James Milner: Record Breaker

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Hello, and welcome to the rest of his football with me, Gary Lincoln.

Today I've got a very special guest alongside me.

Someone has just broken a long standing record that was previously held by Gareth Barry.

I'm sure you've already worked out what it is of the most premier league appearances by

an individual player.

But there's a lot more to the career of James Milner than just appearances.

There's been a lot of trophies along the way as well.

Thank you, James, for coming along.

Now thanks, Aaron.

And congratulations on that remarkable achievement.

It must have been something that was in your mind towards the latter stages.

It's a weird one, really.

It was in my mind because every time I did any interviews and stuff, people asked me about it

and things like that.

But for me, it was never really something, you know, it was if you get there great.

But it wasn't it's not the reason why I'm still playing or anything like that.

It wasn't a big goal of mine, if I'm honest, you know, my mindset has never really changed

to that.

I just want to contribute to the team I'm playing for.

And, you know, after last year where I had that big injury and come really lift my foot

for six months.

Did you think that was it?

Probably.

Yeah, I understand.

I think everyone around me probably thought it was as well, to be honest, the physio and

the age I was at that point and that injury, I think that would probably not drove me

on, you know, that the unlikely hood of coming back, you know, the first thing was probably

being able to walk normally again.

And then, you know, the challenger that I used to come back from that and play Premier League

football.

And then, yeah, so I mean, it's nice to get there and be contributing this year on the

field after that for sure.

And, you know, it's in worth achieving is not easy as opposed to something that I am.

I mean, you define, do you define age, define logic in all sorts of ways in your forties,

still print Premier League football?

You're older than you, you manage your voice on the distance, is that a bit odd?

You know what?

I think there was a lot of talk about it before it came in.

He did his first team meeting within the dressing room.

Then, obviously, there's a lot of interviews and talk in the media and stuff and questions

after that.

But as soon as he had that first team meeting, his plan, how he spoke, you know, never,

ever been brought up since about the boys and stuff, I suppose it becomes an issue if

you don't have, you know, that authority, you're not, you're not, you know, if you're

not good enough at your job, I suppose it's first thing you turn around and say, you know,

where's the weakness?

All right.

It's because he's young, but because of how good he is and how hard he works and the job

is doing.

Does he lean on you a little bit as an expert?

I mean, must he be mad?

Not to, I wouldn't say.

Yeah.

He's brilliant with it to be fair.

We speak a lot.

He asks a lot of stuff.

He speaks to Welbs and Duncan and you know, the senior boys as well, but, you know, he's

in charge.

He'll ask you a lot of things.

He'll ask your opinion.

He's not always going to take it.

He'll make his own decisions and he uses the resources he has and, yeah, I have a great

relationship with him.

We speak a lot and, you know, I couldn't, he knows, I'll be completely honest with him

and he knows that I've got the, the best interests of the team at heart and, you know, I think that's

a skill in itself, obviously it's to rely and speak to your players, but ultimately he's

a manager and he'll always make the decision and I think he gets that balance, right?

You've had a remarkable career, James, I mean, you've been around for obviously a long

time to do that record, but you must be pretty proud of what you've achieved.

I think when you're in it, you don't really think too much about it.

I think you're just next to what's the next one, what's the next one, what's the aim?

I think it's one of those that you probably think about when you finish, but I think, obviously,

if you said, when I was first down at 16 to, he just said, I'd achieve an eighth of what

I have.

You'd be buzzing with it.

I think, you know, it's like when you're a kid and you just dream of playing for Leeds,

it was for me as my team and playing in the Premier League and you know, winning things

and all this sort of stuff and playing for England, it's a dream that you have and you're

helping my opponent at some point, but yeah, I've been fortunate to achieve what I have

and play with who I have and work with who I have, but yeah, I mean, it's obviously

a lot of luck on the way and a lot of hard work as well, but yeah, I mean, you're obviously

proud.

Yeah, you're known for your hard work and your attitude, where does that come from?

When I take you back to your child, you know, grew up in Leeds, obviously.

Yeah, probably in my parents, I think, you know, my mum and dad and they push your parents

or were they not re-ranging parents?

Yeah, a bit of both.

I think they knew you weren't to do both, you know, obviously, now it has been an academy

and they're not about how they have to put in and remember my mum standing on the sideline

watching me play for school in the hail and, you know, your dad rushing off and work

to take your games and watching you all over, but dad knew how to get the best out of me

and you, even then I had the mindset, I'm going to prove you wrong, so if you thought

you'd have little digs and say, oh, you've got no chance to make any that work hard enough

or, you know, you're not doing this and that.

That was how you push your parents and you knew it wasn't being horrible, you knew it,

but not okay.

And now that, all right.

You still have to know.

Yeah.

And I think that's what it comes from when I've had it all the way through, I think,

you know, you're always going to have doubt as in football, whether it's fans, media,

you know, managers, manager comes in and you have to prove yourself all over and again

and you're not in the team, it's all right, I'll, I'll show you and again, go back to

the injury last year, probably the same thing, it was like, you know, I think the physio

has said to me towards the end when I was getting closer to coming back, it was like, I

expected you two weeks and you'd be like, no, no chance, this is it, like there's no way.

Real wrong.

So I think that was a bit of a good, as well, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do

something that I think is, is pretty tough to do.

You've also got something quite unusual for a football, I saw down here, it's got 11 GCSEs.

So you're obviously smart school, good at all sports as well.

Cricket as well, aren't you?

I love cricket, yeah.

It's something about Yorkshire schools, isn't it, yeah, it's just schools.

Oh, nice, yeah.

I loved it.

Yeah, in the summer, you know, when there was no football on to go and play.

Have you still played, do you own your football career?

Never played.

The last time I played was, I think the week before I moved in at Thorntag Academy.

But what about it?

I was a wiki keeper.

I was too.

I was a batsman, but with a bit of wiki keeper.

I was probably the other way.

I mean, I opened for my club and stuff, but I was like, I was a nerdler.

I'd run it out of a certain man and, you know, I'd run two where there was only one there.

He'd do something like that.

Yeah.

But I'd bore him.

Yeah.

You say boring.

You say boring.

I really enjoyed.

I mean, you've played to that image and poke fun at yourself, self-deprecating.

