Jailed for Weed: How a Single Mom Became a Drug Dealer to Support Her Son

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1:01And finally, illuminate is your vitamin C glow oil. It absorbs beautifully, doesn't feel greasy, and gives my skin that healthy, luminous finish you've been seeing. What I really love is that these aren't for random products. St. Joe is designed for them to work together as one simple, consistent routine. It's everything your skin needs and nothing it doesn't. Of course, if you've recently had a procedure, always check with your own surgeon before introducing any new skin care. And if you haven't had a procedure, what are you waiting for? Go to shopstintjo.com and use the code GLOW for 15% off. That's shopstintjo.com and use code GLOW at checkout. In 2009, Carly Kramer was a struggling single mom in Scottsdale, trying to figure out how to pay her bills. Then somebody told her, you can make money delivering weed. You mean you're just like delivering weed all day? I wouldn't do that. So Carly took essentially everything she had flew to Northern California and made her first purchase.

2:04It cost me $6600. It was everything I had and it gave me six pounds of weed. And somehow it worked. I brought home $150 and I was like, okay, I can do this. One delivery became repeat customers. Repeat customers became other delivery services. And the little side hustle started growing into something much bigger. I started selling weed to the other people in my community who had delivery services. At some point, you're ultimately moving thousands of pounds of marijuana. My son went in my closet to get something he was mom. There's an uncomfortable amount of weed in your closet. But Carly had always been waiting for that moment when it would catch up with her. The thing I was most paranoid about was they were gonna arrest me and they were gonna put me in the news. You were driving with 100 pounds of marijuana and $22,000 in cash. Yes. But when Carly talks about what she regrets today, it isn't really about the weed. I don't really have guilt for what I did because it's a weed and it wasn't hurting anybody. But I have tons of guilt when it comes to my son.

3:04I put my son through a lot of stuff and a lot of worries. Then something happened Carly never expected. She says going to jail became one of the most important experiences of her life. It was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. It opened my eyes to what we do to people. They don't need help. When she got out, Carly couldn't forget the people she left behind. So what started as an idea for a documentary turned into a new mission, telling the stories of people still sitting in prison for marijuana. There's people doing hard time, even life sentences for weed. Some of those people doing life sentences are first time offenders. One man Carly advocates for was Harker Coleman, who was 24 years old. He was sentenced to 60 years. He has spent the whole entire time at a federal penitentiary where people are dying and being stabbed weekly. And while marijuana laws have changed across America, Carly says people like Parker are still waiting for the system to change with them. From the moment I walked out of that jail, like, I've never really been the same.

4:07This is the story about how a single mom became a weed dealer and how jail changed her life. And why she now spends it fighting for the people who have been jailed for weed. Carly, I'm so excited that you're here today on Misunderstood. Thank you for joining me. Rachel, thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here. So Carly paint the picture for us of 2009. In 2009, I was living in Scottsdale, Arizona, which is where I'm born and raised and still live to this day. I was a single mom. I had a nine year old son. And I did not have any help from his dad. And I was struggling and I was young. I had my son when I was 18 years old. And I was just, I would say I was just struggling. But my son, he was healthy.

5:09He was a good kid. It didn't cause me problems. So in 2009, he was 12 years old, right? Am I getting the date? In 2009, he was nine because he was born in 2000. Okay, so he was nine years old and you were single mother. Had you always been a single mother? Yes. Okay, so you had really raised? Yes, I mean, yeah, yeah, for the most, yes. And you were living in suburban Phoenix. Phoenix. Okay, yes, in Phoenix. In Scottsdale, Arizona. And tell me what kind of jobs you had? I was at that time, I had just been laid off work. I was a paralegal and I was working at a law firm that did personal injury. And I had just kind of been laid off. And I was just doing odd things. I was bartending. I was serving. I had different like little side hustles like eBay, whatever I could do just to get my bills paid. Right.

6:10Right. I was just doing him. So who was watching him? I mean, I, listen, I was a single mom from when my daughter was, I guess, like one and a half until I just got married again. So I just got remarried and she's basically 14. So I was a single mom for most of my life. And you know, that is hard. That is hard supporting yourself, supporting your kid, trying to get your kid through school. So like, who would help you when you were having all these odd jobs and different hours? So I have very supportive parents. I am up until recently my parents lived less than a mile from me. Oh wow. So like, I was a single mom, but there are single moms that have it, it had it way worse than me if I'm being real honest. Like I had a lot of family support. In fact, I would not have been in those early years. If I didn't have the type of family support I had, I would, there's just no way. Right. Like looking back at it. So in that, in the, as far as like babysitting or like picking up from school, those types

7:16of things, I had a lot of family support. Yeah. Oh, that's great. But financially, it was, you know, you were really struggling and trying to figure out what you were going to do to make a living to support you and your son. Right. Yeah. That was different. That was on me. And you know what? It was, it was hard. So I will say now when I, I often think when I'm at the grocery store and stuff, like, I never could have done what I did then. I mean, it's getting hard. And when I look at single moms now, I'm like, oh, my, it's even harder. Yeah. Like, you know, but it was so, it was hard. And you know, there, I didn't have any financial support from his dad. I've never, I never received child support. And I couldn't count on him. Like if my son was sick, you know, can you come pick him up from school? Nothing like that. He showed up here and there, but there really was no support there. Yeah. So now I'm curious, what was your relationship with weed up until this point?

8:18Are you somebody that smoked it? No. No. Okay. In fact, like I, I do eat gummies at night, even now, but I, and you know, I just had this thyroid thing. And while I was going through that, I was eating like a lot of gummies. And even now that that's over, I still eat them at night. But no, I was never a, I was never a, I mean, I could huge pot smoker or anything. Oh gosh, no, absolutely not. So how does this suburban single mom go from bartending and being a paralegal to all of a sudden saying, oh, listen, I'm going to, I'm going to get a side hustle as selling drugs. Well, well, it started like, um, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I had, I knew a guy that I've known since childhood and he had moved up to Northern California and was growing weed. And I knew this girl in LA and she had started a delivery service and she told me about

