Jackie O, Daddy Issues & Timothee Chalamet

0:00A list-snuff, production. Hi, I'm Hannah. And I'm Sarah. And this is Big Small Talk. This is the podcast where we try to cover the entirety of the new cycle from the series to the frivolous all in one place because loving pop culture doesn't mean you don't understand politics. Today, we're going to be talking about Kyle and Jackie O. Iran's new supreme leader, Timothy Chalamet, the Clinton's deposition on the Epstein Files and Sophia Franklin's tell-all book. But before we begin today's episode, we would like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we're recording today, the Gadigal people, and pay our respect to elders past and present. Before we get into the action news, Hannah, you have a very big personal headline this week. Is it where I'm going today? Yeah, that's fine. I was actually going to talk about the lovely high school girls that I met but yes, they listened to the pod. Because I thought that was a big headline for me yesterday too.

1:02That's so sweet. It was so sweet. I gave two talks to the girls high school in Brisbane yesterday morning. And the first session was year seven to 12 with parents. And then the second session was just like all of grades 10 to 12. And I was obviously bit nervous because sometimes I feel like a very millennial person pretending to be a gen Z, even though I'm a gen Z. And so I was wondering if none of them would know me. And actually, heaps of the mums knew me, which was awesome. But when I did the second session, I had some of the like 15 year old girls come up and say, oh, by the way, I've listened to every single episode of Big Small Talk. Wow. And I was like, and how are you handling a run right now? And they're like, I just appreciate you both so much. And I was like, we've got him. It's so nice. That is so nice. It was so like, again, I met a really bad person on my personal Instagram yesterday about I left feeling like I wasn't there to empower them. In fact, I walked away thinking they'd empowered me, these high school girls. They were like, I had Sarah. I kid you not at the first session. This tiny girl come up to me afterwards. And I said, she said, have you always felt this opinionated? Because I do too.

2:02And I'm going to run a lot of the prime minister about what I already have. And I said, how old are you? And she said, I'm 10. And when she could say 10, I'll give her a job. No, she's not meant to produce. It was a K to 12 school. And she'd come across from like grade five or six, especially to watch the talk because she's, I think, clearly a guy. I'm a two or 10 year old. And so they'd say, go on, come on, you can come over to this session. And so she'd come and she was just like, I'd like to write a letter of the prime minister about it. And she literally said to me, Sarah, do you find that your posts go better when anger is the first emotion? And I said, excuse me? Fucking yeah. Actually, like, you're swearing. I took everything not to say that right back to her. She is just manjalling the algorithm. No, the problems I have with it. I literally had this big chat to her about responding and emotion and all these things. And you know, what is the forefront of the media and what works and what doesn't? And she nodded and went, okay, can I get a photo? Then she planned. And it was just the best thing ever. And I just want to say to people listening, young people are fine.

3:02They are so good. Wow. Can I actually on that note? So my mum works at an old boy's school. Oh, I love this story. Now what you're saying? And she's befriended this like, at least like a year seven or year eight boy, they're just like, I think he always gets in trouble. And so he always needs to come to the office. And mum works in the office. She's in admin. She was a teacher. Now she's in admin there. And this boy loves podcasts. And was chatting to mum while waiting for something in the office. And mum was asking him what podcasts he listens to. And he said big small talk. But he didn't know. And he had no idea. And my mum goes, you know I'm Sarah's mum. And he goes, what? And the mum had to show him photos. This like small boy. And you know what's so funny? Mum was like, what do you think is a show? Yes, no I like the hosts. They keep saying that they're left. But I'd say they're centrist. I was like, sorry. But can I just say? I don't think that speaks to us. I think that speaks to the faint of boys.

4:03I don't think that's a positive about, that's an healthy masculinity right there. Because I also think the things that we say aren't radical extreme lackware position does being. I think it is very normal to be having this discussion in a young generation. Especially in a man. If you are from a boy school, a girl school, a co-ed school, bring us in. We would love. Let me, let me add it. Let me add it. I would love to speak to these kids. I just thought it was so energizing. That is so freaking cool. Okay, I have another. Yeah, please. Personal headline. And then I want you to talk about Oxford. Because I don't think we should be brushing over that. Just kind of trying to almost. So I was on my way into work. I told Hannah I'd be here in 30 minutes. But then I was answering stories on the Instagram story. It was 55. It was like, it took so long. And I forget how long it takes to put stories up. Why would the stories pause? Let's actually just sit with them. That sounds really hot. A moment of silence for what Sarah's been through to spotty washy.

5:03I've heard so much. I've heard Instagram stories on the walk here. One of the stories I put up was asking about merch. Because people were messaging and asked about merch. This is something we've been talking about for so long. Sarah's absolute pioneer in the merch space. But like, we're in the car. I've never, I have ideas. Whenever in the car. Sarah's like, just pause for a second. What about a compact mirror? Okay. So I had this thing that if we ever do merch, I would want it to be functional accessories. Like merch, but a little bit more unusual, right? You're less wasteful too if it's like. Yeah. I use it. It's in my bag. Yeah. On my bag. Like, it's an accessory that is constant, you know? Yeah. And originally, the first idea was an emotional support water bottle. Yeah. Because I feel like, like, given the new cycle, we all need that now more than ever. Yeah. But then I thought a compact mirror that says, I'm an intellectual. And then I thought. You're actually actually IP owning all of this. I might be owning all of this. And then I thought book boxes and then I thought bookmarks. It's an interesting debate there, right?

6:03Because you also want to be in a safer price range. And if we did a water bottle, we want it to be a really good. And it's kind of a secondary investment. Compact mirror or a key ring. A key chain. A key ring. Useful. Like charm. Yes. I think it was a few things. Jibits. That's kind of, I think, patented already. Like, we can't enter the crock space. Then I have the thought that if there's anyone, like, there are so many cool, small businesses, girly pops, if you're listening, and you would like to collab on something, I actually think that would be a way, a way of doing it. This is Sarah openly. I'm talking with you saying. We're openly taking requests and contacts right now. Please. We're opening the floor. I'm not a spotlight girlie. You are. You. You. Craft. Craft one. I've been crafting a bit recently. I've been doing quite a bit of craft. I produce a Helen sitting out there nodding in such a profuse way. Ever since that Valentine's Day really set me off on something. I've made artwork for the house. Just to be clear, if you're not sure of the Valentine's Day lore, get onto our Instagram. At Big Small Talk underscore pod, when we were heading back from Melbourne on Valentine's

7:04Day morning, I just took 10 photos of Sarah making her boyfriend Harry the muffin. You may know him as she made him a journal and she bought all these different types of fancy paper and she didn't have any scissors or glue and obviously it's hard to buy those things at an airport. But she made it happen on the flight. Thank God I was seated away from her. Who's I felt? Actually, a lot of people were like, what the fuck was the journal? Did it go well? Did it go well? Did it go well? Did it go well? Did it go well? Did it go well? Did it go well? Was there any good ideas in a week? There's also a good but also good one. But it can never keep track of them, and I thought this is a productive way then when I'm writing a my journal at night, he can write a book. Did he life there Speaking love it? That's a good Sarah. Tell me about Oxford quickly. It's the longest THE LONGEST personal hells in here. Charger, doesn't it? Since we came to Lidida's darf. It's like we got into the studio and went,網 what if we got it at 20 more minutes, see one at the start? Well, we just riffed about how it was everund to us. And I'm going to the UK literally straight after this record. Yeah. I didn't bring my bag in, which obviously panicked me for Tony. He was like, I'm so stressed about you and airports,

