Jack Posobiec on Erika Kirk, Iran, and The Future of Turning Point USA | “YOUR WELCOME” #408

Folks, my new graphic novel, Unwanted, a tall tale of the Old Western New Wave, is out

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Now, I've been working on this for 25 years.

It's a dark comedy with a shiny exterior.

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Good afternoon, Michael Malice here.

Let that be your welcome for the next hour.

We have with us a returning guest, my dear friend Jack Passobick.

Jack is the author of Unhumans, which is our Communist Revolution.

I highly recommend it.

You've been one of the most influential people on the right for an over a decade at this

point, former Naval Intelligence Officer, and you're high up at Turning Point, USA.

Because of these fields of expertise, there were two big topics I want to talk to you about.

I think me and a lot of other people saw you at Turning Point after Charlie Passing,

standing on stage, holding up that rosary, and I know you have a good relationship with

Erica Kirk.

I want to discuss that first, because as someone who is probably more comfortable as an

anarchist, who's more comfortable with political violence than the average person, one of the

big reasons I against it is the families, when someone has taken out, even if they're

an evil person, which I do not think Charlie was by any means, there's a wife, there's

kids, so on and so forth.

Now, for many people online, Erica Kirk has been made into some sort of a hate object

for reasons that I find unfathomable, and the cynical part of my brain would say, well,

it's an op to divide the right and it's being done quite successfully to kind of break

apart the coalition that got Trump, a popular vote majority, and an electoral college,

large majority in 2024.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on that whole situation and things you've said to Erica,

anything about it.

Yeah, no, I mean, gosh, a lot there, obviously.

And, you know, are there other elements that want to divide the right right now?

I think that's clearly going on.

I think there's multiple vectors of division that are happening right now, and it's, you

know, beyond the specifics of what you just said, it's also a similar dynamic that we

saw in 2017.

So President Trump gets elected in 2016, it's sort of this surprise to, I think, a lot

of people in the mainstream, and then he becomes in power in Washington, and then all of

a sudden almost immediately, you see these elements of the establishment, elements of permanent

Washington getting into the administration, in many cases getting in directly to the

cabinet, and trying to push apart these sides of the movement to say, well, you know,

you're true, Maga, and you're not Maga.

And we saw this tension play out again, and again, and again, within 2017, and came to

the head, you know, really big, and I'll go back to your original question, but I'm just

saying it just reminds me so much of that timeframe that, and here we are in the second

year now, 27, 2026 of the second term, but it's still that same tension playing out.

It's the grassroots versus establishment.

Who is Maga?

What is Maga?

It's like, I'm living through that time period over again, because it's like, we had these

discussions, we had these arguments, we, you know, are we going to go to war in Syria?

Are we going to keep troops in Syria?

Are we going to have serious strikes?

All of these conversations and all of these tensions for those of us who are on your

order book about this period, in the new right, fantastic book, by the way, and it's

so much of those same tensions coming up.

Now, these are the Erica and Turning Point.

That's a different situation, but just on the question of division, I think very much

you see those similar forces at play.

When it comes to Turning Point, you know, man, and I was actually just, I spent all day,

yesterday at Turning Point, we had an event over at ASU, so I was, you know, sort of working

out at Turning Point headquarters there in Phoenix, and I sit back and think I can't

believe it's still just been six months.

It feels in a way, like it's been so long since, since Charlie was murdered, but at the

same time, you know, on paper, it hasn't been that long at all, as a matter of fact, it's

a couple of months, and it's just, I think the way our brains are wired now is totally

different and that we perceive time totally differently than we did, you know, 10 years

ago or certainly.

Yeah, can I say something?

You see this vis-a-vis Iran, where people are like, oh, it's been three weeks, how's

this not resolved?

And on the one hand, he's saying it's going to be done quickly, but any kind of international

operation, you wouldn't think there'd be 10 years ago, the idea that it would have a

beginning in the land within three weeks would have regarded as completely insane.

Yeah, it's like, is that, oh, is that movie still long?

Well, why not?

Just put it at 1.5x, you know, put it at 2x, and then just then we'll get to the end

or, you know, I'm getting bored, because our intention spans have totally, totally, you

know, been twisted and I myself included, I think, just were surrounded by these types

of technologies.

And so it's something where I do try to check in when I talk to Erica and I try to reach

out, you know, Charlie used to do this thing every day where he would sort of send a Bible

verse in the morning to, you know, it just over-text and knew with Charlie it was always,

there's always something he had been reading because it would just, it would seem random,

but it would, you know, to Charlie it was like, well, that's whatever section of the Bible

he's reading today, a lot of Old Testament.

And so I, you know, even if I don't have anything really going on, I'll try if I have

a Bible verse, I'll just send that off to Erica, you know, like once a day or so because

I know that that's what Charlie used to do.

And it's, you know, it's kind of for me too, right, to sort of just check in and continue

that tradition.

You know, when you see her and when you, you know, when you talk about it, you know, whatever

the drama of the day is or whatever the, you know, the current viral, whatever thing is

that's going on.

And yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously tensions because of that, but you also

realize that this is a mom, you know, you know, you kind of read her phone and, and, you know,

and, you know, and she's saying, hey, you know, it like has to quiet the kids down so

she can talk a little bit.

And, and that, that, you know, losing Charlie the way we did, it, I've said this before,

but it, you know, it, you know, it was upsetting, it, I hate it.

But it wasn't, it wasn't surprising in a sense, you know, it was, that was of all the

emotions I felt surprised wasn't really one of them because big part of us, I think,

all thought that something like this is going to happen at some point for those who've

been following political violence, who've seen the right word, who'll look about it.

Um, I think it would be Charlie, you know, that, that was definitely the, you know, something

I, you know, it didn't think of, but at the same time, we had all, I think we had all

who knew him said something to him at one point or another about those events that he

was doing, being outside, being the eye like that, and not having secret service level

protection the way that the president has or, you know, anyone in the administration, it's

just you, you're, you're more of a target because of that.

And the piece that always gets me the most upset is when I think about Erica and those kids

and the fact that this isn't just a new cycle for them, you know, this isn't some, oh,

we got you now because you said something on a podcast five years ago that slightly

contradicts something that you said, no, this isn't just, it's not just, uh, you know,

content, right?

It's, it's their entire lives have been irreckively changed.

His daughter will never be able to have her dad walk her down the aisle, right?

And that's just, that's just something that's so much bigger and so much more real and

so much more human and gutting than, and to your point, the political violence absolutely

affects the family's forever, absolutely forever.

And, you know, with his little boy, their little boy, he's so little, I mean, he's, he's,

um, he was lying to you yet.

And so, you know, is, I think not even to yet.

And it's just not, or no, he'll, yeah, he'll be too.