9:22it and I knew that I had him. And I was like, you mean, you're just like delivering weed all day, like running ads and, and you're kind of working your hours and she's like, yeah, and she told me, about it. And I'm like, I wouldn't do that. And she let me talk to her about it. So you thought at first it was like just being a delivery person. Yeah, because that's really all it. What? I mean, it's still to me. I'm like, that is all it was. Right. Um, so. And what was the state of, um, where you like, like, I'm not a pot smoker. So it's hard for, like, I don't know the rules. So back in this 2009, it wasn't, it was legal if you had the marijuana card. Is that what they did? Yes. Okay. And like all states had different, different rules on that. But yes, if you had a medical marijuana card, then you could, um, go into a dispensary or you could carry around an ounce of weed or, and you would, it was legal, but you had

10:23to have that card. Okay. And to get the card, a doctor has to say you need it for certain reason. Yes. Okay. And as your friend being the delivery service person, was she working for a marijuana center, like a medical marijuana center, or she was like a drug dealer delivery girl? So she was in California and she was working for this guy. And he was like, he just had, um, any, I don't know, see Florida. They have, I know you're in Florida. They're behind a little bit. Yeah. But yeah. So she was working for this guy who had had this delivery from like 98. And it was legal and there, it was recreational in California. Okay. They didn't need medical cards over there. And she was just like, you know, they answer phones and then they send me out to, you know, wherever it is. And I deliver it. And I'm like, well, I could do that, you know? And I'm like, but we need, you know, I had to learn, I had to ask around and, you know,

11:24find out what the kind of like the rules are with the card. And then I learned about the card and I went back to her and I'm like, you know, can, can you help me like, where do I advertise? Like how do I do this? And she was like, you know, you, it's like you go to weed maps and you put an ad. And it's really that easy. And I was like, okay. So to back up, I called this guy. I know in Northern California who was growing weed. And I was like, look, can I, can I come by some weed from you? I'd like to start a delivery service. And he's like, no, you can't, you can't do it. Like you'll never do this. Why? And he was like, you're just, you know, you're not kind of for this. Like he's like, you're not, you can't, you don't know what you're doing. Like you're never going to do this. So I went, I drove out there and, uh, or actually I flew out there and I rented a car and I, and I, I'm just going to start.

12:28It had Kentucky license plates. And as soon as I get to him, he's like, what are you? Have Kentucky license plates? You're going to Arizona, you're driving through California. Like what are you doing? And I'm like, so I had to go back and tell him something was wrong with the car. So they would exchange my car out and give me California license plates. And so I did and I went back and he was kind of like mean, like he's like, I don't want to do this. Like, you know, I know your family, like we've grown up together. Like he, he's like by here and he's like, and you're wasting your money. So I paused there for once I guess. So you had to put money out to get into the business, right? So you had to actually buy the weed from him. Yeah, he did not front me though. We, I bought it from him. Okay. So how was that first transaction, I guess? How much did you buy and did you know? It was so much money. It cost me $6600. It was like everything I had and it gave me six pounds of weed.

13:30That, that, that it wasn't that much. Okay. But it was everything and it was so scary to me. That was like in the scheme of things, that is not a lot of weed at all. But it, what it is when you don't know, you're like. And so he, I remember like sitting in his kitchen, he was being so mean to me. And he was like wiping it down with alcohol. I mean, he did put a lot of care in how he packaged it and stuff. And you know, he drove, he lived on a mountain. He was growing weed on a mountain. He drove me down the mountain and like dust it off my heart. Like he, he's like, so it didn't look like I was up in the hills because that's something at that time they wouldn't look for. And he's like, Carly like, you know, he, he just like, I mean, he was so mean to me when I look back at it. And he did not want to do it. And he's like, in your wasting your money and this and that. And so I drove home and I kept it in a closet. Like I was so scared I didn't want to do it.

14:32Wait, do you drove from California back to Arizona? Yeah. Okay. Stopped in San Diego, it's month and I. And then I, and then I, and then hold on. Are you, if I had we, if I even had a, what do you call them? A dooby? What? Yeah, join the joint. If you, I'm sorry. Again, it's not a pot smoker. It sounds so stupid. If I even had a joint in my car, I would be so scared that somebody was going to pull me over. You know what I mean? So you have $6,600 worth of pot in your car and you're staying in a hotel. Like, are you so nervous? You're going to get pulled over for any reason? I'm so scared. I'm going to get, I'm going to, they're going to pull me over. I mean, so, I'm even afraid and it's like in a double bag. And I'm bringing it with me because it's everything I own in life right now. I'm bringing it in with me into a hotel. And I'm afraid like the people at the front desk can tell I have this in the suitcase. Like, you know, yes, I was terrified and I was terrified to even have it. So I, and then I drove home and I was, I ran in it.

15:35I ran these, so I drove home. I put it in the closet, right? And immediately I ran these ads to deliver my weed. Like you put them, it's called a menu. You put it up on weed maps, you put your prices up and you say what it is. And you know, they obviously told you what to do for prices and how much I didn't even know how to weigh out weed. Like I had to call this guy and I had to like, and he was so irritated with me. I can't, if you know, if you know this guy too, like, you know how sometimes like amazing chefs are just really are total assholes or like he's like an amazing grower and he is a, he is an asshole. Like I, he even to the, I just saw him and if you know, he, I've known him for 30 years now. Like he, he is an asshole and he, he's like so irritated with me and he's like, you don't, you shouldn't be doing this. If you don't know how to wait, like there's, I bought a jewelry scale to weigh out, to

16:40weigh my weed out because I was too, like weirded out to walk into like a head shop to buy a normal scale. Right. And so I, you know, I didn't know what to do. And so I'm weighing my, you know, weighing my weed and I keep it and I run, so I have my little menu. I know how to roll my, or I know how to package my weed. I know how to weigh it now. But and I run my ads and I start getting phone calls, but I'm too nervous. Like I'm like, I know the first time I do this, like they're going to pull me over like, so for like, wait, were you nervous that anyone that was calling was a cop? I was worried they were caught. I was worried that I get pulled over driving. Right. You know, even, even if it was the legal amount, I was just, I really was paranoid and the, the thing I was most paranoid about was they were going to arrest me and they were going to put me in the news. That was like my, and it, my, and everybody would know because at that time really nobody

17:44knew, like nobody knew except my friend in LA who told me about this and then this guy in Northern California. Right. I know you still bartending on, on the side when you started this. So at that time, which is so weird, I believe I just had a little eBay store and I was selling stuff on eBay because I had time. Like it wasn't, if I, I didn't have, I had, I would just remember I, my schedule was flexible. I wasn't. Okay. So I, um, and, and wait, I have a quick question. When you put the ad in, um, and people are calling you, it's not your problem if it's people that don't have the card or if it's people that do, right? Like would they say to you, I have my marijuana card, so I'm allowed to have this or would they say, don't tell me because this is illegal. Like, how does that whole thing work? So you know, it's, it works like this. Like they will, they, I was so paranoid too that I was like text only. I'm not talking to these people like I want to see everything.

