Interview Only w/ Megan Kate Nelson - The American West You Didn’t Get In History Class

Pulitzer Prize finalist and historian Megan Kate Nelson — author of the new book The Westerners: Mythmaking and Belonging on the American Frontier — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a fascinating conversation about how the story of the American West we all grew up with is largely a myth, and what the real history reveals about who actually built the country. Nelson explains that the dominant narrative was essentially invented by historian Frederick Jackson Turner in 1893, who argued the American creed was rooted in conquest and expansion — a framing that conveniently allowed white Americans to rally around westward expansion as a unifying project while papering over the uncomfortable realities of slavery and the brutal treatment of indigenous peoples.

She walks through her seven central characters whose stories reclaim that history: Sacagawea (who wasn't actually famous until the 20th century), biracial fur trader Jim Beckwourth, Hispana saloon owner María Gertrudis Barceló (whose Santa Fe establishment inspired the modern Vegas casino), gold miner and newspaperman Ovando Hollister (who believed in human equality and later moved to Salt Lake City to agitate against the Mormons), Northern Cheyenne chief Little Wolf, Canadian immigrant rancher Ella Watson, and Chinese immigrant Polly Bemis. Nelson reveals the most surprising research findings — including how digitized old Colorado newspapers helped her discover stories that had been lost for generations — and discusses how Hollywood created and popularized the caricatures of the West that still dominate pop culture today.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Megan Kate Nelson joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:30 What got you interested in the topic for The Westerners?

03:45 People still have a very entrenched idea of what the west is

05:00 The portrayal of the west has been improved in pop culture

06:45 Frederick Jackson Turner created the “myth” of the west

08:15 Turner argued the American creed was based on conquest & expansion

10:00 Turner’s narrative became the standard telling of American history

11:00 Western expansion papered over uncomfortable 19th century history

11:45 White Americans could rally around the west & avoid slavery

13:00 How did you get your research on the subjects of The Westerners?

13:45 Sacagawea wasn’t famous until the 20th century

14:30 Lewis & Clark was a core piece of context for the book

15:45 Most unique source material you found that filled in gaps?

19:00 Old local newspapers from Colorado were digitized, allowing discovery

20:15 Hollywood created and popularized caricatures of the west

21:15 Fears and hopes for the new “Little House on the Prairie" reboot?

23:00 How much did Laura Ingalls Wilder book create their own mythology?

24:00 White settlers received a great deal of help from the federal government

25:00 Transcontinental railroad enables the explosion of the cattle industry

25:30 Military deployed to protect white settlers, annihilate the indigenous 

26:45 Expansion wasn’t just an east-west story, it was also a north-south story

30:00 Vegas casinos inspired by Maria Barcelo’s Santa Fe saloon

32:30 The story of southern migration from Canada 

34:30 Timeline of the book is most of the 19th century

35:15 Role of Chinese workers/immigrants in the story of the west

37:00 Chinese workers came on a false promise, were trapped in their labor

40:30 Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act

42:00 The story of Ovando Hollister

44:00 Hollister believed in the equality of all people. Went from military to newspapers

45:45 Hollister moved to Salt Lake City & agitated against the Mormons

46:30 Stories of the Native Americans are finally being depicted better

47:15 The story of Little Wolf

49:00 Little Wolf was a great military strategist and leader for his people

52:00 Histories of the west were heavily shaded by original bias

53:00 Balancing objectivity with your personal bias when writing history

54:30 Connecting individual stories in history to larger movements & moments

55:30 How would improve school curriculum to honestly depict the west?

59:45 The west was fairly violent before law enforcement became normalized

1:00:45 Next project is the story of a Kiowa and Comanche raid on ranching town

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