Inside The OIG Interview: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 11) (4/3/26)

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Čr, nope, so 150,

if they knew that he was, like I remember, I told you, that it comes out automatically from R&D.

It says the x, y, and z, inmate, won't be returning.

So he needs to bring his belongings to court, line.

So if they knew he was WAB, who informed him?

Because I bet you, I can guarantee, on the century paperwork,

that was generated that morning, that night,

so that would have been the 7th,

because it's generated on the 7th for the 8th,

know the 8th for the 9th,

I know it didn't have WAB on it.

Question, okay, so my question is that WAB stands for with all belongings, right?

Answer, yes, question.

So, and here's my question for you.

If officer redacted was aware of that,

he would be made aware by who?

Answer, he would have been made aware by R&D staff.

Question, who was the R&D staff that day?

Answer, well, the only one I could,

because he's not on our roster, he's not correctional services,

I can only go by this.

Question, and who is that?

Answer, miss small, question, miss small, okay?

Answer, but I can tell you miss small,

she works from, I think her end shift is 10 o'clock.

So that means she would have been there around 2,

because I think she worked 2 to 10.

I don't think on the weekends,

I don't think the R&D staff stayed past 10, past 10.

You understand what I'm saying?

Question, okay, answer, so they didn't stay past 10.

Question, so my question is,

if R&D knew, should that control document on the first page?

Should that have been updated by then?

Answer, yup, this E1 should have this is not a correct E1.

Question, so the E1 is wrong?

So at that point, that 4 p.m. count, that out,

what is that?

The last column, what does that say?

Answer, which one sir?

Question, the out count.

The out count shouldn't have shown 1 o'clock for the shoe.

Answer, right, because it would have said 2.

You know what I'm saying?

Because that means that the out count from the shoe

was Jeffrey Epstein.

Question, and if you look at it,

is the Epstein popping up on another column over there

under attorney visit?

Answer, it should have been.

Question, is there an attorney?

Answer, attorney visiting.

Question, is he on there?

On attorney visiting?

Check the first or second column.

Answer, okay, let's see.

Question, is there one that says ATTY?

Answer, okay, no sir, I don't see ATTY on it.

Question, can I see that for a second?

This one right here.

Answer, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Question, I pointed to the first column that said it.

Answer, okay, I'm sorry, yeah.

It shows that there was a total of three inmates

that was out at attorney and out at attorney visiting

during the 4 p.m. count.

Question, and one of them did one of those inmates

belong to the shoe.

Answer, one of those was Zulu Alpha.

Question, okay, and then, at that point,

they also, for Zulu Alpha,

they're showing that one inmate was four,

is still on out count,

which means possibly that it's mentioning,

Efron Reyes then.

Answer, okay.

Question, the last column.

Answer, the last column, it says out count.

It still says one for Zulu Alpha.

Question, so it should have been updated by then,

being the fact that this is the 4 p.m. count.

Answer, right.

Question, they should have been updated by then,

because they got a notification at 1.50 p.m.

that he's not coming back.

Answer, correct.

Question, so the E1 document is wrong.

Answer, right.

Question, now if redacted, told officers redacted,

redacted, and redacted, that inmate Reyes

wasn't going WAB, and that Epstein would need to be assigned

to sellmate upon arrival from his attorney visit.

He gets cut off by the captain, yes sir.

He continues with the question, the investigator.

Reyes has to communicate where, who dropped the ball,

and at that point.

Answer, okay, I mean for the sake of time,

that we talked about before is,

that means they would notify by me,

that he needed to sellmate.

Question, yeah.

Answer, they knew.

They knew the expectation,

so that means if you know that at 1.15 p.m.

or 1.50 p.m., he wasn't coming back.

That means you should have got on the phone,

and contacted the operations lieutenant.

And we discussed this, and this is where we talked about,

if they did that, they let redacted know,

redacted is the one who dropped the ball.

Question, uh-huh.

Answer, yeah.

Question, all right, and what you're saying though,

is I think that what you said,

is during the morning shift, the zero darkundrid,

to 8 a.m., or I think it was 8 a.m., right.

Answer, yes sir.

Question, it's 8 a.m., they wouldn't have known.

They wouldn't have known.

Question, or answer, they wouldn't have known.

Question, right, because they,

because if the counts weren't done at 4 and 10,

they wouldn't have necessarily known.

Answer, they wouldn't have necessarily known.

Question, but what about like,

if they had a conversation at 12 a.m.,

with the absolute tenant,

about the fact that the counts are off,

redo, or was it 10 p.m.?

Answer, it's midnight.

Question, the midnight one,

was the one where the count is.

He gets cut off.

If you look at it, yeah, the count.

Indicernable.

Question, redacted, and she worked 10 p.m.,

and she worked from 4 p.m. through.

Question, so this is it right here.

So we're talking about 8 10 2019,

that's going to be, so this E1 was generated

at 035 17 hours.

And this shows that there are 72 inmates in the shoe.

Can you look at the counts for that day?

The very last page.

Answer, yeah, question,

or could it be the second to last?

So I'm assuming you're looking for ZA.

Answer, correct, question,

and then if you could just circle ZA,

so we know what we're looking at.

