Is the US Pushing the World to the Brink? | Silk and Steel

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Hello and welcome to another episode

of the Silk and Steel podcast.

Today we have back on our show, Ainar,

who has been a long-term resident of China.

But the fact that Ainar, that you are American,

you know full side, you know, you know,

America very well, you know, China very well.

And we are at a very crucial juncture

of the sign of American relationship.

And this is why I like to pick your brains

a little bit on the current situation

between China and United States.

Because you have your networks,

you know how things work inside out.

There's a lot of, let's just get to the recent news,

you know, with US kidnapping of President Maduro

of Venezuela.

Now I see a lot of spin, you know,

in the social media as well as mainstream media.

And somehow this was a great victory

for the Trump administration.

Because now United States has control

of all the world's largest oil reserve.

And this is a great humiliation for China

because in our Chinese envoy,

we're in Venezuela to meet with Maduro

five hours before the US operation began.

And now, you know, Trump is somehow

going to cut off the oil flow to China.

And I even see news headlines saying

that, oh, this is going to put Xi Jinping on notice

because now China will not have the oil

to do a Taiwan operation.

To me, this sounds very ridiculous,

but you know, nobody listened to me.

So I would like to hear from you, Aida,

you know, your take on the situation.

Well, Carl, let me first thing,

I always get a little hinky when people say

they're experts on two countries, let alone one.

I have friends in China who have lived their entire life.

They're extremely intelligent.

Well, Red and they'll tell me they don't know China.

So, and the same in the US.

So knowing both countries is not really that possible.

But I do look at some differences.

So let's break this down a little bit.

All right, first you have Donald Trump,

you know, pumping his chest, playing, you know,

Lord of the jungle, Donald of the jungle.

He's successfully in his mind,

run down to Venezuela, seized it.

He thinks that he's had a great victory.

But, you know, from the Chinese point of view,

yeah, there's some short-term concerns.

China gets between, or it hasn't passed

between two and four percent of its imported oil

coming from Venezuela.

They've put about over $60 billion into Venezuela.

And they still owed about 10 billion.

A lot of that was for infrastructure

and to, you know, keep their oil industry going.

I personally know one of the lawyers who was working on that deal

and without violating confidence as he said,

it was very interesting.

The people were extremely interesting on it.

So, you know, from China's perspective,

yes, there are short-term concerns about that,

but it's not irrevocable.

Maybe the price of heavy oil goes up a little bit,

but there are other places that are buying for it.

Remember, we're in the midst of a global slowdown,

oil prices were softening, there's room,

there's capacity there.

So there's not a global shortage.

So, but long-term, I think in the medium and long-term,

China has actually come out of this looking better,

and not by anything it's done.

Simply the US, by showing that it is a irresponsible power

that believes that the law of the jungle rules the land

has shown the world, that it is not only unreliable,

but that it is willing on any, you know,

any pretext to take whatever things it can get.

And, you know, nowhere is more apparent in that

than its, you know, his constant threats about Greenland.

Greenland is not a narco state.

Rain deer are not terrorists,

and, you know, 50, some, 1000 people there

have been living in peace and they haven't invaded anybody.

So, you know, this is just purely a power play.

He has switched, in theory,

he's trying to tell the world,

well, I don't need to be a global hedgeron.

I don't need to control the world.

I just need to control my hemisphere.

It's my right.

A problem with that is I don't think anybody believes

that he was able to secure the Western hemisphere

that he wouldn't go over the other,

go towards the other hemispheres.

And that's very important because if he, in fact,

was trying to signal that, not that it's acceptable,

but if he was trying to signal that,

he would be withdrawing troops in bases,

the 400 bases that surround, you know,

in Asia that basically surround to China.

He would be pulling troops back from Europe

and saying, look, I'm done with all that stuff.

You guys figured out, I'm just gonna, you know,

take what I want here.

You know, like I said, a lot of the jungles.

So, from China's perspective, long term,

they've invalidated.

They've expressed concerns about the desire of the US

in Washington, in particular.

I shouldn't say the US people, you know,

as people are not in sync with this.

But the folks in Washington really believe

that they have the right to contain other countries,

whether it's Russia, Iran, China, Venezuela,

anybody they don't like, anybody who doesn't fit

their ideological core.

Well, the ILEA core, as I remember it was free speech,

self-determination, a ballot box.

And what do we see happening here?

The exact opposite.

The hypocrisy does not bother the Donald Trump.

Happy to go forward with whatever, you know,

is necessary to get what he wants.

You know, you have to give me access.

I mean, he sounds exactly like the minor real estate

developer that he was.

And I'd say minor in the sense that he was never

one of the big New York real estate guys.

They all laughed at him.

They thought he was, you know, a clown,

somebody who was promoting himself endlessly,

but didn't have the wherewithal

to avoid six bankruptcies, turned his father's big fortune

into a medium-sized one, this type of thing.

But there's something that is very troublesome to me.

And that is, Trump is the master of distraction.

And, you know, generally, he throws out

what I call a dead cat or a bunch of white rabbits

or both simultaneously on a daily basis.

So, you know, this distracts the press

and they, you know, they look at the dead cat and say,

oh, my goodness.

And then they see the white rabbits

and they follow them around the room

and then they repeat that the next day.

It was really never a cause in the ongoing news cycle,

especially when it comes to Trump.

But if you start looking at the number of issues

that have come on, how quickly they follow on each other,

most of these issues, for instance,

500% tariffs on India.

That would have been at least two or three-day issue, right?

You know, distraction.

If you Venezuela would have been at least

a couple of weeks just by itself, Greenland,

would have been another three or four days.

I mean, by the fact that he's doing this simultaneously

speaks to a certain amount of desperation.

And I say that because, I mean, he's been successful

in avoiding most of the issues regarding the Epstein files,

which seems to be a huge concern.

You have a, you know, they said there are three or 400,000 pages

of documents and boxes of, you know, who knows what?

Recordings, et cetera.

And that was one thing.

Now they discover that there's more than two million

that haven't been really processed.

And yet they say, oh, this was, you know,

completely investigated and all this kind of nonsense.

So he's clearly bothered by the Epstein case.

He's been fighting every tooth and nail to keep it out.

You know, you heard that recording where he starts swearing

that he's not going to release them.

There's some choice things about Marjorie Taylor, Green.

And so, you know, you have things.

And then there's other reasons to distract.

His base is attacking each other.

It's very easy to put together a coalition of people

who feel that there's something wrong.

But it's very hard to control that coalition

once you get into the, you know, the seat of power

and you have to start administrating

because they have very, very, very different ideas.