18:47I want to see everything. Um, and so they, so they would text me their phone number and then I would say I need your medical card and an ID. So they'd send an ID and then they'd send a medical card and they're like some of the things you had to look for was like the expiration date of the medical card was that on point. And, um, and, and they would do that. And then, you know, I would maybe Google the address and see if they're, you know, what, but that was back. Google wasn't like what it was now. But there was like phone services that you could, um, like working girls use it and you put in a phone number and it shows like who owns that phone number. Oh, so if their name matched up to the, to their ID, I felt much better and I would deliver to them. But if it was like a burn number, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go like I truly was that paranoid.

19:47Right. And, um, so that was like one thing I had like I, I kind of figured out I could do that like kind of gave me some peace of mind. Right. And were you only going to work with the people that had the medical license or? Yes. Yes. Because I, in my head, they weren't going to come after me, even though I knew it was a gray market, like it was a gray area. Well, I've heard you say that it's a gray area, but what, explain what that means? What was gray about it? Like if they had their license, are they not supposed to get it from an individual like you? Is that what was gray about it? So what you, so you can get like a caregiver, it's called a caregiver license and you can take somebody's medical card and that gives you permission to cultivate X amount of pounds per medical card that you have, which means grow. So there, and there was like a strange loophole in that, in the medical card where it would

20:50be called patient to patient. So I had a card. And if you had a card, I could give you an ounce of weed. Patient, I could gift it to you. Oh, interesting. You can't buy it from me, but you can donate to me. Got it. So that was what, how we had to word it, like, or how, you know, $150 an ounce donation. So even when people would message me, they, I mean, everybody kind of knew how to do this. They would say donation, question mark, knowing that, like, that what's the price, you know? So, but it, like, even though people swore, oh, you can't get trouble when you're like, I just knew anything that's not white is, and anything gray or whatever is black, it's a black market. Like, I just, whether, I tried to convince myself it wasn't like in my heart, like, I knew, you know.

21:50So, and, you know, really, like, I will tell you, like, with that medical card, right, you can have an ounce of weed on you. Well, what did I start doing as I got busy? I would carry around a little duffle bag, you know, with more than an ounce and put it in my trunk. So, like, yeah, I knew that was, you know, so if I went and I did something and I sold weed to somebody, an undercover cop, at that time, if they would have gone to my car and seen my trunk, like, you know, it's more, I'm breaking the law. Right. So tell me about the very first time you ended up, okay, so you weigh it, you wrap it, you do whatever the hell you're doing, and then you have your first order. How did that go down? Oh my gosh, I still remember that kid, Angel. You, at that time, you lived at the other side of town too. So I, I was just like, I have to do it. I was a Saturday morning and it was quite, I was so nervous.

22:51And he lived on the other side of town in not, a not so great area. But he kept trying and I'd seen how many times and I could find his Facebook and I knew he was like this young kid and he was a dad and what a, and so I just, but yeah, boom, boom, boom. And then I came, I can even see like how he texts and, and I brought it to him and he was my customer the whole, until I stopped it. He became, he's my first customer, right? And I told him that later on, I'm like, I'm so scared. And he stayed my customer until I stopped doing it. And he, and it was, I was so nervous, but I brought home $150 and it was like, I just drove and came, you know, and it was, and I was like, okay, you know, I can, I can do this. And where the calls coming in, like where the ads working and your phone was, you were getting these text messages? Yes. And here's the wild thing. Okay. So because I was going up to Northearn California that I'm real trying to like, I had a

23:56really good weed, but I didn't even like, you know, I didn't know. Like I, I just knew my friend was up there and it was safe to buy from him, you know. So I come home and, and people are like, well, is it good? Can you send pictures? What I'm like, yeah, it's good. Yeah, send pictures. Well, then in my review, you, they can review your weed and they're like, no, this is good weed. And, and so like, I would get more and more customers. But what had happened is, and that wasn't in that first batch, but like shortly thereafter, like two or three batches in this guy, this crazy guy grew this strain of weed, girls scout cookies. That was like phenomenal. Like to be honest, I even after that, like I never, as far as like the clients were concerned, I had never, I never even ever got weed. That's strain of weed. That was so good. Well, somebody put a reddit the red about it. So about this strain of weed, right?

24:58And so somebody called her like, hey, I just read on reddit that you have this girl scout. And I want you, I would like to order it to order it. They're texting me. And I'm like, what do you mean reddit? And I go send me this linker and they sent it and I go, I don't want to be on reddit. Like I don't, I just like want to sell like, I don't even need to sell like, I don't, I just want to go look like I'm a profile and like, and so because he put that ad in, though, I sold all that guys that strain of weed for, I like sold it all. And I should back up. Once I started, I sold because of my reviews, I sold out that weed quick. And I came back to him and I had more money and I was like, I need more weed. He's like, what? Like he couldn't fully knew if you did it. Yeah. So on that 66 hundred that you spent, how much did you make on that $6600? So when you broke it down, depending on it was being sold for anywhere between 27 and

26:03$3200 a pound, depending on like how it was broken down. And I had people and they wanted, they had their own delivery services and they knew I had good weed. So they wanted to buy weed from me. And that is probably, that's probably where I got my own. I probably shouldn't, what I probably shouldn't have done. I should have just stayed and had my little, but I started selling weed to the other people in my community who had delivery services. Got it. So you became the source as like a guy in California became your, was your source. So okay, wait, just for people listening, I want to understand. So you, you spent all you had $6600. By the time you went back to California to go get more from hand, where you now purchasing another $6600 and you had, you know, $5,000 in your bank account or like break down the math for me a little bit. So people are understanding how, why this became more than just a side hustle that it,

