INTERVIEW | Make Money by Turning Content Into a Real Business, feat. Jake Polino

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Yo, what's going on, everybody?

Welcome back to The Travis Makes Money Podcast,

which our mission to help you make more money today on the show.

I have a friend of mine, Jake Polino.

Jake has been doing social media for quite some time.

I'm going to turn into a content creator,

and then end up monetizing his own personal passion,

which is sneaker collecting of all things,

and is the co-founder of a shoe brand called Kizzo,

that he launched back a couple of years ago.

And then he's always just putting out a bunch of crazy good content on social.

So I was like, Jake, come on, let's talk a little bit more about the business side of things.

So, Jake, what's up, man, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me on.

So, first job at 18.

What was that job?

The first job that I had was a delivery driver

for a local restaurant that used to be in my town.

I grew up in a suburb of Boston.

So, most of my life, my early adolescence, 14, 15, 16,

I was selling shoes to make my money,

and I didn't get a real job until 18.

And that was still a part-time, like two days,

three days a week type of thing.

I only had, I think, three jobs in total

that would count as like a W-9.

Before I got into content and all that stuff.

So, yeah, first job at 18, first real job, at least.

Did you go to college?

Yes, but I'm gonna drop out.

So, I started, and I actually dropped out

with one semester left, which still kind of,

it hurts me to this day a little bit,

because I'm like, I couldn't have finished it,

but it started to overlap when my content started to really take off.

So, I saw a good opportunity to like go full steam ahead on content,

and I was like, I don't think the extra semester

and the degree is really gonna change that much for me.

Like, I'm not really gonna need it.

So, why, you know, make my life so so much harder

by trying to balance school on top of everything else

that I was trying to balance?

And I don't think it does.

I was going for an entrepreneurship degree.

Like, I learned everything I needed to know

through selling shoes.

So, I really, exactly.

Like, I learned better through doing things,

not through like homework, you know what I mean.

So, I didn't need it, I don't think.

Yeah, especially in a field like entrepreneurship, man.

It's like, it's almost like everything that you learn

in that context anyway is almost obsolete

by the time that you're graduating.

And now with the ubiquitous knowledge everywhere,

it's like, yeah, so much of this stuff

for free on the internet from people

who are actually like real practitioners

instead of just theorists sitting in a classroom

thinking about it, you know.

Exactly.

Yeah, YouTube University is, that's the best.

That's the best university there is, I think.

And now with AI and everything, I mean,

any question you could possibly have about business, AI

or YouTube will be able to solve it.

Like, I probably could go to all my college professors

and I would guarantee you that they wouldn't know

as much as the internet does.

They'd be like, oh, I'm not really exactly sure

how to handle this thing.

And every business is so different.

It's not like a one-size-fits-all thing.

So, I don't know.

I didn't really see a great value in it.

I don't think if you're not going to be a lawyer

or a doctor or something like that,

I don't see the need in it really.

Yeah, it's becoming less and less valuable over,

even the last like decade, really the last two decades,

three decades, like the more expensive school got,

the more crazy student loans got.

And then the fact that having a bachelor's degree

was basically like having high school diploma.

It's like, well, now you gotta go get a minister's

to differentiate yourself from the employees.

Yeah, the goal long is always moving.

Yeah, exactly.

It's crazy.

And then the starting salary of the college graduate

only went up by like 10% in the same two decades

where the cost of college, like 3x'd, you know what I mean?

So, it doesn't make sense.

Same thing with like the housing market and whatnot.

Like it just doesn't make sense to finish college

the same way that it doesn't make sense

to buy a house right now.

Like, it's just, it's weird.

So you mentioned content started taking off in college.

What, what, what did you start making content about?

So content, my very, very first pieces of content

were like basketball skits.

So that's how I started on TikTok.

I made a skit with my friend David about basketball.

We posted it to TikTok.

This is when TikTok was still new

and still like kind of cringey.

I don't know if you remember when everybody fought

trying to get onto TikTok.

They're like, well, I'm not gonna get that out.

Like that's for the cringey weirdos.

Basically, this was like right after,

right after it stopped being known,

what was it called musically?

Musically, yes.

I was on musically as well.

I was making content.

