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if they knew that he was, like I remember, I told you, that it comes out automatically from R&D.
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It says the x, y, and z, inmate, won't be returning.
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So he needs to bring his belongings to court, line.
1:16
So if they knew he was WAB, who informed him?
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Because I bet you, I can guarantee, on the century paperwork,
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that was generated that morning, that night,
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so that would have been the 7th,
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because it's generated on the 7th for the 8th,
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know the 8th for the 9th,
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I know it didn't have WAB on it.
1:35
Question, okay, so my question is that WAB stands for with all belongings, right?
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Answer, yes, question.
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So, and here's my question for you.
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If officer redacted was aware of that,
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he would be made aware by who?
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Answer, he would have been made aware by R&D staff.
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Question, who was the R&D staff that day?
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Answer, well, the only one I could,
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because he's not on our roster, he's not correctional services,
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I can only go by this.
2:06
Question, and who is that?
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Answer, miss small, question, miss small, okay?
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Answer, but I can tell you miss small,
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she works from, I think her end shift is 10 o'clock.
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So that means she would have been there around 2,
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because I think she worked 2 to 10.
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I don't think on the weekends,
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I don't think the R&D staff stayed past 10, past 10.
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You understand what I'm saying?
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Question, okay, answer, so they didn't stay past 10.
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Question, so my question is,
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if R&D knew, should that control document on the first page?
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Should that have been updated by then?
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Answer, yup, this E1 should have this is not a correct E1.
2:46
Question, so the E1 is wrong?
2:49
So at that point, that 4 p.m. count, that out,
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The last column, what does that say?
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Answer, which one sir?
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Question, the out count.
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The out count shouldn't have shown 1 o'clock for the shoe.
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Answer, right, because it would have said 2.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Because that means that the out count from the shoe
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was Jeffrey Epstein.
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Question, and if you look at it,
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is the Epstein popping up on another column over there
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under attorney visit?
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Answer, it should have been.
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Question, is there an attorney?
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Answer, attorney visiting.
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Question, is he on there?
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On attorney visiting?
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Check the first or second column.
3:32
Answer, okay, let's see.
3:34
Question, is there one that says ATTY?
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Answer, okay, no sir, I don't see ATTY on it.
3:43
Question, can I see that for a second?
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This one right here.
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Answer, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
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Question, I pointed to the first column that said it.
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Answer, okay, I'm sorry, yeah.
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It shows that there was a total of three inmates
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that was out at attorney and out at attorney visiting
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during the 4 p.m. count.
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Question, and one of them did one of those inmates
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Answer, one of those was Zulu Alpha.
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Question, okay, and then, at that point,
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they also, for Zulu Alpha,
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they're showing that one inmate was four,
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is still on out count,
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which means possibly that it's mentioning,
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Question, the last column.
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Answer, the last column, it says out count.
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It still says one for Zulu Alpha.
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Question, so it should have been updated by then,
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being the fact that this is the 4 p.m. count.
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Question, they should have been updated by then,
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because they got a notification at 1.50 p.m.
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that he's not coming back.
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Question, so the E1 document is wrong.
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Question, now if redacted, told officers redacted,
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redacted, and redacted, that inmate Reyes
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wasn't going WAB, and that Epstein would need to be assigned
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to sellmate upon arrival from his attorney visit.
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He gets cut off by the captain, yes sir.
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He continues with the question, the investigator.
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Reyes has to communicate where, who dropped the ball,
5:18
Answer, okay, I mean for the sake of time,
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that we talked about before is,
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that means they would notify by me,
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that he needed to sellmate.
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They knew the expectation,
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so that means if you know that at 1.15 p.m.
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or 1.50 p.m., he wasn't coming back.
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That means you should have got on the phone,
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and contacted the operations lieutenant.
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And we discussed this, and this is where we talked about,
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if they did that, they let redacted know,
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redacted is the one who dropped the ball.
5:52
Question, all right, and what you're saying though,
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is I think that what you said,
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is during the morning shift, the zero darkundrid,
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to 8 a.m., or I think it was 8 a.m., right.
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Question, it's 8 a.m., they wouldn't have known.
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They wouldn't have known.
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Question, or answer, they wouldn't have known.
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Question, right, because they,
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because if the counts weren't done at 4 and 10,
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they wouldn't have necessarily known.
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Answer, they wouldn't have necessarily known.
6:20
Question, but what about like,
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if they had a conversation at 12 a.m.,
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with the absolute tenant,
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about the fact that the counts are off,
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redo, or was it 10 p.m.?
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Answer, it's midnight.
6:32
Question, the midnight one,
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was the one where the count is.
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If you look at it, yeah, the count.
6:43
Question, redacted, and she worked 10 p.m.,
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and she worked from 4 p.m. through.
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Question, so this is it right here.
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So we're talking about 8 10 2019,
6:55
that's going to be, so this E1 was generated
7:03
And this shows that there are 72 inmates in the shoe.
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Can you look at the counts for that day?
