Is Nico Hoerner Or Brice Turang The BEST 2B In The NL Central? Top 5 Rankings! | CHGO Cubs Podcast

Hey Chicago, what do you say it's the CHGO Cubs podcast is Tuesday, February 24th.

And we are live from the Xfinity Loft first class boys first class and shout out to Luke

Stuckmar because normally we're in a different studio and we go pantless but now our legs

are exposed and you're like hey make sure you wear pants and I appreciate the heads

up. I had to turn around. It's the first time I've worn pants in like three months

to work now. It's the playoffs. It's higher off season. It is nice to be in the Xfinity

Loft. It is first class. It's almost a private jet. What do they call it? Is it a G9? Is

that what the kids call it? The G9 G6? G6 is what it is. G6. I don't know what it's called.

G9. I've never planned it. G9 is better than a G6. I've never planned it. When those suckers

crash all the time I'd prefer the Xfinity Loft and the comforts of something like that

first class. All right we're going to talk about fun stuff today but I should point out

that running the ones and twos today is Sarah. Go Cubs. Yes. Even our Go Cubs is better

in the studio. I feel like these these are new microphones to us too. I feel like it's

do I sound better? Don't let the facts away. Look at it. We might have just taken the

old mics and made them look prettier but don't I don't know. This is a lot going on

here. Yeah. I like the purple. It's nice. Hey we got exciting stuff before we get into

the topics of the day. We of course have the trip is almost here. What are we 10 days

away now? Five shows away from Arizona. And it couldn't come at a better time. It's

so cold outside. It is stupid. Now I got a little more information on this spring

training trip. It is presented by our friends at Shady Rays. We leave next Thursday us.

We stay all the way through Sunday. I know I'm coming home late from that one. We got

a lot of stuff planned and it's all a la carte. There's still irony not some of the details.

We have Cubs games at Sloan Park. There's a socks game if somebody wants to a la carte

that. There is a bull's sons game going on in Phoenix that will be there. I believe

we're going to that as well. And then there is the golf outing which I found out is

that dobson ranch golf course in Scottsdale. I googled this. It's a pretty nice looking

course. It's okay. We're going to take down the people from DNVR and we're going to take

down the people from Phoenix and we're going to have our way with these teams. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't golf but I will. Just let you know. We're going to have some shots and I'll be honest

right now between the three of us. I have no integrity on the golf course. If I want

to take a mulligan, I will take a mulligan. You gentlemen's honor. When you say no

gentleman's honor with me. If I'm golfing and it's it's over underneath a cactus, I'm

not getting bit by a rattlesnake. I'm dropping on the fairway. So. So what's your

give me? What's your give me putt? Is it a cup snake? Is that based on the green? It's

it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. When you were saying we're going to take shots. I really thought

you're talking about alcohol for a second. I was like, Oh, we were we're been shots.

All right, let's go. Listen, in that heat, I can't do that. I've got to be careful with

that kind of stuff. But yeah, tops. It's right. You could still sign up. There's still

a couple spots, but they are going fast. So make sure you sign up today. Now if you want

to do that, the diehard deal is a great way to do it. And we have a diehard deal going

on because the NFL combine is going on. Brags and the boys and hoag and johns. They're

all down their car. I saw a car going down with a fresh haircut and his car is doing

videos while he's driving safe, you know, especially with the silver hair and old guy driving

doing videos while he's on the highway. I got to say, people who follow me, I've done

that before, but my car drive itself. So I'm safe. Okay. Carman, I don't think is I think

he's driving while he's filming. Carms probably driving himself. Right. Right. Right. And

anyways, 36 bucks for that first year, the diehard membership still comes with the free

t-shirt, still comes with the diehard card in all the credibility that brings. And then

of course, discounts on events and trips and things like that. So might be a good time

to do it. Hey, our guy near and is here live. I have a near and on a live show in quite

some time. So good to see near and back. Always here for the games. And our Corey's been

here, a regular in the off season. Vince Vince back in with the sicko check in. What's

up? Vince Craig Brindle. Everyone here. We have good. Good start. All right. So let's

get started on this. First, let's just recap a little bit of yesterday's game. Then

we'll get on to the best second basement. And if your life depended on it and you were

forced and you were Jed Hoyer and they said, okay, your family's life depends on it. You

must trade Pete Kramstrong. What are you getting back? Wow. What would you do? Because

everybody's tradable. There's always a price. There's no untouchable, right? There is

no untouchable. All right. We mentioned Jefferson, Rojas, guys. Yesterday on the podcast, we're

like, oh, wait a minute. You must have heard us. Jefferson, Rojas, exit V. Lo and we all

said, okay, everybody calm down. This is one of those overreactions of one or two games

at that time, three games, but the Cubs finally won a game. And Jefferson, Rojas, homerd

fell us in a bomb. Yeah. Is anybody starting to get the goose bumps for Mr. Jefferson, Rojas,

and what he could might mean to this team, even if it's at the end of the season. Absolutely.

I think, you know, we talked about Kate Horton coming up, PCA, Matt Shaw, the young guys

are here, right? We don't really have, we traded away on KC, Akantara's fighting for

a fourth outfield spot. We don't really have that top minus Jackson Wiggins. We don't

really have that premier guy down in the farm anymore, right? So you kind of, we talked

about you kind of want other guys to step up. And I mean, I know Rojas has been a top

prospect for a, but you want to see progress and you want to see him live up to the hype.

And the fact that like, listen, I've, I've only watched on like highlights, on like Twitter

and stuff like that. But the dude looks good. He looks like he's a major league hitter.

He really does, you know, he's in the ball hard. I love the home run. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm

really excited about him. Hopefully, I don't, he's not going to break camp with us, but

man, it's good to have not only insurance down to the farm, but yeah, absolutely, you

know, September call ups, those kind of things, you know, uh, trades happening. You know,

maybe he's the piece that helps you get somebody like a school ball or whatever. Um, absolutely.