27:04it was really doing you, you know, you were really making some money. So then, so I remember that, I just remember the next time I bought 10 and I kept some cash like under my bed. I wanted, I was like, I want a better deal though because I'm buying more. And he was like, you're not buying that much. Like he's like, I'm doing you a favor. And I was like, okay. And so I do remember we had that kind of, I'm like, can I just have a bed? And he's like, I'm doing you a favor and, and he know what, looking back at it and knowing what I know, that guy, even though he's been my, and he's so difficult, but he really took very good care of me and in a set like he, there are certain things he did just to like, on his part, make sure things were a little bit safer. But he was real tight with the money. We always would go back and forth. And I ended up, I just, he, I ended up like that once that once I sold his whole garden

28:10of that strain. And I was like, you know, the next year, like he, he had, he had some substance abuse issues and he lost the kind that strain never came back. And like to this day, I know he, we talk about it, but to go back, yeah. So, so I bought 10 and 10 pounds. And then like I said, and then I kept, I came back to him like, I would say maybe like five or six times. And then I came back one time and he, like I said, had some substance abuse issues and he couldn't find him. And this girl, I went into a bar and this girl, the bartender grew weed. And this, it's different up there. I don't know if you've ever seen, have you, have you ever seen anything about the Emerald Triangle? No. Like, that's, I mean, it's different now. The market's crashed and it's a total different world. But back then, like, in those counties, that's all those people.

29:13They live up in the hills and they grew weed and they grew the best weed in the United States. Like, they, I mean, they still do. And, and so I ended up working with this woman who was like nice and sober and she treated me well. And she would, I didn't, she, I worked with her a few times and she trusted me and we ended up having this good relationship and she wasn't mean to me or, you know, she was, and she would, for me, wait, she would just let me take 100 pounds of it home and then I would work and then I'd come bring her, her money and her prices were a little bit higher but I didn't have to tie all my money into it. Right. Right. So, and, and you know, for a long time, that would last a long, long, you know, it would last me. She didn't need a huge favor. I didn't have to like, you know, leave my son and figure out how I'm going to get there. So, talk about those 10 years as you're doing this. So you start to make some money and at one point are you really doing well enough that

30:16money is no longer an issue and you're happy and your son's doing well? Mm. Yeah. I mean, my son was doing well. And so, like, it's like anybody else I've ever spoke to in the end, like, it's never enough. Like it, it's never going to be, you always think, you know, you start, you start moving too quick and you get a little bit careless and, but, because I, like, I know I know to all these people that have been in trouble. It's kind of the same thing always in the end. You just think you're not ever going to get in trouble and, but, but, you do more risky things. Right. Yeah. But to back up, look, I got to send my son to like skateboard camp, you know, I, and like, I just didn't, I wouldn't, I'm not going to say I was ever like just falling because,

31:17you know, but I didn't, but I lived a nice life and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I got to go in the summer. I would go to California with my son and I would stay and, um, I ended up getting later on down the line. I had a girl that worked with me who is probably one of the most solid human beings on the planet that I could trust. And she gave her a really good life and, um, for her family. And I kind of like stepped back and was kind of like, I was kind of sick of it, but she, I would help, you know, she was kind of the face of it and she, she was a, she was like a workaholic. She worked, every day. I finally, I had to be like, you need to take Sundays off to be with your family. Like, she was, um, so I really like, I did, I took a cut, but like, I really wasn't like, I mean, I, I checked in with her everyday and stuff, but like, I was able to hand that off.

32:17Yeah. And it, that was like a really nice time in my life. Like, I will tell you, because I had worked so hard up until then. And, um, and I had enough, I've always kind of been like, I had enough money where I, you know, I would, I was, I had nice things, but it wasn't like, I was driving, you know, a Porsche or something. I would eat, it was like, um, I had a good, I had a nice car. I had all these things. But it was different than when you were struggling as a bartender. Oh my god. It was the truly, like, I look back at it and it really, like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm going to be back at it and it really, it was a really nice time in my life. And it was during the time my son was in high school too. So like, I could be home. And like, when he got home, I could look him in the eye and like make sure he was, you know, not doing things. He's, you know, I had eyes on him. Well speaking about that, you now know what it's like when people are doing drugs at that point. So were you nervous that your son was ever going to be drawing, buying weed from people did you care?

33:18Did you, you know, were you ever called, called in to, did somebody ever text you? That was a friend of your sons and they didn't realize that they were, they were talking to their friend's mom. Um, that was another big fear. I, that's why I, I ended up having this girl, like, go up my biggest fear. It really wasn't even that I didn't want to work. It was that I've grown up here and I didn't want and I purposely went to neighborhoods. I, we worked in like some of the poorest neighborhoods. Um, I, I'm not even sure how that came to be, but that just seemed to, we did a lot of trailer parks like we, I don't, and I honestly don't even know how that ended up being like my little niche, but it ended up falling there. But my biggest fear was that I was going to go somewhere and that was going to somehow know somebody in my life or know, put my son and it did it happen one time.

34:21And I realized I, and it was on the other side of town, was this kid, my son is still friends with him. And when I got there and the guy that comes out, I knew it was my son's friends stepdad. And I just took off like, and that was my biggest fear that I was going to get put in the news or like you said, like, somebody I knew. And that's why I think I did so much research on who these people were. Even if I knew like they were law enforcement, I would look in their Facebook like, is there do I have mutual friends with these people? Right. I guess you don't want to show up at someone's house and have them hurt you, you know, or steal the rest of your drugs or whatever. Also, they can go right. Right. Right. So break down then over the course of the 10 years, you started as someone who you thought of yourself just as a delivery person. But what did it really turn into? I mean, it's funny because when I sit here and I think about it, like it really was just

35:23a delivery service. Like, you know, even when I have these guys, and I know we haven't gotten there, it really am. That's really all it is. We were just delivering people personal amounts of weed on it. Obviously, I was supplying other delivery services. And to pay back off that, that actually kind of freaked me out even more. And sometimes I think that is maybe how I got in trouble because now I have more liability. If somebody else gets in trouble, then it comes back to, you know, somehow it could come back to me. And I lost my train of thought and I'm sorry, but I just, that really is all it was. It was just bringing people weed. There was a lot of sick people. We had really good price. Like I was like kind of like the Walmart in a way I had high quality weed at a decent