You have white supremacists.

You have evangelicals.

You have people who just, you know,

simplistically believe that, you know,

he could single handedly bring down prices

and, you know, make the world better again.

And, you know, his initial speech, a golden age,

you know, his base, lapt it up.

And they've been, essence, become a cult.

When you talk to them, you say, how about this?

How about that?

You know, the Epstein files.

No, it's fake news.

Even things that he's actually said and done,

they'll say, no, he never said or did that.

And even if you show them, they'll just say, no, no, no.

That's not true.

I don't believe it.

And that's it.

They're not interested in the facts.

They just accept him emotionally

because he reflects in their minds their angst

and their troubles, you know, in their own lives.

They see their life degrading.

I don't blame them for looking for somebody

who can save them, some sort of strong man.

So often in these cases, when people are desperate,

people who show up to help aren't there to help.

They're there to take more.

And, you know, given that Donald Trump

has more than doubled his wealth and net wealth

and net wealth of his children in this first year,

you know, at some point that's gonna come home to roost.

Then you have, you know, apart from his base,

you have the over 60% of Americans

who are living paycheck to paycheck.

And guess what, they're about to get a real,

especially people at the lower end of that

are about to get a just horrible shock

when their health insurance premiums go up.

And, you know, Donald Trump doesn't wanna talk about that.

And so I think he's, you know, ramping up the speed,

all right, of the distractions that he's putting out there

to try to keep the narrative going.

The question is, every time you do that,

then the next thing you say has to be even more outrageous.

And, you know, seizing a Russian flag tanker,

not often as well, all right?

But near England and the Channel Coast,

that is serious, you know,

we don't know how far he's going to go.

Now, China and Russia are not going to fight America

in conventional weapons in South America.

They couldn't, for the same reason,

the U.S. would have a very difficult time fighting China.

And, you know, in the event that Taiwan decides

that they want to declare independence,

you know, the supply lines are too large.

I mean, you can see large fleets coming for days.

And they would be very vulnerable to attack

and things like this.

For the same reasons or not.

But there is the economic side of this.

You know, Europe has already attacked Russia.

They've seized, you know, Russian assets and things like that.

And they said, well, we're just basically going to keep them

or they tried.

You had one member said, no, no, we can't do that.

It's what in bridge too far.

But they've said, and the certainly have said,

we're going to take the interest from these monies

that we've seized or we're embargoing

and we're going to help you frame with that.

That's a violation of international commerce.

I mean, you cannot be secure if, you know,

governments are really nearly deciding

what they want to decide based on not what you did

but what your government did.

This idea that all Russians are part of the government

is kind of silly.

It's like all Americans are part of the government.

No, I don't think so.

So, you know, it's become a complex situation,

but you know, when you start looking at his distractions

and how they're escalating,

there's a real danger that we will accidentally

get into some sort of kinetic conflict.

And I say that because this reminds me of World War I.

No one wants a war, but each side was trying to draw the line

and say, don't cross this line and, you know,

do you do this? I'll do that.

Then it was based on all of these alliances

and things like this.

But today it's based on unilateral action

by the US as it struggles to maintain its hygienomy.

And extremely dangerous.

It's been very poorly received in South America

or Latin, I should say Latin America.

Although, you know, there have been a number of countries

who supported it.

I think that is not representative of the people.

There's way too much memory going on in South America

about assassinations.

There have been between 56 and 66

regime change operations acknowledged and recorded

since World War II in Latin America.

And this has touched almost every single country

and it is something where they don't forget.

They remember this.

You go to Chile, you know, you say a lendy, you know,

things like that.

Don't go to Chile and tell them how wonderful you think

Henry Kissinger was, you know,

they have a difference of opinion there.

You know, they have relatives that died

because of actions of the US that were pushed forward

by an asymptot Henry Kissinger who believed great power

was, you know, you kept your power

by doing asymmetrical things to anybody who challenged you.

So if somebody gave you a dirty look,

you'd go in and kill them.

And if they actually did something,

you'd kill their village.

This was the kind of angst.

I mean, Henry, you know, in China, they admire him,

but I always point out that he was responsible

for millions of deaths in Indonesia, Africa, South America,

Southeast Asia.

I mean, he was a butcher.

He didn't do the work themselves,

but he was certainly the mastermind behind all these ideas

and strategies and things like that.

And yet his legacy continues.

Now he's, you know, a bunch of haunted, you know,

passed away, strategist who people always like to quote,

but the dirty reality was that, you know,

he was right up there in terms of the people

who was responsible for more deaths,

probably in history than many others.

So this is the reality that we're looking at.

You have the short term or China has some minor concerns.

It could lead to more if Donald Trump starts to,

you know, implement this policy of going to,

through to any Latin American country

that is doing trade with China

and trying to sabotage that.

You'll know that today Donald Trump said

that no foreign advisors from China, Russia, Iran,

anywhere can be allowed in Venezuela.

He's trying to run the country by remote.

It's difficult to see how that is going to work.

He can certainly extort them,

continue to threaten them,

get them to give him free oil.

But at some point, he's going to reach a tipping point

where, you know, unless there is investment, all right?

And it's to the tune of about $100 billion

would be necessary to bring back the Venezuelan oil industry.

And I don't know that the big oil companies

are that interested in people who think,

whoa, of course, look, you know, a huge plentiful supply.

Well, you know, it used to be that Venezuela,

you know, could be counted on as a source for oil,

then it wasn't.

So the major oil companies moved into the oil sands

of Canada.

They invested half trillion dollars, right?

They bought up leases.

Oil sands is a dirty nasty business

and it requires very specialized equipment.

It's not like you move it somewhere else.

It's a very particular type of solution.

And even within different oil fields,

you have slightly different conditions

and you have to modify them.

So it's not like they can take their equipment

and run down to Venezuela and start processing oil.

So they would have to, in essence,

abandon those, abandon their leases

and then go down to Venezuela,

which is going to be a political risk.

We don't know what happens after Donald Trump leaves.

We certainly don't know what happens

even in the midterms.

And you could have a situation where internal strife,

you could get civil unrest there,

which would make it difficult to get the oil out.

You could have a new regime come in in a few years

and say, we're going to re-nationalize this.

You know, we were illegally invaded by another country

and we do not accept this.

Remember the people are still going to vote.

And if they're poor, the US is taking revenue source,

but not repairing the infrastructure.

That means there's less revenue to a country

that is already struggling.

And the United States has nothing.

Have you noticed any plan whatsoever

to do anything within Venezuela?