I saw particularly during COVID, you're doing things like cutting the grass with scissors

and all that playing to it.

Which I think shows that you're not boring.

You know, as long as the people who know me and stuff and the boys know, you've got to

have fun with it.

Yeah.

And I think the original page is going funny.

Yeah.

I know.

I think that's a good thing.

I think you know what it's like now with the media and social media and the amount of things

you've used to do.

And the spotlight's on you constantly.

I think being caught boring means that, you know, I've kept a bit of my life and personally

if myself and my family and my friends.

And I think that's important, you know, under the spotlight so much, I think everyone gets

to see so much.

I think it's quite nice that, you know, the people don't know absolutely everything about me.

You know, I think you have to retreat into that at times as well.

So I think I think that's quite important.

So I've always tried to, you know, be honest and stuff like that in terms of media and stuff.

But I think there's a point where, you know, your family, friends, and then a part of your

life is for you because obviously there's enough cameras out there now.

And then it's on us now and it's on all the club.

And social media around when you started.

No, not really.

It's started a long time ago.

Probably any player that spans the whole of social media.

Yeah.

And I think that's why it's changing now.

I mean, when I started, it was like no fans on the bus whatsoever.

You weren't allowed going to the show.

I don't know.

I mean, you couldn't imagine that now.

Slads are using it, you know, to watch videos.

Or the might be listening to music or might be messaging, speaking to the family like,

it's a different world really now.

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One interesting thing when I was looking back,

you were a cross-country,

a bit of a cross-country champion at school,

which didn't surprise me.

But you were also a sprinter as well.

I mean, that's an unusual type of both.

And you could see that in your game.

Because most people look at what they call quick twitch or fast twitch.

Sprinters don't have stamina.

But you always had both.

Yeah.

And you know, that'll surprise a lot of people.

And at the start of my career,

I was never absolutely lying.

That was quick.

And I remember when I was 11-12 being at Leeds,

and I was a winger,

and the coach said,

you're going to have to learn a few tricks.

Because if you come up with someone as quick as you,

you're going to need that extra part to your game.

Because I just used to knock it and run.

Because I was that quick.

I feel like back then, when you played on the wing,

early parts of my career,

you did so much distance running.

And you'd be tucked right next to the fallback.

And it was just on the back.

I feel like you didn't really then have, you know,

the freshness.

Because I worked so hard without the ball and stuff.

You didn't have the freshness to fully go into that top speed.

And you get into the pattern of doing more high speed.

And I don't know if then,

from that point in your pace,

maybe goes down a little.

Who knows, really.

But yeah, I was fortunate to have both the spells.

And my dad was a pretty good cross-country runner.

And I used to enjoy that when I was younger.

And then, obviously, I have to sort of pick a lane there.

Yeah.

Can I ask,

do you feel you're a bit older now?

Can you tell any difference?

Because most of us,

it happens certainly in my day.

And your early 30s,

and you suddenly go,

well,

someone run past me,

I'm not as quick as I was.

And then,

and then it all ends.

But can you feel a difference yet?

Or,

I mean,

I think so.

Yeah, I think because,

you know,

I was always,

because you're not playing every game now,

because five years ago,

you and this team,

you'd be playing every game, wouldn't you?

Yeah, I have a thing like,

you know,

I only play the cup,

and then I 30 and a half,

K in a game and stuff like that.

I'm playing in the eight now.

I'm playing the six,

and it's a lot different type of runner.

I think the weekend may be covered 12k.

So,

you're like,

that's poor.

I don't.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a different position,

but, yeah,

you know, it's things in the game,

but also,

you have your brain,

and experience,

so you gain a yard in that.

So, I think,

depending on position,

if you're asking me to play on the wing or eight,

you know,

I'd probably notice it more,

but as a six,

you know,

you're plugging gaps,

you're reacting off of the people,

and one game away,

you know,

I definitely can't play

every three days,

like you used to,

you know, that's,

it definitely,

that's where you feel it most,

I think,

recovering after a game,

you know,

when you're playing Champions League and stuff,

it's Saturday Tuesday,

Saturday Tuesday,

like, there's no break,

then you're in a national football,

whereas now,

yeah,

you definitely feel,

you know,

it used to be two days of the worst day,

and you know,

then it just gets a bit longer.

Yeah,

you mentioned there,

you play as a six,

you play on eight,

you play on wide,

I mean,

the thing with you is

you can play multiple positions.

You started,

obviously,

playing on the right,

mostly,

I mean, I did a thing years ago,

you possibly remember,

I actually apologise to you,

because I said,

and I phrased it very badly,

I said,

I'm not quite sure what James Milner is,

and I meant,

positionally,

but it got read as,

as a player,

as a footballer,

and stuff like that.

So,

and I,

apologise.

Yeah, once again for that.

But,

do you think perhaps

that you're so good

in so many positions

that in some way,

it's worked against you a little bit

in terms of,

you mentioned the international break,

in terms of,

perhaps England

and international football,

because, you know,

Jack of all trades,

Master of None,

I would say you're,

Master of many trades,

personally,

but it perhaps works against you.

I've seen it with other players

in my time,

that he could play anywhere,

and then,

he ends up with 17 England caps,

and he was a better player than that.

Yeah, I think,

both.

I think there's times,

obviously, where it works,

you're advantageous,

because you can play a different position,

you're included in the squads,

and,

and you may be on the pitch,

and because you can play different roles,

and if the manager needs to tweak tactics in a game,

you know,

he can do that without making a substitute.

So, I think,

it works in your advantage sometimes.

But yeah,

I think probably with England,

as I'll for sure,

I feel that probably,

hampered me a bit,

and...

Did you get fed up with England?

We get a bit disillusioned.

And I played...

Under 21's football,

from very young,

and then went straight to the senior.

Well, you're still the record holder

to the most under 21.

So, I've done, I think,

12 years without missing very few games.

12 years in a row,

21's and seniors.

I did two World Cup's two euros,

played at the first World Cup and first euros,

and didn't really feature the next two,

and Roy was manager,

and he left,

and Big Sam Kevin.

And I was thinking about it,

because,

you know, I was going to be involved and stuff,

but I was always like, you know,

maybe 12 to man,

things like that.