36:24price, but it wasn't like fancy packaging or anything. It was just, you know, and we had a lot of sick people, like truly medical patients. But did you also have kids that were just, you know, trying it under agents, like doing illegal stuff and then you show up and be like, I'm not giving this to you. No, because I had a medical, they had to have medical cards. And so they had to be, I mean, if I ever sold, I did not, I never, like knew I was doing, that wasn't a line I ever crossed. Right. So at some point you're ultimately moving thousands of pounds of marijuana, right? Probably. Like at the height, just to go back to the money, how much were you making? Like did you ever have a million dollars in your bank account? No, no, no, no, no. Okay. Quick break here, folks, because I have to tell you this conversation doesn't end when the episode does. Some of my favorite moments never make the public podcast. They happen after we stop recording behind the scenes or in conversations that are just

37:28a little too personal for the regular show. That's exactly what you'll find on Patreon. Depending on your membership, you'll get exclusive bonus episodes, my weekly Palm Beach Life series behind the scenes content, monthly mystery box giveaways and even the opportunity to book a one on one video call with me about whatever is on your mind. If you've ever wished you could be part of the conversation instead of just listening to it. That's your chance. Join us at patreon.com slash misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. What did your son know during all this? I mean, he obviously saw you not working at these other jobs and your life had changed and you're obviously doing some new things. Did your son know about what was happening? Yes. And how did you explain that to him? Did he think it was cool? What? No. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it wasn't that did he think it was cool? I remember in the beginning, it wasn't right in the beginning, but maybe when he was around

38:30a freshman year of high school, because I was more, I had storage unit. He knew what I was doing, but he didn't know to the extent. But I had come home from California and I had put a product in my closet and just gone about my life and my son went in my closet to get something. He was mum. There's an uncomfortable amount of weed in your closet. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to get it out of here. And he's like, I mean, like, it's uncomfortable. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get it out of there. So he knew. And I think that's really where I have guilt because there were times. And he couldn't tell people what I did. He kept a lot of secrets. And when you read about dysfunction and stuff and things, it's really terrible to make

39:33your kid keep secrets for you. I think that's what, and my son is very loyal. He would, like, he would never sell me out. And I think that's like where he never told his dad like nothing. Nobody, you know? And so I do, I have guilt about that. He never, he would never, he never talked about it to anybody. And did he ever come to you and say, mom, can I try it? No, but he got in trouble early in high school first smoking weed. The school called me in. And I had to talk, you know, like I had to go in and he got a job. I don't know. He wasn't smoking weed at school, but he was smoking weed off campus and it got back to school. And I had to go in and talk. And that was a topic. Oh, it wasn't like that he had stolen from you or it was like his friends had bought it and you were like, oh my god, you can't do it this way.

40:35I have weed. Don't do that or have enough. Well, I was just like, no, I got mad at him. I was like, if you, you can, and I'm kind of ashamed to say this, like I got mad at him. I was like, you cannot bring, like, attention to yourself like cops. Like that's like where I was more angry about that. I'm like, I come into the school and I, like you cannot do that. And like I do feel bad about that. But no, I was never, I didn't want, he was young. I didn't, like, I didn't want, I mean, later on, you know, I didn't care. But he was still like 14 years old. I was like, no. Right. You know, no. So, because you have to remember, I don't, that's not what I do. So, you know, yeah, you weren't indulging in it. All right, take me to the day of 2019. You're in a car and there's a routine traffic stop. So no, that's not, okay, tell me what happened. So, so what had happened was, I got a fault.

41:38I never delivered to Scottsdale, which is where I live. And I get a phone call and to this, it was a house in Scottsdale and it's out about a couple miles from my house. And I was on my way. I had just met that girl that I told you I worked with and I had to bring her some stuff and get some money. And we get a call for delivery in Scottsdale and she's like, well, we don't deliver to Scottsdale. Oh, I'm really sick. I have cancer, this and that and whatever. And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, I'll just, I'll just, it's on my way home. I'll just drop it to them. And so, she didn't, it was, she gave it to me and the addresses, everything matched up, the card or whatever. And the guy comes out and he tips me, you know, he tips me and I said, you don't, you don't need to tip me because I'm the owner. But if the other girl comes back, please, please tip her.

42:40And as I drove away, I'm like, I don't think that was the guy in the medical card. Like I kind of, like I just, but I still didn't like, but as soon as I turned the corner, then the cops came and they pulled me over and that is, they pulled me over and thank God that's all I had because I was just driving home. So what did you have on you? So I just had an ounce and then I had $230. So I just had his delivery and then two hundred, I didn't have, like it really, in that way, it worked out for, but I had identified myself to this man. Like I had said, I'm the owner and you don't have to. So was that just thing? Like what was it? Yes. Okay. They pulled their guns out to arrest me so stupid and put me, they drove me in their truck and it's so hot out. I just remember that.

43:40It's so hot. And they put you in like one of those drunk tanks where they get all of the, you know, where they do a nasty UI and put you in one of those. So they put me in and when I walked in, it was like all these young kids and they're like, are you the public defender? No, I'm in trouble. And they're like, all these like younger people and there was a couple older people, but they're, and they, and I remember I sat the mixes for all and she was so upset and she's like, I haven't, I disabled child at home and she was like a young, young girl. And I'm like, just don't say anything. Just sit here. It's going to be okay. Just, just don't say anything. And yeah, so they put me in the junk tank and then, but when I was taught, you know, and the cop was like processing me and the drunk tank, I was like, is it, are you guys really doing this? Like, this is how, like the sore our taxpayer money is going. He's like, the dispensaries are mad. He's like, the dispensaries have, you know, been contacting us because you guys are taking

44:44money from them and you're not licensed. So they did this thing. And I mean, the cop actually was really nice. He was like, you cure it. They had pizza and donuts because of course. And he's like, eat something. It's going to be a while before you eat. And I didn't really believe him. I was like, no, we're going to just go home. But no, they rest in so many people that day. Like so many. I don't remember. I think it's in the news article. They got a, they were busy. This is part of all this one sting got a bunch of kids and you and me. Yeah. And a couple older people. Yeah. But mostly it was like young kids driving for a delivery service. Right. They didn't have, they were just drivers. They didn't have any skin. So you said something interesting that these dispensaries were getting mad. Could you have just opened up your own business? Not in Phoenix because it's a monopoly and they only give X amount of licenses.

