INTERVIEW: Anita Kopacz Talks 'The 'Sinners,' Ryan Coogler, Sacred Trinity, ‘Daughter Of Three Waters’ Trilogy + More

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When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.

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Oh no, every day I wake up, wake your ass up, breakfast club.

You're all finished or y'all done?

Morning, everybody. It's DJ, NV, Jess Hilarious.

She'll remain the guy. We ought to break this club.

Law and La Rosa's here as well.

We got a special guest in the building.

She's back, ladies and gentlemen, Miss Anita Copac.

Welcome back.

Welcome back.

I'm so happy to be back.

Thank you so much for having me.

How are you feeling?

Yes, how are you feeling?

Amazing, amazing.

I feel so blessed to be in here.

And I can tell you all are having fun.

So I love to be in places where I know people love what they're doing.

The wind on her tongue is your second release in the trilogy, right?

Yes.

But it's not in paperback now.

It is.

It is.

What is the difference between the paperback and the hardcover experience?

So what I'm really excited about with the paperback

is that we have the results for the art contest, right?

That.

And then there was a couple of poems.

And so those are in the paperback.

And I was able to correct a few things that I had forgotten in here.

So that was great to have just a few more corrections in there.

I love the world that you're building with the daughter of Three Waters

trilogy, the first book with shallow waters.

This is the one on our tongue.

Just explain to people what those two books are.

And what the trilogy is going to be.

Yes.

So all of my books are about the Aurecia's, which I don't know if you all noticed,

but last night or not last night, sorry.

At the Oscars.

At the Oscars that Michael B. Jordan, that he won for best actor and his for his

smoking stack, right?

And they are created from the Ibeji, which are the Aurecia.

So he won an Oscar for playing an Aurecia.

And it's the twin Aurecia.

Wow.

The twin Aurecia.

The twin Aurecia is the Ibeji.

And so the Ibeji are actually in this book.

I'm going to put this in.

Oh, she putting her glasses on.

I'm getting old.

I'm getting old now.

So let me just read this part.

The end, the end note of this book.

So I say there are many different stories about Oya.

But according to popular legend, after nine miscarriages and stillbirth,

Oya made a sacrifice on a cloth with the color of the rainbow.

She then gave birth to four sets of living twins and a ninth child.

In Europe, a myth twins are called Ibeji, meaning born two times.

The theme of the rainbow and Ibeji are closely linked to Oya.

So we have Ibeji in here.

I always say that me and Ryan Cooper are like twin souls

with our writing, if I do say so myself.

But there's a lot of similarities in the works

that we're putting out there.

And you had sent me the videos from Brazil

where they were doing those huge floats to the Aresha.

And it's like this energy, like people are really black people

are really remembering who we are and where our ancestors are from

and our spirituality.

And I think the more and more we connect to that,

the more and more unstoppable we are.

I was going to say I'm just now like looking, I'm looking at the cast

and I'm looking at what you're talking about with the different energies

and they have so like Annie or Mary, who was the white woman

who came in and started dating one of their brothers,

played by a Haley Seinfeld.

She's Ocean.

Like it's literally everything we talked with you about before

was literally the movie.

Like the cast members, all themselves, like it.

I never made the comparison to you just said it.

It says key or resha connections in centers.

Yeah, so Ocean was played by Mary.

Oh, she and I'm sorry.

One me, one me, a Mosaku, one me who played Annie, she's Oya.

Yes, this is Oya.

Yes, and she's the warrior and then she carries the bit like

and has the miscarriage.

Yes.

Have you met a cooler?

I have not met him.

Not yet.

So we had to figure that out.

No, but I did.

I don't you don't know this.

I finished the third book.

Okay, wow.

And so it doesn't come out until next year.

So there's still the process of editing and everything you

got to do as an author, all the fun stuff.

But the third one is about Oshun.

So I just want to know what was, because I know you saw

centers, obviously, right?

Well, the first time you saw it.

Ten times.

Yeah, all right.

Well, all ten times.

What was your thoughts like with as soon as I saw it?

I was like, first of all, with all of his films,

I end up crying.

I'm an emotional being.

And so when I feel something deeply,

I'm just like crying.

And my daughters are like, what?

What are you crying about?

And there were so many things that were similar,

the fact that he brought in like the how the Chinese people mixed

in with the black people.

I have that within this as well.

And the storyline of the woman being the witchy woman, right?

That is all powerful in the spirit world.

I have that.

And so for me, it just feels like, oh, I'm seeing someone speaking

my language.

And then there's something that awakens that feels so familiar.

And I feel like so many people are feeling that with centers.

And I love it.

And I'm just, I'm excited for more and more and more people

to read my books.

What inspires you to write about African spiritual traditions

through fiction?

So you know what is interesting is that I feel

like the spirits chose me.

Like it didn't feel like I had a choice.

