Is ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ More Than a Moneymaker? | Button Mash

Hi everyone, it's Amy Polar and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang.

In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give

me some advice.

Just be yourself and the guests will come.

Don't be the celebrity that this is their like 16 you're doing.

I love chew crime and cooking podcast.

Is there any way you could combine the two?

Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast, so join me for Good Hang.

It's rough out there.

We're just trying to lighten it up a little.

Hello and welcome into the ringerverse, your nexus feed for all things fandom.

It's me, Ben Lindbergh, senior editor at the ringer and button mash host, rejoin today

by Charles Bullion Moore who reviewed the movie for the verge.

What movie is that?

Obviously, the Super Mario Galaxy movie.

What other movie could it be?

And I'm going to begin.

I'm going to tee you up, Charles, by reading the first sentence from your bio at the verge.

Charles Bullion Moore is a film and TV writer for the verge, focusing on genre entertainment

and how disparate fandom specific conversations coalesce into what we know as the discourse.

Charles, would you care to do some discourse today?

Okay.

And that's one of my not-disgore things.

I know.

Let's have some fandom specific conversations on how does that sound.

So we conversed about Pokemon, Pacopia, on the button mash last month.

Has your Pacopia journey proceeding?

Pacopia is good.

I feel my relationship to the game is changing, not in terms of my intensity of my fondness

for it, but started off, I was like, we're just going to clean everything up.

We're going to restore the town to what need to be.

And then I was like, no, everyone needs houses.

But then once you unlock all of the pre-made houses, do you like all these, these are fine,

but I should build something.

And now I'm kind of in this Marie Kondoish sort of space where I spend time with the Pokemon

that I'm thinking about building a house for.

And I'm like, what would you fit well in like what kind of house would fit well in that

kind of area?

So all of this is to say is that everything is still a mess.

But my feelings about the mess have changed.

Well, the thing about Pacopia is that even if you do catch them all, the number of Pokemon

who are actually actively present are, that number is limited.

And so they do go away.

And so you do have to focus on the Pokemon you care about.

So that really boils it down to the essence of the experience.

So your Pacopia journey is evolving, I guess we can say.

And today, I am happy to have you back because I had a great time talking to you about

Pacopia and just related that you're here to talk about the video game adaptation event

of the year, the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which no April fooling is out now in theaters.

Sure.

You can go see it.

And if you're listening to this, I'm guessing you will and will the rest of the world

because this movie will make a zillion dollars.

So we have both seen it.

As I mentioned, you have written, reviewed it.

And today we will verbally review it in a way.

So we'll talk a little bit about what to expect.

We'll steer clear of spoilers early on.

We'll have maybe a more spoiler specific section of this conversation a little later.

And we'll talk about it in a big picture sense.

What does it mean for the Nintendo cinematic universe?

And we'll talk about just the various audiences who might enjoy this movie or enjoy it less

and who it's for.

And I think really the consensus so far, the critical consensus has been a little

lower than it was on the first movie.

And I don't disagree and reading both of your reviews.

I get the sense that you don't disagree either, but I think you're higher on the Mario

movies than I am, which is good.

We're getting some positivity on the podcast.

Not that I am a Mario movie cater.

I want to make that clear.

But the takeaway for me is that if you liked the first Mario movie, you will also like

this movie most likely.

That is correct.

The same writer.

It's the same directors.

It's the same producers.

It's let's not mess with success because when the Super Mario Brothers movie came out,

it was the third highest grossing animated movie ever, $1.4 billion.

It's one of the most successful streaming movies on record.

This checked every box for Nintendo.

Why are you guys taking this in a different direction?

Why don't you do something completely different after that's just stunning success on every

level, at least financially, if not creatively.

So is that the takeaway for you more of the same, possibly too much more of the same?

So I think too much more of the same is exactly it, right?

I get into this in my review, but with both of these movies, right?

There is a herculean task trying to make a Mario movie because to turn any one Mario game

into a standalone film would kind of be a tricky proposition, right?

The stories in individual games aren't always that strong, especially for the first one,

right?

It is the first installment of this new iteration of Mario.

You've got to get Mario Luigi Peach, Donkey Kong Bowser.

You've got to go all on the screen at once as a part of a succinct and cohesive narrative

that is going to be presented beautifully and keep kids' attention, right?

So the first one and the second one also, it's picking from a bunch of different pieces

of the larger Mario franchise.

And I think that that's, I think that was definitely the right way to go for the first

one, right?

Picking shoes from the canon to build something new that's going to be both a lot of people's

first introduction to Mario.

Again, I say this all the time, there's a new kid's born every day, right?

There's people who don't know Mario, so they have to get all that data.

Yeah, right?

It's like the XKCD comic today is 10,000 things that we take for granted.

Someone is learning that for the first time.

Yeah.

And then for older fans, right, that is sort of the more, that is the tricky part of picking

from the canon, right?

Like, how do you pick things that fans are going to love and then how do you put them

on to the screen in a way that's going to make for satisfying film going experience?

I think the first one was definitely like, it's a me.

We're all here.

Like, look at how pretty it is.

And if you like this, we'll do some more.

And get on the box office.

That's exactly what Nintendo and Illumination did.

People liked it.

People liked it.

They liked it a lot.

But with the second film, I don't want to say it's a trap that Nintendo walked into.

But Mario Galaxy does have a pretty, it's not, you know, the most robust story.

But it is a stronger, it is one of the strongest stories in the franchise.

And so in, you know, going from Super Mario Brothers to Super Mario Galaxy, right, we're

already leapfrogging over a bunch of games from various consoles.

But you are sort of asking the audience to follow these characters to a point in their

lives where perhaps the structure of the film could have changed a little bit, right?

You know, the plumbers, we know what their powers are, we know that, you know, new costumes

means cool action sequences, maybe we'll see more peach.

But here with Galaxy, it's like, all right, so we're getting into Rosalina and Illumas

and Bowser Jr.

And it's like, okay, all right, all right.

You know, when the studios first confirmed that Galaxy was going to be the title, I think

there was a lot of initial excitement because Rosalina is very much one of those like fan

favorite characters.

I feel like part of the reason, this is just like my own personal little head cannon.

I feel like part of the reason that Donkey Kong, Bonanza exists and the reason that Pauline

has been brought back in such a prominent way over the past, not past few games, but between

Bonanza and Odyssey, I think it's Odyssey, is because Nintendo saw how people responded

to Rosalina and just how much she sort of immediately became a beloved character.

Mario franchise doesn't really introduce a lot of humans all that often, right?

And so they were like, or humanoids.

And they feel like, you know, we can also, we can do this with Pauline and she's been here

the whole time.

We just haven't done anything with her.

And those experiments have paid off rather successfully.

All of that good will that sort of attached to the Galaxy game set people's expectations

very high for this film.

And I think it got everyone into thinking that maybe because the game is so, because Galaxy

is such a different kind of Mario game than the original Mario game, different the Mario

world, right?

Very different than Sunshine, perhaps the movie, but also shift, and there'd be narrative

shifts as well.

But when you sit down and watch it, it's like, oh, no, I see the formula.

It's the same.

It's the same.

Here's a little bit of this.

Here's a little bit of that.

Here's a bunch of new characters on the franchise that we haven't seen before.

We've got, work the frog, burdo's here.

And then they're really kind of swinging for the fences, like also the Pikmin are here.

And so is Fox McLeod.

And I think that I try not to pay attention to trailers to too, too, too, too much, but

the announcement, just a few days before the press breeding that Fox McLeod was going

to be in the movie, was my first side of like, hmm, there's a lot going on here you guys.

Rob the robot is also there.

And when you do watch the trailers, you do get a sense of like, this is another action

and just big set piece kind of movie.

By a dent of the number of disparate scenes that are in the trailer, like, all right,

well, the film's going to have to, it's going to have to move and go to a lot of different

places.

And given the runtime, it means it's all going to happen very quickly.

Yes.

It's dizzying almost in just how much it bombards you with.

And that's just in terms of scenes, set pieces, characters, Easter eggs.

It never lets up for a second.

And like the first movie, it doesn't overstay its welcome.