45:46It's not really a lot. Truly, it's not, it's not like California where there's one on every corner. And even after I got in trouble, they ended up giving something called social equity licenses. I don't know if you know what that is, but they offer very few licenses to people who've been in trouble before. And it's their way of like giving reparations for the war on drugs for people that have gotten in trouble for weed before it was legal. But even to get one of those license, it's a lottery and you have to pay $10,000 just to get put into the lottery. Like they make it really so that then these people that already own dispensaries are paying that they're like they could come to me and say, hey, we're going to pay the $10,000. If you get the, if you draw your name, we'll buy it from you for $100,000. Like it's, it's not really in Arizona and that's, it's not the same way in all states, but in Arizona, the way it's set up, that's how it is.

46:46Right. So once you're arrested, how long were you there? I was there for. So I, they probably, by the time they, we sat in that drunk tank all day and it was so hot and then they got us there. It's probably like 8 PM because it was getting dark. And then I, I had an attorney on retainer like I knew up. So I called them from inside the jail and crying like a baby and he came and he met me at my court date at like seven the next morning and, and he got me out of there. Okay. And then, but so did something happen after that? I mean, you weren't found with that much. And from what I read, maybe this is completely wrong, but it's that at some point you were driving with a hundred pounds of marijuana and $22,000 in cash and you get in trouble. Is that, did that happen? Yes. Okay. So you did that later.

47:47No. That was six months beforehand. Okay. So what happened? So, so that happened in Cal, in California and I was driving and they, I, I was pulled over and that was a really bad night and I had a hundred pounds of weed and I had $22,000 and, they, that night I got put in jail for just, just the night I had a girl that was actually driving the weed home for me that day and she had cash and she came and bailed me out. So I got out of there and wait, what made them check your car to find all that stuff? Because I had a scale in the back seat. Got it. And then they said, pop the trunk or something and they found it all. And they found it all. Okay. So at some point you spent some time in jail. I think you got, were you ever in jail for six months or something?

48:50Yes. I was sentenced to six months in jail. Okay. Because I had been in trouble two times really quick and I had been sentenced to six months in jail and they let me do one month in jail in Ucaya and then for the next five months they let me do it at home. I think I got to go or so I spent one month in jail and then I got to do the rest like house arrest home arrest. Okay. And that experience changed my life. Why? For, for, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. Because it like opened my eyes to what we do to people that, it, jail is not really a lot of like people like you and me. It's people that have mental health issues and it's people that are addicted to drugs.

49:51And like even when I was in jail there were like two other girls that were like not drug addicts and not mental health. One girl was in there because for like forgery another girl was in there. It was like a domestic violence thing but it was weird. But it's just a revolving door of people that have mental health and have drug problems. And to me like I got there and I was in there. You know, I was nervous but when I really, I was like horrified. I was like these people need to be in the hospital. Like these, they are sick. Most of them not all but most of them are out of their mind sick and they're, and eventually what happens is that they sedate them. Everybody like there's a pill line. Everybody but me and the southern girl would go every morning and night to the pill line.

50:53And to me that is what was so. Like these people, jail has become a mental institution. And so like I just remember, you know, I was there for 30 days and you know, I remember like when I walked in because it was during COVID. So for like 10 days of it, I had to be put in a like isolated. So if they were sure I didn't have COVID and I couldn't spread it. So when I got out to like the general population or whatever, like all these girls, because they all know each other, right? Because it's a revolving door of these people that just keep going back in there and they didn't know me. I'm not from there. They're like kind of like what are you here for? Where did you come from? And they were, you know, I remember this girl, she goes, you don't look like you belong in here.

51:53And I was like, nobody belongs in here. This is so sick. None of you guys belong in here. And, you know, and so I just remember I was sitting here and I'm like, I have to like, this is just so not right. I just, I walked out, I remember I called my mom and she's like, you should be like Kim Kardashian and try to help them. And I'm like, no, I'm really going to try to do something. And I don't think she thought I was serious. But like from the moment I walked out of that jail, like, it's, I've never really been the same because I've just kind of like seen these people are out of sight at a mine and they're being completely mistreated. And they need help. They don't need you. They need help. Okay. Couple of questions. So first of all, what happened to your son when he went to jail? He found out you got arrested and you were going to jail. I mean, at this point, I'm assuming people in your neighborhood or your friends now found out what was happening. So when I was, this is too why I'm upset or I feel not upset, but I feel terrible.

52:59When I was arrested the first time in California, when I had all the weed on my trunk, it was then it was the day before my son's birth, two days before my son's birth. And my son had, stay arrested me and I didn't know my son's phone number if I heart. Like I hate to say that, but I didn't because we have them all in the phone. Yeah, I don't know my son's number. It's true. If anything ever happened to me, I wouldn't know. I know my friend from sixth grade's phone number. Right. But yeah, different times. And so I didn't. And so I know I knew he knew like that's what was killing me. Like I knew he knew something wasn't wrong because I always check in even now. He's 26. Like I check in with him all the time. And so I knew he knew and he was scared. So when I finally got this guard and he was nice to let me to look up my attorney's phone

54:02number and give it to me and I called him. I'm like, I need you to call my son and he had a way to be able to get a hold of him. And so then I called him as soon as I, excuse me, came out and like I could hear it in his voice, you know, like he was really, I had really scared him. And then the girl who was that she had stayed and she ended up on the Aadajal and she drove me home. And they took my ID and stuff like I couldn't, I couldn't fly home and she drove me home and it took two days, you know, and I missed his birthday. And it just, oh, it just felt, it was so, it was so bad. And like that's where my regret comes from is like I put my son through a lot of stuff and a lot of worries. And like even, you know, he was, he had that in his back of his head like my mom could get in trouble.

55:03And that to me, that's like where my guilt is, like that, to put that type of anxiety on my child. Like I don't really have guilt for what I did because it's a weed and it wasn't hurting anybody. And, but I have tons of guilt for what I did with when it comes to my son. Right. Tons. Right. And if I were you and you'd been doing well and making all this money and didn't have another job and I got arrested and I saw it was happening and I came out, I understand it changed your life, but I also would be like what the fuck am I going to do for money now? So was that going through your mind? Like how did you think you were going to survive next? Like, like I said, like I was never a person like I didn't want to be in trouble. So I was never flashy. I didn't want people to know. I lived off that money for a long time. And like I was like I was lucky in that way. Like I had money saved. I had money to pay for attorneys.