8:05but I'm ready to go. I've actually got an unpack and pack another bag. I'm upset with the suitcase I've packed. I'm kind of doing a day in the life right now, but I am going to the UK this afternoon to do a debate at Oxford on Thursday night. And don't worry. I'm gonna post about it. Oh, yeah. Take a moment. That is so not normal. No, it's not normal. I haven't taken a moment because I haven't prepared what I'm going to say at all. I'm planning to jump on the plane this afternoon. You freak me out. I am so avoided in moments like this. I go straight to type B energy. I have not prepared a single word. I bought a book to read that I hope will help inform my perspective. I haven't read a page. Don't plan to actually. I think I'm just going to do the half. It's only an eight minute talk that I have to give. So anyway, you're going to the UK for eight minutes. No, it's also going to be nice. I'm going to try and do a couple of different media appearances while I'm there. I have sent an email to Piers Morgan's show. I know everyone's got gasp, right? I think they emailed me back. They emailed me back and said, absolutely, come on the show. Just remind us a few days before. So I've sent the reminder, I'm now waiting. I'm not sure.

9:06I think it's important to go on those shows and engage and actually offer a different perspective. So I'm hoping to have the opportunity. But I will say, keep this is our secret. Deal listeners, because I'm not sure if I'm going to get it. But I am willing to share with you that I might get it because I did get an email back saying yes. You're also doing a day in the life. Because it's a big day for you. So we'll put that on on socials. Thanks. Kyle and Jackie O. are over. Hellhath, frozen over. You're not, you Shakespearean, you. That was beautiful. This was huge, huge news this week, especially for anyone that's ever worked in radio or in and around radio. So all the people I'm surrounded by, but not me personally. So you're deeply affected. It was one of those things that when the news broke, I was like, is this just crazy to have, like a subset of people that in this industry, that this is just like the bigger shake up ever. But no, I think the story is massive. I will say at the top here, I think having worked in radio, I do feel for the staffers. Right now, I feel for the people that work at that company,

10:09I think there would be a lot of uncertainty of what's going to happen to jobs. And I think anyone that works in media knows that that is genuinely terrifying 99% of the time. There are so many good people working in media and not enough jobs. And I think anyone in this industry as well, like that was what was keeping things afloat in lots of ways. So I do go into the story with like acknowledging that that is, that's a serious shake up for lots of people. But for if anyone needs the context, for over two decades now, Kyle and Jacqueo were Australia's most dominant and highest paid radio program. I think their peak was 1.7 million daily listeners. Wow, that's massive. That is massive. They're based in Sydney and they very famously signed a 200 million 10-year contract from 2023, which was the largest contract in Australia's radio history. That deal began last year and it was set to run until the end of 2034.

11:10Way after the Brisbane Olympics, just for context. Thank you. That's a long time. Also, you done. I enjoyed myself today, isn't that lovely? The two have been incredibly successful. But part of that success, I would say, is very much built on the fact that they are deeply controversial. Also, we need to talk about the fact that they have been fined countless times by Akma, but not only that. Take your late office, the regular. Yeah, regulator. Not only that though, news.com has also reported that Kyle gets fines every six day he takes once he's reached past 10 sick days within a year and he gets fined $28,000 a day, which means reportedly last year he got spacked with a $560,000 worth of sick day fines. That's a lot of sick days. That's, yeah, diva.

12:11Yeah, that was the word diva that's set with an accent. Diva. Also, sorry, but that is diabolical considering like, that is what, five times more than the average Australian wage. Yeah. They have also had a pretty rough year. And I think there's quite a few reasons. One is obviously they tried to make the move to Melbourne and that failed. There's so many discussion in like think pieces about why Kyle and Jacqueo didn't work in Melbourne. One of my favorites was just that, perhaps Melbourne is more culturally superior. Victoria is, I think, more progressive state than he's, I think, on the whole. Yeah, yeah. And there are kind of less, I think in Sydney, there are a lot of pockets in different suburbs that have just different cultural and political views on the whole. We're very pocketed and kind of clicky in that way too. Yeah. So even if we have a very zippy energy here, we do. And also, I think when they are culturally part of Sydney, where they've been here for so long, operating for so long that it's kind of very normalised

13:13in to sensitise to their presence and their superiority in the market. Do you know who put that really well? Someone who's been on most interviews I've seen about this is Craig Bruce. Oh, Craig is like your mentor. Craig is my mentor. Craig is very close. Craig is an incredible man in radio and podcasting. So Craig used to be ahead of content. He's kind of like a big dog in the radio scene now in podcasting as well. I've worked closely with Craig since about 22. But he's really interesting because he's actually the one that gave Kyle and Jackie go their big break. Scary. He found Kyle and Jackie. He also was instrumental in Hamish and Andy and all sorts of things. But he's been really interesting his commentary on, he has a podcast could game changes radio and it's all about like the Melbourne Wars and the industry. And something that I saw him say, and this is actually in the Guardian, he said, imagine the Kyle and Jackie O show is a party. This party was filled with people who are all in the same wavelength.

14:13The shots are happening, the inhibitions are down, the conversation is loose. And then the doors open, new crowd walks in and it's a bunch of sober people. That's what happened in Melbourne. That's a great way to put it because I actually, I hadn't read that so I'm glad to be on the same kind of page there. But it is just like you've got this new influx of people that have fresh eyes about it and aren't culturally attuned to like their rhetoric, no of them know what they're about and I just kind of have a distaste, right? And I think what the fuck is that? I think it's kind of expected to be like, oh, though, Melbourne will just touch them because they're inflammatory and they're big in Sydney. Actually, Melbourne doesn't want to be like Sydney. But there is also just like, it's layered, it's those three things. Melbourne, more culturally progressive, doesn't want Sydney things and three, isn't normalized, desensitized. Two, I think your effect. There was a lot of desensitization and normalization here in Sydney. The other thing you'd have to talk about is the witches. The witches campaign, I'm so glad you bring this up. So the mad fucking witches is a group that are not calling them that, that's what they call themselves.

15:16They have been campaigning against Kyle for years and they have a hashtag called Vile Kyle and it's pretty insane what they've been able to pull off. They put ARN in what I can only describe as like an impossible spot. So essentially the witches have a database of all the advertisers currently supporting Kyle and Jackie O's radio program nationally. And they are personally reaching out to those companies and also to their huge audience and calling on them to pull those advertisements or for people to boycott the companies that are choosing to advertise with them. The impact has been massive. I really think it speaks to the fact that we can influence and advocate against anything. All you need to do is follow the money. Also when you're just considering the fact that this duo was on a record breaking 10 year deal that was that big and they're struggling for advertisers. I want to also take a big, because I think we have to sort of remind ourselves of a few of the more controversial moments of Kyle and Jackie O.

