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What's up, everyone?
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And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles.
1:35
In this episode, we're going to pick up
1:36
where we left off with the Tovo Noel,
1:39
interview with the OIG inspectors.
1:42
Question, all right.
1:43
And again, we briefly talked about them,
1:45
but redacted, Noel, yeah, question.
1:48
Do you know if he worked that day, Noel in the morning?
1:52
Question and to replace them.
1:54
Noel redacted, question redacted.
1:57
Noel, because he worked six to two
1:59
and redacted comes in at two to 10.
2:02
Question, okay, so when someone gets replaced,
2:04
do they typically give a briefing like so would
2:07
and I apologize about the name, but redacted.
2:10
Would they, would he typically be responsible
2:13
to provide redacted with information
2:17
so that he, you know, with regard
2:20
to what happened on his assignment,
2:21
so that he can utilize that
2:23
for when he's not replacing them?
2:27
Question, does that make any sense?
2:29
Noel, I mean, I don't know if he's typically required to,
2:32
but I guess if there's information to give,
2:34
he would give it to him, but I don't know if he has to.
2:38
Question, okay, and during your time,
2:40
was there any conversation with any information
2:44
that redacted gave to redacted or passed along
2:50
Noel, I wasn't there at two.
2:53
I came in at four, but nothing was told to me.
2:56
Question, so redacted never informed you
2:59
or redacted in your presence?
3:02
Question, okay, so there was no discussion for Epstein
3:05
to be reassigned to a cellmate.
3:09
Question and again, you didn't even know
3:11
that his cellmate wasn't there.
3:15
Question, okay, and should you have known
3:18
that his cellmate wasn't there?
3:21
Question, so when you're doing the rounds
3:23
and conducting counts, wouldn't that be when you would know
3:26
if someone was with or without a cellmate?
3:29
Because you said only one other person
3:31
there didn't have a cellmate, correct?
3:33
Noel, but people move all the time when you're in the shoe,
3:37
like let's say if you did something and you're in trouble,
3:40
so you're in the shoe.
3:41
You could be sent back to your regular unit,
3:44
so it wouldn't be odd like if I was counting
3:46
when the person wasn't there.
3:48
It would just be lesser of the count,
3:50
but it wouldn't be odd if the physical person wasn't there
3:53
to me because people moved back all the time.
3:56
Question, but wouldn't they have to advise you
3:58
if you knew that there was only one person without,
4:01
you know, one person that doesn't have a cellmate?
4:04
When they have to advise you, hey, this person left,
4:06
so this person's in there by himself.
4:08
Noel, I don't know because nobody said anything to me.
4:12
Question, I'm just saying in general now,
4:14
so like if you're conducting your rounds and your counts
4:18
in order for you to know who you're supposed to be counting
4:21
during both rounds and counts, you know,
4:24
who you're supposed to be checking on
4:26
when you need to know if a cellmate was removed
4:28
and now there's only one inmate in each cell.
4:32
Noel, no, like if I'm counting and the person is not there,
4:35
like say the count was 66 and I counted 65,
4:39
that's just what redacted count.
4:42
Question, and you wouldn't try to like figure out
4:45
where's the fifth, where the 66 went?
4:47
Noel, no, because whoever moved the person
4:50
would have, I guess, documented where they moved them to.
4:53
Question, so you wouldn't, it's after you count at 65,
4:58
then you would have to just go and try to find paperwork.
5:01
Hey, is there another guy that someone else moved?
5:03
Noel, no, question, okay, so how do you reconcile the numbers?
5:09
Rather than me saying so many words, you tell me,
5:12
so do you know who's in the shoe?
5:15
Noel, so let's say like if there was 66 people in there
5:18
and one person moved to wherever,
5:21
they would have already did that.
5:22
So it wouldn't be for me to do.
5:24
When I count now because the person is not there,
5:28
I'm going to just count 65, but the number is not going to be
5:31
off because whoever moved the body,
5:33
already moved them to like, let's say,
5:35
back to the unit or wherever.