It was like, at the time, the first time I wrote my first book,

Shala Waters, I was the editor in chief of heart and soul magazine.

So I was doing health and wellness for black people.

And this story just kept coming up.

It was like this woman, which I didn't realize was

Yemi, at first, was just sitting at the edge of my bed

telling me this story.

And I'm like, what is this?

What is this?

And for most of us who are daughters and sons of the diaspora,

I was taught that it was demonic, right?

To even look into it or ask about it or figure, you know,

read about it.

And so, but the more and more I did, the more it felt like home.

And the more it felt like I was with my ancestors.

And I'm like, well, who told me this was demonic?

Well, you were afraid of those?

I was.

Yeah.

Yes.

I mean, you know, like, Yemi, yeah, oh, yeah, you know,

they're intense, they're intense spirits.

So I guess I would say I have respect.

Yeah.

I have respect.

I was going to say, I know you spoke about it before,

but what got you into that deep dive of viewing things?

So it was actually Yemi, yeah, because my friend, Lee,

Thompson Young, who's passed away now.

Yes.

Rest in peace.

He was telling me about the Orishas and he told me that about

Yemi, yeah, that she watched, watched over our souls as our ancestors

went over the middle passage.

And she was a black mermaid.

And I was like, what a black mermaid.

Hold up.

What is this?

And so he told me all these stories.

He was a priest of Oshun.

And I am not in the religion, but I think one of the things that's really beautiful

for me about that is that I'm coming at it from a place of curiosity and of,

you know, research and, you know, like if I was raised in it,

I think it would just feel more like normal.

Like, oh, yeah, that's just what we do.

You know, and so I guess it's that curiosity.

When he was telling me about Yemi, I was so excited about that.

So when you tried to, when you published a book, how difficult was it at first to get a publisher?

We know Charlotte main publicity, but before that, was it very difficult telling somebody

to story and having them understand that?

So I didn't really go on that journey yet, but it was, it was 2020 and all of the things

were happening.

And I was like, you know what?

This is the time for the story.

And so I was like, I don't know how to do it, but I'm going to self-publish.

And as soon as I decided that, that's when Yadi,

an amazing friend who is a part of the Goddess Wisdom Council with me, my sister and Korah.

And basically Yadi was like, I went to the ocean, or the shower we still haven't figured it out.

So some water.

And I asked, like, Yemi, yeah, like what?

So she's the mother of us, all the mother of the ocean.

And she was like, you know, like, what should I need to do to be able to get this book out there?

And the answer was give it to Charlemagne.

At that time, he did not have his imprint yet.

Never even mentioned it to the body, nothing.

And so she was like, I need, and Yadi can tell things.

She knows things.

And so she was like, can I send it to Charlemagne?

I was like, sure, sure.

Within two days, he was like, do not sign with anyone else.

He was like, I'm putting this out.

I'll sit in the back yard, I read it on my laptop.

It was Kobe.

We were moving around and nothing.

And I'm just like, yo, this is amazing.

This needs to be in the world.

Because it's like racism, it's colorism, but then it's classism, but then it's magic.

Like it just felt very black.

As a author of these types of stories that people act like we have to shine away from,

how did the success of centers and everything they did in a box office make you feel for

it?

Like what your future is about to look like.

It made me feel great.

It was, it felt, I felt almost the same way as I did when I saw, like, the things that

you sent me in Brazil with these huge amazing floats.

If you all haven't seen that, see the floats of the Orishas from Brazil.

And to me, it just feels like, yes, people are opening up to it.

We're seeing like what these, how deep these stories go.

This religion survived underground for hundreds of years.

Because if people practiced it in the open, they would be killed.

They would be beaten whatever it was.

So it had to survive underground.

And so the fact that it did, and it's in us, like to me, I feel like when people read

my stories, it's a remembering because you can feel it in your bones.

You can feel it in your bones.

You're like, oh, wait, I know this story from somewhere.

But where?

Why do you think people are reconnecting with the ancestral spirituality?

Oh, because it's time.

I mean, those motherfuckers are eating babies.

You know, you see, oh my gosh, they're doing the spiritual things to give them power.

We know that we have our own.

And I feel like that connection to me, I know as soon as that came out for me, as soon

as I read the files, I looked at my altar and I was like, I need to dust that shit off.

We have our own that's rooted in righteousness, though.

That's right.

We're not eating babies.

No.

Yes.

Thank you for the clarification.

No, it's rooted in righteousness in being a better person every day.

How important is it to connect to your ancestors?

Well, for me, it's non-negotiable.

I mean, before I was even really interested in this, I always would like talk to my grandmother

and grandfather and Lee now on the other side, but so many.

To me, it feels like that's a part of us connecting to our wisdom because they're a part

of us.

And then, you know, there was this one time that I did Ayahuasca in Peru and my ancestors

came to me and they basically told me that you are the living blood.