And, you know,

a good tourist,

and that's fine,

but am I blocking a place for someone

who he's going to come through and play?

So, I had a conversation with Sam,

and said, look,

I'm not going to tease that, you know.

Did you have another conversation

with the next manager month later?

I had a phone call, yeah.

Yeah.

So, that was the thing,

so obviously, if Sam come in,

and I was like, right, I'll retire,

and then he was going to get out of the rung me,

said, you know,

I'd like you to be involved,

saying it'd be good for us.

And it was,

if he'd have said that

the month before,

and he'd have been the manager,

I think I'd have probably carried on playing.

Yeah.

But at once, I've sort of been my mind up,

that was sort of it.

And I thought, right,

well, I've done it.

Is there a stubble thing?

You regretted it at all or not?

No, I've never regretted it was.

No.

And I think that's because

it was my decision.

And I think other plays, you know,

you play for England,

and then, you know, you get phased out,

and you get left out,

and that's maybe taken away from you.

Whereas because it was my decision,

and maybe because I had that second chance,

and I stuck to doing the decision I'd met,

maybe that's why I haven't missed it.

And, you know,

because I was fortunate

to have my decision,

and for sure,

I won't be playing now

if I've carried on with England,

and I don't think,

because obviously that's prolonged,

my club career.

So, you know,

it's not an easy decision for sure.

But I don't think I regretted it once, really.

Even when England was flying and doing well,

you want them to do well.

But I didn't feel, you know,

I was sure as well.

I was just,

yeah, just decision I met,

which I thought was right for me,

and right for the team, really.

You talked about England there.

Well, we'll stick on England for a bit,

and then I'll go to your club career,

which is obviously exceptional.

Your debut was given to Mike Palo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What was he like?

Because he was a bit slightly controversial

around that World Cup in 2010.

There was, for everyone said,

it was, you know, boring camp.

Yeah.

I mean, that was my first World Cup.

Yeah, that was my first World Cup.

I mean, if you've golfed, you're all right.

Yeah.

And, you know, I was like,

I'm not a World Cup.

I don't really care.

Like, when I play football,

that was my mindset around it.

And, you know, the FA,

how they set things up to do unbelievable things,

and I think they've gone to the next level again,

and you see how St. George's was set up for the tournament,

and the things the players had to do basketball, you know,

golf sims and stuff.

Yeah.

But maybe because I'd done under 21st tournaments and stuff,

I did three cycles of going with the under 21st,

trying to qualify,

and we lost in the final and the semifinal.

So I was used to doing tournaments,

and that's what England youth is about,

again, used to that.

So when you hopefully get through.

Why did you need such a long time to be called up for England?

Because, obviously, you were breaking records

in terms of appearances at age,

you were 16 when you made your first team debut for Leeds.

Was Terry Vanimoltz?

Yeah, Terry Vanimoltz.

I couldn't love Terry.

And then it was quite a few years later,

until you called up.

I think it was because, generally,

my age probably went against me in terms of I could play

for the 21st.

There's quite a few times I was one or the other

and the said, alright, we'll pick him and you go with the 21st.

Yeah.

And that's what kept happening.

I remember when I met my debut, Stuart Pierce,

I think was assistant at the time,

and he'd have me at the 21st,

and he'd call me down from the line.

He said, hurry up and get you kicked off before he changes his mind

because he knew how long I'd waited to make my debut.

I think it was Holland the way.

Yeah, what was it like when you get that?

Did you get that call from Capello?

Or how did it come about?

To the scene.

To the first time with it.

I think I'd been on standby a couple of times

or I'd traveled.

I think we traveled Kazakhstan away

or something I wasn't on the bench.

So it wasn't my first time in the squad.

Oh, yeah.

But it was the first time getting on yet.

And obviously, you've been with the 21s for so long

and playing in the Premier League.

And like you say, you see some players come through now

and the players six, seven, eight games

and they're in the England squad and all that.

I think I was seven years, six, six years, six, seven years.

Seven years in.

When I met England only,

which you fail if someone had played in the Premier League

for a long time now, it may be different.

But yeah, obviously it was just, you know,

is it ever going to happen really?

And then eventually managed to make my debut

and make an impact in that game.

I think I set Jemaine to fill up for a goal

and we came back from losing,

being behind and then from that point

I was in England, squad really,

and managed to go to the World Cup and actually...

What was Capello like?

It wasn't everyone's cup of tea, was he?

No, I mean, it was intense.

He was quite strict with rules and things like that.

You know, the other explosion out of nowhere

in terms of motion and stuff.

But, you know, I think it made players

not wary, but, you know,

you need that fair factor as a manager, don't you?

Yeah.

I think and, you know,

getting my England debut and, you know, very...

I think he wanted to convert me into a fallback quite early.

I remember him saying to me one time,

he said, I think you'd be a world-class fallback

and at that point I was very interested in that book.

At that point, if I ask you now, what do you think?

What do you think is...

If you had one position to play,

what do you think your best position would be?

If you were starting again now and knew everything that you knew now,

and you said one position and that you probably played

a million games for England.

Yeah.

What would it be?

I'd probably say in the middle just because I'd say

if you look at my individual season, my best season was probably

when I was a villa and scored most goals and assisted in my career that year.

I won PFA Young Player of the Year, got me into the England squad,

moved to a city.

Times when I played at Liverpool in the middle consistently as well.

I had a lot of assists in the year-op league when you had a lot of assists

in the Champions League in the year.

So I think my energy and just being involved in the game,

and I think that's probably why I can play different positions

and I think that helps you understand of the game.

It's probably the middle of a three,

probably not as a two getting on the ball,

but making runs and when you look at some of the plays,

unfortunately, you're like a David Silver and stuff.

You can play the most ridiculous run.

I don't think anyone ever really thinks of me as creative,

but my crossing was always okay.

I wasn't really bothered about scoring myself.

You played quite well.

You're on the right way if I remember right then.

When you cram pole and when we got shot,

don't beat Italy and you whips and great balls in.

I remember joining those few games.

That was unfortunate losing the penalty shootout, wasn't it?

Yeah, I'd been brawl for that point,

so I didn't get a chance to say one or four.

Because you had definitely been a penalty take.