16:18I think a lot of people jumped straight to 2009. That was when they were with today FM still and their show was taken off air after a mother rang in wanting to work things out with her 14 year old daughter and ask if she had experimented with sex and drugs. Kyle and Jackie O strapped this teenager to a lie detector test. It ended with the girl eventually breaking down, crying, saying that she was raped when she was 12. And Kyle's sound-alone response? Right, and that's the only experience you've had. Evil. The show has brewed broadcasting codes 12 times in the last year alone. It's described the content as vulgar, sexually explicit and deeply offensive. I think a recent example of this was a urination game where they played audio of female staff members urinating. And then played it as a guessing game on air, accompanied with very graphic commentary on anatomy and their anatomy.

17:18They also referred to the 2021 Paralympics as the Special Olympics, calling it horrific and mocking a vision impaired high jumper for landing on his back. Kyle was suspended after suggesting actress Magda Sabanski should go to a concentration camp to lose weight. Kyle labeled a journalist a fat slag in 2011 after she wrote a critical article about his show's ratings. They promised a woman they would bring her niece to Australia only to turn it into a game, whereas if she failed to choose the right door, her niece would instead be sent home. They gamified a segment where a woman was needing money for disability renovations like it goes on and on and on and put this over 27 years. Also, there are so many, I reckon in the last year we've seen multiple iterations of horrendous sex comments made from Sandalands, just like the average day. It's really interesting how's watching a clip from the current affair. This was an older current affair clip, interviewing Jackio, right? When asked about what about compromising your morals

18:19on this show, she kind of spoke to the fact that she was like, there was a machine around us and the audience wanted more. And so we gave more and more and more and we sort of lost our way because it was so normalized to us, which I think is a really interesting conversation because it reminded me of tire ranks. It was very much that like the audience wanted it so we gave it, but I found it really interesting that she was able to say, it got away from us, but then also say, we went on to more horrific stuff for the next couple of years. Yeah. Yeah, it is very much that I find one of the most interesting discussions that I'm going to get more into what's happened in the last couple of weeks, but the interesting kind of debate here is about Jackio as victim or perpetrator. Yeah, yeah. And that is the theme inherently feminist female discussion that go back and forth right now, which is really interesting to watch play out. I'll get into what actually, the straw that broke, the camel's back, what's actually happened. So it all was over a pretty explosive on air moment

19:20that was on February 20th, when Kyle lashed out at Jackie, causing her to not return to the show afterwards and then taking more than a week off following the incident, it was kind of about her doing a segment about horoscopes. I'm going to play the grab. No, I don't mean to be rude, but as I said, fascinating, but I don't think it should be at the detriment of everything else on the show, this relentless research into the tattoos of the... Why are you doing it then? I was literally just doing it then. Well, it's affecting other things. Like your fixation on this has made you almost unworkable. Oh, it's not that bad. I'm not talking. I'm talking. That's not fair. But it's actually true. You might have done that in five minutes, but you're off with the fairies with this. Help me wear her. No, no, no. Tell me where I've been off with the fairies during the show. I don't have to prove it. Tell him to lose me of doing something. Listen to the program. You'll hear yourself. No, just give me one example. Be aware of what's really going on.

20:23I'm a child. I totally am offended by you saying something like that. Bad, if you are, because that's the reality of what we're dealing with here. Oh, that is so unfair. I have been in here doing the segment totally fine. You've been given your head on that looking into the stars. Yeah, I did because I just told you I was going to do it. I heard all that, but it's too much. It's affecting everything else. You're too fixated on it. What? Tell me what it affected during the show. Every segment, every time you've spoken, you're off with the... You don't even know what's going on. I would never say things like that about you. You have to... Yeah, because I'm not doing that. Yeah, because you make out like you sit there like you're perfect. No, I'm not. That's what I do. And I would never bring them up and I would never say what people say. What do you mean what I don't do? So this video goes on. And the thing that most people are not capturing, I think in the discussion of what's happened here, is that he ends up saying something to the effect of like everyone on the office is talking about it, right? And this is one of the core pieces here, right?

21:23Where I want to talk about my feelings towards Jacqueo separately to what's actually happened in this particular conversation, because my initial read was when I saw this segment, he's having a go at something personally that matters to her. If she's into astrology, like, I'm not. I don't care if someone is. That's nice. They want to bring something from their personality into the work space. Go for it. I know a lot of people care about this stuff. Him having a crack at her publicly is just kind of demeaning a woman, right? Who cares about this? Because it's a very like fairies thing, superficial thing. It's a very kind of like influencer claim sort of vibe. But then when she actually goes back him quite strongly and says, like, give me a tangible example. I would never speak to you like this. And you are not perfect. So let's have a level playing field here, where you're blaming me and demeaning me. But that's not from a fair position. Let's talk through a tangible example of this. Great response. He has no capacity to actually provide evidence. And maybe he has it. It shouldn't have been done in that way. But you can see him unravel so fast and resort to genuine workplace bullying and humiliation tactics

22:26by saying, you're off with the fairies. It's unworkable. And everyone's talking about it. And that is classic behavior of trying to humiliate, embarrass, degrade someone to make them small. And feel like they don't even understand what's being said about them in order to kind of remove any fight they could have. I think what's really interesting about this as well is when this first happened. Isn't it sad that my knee-jerk reaction was, I think that's a PR stunt? Same. But everyone did that. The response was just because of their Melbourne failure, they're trying to drive ratings and relevance with this. Which they've done before. Like that's nothing new. Yeah, I think it was then on Tuesdays. This is March 3rd. Things then escalated again. And there was an announcement by IRN Media, which is the company behind Kiss of M, that revealed that Jackie had given notice and that she could no longer work with Kyle. And the network said she would cease presenting the show and the program itself would be taken off their effective immediately, also that Jackie's deal was to be terminated and that Kyle's contract potentially was in breach and at risk of being torn up as well.

23:26But then Jackie potentially was often an alternative show with the network apparently. There's a few different things floating around. But then March 6th on Friday, Jackie issued a statement, completely denying the way this narrative has been told. Claiming that she wanted to make it very clear that she did not quit and she did not resign. And that she couldn't say much more right now because the situation was being handled through legal channels. Do I feel for Jackie O? No. No. I don't. And can I just also add, one of the things that has frustrated me most is there are a lot of women coming out and saying, finally, Jackie O had enough. No. If Astrology's where you're personally drawing the line on Kyle Sandler, it's having a personal go at you fuck off. What I struggle with with this is it's like, it's almost like she said, well, I'm fine with the misogyny, homophobia and just blatant disrespect. But I'm going to draw the line at being mean to me.

24:26No, it is that. It's like, and again, she has every right to feel personally harmed by that and to leave the studio and to take time off. But if that is the only time, if that's the line in the sand morally, I can't quite get around that. I think part of the reason Jackie O and Kyle find so much success as a duo that I don't think it would work with anyone else, right? They wouldn't work by themselves very well, I think, is because they hold a mirror up to a lot of familiar patterns in society of misogynistic, harmful, bigoted man and woman who kind of conforms around him and goes, oh, Kyle, but never actually takes a stand. Yeah. And I think that we're all familiar with those dynamics. Profits. But we all are familiar with this. I think a lot of Australians buy into it because there's a leisure and an enjoyment, like it normalizes it for them. It softens it. And that's why I have a really particular problem with it as well. Yeah. I also think it's interesting, like, given the news that Jackie didn't quit to, like, talk about it in a business sense as well. I think the bottom line could be

25:26that ARN took an opportunity to find it out with them. Like, they had a $30 million drop in revenue in the last month. In a way, this show was becoming a liability. I don't think it's going to be easy for them. They're going to have to find new stars immediately. That is a very complicated, that is massive shoes to fill. But I wonder, given it's a 10-year deal, was this and out? But then, like I was reading in the Daily Telegraph, this morning, that sources have said that they want to, they're talking again and they want to do radio again. I'm really interested to see what happens here. I'm interested to see an if they do jump ship and go somewhere else as the madfucking witches will just follow. Absolutely, they will. A new Supreme Leader, the women's soccer team, and Lebanon becomes the second front of the US-Israeli War. Here's the latest in Iran. Okay, so the US-Israeli War is now into its second week and more than 1,200 Iranian civilians have been killed in the first nine days. I think that was up to about Sunday.