And, uh, you know, it has no understanding of what's going on whatsoever.

And we'll, you know, we will have to explain to him at some point and some point his

mom's going to have to explain to him all of this.

And so it's just something where when, when I see the attacks on Erica and when I see

these, and they just always feels like these, like these knit picking, they seem so small

when you're faced with the reality of what they have to live through every single day

of, you know, dad went to work and he's never going to come home again.

And now every single moment that you would have had, and I think about it when I'm with

my family.

And I think about it when I'm with my kids, it's just, it's one of those things that's

ever present that, you know, we could be sitting on the couch just watching a movie, watching

a family movie.

And it's like, Charlie's family's never going to have this.

And so, so what do I try to do?

You know, I try to just, I don't know, I just try to be near if that's possible.

I try to, you know, I try to say that I think that eventually this will, you know, probably

get to a point where, you know, I think it kind of implodes under its own weight, a lot

of the, you know, ridiculousness that gets spread because it's just, Jimmy, it's so silly.

And, and that it, and at the same time, you know, you have to try to just be a, be good

for and be a person.

I don't know.

There's no rulebook for this.

There's no playbook that's, that's laid out for, you know, what you're supposed to

do and something like this happens.

And, you know, I'm not going to sit there and say that everything that everyone's ever

done from turning point has been perfect or myself or anything like that.

But, you know, I would just say that you got to, you got to have grace for people when

they're going through something like that.

You just, you have to have grace and I try to have grace for people at the same time

because people, people process trauma in so many ways.

It's crazy.

You know, a lot of the clichés are kind of real about, oh, it comes in waves and, and

all this.

Totally true.

Even today, even, even here, we stand six weeks or six months later and see, I just

did it.

Oh my gosh, he just said six weeks.

It's actually been six months and, you know, you, I think I'm okay with it and then

all of a sudden something will hit me and it just, it takes me right back to that moment.

And we just did an event last night with, with the term point students at ASU and it, what

was cool, I'll put it this way, what's cool is to, is, is to see the amount of inspiration.

Let's come out of this for the young generation and, I mean, we had college freshmen coming

up saying, hey, how can I be like Charlie?

How can I do this?

How can I come up?

And what do I think Eric has done?

I think she's done the absolute best job that anyone could do in a, in a position that

she didn't ask for that none of us wanted to happen.

But if she hadn't stepped up the way that she did in, in those dark moments and in those

dark days, that, I don't, I don't know where a technical point would be right now.

I don't even know if the organization would still be together, but for the efforts of

America.

I'm thinking back to the Kavanaugh hearings, right?

Would Kavanaugh, who was a quiet boy and, was humiliated to the point where he had to

go on Fox and talk about how he was a virgin until 20 or something really completely has

nothing to do with his, you know, judicial record.

And, you know, they were out going through his high school yearbook to find something

to stop him about.

And he had that moment where he's like, yeah, I liked beer, I still like beer.

And then it's like, oh, my God, this man has a temper.

He probably beats his wife and kids.

He can't be in the Supreme Court.

But at the same time, if he had come there calmly, they would have been like, oh my God,

the man's associate path.

He's being accused of assaulting women and he has no emotional reaction.

He can't relate to human beings.

He shouldn't be on the Supreme Court.

So no matter what it is, he can't win.

And I feel it's that way with Erica.

It's like, I don't know what it's like to lose a spouse, especially in such a public

way with, you know, that footage.

I thank God.

I'm very, very fortunate.

I've never seen the clip to this day.

I've managed to avoid doing so.

You have watched it at all.

Nope.

Because I was my friend, DM me, did you hear something about it?

And I'm like, I'm going off social media.

I knew Charlie.

I do not need to see this.

And from every description I've seen, I'm making the right choice.

No one who has seen it has told me I'll be a better person for having seen it.

I'm very glad I've seen it.

I don't know if this is because I was like in the military or whatever.

I mean, maybe a cliche, but I've watched it a thousand times, at least.

It doesn't.

I hate it, but it, you know, for me, it's just, you know, trying to kind of how I process

things, I guess, try to try to understand.

So I want all the information, I want all the details, I want all the angles, I want

all the, you know, potential footage, et cetera.

And yeah, I've seen all of it.

And it definitely hit me when I, you know, I think I just first saw it.

I was still on social media.

I was actually live.

My show was live.

So I was sort of just scrolling, like, like, just regular scrolling and it just popped

up.

And I thought it wasn't.

I was hoping it wasn't real at first.

And then, you know, and then we called to some of the, some of the staff that was on

the ground.

And, you know, we found out that it was real.

Yeah.

And then all the people at the time, it was just, I saw some like, oh, you know, he's at

the hospital.

Maybe he'll be okay.

And other people like, he is not going to be okay.

You people are delusional.

Like, you know, that's how violent it was.

But to my point, you know, yeah, at a buddy, just just real quick on that, I had, because

I was, I was hearing that as well.

And I think there, there was a hope at one point that something could be done.

And I had a buddy call up, um, an army ranger buddy who said, look, man, I, I seen people

go down like that on battlefield.

And you, you think you can figure it out, you think they can fix it, but they don't get

back up.

Right.

They just, they just don't get back up.

Not after that.

But, but also now, people going after Erica, like this or that, it's like, oh, she's wearing

leather pants.

It's like, like to your said that when you said earlier, there's no rule look for this

or God book for this.

What's the wardrobe?

I want her in a shroud tearing it for the next year.

Like she's a young woman, former pageant girl, I don't, I don't say that in a disrespectful

way.

It, if she wants to look pretty or sexy, like who's going to begrudge her that?

Like, I, I have no idea what's going through her head.

I cannot relate to that.

I, very few people, fortunately, can relate to that horrible, a situation.

So you, like you said earlier, I would think a little grace would go a long way.

But the fact that she's been made, you know, this, this target and even been accused of

being in on it is, to me, just as low as it gets.

No, it's, it's despicable.

And I, I always ask to, you know, having seen the video so many times, I always sort of ask

and say, well, you know, just as a rubric, you know, well, if, if, if there was, if all

of these people, supposedly, you know, who were standing around him were also in on it,

why were they all standing in the line of fire, you know, why were they all just

they're all just standing right there if they know something's going to happen.

You know, it's, there was a, there was a meme of, because this, this very same argument

comes up from the left or contention, I guess, comes up from the left with Donald Trump

with the, uh, Butler shooting with, uh, Thomas Matthew Crookes.

Oh, yeah.

And I think, uh, in my, I'm afraid who it is, it's, uh, uh, freezer pain or someone on

Twitter had the meme up and he goes, you guys, oh, oh, it's Trump talking on the phone

to Thomas.

Tommy, you're the greatest sniper in the world.

And I, and I want to make sure you know, just the tip, Tommy, just the tip from, I'm going

to, I'm going to turn my head slightly.