5:37
So I wouldn't be trying to find or figure out
5:40
where the person went, I'm just counting.
5:43
The body, is that what you really said?
5:46
Seems like a 40 and slipped to me.
5:48
Question, okay, so you and you're counting
5:51
and you're during the rounds and counts, right?
5:54
Not during the rounds?
5:55
Noel, right, during the counts.
5:57
Question, rounds are every 30 minutes approximately.
6:01
Noel, yeah, question, so during those rounds,
6:04
are you supposed to be when you're conducting the rounds?
6:07
What is the intent of those rounds?
6:09
Noel, whoever's in there, to make sure that they're okay.
6:13
Question, so if you don't know who is in there,
6:15
how do you make sure that they're okay?
6:18
Noel, because they would have already been
6:20
if the person's not there,
6:22
like they would have already been moved in the system.
6:25
So I'm not making a round.
6:27
I'm not going to be like, well,
6:29
oh, this person's not in there
6:30
because people go to different places.
6:32
They go back to the unit, they go to court,
6:34
they go to different places.
6:36
So again, it wouldn't be odd if somebody is not there.
6:39
I mean, I could ask the person that I'm working with,
6:41
like, oh, hey, whatever happened to so and so,
6:44
but she trails off and another question is asked.
6:49
All right, so you're saying that even though you knew
6:52
only one inmate didn't have a shoe
6:55
and especially it sounds like you're working later.
6:57
Noel, yeah, question, so everyone should pretty much
7:00
be back from wherever they went to, correct?
7:04
Question, so at that point, you only know
7:07
that one person doesn't have a cellmate.
7:09
You're walking through and you see that someone
7:11
doesn't have a cellmate.
7:13
You're not asking where is that person?
7:15
Noel, but see, I don't know that the person
7:18
has to have a cellmate.
7:19
So again, even though the one person
7:21
doesn't have a cellmate, it's not odd to me
7:24
because I don't know that they have to have a cellmate.
7:27
What if the person went back to the unit?
7:30
I didn't know where Reyes went.
7:34
Question, can I ask something?
7:37
Question, I just want to clarify when you come in, right?
7:40
Let's say you come in on reshift.
7:43
Is there somewhere near the computer that tells you
7:45
how many inmates are supposed to be in the shoe?
7:50
Question on the roster?
7:52
Question, and now let's say do you review the roster
7:57
Question, so how do you know?
7:59
Let's just say someone went missing.
8:04
Question, but isn't that when you come on shift, right?
8:08
I'm not saying this is the case,
8:10
but you're responsible to know how many inmates
8:13
are in the shoe at the time, right?
8:15
Noel, when I come on shift, I just come on
8:18
and relieve the person like when I come on at four,
8:22
So I'm doing trades and I'm feeding.
8:24
I'm not looking to see who's on the roster.
8:26
You would probably wait for count time to count
8:29
and then count to see how much people is in there.
8:32
But I'm not looking to see okay, the roster says 75
8:35
and I'm counting to make sure there are 75 people
8:40
Question, so when you're doing your rounds,
8:43
all you're doing is the people that you see,
8:46
If someone escaped, you wouldn't know that until count time.
8:50
Mr. Noel, I wouldn't know.
8:52
Question, okay, and that's basically that answers it.
8:55
So she's saying that she's not even worried
8:57
about if someone is not there.
9:00
She's only worried about the people that are there.
9:05
Question, all right.
9:07
Now the union rep has a question.
9:11
Would procedural clarification help with that question?
9:15
Question by redacted, sure.
9:17
We all have the policies here.
9:19
Would you like me to show her the policies?
9:20
I'm happy to do that.
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11:23
Union rep, yeah, or I could explain it.
11:26
Question, I'll give her the policies
11:28
and just ask her if she's familiar with that.
11:32
She knows what she should have done.
11:34
Question, I'll just say this to you.
11:36
The policy is very general for the entire agency
11:39
and not specific to MCC New York.