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Answer, yeah, question,
7:16
or could it be the second to last?
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So I'm assuming you're looking for ZA.
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Answer, correct, question,
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and then if you could just circle ZA,
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so we know what we're looking at.
7:28
Answer, ZA, what is the count on?
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That is, it appears, it says the count,
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Question, and that cleared count was 72, correct?
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Answer, that is correct.
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Question, okay, do you want to follow up?
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Question, if there was a mistake with the count,
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and the lieutenant caught onto the mistake,
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what was the quota, was the protocol?
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Next part, redacted.
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Answer, all right, this is what happened.
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So if I'm the officer's I count, I count the unit,
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and they say 73, the control center
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would have been like no bad count.
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They're not going to tell you what you counted,
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they're going to make you count again.
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So the procedure is, once the bad count has been made,
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notified, the control center notifies the lieutenant,
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and the lieutenant is supposed to go up to the unit
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to observe the count.
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When you have health,
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you need information that you can trust.
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Question, all right, so if the absolute lieutenant,
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in this case, should have gone and observed.
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So if there's a bad count, that's the protocol.
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Answer, that's policy.
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Answer, so you go upstairs,
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well, I'm sorry, that's the expectation.
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Question, so expectation, not policy.
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Answer, I can't, I'm not going to sit up here
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and call policy when I don't know it verbatim.
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Question, absolutely.
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Answer, but I will tell you the expectation
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is that the supervisor, correctional services,
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a lieutenant, on an announcement of a bad count,
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will go to the area of the count
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and will observe the said count.
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Question, what if the supervisor claims that,
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when they called in the count,
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and when they said 73, they said,
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hey, we're calling in 73,
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but we know we're off by one.
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Does that make any sense?
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Answer, that doesn't.
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That means the institution count is going to be bad.
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And that is worse, and the worst thing
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that you can have happened.
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Besides the inmate, it's three things.
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An inmate died, you're counting off,
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or an inmate escaping.
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Those are the big things right there.
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If your count is bad,
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because that's what we get paid to do,
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where the masters of count,
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accountability of inmates,
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in a correctional setting,
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that's what you do.
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That's what you're paid for.
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So you call me as a lieutenant,
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and you tell me, hey, LT,
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we keep counting the unit,
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and the unit, and the count is bad.
10:14
So the next thing I'm going to tell you,
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give me some staff up there.
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I want to stand up, bed book.
10:21
So then I'm going to identify each inmate by their face,
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and their cell assignment to get the count.
10:30
So what if they say we're off by one?
10:32
But we know where the one is.
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That one is over there,
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and then the lieutenant responds.
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All right, I'm going to verify,
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where that one staff is.
10:41
You redo the count?
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Would that make sense?
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What I'm telling you,
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is when it was supposed to have been done.
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So even if they said by K,
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So let's say Thomas,
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who is not a typical shoe guy,
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he's the one that calls us in.
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He says I wrote down 73 on the count slip,
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but that's because one of our guys
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that we're counting for is over at,
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And then the lieutenant then says,
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I'm going to verify that this person is there,
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you reconduct the count,
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and create a new slip.
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Answer, okay, so it was one RA.
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I believe that's R&D,
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R&D, I believe is R&D, right?
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there was nobody in R&D,
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So if the policy is,
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lieutenant is on there,
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I'm going to watch you do it,
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and so that's the second count.
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The third count is the standing bedbook count,
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that I use the bedbook cards,
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and I go sell by sell,
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and I make the inmates say their names,
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and I physically identify them all by face.
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If that don't work,
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all of this stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log,
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that bad count one,
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bad count was identified.
11:59
The next thing would have been,
12:01
was to go back through the prior counts,
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to see of the movement,
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of who was in or out,
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because if your count cleared here,
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you only had one out of the unit,
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that means your count should have went from,
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that's telling me that it must have been 71,
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Is that the 4 p.m. count?
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Question, answer yeah,
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then at 10 p.m. count,
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and 930 count was 73.
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So where did those inmates go?
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Where did those inmates go?
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So somebody was in there messing with the numbers,
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in order for the count to clear.
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Question, in order to find out,
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we have to go into TrueScope?
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Is that where you would find out?
12:53
Century is supposed to be full proof,
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but it's only as good as the people
13:01
that's putting the information in there.
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Answer, sure, sure.
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the people that are putting the information,
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or is it the control center?
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this is what happens.
13:13
In theory, you've got,
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when the inmates come back from court,
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and they do the transfer orders,
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and it goes to a control,
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R&D is supposed to update those inmates coming back in,
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control center gets the transfer order,
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and they're verifying.
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any internal movement is done inside the unit,
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the OIC is supposed to do it,
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moves the inmate on the unit,
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They're supposed to make that century,
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to make the appropriate move.
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so looking at these,
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do you believe that there,
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we're going to wrap up right here,
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and in the next episode,
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dealing with the topic,
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we're going to pick up,
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We found in the description box.