I'm, I'm very excited about Jefferson Ross. Yeah, 180 miles per hour off the bat with

that home run. Uh, progress is a great word for it because look, we, we, we said it tongue

and cheek, but it happens every year, Luke, like there's always going to be the spring

training super hero, uh, that comes fans are going to fall in love with. And some people

might get a little delusional and try and push them on to the major league roster, Justin,

I'm going to agree with you. I don't think right now is the right time for a 20 year old

Jefferson Rohos, even if he does break throughout spring training and hits 375, I just think

the thing that's really refreshing about it is, as I mentioned yesterday, Jefferson Rohos

hitting well is good for the Chicago Cubs farm system. It's a guy that we know that's

already been on the list. It helps prop up and juice up a little bit of the guys at the

top end. You know, Jefferson Rohos could still be a one year, two years away. And that's

fine. You want to see him have success than carry it over to the minor leagues this year.

I'm a excited Luke that it's not no offense to them, but it's not gauge workman. It's

not Jake slaughter. It's not guys don't you speak ill of Taylor workman. It's just these,

these guys are, are those were all reclamation projects that had a little lightning in a bottle

and spring training. Some Cubs fans were willing to talk themselves into. Can they help

the Major League roster? No, you would never. I was printing tater shirts. I'm here for

the mashed taters. But no, I'm glad it's a 20 year old that looks like he could have a

future. And maybe it is with the Cubs in a year or two. I'm glad it's that kind of guy,

as opposed to that kind of guy Craig Brindle, who's always ready to trade for school bull, says

if Nico were not to be extended, he could be your starter at second base. Maybe not

that Sean. Next year. Okay. Or match else in the outfield. That's right. Rohos is second

base because there are some outfielders that might not be brought back next year. I have

heard him compared to as far as like what are expectations. I've heard people compare him

to Starlin Castro. Wow. So let's say this prospect turns out to be the next Starlin Castro.

You happy with that? That was in percent. Starlin Castro from the jump was a great hitter.

The guy, I mean, we thought he was going to be like the guy that gets, you know, thousands

of hits in his majorly career. You know, I know his career kind of tealed off a little

bit, but like, you know, we traded him. I'm sorry, we got like Ben Zobris was the guy versus

Castro. That was a trade off. Right. And we're not pretty well. But I don't think so in

Castro played his way out of Chicago. I think it was more like we're trying to build

a championship team, need versus whatever. I'd be thrilled that Rohos was star in Castro

because star in Castro was a great, great pure hitter. I felt like. Yeah. And the other

interesting part and really the thing that's going to be what it's about with Jefferson

Rohos is no one doubts his hit tool. Like as I said, like the Cubs challenge him by

accelerating his development throughout the minor league and saying, Hey, can you hit,

you know, high single A at 19 years old, 20 years old, able to pass that test. And the

other thing, you know, tip of the cap to him was, I think, frankly, he made Christian Hernandez

expendable because when he got to Myrtle Beach last year, Christian Hernandez had to move

over to second base. Next to you know, Christian Hernandez is in a deal, you know, that's bringing

Edward Cabrera over to Chicago. So good for Jefferson, Rohos for building that confidence

throughout the organization. But again, there are still some question marks about his speed,

about his range where he's going to be defensively. So if that is the case, when we talk

about star in Castro, star in Castro had to hit, hit, hit, hit and hit some more to make

it at the major league level. So it's all out there for Jefferson, Rohos. He's 20 years

old. I don't want to get ahead of myself, Craig Brindleman. I love you. But dude, I am

extend Nico Horner. We're not, we're not, we're not kicking the tires on replacing him

with Jefferson, Rohos. Yeah, even though I am rooting for the kid to have a good spring.

A couple other guys that jumped out in yesterday's game, the Aspen, Javier Assad, one, one

and a third in each scoreless, Hodg, who had had the horrible day, Porter Hodg earlier

in the one of the first three games, one in each scoreless, two strikeouts. Everybody

calm down. He needed that. Everybody calm down. You know, think about it like play skate

horde. A guy like him isn't guaranteed for anything, right? He's had success. He's

looked really, really bad as well. You start your spring off as bad as he looked. No one

needed that cleaning anymore than Porter Hodg. And you know, he, he slept really well last

night. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say the other guy that was really good. Sorry. I know

you want to talk Porter Hodg was Ben Brown. Let's get to him next. Because Ben Brown.

Yes. No, I, do you want to jump? Let's jump to Brent Brown.

Because I couldn't excite you. Yeah, it does excite me because when we did, uh, we

did producer prepare last week, right? Like I think he was one of the big guys that really

needs to produce. Yeah. And I'm with you. Like we're, we're so excited about this

Cubs scene. We're so excited about Kate Horton. There's also a young pitcher Ben Brown

that has a lot of potential that they gave a lot of run to. And this happens sometimes

in baseball. And it goes one of two ways, right? Like you bring up a young player with

a ton of talent. And frankly, for the first year or two, the dude gets his head kicked

in. That's kind of just the way it goes a little bit. And how you respond and adjust to

that can make the mark of how kind of what kind of career you're going to have. Is he

going to be a reliever? Is he going to be a starter? So just to see him have two clean

innings, get off to a strong spring start, start building little confidence, each outing

at a time, keep stacking, keep getting there. Make it hard on the Cubs, right? Make them

have to make a decision. And I've said it before with Ben Brown, it's like force the Cubs

to put you in the role that you want to be in. Yes, right? If you can produce and pitch,

if you want to be a starter, go show him. If you want to be a late ending reliever, go show

him. You have the talent to probably figure into the bullpen mix in the fifth, sixth, seventh

inning. But if you want to have a big role in this team, Ben Brown, just keep doing what

you're doing and force the Cubs hand. Guys, hypothetical here, if Ben Brown is lights

out in spring and so far, so far, so good, right? He's looked really, really good in

corporate and third pitch and just his stuff's always been elite. Again, former top prospect

and stuff. If he is lights out this spring, you've heard time, how do we talk about like

he's not counting him out as a starter. Crit council made a comment in some way that

too. Like, you know, he's not saying no to a starter. Hypothetically, he's lights out

this spring. Where does Ben Brown pitch on this team? What does he fit? He's a piggyback

guy. Yeah. That's what I would say. I, especially early in the season, if he proves he could

be a starter for me, I would say he's a piggyback guy. Somebody can ease their way in if they

want to keep Matthew Boyd's numbers down, they could have Boyd and then Ben Brown. Or

if you want to ease, show them in piggyback them early, or you go to a longer rotation and

you get like guys really ease into the rotation. I'm not against that. Yeah. I think of the

early things that have happened. Listen, we're not even a week into cactus league games. So

