link in the show notes. Our scripture of the day 1 Corinthians 10, 13, no temptation is overtaken you except what is common to mankind and God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. Ronald Reagan said, status quo you know is Latin for the mess we're in.

1:58:45It's fantastic. That's great. Oliver's in Connecticut. Hey Oliver, what's up in your world? Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. I love your show. Well thank you sir. Yes, my question, I'm 46, single, no kids, no debt. I haven't had any kind of full time working about a year and a half. I do have some pretty good savings and I'd like to know your opinion if you think I may be able to retire at this point. Today? Uh yeah, I mean yes, yes, not have to work again. What are you going to do the rest of your life? Well, you know, it's funny. I actually interviewed for a part-time minimum wage job today because it has been kind of boring. I tried to get some jobs that haven't had luck because they say you don't have the education or grad school experience.

1:59:45So what are you going to do the rest of your life? Oliver? I would like to have a life and a child and so that's part of the question is how is not working? Well, yeah, I mean it's maybe a possibility. Again, I'm not, I can tell you my financials and maybe you can tell me your opinion. My opinion is you shouldn't quite work at 46 regardless of your financials. You should be doing something for the good of mankind and yourself. You don't have to work on slave job. You don't have to work 40 hours or 80 hours a week or something, but you have to be doing something. Okay, so what is your net worth? What do you have saved? Um, I have 2.7 million in a brokerage. One million of that's in a Roth. Those are like you suggest mutual funds and ETFs that average about 10 to 11 percent. I have a three family house. I own which cash flowed about 300 a month.

2:00:4730,000 in HSA 40,000 high yield savings accounts and um, where did you get all that? I ran a tennis business for about 15 years and sold it. Now I was leasing space out of an indoor tennis club and they sold the club. I was trying to buy the club and the owner was going to sell it to me and then the last minute he said he sold it to a golf buddy. The golf buddy came in and he said I have new plans for the place and you're not part of them. Okay, so you got you got you lost your lease and you just closed to the business but the money came from making a lot of money in the tennis business. Yeah, it was I set it up as an S corp. I had 1099 workers. But I mean you made a profit a lot of money and you stacked it. That's where the money came from. That's what I'm proud to ascertain. I live a simple life. Okay, so what does it take you to live on here if you wanted to not work anymore?

2:01:49What do you need to live on? Well right now it's about 85,000 a year but I went and I would like to buy a house. Yeah, well you're non-Roth investments should be generating more than 85,000 years. And so yeah, you could quit today but aside like I said earlier, aside from the finances, I don't think you need to quit today and you're a proven entrepreneur. You ran a very lucrative business. You developed a business model. Obviously I love for tennis that you parlayed into whatever sources of revenue there and stacked $3 million from way to go. And you're only 46. Do you not remember how alive you felt when you were fighting those battles growing that business?

2:02:50It felt it did feel good and I haven't been able to come up with any other entrepreneurial ideas and before that business part of working so hard was I had eight or nine jobs that were just terrible. Most of them being commissioned only to offer dollar sales. Yeah, okay, so don't do that. You don't have to. You got 85,000 coming off that brokerage account. So we're not stressed about where we're going to go or what we're going to do. But if you want a wife and kid, I think you're a lot more attractive if you're actually out there doing something. And most women don't want to marry a couch potato even if they're independently wealthy. Yeah, and the research is pretty clear that if you, when you quit to do nothing, your body gets the message and it will start to send the signals we're done here. Our work is done here and you'll see your health fall off a cliff, your emotional mental health will fall off a cliff, your body just starts shutting it down. So, so I would go and do, you know, if Ramsey closed today, I'm 66, not 46.

2:03:56I would go and open a business because it's fun because I enjoy, I enjoy business, I enjoy running a business, I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy the building of something that's profitable that the marketplace likes and gives you money for. I'll say this happy customer. You are the most singularly focused business person I've ever been around who's got an obsession with helping the first, the, the, the frontline customer, right? Like, I know you're like building a business, but I think you like helping people. Yeah, but that's a good business does that. It's exactly right. If you're, if you're running car repair, you better like helping people. That's exactly right. Yeah, if you're, you know, if you're in the, if you're a doctor or a medical doctor, you should like helping people. I feel better. Yeah, so Oliver, like, what about your, did you like the tennis business? Because we open a tennis business or did you like the teaching part or do you like to sing the light bulb? Come on and young kids and teenagers and taking pretty good athletes and making them helping them become excellent. Like, what about that? Did you love, do you could do that anywhere? Yeah, exactly. All over the place. But fine.

2:04:57It's going and interviewing for a job and them saying you don't have a degree after you made three million dollars is kind of funny. Yeah, it's absurd. The guy telling you that's making, used to be your employee. Yeah, he used to hire you to give, teach his kid how to play tennis, right? Yeah. And so no, that, that's not, that does not steal my hope and make me want to quit. Quite to the contrary, it makes, it gives me a real reason to go start a business. It kick his butt. All right. Joey's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Joey, what's up? Hey, so I am a recovering gambling addict today's 31 days from not gambling. Good for you. Congratulations, dude. Thank you. Way to go. What were you gambling on? It's stupid apps like MGM, like on the slot machines and stuff. It's a losing game. Yeah, it is. They say house wins. Okay, good for you, Joey. How can we help? Thank you. Yeah, so I started budgeting in June of this year from watching you guys a show.

2:05:57And I've accumulated some debt from gambling. I've already paid off. I started with 28,000 and that I got it down to 23,000, 911. Way to go. But I'm trying to figure out how to prioritize it. List your debts. List your debts smallest to largest. Yeah, so regardless of what kind of debt or what the interest rate is. Yeah, absolutely. Credit cards. I have 10,1115. On one card. No, it's a four separate card. List them individually. Okay. Smallest to largest. Smallest to largest and pay minimum payments on everything. But the little one and attack the little one with a vengeance. Hey, we want to be part of your healing. I'm excited for your journey. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover, which will show you exactly how to do all of this stuff. Joey, way to go, man. I'm proud of you. We're also going to sign you up for every dollar of the advanced version of our budgeting app to also help you to continue this healing process. We want to be there for you and give you everything you can do.

2:06:58Hey, the young guys out there, you need to take Joey's cue. Fastest thing that's destroying men, young men in their 20s is sports betting. I mean, draft kings is not a blessing to your life. I'll just tell you, it's screwing up more of you guys than anything else we're running into. So Joey's just the tip of the iceberg. Make sure you do this stuff. Hey, guys, that's how it's done. It's common sense for your dollars and cents. And, you know, grandma's advice still works. Even if it's filtered through a John Deloney or Dave Rams, it's just blood, unless you make, man. We're in 100% of the time. There it is. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.