So these are roughly hour and a half issues.

Any longer, I think would just be overload.

I think there's more magical than going into the movie theater in like late afternoon and

you come out and the sun is still up.

It's like, yes.

How wonderful.

Yes.

That's what you want.

We don't need the three hour epic Mario movies.

We don't need these Avengers and game of Mario movies.

Maybe we're building up to that.

We'll talk about it.

It's funny.

You say that because like, I know, I'm sure you've seen like a couple of weeks ago.

Everyone was making fun of this video that was made.

I think with Unreal Engine, where it was sort of like, here's what grim dark Mario would

look like.

Yes.

I guess it's beach talking to him through a headpiece or something.

He's just, he goes by M and I feel like there are a lot of people who as much as they

were quick to ridicule that video online or sort of just like, the video was making fun

of a certain kind of the conventions of of AAA games.

I do feel like.

I feel like there are a lot of people who wanted some of that, not a one-to-one translation

of that kind of energy in the Galaxy movie, but a little bit more of like, when are we

going to see Mario's heartfelt declaration of his love for Pete, you know, after they've

had a, I don't know, a die-hard action sequence.

And then tend to an elimination like, well, no, no, no, that's not what this is.

Yeah.

He's working up to it.

He's building his courage.

It's going to take him a few more movies.

And is kind of a postmodern Mario movie, if that snaps a too fancy a term for it.

But like the first one, because it is pulling from so many sources, I think, because it

is labeled with the name of a specific game as we're saying people were expecting more

of a direct adaptation.

And there's certainly a lot of Galaxy in the Galaxy movie, but it is not a direct adaptation.

It's pulling from all sorts of sources from the oldest to the newest, and so yes, you're

getting a lot of recognizable Galaxy characters and settings and sounds.

Yeah.

My God, the sense memories that were triggered in me, just every time we hear Aluma, or

we just were launching between planets or whatever it is, just brings me back.

And I also want to talk about just the, the rollout for this, right?

Because Nintendo's clever.

They're sort of seeding our expectations for this Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were re-released

and made available on Switch 2, sort of seeding this, and we can talk about how this might

tie into future game releases.

But it's also the first time we see Mario and Luigi in this movie, and I'm not giving

away anything.

I don't think that hasn't been in trailers and marketing.

But you know, they're in an Odyssey setting, they're in Odyssey's Sand Kingdom, and then

Bowser Jr. has the Magic Paintbrush from Mario Wonder.

So it's, it's pulling from everywhere and every when in the Mario timeline, which makes

it a treat for the, the lifers, who will pick up on all of these references, but also

does mean that it's, it's far from sort of a self-contained story, and it's just, it

has so many influences at all times, and it's just how much can we cram into this thing.

You know, Game's Radar, the site, has a list of all of the Easter eggs in this movie.

And I'd love to know how they manage this.

How many times did they attend screenings, where they furiously scribbling notes, what

is happening here?

But it's thousands of words, it's just, I don't even know if it's exhaustive, but it's

things that you would have to watch the movie frame by frame to pick up on.

There's just so much, it's just stuffed or overstuffed with all of these references and

Easter eggs.

There are times where you get the sense that, is this a movie, or is it an Easter egg collection?

Is it just a collection of references?

Is it just meant to trigger that nostalgia, that, hey, I recognize that thing, or is it

actually sort of telling its own story?

And it's interesting to me that Shigeru Miyamoto did an interview with Polygon about this,

and they were asking him, well, how did you come up with the concept for a sequel?

Miyamoto was sort of resisting the term or the framing of it as a sequel.

He said, we never framed it as a sequel, but we framed it as the next movie.

And that's kind of interesting, because does it really build on 2023 Super Mario Brothers

movie in some respects, right?

There are pre-existing relationships here, but for the most part, it just kind of picks

up, and it actually kind of highlights the fact that there's no previously on, there's

no, hey, let's catch everyone up.

They almost mock the idea of doing that, and it just starts, and then it's full speed

ahead.

And maybe that's smart, because everyone has seen that movie, not only did everyone see

it in theaters, but it's immensely successful and streaming.

And everyone's familiar with this IP, these characters in these games, so why belabor at

the point?

Why have the Batman or Spider-Man origin story in the unearthed adaptation of those properties?

It also sort of speaks to the fact that you don't need to know that much.

You know, you just sort of sit back and let these images wash over you.

You bringing up Miyamoto's reluctance to call this a sequel, actually makes me think

of something that I really did appreciate the film, but I couldn't get to in my review,

because it's a little, it was a little in the weeds, but one of the things that I love

about Super Mario Bros. 3, right, is that at the end of it, it's revealed that it's all

the stage play, right?

Like, it's all kind of, it alludes to this idea, like, this is why these characters keep

appearing in one another's lives over and over and over again.

I thought Bowser died in that game, no, he's back, it's fine, right?

Like, this is just sort of, it's puppetry, and there is an elaborate sequence in the film

that sort of elaborates to this in a way, it's a scene between Bowser and Bowser Jr.,

and it did sort of that and the way that the film is just kind of like, and we're back,

right?

We're back, and also there's a dinosaur now.

There's a little bit of backstory about Yoshi, Yoshi's actually very well done in the

film.

I think I think we're really in a, Yoshi's great.

It's Shadow of the Dome of the Yoshi is actually like the most popular performances in the

game on the entire movie, but it is funny how self-consciously almost when he shows up,

I think it's Luigi is just, so there's a dinosaur now, and he's just part of the crew,

and it's like, yep, he is, but...

And it is just, like, an aside and a quick little montage of, what was Yoshi up to this

whole time?

Yes.

to understand it. That kind of energy, that sort of, let's be, it's not being met

a per se, but it is kind of sort of embracing the idea that Mario narrative aren't sort

of like a continuous arc that's defined by what happened in the previous game defines

exactly the way that the next game is going to play out. I like that about this movie,

actually. I wish that that energy could have, like, that is something that the movie

could have played with, right, a little bit more intentionally. But I think that that

kind of authorial voice in the movie is something that Nintendo just wasn't particularly

interested in leaning into. And I think that, just speaking personally, if that had been

present in the film, it would have tickled me and it would have made me a bit more, how

to put this, that would have satisfied my whole. Like, are you going to take this in a

slightly different direction? Are you going to bring a new kind of energy to this? And

I think that it could have elevated the film. But I really do think the motivation here

was to make something that was going to appeal to his broad and his young and audience as

possible. We were talking a little bit before, right? The easy defenses, it's a kids movie

and the responses, well, like we should not condescend to children and children are capable

of appreciating and engaging with more dynamic stories. That's true. That's true. Sometimes

kids don't want that, right? And it's not as if we live in a world where suddenly all

of the children's programming has just become so high-minded and multifaceted and all

of the children are discoursing amongst themselves on a playground. That's just not what it is.

A lot of this is very, very, very, very enthusiastic adults being invested over an investor, what

might I say? In sort of reading the text of this film and the way that it performs at the

box office as T. Leaves to sort of make assertations about what like Nintendo's thinking

of what their future is. And I get that that's, that is the thing that a lot of people enjoy.

I do it for a living sometimes. But when it comes to, I also believe in like trying to

meet a movie where it's at, right? And I don't think that the galaxy film is trying to hide

the, it knows it's simple, right? It's not sort of, I don't think that the, the, the

whizz bang. And here's another clip of it all is trying to hide the fact that the narrative

is thin. I think it understands that attention spains are getting shorter, right? People are

spending more time on TikTok and on shorts and platforms like that. And you can see it reflected

in the content that people make themselves. There is a certain kind of like faster,

twitchier cadence to the way, to the media that we're all sort of consuming and making. And I

think the film is trying to reflect that to a certain extent. Do I think that that's an inherently

great thing? Yeah, no, right? Hey, sometimes people where they're at isn't the greatest thing.