I don't want to overvalue this. But the biggest thing that's happened since the Cubs started

playing games is not signing Conforto. It is not Jefferson, Rojas. It is Ben Brown showing

you a third pitch. It's Ben Brown's showing you the sinker yesterday that was 98 miles

an hour. Nobody's ever questioned his stuff. People question whether or not he would develop

a third pitch. This was one he developed in the off season. He didn't throw it in a majorly

game last year, anything. This is all brand new. And he already had the fastball and the

curve ball, which were plus pitches. It was, can he throw strikes and can he develop a

third pitch in this first outing for him? It could not have been better. No walks. And

the third pitch finished it off a sinker at 98. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now

Ben Brown, if he does something like that, and he builds on it, and this is just the foundation,

well, now I can see a path to where he's a valuable piece in the rotation. It's not like

we haven't seen. He's shot out the brewers. He's had a couple of dominant starts. He really

hasn't. He hasn't, he hasn't had some real duds too. He has. But we've always seen

the upside on Ben Brown, whether he's in the bullpen or in the rotation. I think he's

helping the Cubs this year, but that addition of a pitch. That's the best thing that's

happened so far. And I know we got to go to break pitches really fast. Yeah, like Ben

Brown against the brewers. Great. Against the Padres came barely get out of the first

inning, right? I like your option a lot because you're going to monitor pitch count with

Cabrera, Boyd. Boyd, when he gets back from the WBC showed up and also even maybe Kate

Horton. So piggy, piggyback, yes, if he is so good though, Justin, he might not like

to hear this though, but with so many off days, the first, first couple months of the season,

which is how it always works out, which is strange to me. Ben Brown might have to go to

AAA and stay a starter and wait for his opportunity. I mean, you want to keep him, want

to keep him lengthened out? One more thing before break. If the piggyback thing does happen,

I only want him piggybacking against Boyd and Shoda. I want the lefty righty. I don't

want to piggyback it against the righty. I feel like take your advantage of like coming

after Boyd or Shoda, lefty righty. What's going on? You know, the, let, let's turn from

that other lineup. One more thought on Ben Brown after the break. But first, a word

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Back on the CHTO Cubs podcast live from the Xfinity loft. Oh, man. This is nice. This is nice.

Our new home soon. It's nice. One C10 days will be in Arizona. It'll be nice there too.

Yes. All right. One final thought on the Ben Brown thing who was great in his first

start or appearance of the cactus league yesterday with a couple of great innings real

nice. No walks showed this new sinker off. We're worried about where we're going to put

him. What's Joe Madden say? Baseball's got a way of taking care of itself. We're not.

We're not wishing injuries on anybody, but sometimes you find a way and sometimes baseball

finds a way. I want to see Ben Brown have a great spring. And as Joey said, force the

Cubs to put him where he wants to be. So now we get on to our topic here. We've gone

around the field and tried to compare where the Cubs stand at each position in the division.

Do they have the best third baseman? Do they have the best first baseman? Do they have

the best catcher situation? Honestly, have they, I think they've been one or two at every

position. Haven't they? Yes. We're a pretty stacked team. I mean, we really are. And

it shows with depth here. If I remember incorrectly, I think we had two at catcher, one

at third, two at shortstop, one at first, one at right field, one in center field,

right center. They're, they're first or second at every, at every position. I believe.

Yeah. Really fast. I don't want to spoil anything. But whoever's watching those and listening,

you're going to be mad at one of us. You're going to be mad at one of us. Stay tuned to

find out, but you're going to be very, very mad at one of us. Could it be Larry Barb?

Could it be Larry? I'm not sure which one of you is Larry, but one of you is going to

be. That's what I said. That said, anyone's going to be Larry. My favorite is the Mr. Crocodile

Man. Shout out Jared. Oh, yeah. Jared's the Crocodile Man. Yeah.

I've got some good ones. And then there's the guy who always thought my name was Steve

for the first three months of the show. Well, like Steve's takes. Okay. So who's the

best second baseman in the national league? We feel like the Cubs are at least one or two

at every position. We always start with number five. And pretty much, well, it's true.

It's always whoever's in St. Louis because they're barely relevant only in St. Louis. They

don't even even their own fans don't show up for their games anymore. The greatest fans

and the greatest fans in all of sports, even they don't want to go see this team play.

That's how bad they stink. Yeah, they'll be in Hell's Kitchen because I think the second

baseman's name Nolan Gormon Ramsey. So, or I love his restaurants. Ah, yeah, yeah.

I love when he screams at me. That's what's going to feel like in the, in April, by the

way. Oh, yeah. In the naps. Lauren Ramsey. Yeah. Oh, whatever. Sorry. It's St. Louis.

It doesn't matter. Moving on. Number four, we have the Cincinnati Reds Matt McClain. Okay.

Matt McClain, young player, a guy who had a really, really strong season two years ago,

3.64 in 20, excuse me, in 2023 has battled some injuries a little bit, 25 years old. Simply

just did not have a really strong season, 15 homeruns, 50 RBIs. I think a guy that, you

know, if this was a Reds podcast, I think they'd be talking about him as an X factor or as

a bounce back guy. Oh, wait, my ears will be digging on him. Yeah, he's a zero. He's a zero

point. Yeah, Gordon went by, definitely pumping him up in Zach let's out. He's a zero point

zero war player. But again, this is when you, when people start talking about like, are

the Reds going to make some noise this year? Yes. I think they're pitching the pitching

matchups are going to be tough. And the Cubs are going to have to score, you know, they're

going to have to get scratch those three, four runs against the Reds. But as you go across

the dominant, you look at the Reds, you're just saying yourself, where is that offense

coming from outside of a you, Henio Suarez? Is Spencer Steer for real? TJ Friedle for real?