You've heard this, oh, for the benefit of both countries.

Well, come on.

He's not interested in Venezuela.

He doesn't have a plan to help them.

He doesn't have a plan.

After 18 years of criticizing American health care,

he doesn't have a plan now.

How do we expect him to have a plan for a country

that he doesn't even know anything about?

He doesn't care about.

I mean, they had, they were unable to articulate anything

that happened the day after.

What happens the day after you seize these people?

You know, how are you going to do this country?

And it's complete mess.

You can see that.

That goes back to my first point,

or my second point, that he is doing a lot of things

just to divert attention from other problems,

especially as domestic ones.

So, you know, and then, let me just explain one thing

and I'll stop talking.

Why does America, which produces more oil than it needs?

Why is it interested in this oil from Venezuela?

Does everyone, you know, think about that?

We export more than we import.

The reason is that we export,

the majority of our oil is what they call sweet crude.

It's light.

It doesn't need a lot of processing.

And it has a high value.

You've been turned it into gasoline

and jet fuel and all of these wonderful things.

Now, heavy crude, right?

It's called sour.

It has a lot of sulfur in it.

That sulfur has to be taken out.

And then it has to be processed

within a completely different way.

Now, in the United States,

60% of our processing is for heavy oil.

So, what happens if you have this problem

where the US is geared for heavy oil,

but it doesn't really have a great supply.

Canada is more expensive.

Yes, but it's also more stable.

Venezuela sounds great,

but in essence, you're asking the major oil companies

to take a haircut on their own investments

and go into an area that is very, very politically risky.

So, the situation of the imbalance

and the reason we're doing this

so that we can supply heavy oil to these refineries,

which Trump came out and said,

oh, these guys need the oil

because they have a shortage of heavy crude.

Well, that sounds great,

but it's not a reliable solution.

It hasn't been thought through like many of Trump's ideas.

He doesn't seem to grasp the reality of the industry.

And whether he's helping or actually hurting it,

the problem is that somebody will start going in

and developing Venezuela's oil at some point.

And when that happens, yes,

you're going to have a real problem

with the major US oil companies

who have invested in tar sands in Canada

because they're going to be at a price disadvantage.

There's also this idea that somehow,

by lowering the price,

you're going to help everything that all of a sudden,

America will be doing well.

Well, if you lower the price of oil,

America is an exporter of oil.

So you're going to lose at the same time as you're,

quote, winning, but you're losing more

because the amount you're losing on your sales,

which are greater than your imports.

It's not a victory at all, right?

There's offsets and this is the complexity

that Donald Trump and his administration

don't seem to grasp there uniquely unqualified.

They lack the experience, temperament, you name it.

They don't have it.

It's just simply the cast of the apprentice

to Washington edition,

all expendable people who, you know,

they look great, they're completely idiot.

I mean, come on.

I mean, you have a woman who was used

to shuffle papers for insurance companies

out there trying to prosecute a criminal case,

a sophisticated criminal case.

She doesn't even know where to stand

or who to talk to or what standards are.

It's criminal incompetence to have people like that,

but these are the people he surrounds them

south with, why?

Because they are expendable.

He can call them in the office and say, you're fired.

And his base will go nuts.

Oh, he's really showing them.

This is just like the apprentice, okay?

But reality isn't a show

and Donald Trump is falling waste or the mark.

The question is, when does it catch up with them

or when does he do something so risky

that we start to get retaliation and then escalation?

I've been completely agree with you

about Trump is doing this as a distraction.

I mean, he's great for television.

Trump knows how to be the reality TV show host

that he really is.

But I do have a question about why then he's going to,

I mean, there's all these other distractions

that he could focus on.

As you said, just focus on Venezuela

or focus on squeezing terrifying India.

Why is he then going after Greenland?

I mean, that doesn't make sense.

If you want to be the hedgehog,

you want to get more people on your side,

build up your alliance to shore up your position.

But Trump looks like he's single-minded to destroy NATO,

to destroy the one institution that lock in the Europeans

as the American vessels.

And he is going after a NATO country, Denmark,

the owner of Greenland.

And when the US are read in all this reason

they throw out for why USA to acquire Greenland

because Greenland is set on a very strategic shipping lane

because you sit on the Iceland UK Greenland gap.

You can monitor the Arctic when the ice melt.

We can deter the Russians and the Chinese shipping

in the Arctic from the bases in Greenland.

But all that excuse is bogus because currently,

US already have access to Greenland

per agreement with Denmark, per agreement with NATO.

They can do all that right now.

So why is it that he was debt set

on acquiring Greenland while antagonizing a NATO ally

and potentially turning Europe against him?

I mean, the Europeans leaders are already,

they are all despising, but they still have to scrape and bow

because American power.

But now they're really, I mean,

Greenland might just be a bridge too far

taking away a sovereign territory of a NATO country.

What do you think is the reason he's doing that?

Well, Carl, first off, he doesn't care about Europe.

He sees them as weaklings.

He said so on many occasions.

So the idea that he takes them seriously is there.

I mean, you can see a very clear pattern.

Any country that stands up to him, all right?

Oh, he's like, oh, can't we be friends?

We can work this out, you know, China, Russia,

the mayor of New York.

You know, people always ask me, he said,

well, why is he so nice to a guy who call him a fascist?

This is very simple.

Donald, the way Donald Trump thinks, you know,

he's vindictive if you haven't noticed.

And, you know, if he was mayor of New York

and he didn't like the president and the president

had a whole bunch of real estate inside New York,

Donald Trump is very well aware of what he would do,

which would be to send an army of inspectors

on a daily basis to every single one of those properties

to find some excuse to shut them down, to find them, et cetera.

It's the only reason that Donald Trump did it, self-interest.

And that's the only reason he does anything else.

In terms of Greenland, he really sees himself

carved on the rocks of Rushmore.

He even has a couple of mockups of him on there.

So he's looking for this big thing.

Okay, so I grab South America and I grab Greenland,

I control the West and atmosphere

and I will be in the history books

as the greatest president or more important to him,

a better president than Obama.

I mean, there was a real turning point

when Obama made fun of him at the gridiron dinner,

the annual dinner where they get together

and they make jokes about each other.

Donald Trump was looking, you know, oh my gosh,

he was so embarrassed at that.

And it was widely reported that that was the moment.

He said, I'm gonna be president.

I don't care what it takes, I'll do whatever it is.

I'm gonna make this bastard pay.

And that's quite clearly what he's done since that point.

So yeah, from his point of view,

he wants to make himself, you know, an FDR or whatever

and these are the ways to get it.