I mean, if you really wanted to go deep,

like I was making content in the seventh grade,

I had a vine page called Boston Basetrops

where I would post Boston sport edits to songs

or whatever to vine.

And I had 8,000 followers as a 13, 14 year old.

So that's really when I started

and that's when I kind of got the dream.

Like it was really my dream to do content.

So I'm more than happy to be doing it now as a living.

So.

So started off just doing basketball skits essentially.

Yeah.

Basically just basketball skits and stupid other content.

I would make random videos like any content creator

would make kind of memey videos, I guess.

Then I moved into cooking a little bit.

I had a cooking video go viral

and then I started doing like DIY stuff.

I had a few videos that just like two million views,

three million views, the four million, whatever.

And they would like come every once in a while.

Like, you know, you get a home run every once in a while.

So I had a few of those.

And then I finally landed on the track of like DIY videos.

So I kind of leaned into that.

I would like die t-shirts and kind of upcycling stuff.

I'd take clothes and make them cooler, I guess.

And then it eventually snowballed into customizing sneakers,

which is really where my roots were.

Like I started doing custom sneakers when I was 18

and that business is just completely unscalable

and nobody respects it enough.

Like nobody wants to pay what these artists are worth.

So it's really hard to make your money's worth in that field.

So I kind of put that down, but then I got back into it

and I started making content with it.

And that's really where I made my claim to fame

was like the dying videos, the coffee die,

the road places, I customized shoes every day

for a couple months straight, different pair of shoes

every single day.

And then it got to the point where I'm like,

all right, I can't buy a pair of air forces every day.

I'm not making enough money off of this to be doing that.

So it transformed into like really once every three days.

But there was a point in time where I was cranking out

a new custom every single day.

And there was a lot of content to handle.

So when you say your content was taking off in college,

it was just you were getting more views

and you were actually starting to make money from it.

So my deal with my mom was if I could make $10,000

in a month, then I could drop out of college.

And the first month that I ever made $10,000,

it was kind of a fluke.

Like everything kind of happened at the right time.

I had like a few videos go viral.

So I got paid a couple thousand from TikTok.

I got a few partnerships.

So I got a couple thousand from that.

And I think it like it was like January of maybe 20,

20 or 21, one of those years where I got the first $10,000

and I just never signed up again for college.

Like it came time to like reapply for the second half of the year.

And I just like never entered the portal again.

I just kind of left it and they never emailed me or anything

to this day.

It kind of just like it just disappeared.

So yeah, I don't think they really gave any they didn't care.

You know, they didn't give my money anymore.

But who cares?

Okay, so monetization for creators is a hot topic

because I think what it's funny,

because when you're involved in this world,

you just have an understanding of what people

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What's the potential is for a certain page.

But I remember I was hanging out with the group of friends.

I think it was this past summer.

And there was somebody that we all went to high school with

that was making content and has started doing really well.

And one of my buddies said something like,

said something like,

I mean, I don't understand it at all,

but you know, I mean, there's probably probably richer

than all of us or something and said that.

And I remember like thinking about it and going like,

yeah, probably not.

He probably works at lows still.

Yeah, because you have 150,000 followers

and you get 25 million views a month does not

be anything over whatever the creator rewards are,

which in a lot of platforms are really underwhelming

especially the category that you're in, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I would say that it's a huge misconception

amongst most people.

I think most people would look at me

with my three million total followers across all pages

and say, oh, that guy's probably rolling in it.

He's rich, he can afford whatever he wants.

Meanwhile, you know, I'm somewhat comfortable.

I mean, you know, I'm still living by my means

and I'm not rich by any means.

I'm still driving a 2015 Lexus with 80,000 miles on it now

and paycheck to paycheck things.

It's tough for everybody out here.

But content creators are not nearly as loaded as people think.

It's not nearly as profitable as it was.

I think because it became oversaturated

and the TikTok shop ruined things

and Instagram ruined things.

There was a point in time where you could live off of

what you were making.

There was a point in time where most of my money was coming

from social media, but for most people

that's a very short lived thing.

It's like at most a year to two years of like

you're in the spotlight, you're making good money.

And if you don't transfer into something else,

you're gonna die because those views never last.

They go up, they go down.

There's months where you'll get views.