Answer, ZA, what is the count on?

That is, it appears, it says the count,

on that day was 73.

Question, and that cleared count was 72, correct?

Answer, that is correct.

Question, okay, do you want to follow up?

Question, if there was a mistake with the count,

and the lieutenant caught onto the mistake,

what was the quota, was the protocol?

Next part, redacted.

Answer, all right, this is what happened.

So if I'm the officer's I count, I count the unit,

and they say 73, the control center

would have been like no bad count.

They're not going to tell you what you counted,

they're going to make you count again.

So the procedure is, once the bad count has been made,

notified, the control center notifies the lieutenant,

and the lieutenant is supposed to go up to the unit

to observe the count.

When you have health,

you need information that you can trust.

Question, all right, so if the absolute lieutenant,

in this case, should have gone and observed.

So if there's a bad count, that's the protocol.

Answer, that's policy.

Question, okay?

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Question, okay.

Answer, so you go upstairs,

well, I'm sorry, that's the expectation.

Question, so expectation, not policy.

Answer, I can't, I'm not going to sit up here

and call policy when I don't know it verbatim.

Question, absolutely.

Answer, but I will tell you the expectation

is that the supervisor, correctional services,

a lieutenant, on an announcement of a bad count,

will go to the area of the count

and will observe the said count.

Question, what if the supervisor claims that,

when they called in the count,

and when they said 73, they said,

hey, we're calling in 73,

but we know we're off by one.

Does that make any sense?

Answer, that doesn't.

That means the institution count is going to be bad.

And that is worse, and the worst thing

that you can have happened.

Besides the inmate, it's three things.

An inmate died, you're counting off,

or an inmate escaping.

Those are the big things right there.

If your count is bad,

because that's what we get paid to do,

where the masters of count,

that's what we do,

accountability of inmates,

in a correctional setting,

that's what you do.

That's what you're paid for.

So you call me as a lieutenant,

and you tell me, hey, LT,

we keep counting the unit,

and the unit, and the count is bad.

So the next thing I'm going to tell you,

give me some staff up there.

I want to stand up, bed book.

So then I'm going to identify each inmate by their face,

and their cell assignment to get the count.

Questions?

So what if they say we're off by one?

But we know where the one is.

That one is over there,

and then the lieutenant responds.

All right, I'm going to verify,

where that one staff is.

You redo the count?

Would that make sense?

Answer, no.

What I'm telling you,

is when it was supposed to have been done.

So even if they said by K,

we wrote down 73.

So let's say Thomas,

who is not a typical shoe guy,

he's the one that calls us in.

He says I wrote down 73 on the count slip,

but that's because one of our guys

that we're counting for is over at,

let's say, R&D.

And then the lieutenant then says,

I'm going to verify that this person is there,

you reconduct the count,

and create a new slip.

Answer, okay, so it was one RA.

I believe that's R&D,

R&D, I believe is R&D, right?

So no, R&D,

there was nobody in R&D,

there's no one.

So if the policy is,

lieutenant is on there,

I'm going to watch you do it,

and so that's the second count.

The third count is the standing bedbook count,

that I use the bedbook cards,

and I go sell by sell,

and I make the inmates say their names,

and number,

and I physically identify them all by face.

If that don't work,

all of this stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log,

that bad count one,

bad count two,

shoe reports,

bad count three,

bad count four,

bad count was identified.

The next thing would have been,

was to go back through the prior counts,

to see of the movement,

of who was in or out,

because if your count cleared here,

at 10,

you only had one out of the unit,

which was Epstein.

When we came back,

that means your count should have went from,

if it was 72 here,

that's telling me that it must have been 71,

at boom,

so it's 76.

Is that the 4 p.m. count?

Question, answer yeah,

it was 76,

then at 10 p.m. count,

and 930 count was 73.

So where did those inmates go?

Where did those inmates go?

So somebody was in there messing with the numbers,

in order for the count to clear.

Question, in order to find out,

where they went,

is it,

we have to go into TrueScope?

Is that where you would find out?

Answer,

you would,

you could,

go into True.

Century is supposed to be full proof,

all proof.

Question,

okay, so Century,

answer,

but it's only as good as the people

that's putting the information in there.

Answer, sure, sure.

And are the shoe,

the people that are putting the information,

or is it the control center?

Answer,

this is what happens.

In theory, you've got,

when the inmates come back from court,

and they do the transfer orders,

and it goes to a control,

R&D is supposed to update those inmates coming back in,

control center gets the transfer order,

and they're verifying.

Any time,

any internal movement is done inside the unit,

like shoe,

the OIC is supposed to do it,

if a case manager,

a unit manager,

or a counselor,

moves the inmate on the unit,

guess what?

They're supposed to make that century,

discernible,

PP34 transaction,

in Century,

to make the appropriate move.

Question,

so looking at these,

do you believe that there,

gets cut off?

These are all bad.

Question,

they're all bad,

answer,

aha,

all.

Question,

all of them,

answer,

they're all bad,

all bogus.

All right,

we're going to wrap up right here,

and in the next episode,

dealing with the topic,

we're going to pick up,

where we left off.

We found in the description box.