That's the, that's the key, okay?

And, and no one's ever going to know, but, but don't worry, because you'll always be

a patriot in my book, you know, and it's like, it's, it's just so ridiculous when you,

when you consider the actual situation and I'm, you know, and, and like, I also have a

little bit of, I try to have a little bit of openness to at least understanding that we've

lived through such a, in 2020, I think just broke a lot of narrative illusions for people

that existed in reality.

And so for a lot of people, they went through this time frame that it felt like reality

itself was breaking, uh, you have COVID, you have the lockdowns, you have the vaccine

pushes.

We have the, yeah, perhaps Dean, you know, occurs and, um, then the 2020 election occurs

and it's like, she's like, was it stolen, was it not stolen?

We're not allowed to check, actually, haha, you know, and, and so so many of these big things

occur that people are suddenly realizing, wait a minute, what if all of my reality is

constructed?

And so I try to put myself in somebody else's shoes and say, well, when something

horrible like this happens, could it potentially be something else?

And so I get where people, I get why people would potentially want to, you know, to ask

questions about that.

I don't disparage it at all.

But what I do disparage is, you know, I come back on, it's like, well, just because these

other things happened, that doesn't mean that this thing also happened, right?

It's the natural policy, um, you know, not all extra like this, that, you know, we've

seen members of the transgender community that have been involved in violence for quite

some time, let, you know, over the last couple of years.

And in fact, even just recently, there's been a number of instances.

And I always point out, say, well, you don't have any problem with, you know, saying,

well, this was a, you know, translated thing, this was a translated thing.

So why can't this be one?

It just, it just fits into that.

And then when you see the evidence, you know, and it, it, it seems to point, I have questions,

you know, where other people involved with their, with their like groups and friends and

like your boyfriend, you know, could that, you know, all right, all right, I know I'm jumping

around.

But I have to ask this, the, the, the, so let's, let's, let's stipulate that those text

messages that came out real, right, that you remember the one line in there where, where

it says, Hey, you remember those bullets?

I was etching in the, in the house, and well, actually that was for this.

And I, I remember thinking sitting there going, you know, imagine, imagine if I've got

a roommate, and, and Michael's my roommate, and I see Michael over in the corner and he's

etching words into bullets on the couch, I might say, Hey, Mike, what are you etching

in the bullets for?

What are you, what are you, what are you hanging out there doing that for?

Is that just for, for fun or something?

No, you think you're going to ask, you're going to ask, you would ask, what is that for?

Why are you doing that?

And it seemed like there were some pretty specific phrases that were used, including Bella

Chowl.

There's like an antifa phrase, and there's, you know, hay, fascist, catch, which is,

again, very specifically targeted.

And this idea that, so people were saying that, oh, he made those text messages because

it's, you know, exculpatory because it's actually like the end of breaking bad.

And oh, we'll see it's just a way to show that he was innocent, that Lance was innocent.

And I say, well, okay, but then why would you talk about the bullets?

And if he said that he knew about the bullets, anyway, like I could, I could, I could,

I could spurg out on this for hours, but it is something that I have a lot of questions

about to say, well, if you knew about the bullets, how could you not have known what they

were for?

Yeah.

No.

I have questions too.

That's my point.

I have questions too.

I agree.

It's very plausible that he was working with others in some capacity.

Now, the extent of the involvement is not clear, but, you know, it could be him just

doing brainstorming or someone getting him weaponry or something like that.

I've also thought back to Gabby Giffords.

I mean, there's no claim, you know, she was shot in Arizona.

Her husband, Mark Kelly is a center complaining presidential run, you know, the, you know,

the New York Times tried to pin on Sarah Palin at the time and she sued them, I think,

unsuccessfully.

But, you know, the crosshairs, yeah, we live in these politically violent times and it's,

it's kind of horrific to your point about COVID, you know, I, I think something else that

happened that hasn't gone away is everyone saw their neighbors lose their minds.

So there were two scenarios, either my neighbors, who I thought were smart, were taking a medication

that had no history that was innovative.

And yet the manufacturers were guaranteed to be immune from prosecution.

And I'm supposed to assume that no one is going to have consequences on this, something

which is not possible, even for something like sugar or water or salt.

Or we have a deadly pandemic and we have a safe medicine and people are refusing to take

it and they're willing to kill their neighbors just because they're obstinate and stupid.

Those are the two scenarios, whichever scenario you are, you saw your neighbors acting

in ways that were incomprehensible to you and profoundly alienating to your frame of mind.

And I don't think we've returned from that.

And I think that has become a new baseline where people have been psychologically and profoundly

alienated from their countrymen in a way we haven't seen.

Even in the Civil War, you understood each other, okay?

You want to own slaves.

I think slavery is important.

That wasn't the basis for the Civil War, but the mindsets were not at all impossible to

wrap your hand around.

You remember when I used to get to, when you heard in the Civil War and you'd read Civil

War histories and they would say, oh, it's split families and father return again, son

and brother return again, brother.

And I remember as a kid reading about that and it's thinking, like, how can I ever turn

against my dad?

How can my brother, like, I would never, you know, we could argue and fight and beat

each other up or do whatever, but I'd never, you know, take up arms against my family

members and that through both COVID and the political moment that we're living in, it's

like I see it now.

I totally get it.

I totally get it.

Well, I think also back then there was more of an honor culture.

So if you're called to serve for the cause, you know, you have to put family and all this

other stuff aside and kind of have courage and the greater good as you perceive it coming

first.

I think that was probably more of a motivator than it would be now, don't you think?

Yeah, I think that's right.

And that this, by the way, and, you know, total side, total side topic, but that's, that's

was one of the reasons that a guy like Robert E. Lee was actually respected on both sides

of the war.

Yes.

By Lincoln to lead the army to the north, the army to the Union at one point.

And he, he refuses to, again, not over the issue of slavery, but because he views his

honor as a Virginian that he has to serve his state.

And it's, you know, one of the, Robert E. Lee is not, you know, he's not tried as a traitor

after the war when many others were because that, you know, a lot of people thought they

wouldn't even be able to find him guilty because so many people had that respect for him.

And that's why post-war, you know, when so many statues of him were made, that, that

was done.

It was actually paid for by the federal government as a means of reunifying the country where

they could say, all right, well, here's a guy we both respect.

So there's this whole anachronism now that, oh, well, that wasn't true, you know?

And it's, it's play, it's because our political moment has gone back to that sort of, you

know, tension of the time that we can't actually see the nuance anymore.

We can't point out, well, this was, this was honor culture, which is totally different

from the way we view things today.

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Let's get back to the show.

You brought up nuance and something else I want to discuss about political violence.

I remember during Trump's first term, a white nationalist Richard Spencer was sucker punched

on the face in the streets.