Because you've taken the ball,

because you've taken quite a few.

Yeah, I've probably started.

I mean, I took them at the England under 21s

and then Villa used to take them.

It's a bit harder to get on them.

I think I took a few there,

but obviously when you've got your agueros

and your Yaya Torres and stuff,

there's a bit of a packing order and Yaya's a bit bigger than me.

I think I managed to take one or two there

and then Liverpool took quite a few.

Yeah, I think it's a mental thing.

It's practice and mental battle most of the time.

It wasn't one of them on that occasion

and you're on the bench unfortunately by that stage.

You're bringing forward, really.

Just ask your opinion on the current England setup.

I mean, there's hell of a lot of talented young footballers

at the moment.

Where do you think England is?

Can they possibly do well in this World Cup?

I mean, we're long overdue.

Of course, we can't.

I should see it happening in our lifetime.

Yeah.

That's how I really want to be chucking out, you know,

big bold predictions and things like that.

Having more pressure.

But you can't be the one.

You know what it's like.

And you know what it's like in terms of anyone says anything

and people jump on it and the pressure builds even more.

There's enough pressure on the boys,

but you lock it at the quality of players you are

throughout the squads.

It's great to see and you look at how good the youth levels.

That's normally a good gauge of, you know,

the groups that come in through and they've won trophies as well.

So the more, I think the more trophies you win under 19s,

under 21s, things like that, you know,

they're getting used to winning.

That it's normal for them.

Which has never really happened before.

No.

That's probably.

No.

Always seem to be close and things like that.

Like I say, are we lost in a final and we lost in a semi-final

13-12 on penalties?

Yeah.

13-12.

They went around twice.

Tell me you scored both of you.

I did.

Yeah, I did.

You wouldn't mention them.

Yeah, we lost in the end.

But yeah, it was.

So you close, but now I say, Guy, you know,

do you have a England or whatever you want to say?

I feel like there's been a shift in that.

And I feel like the success of English teams is important that as well.

I think being used to not use to any trust,

but, you know, have the experience of winning trophies.

And those big occasions,

playing massive games and you've got players playing at Real Madrid,

under that pressure and in that cauldron.

And the pressure it takes to play at those clubs,

can only stand in good stead for going into World Cups for sure as well.

So, you know, we have a chance to win it.

That's how you can have fun.

A realistic one of that and a lot of good quality plays.

You need a bit of luck.

And you need a bit of luck with injuries and things like that.

But yeah, I think so.

I hope so.

Please help me.

Before I pop my clogs, hopefully.

Let me take you back to the start you create.

Tell us about you, you know,

Terry Venables gave you your debut.

You were 16 years old.

And it brings me just,

we've seen this weekend.

And we, a young man score.

And the youngs player to score a Premier League goal.

What do you think of him?

He looks a bit hasty.

He's done a game.

You don't want to build these,

the youngs just do a lot too much.

You can tell when someone's,

you can tell it carries the ball and takes it.

And you know,

it's little things about his personality

and FaceTime and Declan Rice and things like that.

The right sort of people to be faced on.

Yeah.

And, you know, it takes a bit of,

you need a bit about you to do things like that.

And, you know,

you know,

the best players have that right sort of arrogance.

Especially on the field.

And we played them alone in the year.

And just how we received the ball is touches, confidence.

Long way ago,

obviously,

and like I say,

I hate piling pressure on people.

But yeah, for sure,

it looks like a special player.

And, you know,

he's not coming into any team either.

He's coming into a team who's.

I know, that's it.

You've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

you've got,

it's not in that training.

It doesn't stand out in training first and foremost.

You know, as it got,

how's it got chances to be doing it there at that age.

It was like that.

Hi, and your turn.

I am going to talk about your career.

But let's take a break first.

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This episode is brought to you by Woop.

In the modern game, of course, there are a lot more games, and that feeling of being slightly

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This segment is brought to you by SpekSafe's best worst team, the series that takes the worst

football team in the country and tries to turn their fortunes around on and off the pitch.

This year, it's Wally FC in Brentwood who picked up just four points in the league last season.

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In the end, it came down to fitness, so he's called someone up who doesn't let standard

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Here is James.

What's it like coaching at that level, having played 23 years in the Premier League?

Yeah, it's different.

My session was more about fitness, that's what makes me quite an idiot.

I tried to tell the boys it was his idea, because if you're coming in and the first thing

you have them do is a bleep test and stuff like that, you're not going to be the favourite

coach.

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Were they responsive?

They had a good go to the feather majority, a few fake to hamstring, pretty early and stuff

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Yeah, I think it actually had a ham move, but a few weren't quite deep when we did a

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wins at that level.

Do you think there were quite a surprise at the difference between your level of fitness

and theirs?

No, I think they know, I think they know, you know, when they're going out and I've

got a cup of up for it more than night for a game, but now the preface isn't the best

and they're just having fun with it really, but I think they can have those games if

they want them, but you know, it's just about enjoying it.

Were any of them eager though to learn?

They had to go, like I say, we did the press up challenge, a few completed it, we did

a bleep test and one lad did particularly well, we did some shooting, you know what, there's

some quality in terms of the crossing and stuff and they're playing, there's some really

good balls and some good finishes and then you get the other end of the spectrum, the

surprisingly that way and then on the other end of the spectrum, they keep going over

the fence and they've got to run around the game because they've only got so many balls

and stuff, like managers going mad, but it was good fun and a good bunch.

When or maybe I should say if you hang your Premier League boots up, would you fancy a game

for Wally?

Yeah, I think so.

I'll go down.

So you're getting the team.

I don't know.

I have to maybe obviously on the right and if it's a bleep test session, I'll feel

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But yeah, we'll see and sounds like the nights out are pretty eventful so it might be good

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Sounds good.

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Saber's best worst team on YouTube.

Welcome back to the rest of the football with me, Gary Ennickr and James Milner was joining

me in my kitchen and today, James, you've talked about how long your career was and it did

start, Leeds.

Was that the club you sported as a lad?

Yeah, it was.

And like you just said before about England winning a World Cup, I remember my dad throwing

me around the living room when Leeds won the league title, 91-92 and he said enjoy it

my baby, the only time you ever see it, unfortunately it's been right up to this point.

I played against him, yeah.