But I think I, I feel like I understand the logic behind it to a certain extent. And yeah,

looking at the film is what I think it is. It's not, there, there, there are far, far worse films

than this. I've seen, you know, I've seen, oh, it's worse than AI. And it's like, Hey, guys,

hey, man, I know, I know we are living in the era of hyperbole and engagement. But like, let's

try a little bit harder than that. Yes, I know it's the buzzword, but I would not dismiss the

Mario movies as sloppy. These are, these are well-crafted films. I think we can both agree, like

both of these films are objectively gorgeous, right? And I think that's something that really does

kind of highlight the thinness of the narrative. You're looking at these truly beautiful set pieces,

right? You're looking at these action sequences, which are bonkers. And you're listening to the

things that people are saying. And you're like, huh, there's a little bit of disparity here, right?

Like the energy that's coursing through this visually is not being matched on an narrative level.

And that can be that definitely I know as an adult who sits through a lot of these things. Yes,

that can be very frustrating. It's visually impressive. It's sonically impressive. And it's

clearly made with a lot of love for and familiarity with these characters and this universe.

But yes, I do long for a little more adventurousness, a little more of that kind of classic Nintendo

boundary straining and innovation. And there was a quote, Miyamoto, I think, said this to

variety back after the first movie, came out. He said, we were fearful of all the failure of past

IP adaptations where there's a license and a distance between the original creators and the creators

of the films, the fans get outraged and mad because the studios didn't do justice to the original

work. We really didn't want a backlash. And so that first movie felt like a movie where the

makers of the movie really didn't want a backlash. And Nintendo has been there before, of course,

because they were really the first into the breach with video game adaptations with the infamous

Super Mario Brothers movie in 1993. And as a time capsule, as a product of its era, that movie is

strange and entertaining. And how did this get made? And I thought that when they finally ventured

back into these waters, which, which took him probably long time, really, I thought, okay,

they're going to play it safe. It's going to be more or less a paint by Numbers Mario movie.

They're going to establish that Mario is a cinematic property. And then perhaps they will build on

that. Maybe that will be the foothold that they establish. That's the safe space. And then,

okay, maybe we can branch out of it. And that first movie just passed with flying colors,

just to leap to the top of the flagpole, made all the money, could not possibly have been offensive

to anyone on any level, really, right? It's a movie made for everyone. And so I thought, I hope

to against hope, maybe they take a few risks this time. I'm not saying they completely change up

the formula because the formula was immensely lucrative, but maybe in the spirit of the galaxy

games, which as you said, really did sort of overturn the Mario formula and felt so new and so

boundary breaking. Maybe there'd be a bit of that this time around. And there really isn't. So

you just have to kind of accept that going in and calibrate your expectations. It's sometimes fun.

It's inoffensive. It's faithful in some respects. It's fine. That is kind of the way that I

feel about this. And so I know that there's a bit of a critic versus civilian popular opinion divide

here. And I don't think it's so much that critics are, you know, sharpening their knives out to get

the Mario movie. It's just that, you know, you have higher expectations because of the pedigree

of the people involved in making these movies because of the feeling that the Mario games

have supplied for so long. And that reaction, you know, that always kind of gets my hackles

up a little bit. Just the, it's a kids movie. It's a show. It's a kids show. You know, we're aware

of the intended audience here. I don't think we're under any illusions. But that can be a way,

I think, to dismiss many of the things we love to watch and play and talk about here at The Ring

of Versa. And you know, there's sort of a soft bigotry of low expectations going on with the,

well, if it's for kids, does that mean there are no standards? You know, if it literally does

just hold their attention and gives your parents 90 minutes to go do something else while you are

glued to the screen, being babysat by the TV. And I say that as a dad, who does that often. So

believe me, I appreciate that. But is there more there possibly? And I'd like to think that there

could be because I always just rebel against the idea that you need to turn your brain off entirely

to enjoy something, to enjoy it with a different part of your brain. Absolutely. Not everything needs

to be some high level in depth, intellectual endeavor. But if I were strapped to a FMRI machine

while watching or playing something, I'd still like to have a measurable brain wave, even popcorn

kind of entertainment. We like it because on some level, it does make us think or care or feel

or laugh. There definitely could be. But I think something that's really important to keep in

mind is this is an intent that we're talking about, right? Like the reason that Nintendo is in

the position that it's in now is because they play, they make conservative bets. That has been their

MO for decades at this point. And it's something that oftentimes a company gets dinged for.

Why are you putting out software that's underpowered compared to your competitors? Why is your

update cycle not in sync and locked up with everyone else's, right? And in the, in the moment,

fans and commentators, it's very easy to sort of be like, well, you should be making all of these

sort of big gambles that sort of wow and dazzle us with the potential of what they could become.

But Nintendo has really settled into a posture that's more sort of about long-term success.

Big swings definitely can pay off, right? And again, I think this also plays into what makes this

film a little bit disappointing. Galaxy was both a very big deviation from previous Mario games,

and it was one of the games that really sort of got people into the concept of the Wii.

Right? It was really sort of firing on multiple levels to sort of show you that Nintendo

was doing something very boldly different and ambitious, and it ended up being really fun

after that we get the Wii U, right? And Nintendo has been not open about, but it's been very obvious

that they, in the same way that they don't want to have cinematic backfires, that sort of

aggravate fans because the IP isn't being adapted the way that they want it to be.

They don't want to make big gambles that blow up in their faces as a hardware manufacturer,

as a game producer, right? We've seen, we've seen various instances of that caution,

hesitation sort of being exhibited by the company in the past. And I think that given Nintendo,

they are not new to film production, but this is a new, this is a new era of them as a film

production company. They are being very cautious about how they spend their money and how much of

that money they're going to be able to make back, because the Mario films, they're big,

they're splashy, they take up a lot of oxygen when they first come out. They are just one part

of this new plan, you know, for this, you know, I don't know which era of Nintendo is, but

they're in theme parks and video games and movies now, and they are trying to really

sell themselves as a leveled up kind of lifestyle brand. And part of that growth plan is to

make sure that the next step that you move doesn't, you know, set you back too many, you know,

but buy too much financially. Now, does that lend to making the most captivating films?

Not necessarily. No. And coming out of the film, I can say, I have all these thoughts

not going around in my head and it all sort of makes sense for like Mario, right? One of the

company's big mascots. The approach that they've taken to making these two films is not something

or rather, I very much hope it's not the direction or the kind of thinking that the

company is applying to their future film plans, because I don't think that, you know, obviously

the big one that's on everyone's mind is the live action much in a Zelda movie. Yes.

I, a lot of the narrative choices that are made with the Mario movies, you can get away with

because it's animation. There's a certain kind of fiddlingness that an audience is just willing

to accept with like cartoon characters. The Zelda movie, we don't know, we still don't know a lot

about it, right? So I'm, I'm loads sort of speculated too, too much. But if the story, if the film

were an amalgam of multiple Zelda games, I would be tricky, right? Especially compared to Mario

games, Zelda games are sort of like pretty robust flushed out narratives from beginning to end with

your primary characters, your supporting characters are really compelling villain, you know,

built-in action sequences. It's like, it doesn't have to be a one-to-one translation, but

the source material was really giving you the framework for a beginning, middle, and story. So

remixing is fine, but there comes a certain point where that can become an issue. And, you know,

I don't necessarily know that what I'm looking for is a montage of linked through various years,

where he's just running through different versions of the forest and talking to

different versions of the decorative tree. It's like, hey man, this seems something

is fantastical as that world is. It seems like they are obviously going for a certain level of

grounded realism that the audience has meant to respond well to, and in order to really kind of

win the audience's trust that way, I think that the company really needs to lock in on

A Zelda story, to tell, and then tell it in a way that is, I don't say, faithful, but sort of like,

it feels like it's speaking to the ethos of a specific, you know, Zelda game.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the Nintendo conservatism, the famous, the

Gunpei Yokoi philosophy lateral thinking with withered technology. They just decided at some point

we're not going to be part of this arms race, to have fancier and flashier and higher powered

machines, but there is really the opposite of conservatism that sometimes comes into play.

Sometimes it's bold to be conservative technologically speaking, where you say we're going to do something

completely different from what our ostensible competitors are going to do, and we're going to

make the Wii, and we're going to make the Switch, and we're going to go portable, or we're going

to have touch screens, or we're going to have multiple screens, and sometimes that doesn't work.