He doesn't care about Europe, as he said, their weaklings.

He's gonna grab what he can.

And, you know, with Venezuela, he's feeling very,

you know, he's on a high.

I did it.

No one thought any, I would do this.

I'm showing that I'm the madman of diplomacy.

No one can guess what I'm gonna do next.

And maybe I can extend that.

I mean, in his biography, he has said,

he said, I don't think about yesterday.

I don't think about tomorrow.

What I think about is how to maximize today.

So that's exactly how he goes about running the presidency.

It's a day by day thing.

So he said, throw out dead cats and white rabbits

keep the press out there.

And then, you know, cause chaos and commotion

and see what opportunities shake out.

This is what he does, all right?

He threatens, controls, does whatever.

And then he watches to see how you're reacting.

If he senses any weakness, he presses.

If he senses any strength and ability to push back,

he then, you know, looks for something else.

It's just like with China.

I mean, he thought his tariffs were gonna reduce China

to, you know, a puddle of jelly.

Well, instead they said, look, you know,

the world's interconnected and you're not in position

to do all this kind of isolationist stuff you wanted to.

And then they had the meeting in Busan

and Trump realized, okay, this isn't going the way I expected.

China has things like wearer, strategic metals, chemicals,

so many things, intermediate goods

that we have to have.

So he kind of says, okay, you know, we're friends,

we can work this out.

Meanwhile, he goes back home.

Well, he doesn't, before he goes back home,

before he even goes to the meeting in Busan,

he gives a green light to the Japanese ambassador

to violate the ambiguity.

The ambiguity was always about what the US would do

in terms of Taiwan.

Because although they agreed to, there's only one China

and they signed international treaties

that domestically they pass a law

called the Taiwan Relations Act,

which just says, well, yeah, we agreed to that,

but you know, this is a domestic law

and you know, this governs what we can do.

And you know, China don't pay any attention to this,

but you know, we're going to keep complete supplying them

so they can repair their military structure.

That was the understanding.

Now it's become quite a different game.

And part, so he encourages her to violate the ambiguity.

Of course, it sets off a storm.

It's now costing Japan a lot.

China's announced that they're not going to allow dual use

or military use of strategic metals

and also rare earths, which which Japan

in a very difficult position.

If they extend that to the automobile industry,

basically it stops.

So China has a lot of controls on it.

China is a huge market for Japan.

They have a lot of facilities here

to lose that for a country that depends so heavily

on exports would be devastating.

So China has its own pressures.

So then he goes back to the US and what's the game plan?

Okay, we can't attack China directly.

So what we're going to do is to attack them indirectly.

We're going to go to every country and say,

you have to stop trading with China.

And that's exactly what they're doing today.

And we're going to make it stick by going down

and grabbing a country like Venezuela,

which has close relationships with China

where China has invested,

to send them a message that you can't come to our backyard.

And if you do, it's going to cost you.

So, but it's all indirect.

All right, he hasn't come.

So expect a direct response, though.

Prop, he's saying, which obviously is not going to allow

strategic metals and rare earths to be used in the weapons

that the United States wants to build,

not only to sell to other countries

that are antagonistic towards China,

but also allowing the US to supply their stockpile

of these weapons.

And without these zero,

they cannot produce.

All right, they can try to go through

and salvage whatever they can,

use what they think, but it's going to run out.

Things like heavy magnets that are used

in very delicate operations,

like gyroscopes and things like that, rare earth magnets,

China has 98% of them of market in terms of production,

not in terms of the minerals.

Minerals are all over the place.

That is not the issue.

The issue is that China has a production

and it would take US at least five years

to and a lot of money to try to replicate

what China is doing now.

Meanwhile, China will continue to go forward.

It would take 10 to 15 years for the US

to try to come up with domestic solutions

for their automobiles and things like that.

Well, whether it's five years or 15,

the fact is there would be no production during that time

or very, very limited production.

And this would be a real threat to the US arms industry.

How do you sell things you can't make?

I always laughed at the, when Donald Trump says,

we're not going to sell you the avionics

that you need for your airplanes.

Well, let's think about this.

I'm not going to sell you the stuff we can't make.

Okay, I think that's fairly obvious.

But I don't think he, it's once again,

he makes an absurd statement like this,

not really working it through.

And that is the real danger that he takes a huge risk,

hasn't thought it through.

There's some sort of retaliation and then escalation

and then we don't know who that goes,

but it's not a good place.

You mentioned something interesting.

You're saying that the Japanese prime ministers,

Sanaitaka, each is provocative statement on Taiwan,

which is at US, that the Japan would send its military

to Taiwan in case of a conflict.

You are saying that is because she received

the US prodding to do so,

not maybe not out of her own relation.

So you think US is behind that,

behind the escalation of tensions between China and Japan?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, you look at the timing of his visit to there.

He knew he was going to Busan

and that it was not going to go well.

He had made stops, a Vietnam,

well, a Vietnam had come to the US,

but he made stops in Malaysia.

No, Vietnam in Malaysia, he made stops

and it was Australia that had he talked to before.

These are the main areas where they do have

some very small amount of processing of rare earths.

And he was trying to collect these little bits and pieces

so he could show up in Busan and say,

hey, listen, if you don't give us what we want,

we'll start making it ourselves.

And China said, okay, I'll take you what, five, 15 years?

Okay, good luck, good luck with that.

So he knew he was going into a bad situation.

So he was looking for leverage.

Donald Trump is always looking for leverage.

And he'll tell you that.

I got to get leverage on this guy.

I have to get better cards.

He sees it all as a game.

So the Japanese are very careful.

They're not going to violate an ambiguity class.

Now, she wants to, she wants to quote normalize Japan

and the key to normalizing Japan is getting out,

having their own nuclear umbrella in essence.

And she wants to move in that direction.

But I guarantee you, in the moment she gets

her own nuclear devices, the first thing they'll do

is ask the US to leave.

They do not like being an occupied nation.

Japan is extremely xenophobic.

A lot of her popularity right now is because she's

closing the door on tourism.

A lot of the Japanese people are reacting very positively

to this, not the ones who run the businesses,

but the people at large saying we don't like Gaijin.

We don't like foreigners here.

They're impure.

They're dirty.

They're not Japanese.

So they're not somebody we can deal with.

So yeah, she wanted to say something like this.

But the idea that she, this question, wasn't planted.

I mean, I used to run it.

I was in politics myself.

When I wanted something like that,

I would just tell things, oh, this is a good question.

You should think about asking that.

Well, to you is, they ask it, and then you respond.

So this was a calibrate.