You are the one that can exact change in this world right now.

And because I think, you know, for me, I would look to them, like, venerate them.

Like, there's so much better than me, but they're like, you're the one that's in the world

that can make the changes.

We can give you, you know, the suggestions, but you're there making the changes.

I would just want to connect with their ancestors, right?

You see how you were called.

You didn't know what was happening at first, right?

You said, you know, we've always, it's always been said that it was demonic or something

like that.

I heard you for a while, but once you really, like, just embraced it, you know, it was

powerful.

It was an impact that it had on you.

How does one get there?

Because I haven't done Ayahuasca, I do shrooms.

And that brings me enlightenment and clarity when I'm, you know, looking for certain answers

that when I feel like I'm stuck in a place, but I also heard you have to be called to do

a Ayahuasca as well.

That's not something that you just go hell-fun doing.

Yes.

You know, it's a whole thing.

It's totally different from shrooms, you know, although I get clarity with that too, but

how do you connect with your ancestors?

It's so easy.

You have a picture of your grandma.

Just look at her and talk to her like she's here.

And to me, that's, I start with the ones that I knew in life because then I feel like

I can have that type of conversation.

And I'm getting all emotional because I'm thinking of our grandmothers.

Amazing, amazing women.

We call it Baba was our Polish grandmother and then Granny was our petition grandmother.

So, and just talking to them, like they're here.

And sometimes, you know, imagination is really important in your spirituality because sometimes

you can feel like, oh, I'm imagining that I can hear them talking to me, but there's

no way go with the imagination.

Now, I had an experience very similar to that when I shrewd and me and my, I have a little

sister.

She's 11 years younger than me.

Yeah.

And we were hugging.

She was shroomed.

She was shrooming too.

And we were hugging and we were in my, my home, right?

But it was like we went through time and we were hugging.

I was my mother.

She was me.

And then I was my grandmother and she was my mother.

And then I was her and she was me, but she was telling me that it was okay.

Like, I didn't know what it was.

I wasn't afraid of it.

I just didn't know.

I wanted to go back and I wanted to, because I wanted to talk to my grandmother.

I lost my grandmother at a very young age.

I was her favorite.

And she was mine too.

And I just had so many things to ask her before she left is my mom's mom.

And I was, I just, I wanted to get back to that moment, but I don't want to have to shroomed

and do it all the time.

Because shroom is nasty.

My stomach was hurting.

And then you'd be high too long.

But, but that one part, like I was really, really happy to, to have connected with her.

But like I said, we were going through time, but I wanted, I want to be able to do that without

all that, like being high.

Like I want to be able to do that.

Well, the beautiful thing about that is that once, once you have done something like,

and some people don't need anything at all to connect with that, right?

But once you have done shrooms or ayahuasca, you can connect to that part of yourself that

has been in that place, but whether it's through meditation or just, you know, allowing

yourself to move back into that space and, and, and, and really get back into that place.

Because when you think about it, it's, it's like, it's like your mind getting out of

the way.

Yeah.

You're moving through your heart or through your, it's more of an embodiment, and then

where is this journey taking you?

Right.

So that's, and I feel like it, that's a part of these books, these books are like that.

They're, they're a journey.

Like if you and when you read this, it is, it is a journey, and you'll feel that.

Speaking of, oh, shun, for the, I'm not saying the name of the book, but the third one that's

coming out on Black Provincial Publishing next year.

So oh, shun is the, uh, orisha of the sweet things in life of honey, and I brought gifts

for you all from my sister's Loma farm.

So she's a beekeeper, um, and honey.

And so, uh, these are hand poured candles that, um, oh my gosh, yeah, they're, you're going

to be addicted.

I'm sorry.

No, my wife loves those.

Yeah.

She does.

I'm bringing her one.

What does, what does Oya represent in the wind on her tongue?

So Oya represents transformation, power.

From me, it was the energy of the, the, the quote unquote, angry black woman and going

deeper into that trope and seeing what is there.

And as I did, it was like, oh, no, she's just so fucking powerful that that's how people

experience her.

So I have the story of her coming into her power.

So she's younger.

And, and so it's, it's, you kind of see where the anger comes from.

How, you know, she was treated a lot of the characters within the book, um, Marie Lavaux,

Mary Ellen Pleasant.

They're all people.

So those are, um, historical figures.

And they were demonized, women who were demonized and they did amazing things in this world.

And I was, you know, for, for me, I was like, how come I didn't learn about them in school?

And it's really, I mean, I think a big part was that they were, um, voodoo and priestesses,

both of them.

And, you know, voodoo has been demonized.

And these women, if you look up what Mary Ellen Pleasant, she, like, owned half of San

Francisco, a black woman, started the Bank of California, which is Wells Fargo.

And I mean, she, she was a beast.

And now she, I guess also was known as the civil rights leader of, of California.

And it's, it's like, how did I not learn about her?