Yeah, and Leeds is like it's a great place to play football and so after that we got

season ticket and started going to the games and then ended up at the academy and ball

boy and things like that.

So it was always my turn.

How did you find Terry Vernon?

I mean, I'd actually forgotten that he went to Eats, I mean, he looked at Middlespritz

one at one point and he said, I mean, he was, I mean, I loved him but what was a young

man still?

He was unbelievable, I think, because we weren't flying at the time, so to have the confidence

to believe in a 16 year old and put me in, I remember he put me in and he used to tell

me to keep working on my technique because obviously not only at the academy now, so you

know, do that work on the afternoon and little nuggets of advice and little things in

your position and how he handled me, I remember playing a couple of games and then he would

play in Spurs away, actually, at White Island and he pulled me in the day before I traveled

and said, you haven't done anything wrong, you're not going to be playing, I just don't

want to throw a shoe in too soon, I said, fine, went out training, someone got injured,

traveled, travel wasn't on the bench, someone got injured in the warm up and don't be

in on the bench getting on, assisting a goal, I did quite well and then from that point

I was in, but leaving that management and awareness of doing that, but then I had that look

that I get to about, and you had the record at that point that mixed down was just

good.

I was going, I've been the youngest player ever to school, yeah, I remember, I remember

doing it just before and then he came to Ellen Road and I was in the squad, but I wasn't

on the bench and I remember sitting next to the fitness coach Steve McGregor and he scored

a great goal at Ellen Road as well, just after and he could see me and he was like, you're

desperate to get involved there, he won pubs, he wasn't back and he obviously just blew

up and then I got my chance and scored a couple of goals around that Christmas and just

nicked it off in by a few days or something, I think it was, I read something as well when

I was looking at, by the time you were 23, you played for 13 different managers as they

were then rather than coaches, that's bonkers.

Yeah, and you got a grow up quick and you learn a lot about football and I think it was,

I know it was the first time I started and finished a season with the same manager and

that was probably, yeah, and that was what, six, six years into my career, so you're probably

going to bang on and a lot into character, I've worked with him a lot on television.

Brilliant, excellent, great, no, I don't have to speak into his story, yeah, I love playing

for mine, he was so good for me and gave me that confidence and pushed me into the middle

of the park and I love playing for mine, yeah, and you know, I think he got the unwimmy

a bit when I left and went to Man City, but hopefully it's all right with me now.

Well come to Man City in a bit, but I want to pop back to Newcastle, just Bobby Robson

as well, another former England manager there, I mean, what a man, obviously, legend

at that particular football club and English football, I would say as well, much loved.

How was Bobby with you?

Incredible, I mean, I would just felt unfortunate for him, I'm Terry not to work with him for

longer, I think, so Bobby got sat probably two or three games into that season and started

up first couple of games, but just that time with him straight away and even like him

into that, similar how the after training, the take you over and you do a little thing

and then set it up with plays in your position and you'd receive, you're going to get the

ball here and you know, your options left foot around the corner into the front one and

follow it all this and just create the pictures and patterns that you're going to get in the

games and just knew what you needed, like little tips about crossing and things like that

and you don't get that as much now, like when I'm watching like coaching stuff, it's

a lot about the team and things like that.

Two more robotics, do you think now possible?

Because you've, I mean, you've, you've lived the last two decades playing, it's changed

a lot.

I feel like maybe that individual, I feel when you get to the first team, you're expected

to not apply and I suppose with young players coming in, you know, little technique things

and little patterns and it's all obviously videos and drones in training and seeing it

on videos and stuff.

Sometimes.

What video there were?

Yeah, exactly.

And now it's like, you know, there you'd like feeling it and they use drones do they?

Yeah, we've got drones up there and so then different angles and so they've got fixed

cameras and then you've got drones so they can see it from a different angle.

The audio in place now is that.

Oh, no.

So yeah, under the app was right next to our training ground as well, so they've got to

be careful.

I'm cracking it.

But yeah, yeah, they've got it all and then it's clipped and they can do a meeting straight

after training.

Yeah.

After you training session, you've just done.

So it's great, but you know, football isn't always, you know, the can freeze frame and say

you should have done this at the moment and it's like, well, yeah, but my touch wasn't

great.

I had a bubble or I've got 0.3 of a second to react on this and you're freeze frame

in it with a space bar and looking at the whole picture.

It's not easier that way.

Yeah, exactly.

But when it actually happened in real time, there's advantages and disadvantages, you know,

and I'm sure you find it easier like the studio and watching stuff and then afterwards

you say, when you're playing, you know, you've got split seconds to get you shot off

or you haven't even been out of the answer to the goal is, you know, you know, goal

score is like, self, you've got never most, does it, sir?

Well, the goal doesn't move, but, you know, the goal, yeah, well, talking of that move

actually.

Well, talking to one of those, Alan Shiro, co-hosted this, this podcast, this is Michael,

both played with him.

Yeah.

Of course, spill the dirt on him, please.

Which one?

Well, let's start with Owl.

Er, no, I mean, I'll, I'll when I went in, you know, I was the use of a hero, man, really

as well.

You know, like, yeah, but growing up and watching, you know, you're a night six and that

was a massive tournament in England and being in England, and going up to Newcastle and

the personalities that were in that dressing room at the time, and, you know, him and Speed

L, Shay Given and people like that.

I remember going on preseason tour to the far east and, you know, Shiro Mania was just

like, really?

Oh, don't.

Oh, don't.

All overweight.

Thank God he's not weird.

That was an ironer for me, and like, the first time you've been abroad and seen the hype

and how we dealt with that expectation and pressure and polite to everyone and things

like that.

I think that was a good lesson for me in terms of that.

And then, you know, he was coming tomorrow to the end of his career when I got up there,

but, you know, watching him finish in and giving his own preseason.

That's the one I always remember.

Like, we were running and we used to do beach, we used to do forest runs and we used to

do runs at the training ground.

He didn't have long runs.

He didn't do it.

I mean, just tried around pitch with the physio, like terrible example, one mile an hour,

and then when the balls come out, because the balls didn't come out for the first two

of the week, did it?

So about a couple of weeks before the first game, we'd come out and start banging those

and that was a shame.