She wanted to stand up, just kind of an iron

British lady like Margaret Thatcher, who she admires.

And she wanted to say the world, look, you can't toy with Japan.

We have our own agency.

And it doves tails with her desire

to make Japan into a quote, normalized entity.

But it brings back very bad memories for Asia as a whole.

Remember, this is the 80th anniversary of the end

of the anti-Japanese imperialist war.

I mean, fascism supposedly was defeated back then.

And the hope was it wouldn't come back.

And now you're starting to see it clearly coming forward

in Japan, also in the United States.

I mean, the only way you can describe what Donald Trump is doing

is fascism.

I mean, this is exactly what Germany was doing.

They're saying for our protection,

we need to take over this area.

For their protection, we need to take over this area.

That was what it was all about.

And what happened, Europe appeased.

It led to war.

That's where history doesn't repeat, but it was rhyme.

I think I would dispute about the fascist description,

because I know for a fact, the train

do not run on time in the United States.

You know, they...

So you completely destroy my entire argument.

Well, they don't run in Germany on time anymore, either.

But yeah, I guess I'll have to rethink that whole thing.

Our trains don't run very fast in their mind on time.

Yeah.

Go ahead, go ahead.

No, no, I mean, I've kind of exhausted that.

I mean, we know where the U.S. is and its strategy wants

to take over all these areas, show it's strong.

Trump thinks that this is the key to wooing the electorate back.

But the problem is that if you can't eat,

you don't really care about Venezuela or Greenland.

I mean, U.S. people, you ask them where Greenland is.

Point to a map without things.

They'll be pointed to central Europe or something like this,

or Iceland or whatever.

They have no clue about geography.

So it would be very, very, very difficult for them

to get excited about 50,000 people in a massive ice sheet.

They don't know what's shipping to them

if they can't pay their bills.

And this is really the ticking time clock

that Trump is running against.

People think about this in international terms,

but in America, we both know all politics is local.

And he has a reckoning coming up with this mid-year election.

And the problem is, if he follows true to form,

he's either before or after the election declare it invalid.

And try to say, no, we're going to keep the same slate of people.

The problem is about, you know, droves of Republicans

are, in fact, resigning.

So how do you replace them?

Maybe he just says, as long as there's more Republicans

and Democrats, we'll freeze it.

I'm sure right now they are trying to figure out

if these guys do resign.

How do we keep the House?

I'm sure he's, you know, Stephen Miller, who is, wow,

I mean, he's something else.

Did you see his statement?

He says, we can do anything.

Because we're America.

This sounded something like out of a movie,

how I came to love the bomb, Dr. Strangelove.

I mean, he's that guy.

He's the one sitting there going, hmm, you know,

I keep my asses to myself.

His wife is the one who tweeted out

with a map of Greenland painting the American color

and says, your next Greenland is next.

Soon, coming soon, I can't.

I mean, you know, you really have a bunch of characters

in there, but as I said, I mean, you know,

what happens if Trump becomes somewhat in feeble?

Are there questions about his judgment now?

Obviously, the filter, this minimal amount of filtering

he had before is completely gone.

He just says whatever comes to mind.

But if he comes incapacitated and you have the same crew there,

people should be thinking very carefully what that would mean.

In essence, they could be independent actors.

Rubio would get his long wish to go into Cuba

and take over the government and then declare

that all the old families who lost their lands,

you know, somebody years ago are now back in control

and they should get interested, you know,

basically create a surf, surfdom society.

You know, he might be a hero to the few people

and Florida left to remember the Cuban revolution,

but it certainly isn't going to solve anything

and then you have Miller pushing his right wing

white is right agenda.

I mean, he would be going off in a different direction

and there would be no controls with it.

Right now, they have to bow and scrape before Donald Trump.

They have to watch, make sure they don't get too much limelight

and that they always put him front and center

and that, you know, he's going to react to whatever they say.

He's malleable to a point,

but he's always looking at the polls.

He's looking at the news and he's, you know,

with an eye towards his, you know,

glorification of making himself into the great man

that he isn't but wants to be.

Well, I mean, we, I think we all agreed.

The current path that Trump has said US is not ultimately

sustainable, but Trump is still going to be in the office

for another three years.

You know, how do you see this all going to end?

You know, I mean, this is, this is asking you,

I'm asking you to look into your crystal ball for a little bit,

but like how he's doing a heck of a job right now

to distract people from Epstein file,

even though there's still people on social media

asking him to show us the files.

So, you know, he can, he can bring pivot from one crisis

to the next, but do you think he's ever going to run out

of this kind of crisis that he can artificially create?

To, to, to keep his, you know, to, to, to, to keep himself

above the, the, you know, the, the, the questioning and, and, and, and,

yeah, that's what I was referring to earlier.

I mean, you, you have to do more and more outrageous things.

And when you do those, there's a risk.

As I said, that you cross lines, for instance,

seizing a Russian oil tanker.

Well, Russia's going to respond.

My, my guess is that they'll say you took one of ours

or going to take one of yours.

And if you want yours back, you give us ours back.

That's, you know, Putin is not a pushover.

And he's certainly not going to be bowed or, or cow, cowtow

to Donald Trump, who he sees as a fool,

a kind of floppy clown that he's been able to push around

because he's the stronger man.

He's the man that Donald Trump aspires to, ironically.

So, yeah, there's going to be retaliation.

And then the question is, does it escalate?

Or does Trump do what he's famous for a taco?

Right now, he's riding high on his success in Venezuela.

The question is, does his advisors say, no, you can push,

you can push these guys further.

Don't worry about it.

We got you covered.

They're afraid of us.

I don't think Putin is afraid of the United States.

He's wary of them, but he's not afraid of them.

He's not afraid to act otherwise.

He wouldn't have gone into Ukraine.

And, you know, quite frankly, we baited him into it in 2014

by sponsoring a push that took out a guy,

somebody who was favorable to him

and put in somebody who was favorable to us.

That's against the rule.

If Russia did that, remember the Cuban missile crisis,

we said, okay, we don't like these guys.

And they're with Russia.

So we're going to threaten nuclear war.

Yes, putting missiles there, real problematic,

but we had put missiles in Turkey.

And the Russians regarded the missiles in Turkey

the way we regarded the missiles in Cuba.

So there was, you know, the people don't talk about it,

but the resolution of that is that we took out the missiles

in Turkey and they agreed not to try to put missiles in Cuba.

So, you know, this would be international diplomacy,

but the question is, is Donald Trump capable of that?

He seems to be, you know, jumping around

and because he has this pressure

to distract the American public,

you don't know exactly what he's going to do.