26:27This includes at least 194 children. I also have seen extensive reports of attacks specifically targeting health infrastructure. And you likely saw images footage of the strikes on oil depots in Iran, which filled the sky with this toxic acid rain and forced so many civilians to take cover. Like it was just horrendous imagery. I also want to report, and I think a lot of people would have seen Carolyn Levitt going off again at CNN reporter, Caitlin Collins, who questioned the president, the administration's response and kind of suppression of that respect to military service members in the US who have been killed in Iran. So far so I know, I think it's a seventh US military member has been killed. We know now. It was interesting. Carolyn Levitt lashed out at Caitlin Collins from CNN. Again, suggesting that the paper was again, like misinformation, terrible source, blah, blah, blah. Because Caitlin Collins was pointing to the fact like, do you not want people to report on these service

27:27people being killed? Because it looked about the only administration, essentially. Can I also just say while we're talking, Kristi Nome being caught? The memes on that went wild. Unbelievable. For people who don't know who Kristi Nome is. It's the director of Homeland Security. Yeah. And she's been rude. She was the one sort of behind ice, but also the camps. Yes. So she's been removed and she's got a replacement. It's, you know, it was absolutely fodder for the internet over the weekend, but I think it just speaks to anyone that goes against it on Trump in any way. And Kristi Nome is terrible, but she didn't kind of do everything he wanted to do or make him look good. So essentially, she was out. Now, oil prices have also risen to above $100, a barrel for the first time since 2022. And I also want to start by saying that Israel has intensified attacks on Lebanon. Lebanon's health ministry has reported 394 deaths and that was as of Sunday just gone. And the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel has displaced more than half a million people. So this is kind of this second frontier

28:27that's, you know, this is kind of this second frontier that we need to be speaking about as well. It's not just happening in Iran. This is broadly in the region, what things are looking right now, as it intensifies. Yeah. So 56-year-old Mojtaba Kamene has been confirmed as Iran's new Supreme Leader, succeeding his late father Ayatollah. He was fascinating for the people that toppled the monarch here to have... Thank you for saying that, because it is this immediate discussion at that point of good job, Western intervention. And I think we're going to talk about some of his experience and policies and kind of mindset around how this way effect the retaliation towards the US. But first I want to say that Mojtaba was selected by Iran's Assembly of Experts. Now, under the Constitution, this is a body made up of 88 members, senior clerics who choose elect the Supreme Leader. Now, in the conversation, there was this really incredible overview piece written by a professor of Islamic studies at Charleston University, Mehmet Ozal. And he wrote that the successor Kamani

29:29is a cleric who has spent most of his career outside of public office, but close to power. And he was often seen as a gatekeeper and power broker rather than having like a formal political portfolio. And a couple of key things that I read in this article, again, I just want to say, the conversation is producing some of the best work that you can be reading on Iran at the moment. So much of the researchers coming from there, so I just want to really shout them out. If you're not across subscribed reading from them, absolutely do. And basically, this article speaks to two key features of the new Supreme Leader's reputation. The first one is his close relationship with Iran's security establishment. They see him as a very much a secureist kind of politician, which means that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is kind of going to be a more prominent feature of his, under his rule, essentially. And the second is he is a, he exists in strong opposition to Western engagement. So this is an interesting kind of interplay

30:29to consider in the state of this war that, you know, in many ways, I've read a lot of expert pieces that suggest he is just as hardline, if not more hardline than his father. And this is really just like, have we replaced an 80-something-year-old with a 56-year-old son, essentially? And he has been linked to process. He has been linked to suppression. He has wielded large influence. Like, this is not a regime change. Is everything I'm reading? This is not a regime change. This is the direct upholding. This is the succession of that exact regime. And this is the concern that, you know, Donald Trump has come out this morning. I was watching his press conference. And given quite a few quotes, he said that most of the people they had in mind to take over from the Supreme Leader were dead. So that kind of speaks to the strategy of the US in their intervention. But I also read in the Guardian's live blog just from the last couple of hours that Trump said verbatim, the US is achieving major strides towards completing our military objective, obviously, for referring to Iran.

31:29And he said, some people could say they're pretty well complete. And I think this is because of the economic uncertainty that we're seeing, you know, petrol prices are severely increasing. There's lots of worry about what the future could look like economically for around the world. And you could see that really what Trump is vulnerable to is he does want to take action based on who the economic power is around him, what they're saying, how they're pressuring him, because that is his greatest concern always. Not the loss of civilian life. This is a person driven by money and power. He also claimed, you know, falsely, that the US engaged in strikes in Iran because the US would be attacked within a week is what he claimed. Again, I just want to assert here, there has been no evidence to support the claim that Iran was going to imminently strike Israel or the US. He described the war as a short term excursion. But then he also said that the US would not relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated. That's all just from the Guardian's live blog this morning that they were publishing as he was speaking, which is just terrifying because he has changed his position

32:31so frequently as to why they're engaging in war, why they're striking, and that narrative is consistently changing, providing no evidence, and consistently kind of just evading any genuine question or accountability. Again, we're not surprised, but we should continue to point it out. It also just infuriates me when we talk about how, obviously, when it gives space for the fact that who was the Supreme Leader, who died, was a terrible person, and Iranians have every right to be relieved by that. But exactly what we've said was a possibility, which is now he's just his son who's in charge and nothing's actually changed. The fact that Australia went in swinging about how great this was, is there going to be any backtracking now? And this is the concern. I also want to say, obviously, one of the major things happening throughout the world right now is these travel curves because of the airspace and the danger that's posed. We know that each year, I think there's been a lot of reporting that indicates about half a million Australians visit Europe during the summer months,

33:31and there's obviously all this cautioning happening about when people should travel, if people should book like what the next few months looks like. As of Friday, airspace over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain is closed. Again, I'm traveling to the UK this afternoon and I feel very fortunate and privileged that I booked a flight that was via Singapore with Qantas. But again, that is just, it's a really anxious time to be moving throughout the world right now. I just want to note that as well. I also want to reflect, take a moment to reflect on last week, the comments from the Spanish Prime Minister, because I think if you need some positivity in this horrendous environment, I think Pedro Sanchez, who is the Spanish Prime PM, he slammed Trump, and I think it's just worth taking a moment to read. So essentially what happened was on Tuesday last week, Trump threatened to end all trade with Spain because the Spanish Prime Minister refused to allow the US to use two joint bases in the South of Spain to target Iran.