It doesn't work so well with the virtual boy, even though that just got re-released oddly.

It didn't work so well with the Wii U, as you noted, but when it works, it works really well,

and it expands the tense, and Nintendo does things that other companies don't think of or don't risk,

and that's not so much the case with Switch 2. Switch 2 is a departure from that, where hey,

everyone loves the Switch, what if we just make it slightly better and slightly more powerful,

but more or less it's the same concept, and so I do hope that that doesn't signal a creative

conservatism, because Nintendo is now building itself as an entertainment company, not absolutely

a gaming company, and I think the emphasis is still on gaming. It's not as if gaming is an

afterthought. I think if anything, Nintendo sees these movies and theme parks as a way to just

get more people in that tent. We will introduce people. We're not already gamers, and then they will

become gamers because they've seen the Mario movies, and there's still that spark of creativity and

ingenuity in a lot of the games. So I just wish that there were a bit more of that in this movie,

and it doesn't have to be Pixar. We don't have to hold up Pixar as the be-all and-

It could be Dreamworks. It could be Dreamworks. Look, we could look to other

video game adaptations, even Nintendo-related ones. I think there's more character. There's

more personality in the Sonic movies, for instance, in Detective Pikachu.

Detective Pikachu is truly one of the best video game adaptation ever, and it's wild and unexpected,

but Detective Pikachu, to me, feels like such a skunk works project. They're like, look,

here's the idea to hear some money. We'll see. We'll see how it goes, and then it ends up being,

and it is doing a lot more experimental things, right? It's sort of like, hear all the Pokemon,

but they've been redesigned to fit into a live action world, and a lot of them look weird,

and they're not quite what you remember. It's not a coincidence that we don't see

as much merchandise of the live action Pikachu as we did a couple of years ago, because they're like,

look, that was cute, but like, get out of the way. A star is here to speak, and you're taking up

his light. The star being on model Pikachu. But I think, especially right now, I look at the

two Mario movies, and I don't say this disparagingly, they do feel very much like big commercials

from Mario, right? It's like, here's a little bit of this. Here's a little bit of that. If you like

this, go find the game where it comes from. You can play it on the Nintendo Switch. We're trying

to get as many of those games on that platform now, so that you can just access them, whatever.

And I do think it makes sense to when it's, it's, I can understand the logic to that decision

for Mario, right? He is one of their bread and butter characters, and I would not be surprised

if some of the internal thinking was. The Mario movies are inoffensive for everyone, short,

zippy, fun, and pretty to look at. And it's with other properties that we will try the kind of

experimentation that might subsequently make its way into the Mario films, right? I brought up

the Zelda film, and we will see what that is, because that's, that's going to be another

interesting data point and seeing the way that the studio is thinking about this, but I brought up

Fox earlier, and the pickman. The movie gives you reasons as to why they are there.

It does not, it does, oh, I want to get into, I'm not going to get too specific about it, but

the presence of so many non-Mario characters in the Mario movie obviously begs the question

in a post-Mario universe. All right, all these people are going to, they're going to have a

came up movie of some sort, and the only movie story game that makes any sort of sense,

sense for that would be Super Smash Brothers. Through, you know, the psychic connection that I

had with myself through all points in time, 10-year-old Charles loves that idea, right? Yeah, 35-year-old

Charles is very much like, hey now, hey now, we are two movies into this seemingly now-shared universe,

and, you know, teasing people at the very beginning of things is great. You know, the MCU would not

be what it is. We're not for Samuel Jackson just showing up in a trench coat talking about a team

is building, but because Nintendo is so new to this kind of making this specific kind of film,

I am a little trepidacious about what the future holds for Fox and them. As great as I actually do

think that Glenn Powell is... No, he's, he's a very good fox. Perfect fox. Yeah, he hints to know

it just like he's, he's charming, and he's a rogue. I was coming, as I was coming out of the theater,

I was sitting next to an older woman and her children, I think, and this woman was not familiar with

Star Fox at all, and she's speaking to some of the media reps, and she was like, I love that

fox guy. They should make a game about him. He's like Han Solo, and I'm like, you know, she's not

wrong. She's, all of those things are accurate, but Star Fox project is a saddle with all kinds of

complications. It's been so long since there was a Star Fox game. Does the general public Nintendo

fans know who Fox is? Yes. Does your average person on the street know who Fox McLeod is?

Maybe, maybe. Are they the kind of people who are going to get hyped up about a Fox movie or a Fox

streaming series somewhere? I'm not really sure, right? And the character's presence in the film is

not necessarily indicative of the fact that that's the next step, and you know, we're settling in

for the Fox movie, and then it's going to be the Tode series, and then it's going to be Kirby

Airwriters, which is a ride that is also a part of the cinematic universe, and then there's,

you know what I mean? I don't know. I don't necessarily know that that's what it's going to be,

but if it was, I don't know that that would bow the best thing, because it feels like before any

sort of major crossover is to hit the screens. Nintendo would do well to demonstrate that it

can tell other kinds of stories, right? That was always kind of the, I think, the lost promise of

the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Back when I used to cover these things obsessively, the

promise was always like, you've got your Avengers movie, and that's everybody. You've got your

Doctor Strange, and so it's a little magical, a little horror-focused, and you've got your winter

soldier stuff, and that's all S, B, and O's, and Intrigue, and that's kind of sort of true,

but as that franchise got bigger, the machine that is Marvel in the way that it sort of

flattens its storytelling out became more and more, you could feel it more and more on the screen,

and now it all kind of has kind of, it's all been reduced from signal to just kind of flattened

noise, and I as an Nintendo fan, I want that not to happen for Nintendo's cinematic plans for

the future. Yeah, and I don't get the sense necessarily when I watch these movies that they are

in service of crafting some larger overarching cinematic universe. I think that's what will happen

because these movies are making an enormous amount of money, and there's a demand for it, but

it doesn't seem to me, they could be going further when it comes to the setup for that sort of thing.

Miyamoto has cast some cold water on that, again, in that polygon interview, he said,

right off the bat, I'll say that unlike something like Super Smash Bros. I don't think you'll have

a situation where all Nintendo characters would be joining. It's not as if, now he'll put

Pikmin in anything because I'm in Love's Pikmin, and I'm with him, but these characters are not

necessarily banding together in service of some larger quest or arc or narrative, and that's

kind of what I meant by the fact that this, it is a sequel technically, but is there a big bad?

Well, there's Bowser, which is just always the big bad, and you can keep fighting Bowser forever,

but are we building to something here? Are we thinking, oh, this is a trilogy in the making,

and there's going to be some grand climax? It feels more to me like, you could just keep making

this sort of Mario movie forever, really? And you can just keep breaking Bowser out of prison,

and Mario can team up with Peach, and they can have some adventures, and they can go various places,

and have various cameos, and then we'll do all over again in a few years, but it doesn't feel

to me as if, ha, see, I'm connecting the dots, I know where this is going, this is building up to

this arc from the comics or something, right? Which is the way that we all watch comic book movies

and superhero movies. There's actually a little less than of that than I think there could be,

and Miyamoto and Chris Smeld Andre of Elimination said as much in that interview where

there isn't really someone who's kind of workshopping what are the next 10 movies looking like,

who's going to be in this, who's going to be in that? You can see even in the Sonic movies,

right? There's always like the next hero or the next villain is introduced in the post-credits scene,

and okay, that's where we're going with this. I don't really know having watched this galaxy movie,

what the next Mario movie will be, it can be virtually anything, and all these characters who

are introduced, you know, Fox doesn't have much to do in this movie. He looks kind of cool,

he gives Glenn Palo a chance to say some wisecracks, he does that really well. He's really just a

plot device, he's a mechanism to get our characters from point A to point B, because he has an

R-wing and you can do a barrel roll, and obviously he does. And so so much of these Mario movies is

just sort of going from place to place, and I was rewatching the original Mario movie a few days

ago, because I like to be prepared, got to do my homework, got to refresh my memory on the

Mario movie, and it's very hard for me even to focus on it, you know, like I'll be like, okay,

I got to really closely watch this movie so I can remember every detail, and then suddenly my

mind wonders, and a few scenes passed, and up, we're fighting a new Glenn here, and we're in a

different place, and it's just all sort of really frenetically passing from point A to point B,

and we've got to get this thing, and then we've got to go there, and the movies never really slow

down. No. That's not the point, and you know, that's what Mario games are, right? Like they're not

really about slowing down so much, especially in their original incarnation, there's there's a

timer, you want to go as fast as possible. Point A to point B, don't that. Side to side left to

right, right? And there are even sequences in these films that are very much based on Mario

side-scrolling platforming gameplay, and I quite enjoy those segments and sequences, except that

they just make me want to play Mario, you know, because the magic of Mario is its interactivity.