I mean, that's a modification now, and you see that all the time now, but that was how

he did it, you know?

He said a young player get away with that way.

He was not a young player.

He was not a young player.

I mean, I think he earned it right.

I think he earned it right.

Yeah, to be honest, yeah.

I haven't got a lot on him to be fair over them.

Well, I'm not doing pre-season, but that is age.

No, that'll do.

Unfortunately, I share that with him.

Yeah, I suck up.

And when you get older, we all end up doing that.

No, exactly.

Manchester City, you, that was when it all kind of really started happening at City, wasn't

it?

That change you were supposed to saw it through to it, not to its complete conclusion,

but you were at the start of it.

Could you see things that were going to change and it happened?

Yeah.

So I think at that point, out of the chance of going to Chelsea, maybe, I think you had

the chance of doing it too.

Yeah.

And why don't you choose City?

Because of what you just said.

I feel like Chelsea had been successful on one trophies and Man City.

I hadn't for a very long time.

And I thought, you know, I'd be great to start that and be part of that and win trophies

there.

And, you know, that was the main decision really, and went there and was fortunate enough

to be part of.

And, you know, the first one, the FA Cup was huge winning that, I think, then, you know,

what it's like when you win a trophy together and it gives you that confidence and that's

the platform, then, for everything that comes after that, but you have to get out of

the line on that first one.

And the semi-finals, the huge game against United, I think, and then it's great past stoking

the final and got that first trophy.

And then after that, it was a way of running.

But yeah, you could see.

What was your line when you first joined?

Did you go, I remember talking to Vincent Kumpney about this and he said, he didn't even

have a coffee machine, right?

It was like, it was like, it was like, it was a little bit skimple.

It was, it's been absolutely made into this.

I think, obviously, it's still at Carrington and making the best of that scenario, making

it as good as the could.

But obviously, it wasn't like the training ground they have now and you've got 30 million

pound players coming in through the door every opportunity and competition for places

and then, you know, the success on the pitch grows and you get the new training ground

and you see things and they've always tried to do things, obviously, with the ground

and the development around the stadium and that area and the training ground and, you know,

by the New York City Football Club and you're involved in the launch of that and we went

over and did the launching that.

So you just see it grow a bit by bit and how they did things and it was exciting and

tough at the same time, like you say, you know, every single window there's going to be

players coming in and they're not getting them for free, they're getting for a big chunk

of money and they're going to start and, you know, you're under pressure before.

We were the players that you just love playing with because they brought in over those

years.

I mean, David, I think he's one that stands out for me, David Carlos, when I got that

incredible Carlos Tevers, Sergio Aguero, I mean, there was one season I remember him starting

the season, like unbelievable, I'm sure he just scored 50-60 goals I year for the state

for it.

I didn't do it, but how he started the season.

He was another one that wasn't necessarily a great trainer, like you said.

Oh, awful, yeah.

Oh, awful.

Didn't even tie his boots or anything, yeah, just strolled out, like, but I can't get

me head around how someone can train like that.

And then on the match day, how sharp he was, like, how quick he was to turn in his finishing,

it was incredible, but, yeah, he was, I mean, he was incredible, Vinny, I mean, Meeks, we

had the, we had a great call that we had a great call of, you know, how he was there.

Yeah.

Vinny was brilliant captain, so organised, I'm not surprised I was doing as a manager,

and Meeks, obviously, you know, what was he, what, I mean, we do know what he's like

to a degree.

What was the young, like, a Richard time lively, energetic, and I said the young one,

no, no, no, no, that's the same.

Took a while to get back and I just used to get the ball on the wing and I did this,

mills, I'm coming in, and it'd be like a steam train down outside, I mean, a slide

in, and he used to do this crosswear, he crossed it, and then flume self off the onto

floor for whatever, he's like a swan dive, so then what did I have to do, obviously,

track back and fill in for him, and like two minutes later, he'd drop back and get

in, Meeks, you're all right now, yeah, I'm good, all right, thanks, I'll go back into

my position now.

Did he, did he draw your answer in there?

Yeah, but I mean, I was always in supposed for the people that do that.

Yeah, he was on, when he overlapped though, in the air, he was unstoppable.

Yeah.

I mean, I played in the game, I think, where he scored, I was at Villa, and he scored

his first goal, and he swore twice, and he didn't go out first.

Oh, in the interview, yeah, I was on the list, I think I was on the line, I think,

when he ended it in, yeah, he dropped the F-bomber couple of times, but yeah, it

really had great fun.

Like, Meeks is such a great guy, and love playing with him, like, so he was unstoppable,

if he could just fill in for his rest periods, and he was great to play with him, would

he try and avoid that at all?

Yeah, I don't remember drinking loads on a night out, because I think he knew he could

get a bit out of hand, but, you know, I was normally the one not drinking, so I could

look after the boys, hi, he was always great value as well in the dressing room, but on

a night as well, just kept everyone involved, didn't matter who it was, and I think that's

why David Silverfitting so well as well, he had a number, we were in LA, I think, on

pre-season, and he joined in with the boys, couldn't speak a lot of English, but he just sat

there, and maybe have a siesta, if all boys were together, have a little siesta, then

he'd get involved again, couldn't understand the lot what was going on, but then I just

didn't know what to say about that.

Yeah, and the amazing thing with him was, like, he'd chop through four guys and make a

pass through the I have an eagle and make an assist, and he'd come after he'd get me

to say to me, and hi, did you see my tackle?

I was like, well, and all he was bothered about is like a shoulder, a shoulder, or a tackling

point, and he was like, yeah, I want my bow.

That just shows you these incredibly talented technical Spanish players, they just want

to be like us.

Well, that's really not people.

And he just showed, he's one of the guys, you see, he wanted to, he was like, do you

see my tackle?

No, I saw you absolutely running the show, but great, great lad as well, but what a player

won't you?

So I was helping make sure it's going to be air, actually, because where it goes, working.

Yeah, it goes back a long way.

So on my 17th birthday, we played Arsenal at Ellen Road, and I loved Henri, you know,

at that time.

He's probably one of the best players I've ever seen, for me, who's incredible, I've

never seen them.

He gave me a shirt, he's yellow, a waist shirt, from that game.

