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What's up, everyone?
0:46
And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles.
0:50
In this episode, we're going to pick up
0:51
where he left off with the Tovanoel Well
0:54
interview with the OIG inspectors.
0:57
Question, all right, that you're actually
0:59
checking every door?
1:01
No, well, yeah, question.
1:03
And when you give that one person to a paper or whatever,
1:06
you're actually looking at all the different doors.
1:09
Boy, can we take a break real quick?
1:11
Because I need to take a break.
1:14
All right, so they come back from the break,
1:16
and they dive right back in.
1:18
Question, all right, is there anything
1:20
that we want to revise before we continue?
1:23
Boy, yeah, I wanted to go back.
1:25
This was from earlier about the double door,
1:28
Question, okay, boy, inaccuracies on that.
1:31
Question, sure, boy, that we clarified.
1:34
So let's start with that first.
1:36
Noelle, the outer door control pops the outer door.
1:39
I control the inner door.
1:41
So the outer door can only be opened by control.
1:44
Question, okay, so we're talking about like popping.
1:48
It was just your memory was foggy.
1:50
Noelle, I don't remember a lot of stuff,
1:52
but yeah, the outer door.
1:54
You have to call control to pop the 27 door,
1:57
and we control the inner door.
1:59
Question, okay, and then just while we're going back,
2:02
it's something I was probably going to follow up on later,
2:05
but there's been a ton of questions of like, you don't know.
2:09
Question or answer, Noelle, yeah, question.
2:12
I just want to remind you,
2:13
you did go to federal law enforcement training center,
2:16
Noelle, yeah, where you were trained as a correctional officer,
2:20
and you also received this I have training,
2:23
which I think you said was like two weeks in house training.
2:26
Noelle, yeah, question is that what it was,
2:30
as well as you received the annual training,
2:33
and all this stuff that we're talking about
2:34
isn't like the real detailed stuff.
2:37
This is like, you know, conducting rounds and counts,
2:40
and the essential duties as a correctional officer.
2:42
So I'm assuming you is it safe to assume
2:45
that you've received this training,
2:46
you know, during those trainings,
2:48
I know you didn't go to the shoe trainings,
2:51
but not too far from when this happened,
2:53
you were only on for a little over a year,
2:56
and you conducted all three of those trainings, correct?
2:59
Noelle, I was only on for a little under a year,
3:02
the training that I received in Georgia
3:04
in specific to camps and not necessarily high rises.
3:08
And the in house training, the roster reflects
3:11
all these trainings that we didn't actually receive
3:13
all the training, because sometimes there was nobody
3:19
Noelle, so when I say, I don't know, I don't know.
3:22
Question, yeah, no, it's just almost every question.
3:25
I feel like we've gone through 18 pages so far,
3:29
and so many of them are like, I don't know.
3:32
Noelle, I really don't know.
3:34
Question, all right.
3:35
It's just because, you know, people are going to say like,
3:37
well, you went to all these trainings,
3:39
you should know at least some of this stuff.
3:41
So I just wanted to try to get you to like think
3:44
back on your training.
3:47
Question, and your duties and your responsibilities
3:50
when I'm making these questions,
3:51
just so you can really like think.
3:54
Do I really now know, or is that, you know,
3:57
did I know that these things should be done?
4:00
Does that make sense?
4:04
Question, can I say, just to clarify,
4:08
I know you might not have received
4:10
some of the official trainings,
4:11
some of this stuff you might learn along the way.
4:13
Miss Noelle, uh-huh.
4:15
Question from your deli duties.
4:19
Question like it's repetitive.
4:20
Some of the stuff that you do.
4:22
So you might have known this based on the fact
4:24
that you've done it on a deli basis.
4:27
So if you say, I don't know,
4:28
and you actually done it as part of your deli duties,
4:31
it kind of contradicts each other.
4:34
Miss Noelle, I understand.
4:35
Question, and I just had a question.
4:38
You mentioned the door.
4:39
Was it at any point in time on the ninth,
4:42
or was there a practice to ever leave the doors
4:45
propped open in the shoe?
4:48
Question, all right.
4:49
I think my last question, I just wanna revisit it
4:52
just to make sure that we're of the same understanding.