That's the point. That's the point. The past experience of watching cutscenes in the games, or

just watching someone else play Mario, you know, I watch these movies, and my my figures are just

like itching, you know, I'm just like twitching, I want a gamepad in my hand, so I can actually

play a version of this thing, and every time there is kind of an emotional moment, you know,

there are relationships here, there's the father, son, bowser, bowser, junior relationship,

there's the Rosalina peach relationship, there's the Mario peach relationship, but none of those

is really explored in any great depth, they're just sort of side quests, little little

colors, subtle influences, and then we're on to the next battle and we're on to the next world,

and so I do wish that there were a bit more heart, maybe hearts the wrong word, I think the movie's

heart is in the right place, you know, but there's just beyond the most banal lessons that one

could insert into a movie like this, there's just nothing particularly poignant or memorable

emotionally for me, see the thing is I actually thought that this stuff with bowser and bowser

junior, again not to get too heavily into spoilers, but as sort of, I don't call it emotionally

a nerd, but just sort of like as emotionally smooth as these movies are, in the first film you do

have this sort of, I wouldn't even call it a streak of jealousy, but there is some sort of like

seed of tension between the brothers because of the way that their lives have turned out, you know,

life has not turned out the way that they wanted, and Mario's kind of like am I a failure,

I have difficulty trying my parents themselves to their families, yeah, there's some of that,

and then the brother's bond at the end and their bond is what saves them, that was fine,

I actually really appreciate it, the film sort of, it's not, it's not, I wouldn't necessarily go

so far as to call it a joke, but the film's like yeah bowser is bad, he does not see this boy very often,

and that negligence is why he wants to kill everyone now, and that's like that's a pretty sort of

easy low-hanging fruit joke, but then the film does sort of, I was surprised that the film

gives bowser an arc that does make it seem as if there is some sort of emotional complexity going

on with him that we as an audience and Mario and the rest are quick to write off, but it's actually

very there, and you the audience member are able to sort of see the truth in it, because he

keeps doing it when it's just him and the kid by themselves, right, there is a sort of regret and

recognition of his own role in turning his kid into a monster, I thought was actually very kind of

point in for this kind of film, especially given that because it shines so bright in like one

scene or two, you feel it's absence everywhere else, and it's kind of like if this was carried

throughout the film as a bit more of a stronger through line, like show us some of Bowser at

boarding school beating up other kids, because it won't return his phone calls or something, right,

those are, but again, like I just I recognize that I would have enjoyed that film,

but it is not the film that exists. No, it's not, no, and so yes, we do have to judge these things

based on what they are aspiring to be, but there is also that element of limiting well what they

could be, while still being a kid's movie, while still being a four quadrants success, while still

appealing to everyone, but you know, I watch a lot of kids content because I have a kid and some of

it is obviously rewarding on multiple levels, right, and some of it really lives up to multiple

rewatches and you can be a grown-up and you can enjoy it, maybe on a different level than say my

daughter does, but we can both get something out of that, and I expect to watch this Mario movie

with my daughter at some point, and I imagine that she'll enjoy it, and I will enjoy her enjoying it.

But I don't know that I look forward to watching it so much as I actually do look forward to and

enjoy watching some of the things that she watches, and that I think the part that I get stuck on

is that that very much applies to Nintendo games, and so I wish that that quality, because Nintendo

games are for all ages, but they are delightful for all ages, equally delightful for all ages, and my

daughter and I, we play Mario Tennis, we play Mario Kart, I read her Mario books before bedtime,

right, so we can both appreciate and love those things, and they work on multiple levels, and

the movies just don't have that same sort of spark, that creative genius to them, and I think

that's because the gameplay is the magic of Mario, right, and so that's when I question myself

thinking, well, what would that look like? What am I longing for exactly here? Because Mario is

designed to be amorphous and malleable, and someone who can fit into every game and every genre.

He's a mascot character, that's the point of Mario, and another Miyamoto quote this was 15

years ago, he said, when we create games, the gamer really is the main character,

in that regard it may not really matter who the main character is on screen, and so when you

port that to movies, it still applies, but all you have is the screen, right, and so I think what

I'm longing for, because I sort of look, we were in an advanced screening, maybe we were in

the same screening for all I know, but it was a packed theater, and yes, you had press and critics

there, but you also had people who just got into this early viewing for whatever reason, and there

were plenty of kids there, and there were a lot of times when I just sort of, instead of watching

the movie, I was watching people watch the movie, and there were a lot of extended silences,

because there aren't that many laughs, there are long stretches where there aren't jokes,

exactly, you know, it's not a super joking movie, it's not, it's not very funny, there are

sight gags of course, but there were times when even the kids weren't really cracking up, and you

could kind of hear a pin drop in the movie theater, and then things would pick up again, and people

would get into it, or there would be a cameo, and everyone would clap and laugh, and we'd do the

decaprio-pointing meme, you know, this is a movie where your arm will get tired, because you'll

just be doing the decaprio-pointing meme the entire running time, which mercilessly is only 90

something minutes, but I do wish that there were a bit more of that, and maybe it's a willingness

to poke fun at itself, and the conventions of the games that they're showing there, like in the

first movie, for instance, I appreciated that Mario hates mushrooms, right, and he has to keep

like force-feeding himself mushrooms to get the power-ups, or, you know, lumilees longing for death,

right, the nihilistic luma, who does appear again in this movie, but less than I would like, I just

want to- She's truly one of the best characters in this. Give me the lumilee stance, just the standalone

spin-off movie, right? It's just lumilean therapy. Yeah, but that's the kind of thing where it's just like,

okay, this is a little bit irreverent, this is sort of toying with the formula, or poking fun

in the formula, as opposed to purely porting the formula, and I wish there were just a bit more of

that, like, Lord and Miller style Lego movie, you know, still appeals to all ages, but just a bit more

inventiveness, because smooth was the word you used, and I think that's perfect, because

it's polished, in a sense, that almost repels my attention, you know, other movie a couple

days ago, and the details are already fading from my mind. It's like, okay, right, they went

from this galaxy to that galaxy, and then what did they do? And it doesn't really matter, right?

So, yeah, just a little more stickiness, almost more rough edges, I'd like a little bit.

No, I totally- I think we feel very similarly in that regard, but again, I do think that this

just speaks to the conservatism, because the fact that there are things, like, Wimli in the film,

does, it makes it obvious that internally there is an understanding that those kind of jokes are

funny, right? The fact that you bring a character, like, Wimli back, says, that, all right, well,

you understood that people liked it, and you said, sure, let's do it again. Yeah, we're

bad-capped, we're better. You write the decision to roll that back, I'm not entirely sure,

right? I think that one of my- one of the things that I could have done with a little bit less

with, I love seeing Wart and Berto and Rob love that for them, happy-belated trans-day visibility,

but there's a certain- there's a certain, uh, math to moviemaking, right? It is a zero-sum game

in terms of screen time, more time that you're spending with these sort of not-so-flirt superfluous,

but these deviations from the main plot, the last time that you have to really flesh that plot

out, either with narrative substance or with jokes that- like, either with jokes, like, good jokes,

take time, right? Like, you have to build the timing in, and there's all sorts of- when you have a

movie that's as dense as this, on the press circuit, all of the lead actors have been talking about

the references, and it's like, yes, it is reference to the movie, but the more references you have,

the fewer opportunities you have for a good old classic joke, right? Or for an inversion of a

character that you're familiar with, and I think that the decision was made that those things

weren't as important, which, again, probably won't hurt the box office for this. But, if and when

we do get a third Mario film, I feel like we're gonna get a Donkey Kong thing first. But if

and when they do it again, food we want, shame on me, foamy twice. What are we doing? Foamy thrice.