Like some of my videos nowadays get like two,

three thousand views where a couple of years ago

nothing I could post would go under a hundred thousand.

Like it was, it's a ridiculous drop

and it just happens to everybody

and they'll say, oh, you fell off,

but it's just, that's the natural cycle of things.

Like you can go really viral and then it's gonna go away.

There's very few people, like the very few select people

who just continue to be in the spotlight,

like the Kaisa Nats and the Mr. Beast,

like those really like grade A people

that almost become like celebrity level influencers.

But everybody underneath that, which is 99.99% of creators,

they're not making crazy amounts of money.

Some people make good money from their sponsorships.

I rarely do sponsorships and I don't get paid well for them.

So most of my money comes from Kizzo,

but I know other content creators

who are in different spaces such as fashion or beauty

or whatever, they get paid a lot more for their sponsorships

for some reason.

So there are certain fields that you can make

a really good living in, but it's a select type of person

that can really charge those numbers.

Like they're not just gonna give that out to anybody.

You gotta be the guy or girl that they want.

You have to fit the bill perfectly.

And it's hard to do that.

Yeah, and a lot of businesses have adjusted too

because they, I think they realized when influencer

marketing sort of came onto the scene,

they were throwing money at anybody who just demanded

whatever arbitrary price they wanted to demand.

Because the companies had no understanding

of what it looked like.

They just heard that Kim Kardashian made a video

about this T company and now that T company

has did $12 million in sales off of it.

So they're just like, yeah, whatever, we'll pay whatever.

And then all of a sudden they start paying

all this money to creators.

And then they're not saying this to me.

So they're not saying this to me.

The industry matures and then they go like,

oh, this actually isn't worth $5,000.

This might be worth $300.

You know what I mean?

And that affects everybody from the top down.

It also depends on like the platform

that you're really concentrated on.

Somebody who has $8 million on TikTok

might not make as somebody who might not make as much

as somebody who has $150,000 on YouTube.

Yeah, correct.

Or 50,000 podcast listeners.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, 100%.

Everybody's the value of the follower

is valued differently across platforms.

And you don't ultimately now,

like we just don't have any control over the distribution.

And every individual piece of content

is its own lottery ticket.

You know, like it doesn't matter

how many followers you have.

Like you said, you can have a bunch of followers

across your platforms and get a video with 2,000 views.

And somebody who just started yesterday

can get one with 10 million views.

It's each individual piece of content

is based on its own merit now.

Yeah, followers do not matter whatsoever anymore.

I don't believe like you've seen,

I've seen people with 10 million followers,

whatever, they're posting videos that get 200 views.

Like how is that possible?

It doesn't make sense.

And it's just strictly because everything

is algorithm based now.

It has nothing to do with if you follow somebody,

like people forget that Instagram,

there was a time where you only saw content

from people that you followed.

And if you wanted to find content

from other people you had to go to the explore page,

now you could just be scrolling

and you're gonna see random people

that you never saw before.

You really have no say in what type of content you see.

So the followers are arbitrary at this point.

And you really just need to be making good content.

Yeah, and the volume is so much greater

for the platforms and algorithms to sort through,

to serve to the audience.

So that's why best creative wins at the end of the day

because it's like, well, there's no limit

to the volume of potential content

that the algorithm can serve to any particular user.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter if they follow you

or they don't follow you.

You just have to continue putting out

the best type of content that you can create.

But I think, and the goal, no.

I think is something that you've done really well,

which is to take the brand that you've built

or take the audience you have created

and then build a scalable business brand

on the backend of that that can have its own legs

where you own distribution, you own audience,

you have an email list or a text list

and you can build something of value

with actual real enterprise value on the backend

of the traffic that you know how to gain

from the creative that you're putting out.

So tell me a little bit about the creation of Kizzo.

So Kizzo was created pretty much

because of what you just mentioned.

Like, you can make a lot of videos,

you can have a lot of followers, et cetera,

and be getting paid nothing from it.

At my peak, when I was getting 10 million views

on videos like regularly,

I was making almost nothing from those videos.

My biggest video to date was the coffee video

where I dyed coffee's, dyed Air Force ones

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That at 30 million views, I didn't get paid

a dime from that video, not a single dime.

And it continued like that for a long time.