56:05I in that sense, like I was kind of responsible in that way. I didn't have, you know, massive car payments that, you know, you see people or have or like I had, but I want like it don't get me wrong. I had nice things like I had nice, you know, I had, but I just, I was not that person at all. I just, I just wanted a job where I could be home like like flexible for my son. And that's really what it, what it was. Yeah. So you weren't doing it to have the money and live some super star like no, no, no, no, no. No. So now talk to me, you said, like, I'm jail changed you, you get out of jail. And how do you get into this new mission in life, like explain life's life since, since you got out? Well, it's kind of weird because really all I wanted to do, like when I was sitting there,

57:07like I was like, I'm just going to make a documentary about like that's really, I'm like I'm just so I can be like let people know. But somehow, and I don't even know how it got to this point. I just started like I got really involved in this space. And I started volunteering for an organization that supported cannabis prisoners. And from that, it kind of just snowballed. And I'm like, I still haven't finished this document. And that's what it was always about. But like I have social media, you know, and I bring, I help people that are in there. I try to connect people with people that can help them. Is that jailed? Is that jailed for weed? Yes. So can you, my social media. So people, um, listening, explain that mission to them and exactly what you do and exactly what jailed for weed does. So really, all I do is bring, bring attention, bring people stories out there because they're horrifying. There's people doing hard time, even life sentences for, for weed.

58:08And some of those people doing life sentences are, um, some of those people doing life sentences are first time offenders. They'd never been in trouble before. But like that happened. I mean, I, I read that. You got a trial. But I don't, I just don't get it. It seems so insane to me. It is so insane. It is so insane. And like anybody, I tell like, if I talk to people about this and a lot, I talk to a lot of people like you don't smoke like, and even they're like, wait, this is so, like nobody is ever like, yes, you should be. But was it that they sold weed to someone who then killed someone else? I mean, maybe I would understand if there was a trickle down effect from it. But, but some of the stories that I've read from your, you know, that I've seen on your page, you know, and the people that you're advocating for, some of these stories are really crazy. And I want you to share some that, you know, that you want to bring light to their case.

59:10Okay. So to start like the feds are, the feds are no joke. The feds will do what they want to do. And they will, if they want you, they will take you. And I just like watched your podcast with Jackie, little fixed grand, granddaughter. Like, if they want to build a case on you, they will. They will take all sorts of rats and they will build this case on you that has no basis in reality or maybe like a sliver of reality, right? And if you don't cooperate with them and give them more people, it's almost like a pyramid scheme like and give them more people to feed into their system, they are going to cook you. And, and there is no other way around it. Like, that is, is it? So like, if you take like one of these guys, there's one Michael Woods, he's a first time

1:00:12offender. He, he just wouldn't cooperate and he got a, and he rolled the dice and he went to trial and the judge gave him a life sentence. And, you know, the feds, I don't know, just like, if you have a case that, a federal case that comes out of California because it's a liberal state, their judges are generally more liberal, right? Yeah, you're not going to get that in California, but if you have a case out of Nebraska or Texas or something where they just are like, this is drugs and this is, you're going to, you're going to do some time. So it's kind of like a luck who picks up your case. And like, right now I have Max Lighterman and he is a first time offender. He's a guy out of L.A. He has, he has legal cannabis businesses as well. And allegedly he was shipping weed across state lines and somebody got pulled over in Nebraska

1:01:16and somehow it led to him. And they took him to Nebraska, HSI took him and he's sitting there right now. It's been three years. He has never seen his discovery. And he is like, I mean, he is so, he is probably the most intelligent human being I've ever met. But he's sitting there and because he will not cooperate against people, they have taken everything he owns in civil asset forfeiture and so he has to fight that and they went and they told his attorney that his attorney was being paid with drug money. So they threatened the attorney. He lost his attorney. And now he has some public defender who like is a public defender and has 300 other clients. And he's never going to get a fair shot. And he keeps fighting. And his case is like a modern day case. Like these things don't happen very often. Like this is a weird one in modern day.

1:02:19But like if you look at 15 years ago, I have a guy named Parker Pullman who was 24 years old, who was getting weed in LA and putting it on an airplane in North Carolina. And he got jubbled. They, he was only doing it, I think for like a year, like not even like he built up a ton of money or whatever. I will say with him when he was arrested, he did have a gun on him. So that does kind of change things slightly. But he did never got caught with any weed. And just so you know, max the guy in Nebraska. He never has been caught with any weed either. It's just the testimony of other people saying that it's called it's called ghost dope. And so it's their testimony saying that they had it. But Parker, he was sent, he went to trial and he was sentenced to 60 years. And because of the length of his sentence, he has spent the whole entire time at a federal penitentiary.

1:03:20He's not at a camp, you know, he's like with violence people where they are. People are dying and being stabbed weekly. So not only did he get this like 60 years of time away from his family, away from society, away from his, from loved ones, he also like, if you ever gonna like, how do you mentally? Yeah, how do you, you said he was 24. I mean, he'll be in jail. I just interviewed a guy. You should listen to the episode of Guy named Dusty Turner, who was in jail longer than he's been out of jail. He was in jail for 31 years and he went to jail when he was 20 for a crime he didn't commit. So I mean, it's just, it's terrible. It's terrible. And he just got out recently and to watch how he goes through life now. I mean, you know, my question was how, like, how do you survive now in society because your society was jail, you know, like he's grown up learning a different world, you know? But I guess to me, like the biggest thing is the laws have changed so much 15 years

1:04:21ago, whatever it was. You know, marijuana was illegal and, you know, so I get that it was an issue then. But now that laws have changed, you would think that a lot of these people, you know, they always talk about how prisons are so overcrowded and that they would go to these cases specifically and say, okay, time served. Has it been enough for the crime, you know? And go ahead. But, but racially, I want to bring something to your attention. Marijuana is still schedule one drug as far as the feds are concerned. It's not legal. That's like why in like a Nebraska, it's not, it's still they, they go by what the federal government, it's illegal. Certain states have like legalized it or made it medical. But regardless, again, like a black, white gray, if the feds decide to pick up your case, it is illegal. Now Trump has said he wants it schedule three and, but it still hasn't been, people say it's going to, and maybe it will. I don't know, but as of right now, it's not, it, it, it, it isn't schedule three.

