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What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
1:51
this episode we're going to dive right back in to the Tova Noel interview with
1:55
the OIG inspector. Question so do you remember if that would have been at 10
2:01
a little after a little bit before and again this is last time you saw this big
2:07
guy who's caused your life to flip upside down. Noel but I can't that's what I'm
2:13
saying. Question you just got a ballpark it. Noel it's somewhere around 10
2:19
question so you just always write the time of the count. Noel yeah with the
2:24
counts even if because remember on the unit you're waiting to count. So let's say
2:30
you fill out the 10 o'clock slip but let's say we didn't actually go down
2:34
range until 10 30 you don't actually put 10 30 it's a 10 o'clock count. So you're
2:40
always going to say 10 o'clock question okay Noel so that's what I'm saying
2:46
just ballpark it. Question so approximately 10 p.m. Noel yeah or after 10 question okay so
2:53
on the round does that also say 10 p.m. I mean I know you said you populated that one
2:59
but what does that one say and that's for August 9th you already said August 10th none of the
3:04
rounds were conducted on August 9th I guess around the 10 you know that nothing after 10
3:09
was actually conducted on the round sheet. Noel it has after 10 on here question okay so those
3:15
ones those ones from then on you know those weren't conducted Noel right remember I didn't fill
3:22
this out question you pre-populated it right so I want to make sure we know that you said that
3:29
some of those were conducted Noel right question you don't remember which ones you did Noel
3:35
right question but I just know that those are the ones that weren't conducted
3:41
after 10 p.m. Noel right question okay all right so that last you're saying the last round
3:48
and the count were on and one in the same and was that an authorized practice is around an
3:54
account if you're doing a 10 p.m. count does that also what can you document on the round sheet
4:01
as something you did at 10 p.m. Noel yes question okay so they can overlap for that Noel yes question
4:09
were any supervisors present for any cell counts around in the shoe on either August 9th or 10th
4:15
2019 Noel no question is there a requirement or was there at that time that a supervisor every
4:24
supervisor at least one per shift should have conducted around or account with you guys in the
4:29
shoe not of you staff members but the inmates Noel you're saying if the supervisor should have
4:38
she gets cut off should a supervisor you know like a lieutenant observed or participated in
4:44
account or around of the inmates during their shift at least one do you know of that Noel I think so
4:51
question you think that they're supposed to do that Noel yeah question and during your time in the
4:56
shoe did a lieutenant ever participate or observe account or around while you were in the shoe
5:03
Noel redacted did question redacted did Noel redacted did because she went down on the tears
5:10
but on the midnight to 8 lieutenant redacted didn't walk the tears question okay so when redacted
5:16
did on August 9th she actually walked the tears and checked out the inmates Noel she did question
5:23
she did okay and went around what that have been do you remember Noel I don't remember the time
5:29
question did she do it by herself or did she go with you guys while you were conducting around
5:34
or account Noel no she didn't do anything with us question so she did it by herself Noel correct
5:42
question she walked up and down each of the six tears Noel she went down the tears question
5:48
do you know if that is a requirement that a lieutenant does that in the shoe Noel I don't know
5:54
question have you ever observed anyone prior to August 9th redacted doing that Noel observe a
6:00
lieutenant going down the tear question either do it themselves a lieutenant do the round themselves
6:06
or watch the staff members do it Noel oh no they never know they never watched us do it
6:12
question never watch never observed Noel no question did they ever conduct it with you
6:17
Noel no question but they would occasionally do it themselves Noel redacted make the lieutenants
6:24
will make around yeah question so not just pop into the shoe but redacted actually go up and down
6:31
Noel yes some not all question some all right and that's what I'm asking do you know if it's a
6:38
requirement Noel cuts them off that I don't know questions so you don't know what the policy is
6:44
Noel I don't know that the lieutenant she gets cut off rule or what they're supposed to or not do
6:51
Noel what's supposed to do question all right but that didn't happen did that happen more often than
6:57
not when they actually doing around with the inmates lieutenants Noel if it happened that they
7:04
walked the tears question correct Noel some of them do not all question which ones would do it
7:10
Noel lieutenant redacted was the shoe lieutenant so he walks the tears all the time question okay
7:17
Noel and then the other lieutenants that's on when they come down they sign the round sheets
7:22
question but do they actually do the rounds themselves or they just sign your sheet and check in
7:27
with you Noel they don't do it all the time they sign the sheet and they check in with me and they'll
7:33
say like is there anything going on but they don't get physically or actually walk it all the time
7:39
question okay so it's occasionally Noel yeah question all right but okay Noel I don't know if
7:46
it's a requirement question all right you're saying you don't recall the 4 p.m. you may have
7:52
you might not have Noel I don't recall question you just don't recall all right so 12 a.m.
7:59
3 a.m. 5 a.m. we don't need to go into these specific things you said none of them were conducted
8:04
there were false you both sign them and submitted them correct Noel correct question and you knew
8:11
that you and you knew that you had to do the count Noel yes question what conversation did you
8:18
have with Thomas about doing that Noel we didn't have a conversation he was exhausted and he was
8:25
sleeping question Thomas Noel yes question so at 12 a.m. until because you said you filled them all
8:31
out at about 12 Noel yeah question and you didn't have a conversation about filling them out at 12
8:40
Noel no because we do that all the time like when he came in we filled them out and then I think
8:47
when the phone rang he had the conversation and then there was another time when I was looking for
8:52
the count slip he had it and I couldn't find it so I had to like wake them up and reassign the
8:58
count slip question now can you walk me through that so he gets a call you already filled out the
9:04
count slip was once submitted you put it through the door and internal came and got it Noel yeah
9:11
question and that's when they called them back Noel and he spoke to whoever and then he wrote on
9:17
the count slip and we filled it out and I put it back through the door question for the corrected
9:24
one that said 73 then you made it 72 Noel I don't remember but I know I filled out a new one
9:31
question at 12 a.m. Noel yeah question and did you have to at that time fill out a new 3 a.m.