All right, you guys. What's- what's- what's going on here? But I think, you know, if the second

is a success, that is- to my mind, that is enough data to say, all right, look, these will work,

right? People will show up for these. How do we level these up? How do we sort of turn them into

something that is more critically impressive and more satisfying for the adult audience that's

going to be showing up into the movie theater? Is that- is that third beat like a, hey, there's

a new game and there's a movie adaptation and there's a sort of parody between them? I don't know,

maybe, but I will say the Mario Galaxy movie is a fascinating cultural object. We're like a

fascinating beat in Nintendo's history, I think, because I think it does sort of speak to them

being in a very sort of like, I'm not really sure how we're going to move forward space and how

this turns out is actually going to have big influence and determining what our next step is.

Yeah, and look, if it puts some smiles on faces, it entertains some kids, it gives parents time

to take a break. It makes Nintendo a mountain of money so the company can keep making great games.

Wonderful. Everybody wins. There's no downside. I think it's just that my appreciation for my

reverence for Nintendo's creativity just makes me want more than maybe I'm getting a bit greedy,

and I understand that, but I just want these movies to be as special as the games that they're

based on, and maybe that's a tall order, right? And I should just accept them for what they

are and enjoy them for what they aren't to some degree. I do, and I have, and again, you know,

don't put in the newspaper that I got mad about the Mario movie. I almost wish that I were mad

about the Mario movie because that would meant that it provoked some strong emotion in me.

You know, it's hard for me to imagine really loving it or hating it or feeling much of anything

about it, and I'm sure that many people do, and I don't want to diminish their feelings, and if

you really love these movies and cherish them, then I am glad. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed,

I guess, just slightly disappointed, even understanding who these are for and what they are

designed to do. Do you think that these movies are for hardcore diet in the wool,

Nintendo kids, long-time Mario lovers? Do you think that they are more made for them,

or do you think it's more for the woman in your screening who said, hey, that's Star Fox character,

they should do something with that guy, because on the one hand, the references, obviously,

which they have crammed into every frame, well, that's for the people who will recognize those

references to some degree. But then also, maybe this is why I want more because I am so conditioned

to think of Mario as the standard bearer, as the thing that's going to reinvent the form and the

medium, and thus I have higher expectations for the movie than someone who is peripherally aware

of Mario and his cultural footprint, but hasn't really had that hands-on experience.

I think that Mario is a bit more for people like me who are familiar with Mario, but I consider

myself a Mario casual. I recognize, I've played quite a few Mario games and had some fun,

they're not my favorite games, because there's a simplicity to Mario that's always kind of

been like, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, you jump on the thing, you eat the thing, you throw the

fireball at the thing, you save the princess, great, and say, oh, now we're doing in three dimensions,

oh, we're cleaning up as we do with what a concept. That's Mario. And I think that the film

is, it's trying to, it's trying to serve a bunch of different audiences at the same time,

and I think that's part of, again, that's part of the reason that I don't want to call it

lowest common denominator, but it's why it's trying to cast a broad net. It's like, hey, hardcore,

die-hard fans who've been playing this from the jump, you may want the Peter Jackson treatment

on this. No, we, we simply, we simply cannot do that. Here is a reference to a whole bunch of

products that you recognize, have fun with that. We've seen your YouTube videos. We know that you

like to watch things frame by frame, and that's fun for you, so do that. Yeah, I know it's,

it's frustrating for audiences when they hear people try to craft the movie that they want to see

in their mind as opposed to accepting the movie that is actually on screen, right? And so

I fully understand that. But I do, I do, so it's trying, I feel like it's trying to serve

multiple audiences. I do, I don't want to say that older fans are an afterthought. They're

clearly not, because you know, a lot of this is an nostalgia play in the studio. The studios

are banking on that, you know, building butts and seats, but I do think that ultimately

these films are meant to function as ads for games, for the older people who have the money to

buy these games. And for kids, it is just kind of sort of meant to be cotton candy entertainment,

right? It's beautiful. It's big. You touch it in a kind of like, waltz, a little bit. Yeah,

yeah. Melted in the mouth. But it's sweet as it goes down, and you're like, well, that was great.

The too much of that you'll be cavities, right? You do need some substance, you know,

some nutrition in your diet. Hopefully that's, you know, the, the depth and complexity that this

could become. But in order for that to be the case, Nintendo would have to make some pretty

serious decisions about like, are you like, are we going to lock in and make a Mario story or

a Mario film with more dramatic elements into it? Like, are we, are we going to get into Mario's

interiority? Is that what the Luigi's Mansion? Is that if there's a Luigi's Mansion film?

Is it going to be about what it's like to live in a shadow of your older brother and to be scared

of your own shadow all the time? Maybe. That I would watch as a long time Luigi's Mansion

and that's the thing, right? Like, as a great job. Yeah. As a fan, I know that that's in there,

right? I know that I know that those beats could be explored in an interesting way in a Luigi

film is Nintendo confident to lead with that energy. I don't confident enough to lead with that

energy. I'm not entirely sure yet, right? This is the second of these big films and maybe they're

like, let's see, let's just make sure that the first one wasn't a fluke. It's not exactly

something that you can prove by basically just doing the same thing a second time, but at the very

least it's given them another reference point to be like, all right, we're here. We can make,

we're part of the billion dollar movie club. Cool. How do we get more interesting with this?

Yeah. This movie is going to go gangbusters at the box office. Watch out, Hail Mary. It's time for

Hail Mario. And we have been hailing Mario, but also in a qualified sense. You know, I almost wish

Yoshi, love Yoshi, cute, cuddly, also horrifies me on some level though. And you know, when

when he edgifies people, I just imagine being trapped in a Yoshi egg and it's just it's both

fascinating and terrifying because his body is just like incasing you and calcium,

instantaneously almost. Much like Kirby, of course, is disturbing on an existential level,

right? The Kirby's like a void. He's like a book. He's just fear with a void inside of him.

And I can wrap my mind around that. And you're just like, you're in the nothingness and then you

pop out of it. But like Yoshi, that's, that's, that's, that's just a dinosaur with like a whole

gastrointestinal system. Yeah, Kirby could consume me and steal my talents and then spit me out

like nothing, but at least they're not stuck in an egg. So yeah, like the, the body-harve aspect of

Yoshi, you know, give me more body-harve in my Mario movie. That's what all the kids are

clamoring for. That's what I have appreciated a joke where someone gets eaten by a Yoshi egg

and when they hatch, they're like, where was I just now? Yeah, absolutely, right? Like, that's

funny. Right. When Yoshi is introduced, there's a little flashback montage of him just causing chaos.

And it's maybe the most entertaining thing about Yoshi in the whole movie. And I like the

inclusion of Yoshi here. But literally the whole premise of whatever the most recent Jurassic World

movies have been, like, don't much better, done much better in like a 10-second montage.

Yeah, you know, sometimes they experiment visually too, like the credits are kind of papercraft,

almost paper Mario style. And, and sometimes there's just direct eat bits. This is, and yes,

this is an SNES. I wonder whether that's just an homage or is that to save some money on the

budget maybe, but you know, there are times where they get inventive like that. And yes, maybe

it's also an Easter egg in itself, but it's also something a little new and different. And,

and maybe we can just before the end here segue to a little bit more spoiler territory. Though,

again, I think it says something about the movie that most of what would constitute a spoiler in

my mind is just who is in it and who's not, you know, what are the cameos more so than the actual

point-send story developments. But, you know, I read a study that was published earlier this month

by researchers at the University of Kansas and, and much love to all the academics out there.