And Dela Cruz is the centerpiece. Can he put it all together? So they just have a ton

of question marks offensively. So we have Matt McClain, number three in the list. Larry's

in the middle, by the way, says Barb. So we know you're Larry. Good to know. You got

a great first name, by the way, Joey. I think that's what it is. So let's get to

here. Okay. So here we go, guys. This is when I lean forward in studio A, right? Okay.

Now I just want to say this to everybody out there, right? When we talk about who's

the best second baseman in the I now central? I'm just going to tell you, I'm just going

to keep it real. All right. I'm not going to sugar code it. Oh boy. I'm going to just

crunch it and I'm going to tell you straight up and give you the honest talk. I love Nico

Horner. Okay. Do not train Nico Horner. Extend Nico Horner. I think Nico Horner is reaching

his apex and possibly can maybe even take his game to another level this year. But I'm

just being honest in spring training heading into this year, 2026. I currently personally

have Nico Horner number two. I have Bryce Tarrang is number one. Here's the case.

Tell us why you hate Nico. Here is the case. The K. Yeah, exactly. Let's start. Oh, let

me count the ways. So here's here's the deal. And obviously Brandon Lowe is number three.

Brandon Lowe is an interesting guy, obviously, because he's bring brought over from the pirates

guy that hits 30 home runs. He's atrocious defensively. Okay. So they got more offensively.

All schemes might not really enjoy Brandon Lowe trying to turn double plays with whoever

it's going to be over at short stuff, but he's got tons of pop in his bag. Yeah, tons

of pop left handed hitter. Yeah, he's made it all 13 before very solid player, but just

truly, truly atrocious defensively. Here's the thing with Bryce Tarrang, right? Bryce

Tarrang 25 years old 5.6 war last year combined 10.3 over the last two years. Slash 288 on

base percentage 359 slugging 435. Drove an 81 runs from the second base position hit 18

bombs 28 doubles. He's got seven defensive runs saved. So he's not a bad defensive player.

Nico Horner is by far a better defensive player, but also he steals just about as many bags.

So 24 bags last year, he stole 50 year before that. And a lot of the stuff that we talk

about on the show about why we love Nico Horner, right? Led the team in a runners and scoring

position. Bryce Tarrang with runners and scoring position last year, 364. Okay? Like in

the second half of last year, Bryce Tarrang hit 308 after the all star break. Oh, so did

Nico Horner. His OPS was 916. So he's hitting 308 also with the power and the final part

because I just I'm getting nauseous even like pumping up a guessing up another brewers

player is that frankly, we could say what we want about the brewers lineup, but Bryce Tarrang

is counted on to hit 1, 2, 3 and in the middle of the lineup for the Milwaukee and the

dude delivers. I'm sorry. He's a little bit younger. He's got a little bit more pop on

the bat. He's pretty good defensively. Nico is elite elite elite defensively. But again,

there are some separators there and it's really, really close. But I'm not going to just

come on here and say that every cubs player deserves to be number one. I'm just not I just

think Bryce Tarrang is number one. I know you guys disagree with me. So yeah, let's

talk it out. Yeah, I think that you're putting emphasis on power versus defense. And listen,

Nico, his one knock is, you're right. The power isn't there. Okay. I still think there

is more there. And this is for me the year. Well, I'll find out if I'm just being blindly

optimistic or not. I want to see Nico take that next step with his power because I feel

like if you look at the eye test is there. The guy's in great shape. I feel like he's got

these. I mean, he's not hitting like just home runs. They get into the basket. Who

crushed a ball? And he's got power. I don't know why it hasn't translated. So I still

think this is the year that he takes a step forward power wise. But I think his defense

is so elite that in this conversation, it does make up for lack of power. I'm looking

at your notes right now. Bruce Tarrang has a 5.6 war, right? Nico Horner, 6.2. That's

pretty close, dude. I mean, it's pretty close, guys. It's close. But who's ahead? Who's

younger? You can't. You can't. That's Aegist. No, it's not. It's not Aegist. Thank you. Thank

you. Finally, somebody point out that everybody in this company is Aegist. I also feel like

Nico Horner is honestly the heart and soul of this team. That's fair. And I agree with

that. And the intangibles of the fact of like the guy does every single thing well. I'm

sorry, great minus the power. I think Nico Horner is everything great minus the power.

So I will put Nico Horner number one on my list. It is not a knock on on Tarrang. It's

more just the matter of I think Nico is the best second baseman in the national league

when you look at overall his game. And I do still think there's more power there. And

I'm really hoping to see this here. Break the tie, Luke. Well, here's what I would just

put them both as code number one. That's all honestly. I would do it. Yeah. I will tell

you, Justin, that I personally had the same hope for Nico and the power thing. But I have

given up that I have accepted who Nico Horner is. And he is still the best or co best second

baseman in the division. Tarrang is a better hitter. Nico is a better fielder. Do I value

that power more than I value that defense? Yes. But let me tell you why it's still co number

one. It's co number one because Tarrang plays without pressure. He plays in a city that

nobody cares about. Yeah. He plays in a ballpark that's covered the winds not blowing in.

It's not raining in his face for half of the season. It's not any of those things. He's

not even trying to play defense when the ball swirling around like a tornado coming

down and trying to catch it. He doesn't have the wind knocking down three or four home

runs a year. Right. At least. Okay. He is playing in pressureless baseball in small market

in the walkie. It's not his fault. But you have to factor it in. Yeah. Nico is playing

in the spotlight of rigley field. There aren't too many places bigger in the national league

than playing in rigley field or in all of baseball in the third biggest city in the country.

In a much bigger market with much more intensity looking down on him. And he quietly just keeps

doing it every year. So I will break the tie by just saying they are co number one. I think

Tarrang's power is more valuable than Nico's defense. I think they're both to the top

second baseman in all of baseball. But you have to remember that Tarrang plays in the

walkie. And that comes. That's like giving a speech to your family. When you're in school,

you practice that speech for school. You're like, okay, mom, here I go. Here's my speech.

And you zing through it. And then you get up there for that speech in front of your peers

in the teacher and you go, ah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. And you forget

a few lines. There's a difference. There's a difference. And I think that's the difference

in why they're still co number one. Let me piggyback one thing on what you said that

I know you want to talk. I think if you look at this team, what do we need the Cubs?