9:38
and 5 a.m. Noel yeah because I couldn't find the count slips that he had and I filled it out
9:45
and I woke him up and he filled it I remember that question so this was later so he gets a call
9:51
he falls asleep and then later you have to wake him up to reassign Noel no he gets the call he does
9:57
it then he falls asleep when he gets a call to change whatever we change it and then he falls
10:03
asleep question so you only change the 12 a.m. he falls asleep and then you have to wake him up to
10:09
change the 3 a.m. and the 5 a.m. Noel yeah question okay and you just never talked about that
10:15
or what you were doing Noel no we didn't talk about it question because that's just common
10:21
practice Noel to fill out the count slips before question to pre-populate count slips you're
10:27
supposed to count inmates to make sure that they're there and write the number of what you counted
10:32
Noel yes question common practice is you just fill that out first and you said that you don't
10:39
have access to that or what the count number is supposed to be Noel I never said I don't have
10:44
access I don't know how to I don't know if I have access I don't know how to find what it's
10:49
supposed to be question so how do you get the number that you write on the slip Noel the number
10:56
that I wrote on the slip the officer gave it to me question so whoever you replace they tell you
11:02
what the number is to write question you pre-populated that number is that correct Noel correct
11:08
and you fill it out even on a regular housing unit I fill it all out and when I count because even
11:14
if it's wrong you can just rewrite it question right Noel because even if I come in and you say
11:20
it's 72 I fill it out and I put 72 on all of them I know nobody there is no movement between 12
11:28
and 8 and even if I did and I put 72 and I counted and it's wrong I could just change it so that's
11:36
the way I've always done it question does that sound weird to you or just me Noel what question
11:43
that that's the way it's done that you pre-populated all these numbers and then you just change them
11:48
later if they end up being off Noel no because they're usually not off question um Noel and then
11:55
like if I'm working a unit if I work that unit and I did a double there I counted so I know that's
12:01
what it is so it doesn't sound crazy that I fill it out question well in this instance it does
12:07
because your account was wrong the one you said that you counted Noel okay but that's the case
12:13
but I'm saying like it's not if I worked a double on 11 North and I've been there the shift before
12:20
and the shift after and I filled it out I know there's no movement so no it's not crazy that I
12:26
filled it out question right so had you worked with Thomas prior to this instance Noel never question
12:32
you never did Noel no question and there was no conversation with them about these not doing
12:39
the counts are pre-populating these count slips Noel no about pre-populating the count slips he came
12:45
in he filled it out and I signed it it wasn't a conversation about that when it was time to do the
12:52
when it was time to conduct the count I tried to wake him and he was really tired he was like I'm
12:58
tired and I didn't we didn't conduct the count question all right and that was that what time 12
13:05
Noel I don't remember the time question what count would have been for that you tried to wake
13:11
him up then he said he was tired Noel I don't know question you don't know Noel no question would
13:19
it have been the 12 because you're already Noel cuts them off it could have been the 12 it could
13:24
have been three I don't know question all right Noel he was tired question so that was the one
13:30
conversation Noel cuts them off because I counted upstairs like why would I go upstairs in county
13:36
unit and leave my unit so I woke him up he was tired so I went upstairs and I counted with redacted
13:43
question and what time was that at Noel three and five question you did the three and the five
13:49
Noel yeah question you just didn't do the one in your unit Noel right question I'm trying to
13:56
reconcile the fact that you never worked with Thomas before you didn't have any conversations with
14:01
them about it Noel no question that's why I'm saying it sounds like it must be just common
14:07
practice Noel yes question you just don't conduct counts you just fill them out and you fill out
14:12
the forms Noel we didn't have a conversation about filling it out no because that's common in there
14:18
question all right so it's very common is it very common from like 12 to five count those three
14:25
not to conduct the counts and just write them Noel no question no it's not common or is it common
14:32
Noel you're saying if it's not common to conduct the count or if it's common too indesernable
14:37
it question is a common not to conduct the counts at night or the early morning hours Noel I don't
14:44
know because that's my first time ever not doing it so I don't know if it's common not to conduct
14:49
the count but if it's common to fill it out before boy you need to make that more clear did you ever
14:56
work midnight to 8 a.m. to have an experience to say what happens Noel no not in the shoe question
15:02
so you've never worked midnight to eight prior to this instance Noel not in the shoe
15:08
question okay the other times you were in the shoe was a common to fill out count slips that weren't
15:12
conducted Noel in the other times that I've worked in the shoe we fill she gets cut off so you're
15:19
saying you've never worked in the shoe and we got the schedule in front of you if you want to take
15:23
a look to just help refresh your memory when you were in the shoe was a common to fill out count
15:28
slips that weren't conducted Noel count slips we fill them out and the counts were done the rounds
15:34
it was common to fill them out and the rounds weren't all conducted question so you're saying it's
15:39
common to fill them out ahead of time but it's not common not to conduct the rounds Noel the counts
15:45
correct right folks we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the
15:50
topic we're going to pick up where we left off all the information that goes with this episode
15:55
can be found in the description box