But this, I think, fits squarely into the category of, did we need to study this? You know,

did this really require research? I'll just, I'll read you the synopsis here. New research from

the University of Kansas has found that people with strong connections to a character or story

were more likely to spot Easter eggs. And when they did, it not only heightened their enjoyment,

but they were more likely to engage in fan behavior, such as posting about the experience online

or rewatching. So, groundbreaking stuff here from the University of Kansas. If you are a fan,

you have strong connections to a character or story. You're more likely to spot the Easter eggs

and you're more likely to enjoy the Easter eggs who would have known. But I had that experience when

I was watching this movie. And at the end of the movie, there is a cameo spoilers by Mr. Game

and Watch. Mr. Game and Watch is deployed in the final boss battle against Bowser. And the guy

who was sitting next to me, by himself, did this loud, braying, almost, almost performative laughter

upon citing Mr. Game and Watch, sort of like projecting to the rest of the theater. I get that,

you know, I get that research. I get the reference. That's for me. I know who that character is.

And I got it too. You know, I know Mr. Game and Watch. I recognize Mr. Game and Watch and like

on some level, okay, this is kind of cute. This is kind of clever. This kind of Game and Watch was

the dude. The dude. Yeah. Right. Maybe, right. Maybe Game and Watch is just his favorite. And he was

there seated, hoping to see Mr. Game and Watch. And this just paid off all his hopes and desires

for this film. Whereas I'm sitting there thinking, where's Wario? You're really going to do my man

Waluigi like that, neither of them in this movie, but just sort of observing that man's reaction

next to me. I felt like some sort of anthropologist, you know, observing the fan experience.

Because I get it. I mean, I'm a fan of many things, including these things, including Nintendo.

And yet, I guess it just takes a little more than that, you know, to get me doing the full

gaffa because it's like, yeah, yeah, I get it, you know, okay, I've played that one. I've seen

that thing, but that alone just kind of putting that in the thing is not enough for me, I guess.

And so there's so much of that. So like the first movie, there are two post credits scenes. So yes,

you must stay until the very bitter ends, the credits roll all the way. And like the first movie,

there is a scene where we see Bowser imprisoned in a different prison, probably not a more secure

prison this time. And then at the very end, the first movie, we saw the Yoshi egg. And then this

time, we see Princess Daisy. So we have Peach. We have Rosalina. Now we have Daisy. So we know

that that's where we're going with the third film, presumably, but there's not much more buildup

to, oh, okay, this is what they're adapting. This is what they're doing. This is what they're

building toward because both of these films end so abruptly. Have you felt that too? We talked

about how this one just kind of picks up where the first one left off or not even really where it

left off. It just sort of starts. And it also just sort of ends. Both of these movies, when they

ended, I thought, oh, wait, oh, that's it. We're doing the credits already, which again, I guess

says something about the movie because like, you know, did we learn that much along the way? Was

this truly cathartic and transformative? Is there that much to recap what we went through here?

You know, it's just we went on an adventure. And then that adventure is done. And we will soon

embark on another adventure. But this one is over for now. The movies definitely end very abruptly.

Yeah. It is something you can, you can feel when they're coming to an end, it's like once you,

when you lock in on like the nut graph of the movie, like, all right, what's the goal here? This

one is we got a stop-alzer from using his boom's data bias that uses Rosalina as its power source.

And so it's like, all right, so once they get to Rosalina, this movie's done because you've told

me so little about her that you couldn't possibly be spending 15 more minutes of conversation

with her. And so once they find her and blow up the machine, it's like, yeah, we're done. All right,

bye, you guys. Yep, that is also my experience of Mario games. It's just like, oh, absolutely.

Yeah, princess princess. Yeah, princess here. She's gone again, chase her there. And at the end,

you find the getter and then credits. Yes. In terms of like what the day's a reveal sort of

suggests about the future, not a lot, right? Not a lot. In the same way that the guy in your

screening was geek to see Mr. Game and watch, which is so funny because like of all the Mario

characters to pop up in this or of all the Nintendo characters to pop up in this kind of thing,

Game and watch actually makes a certain kind of sense, right? Because he does feel sort of very

much like a part of Nintendo's history, right? And sort of like a part of Nintendo's identity

back when they were making those kinds of two-dimensional black and white games, right? But also

Game and Watch. I feel like the Game and Watch cameo is for all the Game and Watch smashmanes out

there who like to be trolls. And it's like, that's right, our guy up there. I felt a very similar

kind of way when Daisy showed up. I love Daisy, Princess of Sarasaland. And it's unfortunate that

the biggest sort of like press Daisy's gotten recently is that meme of all the Princesses

together, where it's like, let's all share Rajas and not tell Daisy. And now it's all like, let's

all show up in a Mario movie and definitely tell Daisy, but late so that she chose them at the

very end. Yeah. What does this suggest about the future? It could be a princess thing, right?

But even still, if Yoshi was the, you know, the final tease at the end of the last film.

And he's in this film, but he doesn't play a humongous role, you know? He's just sort of,

he kind of becomes the de facto third brother who's just kind of there to make cute noises

and jump around and stuff. One would imagine and one would hope, and by one I mean me, that even

when Daisy is introduced into as she has a bit more going on, like what Sarasaland's whole deal?

But, you know, looking at the way that Rosalina is sort of handled in this film, we don't learn too

much about her, right? No, well, yes and no, right? So we don't see all that much of what her life

with the loom is as like and what sort of her existence as a princess is like. But instead we do get,

you know, a bit of new canon that I'm sure will rub people all the different kinds of ways.

But they're like, Peach and Rosalina, they were sisters, which is, yeah.

Which is like how he did that. It's a fan theory, but it's, it's kind of confirmed here.

Hey, these two blonde princesses from another planet kind of look like one another.

Might be related. Shopping.

Coming out of the theater, I thought to myself, between, you know, Peach and Rosalina are

related and also here's Daisy, is the next beat something with princesses and getting into their

whole deal, which could be there isn't really one game to sort of riff on for that kind of narrative.

And that's not to say that, you know, the only way that these things can be made is that they're

based on pre-existing games, but it's a direction that the studio could go, right? We recently got

the new Peach game for this way. Right. I have a, I have a, I use a cancoring for Princess Peach

showtime, the movie, but yeah, it's just, it's not, it's not. It wasn't high on

list of things that I was like hoping for. The game itself is, I mean, it is sort of

cinematic at a sense. It's just like, it transports Peach to all these sort of movie sets and settings

in a way, but yeah, I, I did crave a little more from that Peach Rosalina relationship because

you get that reveal, but then they spend almost no time together, right? They basically have no

real interactions with each other. Yeah. And, and all hail Brie Larson, our, our gamer queen, who is

clearly just tickled to be in this movie. And she's just a real gamer. I mean, she, she goes

way back. She's been clearing consistent on that. She's having a, a ball on the press tour. So,

I'm very happy for her to live her dream, but yeah, personally, in this movie, but yeah,

ultimately, you know, Peach and Rosalina, they, they touch hands through glass, right? And that

triggers their special connection and that's various games for which mountain. Yeah, but then,

but then what, you know, they kind of go their separate ways. I haven't seen so she was a baby,

by girl. Yeah. Yeah. She's not much more to it, but, but that's the Mario movies for you. So,

yeah, look, people are of course fantasy casting the Super Smash Brothers movie. And even if

they're pumping the brakes on that a bit, I mean, sure, would I watch that? Would I like that?

Yes. Then again, we have Super Smash Brothers. We have the games and the fun

of those games is sure seeing the same character share the screen, but also hitting them against

each other and playing. It's not so much, you know, I'm not playing Super Smash Brothers for the

plot, you know, no offense to master hand or what's a great master hand, is a deep and rich villain.

Great, big bad, great, great culminating enemy adversary for all of our ninja. There's so many

shots in this new movie of Mario's glove hands that I kept looking at myself like,

our glove's going to fall into a black hole and turn evil. Fine. Yeah. If you have to do it,

then I guess that's where that makes sense, but yeah. It doesn't happen, which gave me some

relief. Right. We have so many Super Smash Brothers games and bring on more by all means, but

would it be so much fun to just watch those characters, Brawl, as opposed to controlling them,

because these movies do develop into sort of the third act of the Marvel movie territory, where

it's just, you know, people jump in and bashing the other shiny things and you just sort of

zone out in your eyes on focus, like it's all well done and well choreographed, but one battle blends

into the next, really. So, you know, the fact that we have Star Fox in a Mario game and we're

crossing the streams and it's the Mario Multiverse, and oh, now there are no limits in any Nintendo

character and theory appear in any other Nintendo property and that's intriguing. But then if the

story telling stays at this level, then how intriguing really is it other than just, you know,

we want to smash our action figures together and see them get smashed together. I'm with you,

but I'd rather play that than watch it. In defense of the Smash movie Truthers,

once you get to Brawl, there is a story there, right? There is definitely a story that could be used.