I think of DC.

And I wrote an article denouncing it because I'm like, if you're going to be advocating

for this so-called punch a Nazi by your logic, the logic of people who would say that, you

know, everyone in the Trump administration is a Nazi, right?

So are you advocating that people should go up and punch Kelly Conway in the face?

And a lot of people would say yes.

But if that is your thinking, the natural conclusion is going to be something like Charlie.

And we saw this for miles away, many others.

This is the logical conclusion of where it leads.

Antifa explicitly is about using violence against fascists or who they regard as fascists.

And when you have these loose definitions of who a fascist is and you're going to include

Charlie Kirk by this rubric, you know, all bets are off.

And the other thing, you're someone who understands kind of the sociology of politics in the same

way I do, the other word about Charlie is it was a demonstration, it was a flex.

Because Lemtis could see they took out Charlie.

Yeah, you lost one's foot soldier, but there was not this insane right wing reaction or

overreaction like there was a January 6th, right?

You didn't have massive media attention.

You didn't have mass like this can never happen again.

You know, a huge apparatus put into place for years to investigate and lock down.

There was none of that.

So I, you know, I remember Andy know was talking about when he was getting milkshakes

thrown at him with those that concrete in them, but I think there was some celebrities

getting glitter bombed and it was, I think it was Andrew Sullivan who pointed out, these

are soft assassination attempts.

These are demonstrations to everyone.

Look how easy it is to get to this figure and throw something on them.

Someone is going to put two and two together.

So I think especially now the threat of political violence is not getting better, it is getting

worse.

And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

So I did something a couple months ago, you know, in the wake of all this that I don't

think many people, I certainly didn't think I was going to do this, but so when I went

to, we had this antifa round table and Andy know was there and Nick Shirley and Nick

Sordor and Savannah Hernandez, Katie Davis court and so many great people that have done

this work of infiltrating and exposing these far left violent groups and, you know, sort

of the round table fell to me.

And I said, and I said, this is my biggest worry, Mr. President.

I said, you look at Thomas Matthew Crookes, you look at Luigi Magioni, who is celebrated

and there's broadly musicals about him.

Right.

Now with Tyler Robinson, by the way, they all fit a very specific profile in terms of

age and in terms of downwardly mobile white males, highly intelligent yet either, you know,

dropped out of school or dropped out of like the corporate world.

There's similar age band as well.

And so as I said, Mr. President, the situation is not getting better, it is getting worse.

And we are going to see more assassinations and I fear that the next person who was assassinated

is more than likely sitting at this table right now.

Yeah.

And basically kind of told the president that, and as he knows that his life is still at

risk because of this.

And we have seen, there's a guy who climbed over the fence at Marlago with a shotgun and

a gas can just a couple of weeks ago.

And it's becoming so bad that we've actually normalized assassination attempts of President

Trump.

And it's like, oh yeah, there was another one, oh yeah, there was that guy.

You know, that was just it's just another Thursday, like someone's trying to kill the president.

And you know, there's that line and always with honor by Piotr Rango where he says that

even as the Bolshevik Revolution was waging, you could go to St. Petersburg and normal

social life would continue unabated as if nothing was happening and they would not become

victims of the violence to come, the madness to come.

And I totally get it now because, you know, we're seeing attempt after attempt made on

the president's life, you know, conservatives lives, you've got Charlie Kirk murdered.

And yet you see people who sort of just shrugged off, they just, they just kind of shrugged

off.

And it might be that they don't have, you know, second order thinking and third order

thinking and not realize that how bad and how quickly that can spiral out of control.

As you say, you didn't have that overreaction with Charlie's murder.

And I always sort of point out from my perspective that that that's because we're just not the

people that, you know, the journalists, so we say we are that, oh, you're, you know,

these guys, these crazy, right-wing types, you know, we didn't pick up arms.

We picked up like crosses and bibles and when held prayer vigils and candles.

And that's how we responded.

But at the same time, because I know how history works and because I've studied this and

written about this, that violence does eventually at some point be get violence in return.

And I don't want to go to that place.

I don't want to be in that place in this country.

I don't ever want to go to that place.

Somebody asked me last night, they said, well, you've, you know, you wrote a book and you

talked about General Franco in that book.

And are you saying that's a model for the United States?

And I had to say, no, I don't want that to be where the United States goes.

I don't want to see the civil war, a civil war situation like that.

It's, I would, I would very much prefer that the way you deal with this is number one.

You have to speak out against anyone using this type of rhetoric or condoning or normalizing

things like, yes, even punching Richard Spencer in the face or bless you.

If it's a, what's that off?

Or if it's, you know, if it's Nick Fuente's punching him in the face,

or there was a guy who showed up at Nick Fuente's house and had a gun and had just killed

somebody and was like asking if Nick was there or something, just a couple of months ago.

I know he talked about it on Tucker as well.

And I mean, that's, that's important.

Obviously, important.

And I would say that for anyone on the left, destiny, whoever, anyone on the left as well.

At the same time, though, when you find people who are, you know, condoning that type of

violence or even, you know, contemplating it, you have to crack down very swiftly.

And where I would, you know, where I would definitely give,

you know, give lower marks to the, you know, the DOJ here is that we just, as you say,

we haven't seen that level of reaction yet.

They've talked about it at length.

They said, oh, we're going to go after some of these left wing groups.

And we're going to go after here.

We're going to go after there.

And I just, I just keep not seeing it.

So let's change tracks.

You were in Naval Intelligence Officer.

I like many other people and very confused about why we're in Iran.

Obviously, Israel is heavily involved with that decision-making.

I don't think that Netanyahu didn't have some kind of end game in mind before he went in.

If you're going, even if you're going to assume that Trump hadn't,

I was talking Luc Rukowski last week on Tim Kast.

And he had the idea that the vision was, okay, Israel, back with UAE.

And Saudi become the dominant power in that Middle East.

And then we can move on.

We mean America can move on and focus on China as the big, bad threat.

And that's kind of the big end boss.

You speak Chinese.

You know, a lot about the CCP and it's dangers in the US and worldwide.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to that theory and just Iran and our vision

there, mission there in general.

Well, you know, thank you.

And I have heard that theory and and I get really if you're saying that's what Luke said,

I get that he's he's not saying that's what he believes.

But you know, he's explaining that that could be a potential strategy here at play.

And I have heard that said in DC as well.

I just don't know if if this is the right way to get there, though,

because when you're talking about going up against it.

So Iran is an order of magnitude larger and more powerful and more ancient than Iraq

or, you know, the current state of Iraq, you know, post-World War One Iraq or Afghanistan

with, you know, the Taliban has only been in power since the 90s.

But but even then, you know, Afghanistan has been the great guard of empires

for far longer than that.