And then at some point in the house mood and stuff, I always wanted to, the house ended

up getting friends.

I've got them all framed, and in moves or whatever it is, or someone's taking it, but

this shirt's gone missing.

So I must be five, five years ago, at least, I said to me, so I was like, because he

worked through the night time, so there was a favor, told him the story, says, would you

mind getting another teary shirt for me?

It's like, yeah, no problem, no problem.

Still on got it.

Message didn't make millions, still on millions, the times I've messaged him, how much

am I coming in?

He claims to be Gary's best mate.

I don't think he speaks to him, yeah.

He just, they just worked together on seeing who he is, that's all it is.

And he sent me voice notes before I'm sending my message saying, oh, he's actually in

the post office, and he'll send me a voice note before I'm down the phone, he's laughing

like, everyone's there.

You're listening, aren't training, everyone says, aren't I, look, see, er, mic up, get

it done.

Any chance, mate?

Yeah, absolutely.

I found a quote from Micra, actually talking about you, he said, there were times that

season at the early days, when things were not going well, and he said, James was one

of the people who kept us going, leader, do you feel like you're a leader?

Do you, I mean, I would say watching you, you know?

Yeah.

I'll send an example for sure.

I feel probably the last ten years or so, for sure, I feel like it myself, but there's

been things said in stories told recently where I've forgotten it or didn't really realise

it when I was a bit younger, when you're first going to the city and when you're at

villain stuff like that.

And I was still a young player there, so in your own head, but when you think about

I was fortunate that I started at 16, by the time you 23, you've played seven years,

so if you come through at 21, you're 28, you're seeing your player, I was 23, when I

wasn't the senior player, so I suppose that probably helped, you know, you try and say examples

and things like that.

I remember having to hold me back with a fight with Mario on one occasion, and each, you

know when he goes, he's like something you take so it's really good.

He takes some stopping.

But yeah, when you get older and you see your role and you're thinking more about the

team than yourself necessarily, and that probably at sea, I think like I said, Vinny was such

a good example and you had Gareth Barron people like that, like great lads and you always

try and learn.

Did you say to Gareth one day I'm going to beat your record?

No, to be fair, I'm going to set it by that either, so.

And Gareth is one of those players like, unless you watch him and see him in play, we can

make out.

I don't think you've got to.

This is better players.

Never mind the amount of appearances.

This is better.

Yeah, you're too modest.

You think so.

Yeah, he was, we're a completely different players, we're different players, but I think

you could not read you a quote about you from which I love this quote from Manuel Pellegrini.

It was manager obviously with you at City, he said, show me another who does all the things

that Milner does well.

There isn't one.

It's very difficult to find another Milner, an intelligent player with big balls and a

massive heart.

You speak Spanish, don't you?

Yeah.

Coconis grandis.

I did read that you learnt Spanish, but you know, you didn't play in Spain or anything

like that.

No, I did, so I did.

I did.

I did.

I did.

I did.

I did.

I did.

So you can teach your kids?

I mean, it wasn't the cost of that.

He was a city, really.

I used to sit on a table with Hi, Zabaleta and David, and I've got a place in Spain, and

I thought it was impressive when people could speak different languages, so I got a teacher

and learn, and then it was good for me to speak to the Spanish guys.

And every time I got a new sign in, it was great for me to practice, but also help

them have another person to help settle in, really, and then...

Ablaz, Ablaz, Bien, or?

Puedo, Ablaz, Pocosy.

No, you've got to practice a car mask, Pedro, see?

I'm a saturday to learn to register, come on, in Spanish.

I've sent in, I've sent in.

But great stuff.

Obviously, you played Pellegrini and Mancini when there were probably opposites, actually.

I've got a lot of people, completely opposite, one very explosive, emotional, the other one

was a lot more calm, methodical, how he did things, both managed to win a title, so

yeah, I mean, you know, the one obviously with the aguero, if you wrote a movie plot and

you said this is what's going to happen, you'd be like, no, that's not going to happen,

it's not going to be realistic, re-write it.

Was that the most euphoric feeling?

Yeah, imagine a ball on a football pitch.

You know what, it's like when you lose a cut finals bad enough, and it's a one-off game

to win a league title, you have to be the best, the best team always wins a league, regardless.

38 games, home and away, injuries, suspensions, ups and downs, the best team always wins it.

So you think how bad it is to lose a cut final, a one-off game, to throw away a whole season

in a home game you should probably win and do all the work we've done to get to that

point where, you know, we're flying, then we had to slip out in January, and then I think

you know, it slipped up at home in a game, and we were on a bus going somewhere and

Colour over at it, I don't know, kept saying the score to get in the score, I think it was

ever nothing.

We're going to have to fall all the way down or something in there, and then we had to

be united and we beat them, and then we had to win the last five or six games or something

like that, and you've done all that work and you get to the last stepping stone to fail,

and then you're going to injury time and to score from being that low.

I mean, it's done.

It was done?

Yeah, yeah, it was incredible.

I mean, that low to that high in three minutes is the feeling that it's scabbling around.

It was probably as much relief as anything else that not blind it was, isn't it?

I would, yeah, 100% at that point, and I think like I said, yeah, we've done all this

work, amazing comeback after the results and then to be that close, but yeah, I would

say relief was a massive part of it, but yeah, I mean, that's the moment you love about

football.

Thank God we didn't have VAR because, you know, imagine waiting on a VAR check on something

like that.

You're on VAR.

We don't very often get the chance to talk to current players about VAR.

Yeah.

Is it as frustrating for you as it is for fans and people like myself who love the game

forever?

And if you're fully honest, I absolutely hate it.

I hate it.

I think you know, I do the days where you still look across the field.

I think nearly everyone's with you.

Well, I ask a lot of the players as well, and I love a vote because I've moved to

an Armani at current players.

If you've heard fans and players who actually keep it, I think that our players have asked

very, very few.

You know, look across the lines, man, there's his flag up or down there, it's a goal.

And you know, you think some of the amazing moments like that, I imagine, with it just

nice.

You know, we need to look at it and you go in the whole ground.

Yeah.

Football's an emotional game.

Like it's referees, a referee in the game, different, like the humans, they're going

to make mistakes, plays make mistakes, manager make mistakes.

They all make mistakes.