What do we need Nico to be better at defense or power? That's fair. Defense. He's a better

fit for us. Nico's a better fit for us because we got power covered. I think we got power

covered and then some, right? So, you know, Tarrang needs to be kind of an offensive

player from Milwaukee. And this team, well, we need Nico Horner to be is the heart and soul

of the team, a stud defensively. And that benefits the Chicago Cubs greater.

But Tarrang is the right fit for Milwaukee. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. Well, yeah,

because in here, here's, and that's why I put him ahead. Frankly, and you brought

up a good point where the conversation that we're having when you talk about Tarrang and

Horner outside of Catelle Marte, maybe you make a case for Chaz, Jazz Chizelm, maybe you

make a run at, and I'll Brendan Donovan or something like that. You are talking about

the two premier second baseman in one division. So when you're making a list like this, and

I know it's the hated brewers or whatever, like, I'm just trying to, like, I'm just trying

to objectively like respect game a little bit. And I love Nico Horner. And I think he's

going to have a great season. And if it was a conversation that I like to have of bases

loaded, nobody out. I need somebody to drive this run in right now. You're taking Bryce

Tarrang. No, I'm taking Nico Horner. No, I'm taking Nico Horner. But no, but objectively

with this ranking right now, when we were sitting here and going, man, the brewers got

to lose sooner or later. They go 29 and four. And they're running away with this division

in August and August and September. Bryce Tarrang was carrying that team at the time.

And I can't walk away from that. Okay, like, I don't know if Nico Horner can carry a team.

Okay, like, and I appreciate him for his defense and what he brings to the team. And they

are different players. So it's hard to have the argument other than the fact that they

play the same position. But I'm just not going to walk away from the fact that, man, Bryce

Tarrang had a really great year for the brewers, man. And if they want to do anything this

year, he might even have to be better for them. Oh, Joey or Larry, whatever your name

is, should I mind you for having integrity? All right. While we had to break on the CHTO

comes podcast hit that like button. Let's give us the old thumbs up. But first award

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podcast and Vince Perez six, three, 22 with the live chat of the day in the live YouTube

chat here in the all new CHGO Cubs YouTube channel. He says I agree with Luke. Nobody cares

about the brewers. It's funny how that one anybody that says I agree with Luke, you always

get your comment read. It's highlighted. That has never changed over this. It's gonna

be our fifth season. Talk about integrity. I mean, there you go, right? Yeah, taking

those for sure. Yeah. How about Barb's? How about we? How about that one then? What does

Barb have? The last one. I hope Stucky takes them to hooters after the show. They look

hungry. Yeah. Great. We talked about just the other day. Yeah. One more comment before

we get to taking the temp. And it's I loved I love to ask. So if I think this part might

be I like horror more than I like terrain just because I'm, you know, integrity. Yeah.

Would you trade them straight up? Well, this is where age does plan to and it's where

contract comes. Yeah. I mean, so that's a. So, you know, Joey's allowed to be ageist

when it comes to trading somebody one on one because 25 versus 28. Yeah, contract, age,

those things matter. And we're going to get to PCI, obviously, a little bit. Those type

of things matter when you're talking about trading someone one for one. So that's a tough

one. I guess. And I keep coming back to when we have these conversations, though, who

do I want on my team for this year? Yeah. That's true. Yeah. And I want Nico on my team

for this year. Well, to my point, and that's the part about it. You said, yeah, to my

point, when we talk about better fit for us this year. Correct. Yeah. So it's like as

much as I think Kyle Tucker is an incredibly talented, productive hitter. He's boring.

I think Alex Bregman is a better fit for what the Cubs are trying to do this year. Yes.

Which is when the world series. Okay. And I'm going to yeah. So if we talk about the trade

straight up today, I'm not doing it. I'm keeping Nico Horner on the Cubs. Even though I

think in a power ranking, I think Bryce Tarang is ahead of Nico Horner. I just noticed

by the way that we're going to need to get some of those new bobble heads. We're going

to have to go to the promotional games, because we have a Hayden, West Neskey bobble head

on the set. Okay. All right. I need a little refill. Hey, listen to this. He wants a

Cubs. Always a Cubs. Okay. It's a little gamey, though. Can you smell it? We're going to

need a little gamey. But I need some new ones. But on my side, we have a Nico Horner bobble

head. Well, you do. Yeah. I can't see. I can't see it from here. So good job, Sarah.

I'll play it every day in the world. So we have, I mean, there's your answer. That's

my number one second baseman right there in front of us as a bobble head. Great hair

in the back too, by the way. The flow is amazing to him. It is time for taking the temp

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So the taking the temp question of the day is carried over from yesterday when we were

talking about Pete Crohr Armstrong and we were talking about who are the best center

fielders in the division. And we looked around and it, I guess it depends on where you

want to play churro and then we talked about churro and I said, so would you trade straight

up Pete Crohr Armstrong for churro? That's the first part of the taking the temp question.

And then the second part is if you had to trade Pete Crohr Armstrong, if the cubs were

forced somehow, right? If our existence on the planet only continued if we traded Pete

Crohr Armstrong, that was what the people told us we had to do. The aliens said either

the cubs trade legal owner or this planet doesn't exist. That's right. It forced us.

Who would you trade him for? Who would you be willing to trade him for? So first of

all, do we have ground rules with this? Like contracts and stuff like that? This is taking

the temp. We take it however we want. This is Chicago. The temp can be all over the place.

That's true. That's true. Okay. So the first name on the list for me is churro and then

we can expand it from there. I believe that churro, I've said I take PCA over churro.

Even though the age is one year younger, I believe for churro, almost two years. I like

the guy I know. I like the guy that I've seen the quotes from by the way, the Dodgers

quote that was in that article legendary legendary. Give me more of that. Absolutely. He knows

how to get me fired up this Armstrong kid. I love Chicago more and more. The people

are great. They aren't just baseball fans who go to the game like Dodgers fans to take

pictures and whatever. Wow. They care. Boom. Take that in your big payroll and stick it

in your Hollywood. Yeah, whatever. And best of swag. I was talking about yesterday.