I'm like, why am I making all of these videos with Nike's?

And I'm barely getting paid for them.

Not only am I giving Nike hundreds, literally,

hundreds of millions of views for free

and they're not even reaching out to me.

They banned me from buying Air Force One's actually.

I still hold the grudge to this day.

Wow.

But yeah, they never said a thank you.

Never sent me a pair of shoes.

Never said nothing.

Just all these views on their shoes forever.

And I'm like, why am I doing all this work?

I'm not getting paid anything from it.

It's not sustainable.

The only way I was able to survive was

because I was hosting a podcast on Twitch for complex

and they were paying me regularly every month.

And it was only $2,000 a month,

but I was living with my mom at the time still.

So I didn't need rent or anything

and 2,000 was more than enough.

So I was like, okay, what am I going to do?

And the best play was to create my own product.

And the best product for me was sneakers

because I love sneakers.

It's my passion.

It's been my number one passion since I was 12 years old.

I had years of experience customizing them.

I had millions of people wanting to buy these customs,

but then wouldn't want to pay the $250 price tag

that came with something simple.

Like for instance, I have this shoe right here.

This shoe is dyed three different colors.

So blue, red and the sole is yellow.

It faded a little bit.

They're a little bit ugly right now.

But something like that, I would try to charge somebody $200.

The shoes itself cost $100.

The dye, it takes me three, four hours.

So $200 sounds good,

but to a normal person, they might be like,

oh, the dye is only $5.

I'm not paying more than $110.

So I'm like, okay, I'm not making any money.

What's the plan?

And the idea was to create a shoe

that I could manufacture and scale.

So I could sell my designs to a wider audience of people.

And all of the content that I would be making

would be feeding that.

So there came a point where I just got away completely

from air forces.

And every single video I was doing had my shoes in it

instead of air forces.

So me and Zuki, Zuki's my business partner

who I started Kizzo with, he had the same story.

He was doing customs.

It's just not scalable.

You're spending eight to 12 hours on a custom

to make 150 bucks.

And you're not doing that many pairs in general.

So like you can't live off of that really

unless you're charging thousands per pair.

So we both came up with Kizzo

and kind of the rest is history after that, I guess.

Now it's just a matter of trying to navigate

and how to actually build a brand

because neither of us have done it and we're still learning.

And that's the fun part about it.

And that goes back to college.

Like nobody in college could have taught me

how to scale a sneaker brand globally.

Like we have to learn on our own.

But yeah, that was the play.

And that's what I tell every content creator to do now.

Like if they ever asked me for advice,

I say find a product that fits your niche,

find something you're passionate about.

Don't just throw some BS out there just to make money.

But find something that fits you,

fits your brand and you're proud of and sell that.

And I could not be more proud of Kizzo

and all of the shoes that we put out.

So it was really like a fairy tale ending.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's something that fires you up

and something that you're still passionate about doing

to this day, which is probably why the brand

has seen some success.

And then also being able to be able to leverage the thing

that you were already really good at

that most companies struggle with,

which is getting attention online.

Like how helpful has it been to be like a creator led company

just to get eyeballs on a brand that you created from scratch?

Yeah, I mean, that was the biggest thing.

I mean, if I didn't have the platform already,

like when we started Kizzo,

I think I had already two million on TikTok,

maybe a million on YouTube at the time.

Maybe not yet, I forget.

But millions of followers across socials.

So I had the platform already established

and that was a huge, huge key, obviously.

It's much, much harder to build something from scratch

and like to have, you have to have people trust you.

So they've been watching me for years, create customs.

So obviously they trusted me to create a shoe

and they would buy that shoe from me.

Like they trusted my opinion and my designs and whatnot.

So being a creator first is definitely

the biggest advantage that we had.

And we would not be where we are today

without the content that we were putting out with the shoes.

So yeah, it was definitely a huge, huge advantage for us.

What's your advice to somebody who's trying

to get started with all of this?

You know, that there is a stat I read recently

that the number one job that young people want these days

is to be a creator or to be a YouTuber or something like that.

I love that statistic.

Where do you recommend these people

that are just trying to get started with this stuff?

Where should they start?

Definitely TikTok.

TikTok is still, I think, one of the better platforms

just to begin on, like just to start making videos.