I'm glad you did that because, you know, like you said, all your struggles with controlling

her power, right?

But it is meant to symbolize what black women struggle with in everyday life.

And the thing always, you know, tell black women, like, you know, they say, I don't want

to be looked at as the angry black woman.

What if you are angry?

Your therapist always tells you to feel your feels, right?

So why not lean into that if that's how you're feeling in that moment?

Yeah.

Well, it's because there is that whole trope about it.

And it's like, oh my gosh, am I falling into that trope?

But it's really is like, yes, feel your feels, express them.

And that is a part of us remembering who we really are.

And that's not, we're not always angry, right?

Like that's not, yes, we're angry because there's fucked up shit that's happening.

But we are a people who know how to get in touch with our joy, no matter what we are

going through.

And so yes, we can be in our joy.

We can be on our deep spiritual being.

And you know, for me, having a black mother is one of the most blessed experiences that

I can ever have because of how deep her compassion is.

And you know, I go out into the world after that.

And I'm like, whoa, this world is like, I'm going back to my mama.

That's why it's so crazy.

Like when people had a conversation about how black women should deal with and treat each

other.

And they're always like, we should be so much more kind to each other.

I think it's crazy that you even have to talk to, especially intergenerationaly, so

you even have to say that because it's like, what type of love and or not did you not

come from?

Because like, why don't you feel that for a person that is right there with you?

And that's how you were brought up and you were born.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like in your household, that's what you're giving.

Even on the worst day, like, why do you have to be taught that when you get back into

the world?

Yeah.

Well, not everybody.

And there's so many people who weren't taught with that same type of love.

So it is, right?

Like it is a lesson once you get out into the world.

But everybody's household is not, you know, loving either.

You know what I mean?

Because it's generational trauma, you know, that actually weighs heavily in people's

house.

And a lot of women are able to teach their daughters how to love because they weren't

loved or that.

You know what I mean?

It just goes back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you, when Black women read this book and they look at all your right, how do you talk

to them about, even if that trope comes, how they still stay in their like power and not

like, because once it comes, you're then trying to fight it and then you forget all about

who you are.

Right?

So how do you talk black women through that?

Yeah.

Well, all of my books are a love letter to black women, right?

So these, these are just like, it's, it's really like when you read it, it's like, I

see you.

I see you.

And so it's kind of just sticking with it, right?

Like if you are feeling angry, okay, what am I angry about?

Sometimes even saying that to yourself out loud, what am I angry about?

That helps because it might be like, oh, dang, I'm just angry because that person cut

me off.

And then, then my mind is starting to think of all the other things I'm angry about because

I already got angry up from one thing.

And so, you know, talking to ourselves helps and, and I feel like just really continuing

to learn ourselves, allow ourselves to be the main character in the story because we

know all of us want to give and give and give to everyone.

And so it's like really like, okay, if I'm the main character, what is it that I need

right now?

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Segregation and the day integration at night.

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own roles.

We didn't worry about what went on outside, it was like stepping on another world.

Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together, but not everyone was happy

about it.

You saw the KKK?

Yeah, it was dressed up in that uniform.

The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

Charlie was an example of power.

They had the crush in.

From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's place.

A story that was nearly lost to time.

Until now, listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast.

It's the new me, and it's the old them.

Everybody's on edge, and the old Jenny's different to this.

This woman's history month, the podcast, if you knew better with Amber Grimes, Spotlight's

women who turned missteps into momentum and lessons into power.

I think coming out of where I came from, I'm from the Bronx, I think I grew up really

poor.

I didn't know that then, because I very much used my creativity to romanticize life.

And I'm like, my mom did a really good job of like, you step back and you're like, whoa,

I don't know how we made it.

So a lot of my life was like, built out of like, survival to get to the next place.

Like, my drive, my like, tunnel vision of like, I gotta be better, I gotta achieve this,

was off the strings of like, I want to make a better life for us.

If you knew better, brings real talk from women who've lived it.

Unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything.

And listen to if you knew better with Amber Grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast.

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be.

So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

I feel sometimes that I'm now listened to, I would just want you to listen to me more

often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success.

Listening is a form of love.

And resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being, it sounded

out together.org, that sounded out together.org, brought to you by the ad council, I'm Pivotal.

I'm Anna Navarro, and I'm a new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro.

I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community

and around the world, because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and

asking what the bleep is going on.

I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey

Epstein in 2018.

These victims have been let down time and time again, for decades and decades and decades

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I wanted to bleep with Anna Navarro as part of the Microtuda Podcast Network, available

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I say I got to do laundry, I'll be like, what am I anxious about, and I'll say it out loud.

And then sometimes it'll just be like, oh my gosh, I'm anxious, because I think that

I'm going to look crazy when I go on this show, or once I say it out loud, I'm like, that's

silly.