You know, we could talk about stats. We could talk about war. We could talk about zips

all those things. But there's a swag factor with PCA that I love that I want more of.

You know, like there's some guys that just, you know, wouldn't have the cojones to say

something like that. But PCA is not one. He will say what's on his mind. I mean, I'm

sure as agents like, dude, shut up. He said like, I want to be a cop for life. Like he's

verbally said that. Like I hope they can work out a deal from an agent. It's probably like,

dude, stop saying that you're killing my leverage. You know, like he wants to be here.

He loves Chicago. He's everything that's good about Chicago. And the swag factor is just

off the meter. Joey, you lived in Hollywood. This is Mary Hart and Jason Bateman versus

the Gribowski's. Okay. Like where the Gribowski's in their Mary Hart with her insured legs and

Jason Bateman. I've been to a lot of Dodgers games, a lot of Dodgers versus Cubs. And I'm

happy to say that we do not do the wave at Rigglyfield. I think the wave. Thank you. Everyone's

like, no one pays attention at Rigglyfield. It's like, all right. Yeah, let's all get 56,000

human mass looking at each other, all standing up in unison. Yeah, pure intelligence to

doubt the stadium. There's a new generation of fans that are really that try every once

in a while. And the old heads start booing. And we do what we can to like stop it. But you're

right. It's not allowed. There'll be a day. Probably the wave. The wave is a disgusting

display of sports fandom. Anyways, when we talk about PCAverse Jackson, Churriot, I agree

with all of your points where it's like, how do you take your player? How do you take

your talent? Like personally, I like hot sauce on my taco. You know what I put on my Italian

beef? I put on Jardinera. You know what I'm saying? I like a little sizzle on my steak.

Okay. Like I like that flavor. I like my players, not only with immense talent like PCA,

but also willing to stick it out there and put it out there being like, we want to beat

the Dodgers. We want to be the best. I want to be the best. I love Chicago. I want to

be here. Baseball is the best. This stuff is my life. That's what you want to hear from

a player. Now, I'm not trying to knock guys that are more quiet or go about their business

a certain way, which is fine. However, you want to do it. Kyle Hendrix. But yeah, yeah,

yeah. That's a great, that's a great example. I just, I as a fan, I gravitate towards PCA.

Give me all of that PCA stock when we talk about him, Versturio. Yeah. I mean, I think

the list of players that you would, if you're forced to trade Pete Croix Armstrong because

of some force of nature, it's a pretty small list when you go around Major League Baseball.

First of all, that player has to be young. The biggest debate in my mind is whether or

not I would trade him for some of those young front line starters. Would I trade him for

scuba? Would I trade him for schemes? And I don't think it'd be a one for one, to be honest

with, right? Right. Right. But I have a hard time trading in all around every day player

that can impact nine innings of a game, even though he's only up four times, but his defense

can impact any inning. His speed could impact any inning. I have a tough time saying that

I would do it for a starter because pitchers get hurt so often. Now, maybe that makes the

front line bona fide one or two aces in the game, even more valuable, right? Because

that's the way it's going. Yeah. But they get hurt so often. They do. They get hurt so

often. And it's just less likely that my everyday player is going to go through something

injury-wise, that will impact their career or will impact two years, three years, right?

It's just it's less likely. And I know they've done a better job of repairing these arms.

So I just want to focus at least for now before we get into that, if you want to do pitchers,

we can position players. And can we put a market like, I think the players got to be under

26. Okay. And so I have a player in mind where I would say, yes, I would do it. I do too.

But that player is about to turn 26. I would I would trade PCA for Bobby Whit Jr.

Correct. All right. Okay. Okay. I would trade PCA for Bob. That's a name where I can say,

okay, if you told me I had to trade Pete Kerar am strong. And if the royals told me,

well, we'll give you Bobby Whit Jr. I would say, okay. He's the PCA or short stops. That's right.

He's incredible defensively. But he's more advanced offensively than he's going to be 26 in June.

PCA will be 24 in March. So he's two years younger. And he's got a big contract if I'm not wrong.

Correct. Yes. They just they signed him up. Yeah. But it's not like it's not crazy.

Right. It's like Kansas City Royals big. Right. Locked him up early. It's not PCA under a

contract. But if I if you said I even with two years older and the contract, if you told me,

you'd give me Bobby Whit Jr. on my team. And I'd have to give up PCA.

I can see that. I can see that argument. But he's 11 to be out of that list at some point.

This 11 year 288. Right. That's not crazy. No. No. Not crazy. If you if we said if we woke up

tomorrow and they're like, we just signed PCR. I'm strong to an 11 288.

I'd be pretty I'd be pretty excited. I think I'd probably be a little hesitant. But if he has

the year that we all think that he's going to have this year and he signed an 11 year for 288,

I think we'd be pretty pretty pumped. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So Bobby Whit Jr. Even though he's currently

25, he's one of the few guys in baseball. I would say, okay. I mean, he might be my favorite

player in baseball out. That's not on a Cubs team. Okay. He's he's that good. He's nasty.

Julio Rodriguez. No. 25 years old. 32 homers. So one more homer, batting average, 174 hits.

Had a great year last year. Really good. Really good. Really good second half.

Well, coming off of a record total drive. So roughly a year older. He had a great year,

but I want to say he was coming off of not so great year as well. So he's not exactly a guaranteed

year. You're going to get this. Yeah. So the year previous to that, and I got into it with Sean

Anderson, new host, CH Jo White socks. He previous to last year. He had a really rough start to his

year. He had a really rough first half and he finished off his second half strong. Okay.

And I had this conversation with Sean Anderson. We're like, I think Julio Rodriguez has

incredible talent. And frankly, he was just kind of bumming me out because he just wasn't

being the superstar that I think that he should be. And so we got into it back and forth,

but I think last year, he really, he really showed up. And yeah, look, Julio Rodriguez is a

little bit more of a track record than PCA right now. But honestly, I think I'm keeping PCA.