And it's it's a country where you're talking 90 million people.

It's twice the size of Iraq.

You're talking a country that harkens itself back to the Persian Empire of old,

of antiquity, where, you know, I think the only guy who was successful there

was Alexander the Great.

So, you know, if you go back 2,200 years, we found one guy who was able to do it.

And using methods that, you know, quite frankly,

are probably not going to be palatable today in our information environment

with ticket, you know, TikTok and Twitter videos and streaming all the rest.

So, you know, could this be a play to put China in a box?

Yeah, maybe.

I mean, you don't even need to directly take out Iran.

If you want to put China in a box or put a hark on them, you, you what you would do

is you would shut down the straight-of-formers the other way, right?

So, you would, because 90% of Iran's oil petroleum exports go to the CCP.

CCP is not resource rich.

And so they, they do have some oil stock, but it's, it's not anywhere near

compared to what they need in terms of their growth.

So, they, they need more Japanese empire and you had the same problem

in World War II for their war machine.

That's one of the reasons they have made a ventreia.

So, so immediately.

And so you would, what, what the United States could easily do, just again,

if this was your strategy, you would, you would sanction Iranian oil.

And I've said this on Fox News, you could do the exact same strategy

that they were using with Venezuela and some of the Russian ghost fleet

and say, hey, we're going to go for those tankers.

And this tanker comes out and if it broke the sanctions, boom,

United States Navy boards, seizes, turns it around, does whatever they

want with it, you know, people, oh, it's against international law.

Well, they said the same thing with Venezuela.

They said the same thing with, you know, with the Russian ghost fleet.

Any of the United States did it, did it as well.

So I just don't know if it holds water with me because if that really was the

goal, that, that wouldn't be what you're doing.

Plus, now that you've gotten into a shooting war with Iran, which, you know,

currently we're in, that so much, it's putting so much of a depletion

element on the air interceptor, these air defense missiles that are so

freaking expensive and so hard to come by.

We do not produce them quickly.

And now they're even talking about moving some of our air defense systems,

including our Thad, um, terminal high altitude system from South Korea,

the Korean, Korean peninsula and moving that to defend these Middle Eastern

allies, which what does that do?

Well, that takes away one of the absolutely critical nodes that the United

States had on Beijing, because you look at it from on a map, the Korean

peninsula is just, you know, just adjacent to the Bohai Gulf right across from

Beijing.

So, you know, when it was put there, um, Korea, China basically put a ban on

all, you know, all trade with Korea for like a year because they were

furious.

They pointed out that the radar systems, the early warning radar systems

associated with that could easily penetrate into Chinese territory into the

Chinese capital, they viewed it as an act of war.

But the Koreans still did it because the Koreans stood by our alliance.

They were, in fact, a great ally and allowed the United States to do this.

But now if we just take that away from them, it's like we did all that for,

you know, it's like we made them go through all that for, for nothing,

basically, um, Japanese are still there.

No question, but, you know, the Japanese also realize that if they pull all

of their, uh, if they're ships and, you know, they're not aircraft carriers,

they are helicopter launchers, uh, it's totally different, totally different

for defense of purpose only.

And, uh, Japanese maritime self defense fleet, um, yes, uh, only for self defense.

And, um, and so you, you have the situation where we're going to drop all our

military coverage in, in, in Indo-Pacific for sent-com, then what does that

give China or North Korea for that matter, the ability to do.

They've got a free hand if they want to, if they want to go and, you know,

try to take Taiwan Island or if they want to, which, which I think is probably

the least likely, obviously the most dangerous, but least likely,

but what more realistically the Chinese could do is they could go for some

of these disputed islands with the Japanese or they've got disputed areas in

the South China Sea, Scarborough Shoal with the Philippines, other areas

down there where they could easily just push in and say, Hey, no one's coming

to help you.

So we're just going to take more and more and more and more and more and keep

pushing and pushing and pushing and then eventually get to the point where

you guys realize that, you know, your buddies all the way across the Pacific

are totally, you know, totally bogged down and they're not going to come to

help you, which by the way, I think is part of the, was part of the

calculus for the Iran operation because Iran's largest military partner, of

course, is Russia, but Russia is totally bogged down in the Ukraine war.

They're, they're being aided right now by the, the high gas prices and high

oil prices.

So I would absolutely look for a very large, some are offensive by the

Russians in Ukraine.

Ukraine, of course, conducted a huge attack in St. Petersburg over, I guess

two days ago now, hit their oil supply.

So they're, you know, obviously know that something is coming.

But again, they're not able to respond with Iran and they weren't

able to respond to Syria.

So what I think is morally going on is that they looked at the Syria model

of how Assad was ultimately driven from power by you, you had the Turks,

you had the Jordanians were sort of helping some of these opposition groups.

Obviously, the Kurds up in the North, we saw they were trying to get the

Kurds involved here in Iran because that's just on the other side of the

border, if you look at it, it's sort of this, this like, you know,

four corners region in the Middle East where the Kurds live.

And, you know, they were able to weaken the Syrian state through, you

know, a decade plus of a dirty war, civil war, where eventually when, you

know, these Turkish-backed opposition forces came down from the North,

they were able to get Assad to flee.

And, you know, it's left a state that at this point is, is, I was

a not really functional and still has these simmering sectarian divides.

You see, mass killing of Christians and villages, mass killing of

allowites that's going on, Syria still being bombed by the Israelis.

And, but they're just so weakened that they don't really have any ability

to do anything.

And you've got this guy, Al Jalani, who's essentially just, just

Erdogan's, you know, Erdogan's guy there in Damascus, but he's not really in

charge.

So, you know, they're thinking, hey, that was so successful.

But then Israel operation was so successful.

Let's try it at Iran.

Hi, I just, I, where do you think this end?

So we're, I'm here and, and me and everybody else, not unique to me here

and complete different things.

The White House is obviously saying, look, you know, they're on their knees.

I want someone to surrender.

But since I keep killing them, there's no one to take my call.

Iran is saying we've only just begun to fight.

You guys have, you know, started something we're going to finish it.

F-A-F-O, obviously the straight of our moves has been largely closed,

which is essential to international oil trade, obviously.

So who do you think is winning?

And where do you think this is going?

And what's the end game going to look like for all parties?

Well, so it's, it's, it's a really interesting question of winning, right?

Because when you look at it from President Trump's immediate, you know,

this sort of outline of the war aims, he's been largely successful

in being able to take care of all of them with the exception of,

you know, getting the people to rise up and take over the government.

But other than that, the IOTO has been taken out.

I mean, that was obviously the inciting incident in terms of the timing.

They knew about this meeting.

So that's when, you know, that's when the decision was made.

And, you know, it, and it was Israel who provided that, that evidence.