Kind of talking to myself is if that's the inner child speaking their insecurities.

What traditions did you discover or find out about that you feel like as a community,

we forgot about we don't do.

Exactly.

For me, one thing that I have done with my sister and with a few of our friends, we read

the book, The Conjuring of America, which was actually very similar to the Wind on

her tongue, it was like the real version, like she was, she talked about Marie Levoe

and she talked a lot about herbalism and how black people, like they're the ones who brought

in all of the herbal medicines, right? So they had the medicines that worked. And I was like,

wow, I feel so disconnected. Like if I walk into a forest, I don't know what any plant is, right?

And so what we did it, we got all of our friends together and once a month, we learned something

that our grandmother's taught us. And so we've learned spiritual baths, we've learned how to make hot

sauce, we've learned all kinds of different things. And so I think community and gathering and

teaching one little thing. I mean, when I went to South Carolina, oh my gosh, have you guys gone

to the African American Museum? No, I haven't yet. They don't care about black people.

Yo, I really do. Yo, it's so good. It's so good. And one of the things that I learned that I,

I mean, it's not going to be a spoiler. I did put it into the new book, but was about seeking,

which I didn't realize. So the Galagichi have this practice called seeking where children from

like seven to 11, they go out into the forest alone for days until they have a vision.

And when they, when they have that vision, they come back with that vision. So they have to know

what plants you can eat. They have to know what plants cure things. So by seven, these children

are out there knowing, knowing, and I was like, what? I had a similar thing in shallow waters

where, because I knew indigenous children did that. And so I had put that in shallow waters.

I had no idea that the Galagichi did that. I learned a lot. What called you to childhood? I remember

when you hit me and said, you want to go down there, like to do research for your third book, like,

what, what, what called you to the Holy City? So it was the, the third book, which is about

ocean. I'm not going to say the name. So it takes place in Buford and St Helena. And so I was like,

well, you know what? I've never been there. I was like, I need to kind of feel the land, the earth.

When I got down there, the trees were talking to me. Absolutely. I had never, ever seen trees that

look like that with the moss hanging down. It was amazing. And so when I was there, I learned that,

you know, all of the money that the enslaved people made for the south was through rice,

indigo, and cotton. And all of these skills, they brought the enslaved Africans over who had

those skills, who knew how to do the rice in the, in the swamp land, specifically picked them.

They weren't just grabbing random people, like, yeah, exactly. So they're like, okay, you know how

to do this and then took them. And it's, it was, I was mind blown, like in so many different ways.

I did a tour with this woman called the grave woman. Her name is Joelle. And, and so she took me to

a rice field where they're also like, you know, just make sure there's, when you're walking,

there's no snakes. Oh, let me tell you. Let me tell you. We walked by a alligator, the people in the

south are not scared of alligators. They're not scared. Like they walked by like it was nothing.

And I was like, what? I hate when people from the south say that. Like it's not normal.

I was horrified. And they were like, the, the father, the girl's father was like, yeah,

we used to swim with them. Oh, it's like, oh, I never did all that. Yeah.

They were black. They're black. Oh, wow. They're black. They're not scared. Like not. They're like,

of the land, like the Galagichi. So with the Galagichi, they were somewhat isolated in certain

islands. So they were able to keep so much of their traditions. And, and so, yeah, it's like,

you're saying that alligators was black. No, that's why you got to go to the international

African American. No, I am. My God. No, no, no. The Galagichi, the people.

Yes, man. Lena pool got her on a 21 day T detox.

I know. I'm on day number one. Don't get it twisted.

No. I was day three. You just started yesterday. No, I went Sunday.

And I started Sunday. But you're a high yesterday. I'm letting it go slowly,

but surely, you can't just change over night.

What are you doing the fast for?

Just for like, she don't know.

Health and wellness, you know what I mean?

Like I want like, I want to go on that holistic journey

of health, like my diet is messed up.

You know, I want to be able to kill the cravings

that I have for weed, you know what I mean?

But it's not just weed, it's just even what I consume.

You know what I mean?

What I'm watching, what I'm listening to,

what I wake up on my phone, go to sleep more on my phone.

I wake up angry sometimes and I realize this

because of what you watched before you went to sleep,

you know, my dreams are crazy.

Like, and not all the time, but a little bit too frank

with me, I'm 34 years old, I'm not.

I got to be a little too frequent for all of us.

You know what I'm saying, yeah, you know,

but it's just a different way of living, you know,

optimal health.

I want that and I want that for my kids too, you know.

And my husband, like I really, really want that

for my family.

And if you can, if you can be, you know,

there, we already got everything we need here, right?

To heal ourselves.

I want to be able to heal my family, you know what I'm saying?

I want to be able to do it and I want my kids

to be able to heal their kids.

So you're sick of yourself, basically?

Not sick of myself, shut up.

No, but that's important.

That's important.