Yeah, I'm too. I agree. I would take PCA over Julio Rodriguez. And again, we have to remember

just to be fair because of integrity and everything that PCA did have a part of the season. It wasn't

very good. I can't just remember all the good stuff. But so then I go down to the name Corbin

Carroll, who will be two years older than PCA in June. He'll be 26. And it's funny because the

numbers are pretty darn close to PCA last year, 259 batting average. So he was 12 points higher in

batting average in PCA. They both hit 31 homers. He had 11 less RBI than PCA. And they had exactly

the same amount of hits, 146. And that's with PCA's bad second half. That's right. And with PCA

being a better defensive player and incentive. And they and the only thing I'll say about Corbin

Carroll lead off guy is he cares as much as PCA. Okay. You know what I mean? Like when we do the whole

intangible stuff about like, does the dude care? Corbin Carroll cares a lot. He just broke his handmade

bones. He's hurt. There's videos of him swinging with one arm right now just to come back. I mean,

that dude, that dude really cares. Man, that's a close one. Yeah it is. I'm keeping PCA. I'm keeping PCA

as well. Yeah. I'm keeping PCA. Because if it's close, I mean defensively, PCA is probably the best

defender in all baseball. I mean, I don't I don't feel it's a hot take. I think that at the very

least in that conversation. So I keep PCA with that one. There's just something about Peacrow Armstrong.

And this is this is where blind faith for me comes in. It's just the way he carries himself, the way

he talks, the way that he has he has incrementally improved each and every single year. Now has it

been a rocket ship ascension? It almost was last year through the first half. And it kind of

peed it off in the second half. But I have this weird intangible blind faith that PCA Armstrong

is is straight up just going to figure it out. He's going to work his way into being a superstar.

And I think that's it comes this year. So actually I'm not doing it. Okay. I'm not doing it either.

Yeah. We're still kind of going down. So we're getting guys that are a little bit younger now.

Ellie Dela Cruz. Nope. No 24 way too much of what if like I he's he could be a superstar,

Hall of Famer. When it's all said and done, he could be a complete bust. And I just know

it. I don't know about complete bust. Okay. He could be a center fielder.

I'm gonna say some people might say the same thing about PCA. Like there's a lot a lot to love.

And then there's a lot to still improve on. Yep. I wouldn't do it either. No. No.

Jacob Wilson 24 years old in March. So he's a little bit younger. He hit 311 13 homers 151 hits.

He's a good young player. He's the pressure guy though. Where is he doing? Where is he making that

happen? It's a good young good young. Sacramento. Yeah. Now here's another here's a name that I think

gets me a little bit closer to Bobby Whitt. Junior Caminero. Gonna be 23 in July.

Hit 264 45 bombs. 110 RBI and 159 hits. How impressive was he at Riggly last year?

Yeah. God. He crushed us last year. Yeah. I was I was I'm rarely as terrified as of a 22 year old

as junior Caminero. Can I can we sleep on it? Is that is that a pressure thing though as well? Is that

like I mean, market size? That's a pretty good thing. Yeah. I the only thing about that is that he

plays his road games at Fenway Park in Yankee Stadium. Yeah. But no, I think I think that's fair

and at 22 years old, if he replicates what he did last year and hits 40 plus bombs again.

I mean, man, he's dude, he's a he's an old school hot corner slugger, man. He's impressive.

Corey Seacrest, he says, if it's close, tie goes to the guy you know, I don't know

Bobby Whitt's not a tie. Bobby Whitt is a yes for me. Okay. Junior Caminero is really close.

Okay. Like that is that's a really good cornerstone player moving forward. He's still only 22. He's

going to be 23. All right, Jackson Merrill was a great season. Then he kind of bounced back a little

bit. 264, 16 homers, 67 RBI 116 hits. He's going to be 23 in April also younger than PCA. Would you

trade Jackson Merrill? For PCA if you were forced to? My answer is no. I would not. I'm keeping PCA

in the north side. Cheerio is going to be 22 in March. We've all said no.

But I think right now he might be third on my list because he is so young and he's already

batting 27, 21 homers, 148 hits. He's good defensively, not as good as PCA.

But I can agree that Jackson Cheerio is at least on the maybe list if I'm forced to. I think he's

a rung below Kamenero though. Yeah. I agree. Yeah, but in terms of like, let's just say the aliens

got the phaser gun pointed at you and say you're trading PCA no matter what. If you're forced to

trade, you have to do it right. That's right. I think he's a little bit lower down the list of

like Julio Rodriguez, Jr. Kamenero, Corbin Carroll. I'm probably swapping those guys. I'm probably

grabbing those guys. I'm definitely grabbing Bobby Witt first. And then I think maybe Jackson

Cheerio kind of slots in there. I think Jackson Meryl's like kind of way lower than that. Jacob

Wilson's a little bit lower than that. So far Bobby Witt is the only one we don't need the aliens

with the phaser gun for. I'm sorry. I would do it. He's Bobby Witt. If the Royals called and said

Witt for PCA, I would say yes. Is that the guy you were talking about as well? You said you had

somebody as well. Is that the Bobby Bobby? Yeah. I mean, he's the guy he literally can hit 320

with 30 home runs. So and he's the best shortstop in the game. Luke, you opened up this this topic by

saying you throw school ball and you throw out schemes. Yeah. Where did you go with that? And then

you went with, you know, uh, uh, players. Yeah. I had a thought about that. Like if we're if we're

doing, if we're doing this, uh, to go back to pitching, I'm an absolute no for school ball.

Right now, one year deal. I'm an absolute yes for schemes. I think that I know PCA is in every day

player, but man, there's something about having a legit legit number one that we're hoping that

Kate Horton can be or is. Skins is that. And he's still on a rookie deal. And that dude, I want

starting game one of the and I'll DS and I'll see us world series. So like in that situation,

notice Google, because I'm not doing it for a rental. Yes, the schemes all day every day.

That's interesting. I, I, I, I agree with the two. The contract makes the difference. Yeah.

They're like where they are. That makes the difference. Um, I want to get your opinion on that

two in a second. The other names I had on here. Roman Anthony's going to be 22 and May hit 292.