It is just kind of like, is it small soldiers? Small soldiers meets toy story, you know, with all

of your favorite Nintendo pals. It's just that the studio hasn't earned that yet, right? Like,

that's something that part of the reason there's so much of so much of the idea of a Smash

Bros movie feels like is Mario or rather is Nintendo trying to fast track its way to an Avengers

crossover event. And the reason that the Avengers movie works and the reason that, you know,

the Smash Bros games work is because those two things are the culmination of a bunch of other

things that are, you know, are building up to them in advance that sort of give you a reason to

be invested in the characters. It's not a one-to-one, right? But there are Nintendo games coming out

in between each of the Smash's that give you feelings about those characters so that when you see

them, you know, fighting the, goodness, the sub, again, when you see all the Nintendo characters

fighting the subspace, I'm a sorry, it's like goodness, I don't know what this is and this has nothing

to do with your world, but how fascinating. Yeah. In order for Nintendo to sort of put itself

into that position, it does have to sort of build out a library of these kinds of stories. You've got,

you know, you've got Mario, the simple one, fine. You've got Zelda coming up. We don't know what

that tone is going to be exactly, but sure, that's another one. Donkey Kong could be one. And

if the studio plays its cards, right, that could definitely pay off in spades, you know,

a decade down the line, but I think rushing it and being a little too aggro about it could easily

make this backfire in a way that the company wants to avoid. And to its credit, I don't get the sense

that Nintendo is trying to speedrun the franchise building. I think that they're just making movies

and they're just telling some stories and will that eventually culminate in some kind of crossover

event? Yeah, almost certainly if these keep making tons of money, but I don't get the sense that

it's all in service of that, of the almighty dollar, even though it is definitely going to make

a lot of dollars. And it's interesting, I think, you know, we're all kind of playing general manager,

right? We're just, what's our corporate strategy? How can you roll this out even as we sort of

bemoan that we all engage in it? That tendency, you know, I wrote a piece for the ringer

years ago about what an endosynomatic universe would look like. We all like to speculate about

this. And yet, yeah, we don't want it to be so transparent on the screen that that's what you're

trying to do, that the movie itself feels like an afterthought, just like we're checking this box

so that we can get to this destination, because we know from many other interconnected universes

that you never really reach the destination, right? Just always a reset until the next stop along

the way. That's sort of landed marvel in this sort of unenviable position of having to claw

its way back into not relevance, but into people's good graces. And it's another, it is another

data point towards the people who are like, look, these Mario movies do need more substance to them,

because what it's the, if the thing can be satisfying on its own as a standalone, that's how you

are in the trust. When you start to roll out the ideas for crossover. Yes, we all have deep-seated

attachments to these characters and these properties, but do we have them to the movies themselves?

And I'm sure that there are kids who are forging those connections to these characters and

these properties through the movies, and maybe that will be a gateway to the games. Maybe it won't,

right? And so, you know, I'm coming to this from a different perspective as a washed man who's

as old as Mario is as a franchise, essentially. So, you know, Mario's 40, I'm turning 40 like,

this is our perspective. So if the kids discover the wonders of Nintendo through these movies,

I'm all for it. And, you know, it arrives at an interesting time in terms of the Switch's

life cycle or the Switch 2, because Nintendo reportedly is cutting Switch 2 production in the US

after a slow holiday sale season that has been blamed. In part, you know, yes, it's

prices and probably several consoles increased in price while we have been recording this episode,

but it's also a lack of the flagship first-party system sellers. Even though there's Mario Kart,

even though there's been Anza, even though there are multiple Pokemon games that are really

kind of carrying for Nintendo right now, you haven't had the Zelda game yet, understandably,

and you haven't had the 3D Mario, and Leaker, Nate the Hate, who is one of the more

reputable Nintendo Leakers, I suppose, recently reported Nintendo's upcoming plans,

and, you know, this is someone with a fairly solid track record of having been accurate in the past,

and according to the Leaker, there's an Ocarina remake of some sort coming later this year,

and a new Star Fox game. So, if that's the case, you can sort of see what's happening here,

right? So, you re-release Galaxy and Galaxy 2. You get people familiar with those properties

excited for the movie. You know, you put out a Mario Tennis game in which Baby Mario and Luigi

play a major part, and then that comes back into play in the movie. Then you introduce Star Fox

into the movie, and then you roll out the first Star Fox game in a decade, right? And the woman

in your theater will be so happy to know that, yeah, this is a character who has a life beyond

this multiplex, and another report, you know, not a shocker, but no 3D Mario until 2027,

supposedly, and so the wait will continue there, and it's just can Nintendo keep people interested

with some of the, you know, lower tier properties, no offense to Fox, right? But, you know,

will that be enough to sustain people's interests, and will the 3D Mario movie keep for a while,

because people are, you know, given the Mario movie to entertain them until then. So, you know,

to put it in the context of that corporate strategy, and the switch to some of the sales flagging

in the U.S. at least, you can kind of piece things together and see what they're thinking,

but even the Mario movie as much money as it will make for gamers, which we are here at Budmash,

you know, this is not the main event, right? Like this is, yeah, this is the appetite,

whether this is the amused bush for the Mario masterpiece that we hope we will get some time soon.

A Fox game coming on after this makes all the sense in the world, because it's like, what is he doing

here? It would have made, it would have made more sense if Olimar showed up and gave them a ride,

yeah, just because, just because Olim, you know, the Pikmin franchise has been a little bit more

active recently, right? And yeah, it's kind of cute. Not as much room, though, in Olimar's ship,

as in our win. He hit a button, the ship gets bigger, who knows, oh wow, who knew who could do that?

But that kind of corporate synergy does feel like classic Nintendo, we've got a game coming out,

put him in the movie. I feel like if if work had been restarted on Metroid 4 and it had been delayed

for, you know, for a more polished final product that felt a bit more like a modern game,

is not out of the realm of possibility that Samus Iran could have showed up to give them a ride,

who's to say. That's for, you know, our ultimate universe sells to ponder over.

Yep. I love all of those rumors. I'm the most excited about an occur enough time, you know,

remake, because it is, it's, it's, it's, I'll just be honest about it. She has been gone for too long.

She has not been allowed to thrive, you know, in the Nintendo ecosystem, for too long,

and if there are characters that really genuinely do need to be reintroduced to the populace in

a big way, it is classic chic with modern graphics. I feel like occur enough time with

Breath of the Wild style exploration and climbing, which is, yeah, suddenly you can't find

which shoes anywhere, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we have discussed this movie for

almost as long as the movie itself runs. That's true. Is it a great movie? Is it a cinematic classic?

Perhaps not. Is it a crowd pleaser? Almost certainly. Is it a money maker?

Indutably, will it be more than a money maker? Perhaps not. But it depends whether you want it to

be, whether you need it to be, to be satisfied. But hopefully we have given you some sense of what

to expect. And as always, love talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on and for

covering this stuff. My pleasure. And stay tuned, because this is not the last coverage of

these Super Mario Galaxy movie on the Ring of Respeed this week. The Midnight Boys, QPew will

also give their takes later this week. And but mash, we'll be back later this month. We've

got some big games to cover. We will be talking about Prague motto. We will be talking about mouse,

PI for hire, Saros, and much more. You can contact us at Ring of Vers gaming at gmail.com.

Thank you to Devon Monado for producing this episode. Thank you to our junior Ram Gopal for his

senior podcast management. Go see the Super Mario Galaxy movie, because, well, if you don't,

you'll be a little left out. You know that everyone else will. Careful out there. Don't get

got by any fake gaming news from April 1st. Much like Mario on the big screen, but mash, we'll be back.