34:32Trump said in response that Spain has been terrible, they're going to cut off all trade with Spain, we don't want anything to do with Spain, but direct quotes. And then the next day, Prime Minister Sanchez responded with the following. He said the country would not be complicit in something that is bad for the world, and that is also contrary to our values and interests, simply out of fear of reprisals from someone. He also said you can't respond to one illegality with another, because that's how humanity's great disasters begin. You can't play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions. And it's just he's the only EU leader to come out, overtly against this, and to deny the US use of a joint base. And I briefly want to link this back to two kind of more local stories and how this is affecting Australia too. The first is that the Prime Minister confirmed after defense refused to disclose, and there was a lot of back and forth denial and evasion, that Australian Navy personnel were on a US submarine that sank in Iranian warship.

35:32Wow. Yeah, it is massive, right? That's massive. It was massive. And so basically, there was a torpedo that hit the ship. You know, there were, there was a lot of people that died. And it was off the coast about 40 nautical miles off the coast of Sri Lanka, that this happened. I just think it's quite interesting, because when our Prime Minister was speaking about this Anthony Albanese said that the Australian personnel sat out the attack, the offensive. What, they sat in the corner of the submarine. This is so strange, right? He said they did not participate in offensive action against Iran. They're on the submarine. You don't go out, boys, I'm telling them what's out. That's also just not how history remembers it. No. My dad was in the Navy. He's probably listening to this, and he's probably going to give me feedback on this as well. I saw him on Sunday night, and he talked to me extensively about this and about like torpedoes and how they operate and what would be happening on the submarine and like I got all this information. But it's kind of interesting, because I also read again, she had up a conversation. They had a piece on naval warfare, because one of the things I wanted to know about this specific story is,

36:33was that attack lawful, right? Obviously, morally completely against the torpedoing of an Iranian warship off the coast of Sri Lanka. But how does this actually work in terms of international waters and the legalities around this? And what she explained in this piece, naval law sits as like under this umbrella of the law of armed conflict. But it's kind of outside of the legalities of the actual war in Iran itself. It doesn't really matter if it's determined that the US's war in Iran is unlawful. Naval warfare sits outside of that altogether, and essentially she has this paragraph that says that, yes, it is legal under that law. Again, I think in terms of the ethics of this, completely against it. But technically lawful. Technically lawful, which is interesting, because it also sits outside of and above the UN's law of the sea. So naval warfare kind of operates in its own bubble that isn't affected by whether on the ground, this is lawful or not for the US to be doing this. Can we also talk about the soccer team? Thank you. There's so many components to this story, and I just also want to say to people,

37:35I have so much more to say about what's happening on the ground in Iran in Lebanon. This is a really terrifying time. But I'm trying to access all these different components that we want to hear about, too. And so I want to finish this story with talking about the Iranian women's football team. They didn't sing their national anthem at their opening match against South Korea in the Asia Cup. That's been played in Australia right now. So if you aren't watching, highly recommend watching what the women's team who were playing. It's incredible. Essentially what happened is that when they refused to sing their national anthem, there were immediate calls for Australia to protect their safety, because obviously the main concern is that they will return to Iran and be punished again, potentially by death for refusing. Because Iranian state media also had hosts that came out and said they were wartime traitors for not singing the anthem. They subsequently did sing the anthem and perform like a salute during their other games. But during that one game that was enough, essentially, to warrant such a huge risk to their protection

38:35if they were to return. It's also really layered because part of Iran's history was when this new government came in, they changed everything. They changed the flag. They changed the anthem. And so for a lot of Iranians, they don't identify with that anthem as theirs. Yeah. History Channel always comes in. Literally, thank you, Sarah. That's like, I... Like, completely, that is exactly it. Now, as I was reading this morning, five members of the team have been granted humanitarian visas by immigration minister Tony Burke. And the police have moved the women to a safe location. Also, the other team members have been told they are welcome to remain in Australia. So that is a positive end to that act of protest by the team. And I'm really glad that that has happened or that they have been guaranteed that. But it's just, obviously, terrifying times. Timothy Shalamay has picked a fight with the wrong people

39:37and his odds of winning an Oscar are suffering as a consequence. I don't know what's happened. You don't know this? No. What? This has been, like, I think every outlet ever is talking about this. Well, I'm pretty sure SNL will definitely do something on this. I think the chief media is not talking about it because I have no idea. This is the headline of the week. To the point that even I'm surprised how much coverage this is getting. So two weeks ago, Timothy was obviously a front runner for the Oscars, which is March 16th, next Monday. Now, it's not looking so good. The reason is people are up in arms because of a rolling stone interview that was Timothy and Matthew McConaughey in conversation with each other. It was in Austin, Texas at the town hall. It was produced by Variety and CNN. And it was a conversation talking about their craft. Here is the clip that is going viral. People and I've done it myself. They want to talk to them. Like, hey, we get to keep movie theaters alive. You know, we got to keep this genre alive.

40:38And another part of me feels like if people want to see it, like Barbie, like Oppenheimer, they're going to go see it and go out of their way to be loud and proud about it. And I don't want to be working in ballet or opera or, you know, things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive, even though, like, no one cares about this anymore. All respect to the ballet and opera people I think. I just lost 14 cents in viewership. But, damn, I just took shots for no reason. I was so shot at here, would you say? Yeah, yeah. So. I'm sorry. I get your live reaction now. Oh, obviously the opera in ballet. This is the thing, right? When someone does something like that, he meant it candidly to get a laugh from the audience. You know what this reminds me of? When I was talking about Anthony Albanese, you last speak with the difficult comments, right? It's sometimes like when you're playing to the immediate audience's laugh in front of you, you forget the context in which this is going to be taken out of. Yeah. And it might be that in the moment in the present, it's still offensive, but you're about to get a billion views on this where people are going to come out of the woodwork to say, like, why was that necessary?

41:38Which I completely agree with. People did, like London's Royal Ballet and Opera said every night at the Royal Opera House, thousands of people gather for ballet and opera for the music, for the storytelling, for the sheer magic of live performance. If you'd like to reconsider Timothy, our doors are open. The New York Ballet, dancer, Megan Fairchild said, Timmy, I didn't realize you were a world-class dancer and opera singer, but I simply chose not to pursue it because acting is more popular. Ballet and opera are not niche hobbies. People opt out of the fame. Good luck in the Oscar race. Artists supporting artists matter. None of these parts are easy. And there's no need to put ballet or opera down along the way. Can I just add, because I was thinking more about the context of this being in Austin, Texas, which I think speaks to the crowd and the nature of it, right? But I think it also kind of feels sour, given a lot of his recent coverages, like the seriousness of the method acting and how it's like they take themselves a bit too seriously, but then demean other art forms. And also my serious. There's so much in it. Okay, hold on, before I get into that though, I also want to play something I saw this morning, Doja Cat.