And my sister was just telling me that there is a line

in the Bible that in many Bibles that has been taken out of

where it says to heal yourself, all you need to do is fast.

And it's taken out, like she showed me one Bible where it was

in and another one where it's like taken out.

I can't tell you which, someone will be able to tell you

which line it is, but I can't tell you.

I want a lot of churches though.

I mean, they do fast together in the church,

but I know in my church, like they, you fast thing is kind of

like what Jess is kind of talking about, where it's like,

you take that time of just discipline and like in those moments,

you like talk yourself through things and just have some

real like hard moments that make you change after the fast

happening.

And it's very challenging.

Even in my 30, like it's very challenging.

Because fastened is not just about like not eating what you want.

It's really not when not watching the shows, you like not talking

to the people, you know, no sex.

No, like it's very strict.

There's a very strict way to discipline yourself, you know,

you're going to no sex for 30 days?

What?

What?

Oh, she married to a Mexican house.

You know, I'm sad, I'm evil.

You do, you do have to do no sex when you, there's a whole

facet you have to do before you do.

I was good too.

Yeah, we had to do three weeks.

Yeah, we had to do three weeks eating clean.

Yeah, no sex.

No sex.

Even if you marry, like even if you marry a child's

girlfriend, yes, yeah, got you.

And you know, the as far as like guiding people through things

like that, with the, with the goddess wisdom council that I'm

a part of this group with me, my sister Yadi and this woman

named Kora, we take people on retreats.

Shawman has supported that in so many ways because I want to

basically create spaces where women of color, people of color

can come and experience a beautiful space where all you have

to think about is your healing.

Yeah.

And we have monthly calls called the leap.

And so it's kind of like a community that is more of like,

you know, people who can meet once a month and we do like group

coaching with them.

And then we're about to start a mastermind where if a legacy

mastermind, and that can be where if someone has like a project

that they've been thinking about.

So to me, that's where fasting comes in.

Because sometimes you can't even see what it is that you want

to do.

And it's like, well, what is the legacy?

What is the legacy that I want to leave behind?

And so if you do some fasting, then this clarity comes.

Because only you know that you're the only one who got that

call.

And you know, if it's, if it's fuzzy, yeah, it's the purpose

thing right now, right?

Like, you don't know what it is.

And I thought that was like a bad thing to not know your purpose.

You know what I mean?

But, yeah, I can't, I can't see it as foggy.

That's why I want to stop doing a lot of things that I'm doing

to get the clarity for it.

And sometimes our purpose is just as simple as to love, right?

Like that's, that's one of my purposes.

I know that is one of my purposes is to love deeply,

to love the people around me deeply.

And also I feel like a part of my ministry is black women.

Like I just love black women.

And I feel, you know, just thinking of my daughters,

and I love my son as well, of course.

But just thinking of, like to me, if black women are healed,

like it's, that's why even with like micro loans,

if you give it to black women,

you know that the whole community is going to be served.

Because they're not going to just take care of themselves.

They're going to take care of the people around them.

Can we talk about the sacred Trinity?

Because that's what this book series represents.

The shallow waters was the mother.

The wind on our tongue is the daughter,

and the next book will be the Holy Spirit.

But tell me what is the sacred Trinity?

Yes, the sacred Trinity from most people

is the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost, right?

And so within my books, I don't want to tell too much

about what's happening in the third one.

But I have the mother, the daughter, and the Holy Spirit.

So I have the mother, which is Yamaya.

She is the black mermaid, right?

The mother of us all.

And then the daughter, who is Oya, so she is the daughter

in the flesh.

And then I have the Holy Spirit, which is going to be ocean,

which is the sweet things in life.

The muse, the artist.

And the daughter of three waters

within the Cuban practice of the IFA religion.

So when the enslaved Africans were dropped off

at different parts, places in the Americas,

they, different parts of the religion sprung up.

So in Cuba, in Brazil, right?

So in Brazil, it's condomble in Cuba.

It's San Thorea, right?

Lucumi, IFA, right?

Like there's many different versions,

but it's all from IFA.

And so within Cuba, if you're a daughter of Yamaya and Oshun,

they call you the daughter of two waters.

And usually you're only a daughter of one Oresha.

So when I was thinking of these books, I'm like, oh,

but there's three of them.

There's three of them.

And I was like, it's a daughter of three waters,

because Oya is a storm.

There's rain, transformation.

She is powerful.

And so that's really where that Holy Trinity came in.

And I'm super excited.

I'm so excited.

I've been calling my dad every morning early

and been reading him like chapter by chapter.

And he's an anesthesiologist, right?

So I always think of him as super analytical

and scientific.

Oh my gosh, he's helping me so much.

Why are you father in particular?

So he was, I had sent it to him and he was like,

I can't see it too well right now.

Like he was having a hard time seeing it.

And I was like, well, I read the book to my sister,

Ivana, who's back here, who is my ebeji, my twin.