But let's look into the crystal ball.

We have different options here.

One, Trump makes it to his three years.

And actually, that's the best scenario

because if Donald Trump goes for any reason,

he's incapacitated, he's removed under Article 25,

whatever you have Darth Vance.

And I call him Darth Vance

because he believes in the dark enlightenment.

I mean, the power of the dark force.

Literally, I mean, this is the religion that he's,

he and his sponsor, you know, the guy who runs,

and I was not paradigm,

what's what's the name of that company?

Palantir?

Palantir, yeah.

Peter Thiel, who was running around the United States

telling people the devil is here.

Well, when I look at Peter Thiel,

I think what the devil would look like, I think that's it.

So maybe he's just advertising his own presence

or something like that.

But he and a bunch of these tech gurus

and incredibly rich, they have over trillions of dollars

and combined in that worth.

And they have control of very sensitive areas,

especially in terms of information and technology.

Our friend Elon Musk is a fellow traveler with them.

He believes that the world should be run by technocrats

that they do not believe in democracy.

They rail against it, right?

They actually, in their beliefs,

they say democracy doesn't work.

It's time to end it and to have a lord of the techno lords

to guide the world and put chips in our brains

and make us better.

It's a dystopian fantasy reality.

And it's not that different, unfortunately,

from the late 1800s when America went through this huge boom

and the oil barons, the steel barons,

the railway barons, and they thought exactly the same thing.

They thought, we're so successful,

you know, we're so credible we should be running the world.

But invariably, what happens with these characters

is that they all agree that they should running the world

except they don't agree on which one of them

should be first among equals.

And they ended up trying to battle each other,

literally trying to bankrupt each other,

petty swabbling that kept them at bay

until there was a real change with the new deal

and things like this.

So it's not repeating, but it certainly is rhyming

with history.

These people haven't inflated sense of their own abilities.

They don't realize that it was just luck

that there were more capable people than them,

but the times weren't right.

These people believe that they're divine

or divinely inspired or their gods on earth

or whatever.

So he's a real danger.

So you want actually want Trump to stay in for three years.

The problem with Trump is that every day of Trump

is seven days for the rest of us.

We literally live in dog years.

And it's really troubling to think

that the next three years will be like 21 years

in terms of everyday mass distraction,

tacos, you name it.

Everything is coming at you.

If you want to live forever,

every moment with Trump is an eternity.

So yeah, just be thankful you're living

in during this period.

I just think, now what are the things?

Well, obviously there could be escalation,

some sort of war.

I don't think that I'm hoping that it doesn't go new there,

but you just don't know what people are telling them.

The military industrial complex always believes

that they have the solution.

And it's in Dr. Strange Love as they said,

as long as there's one American in no Russians,

we want this type of attitude is still there.

I mean, it's scary, it's supposed to be a satire,

but these people actually believe it.

So you're gonna have escalation there,

but you also, when I think it's gonna happen

is within the United States,

there's gonna be a revolt towards Donald Trump

because his base is fractured.

He's not giving them what they want.

He's doing the exact opposite of what he advertised

he would do.

Now, there's still amongst his base,

the cult-like group who will excuse anything he does.

If they showed him a sexual video with a 14 year old,

it say it was fake.

That was created by the Democrats

and it's a witch hunt and all this kind of stuff.

But there are enough people in there.

And we're already seeing that the other day,

you had the writers, the 1600 people who were pardoned

for their criminal activity on January 6th.

Well, some of them showed up in Washington

or demanding hundreds of millions of dollars

in compensation for their hooliganism

because they were pardoned.

Therefore, they were right.

If they're right, they need to be compensated

for all the bad things that happened to them.

Now, about 2% of these wonderful people

have already been involved in crimes since then.

Everything from pedophilia to fraud, attempted murder.

Just wonderful things.

The kind of things you would expect

from a bunch of hooligans who are attracted to an opportunity

to express their rage and frustration in that society

because it didn't give them what they wanted.

So this is a real danger in the US.

You're gonna get further polarization.

A problem is the Democrats have nothing to offer

at this point.

They're actually infighting themselves.

They don't like the mayor of New York

because he doesn't take off the boxes that they want.

I mean, you start looking at American politics.

What does it become?

It's party above individual.

And surprise, surprise, you don't get leaders

when you have a situation where you say,

whether you agree or not,

if you don't take this box, we're not gonna support you.

If you don't say, oh, I support Israel.

Okay, you can't be part of our group.

If you don't say, you know, you're for this

or against that, you can't be part of our group.

We'll take away all of our subscated machinery

and election, Iran elections have become

much more money driven and technologically driven

and you need people to do door knocks and, you know,

you need the analysis to determine, you know,

how you can manipulate people into voting for you.

What are the major issues?

How do you craft answers?

All of these things, very, very sophisticated.

So if you don't have access to that

or the money to buy it, you're at a disadvantage

and that's why we don't have third parties and things like that.

So the Democrats are offering very, very little at this point.

Maybe somebody comes for it, it would be wonderful if they did,

but I'm not counting on it.

Because of the structure of the party

is not aimed at creating leaders.

It's aimed at creating people who go along

with the special interests that the party is supporting.

And you know, you've seen that clearly.

I mean, the Democrats used to be the blue collar party

and now you have more blue collar workers

going directly for Trump because they feel alienated

and you know, left aside by, you know,

what they see as a bunch of liberals

who don't really care about their issues.

So, you know, but it does come to the head

for the rest of the world.

Independents do not like what Trump is doing.

They don't see it as valuable.

It doesn't answer their issues, which are our bread

and butter issues.

And of course, Democrats are going to knee jerk

anything anti-Trump is good.

So there's going to be a change.

The question is how he handles it

and whether that results in violence

or there's some recourse, the Supreme Court,

which puts it sides, it's a desire to keep Trump in power

and says, look, there's limits even to what we will allow you to do.

If that happens and the question is, does Donald Trump comply?

You know, he didn't comply with the orderly process.

The last time he lost, he tried to overturn it,

organized a riot to try to pressure Mike Pence

and to not certifying something when he says,

look, I'm just a figurehead.

I don't make the decision.

I have to ever, I can't even have a reason.

I just get the paper and I read it and that's it.

I'm not a judge, jury, and executioner here.

And Pence recently gave, you know, he alluded

to his message before just recently on the anniversary

of that talking about how important it was for him

to fulfill his constitutional duty.

So you have a lot of turmoil, a lot of chaos.

The river is not flowing in one direction.

No one knows where it's going.