1:05:26There's something he did with medical, but it's not, it's not really anything. And so, and I like, I don't, you know, you would think that these are the people that they would send home, but prison is big business. Yeah, okay. There are people. There's a lot of people. Yeah. The prison prison is a, there are a lot of people making a lot of money off prison. And these people get lost in the system. I mean, it's just too hard to even get them out once they're in. I mean, it's just there, there's so many legal hurdles to go through. I'm curious, like impossible. Like why isn't Jackie's grandpa home? Like, look at that one. Like what's he going to do? You know, they could put him at home and save that money. We say there's spent, it's like Max just told me the other day, it costs $200 a day for him to remain incarcerated. But the government is paying the jail, you know, like it's just, it's it, it's it.

1:06:31So, do you talk to Parker and Max and these, all these people? I'm curious next time you talk to them or maybe you know the answer, would they say to their younger selves or would they say to kids nowadays? Would they, would their advice be don't do pot, don't smoke it, don't sell it, don't get involved in it? Or, or do they fully believe what they did was, they're completely innocent and they will be set free one day? So I think Parker would probably say like, stay out, like stay out of the street. That's like a him and Max are real different cases, like as far as the background of it, sure he'd be like, you know, stay out of the streets and go to school and all the things like that. I'm sure he would. Max is this like, like, men's a smart type guy and he's very defiant. He's like, this is so stupid and so wrong. And that, but I'm sure he wishes that he would have used his brain to do something.

1:07:32I'm sure, you know, rather than I'm wouldn't be in this situation. Yeah. So what's next for you? Like, what's your second act in life? What do you think you're going to be doing going forward? Well, I'm hoping that Max, there's some stuff going on in the background that I'm hoping that his case will kind of shake out and will at least have an answer soon. And then, you know, with like, these are like my two guys, like, I'm kind of like committed to Parker. I like, I don't know because he just had his clemency denied and I don't know. But I would like to still advocate for people, but I can't be so involved anymore. Like, it's worn on me. Like, I just had my thyroid have my liver moved and my doctor's like, you can't be stressed anymore. And so, like, I don't, I don't really know. I'm focused on Max right now because we're making progress.

1:08:35But I would just love to finish my documentary. And then I think like I'll still always run a social media account and bring attention. But like, I would, if I'm being really honest, like, I need to kind of, at least for a while, like, separate myself. Like, when I walked out and chit, like, if you, if you really, if people believe that what I did was so wrong, I have made it up to society. Like, I have, this has been my life for since I got home, like as soon as I got home. So for like, almost seven years. And I've done so much and I kind of need to like, it's just too much, you know, it's just too much. Even when I just listened to the Jackie interview with, I mean, I was crying. Like, what we do to people, what our government does, I would rather go back kind of, like, I know it's like where I just didn't know. Yeah.

1:09:35It's too, it's just too, it's too much for me. Wow. You're a total empath. I love that about you. Yeah, I am. It is. Are there any things on your bucket list that separate from this whole mission that you want to be doing or going, you know, what's, what, what do you hope to do with the rest of your life then? You know, Rachel, I don't know. I haven't even, like, I just, I probably should, okay, let me take a second because I wouldn't really talk. Yeah, take a second. So this like really has been my life and I just kind of want to go back to like, just like being, seeing my friend, you know, just, you know, just being like, being like, being like, being like, being you. Yeah, like, I just, I just need a break probably and I just like, I don't really know how to, I would, I'd love to just go to LA, finish my documentary, live somewhere where the

1:10:37weather is nice year round and, you know, I'm here and it's so hot. And be carefree, maybe. I just need a little bit of a break and probably to regroup. I don't know. I always want to make a difference in the world, but I do feel like this is going to make me really sick if I don't stop. Wow. So tell people where they can find you or they can hear more about jailed for weed and and your mission. Go to my social media, a jailed for weed. Instagram is kind of where I am most active. There's an organization called Freedom Grow. I am a volunteer for them. I've been a volunteer for seven years. They are an all volunteer organization and they do amazing work. And like I said, they're all volunteer. So all the money they raise goes directly to the prisoners. And so I always like to plug them. They're good people. And yeah, you can see me at Carly Pramer, Carly with a K, Pramer with a C or at jailed

1:11:38for weed. And Rachel, I just, I want to tell you thank you because I know you like you give a lot, you in your own way, you are for social justice because I've seen who you had on. I know kind of your backstory too. And you've done like your part to make the world a better place in, in this area. And I just want to thank you for that. Thank you so much. It means a lot to me. I am always rooting for the underdog and want to do what I can, but I also love learning. Right? Like every time I have an episode like this with you, like a conversation with you with, with Dusty, who you should go listen to that episode. You know, even back to when I had the guy on who started, George, you're going to have to correct me. Medmen. Oh, yeah, yeah. So the guy who started that and then was, you know, thrown out of the business or whatever. But like all that is so enlightening to me because, you know, all these things I don't

1:12:41know a lot about, but I get to hear these side of things and they're so, they are disturbing, so much of it is disturbing. And but I love hearing your story. I love hearing, you know, what you learn from it and how there are some good parts and obviously bad parts, but how, you know, what makes you you and how that turns you into somebody who really is fighting for people that you didn't know anything about, right? You didn't know who those people were that ended up where you ended up. You were lucky that you didn't get. I'm so lucky. Yeah, that you didn't get to so many ways. Yeah. But I know that everything you do is in support of those people. And I do think you deserve this carefree break now to be able to enjoy your son, whatever happens in his life, you know, grandkids, whatever and figuring out what your happiness is. So I wish you good luck with your documentary. Of course, we'll be promoting it and looking for it. What do you have a working title for it so people can look out for it? I was probably called it jailed for weed, you know, I just think that I, that's what I always, I don't know, sometimes, you know, I will tell you the one regret I have is putting

1:13:45the word jailed and need it in my title because it gets flagged all the time. And it is what it is. So I will, but I think probably just jailed for weed. Okay. And it's close. I just need to take the time and instead of focusing on people, focus on that. Yeah. Amazing. All right. Well, I wish you the best of luck and we are here for you. I hope that if anyone has questions or wants to reach out to our, please reach out to her on DM on her Instagram, right? You read so much. If you've enjoyed today's episode, don't let it end here. Our Patreon community has become one of my favorite parts of misunderstood. It's where I can become more personal answer your questions, share what's really happening behind the scenes and continue conversations that simply don't fit into the public podcast. Whether you want bonus episodes, exclusive behind the scenes access my Palm Beach Life series monthly giveaways or even a one-on-one conversation with me, there's a membership tier that's perfect for you. I truly love to welcome you into our insider club.

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