And I always reach, like she's the one

who I usually read the book to.

She gives me the feedback.

I know which way to go.

If she gets a feeling of what's going to come next,

she tells me, and you know, you've written books.

Have you guys written books?

Yes, yes, just as we're one,

so that we pair every book through.

Yes, so you know, it's a process.

It is hard, like as far as like sticking to it,

writing a full novel, right?

And so to me, I think of them as like kind of like infants.

And so it's, it have to be really careful

who I share my words with, because someone might say something

that feels like a stab.

And then I'm sitting and I can't write for the rest of the day,

right?

And I did say I was sensitive, right?

You did.

And so I'm super careful with who I share with.

And so I was like, I am going to call my dad and read this to him.

And he has helped me because all of them,

this next one takes place in 1909.

And so he's helping me stay true to that time.

Like, well, would they would have said that during that time?

Did they have a toothbrush, right?

And I'm like, oh, I didn't even look, right?

And then I saw that, you know, only the elite had toothbrushes

during that time.

And so I know how long did the third book actually take?

To write, yeah.

It did not take long, which was interesting because the way I did it,

which was very different from the other ways,

was that I woke up early, early in the morning

and just wrote a little bit every day.

And so I would say I started writing around November.

And now it's March, right?

And so it was really, I would say, the quickest one,

even though I felt like I didn't feel like I was writing a lot,

because it just felt like I'd wake up in the morning,

write some, and then go throughout the day.

I love, you know, the daughter through all the series.

What do you, when it's all said and done, right?

Like, what do you want these books to do to people?

Not just how do you want it to be received,

what do you want them to do to people?

I want people to feel transformed and go out

and do what they came here to do in this world.

And I know that might be a big tall order,

but I do, I want that to be the inspiration.

And I went to go see like a sneak performance of Dreamgirls

that's going to be coming on Broadway.

The way that made me feel, oh, I would be so happy

if my books made people feel that way,

because I sat there, my cousin Elis is in it,

and I sat there, and it was the first time

I felt unworthy of sitting in an audience seat.

Really wow.

Y'all, when it comes out, when it comes out,

y'all have to see it.

It's so good.

And so I feel like that type of artistry,

I hope that my book can do that,

and I would love for the IP to turn into movies TV plays.

And so it is, yes, from your lips to go to your lips.

Yeah.

Well, if you haven't picked it up,

pick up the paperback release, the Wind and Hardtongue.

And go get shallow waters too,

shallow waters is the mother.

Okay, the wind on her tongue is the daughter.

Tell them about your sister's, she's a beekeeper,

tell them about the bee farm.

Yes, yes, it is.

I know.

She's a beekeeper, that's interesting to me.

Like that.

That is very interesting to me, because it's very true.

Very true.

It should be interesting to you too,

because when you own a book and listen,

and then bees come, I've been to the farm.

Yeah.

It's a pleasure for us.

His wife loves the canvas, what do you want to know?

Well, well, first of all, how did you get into being

a beekeeper?

How did that happen?

Can we get another mic?

Yeah, hold on, we'll get you another mic,

and you can sit down and everything.

Yes.

Like that is very important to me,

to keep people don't eat.

It is.

Pay attention.

Is your bird, do you ask me to move it?

Yep, absolutely.

We'll put it right there.

Yep.

Yep.

And then what do I, just, I'm going to give you a mic.

I'm going to give you a mic.

Thank you so much.

Absolutely.

So how did you get into being a beekeeper?

Yeah, so my husband and I and our two daughters lived

in Harlem, and we decided to move out to Palisades, New York.

And at the same time, we found a six acre farm.

And we also saw a documentary called More Than Honey,

which talked about the decline in honey bees.

So we wanted to revive the property,

as well as sort of help the bees at the same time.

And so we started keeping bees.

And we became obsessed.

We started loving it and learning

more about what they do for us in the world.

We thought we could help them, and they can help us.

So it's sort of a synergetic relationship.

For anybody out there, it's against the law.

This one's a, it is against the law.

If there's a honey bee hive, and you kill it,

you're going to jail.

I don't want to kill it.

I mean, that's what's happening.

You're going to jail.

I know this.

Yes.

No, yeah.

Listen, if you have a bee hive, this call me.

She'll come get it.

She literally can go in, get the hive,

and then put it into one of the boxes.

I don't know if you still do that, but it's, she's gangster.

Yeah.

How many times have you been stung?

I'm sorry, yes.

I know it's okay.

These are how many times have you been stung?

Yes, because I'm curious.

It's amazing.

A lot, a lot, but bees are so amazing.

Even the venom is medicine.

So any time I get stung, I'm like, OK,

it actually helps with arthritis.

And it's also been tested to help some certain breast

cancers.

So every time I get stung, I'm like, OK, this is medicine.

And also the honey is medicine, the populist is medicine.