It seems to be a flood in other areas

and other areas have no water on them

and no one knows exactly where the currents are going.

This indecision is affecting business.

Businesses work on the notion that predictability.

I'm going to invest money and I'm, you know,

there's good reason to believe that that money

will return to me and plus profits.

But if I don't know what the situation is,

there's no way in the earth that I'm going

to start investing money unless, you know, I say,

well, you know, I can do something in this three years

while Donald Trump is president

and make all my money back and make a profit, right?

Yeah, then I'll do it.

But if it's going to go beyond that, we know

when change comes, it's probably going to be fairly dramatic.

Will it be good change?

I don't know.

That's a tall order.

We thought that Biden would change things in actuality.

He just carried on a lot of many of Trump's positions

and it was just kind of Trump light.

I'm a nicer Trump.

I still believe in all that stuff, but I, you know,

I have a rationale for it.

But I'm not going to change anything and, you know,

just be nice to you as I'm taking your stuff.

OK, I'll cite principal because I, you know, I don't like you

and I don't understand you and you're not American

so you can't be, you know, you can't be like me

and if you're not like me, you can't be good.

So, you know, there's a whole set of rationales

that go into it.

But, you know, one of the, at the heart of this,

I hate to point to all the problems

without pointing towards solutions.

All right, one solution that is absolutely necessary

is that America and elites need to reflect

is what we're doing working for us.

And if it's not, let's look at the assumptions that we've made

and see which ones are still valid.

You know, we live in a dynamic world.

If you're not looking at your assumptions, trying to learn,

you're really not limiting a very full life

you're kind of on automatic.

This is absolutely necessary if the US is going to come

to this mindset that, okay, we're not going to be a hedgeman

but we can still be a very great power.

And the question is, how do we make ourselves greater

by cooperating with countries instead of trying to beat them

into submission or take them over in the cost of trying

to take over a country of very, very steep.

The second point is that, you know, the US has to look

at how the rest of the world is growing

and decide whether or not it wants to be part of it.

And I think the solution is for other countries,

especially the Global South, Russia, Central Asia, China

to come together and say, even with Europe,

and say, we're not going to form an organization.

We have an organization called UN.

But it's time that we all get together,

C-Lac, you know, South American groups,

the African groups, things like that.

Go to Donald Trump and say, listen,

you can do whatever you want to your own people

in terms of how much you want to tear off them.

If you want to tax them, that's between you and your voters.

We don't, we're not going to comment on that, that's up to you.

But you cannot try to pit us against each other

in some cynical, colonial divide and conquer game.

Because that's what is happening here.

And it's time the world just says flatly,

we don't agree on anything except that you're being a bully.

And if this happens, I don't Trump has no choice but to taco.

And the reason I say that is the US can battle

or to a standstill, like with Russia and China,

or it can actually dominate smaller countries,

but it cannot fight everybody.

We still have a huge surplus that is due to the fact

that we sell services.

If these countries got together and said, look,

your services are no longer needed.

We're going to put 500% tariffs on them.

And basically, we're going to end all your consulting

and your big four accounting firms and things like that

and we're going to push them out.

We have alternatives to that we can use

and we can certainly grow our own expertise

and we can use European ones, but you're finished there.

That would take a huge chunk out of China.

Then everything that's going to America,

we're going to put tariffs on.

So we're going to collect the tariffs on this side.

I'm going to let them be on your side.

So before they can come to you,

you order them, we're going to take money out of it

and you're going to have to pay more.

Given the fragile state of America,

Donald Trump would have no choice but to say,

oh, don't take this so seriously,

we can work this out, come on, all this stuff.

You would still try his little games and everything like that,

but he would be pushed into a situation

where he'd have to look in different areas

for distractions to keep the American public

from revolting against him.

And that's kind of where I see things.

I think that there is hope,

but its collective action is the only hope.

You can't respond militarily

so you have to respond economically.

And economically is really where America lives.

It's why they object to China

because China's economics were improving so much.

They're afraid that the economics leads in their mind

because it's funny, a thief always believes

that everyone else is a thief or an idiot, all right?

So I'm just doing to them what they would do to me.

I'm just preempting them.

So there's nothing wrong here, right?

And idiots who cares, I'm not an idiot,

they have their idiots, they deserve to,

I think deserve to be victims.

They're there, they're the sheep for people like me,

the wolf.

So there's always a justification.

So in that, that's kind of where America is

and it has to move away from that.

So let's hope that happens.

Collective action economically is the only rational choice

for countries to put an end to this kind of moratoring,

a moratting adventurousism

that Donald Trump is promoting.

Wow, thank you, thank you, thank you for that.

I mean, I'm glad I had you on my show to talk to you.

Don't say that, yeah, wait till the reaction comes in

and people go and guard the CIA shows up in your house

and says, we need to talk to you.

Don't talk to that guy.

Well, that will be another show.

That will be the next show.

That's when you're doing the Maduro thing

in orange jumpsuit with the handcuffs on,

saying you're an enemy of the people.

You're a fellow fellow traveler.

Well, that would be, that would be good for TV.

That would be good TV.

I would do it.

I would do it.

I really don't want to see you in that situation, Carl.

I mean, it might be great television,

but I guess you prison is no joke.

I was a prosecutor.

I had to visit these jails.

Oh, my God.

As a defense attorney, they're not good places.

The smell you can cut with a knife.

The people are surprisingly because they're criminals.

They're not nice either.

Well, thank you.

Thank you, I know for making your time to speak to us.

I think it's really a pleasure.

If people want to follow your work, where would they go?

I under Asia narratives, sub-stack.

I put out some things.

Otherwise, I do 14 shows a week on average.

So if you just type my name in,

you'll get different things.

I'm, I don't know, I think 12 different stations

in the Middle East.

A lot of it will be unintelligible because they don't broadcast

my voice, just the translation.

Indian TV on probably about eight or nine different ones.

And then, you know, Bloomberg, BBC, Chinese TV, obviously.

But that's only about, I don't know, 40% of what I do,

60% is global.

Everything from South Africa, power FM,

which apparently is a widely known and broadcast,

not only South Africa, but throughout Africa.

So I can't complain.

I mean, somebody said, I didn't, I did a search on you,

you know, I'm AI searching.

I didn't believe it.

So I, you know, a consultant, a free other one.

I said, you're the most prolific guy out there.

How do you do it?

Well, I actually, I enjoy it.

You know, to be in many ways, I can give answers

or what I think are answers, but they're my opinion.

Hopefully they stir people to thinking.

But for me, it's the questions that matter.