Only eight home runs. Gunner Henderson. 24. Yeah. James Wood going to be 24 in September. Great

year. Last year. 31 homeers just like PCA 256 153 hits. Listen, there's a lot. There's a lot. I've

heard people rave about James Wood. Yeah. Look at the numbers. I'm telling you, you have to remember

that half of the season was kind of a disaster at the plate for PCA 256 versus the 247 batting

average for PCA. I mean, everything is really, really close like the home runs and stuff are really

close. But again, PCA's defense superior. I think I'm saying no. I think I'm saying no. I think

the only position player in in major league baseball is Bobby Whit big dumper. So that was the one

I wanted to do was like for the next five or is there anybody out like for the next five years,

would you trade PCA for Aaron judge? And it's a five year deal. I mean, yes. Yeah, I think we

be roasted if we said no. Yeah. Well, because no, Tony, I would do too. Yeah. I just think like

you're just doing this super young, you know, yeah. And for five and the other five years was

would you trade PCA for 33 year old Mookie bets? That was the other one. No, no, I wouldn't.

Not because that's where the age and I put the five years on it because it's like

I'm forcing the person to consider the projecting out of what are you getting in years four and

five versus what you could be getting if PCA's at his apex in your four five. Mookie playing center

force. He probably moved back to the outfield. I would figure probably he'd be, um, wow. Yeah,

would he be your right fielder? Would he be your center fielder? Say it does play a little center.

That that makes it sort of interesting, especially if you're talking about just for one year.

I think Corey is correct. Boots is showing more of a decline and Mohawk Timmy, Aaron judge

absolutely. I think we're all right. When it comes to like Aaron judge, you do it. Aaron

judge. Yes. Otoni. Yes. We'll see what you went junior. Yes. Okay. But bets.

The thing like the bets remember, Betts got so sick before that Japan series. Yeah.

He lost 25 pounds. Yeah. And I always go back to like if you're a guy like it's an appendicitis

or something like that and they just lose all that weight and then you're forced to play

professional baseball day in and day out. I just don't know if Mookie Betts ever got right

last year. But I hear you like 33 years old. Eventually, Mookie Betts won't be Mookie Betts anymore.

He's 75 career worth of the dudes all the famers. You're putting a five-year thing on it. He's 33 now.

I'll be 38 by the end of the thing. I mean, the five-year matters, you know, like 100%.

PCA is still going to be in his prime in five years. Betts, I think we all agree will not be.

They're just aren't. I'm trying to think of anybody else.

And you're talking about less than a handful of players. Because that's the thing is it's like

all the ingredients are there. I think we said yesterday like PCA is the franchise player's

starter kit. Like he literally has every ingredient to make the most wonderful delicious recipe to be

your franchise face for the next five, six years years. Yeah. And probably a 10 if we're lucky.

And we years of we're lucky. And we got him for a half a season of Havi bias. I mean, it's just

it's one of the I think it'll eventually go down as one of the all-time best cup trades. I just

think that looking back like whoo. And Havi was good for them. That's too good for them. But

they didn't reassign them. You know what I mean? So big dumpers. Another guy I would do it for.

Switch hitting catcher. Switch hitting catcher who it's 60 home runs. Can you imagine?

That's not a single home run catcher. It really feels a centaur. Well, we did. He did like four

bombs. He was awesome. That's serious. You know, there are a handful of players in Major League

Baseball. But if you're just talking about the guys 25 and under. Yeah.

I think it's only Bobby Witt right now of the position players. And he's going to be 26. So

he'd be off the list. Luke, I'd answer this question. Joey, how do you feel? Would you do it for

schemes? Yeah. I would. I mean, yes, I want to say it. Um, schemes is tough one. So what's

interesting. So look like I love scoobal. But if we're starting to like get into the nitty-gritty

and we want to start picking at the knit of Turk scoobal, like he wasn't necessarily like ready

made when he got up. You know, he's really like taking his game to another level. And by taking

into another level, I also mean like velocities up stuff is better. Like the last couple of years

is TJ stuff. He's just gone to this elite level. I'd love to have him on my team. But Paul

schemes from the moment that he's got. He's been, uh, has been dynamite. He's been pretty incredible.

And Luke, you made a really great point about position players and everyday stuff. My only counter

that to be was schemes is a guy that can get you 21 to 24 outs in a world series game. Yeah.

And win it by himself, right? And that's what that's what the starting pictures do. You know what I

mean? And that's where he could do it. My moto did last year for the Dodgers. I mean, he's that guy

where he can get three wins in one world series. Yes. I would do it for schemes. Yeah. I would too.

I would. And then other than that, I don't know. I don't know if there's any other pictures.

To be honest with you. I think schemes and wit are the two names that I come up with. I'm with you.

But wits can be off the list soon. And so then it's just a young picture. And then you're just

running the risk that your starter is going to stay healthy and be that dominant. Mm-hmm.

Moving forward. And if you're if you're forced to trade PCA, you just hope he doesn't hit 40 bombs

a year. Ron has a good point as we're ending here. Nobody's worried about PCA question mark. He

hasn't been consistently good since July of this past year. Right. That's a very valid point. Yeah.

You know, like he we're taught we we are fantasizing about first half Pete Crow Armstrong. That's

right. You know, second half PCA was not great. But I think I'll speak for myself. I said the last

yesterday. I said again in his mind. He's a superstar and he's a he's got great work. I think

and I think that we're going to see a much improved PCA this year. And I do think part of his

downfall last year and the second half was because Kyle Tucker was not in the lineup. I think that

PCA with a healthy Alex Bregman say I said, Zuki, I think PCA will shine and we'll take that

major step forward to be the superstar this year that he already believes that he is. That's

what I'm counting on. The bottom line is there's almost nobody in Major League Baseball

that I would trade PCA for. It's a list of like five players. Period.

Like that, Sarah. Period. And by this time next year, that list is going to be even smaller. Except

for some of the players you guys did mention, but anyways. Yeah, look, he's got to go out there

and prove it. Yes, we're we're we are collectively sitting here banking and believing that he's

going to. All right, thanks for checking out the CHTO Cubs podcast. We're back again tomorrow at

two, I think, right? Regular time. Are we going to be one 30 tomorrow? Two tomorrow.

Thanks for checking it out. Thanks for going through all our silliness. We don't want to trade PCA.

I love Niko Horner. And you love Niko Horner. I love him more obviously. Me too. Thanks for watching

until next time fly the W.