So if you want to, you know, take the Joe Kent route and say,

what Israel pushed us to do this, you know, or if you want to look at it and say,

well, President Trump used Israeli intelligence.

I mean, it's, it's clearly together.

There's no, you know, there's no way you can separate that, you know, just intellectually.

And the, the, what, you know, what came next, the missile, you know,

missile depletion, we've seen missile depletion hitting, hitting the military.

We've seen hitting the military.

So, you know, on down the line, that's, that's all been done.

But what Iran realized, I think, after watching the Iraq war, and remember,

Iran was backing so many of these Shia groups and still does back so many of the Shia groups in Iraq.

So for, for a long time, it was all Iranian intelligence, IRGC, that were watching

what the United States was doing in Iraq.

But they were also watching how Saddam Hussein regime fell.

And one of the steps that they took to potentially take kind of a, have insurance

that this could never happen to them, was that they decentralized the regime in Iran.

So, what you have, so if you remember early on, when, when it looked like the IRGC was just sort of

bombing everything, like crazy, and they were going all out and they were even hitting the

pipelines in Azerbaijan, which that's, and that's where Israel gets their oil from Azerbaijan.

And so, you know, why was the IRGC doing that?

Well, because that's where the IDF gets their, their fuel supplies from.

So, of course, you know, you wouldn't take out their fuel supply, too.

And, and then one of the, I think it was the Iranian foreign minister came out a little while

later once the situation had kind of stabilized and say, said, hey, we've reestablished direct

control over the IRGC, but for a time they were operating independently.

I was like, wait, operating independently.

What does that mean? And I realized that, you know, the, and I, as you say, I was a,

I was a China guy when I was in the military.

So, I'm reading up some of Iran's doctrine on this and say, oh, well, I didn't even realize

that the IRGC has a structure where it's totally decentralized that in a situation like that,

where they experienced loss of leadership, it's sort of a standing order that you just launch

attacks. And that's why we saw, saw so many attacks on the Gulf neighbors, on Azerbaijan,

on all these other countries, because those orders, which would normally come from Tehran,

which would normally come from the higher leadership, it was delegated down to these local

unit levels. And you see the, and, and then I started reading some more on this and kind of

tugging this thread and realizing that, oh, so they've set up their entire structure,

their whole regime operates like this, their electric grid operates like this, their,

their power structure operates like this, their military, specifically the IRGC operates like this.

So, there isn't really one person that you can just get rid of, and the regime goes away.

And that's, which is very similar to the CCP, by the way, because they have, they have

standing units and standing committees all over the country. So, yeah, Xi Jinping is the main guy,

but, you know, he's got his supporters and he's got units all over the place. So, you can't just,

you know, take out one guy and expect the entire leadership to fall. I was, somebody asked me

the other day too, they said, well, why is Iran still fighting? And, you know, when we took out

the Supreme Leader, I said, well, and they just, for, you know, sake of argument, I'm not saying

I want this to happen, but just hypothetically, if someone took out Donald Trump with the United

States just surrender, would we just, oh, well, you got us, we're done. This isn't true.

No, of course not. Do you have the Vice President come up and we go to war? There's no question,

that's exactly what we would do. So, if that's what we would do, why would you expect another country

to do differently? Like, never you enter my head that some would expect you take out their top guy,

and then it's like, all right, that's literally 2D chess. You take out the king, you win.

Obviously, he's not literally king, but that is really a bizarre. But I just, I just want to go

back. Do you have any, but if you, if you listen, just there's, there's a version of sort of this

caricature, I guess, of the Iranian state that that tells you that that's how it works. That you

just, you take out one guy and they're going to fall apart and the people are going to rise up,

and that's it. And we've certainly heard people say that. Okay, when's it going to happen, guys?

When is the, where's the popular uprising? They're even the Kurds. Even the Kurds that

Western leaders were trying to get urged to, you know, to launch this ground offensive. They said,

yeah, we're good. Well, no, we're a couple of points. We're good.

We're going to send some trigonometry. My huge concern with Iran is that like with Afghanistan,

that a lot of people are going to trust the US, and they're going to think, okay, the US has our

back, and they're going to rise up or help us. And then America's give me like, all right, good luck,

and that they're all going to be like pigs to the slaughter. And thankfully, the Iranian people

and the Kurds are smarter than that and realize, I don't know that we can rely on the US to see

this through to the end, to the extent of guaranteeing all of our safety. Second, again, I'm not

at all an expert on Iran, but you have the president, who's the largest secular figure. You have

the Ayatollah, you have whoever's the head of the military. So even if you did take one of those,

you know, just off the top, just typathetically, you have two other power centers who could assume

and consolidate power. And in any country that's attacked, you're going to have this rally, the flag

situation, because you're not going to be this whole idea that, you know, the invaders are the

good guys. Even if, you know, many, I'm sure, Iranians do have American sympathies. At the same

time, we're bombing Tehran to such an extent that people living there, I heard one resident saying

it's like a dragon who's being unleashed. And it's very hard to be like, it's the good guys that

are bombing us to oblivion, you know, so on and so forth. It's traumatic. I mean, just for the

citizenry war is a traumatic situation that I've not experienced that I wouldn't wish an adverse

for anybody. And there was Russia kind of made a similar, you know, I think, miscalculation

in the early, or it was getting the early Ukraine invasion. They, you remember, they were saying

this. Putin was talking about a Ruski nearer and the Russian world. And this is about bringing

the Russian world together. And we're going to knock out the regime in Ukraine. And the people of

Ukraine are going to rise up and say, we want to rejoin the motherland, the rejoined mother Russia,

and they were part of Russia during the Soviet era. They were part of Russia during the empire.

And it's time for us all to rejoin. And that, you know, that just, you know, I'm sure there were some,

you know, provincial, you know, leaders and oblasts that, you know, said, okay, we'll work with

the Russians here and there. But by and large, with the exception of the provinces that had already

broken away, that it had already been separatists, Lugansk and Donetsk, you just, you didn't really see

that. And it was, you know, it's kind of like wish, it's they call it wish casting where it's this,

so that I wish this to happen so much and it just doesn't happen. So you don't get this quick

victory, quick regime collapse. Now what do you have to do? Well, you know, the, and the Russians,

being the Russians who do not like to quit, they said, all right, well, we're going to dig in and

do this the other way. And that's what they have continued to do. And it's been a four year

war of attrition since. And, you know, I think the question here is now, so I've, the way I've

laid it out is this is that, you know, President Trump is at a crossroads on this where, you know,

do we want to dig in and go into this war of attrition with the Iranians, which is clearly

going to be costly for not only ourselves in terms of money, we've already lost airmen and soldiers

in terms of this, but it's also going to be very, very deadly for the Middle Eastern

partners, including Israel, which is currently getting, I mean, my buddy, Trey Inx,