42:39Oh, she responded? Of course. We have a full statement of Doja Cat. Hey, by the way, opera is 400 years old. Ballet is 500 years old. Somebody named Timothy Chilamon had the nerve. Big guy, by the way. Had the nerve to say on camera, then nobody cares about it. I'm sure you can walk into an opera theater right now. Seats will be filled out. And nobody's saying a word as the performance is going, because everybody has that much respect for it. There is an etiquette around opera. There is etiquette around ballet. And people go there every day to the dance studio. Dancers show up 8am, 6am, whatever the fuck. They show up and they break and they bleed every single day. Just because they have respect for it. They love it. They love what they do. It doesn't matter if the industry is having a tough time at any time,

43:41which a lot of industries have a tough time. Your industry has a tough time. My industry has a tough time. Doesn't mean people don't care about it. I will say, when I was saying at the top part of me was somewhat surprised by how much coverage this is getting. I think it's because when I first listened to it, I did think I could somewhere see what he was trying to get out in the clunkyest way possible. And I think that is because in history, when we look at history, ballet and opera was once our main source of entertainment. Like there were some of the leading sources of entertainment. And they were popular to the masses. And they were accessible to the masses. They now don't have that same accessibility. And every day Joe is not going to go to the ballet and opera and be across it in the way that we know the most famous ballerina in the world right now. And I think what he was saying is comparing that the art of moviemaking in cinema could slip away from the mainstream.

44:41Cinema could become this slightly more niching imperative to where it wants used to be. And it's like a talking about the dying of cinema. The way he said that, if that, and that is if that was what he was trying to say, was really bad. I want to pause there because I think what you've done a really good job there is actually provide a really fair response to what he has said. You've kind of expensive. You looked at him and like, this is the point he intended and this is why it's kind of fucked up, right? Yeah. I think that's so fair. I also think after just hearing it and going, I can immediately pinpoint what the problem is. And the context he said it in, which is like, again, it's so important to come back to. He said it to a crowd live with McConaughey in Texas. But you know what? The other thing I want to say right, because what you were, when we were talking about the kind of elitism of the opera and the ballet right, an expensive ballerina. It's almost like he was trying to play in to a hierarchical kind of middle class joke by saying like, they're so expensive and they're not for us sort of thing. And that's its niche. And he was kind of trying to other himself from it in a class joke way it feels.

45:42But I actually think there's also an untouched element there where he's playing into a masculine audience because opera and ballet feel like more feminine things. Oh, it feels, I think that's why this is getting so much conversation because it does feel layered. And what I find interesting is that this is not the first time he said it. I think it's just getting more attention now because it's in the really tight Oscar race. And he's in the moment talking extensively about how seriously he wants to be taken. But actually listen to this. I love movies. I love acting. I love going to movies. I was kind of getting scared when I was younger that maybe he was becoming like opera or something like an outdated art form or something. I was like, no, what was me think? But you start working on movies. You start acting and pursuing your thing. And like, I started to get the sense maybe it was like opera or ballet or something. Like this is that from two examples. That's the Graham Norton show. And that's a press conference Q&A before his movie The King when that came out. Thank you to that T-Toggle who put together that compilation.

46:43Thank you so much for the investment. Thank you. But I also think a big part of this conversation. He is very much across the ballet and what's involved in the ballet because the women in his family are all ballerinas. His grandmother, his mom and his sister were all in the New York City Ballet. Which is huge. That is so hot. Like they are professional ballet. So I do think there is something kind of fucking crazy about of all the examples you've chosen to give. You've chosen to shed on your own mom and sister and grandma's profession. Why? It's just really interesting. There's something a little bit. Like I just, maybe he feels like he knows it so well that he's able to speak to it because of his family. But it does feel weird to go after their profession. Also, I do have to think of the context. And this went really under the radar because it happens sort of as we were coming back from the break and everything was so hectic in the new cycle.

47:44But there was an interview with Timothy Chalamet where he spoke extensively about his concern about child-free women. Did you see this? No. Yes, so pretty much he spoke about how he didn't understand why women wouldn't all want to give birth because it's the most miraculous thing. And it's like devastating to him. Women all need to have children ASAP. It's a relevant example. Shortening it there. But I do think that's fascinating. Also, I do. And I know people have pointed this out. But there is obviously an irony about him going on an Oscar campaign about wanting to be one of the greats, shitting on ballet and opera for being dying art forms while promoting his movie about ping pong. I'm just sorry. You know what, you know what? I think this feels like to me. And maybe it's the wrong read. But I think that I've seen him as the good guy for a long time. Like he's like, and to me it's like that tiny sweet innocent boy that I watched. And like he was in interstellar. He was in all these movies that I watched like 10 years ago. And I've been like, Timmy, you know.

48:44I miss him when he was French. And I think that's funny. He's still French. I like his relationship with Kylie. Like I think he seems like such a good boy. Like you want to squish him, right? I want to squish him, right? You know, I feel like this is the Kylie cut. This is the Jenna, the Kardashian cut. But can I also say why are women always responsible for a man's behaviour? Like what the fuck is that comment actually? The assumption and the direct thread that a man's downfall and horrible statements and behaviour must be tied to his current female partner is so fucked up. But it's also just the sweet chup everyone loved them two seconds ago. Yes, but what I'm saying is like, I think the thing for Timothy Shalamay right now is I actually really admired his speech about one of his be one of the greats be one of the greats, because I thought it was such a beautiful thing to be openly aspirational and vulnerable by saying something like that. And in the aftermath of that, there's just been this series of comments that almost says, you've tried to adopt this kind of masculine ideal that you think you need to be, and that's actually one of the reasons that will prevent you. But also, he created a fan base and was skyrocketed into being an a-list actor because of films

49:47like Lady Bird and Little Women. And the fact that he was the ultimate soft boy loved by women said, like, that's why I think some of these, some of this marketing recently in comments seems weird in this context, because we're like, Timothy, where's your extra E? Like, that's true. That's how do you feel about that? No, that's funny, though. It's like, wait, what? Bill and Hillary Clinton have publicly testified in closed-door, separate Epstein deposition. Okay. Love seeing some of the clips from this, we'll say. Sometimes I forget, and then I'm very quickly reminded when I see something I go, and Hillary was a lawyer. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's good. Yeah, she's, um, she's top performer under questioning. Yeah. So these sessions were from late February, as we said in the pot a few weeks ago, they were coming up towards end of the month, and they were filmed, but only released to the public in the days after. So I think much second and third was kind of when we saw them. Now CBS News reported that

50:50Bill Clinton's testimony runs for about four hours and 33 minutes. Hillary's four hours and 35. They were pre-bang on with the same length. The recording show, both Hillary and Bill, being kind of probed by members of Congress from both major parties. And during the depositions, they really looked at specific questions of their past connections, Jeffrey Epstein, and Glenn Maxwell. I just want to give a shout out at the top here. Before we get into the details of these depositions, I want to remind people that they can listen to our big talk on Monica Lewinsky, because I think that also lays the foundations for Bill Clinton's presidency and the spectrum of accusations he faced from women saying he sexually harassed them to sexually assaulted them, and that that happened throughout the span of his career, and that Hillary stood by him throughout the Monica Lewinsky kind of saga. I'm going to call it a saga. It's much more than that. But I think what we're seeing in these depositions is very reflective of their marriage in terms of a woman who has been compliant and tolerated a man's alleged poor

51:57behavior, but also has been held responsible arguably more so than him, where I don't have any defense for Hillary Clinton. But I also find it ironic to see her face the questioning of her husband's behavior to that extent as well. Yeah. Bill Clinton was subpoenaed to testify after appearing in the first release of Epstein documents last year. We've all seen the photos. There are images of the former president in a hot tub with women whose faces are redacted again. I want to say when I say women, I should just say person, because I don't know if they're a child or an adult. We just do not have that knowledge. And so we know that he has appeared throughout the files that he has been pictured many times at Jeffrey Epstein and Galaine Maxwell. Also, Galaine Maxwell attended Bill and Hillary Clinton's daughter Chelsea's wedding. Hillary Clinton's deposition day went first and Bill Clinton testified the following day before the House committee. And because Republicans hold the majority, they led the first round of questioning. Democrats then followed with members from both parties alternating until the depositions concluded. When we look at some of the key moments from Bill Clinton's testimony,