And the great thing about social media today is

it's the playing field is so level at this point.

You don't need a camera crew.

You don't need a bunch of high production.

You just need an iPhone.

Like if you just have an iPhone, you're good.

It doesn't even need to be a really new iPhone.

Just flip the camera around, start making content.

Just make as many videos as you can.

And as soon as you find something that kind of works,

like say you have one viral video or semi-viral video,

recreate that exact type of video

just in a different format.

And then you figure out what works and what doesn't work.

And you just try new things.

Just throw things at the wall until something sticks.

I always use the analogy of like darts.

So if you have a dart board and I give you one dart

and I say hit the bullseye.

Like how, what's your chance of hitting the bullseye?

Not very high.

But if I give you 1,000 darts

and you're gonna hit the bullseye once.

And I think it's the same thing with content.

It's free to create.

You can make as many videos as you want.

Make as many opportunities as you can to succeed.

And you will eventually succeed.

It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when

if you're doing things the right way.

Like if you're really paying attention

and you're like trying to create the best content

that you can and not just, you know,

because there is bad content.

And like I hate to say it,

but there are certain people

that just don't know how to make a video.

And they can make a million videos

and it's not gonna go viral

because their lighting is bad

or their sound is bad or their editing is bad.

Something like that, but it's not hard.

Like the stuff I've done,

everything that I've ever done on my phone,

I've recorded it, edited it,

and voiced it over in my phone.

In the native iPhone microphone,

I have no special equipment

other than the light and the stand

that this is being held on.

So you really don't need anything special.

The biggest thing is just doing it.

Like just get into it.

Just start making videos.

It's gonna feel embarrassing.

It's gonna feel stupid,

but eventually it will work if you stick with it

and it might take years,

but like anything else, consistency is key.

You just keep going, you persist.

You make videos every day.

You will eventually succeed.

So just really get the ball go.

That's it.

Yeah, it's funny because we can kind of exist

as creators in this silo of the world

where everybody's creating, you know,

because we just happen to meet

all these other people we're creating.

But then you get out of the real world

and you start realizing how many people,

especially like business owners.

This is the one that drives me insane.

Yeah.

That are still not putting stuff online.

And it's a blows my mind like,

though what we always say is every post

is a lottery ticket.

Yeah, it is.

The one of the differences is that it's free.

So like why are you not just post, like you said,

you can't just,

because I do have some people that I know

who just, they treat it like a check box.

They're like, okay, check the box.

I put something out today and it's like, okay.

That might work every once in a while

just to keep up consistency

and you want to make sure that you maintain momentum.

Sure.

What if you're doing that all the time

then you're probably just going to have 1,000 videos

that suck.

But like, if you put the time into consistency

and then consistently improving

at the thing that you're doing,

then it's just a matter of time

before one of those things does really well

and could quite literally change the trajectory

of your entire business

by just having one video go really well.

So, exactly.

A lot of the tickets just get out there,

get started and keep in the game for as long as you can.

Because, man, the risk to reward

is just wildly skewed in your favor.

It does not take, it's not that big of a risk at all.

The only thing you're risking

is 20 minutes of your time to do the video.

And beyond that, the reward, the potential reward,

if something takes off and does really well,

could quite literally change your life.

So, yeah, that's very easily.

Sitting on the sidelines, getting the game

and think, think us later

when you look back in five, 10 years from now.

Exactly.

Jake, I appreciate you coming on the show, man,

and sharing a little bit about what you got going on,

working people go to connect more with you

and learn more from what you got in the works.

So, my personal page is Jake Palino across all social,

so YouTube, TikTok and Instagram and Kizzo

is Kizzo Kicks on Instagram and Kizzo.Kicks on TikTok.

So, either one of those pages, they're both very connected.

So, if you find one, you'll find the other.

But yeah, those are the places that you can best keep up

with me and with Kizzo.

Love it, dude. Jake, thanks so much for taking the time.

I appreciate it.

Everybody else listening, remember,

money only solves your money problems,

but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems

with money in the bank.

So, let's solve that one first.

Here, it makes money podcasts.

Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time.

Peace.

Thank you guys.

Hi, I'm Alicia, and I'm Stacy,

and we make trashy divorces.

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