I mean, everything about the bee is medicine to us.

Yes, we need them.

Yeah, I was going to actually what

was the importance of the work that you do in the space

with the bees, but here in the healing part of it,

do you have people that come to the farm for that specifically?

I don't, because it's not open to the public,

but we do have community time where we will have a farm

to table dinner to benefit our Palisades Library.

And if there are people that I know that want to reach out,

I would do it.

I would have them come to the farm.

Go look up LamarFarms.com.

Yes, LamarFarms.

One quick, did you ever see the movie Beekeeper?

Oh, yes, I did.

So I was watching it.

And I love Jason Statham and Felicia, for sure, by the way.

The movie is great, right?

So he was a beekeeper in the movie.

And I was talking to somebody I know.

And I was telling them, yo, he, because they

was joking about him always like having a job, like,

because he kills and everything.

But he was protecting the bees, right?

And Felicia Rashad had a farm.

And so they was all like, no, yo, it's just a movie,

but I'm kidding.

I'm like, no, he was protecting the bees

because the bees are for healing.

Like, every part of the bee, even the venom, everything,

like you just said, I was explaining that, right?

I know about the breast cancer part,

but I did know, like, arthritis and the bones.

It helps with, you know, sickness.

And you can try to tell me I was lying.

I'm like, yo, for real to be like one of the bones.

Because you always lie here.

It's not because of this bee thing.

You don't blame it.

I don't blame that time.

I don't blame that time.

I don't blame that time.

Yeah, because people don't understand, you know what I just

think, you know, oh, it's a bee kill it, you know, uh,

no, like these bees are medicine.

Yes.

And it's kind of part of what Anita was saying.

It's like, we've forgotten how to connect with the land

and being a part of that, you know, beekeeping

is helping me connect with the land

and healing that the land has for us.

It's all here for us.

Thank you.

Just explaining there's between massage candles

and beeswax candles.

So our massage candles are made with shea butter.

It's made with a special mix that you can put on your skin.

And you just heat it up and put it on your skin.

It's also, it's so sexy.

You light it and like let it melt and then you blow it out

and then you could pour it either on yourself or your partner.

Yeah, the regular beeswax candles actually beeswax

when they're burned is also medicinal.

They act as an air purifier.

So it releases negative ions into the air,

connects to the positive ions, which is like just allergy,

allergens, and just bring them down out of the air.

So that's the regular beeswax.

And then on the website, you have honey,

but then you have raw honey.

It's all raw honey.

All raw honey.

OK, all raw honey.

OK.

And you got salt and body oil.

So we go order from you.

So I ain't got to go to store get honey anymore.

I go order from you.

This is a candle.

This is the beeswax candle that this one, Anita brought.

Which one I know one's.

I did.

This is our best seller wild mountain honey candle.

So this has like a very strong honey set.

So yeah.

And Jess, tell her your daughter's name, Jess.

My daughter's name is Marley.

Oh, my God.

Are you serious?

Oh, my God.

That's why Lola and Marley.

Lola and Marley.

Oh, I love it.

Yeah, it's OK.

So this is mine, right?

This is nice.

This is yours.

I should just go take some of that.

We got one for all of them.

We got one for all of them.

I knew that bees were important.

You knew them.

I want to make sure Lord was going to be here too.

Thank you so much for joining us, ladies.

Go get shallow water.

Go get the wind on her tongue, man, available.

Both of them in the Hawkeye van people back here.

Miss Bonham is Anita Colpax.

Thank you so much.

It's the Breakfast Club.

Good morning.

Oh, no.

Yes.

Every day, I wake up.

Like your ass, the breakfast club.

You know, I finished all y'all done.

In the middle of the night, Sasuke awoke in a haze.

Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.

But was on his screen.

Would change Sasuke's life forever.

I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.

And immediately, the mask came off.

You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home.

That's your husband.

Listen to Patrial Season 5 on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

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When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club

owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.

Segregation and the day integration at night.

It was like surfing in another world.

Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero?

Charlie was an example of power.

They had to crush him.

Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and Visit Myrtle Beach.

Listen to Charlie's Place on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

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It's the new me, and it's the old them.

This woman's history month, the podcast,

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Spotlight's women who turned missteps into momentum

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My tunnel vision of I got to achieve this

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If you knew better, brings real talk from women

who've lived it, unpacking career pivots,

relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts

that changed everything.

Listen to if you knew better with Amber Grimes

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Babes, what are you doing?

What?

I'm just mowing the lawn.

No, it's blazing hot and dry out here.

Don't you remember?

Smokey Bear says.

Avoid using power equipment when it's windy or dry.

Where'd you learn this?

Oh, it's on smokybear.com,

with many other wildfire prevention tips.

Right, thanks, honey bear.

Because remember, only you can prevent wildfires.

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I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast,

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I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues

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Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues

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They just this department through

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