who I used to work with, is there in Tel Aviv every day. And then the ballistic missiles are making

it through and they found ways to recalibrate through the Iron Dome and through that. And again,

you know, the lack of air defense is starting to become more and more pressure and more and more

prevalent and realizing that, you know, you're not totally defended 100% at the time now, these

missiles are making their way through. They are continuing to be more advanced. And who knows,

do the Chinese come in and resupply the Iranians, do the Russians come in and conduct some kind of

resupply, you know, it could, there are so many ways, myriad of ways that that could spiral out of

control. I think that's obvious to everybody, you know, and then again, if Saudi gets in, et cetera,

et cetera. And, you know, then there's also, you know, I think in the news, the biggest thing

right now is President Trump looking at some, some formation of a, of a, you know, a light raid,

light infantry raid or a special forces raid on this Carg Island. And, you know, will that be

enough to stop the Iranians from fighting? And, you know, at the same time, even if it, you know,

even if you take Carg Island, obviously it's going to be very hard to defend that because that's,

it's so, it's in such close proximity to the Iranian mainland, you're now within conventional

artillery range. So they don't even need fancy missiles. They can just lock rockets at you from

there, from artillery shells. And, you know, it's gonna be like case on and Vietnam. But at the same

time, you, you know, you, you, you still haven't really stopped Iran, to our point earlier, with

this whole decentralized power structure that they have, have you really gotten to the point

where they can, you know, they're gonna collapse. I don't know. However, what did we see the President

say yesterday? He said, we have talks. I understand that Steve Whitkoff is in Pakistan right now, with

Jared Kushner, they're trying, right next door. So they're trying to see if they can get some kind

of intermediary relationship. By the way, just sending people to Pakistan in a situation like this,

it's pretty ballsy. You have to say, you know, you know, you certainly run there. You just assassinated

their leader and you're gonna show up right next door in a place like that. That's, that's very

dangerous. So I mean, it takes a lot of courage to do that. It really does. And, and for people not

realizing that, you know, that it's, that it's, you know, potential, it's, it's just there, it's

potential. And so I, I would love if, to see if President Trump, you know, he might actually be

able to say, you know what, we have this deal. We figured it's something out for the street of

Hormuz. We've, you know, we set up an oral situation that's going to be better for everybody. We

can get to a point of agreement on the enriched uranium, which, you know, it's still at the bottom

of these, you know, these, these bunkers where it's been locked up since last June. And he could,

he could say, look, my initial victory conditions for the war have been met and we've come to a deal.

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So you know when the big lessons of international diplomacy was Saddam didn't have weapons of

mass destruction. He ends up hanged. Libya gave up their program. Gaddafi ends up

satanize to death and then you look like you said to Pakistan they had Osama bin Laden there

but they have nukes and they had no consequences for it like no one ever talks about them being

the bad guys of the enemy zero repercussions because they have the nukes and I'm looking at Iran

not just from professionals they they we still pay them we pay them. Yeah however much a year.

So in Trump's first term he assassinated General Salamani no consequences. Iran just recently got

bombed by Israel for was a 12-day war no how long that was no consequences. So Iran was basically

telling us you can do what you want we're not going to fight back the next time the whatever country

that is they're going to learn a lesson okay the first time you do anything we have to counter punch

harder and faster and Trump certainly knows about counter punching that's basically his MO

on Twitter and in real life. So this is creating a I don't see how this and I don't see how if I'm

Iran and I know seeing things from another country's point of view is anathema many people I don't

know if I'm Iran I can cut a deal with the guys who just came in and dropped the haven't made

ton bomb on their equivalent of the White House it's it just seems crazy to me. Yeah no I mean

and certainly we're hearing that from the Iranian side where there there's a lot of rally

around the flag there's a lot of chess pounding there there they said we are not having conversations

we are not talking now I imagine some of that is also for public consumption because

computers are being listened to by their you know by their populace they're getting hit as much

as we are or you know they're taking the conventional hit whereas they're hitting us you know asymmetrically

so you know they're not hitting they're not able to take out our military but what can they do they

can make the price of your gas pump go you know go astronomical go go parabolic right they can do

that very quickly they can you know they can mess with the straight of her moves and suddenly

you know and suddenly everybody's like why is my gas so expensive why am I playing ticket so

expensive et cetera and so there is this level of bringsmanship and I don't think to your point

I don't think a new government wants to come in saying oh you know and and their first act is

you know we cut a deal with these guys who just killed our who and and keep in mind that within

the Shia culture right within within Shia Islam that you know the leader and becoming a martyr

is is it's like the whole thing is based on martyrdom right you want to become a martyr this is

this is their whole belief structure so the idea that you've taken a holy martyr and that has

made his sacrifice in vain could also be a huge problem for hardliners here however

I guess the one possibility I could see is and this this I've seen this assessment from some

others as well as that the military perhaps could be more pragmatic in terms of this and perhaps

less you know less ideologically inclined to say look you know we want to stay in power we probably

don't want to get into a long war either that's going to be extremely costly for us you know

are they going to dislodge us you know took the Taliban what 25 years you know it took

you know however many years in Iraq so you know do we want to do that or do we want to take the

quick route out and and find something that's going to work that could also happen and by the way

you saw this in the 1970s in the tanker wars you saw this with with other instances where

Iran has been willing to be pragmatic so despite the you know you'd public pronouncements of the

religious leaders the secular leaders in Iran do actually have this sort of like underlying track

record of pragmatism and whether it also could be this this Korean war situation where it's just

some kind of weird armistice and we just sort of agree to stop fighting yeah and everyone's

still technically at war so I also want to know what do you think are the prospects for the GOP

in 2028 oh I thought you were going to say 26 I mean 28 it's too far to it's too far away to tell

at this point you know it will largely depend on the success of President Trump there's no question

about that you know whoever runs whether it be JD whether it be Marco whether it be by the way

RFK you know I wouldn't wouldn't count him out we know that he's run before Mahaz very strong

very popular political movement which sort of is part of MAGA but also quite separate from MAGA

in many ways you know it's it's a very viable movement I wouldn't count that out for a second

so I think the GOP has a strong field it's largely going to be contingent on again where the

president puts his approval where he gets the country in terms of the next you know two two and

a half years over a rat between now and then and you know it's it's it's obviously started already

I would say the 2028 primary I think if you haven't you know if you haven't been paying attention

to politics in the last couple of months you don't realize that the 2028 primary has 100 percent

already begun we're seeing that and you're already kind of see the chips move in different places

and the chess pieces move in different ways where sort of the there's like the Rubio side that's

over here and then there's like JD Vance is kind of more in the you know America first MAGA wing

and then Ron DeSantis I think was on a podcast recently talking about his vote he was talking about

his vote share of the primary if Donald Trump wasn't running I said well it's kind of an apples

to orange's situation because number one Donald Trump was running and also you know you we hadn't

been through the second Trump administration yet so it's you know it's hard to you know play that

game but either way he's you know sending signals out that perhaps he's interested in throwing his

hat back in the ring and he's you know he's a young man JD Vance is a young man so I certainly

you know I certainly wouldn't surprise me if we saw any of them running and the Democrats the