53:00he said that the first time that he had learned of Epstein's crimes is 2008 when Epstein was prosecuted. When did you first learn of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes? I think in 2008 when he was prosecuted, there was nothing that I saw when I was around him. It made me realize he was trafficking women. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse or assault young women or girls? No. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein received massages from young women or girls? Nothing I recall. Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you? No. Did you ever have any sexual contact with young women or girls in the presence of Epstein or Maxwell? No. No. Did you ever have sexual contact with any young woman or girl introduced to you by Epstein or Maxwell? No. Mr. President with the benefit of hindsight where there

54:05things you witnessed that could have suggested that Epstein was trafficking sexually abusing young women and girls. I do not believe so. I just want to really clarify here that Bill Clinton was also an attorney general, I believe, of Arkansas and the governor. He went to law school just like Hillary. He is also someone who, again, he has faced deposition like this before. He has faced hearings like this. He has lied under oath before. And I think one of the things to really focusing on here is his movements from things like no to not that I recall. And he also says things like I never saw anything that I knew was illegal. Like using the language of like it's not blatantly no. I can't be held for that because I was not aware. It's so tough to listen to things like that because a, parts of that you're thinking you're asking us to deny what we're seeing with our own eyes in photos and evidence that is coming out on mass. But also the way you were shutting things

55:11down and not taking even like it's like, and I don't know, maybe if he gave it, gave an inch, they'd run with a mile, whatever it is. And maybe he is just protecting himself to the absolute eighth degree. But for anyone that is a victim listening to that, what a slap in the face. Yeah, it is. And you know what was interesting is that a couple of weeks ago before these deposition was set to take place. I know that we said on the podcast, I think we said on the podcast. And I saw so much material online that said like, I hope like there was some sliver of hope for me. Bill Clinton is very old. Just say it all. I would almost have more for someone who just went, yes, this is everything I saw. It was all wrong because I believe Bill Clinton knows so much. Like I personally believe that, right? And I think that it's so frustrating to watch someone deny to protect themselves, both of them, because I think that they have so much knowledge. You know, take the opportunity and actually hold people like Donald Trump liable here if you know anything. And it's it's just, you know, even he was questioned about that photo of him receiving what appeared to be a massage from a person in the hot tub. And you know, he responded by

56:15saying, my neck had spasms and they offered to help me and I let them. It's just such a tough watch. Now I want to talk about Hillary. So Hillary, former Secretary of State, former presidential candidate for the Democratic Party was the first lady for two terms in the White House during her husband, Bill Clinton's presidency. She said to CBS, sorry, sorry, if we're just reading from CBS's reporting, Hillary Clinton told the committee, she did not recall ever meeting Epstein, but noted that in preparation for the testimony, she was made aware that he had attended an event at the White House. She said she knew nothing about him. And she responded to questioning about Bill Clinton traveling on Epstein's plane as unfortunate. Again, I expect her to be asked if she attended flights. I do think she shouldn't be asked about what she thinks. And I know it's just this committee trying to probe her for information about her husband's activity. It is. And it's also then I suppose that if Bill was then to say something contrary to that, they can be like, well, you're absolutely right. So I completely get it. Again, Hillary Clinton is

57:20she was a very successful attorney. She's a very successful lawyer. So she did very, you know, it was interesting though, she was very reserved and very good at withdrawing from giving any information about the lane Maxwell about Jeffrey Epstein. And again, like when she was asked about Maxwell being depicted at her daughter Chelsea's wedding, she said Maxwell was simply invited as a guest plus one. So there's like a lot of, you know, a vision of any sort of reference or knowledge or friendship there. And I just want to play this grab from Hillary Clinton kind of ending her deposition after she discovers that a politician, I believe it's a representative Lauren Boebert has leaked a photo of Hillary in the deposition room. I have another photos that are being released of the secretary as she is testifying from inside this room. Can you please advise me as to whether or not that's permissible and consistent with the rules, particularly given that we have asked for public hearing if there are photos that are being released of the secretary as she

58:22is testifying. Can you please explain how I've done with this? If you guys are doing that, I am done. You can hold me in contempt from now until the cows come home. This is just typical behavior. You would go up to record. Oh, for heaven's sake. So I would like to understand how that permissible for the hearing would. It doesn't matter. We all are abiding by the same rules. I will take that down. Yeah. Well, I would like to take a break at this moment. I'd like to have time for now. I mean, I think it's interesting given that they did want a public hearing, right? Obviously, the videos have been publicized, but I think it's interesting because it's also Hillary knowing she could leave at that point. I would suggest because there's been a breach. So that's kind of the current side of play that we will keep you updated on this because obviously there is just so much concern about what's happening to these files and if further action is being taken. Sophia Franklin, half of the original call her Daddy podcast has announced she'll be releasing a tell-all book called Daddy Issues. We'll say 10 out of 10 for the title of that book. That's hilarious. That's genius. Now, I want to talk about this because A, I think

59:26working and podcasting and us. I guess we know a really spoken about this much, but we had to go through our own battles to get IP back and it's so funny whenever we've shared glimpses of just like, we have a podcast and we had to get the IP back and we're a duo and blah, blah, blah. Everyone's like, wow, that's so cool. Daddy. I guess no, it's not. It's really not. Really not. When you look at it though, there's was so insane. I think it's a point of fascination for people because A, anyone who's interested in like working relationships was a fan of the show or even just the psychology of a friendship breakdown like this. Those who don't know Alex Cooper and Sophia Franklin, the duo hosts of Call Her Daddy. They were best mates. They were college roommates. The show was then quickly acquired by Bastel Sports, where it became an overnight success. As we know, they were worth a fortune. The show was accounting for so many salaries at the Bastel office. When it came to renegotiating their contract, really fought for their worth. And they publicly had it out with Bastel Sports and its founder, Dave Portnoy. They refused to record more episodes

1:00:29until they could improve their contracts. And it was a complete standoff. Alex then eventually came to the table to negotiate and Sophia did not. And so Alex continued the podcast as the sole host, which of course, as we know, she then left the Spotify on a $60 million deal. And then after that left for another $125 million deal with Sirius XM in 2024. But from Sophia's perspective, she had been under the impression that her and Alex were on the same page about not wanting to waver on certain elements of their new contract. Essentially, Bastel said that they could have their IP back if they stayed one more year. And that's what Alex wanted. But Sophia had other issues that she was pissed about and standing strong on. Like the fact that each co-host initially only received like 2.5% of merchandise sales, which is insanely low, which is insanely low, considering that like one hoodie of theirs earned over $1 million in total sales. Sophia then went off and eventually made her own podcast called Sophia with an F.