When you ask me questions, it tells me about how you're thinking.

And this is a way of gathering information.

So I'm always very cognizant.

I will do the same issue on maybe seven or eight different

medias spanning the world.

So hearing what they have to say,

what they're interested in, which is apparent through the questions,

is to me, the best way of gathering understanding.

I am not in those countries, but if I hear what they are interested in,

I start to have a better understanding where they are.

I'm on three thing tanks.

Yeah, I don't write books all this kind of nonsense.

I wouldn't say that I'm a paramount of intellectualism,

but I do enjoy discussions.

I enjoy talking to you and hearing, you know,

what you're thinking about and things like this.

And hopefully it makes a bit of a difference.

You have a following that is interested in these affairs.

And, you know, I always like to read comments afterwards

and try to learn from them.

I believe that, you know, if you think you know everything,

you're basically intellectually dead.

If you understand that there's so much more to learn,

life is more interesting, it is.

And, you know, it gives you hope that maybe things can change.

If you know everything, nothing's going to change.

It's why I came to China.

I love China because they said, oh,

if I came here in 2000, I want to learn.

I want to learn not, you know, I'm so glad you're here.

We want to learn from you.

I said, well, I don't think you can learn much from me.

But the attitude convinced me that if there was going to be a renaissance

in my lifetime, it would be in China.

And 21 years later, as of January 7th,

I have not been disappointed.

There's change.

China has lots and lots of problems.

But the difference is, I notice is,

they eventually recognized, this is a problem.

Then they tried to solve it.

In the United States, I lived in a city that was at the time

the most segregated city in the United States.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

It's not a bad place to live, but it was extremely stratified

and had been that way for a long.

Now it's only the third, most, you know,

stratified city, you know, but my point was,

I would sit with people in the morning

who ran the Fortune 500 companies.

We belong to the same athletic club and ex-Governors,

you know, people who really had a tremendous amount of power.

And I criticize, I might say, hey, listen, you guys,

you know everything, you have all the power

and nothing has changed.

And that was 21 years ago.

And unfortunately, I'd have to say that,

although there's been some incremental changes,

very small in terms of the metrics,

in terms of education, safety,

the things where people live, a cost of living,

all of these things, social development,

it just hasn't happened.

I can't say I had a bad experience.

I ran my own district there, which is definitely still,

when I took it over, it was not doing very well.

Now it's the leading, one of the leading districts,

not only in Milwaukee, but in the United States.

As a public market, we build, we go connected parks,

we build river walks, parking structures.

And it's pretty much self-contained and self-operating.

And it was good.

So I saw hope there.

And I saw the opportunity to change.

But 21 years later, all I see is that very little

has actually changed.

That the district continues to do well

based on the impetus of all the people,

because it wasn't just me, there are others involved.

Many involved.

It was always a team project.

But I haven't seen it spread.

I was hoping that this would be bellweather

and that this would help the city.

Think of itself as something that could change.

Because this area was really not in good shape

when I took it over.

I mean, it was worth $60 million in total value.

And then 10 years later, it was 720 million.

Now I'm sure it's well over 1.5 billion.

But that has not been mirrored in the rest of the city.

Now this area had specific advantages and things like that.

But I do think that we have to put away

this idea of how we think about others,

because it's a trap.

Once I'm a cynic or I'm a criminal or I lock myself

into a way of thinking where I think everyone else

is the same.

And then it's very, very difficult to create any real change.

You have to question that.

And that's when I'm alluding to with America's elite.

They have to see a crack in the wall and say,

maybe there's something outside my core beliefs

that I should be paying attention to.

Perhaps I should have empathy for other people,

not distinct.

I can tell you absolutely Carl, you have empathy.

That's why I like you and I do your show.

But there's so many people who don't have empathy.

And you look at Donald Trump,

there's those two images of him.

One is a guy who knows who's up on stage.

He's going off the stage, he cracks his head open.

Donald Trump is rearing back.

Everyone else is rushing down the guy.

He's like standing, he's afraid.

He's going to get blood on his things.

And then when I was recently, he's speaking

in some guy behind him as, I don't know,

I have an aneurysm or a heart attack.

And he's like looking at it as if he's interrupting his,

how dare you interrupt by his speech?

What are you doing?

Just stop flopping around like that.

You're distracting people from me.

This should be about me.

Anyway, he doesn't have empathy, a real empathy.

I'll tell you, I've never met a good person who

doesn't have empathy.

And I've never met a bad person who does have empathy.

So it's something to think about once you can get beyond

your own assumptions and start looking at how other people

live and try to understand their point of view,

I think there is hope.

But if you're locked into this idea that I'm right, you're wrong.

I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't know what a basis, but I just feel that I'm right.

I might be ignorant, but that's common sense.

I know I'm right.

Once you get locked into that, then you're

going to have the problems.

And this is not just Trump supporters.

You have the same thing on the far left.

They're always convinced that they're absolutely right.

And they're willing to do whatever it takes.

I have to kill you to save you.

So be it.

The old idea that a lot of religious people

have had during the inquisition, well, they're

heathens.

So if we burn them, God can sort them out.

And it's all based on, I am absolutely right.

I cannot be wrong.

And that, I think, is the real enemy here.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, I know, I have learned a lot.

And every time I really enjoy our conversation, thank you again

for making the time to talk to us.

And I look forward to have you back.

Well, anytime you want, Carl, I always enjoy these.

Although I feel afterwards, I feel like, oh, God,

you talked too much.

I just want to tell you when you come on.

No, this is why I want you to be on my show.

So I can't do less work.

I just all have to do just sit back and listen.

That's all I do is listen and record.

Make my child's ears.

I'd like to interview you one of these days

and get your pitch, I lens.

Because you talk to so many different people.

And you've developed your own perspective

on so many things and issues.

It would be really wonderful to reverse roles sometime now.

I'll interview you.

How's that?

Feel free, feel free.

And any time we talk, you can feel free to reverse the table,

reverse the road, and put me on a screen.

Next time then, I'll come up with some questions for you

and things.

And it's really about how you're thinking

about all of these things.

Because you talked, as I said, you

talk to so many people.

And it's bound to have an effect.

Clearly, I can understand your point of view

from your questions, things like that.

But I know there's a lot of more nuances

and the way you're thinking and looking at stuff.

And it would be really, really, really nice to hear your voice.

All right.

So deal.

Let's do it next time.

OK.

Whatever you're ready, whatever you recovered

from this ordeal, we can think about the next one.

Thank you.

I know.

And thank you, everyone, for tuning in.

Until next time.

Bye-bye.

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