4:56
So again, when you're pre-populating
4:58
all these rounds, correct?
5:01
Question, but you're saying you believe
5:04
you did more than 50% of the rounds that were listed?
5:07
Noelle, I can't give you a percentage
5:10
because I don't know how to put a percentage to a round,
5:14
but I can tell you that I conducted rounds
5:16
as I went to go do something,
5:18
but I can't give you a number.
5:20
Question, and I wanna make sure that we understand, too,
5:23
if you're going down range to give some inmate
5:25
like toilet paper or something,
5:27
that you're also at that time where you're saying
5:30
you did a round, not just talking about that tier,
5:36
Question, all right.
5:37
So you're going down to give somebody toilet paper,
5:40
and at that point, he gets cut off by Noelle
5:42
because I'm giving toilet paper to everybody.
5:45
Question, all right.
5:45
So you're not just addressing one inmate.
5:49
Question, you're saying when you're giving
5:51
everybody toilet paper, Noelle, yes.
5:54
Question, so on August 9th.
5:57
When I'm giving food, I give everybody food.
6:00
When I'm collecting trays, I'm collecting all the trays.
6:03
I'm giving toilet paper.
6:06
So aside from the times, you're now giving toilet paper
6:09
and giving food and collecting trays,
6:11
which are a handful of those times granted.
6:13
Are you doing any other rounds?
6:17
And if somebody calls, she gets cut off on August 9th.
6:21
We're talking about Noelle on the 9th.
6:24
If somebody calls and asks for something, yeah.
6:28
Question, and that's kind of what I'm getting at.
6:30
If you're handling one specific inmate
6:33
because they called and asked for something,
6:35
you're then also addressing the other five tiers.
6:40
Noelle, because usually when one calls,
6:42
everybody else hears and everybody wants something,
6:47
Question, all right.
6:47
So on August 9th, you didn't conduct
6:49
all the documented rounds.
6:52
Question, but you did do some of them.
6:55
Question, and you don't have a number.
7:06
To this, Foy interjects, but I think the clear point
7:09
is when she did it, it's not based on the times on the paper.
7:13
Foy right, so that doesn't match.
7:16
The time she did it versus the time on the paper
7:19
because that paper is done at the beginning of the shift,
7:21
with the time already selected.
7:23
Question, oh, are you filling out the entire paper
7:26
at the beginning of the shift?
7:28
Question, oh, so you're not doing it every 30 minutes,
7:31
just pre-populating before you do the round.
7:34
Foy right, noelle, no.
7:36
Question, you're going at the very beginning of the shift,
7:39
filling everything out.
7:42
Question, so that, when did you fill out
7:44
the August 9th round sheet?
7:46
Noelle, like how the numbers are like
7:48
the round sheets before, like the times.
7:50
So I just fill it out, because that's what I've seen
7:52
being done, like it's filled out before
7:55
or sometimes at the end after,
7:57
so I fill it out all before.
8:00
So you pre-populated that entire thing
8:03
at the very beginning of your shift.
8:05
Question, and then you just conducted the rounds as needed.
8:10
Question, all right.
8:11
And you've seen people do this?
8:14
Question, who else have you seen do that?
8:16
Noelle, I mean, I don't have a specific name,
8:19
but I've seen it done.
8:20
Question, did anyone ever tell you to do that?
8:24
Noelle, this is actually, I think, the first time
8:26
I've ever done the round sheets,
8:28
because I've never actually done the round sheets
8:30
in the shoe, but those two days were the days
8:32
that I've done the round sheets in the shoe.
8:35
Question, so if this was your first time doing a round sheet,
8:38
did someone instruct you on how to do it?
8:41
Noelle, no, because I just followed what I've seen.
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But I've worked with people before that we're filling it out,
10:16
and that's how it's been done.
10:18
Question, and did you have discussions with them?
10:21
Noel, no, I never had a discussion about it.
10:24
Question, so you just observed people doing this.
10:28
Question, but no one ever told you to do that?
10:32
Question, and did you know that it was wrong to do that?
10:36
Question, you didn't know that it was wrong.
10:38
To pre-populate the rounds you conducted
10:41
when you weren't conducting those rounds?