1:01:31Where she talks like, I think it's like pop culture, life advice. But she's remained very selective about what she's discussed from that 2020 split. And I remember and I remember always thinking whenever I've seen, call her daddy, get another huge guest or do something incredible or whatever it is, watch a woman in a show go really strength strength and credit there. Every time I would see it, I would think God, it would suck to be so fit. Like I know that's awful to say, but you would just like, wow, that would be a really, really tough watch. And I think a lot of people like, couldn't you have another co-host? Do you think so that she might have been paid out to be silent on certain elements? And that's why she doesn't speak about it? I assumed there was an NDA in place. But now I tell all. Yeah. So she's told the Hollywood Reporter. My story has been one told for me. And if you asked me to write this book five years ago, you would have gotten a different story. Fearful, vengeful, insecure, wounded with something to prove. I couldn't live truthfully until I told it in my own words on my own terms. And the most radically honest way I know how. I have to say, I'm fascinated by this. I'm so interested. I think

1:02:36the reason I also wanted to talk about this story, though, is because I can see there are two sides that are going to be like this whole debate is going to come back up again when this book comes out. And I think there's two things here. One is Alex. He got to give her credit as the business woman she is and what she's built with, call her daddy and the fact that she was the one doing the hard yards behind the show. But a lot of people are pointing out that the phrases and the storytelling and a lot of the, I guess iconic moments, what made the show as big as it was, was Sophia's humor, her creativity. Yeah. I do find it's a sticking point that unwell was Sophia's phrase. Interesting. I didn't know this. And to sort of out someone from the company, but then continue to use the phrase that was hers and build a network named after it. There's something to be said for like, Alex hasn't got over it. Like, that's a weird thing to do. It's not that that has always that weird with me. And I do think like, I don't know, maybe

1:03:40this is like the producer conversation from me. Sometimes people are just really good talent. Sophia was really good talent. I think producers and I think edit, like I think there's so much more value that should be given to that. But I do think good talent's good talent. I also think people are gearing up to turn on Alex Cooper, because it feels eerily inevitable that people will do that. Yeah. I was going to say people love to build, build, build, build, tall poppy syndrome. And I don't think it's just Australia. And then when there is an opportunity to destroy someone and say, like, I always knew X, Y and Zed, it's a floodgates argument, people suddenly go like, okay, like, no, I can destroy Alex because she rose too far. Yeah. Basically, she was too shiny and we had to do something about it. I really do think that's what's going to happen. I would not be surprised if that happens in the next few months. It's like people are really waiting for a got you moment. Because we also, like, I'm interested to see what his book says that hasn't been said before. But also, we already know. So when I, when I speak to this like floodgates, like destroying Alex, it's kind of like, but everyone already knew this had happened and continued on saying, like, yes, she's a great businesswoman, rise, rise, rise, rise. So I'm not sure what could be revealed

1:04:43here that would fundamentally change what we already know has happened. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are going to start coming for Alex's interview styling. We're already seeing that. Yeah, we are. I think people fundamentally misunderstand the point of call her, Daniel, especially because it's come from the original show and this is something completely different. She would not get those guests if it wasn't for that particular interview style she's doing. No, this is a great argument that you constantly make. Not every interview and this obviously speaks a bit of a wound about how we were spoken about our interview with Albanese last year. Oh, yeah. But I kind of go like, there's this unfair application of like, well, it wasn't a Sarah Ferguson on 730 style interview. And I go, there's only her that does interviews like that. Like the point of that you Sarah Ferguson, like the combo of our names. Oh, that's hilarious. But it is that thing of like, there's always this referential point about what the perfect or ideal interview style is. But the point of an interview is it's the person that's able to extract different information in different contexts. Yeah. I also think that we're just going to constantly see again and again, again, I think we see this across every woman in media, the accusation of being a mean girl.

1:05:48I saw that way more with Alex Cooper when she clearly had the falling out with Alex Earl. Yes. And there's a lot of people like pitting them against each other. I'm desperate. I would love to be the fly on the wall to know what happened there. Like desperately. Also, can I speak completely upfront? Of course, if you're listening to this segment and thinking like, this all sounds very like it feels personal because we are podcasters. We exist in this industry. And so when we speak about it, there are going to be places where we're coming from our own experience and awareness of like, what it feels like as well to be on the receiving end of these kind of attacks. Because we have experienced that in different contexts, when you feel like you've done a segment in a certain way that you agree with, sometimes it opens a floodgates argument for people to say, well, I never liked X, Y and Z about big small talk. And you go, it's normally the debate we're having. This just feels like an opportune moment for people to suddenly expose every thought they've ever had because suddenly they feel welcome to do so there's an invitation to step into the ring almost. And what I think is interesting is like the things that will continually come up is this like open-ended feedback on

1:06:49everything about us personally or everything about any woman in the industry personally. There's always going to be these different feedback loops. And it is really hard to sit and assess like what is good feedback and what is unfair criticism. I think Alex Cooper as the biggest female podcaster in the world is going to almost be the most fascinating case study on exactly that. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about like two comments. You're talking about millions every day. And like that, I can't even imagine what that's like. I can't. Yeah, I can't. But of course, there's like a personal context here where we speak to it with a different lens from that experience too. Okay, we are now at the Q&A for this week. If you wanted to send us a message you can do over on Big Small Talk underscore pod. But we've had actually a bunch of questions this week coming through our inbox about don't fest. So we thought we would just speak to that again because there's so many different questions coming in about what the day looks like, what it's going to involve, like what kind of show we're going to be doing. Yeah, there's a few really valid questions in that.

1:07:54And it's crazy because this is the first time anything like this has been done. A little insight on the day. I think it opens at like 10 a.m. 10 30 a.m. the first shows at like 11 a.m. or something like that. Don't hold us to that. I think they're coming out with a relationship. But we know it's a morning Sunday day event primarily. Yeah, it's a it's a daytime activity, which is quite lovely. I also know they've just added an entire second lineup for like a side stage, secondary stage with like five or six other podcasts, which is going to be huge. But essentially one of the exciting parts that we wanted to talk about of the show that we're going to have it don't best again. It's not a live podcast recording. It's not going to be in our feed. It's a completely different format. But one of the elements we are really excited about is we're going to have someone from the audience come up as our third chair for part of the segment. It'll be on a conversation you'll know about. We'll invite an audience member to kind of pitch themselves to come up with us. But we're really excited if there are people coming by themselves or coming with friends. If you've always wanted to sit with us and weigh in on our debates, you could be that person. Absolutely,

1:08:55also, and you haven't agreed to this yet. But I think we ended with like a Ted talk style moment from you. Oh, okay. Thank you for that. That's lovely. I would love to do that. No, I love. I love my little Ted talk moments. You know, I love to do that in a show. It's my favorite thing to do. I just want to see you in a blazer and with a clicker. I'm not bringing the blazer. I'm going to look hot. Hey, Jesus can be really hot. Just five minutes at the end. Yeah, and like a fedora. Like something ridiculous. Like, I don't know why I'd be a fedora. I've never worn one before. I don't know why I said that. Keep it out. I love the way I fedora. Okay. So we're going to bring a special pair of glasses, a fedora and a blazer for me to add to my very sexy chic outfit. I might make you a podium. I might make Meatball Tony do meat and greens for no reason. Let's just like throw things around. Don't first. Thank you so much again for listening this week. Sarah actually just asked me if we have an outro. That's how Gully Pop we're being today. If you could tap the bell, follow us on whatever

1:09:57podcast platform you listen on. Follow us on Instagram at Big Small Talk underscore pod. Leave a review. It all helps get a ticket. Don't vest on the 29th of March in Sydney. See you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.