11:43
While he's looking, while he's looking that up,
11:45
I just want clarification.
11:46
Noel, aha, question, when you came in,
11:49
if an inmate was removed, should the roster have been edited?
11:52
Noel, it should have been.
11:54
Question, do you recall if that roster
11:56
was there a roster on your desk?
11:58
Noel, there's always a roster, but I don't look at the roster.
12:02
Question, but you don't recall if there was anything
12:05
if there was a notification or anything written down,
12:08
saying that inmate Efron Reyes was removed from the shoe?
12:13
Question, is that something that previous shift
12:16
would have communicated to you?
12:17
Noel, they could have.
12:19
Question, all right, so I'm going to read this out loud
12:22
and then redacted, provide it to you.
12:25
This is the Metropolitan Correctional Center,
12:27
New York, New York-specific post-orders.
12:30
This is specifically says shoe number one,
12:33
and I think that would be the officer in charge
12:35
as we just discussed, but I think that there,
12:37
like you said, everyone's kind of responsible
12:40
for the same thing, but it discusses right here,
12:42
I'm going to go down to the third paragraph
12:46
It says report for duty by telephone
12:49
with the operation lieutenant
12:51
and receive any additional information.
12:53
Begin making, so according to this,
12:55
it says when you report to duty,
12:57
you're supposed to talk to the operations lieutenant
12:59
and receive whatever information
13:01
you're supposed to get on your shift.
13:03
It says begin making 30-minute rounds
13:06
ensuring you document the findings into true scope.
13:10
Staff will observe all inmates and continue lockdown status
13:14
once in the first 30 minutes of the hour.
13:17
Example 12 to 12 30 AM followed by another round
13:21
in the second 30-minute period of the same hour,
13:26
This will ensure an inmate is observed
13:28
at least twice per hour.
13:29
These rounds are to be conducted on an irregular schedule
13:33
and no more than 40 minutes apart.
13:36
All observation must be documented.
13:38
It should be clearly understood
13:40
that none of these activities are to take place
13:42
until the evening watch officer is relieved.
13:46
It should be noted that it's understood
13:48
that not all of the above will be accomplished
13:51
by or before count.
13:53
That it talks about official count time.
13:55
The shoe number two officer you said you were working
13:58
is that for both your shifts
14:00
because it's specifically talking about 12 AM
14:03
where you at 12 AM on August 10th.
14:06
Mr. Well, I think I was number one, yes.
14:08
Question, all right, so this actually is pertaining
14:11
to your shift during 12 AM and 8 AM.
14:15
Foy interjects, you mean according to what you just read?
14:18
Question, what I just read?
14:22
Question, the specific, so where shoe number one,
14:26
so I guess what you were supposed to do
14:29
per the post orders was when you got on board,
14:31
you're supposed to call the operations lieutenant
14:34
and then you're supposed to say, hey,
14:36
is there any information I need to know?
14:38
And then you're supposed to start making your counts.
14:42
And that would be like where you would find out
14:45
Epstein doesn't have a cellmate.
14:46
Make sure that when you're doing your rounds,
14:49
you know where everybody's in there, you know I would think,
14:53
is that your understanding at all?
14:56
Question, was that ever put into practice?
15:00
Nobody ever calls the lieutenant when they get on shift.
15:03
Question, so no one ever talked to them?
15:06
Question, okay, is there?
15:08
I don't know if I need to continue reading this
15:10
because we're going to take a lot of time with it if we do,
15:14
just because I read it if you wanna take a look
15:17
and just initial and date there.
15:19
And then we're just going to move on.
15:23
Question, because this is taking up time.
15:26
Boy, initial up top.
15:28
Question about the point on the matter was that you knew
15:32
that you were supposed to observe the people that were there.
15:35
You weren't too concerned about people that weren't there.
15:38
No, well, nothing, correct.
15:41
Question, is that a correct understanding?
15:44
All right, we're going to wrap up right here
15:46
and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
15:48
we're going to pick up where we left off.
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