10:44
I mean, if I'm putting the time on there,
10:47
saying that I conducted the round at this time,
10:49
and I didn't conduct the round at this time, that's wrong.
10:52
But I didn't think it was wrong
10:53
to just fill it all out because, or after,
10:56
because that's how they do it.
10:58
Question, so that's a contradicting statement.
11:01
You know that it's not right to conduct a round
11:03
at the time that you conducted it,
11:05
but you didn't know that it was wrong to indecernable?
11:08
Foy, she knows that now, but this is the way it was done.
11:13
Foy, she followed, but like when you look at the policy,
11:16
and now that we're here, and we've had discussions,
11:19
okay, that's not how it's supposed to work.
11:22
Question, but at the time that you're filling this out
11:25
on August 9th, at the beginning of your shift,
11:27
saying that you conducted these rounds at a time
11:30
that they weren't conducted yet.
11:32
You had to know that it wasn't.
11:34
Maybe you saw people doing the wrong thing,
11:36
but you couldn't have possibly thought
11:37
that that was correct.
11:39
Noel, well, I, she gets cut off,
11:42
because you're falsely certifying
11:43
that rounds are completed when you didn't.
11:46
There's times even that their events in the future.
11:50
Noel, I understand, but I didn't know that.
11:52
I just followed whatever I saw that was being done.
11:55
Question, I absolutely understand that defense
11:58
that you said other people have done this
12:00
and you're following their guidance,
12:02
but you can't possibly think that it's okay
12:04
to fill out certifications, saying that you conducted rounds
12:07
in the future, that haven't even taken place,
12:09
and that you've actually didn't do at the same time.
12:12
Is that something being lost in translation?
12:14
Do you follow what I'm asking you?
12:17
Did you think it's okay to sign on the round sheet
12:20
that you conducted a time, conducted around?
12:23
Noel, but it's the same thing as the end,
12:27
like if I do it all at the end at the times
12:29
that I'm putting, I'm not going to remember
12:32
all these times specifically.
12:34
Question, absolutely.
12:35
I would also argue that any time you're falsifying a record,
12:38
you always know that that's wrong.
12:40
Noel, so, but I mean question,
12:43
so I understand what you're saying
12:45
that other people do it,
12:46
and that's why I wanna get into who else is doing this,
12:49
who trained you on this?
12:51
How do you know that this was the way that things are done?
12:54
So that's where my question of who talked to you about it.
12:58
You said no one actually spoke to you about this.
13:01
Noel cuts them off.
13:03
No, I just seen people do it.
13:04
Question, observe people.
13:06
So who did you, Noel cuts them off?
13:09
Because I never had, he picks up, observe do that.
13:12
Noel, I never had a conversation
13:14
with anyone about filling out the round sheets.
13:19
So if that's going to be the argument
13:21
that you're doing it based upon your training
13:23
and experience, I need to know more about this training
13:28
Who is it that you experience?
13:30
Do this in the past.
13:31
Noel, people that I've worked with, question.
13:34
So I'd like to think about all right.
13:37
I know this because I saw that person do it.
13:39
Noel, I'm redacted, question.
13:42
So you've witnessed redacted over a populate
13:44
or at the end of the shift.
13:46
Noel, I don't remember exactly,
13:48
but it's done either or the way.
13:51
Question, all right.
13:52
So you saw redacted and who else?
13:54
Noel redacted, question redacted,
13:58
Noel, no, question, no a different redacted?
14:02
What is redacted a gentleman's name?
14:04
Noel, yes, question.
14:06
What's the person's first name?
14:07
Noel, I don't know the first name.
14:10
Question, who worked in the shoe?
14:12
Noel, yes, question.
14:14
You mentioned redacted before.
14:22
Question, it's like indesernable.
14:24
Boy, it's a first or last name.
14:28
Question, is it the first or last name?
14:39
Anyone else aside from those three people?
14:42
Noel, I never seen redacted.
14:44
Question, all right.
14:45
So in the recollections of the three people
14:47
that you named, what did you observe them do?
14:50
Miss Noel, fill it out after or fill it out before.
14:53
Question, and was that on numerous occasions?
14:59
All right, so we're gonna wrap up right here
15:00
and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up
15:04
All the information that goes with this episode
15:06
can be found in the description box.
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