Democrats problem by the way is they have no bench right they have who do they have they have

Gavin Newsome like it's it's and or James Taloriko like are you serious I was I was

in a debate with a liberal yesterday and they and they said what do you think James Taloriko

is going to flip Texas and I just started laughing like like this guy like really like well what do

you mean don't you think he's gonna win Christian but and I just I'm like I'm sorry like I can't

even answer you with a straight face like that's just too funny so it's too funny I feel like

you know in the same way that the the anti-war movement in the Republican parties like Lucy

with the football um Texas Democrats there's this bizarre uh we're gonna get him this time and this

has been this like the fourth time so the Wendy I think her last name was Rogers she gave this

filibuster speech on the um Texas ethnic states and a floor she was the gubernatorial candidate

and people holding out sneakers because like she gave this speech in sneakers and there was all

this national outpouring like oh my god when he's gonna flip Texas yeah she was like the super

like she was like she made a portion like a really big you know you know part of her can I remember

yeah yeah yeah yeah and she lost by like 20 points then you had Beto oh crap Beto is gonna win

all this money all this attention he's so photogenic in the anyways treatment in vanity fair cover

with the dog and it was like the whole thing and then this which by the way you take a guy Beto

who's a back bench congressman who's served however many terms of congress he never heard of him

before but it does show you the power of the media does show you the media does still have its

its influence in a sense right not over everyone but over a portion where they can take someone

and say oh this guy's a star now he's he's so great you're gonna you're gonna love this guy

he's awesome you know he's definitely a kind of some reason I kind of feel like Timothy

Chalamet is like kind of another example of this where you like we're like they have no talent

whatsoever but you know they're just sort of like they're there and they're gonna be stars now

and and you know the minute the media machine turns off they just vanish yeah so and so it was

Beto was gonna and then Ted Cruz is in danger oh my god no one likes Ted Cruz oh there's this

pole that shows it neck and neck and in that now it might happen at some point there's no question

but I think Taloriko is clearly in that vein I think he's a shit lives version of what a Christian

I don't think there's any Christians who listen to him talk who's like you know what this guy's

on my team it's bizarre and it just shows I think in many ways how media centers out of touch

with red state America you know I think so and and you do see I mean you do see examples of the

Democrats you know sort of trying to course correct on this right there they're trying to run

veterans a little bit more they're trying to I think in Iowa they have a veteran running

for governor and in in main they have a veteran running with you know it's he's like I'm

this I'm a working man he's got his tattoos but he had to cover the one up because it was a little

two little two German or something and you know running against Susan Collins and who I think

Susan I think Susan will pull it out but you do see the Democrats I think trying to move back

and even I know this is going to sound weird but even Tim Walt was almost an example of this it

was very failed he was like he was sort of like the failed prototype like the failed laboratory

experiment that they were well we need to find someone who has our values but is also a white male

and knows how to shoot and can wear camo and let's try Tim Walt oh wait no sorry put put that back

in the basement you know don't don't ever let don't ever let anyone see Igor again you know he

was like the failed like deformed like like Victor Frankenstein's first attempt that didn't go so

well and I think they are going to try to go to that being these to call these the blue dog Democrats

by the way and they used to be sort of like like they're even used to be crazy enough they were pro

life pro gun Democrats in the party which sounds totally insane when you look at things now but

I I've I've said to them and I would say it again that if the Democrats move to the center

on economics if they move and say hey you know we're going to forget about wokeness and we're just

going to deliver for the people we're going to give you housing we're going to come in on grocery

prices we're going to come in on inflation look ram war gas prices that's nobody likes that we're

going to help with that too and come you know actually reclaim the mantle of anti war which they

certainly have an avenue towards right now that would probably be their most successful play and you

do see elements of mandami tries to do this in his rhetoric but I had the opportunity to sort of

get into get in his face in the White House not too long ago and and point out that I said well

what about the time that you said that you're going to focus your policies on white people

and that you were going to tax them more from others and and then he just he tries to you know

equivocate and he tries to play games and I think I think you see this sneering mask of just

anti white rage just falls immediately off and now you got the wife's you know social media

history is coming out which is also extremely anti white and it's it's still in that vein but

rhetorically there was something that he did that was very brilliant during one of the general

election debates of the New York mayoral race which last year and they said if you could be anywhere

in the world where would you be in some people or so I'd be it's heedy I think one guy actually

said I'll be in Israel and then and mandami said I wouldn't be anywhere I'd be right here in New

York City yep he needs answer brilliant answer like home run answer that was perfect answer so

you see democrats trying to realize that wait a minute this America first thing is really really

popular okay what if we take that over and we say we're the real America firsters and then come

in with left wing populism which inevitably is like these giant centralized government programs

and I'm not saying they're gonna work but they are popular when you're in situations of economic

of people and speaking to your blue dog democrats what people don't realize is Nancy Pelosi got

them all to walk the plank in 09 and 2010 because they're they're a handful but enough over a dozen

pro-life democrats and they're worried about obama care subsidizing abortion and she talked

them into it knowing and they knew they were gonna lose their seats in the midterms and they voted

for anyway I don't know if you saw Nancy Pelosi's retirement video she put up a seven-minute video

about why she's retiring from congress I watched the whole thing she does not mention the word

people of color or minorities once even when she's talking about AIDS which obviously disproportionately

at San Francisco she doesn't mention the word gay or LGBT once she does have how much she loves

veterans and a big section on I love St. Francis of a CC and whatever you say by Nancy Pelosi

she has delivered on a democratic agenda better than anyone in congress so if I were a Democrat I

would follow her lead because that has been success for them and that lead would have been just

exactly what you said I go to church I love the flag I support my veterans and that would

it worked in Virginia it would be a winning combination for them yeah and then they win and by

the way thank god spam burger is just a moderate because you could you imagine how crazy she would

be if she were radical right but thank god she told us she's a moderate so this these are all

moderate policies right right right folks head over to malice.locals.com with jack to questions

from sporting listeners jack we're running out of time what has been your favorite part of this

interview um I appreciated you letting me talk about you know sort of the personal side right

at the front right over there you know lately you know people want to talk about obviously Iran

and geopolitics and stuff but it's it was it was cool to have that conversation and just

kind of go feel like we went deep there a little bit you are welcome

hi I'm Julia Cowley a retired FBI profiler and host of the true crime podcast the consult real

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