Yeah.

Exactly.

They're still making mistakes when you're looking at and slowing it down.

Yeah, it was because you've got a lot of decisions.

So that's my, that's my, I think it'd be a better, better game and you watch the championship

now when it doesn't have it and if they put ties and you, you know, the flow of the game

and the excitement, it just, it just feels better for me.

Yeah.

That's my opinion.

Liverpool, how did that come about?

Yeah, it was, one of that was where I wanted to stay at Man City.

Yeah.

And I thought, believe me, obviously, why would you?

You know, we talked about a new contract.

You know, they didn't come, they often didn't come for quite a while.

And then when it came, it was a pay cut in the fact.

Did you, did you feel like they weren't 100% behind us?

That's the feeling I got really until the very end.

Did that hurt a bit?

Oh, I mean, it was just a place I was.

You know, I played every position for every year.

They signed a play in my position.

And I started the season out of the team and I had to find my way back.

And then I always back myself and played well and October November.

I'd be back in playing again.

And then we did the whole thing over again.

So it was one of those and I thought, well, the next transfer when no comes

and you get close to the end of the year contracting, you think, well,

maybe I should look somewhere else and Liverpool come on.

Obviously, incredible football club.

And there's a similar feeling to when I went to see, you know,

an amazing club, not one, too many trophies in recent history.

We obviously picked them to that title of the year.

We won it the second time we sit in Liverpool so close.

And he just felt, can you, if you can go out of Liverpool and win a league title,

you know, and their first Premier League, it'd been so long since I won a league title.

It's clubable.

Was your club a pull?

He wasn't there.

No, when he signed.

It was a random Kevin other chat and spoke to me and how he saw me fitting in.

And yeah, I thought, yeah, let's, let's go for it really.

And again, it was a long way off achieving what they went on to achieve

at the point you, you've come in, they've been close to an league title

for a few years after the struggle to beat.

And Stevie just gone.

That's right.

So obviously the end of that season and the slip, you know,

while Stevie was like, yeah, as a player, I think he's last game

that they've got lost quite heavily to Stoke as a last game.

What do you be one of the best players that you played?

Oh, the best club.

Yeah, I'm with England, but all rounders and all round.

Yeah, could do everything.

Yeah, he was, he was incredible.

I think for sure.

It was the best player you played with or against or both.

Against Messi.

Messi, yeah.

Comfortable.

Yeah, without doubt.

It's just a different planet.

Didn't he not make you, doesn't he?

Yeah, the new coach, sorry to bring that up.

No, I mean, you're not the only one.

He didn't score from it.

He was on the halfway line.

Oh, right.

And my legs are so bowed.

If it not make him in the close, so.

But I mean, when the grain of the French, the ball tied legs, yeah,

he didn't done a bit of the ball.

What is he like to actually play games?

If you're up against him because I mean, like watching from the stands,

he does stuff that is actually incomprehensible.

It's impossible.

He's like he's from another.

He's an IMA.

I mean, he can dribble.

You know, probably no ways to go.

And he wants to go in the left foot, cast off him.

He's got three around him.

He's dribbling as fast with the ball, even faster with the ball than he wouldn't without.

You have three men around him.

And he still knows as the guy over it and he slips it through to him.

I mean, when we played against him and special Liverpool games,

we tried to make it not be on way.

You know, I'm roughly sorry.

There's a big game, a bit of night.

They odd shoulder charge here and there.

She can't let the best of it around my corner.

Otherwise, they'll do what they want.

I'm not so sorry to respect for sure.

But yeah, he's unbelievable play.

Unbelievable.

And then you look at the other players out around and play against him.

Javi and then yesterday.

Because Laura's a Nema.

All the best.

Yeah.

What about the best play you played with for a period of time?

Because you play with some, I mean, you've already mentioned David Silver

and you know, Jaya Torre and what you played.

Obviously, with some greats at Liverpool as well, you know, most salar.

Yeah.

Bobby Firmino.

I mean, so many great players.

It is such a tough question.

It's so unlike you asked to do your best elevens and five side times.

Well, stuff and I hate you, isn't it?

Because you're just going to annoy me.

Because you're going to leave someone out.

Yeah, I've got to leave someone out.

There's only the week.

I mean, Mike Firmino.

He really upset.

Yeah, he's not going to leave me.

He's there for team bonding and he takes spirit.

Yeah, for sure.

So good.

You've got a different race.

He doesn't have to name one.

But just, I mean, you go through the start of my career.

You're looking at Alan Shira.

Yeah.

I mean, I've certainly played with him.

He's probably two hundred and six goals in kind of a player.

Yeah.

Yeah, he had to be up there.

I wish I hadn't asked that question.

Yeah.

Sorry.

And then, you know, you go on and, you know, David Silver's, you're a

Guero's, Carlos Tevers.

And then, you know, Mao Sadio, Bobby Light.

Some Ford on that one.

It's not bad luck.

Yeah.

And the work that did for each other.

And England as well, you know, like lamps, lamps as well.

I mean, the Mac Gauls, E-score, Stevie, Waza, Harry Kane.

You cover a lot.

David, you cover Harry.

David, you cover Harry.

David, you cover Harry.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm going to watch him deliver and I'll be on the right

with him and just watch him there.

Yes.

Well, he could cross the ball.

Oh, I'm absolutely.

You've just got a few goals.

I didn't point at everyone.

He was actually, you know, when they ask you that question,

well, you don't yet, because he's not happened to you.

Right.

Because you've been playing for so long.

Eventually, someone will ask you the question.

Why don't you finish playing, James?

They'll say, you know, if all the players know,

would you want to play with?

And for me, it was always, for a long time, was, was always Beckham.

Because you talk about English players.

Yeah.

Otherwise, it would be messy, obviously.

Yeah.

But it was always Beckham because of that delivery.

Yeah.

Oh, their delivery was, was spot on.

Yeah.

Jürgen Klopp liked.

However you think he is, he is.

And I think that's the biggest compliment you can give.

Yeah.

I think, you know, like some people have one face in front of the media

and one face for.

He does.

He does.

What you say is what you're doing.

What you say is what you're doing.

It's a big heart.

Amazing guy.

Off the field, like the support he's done for my foundation over the years

and come into the events and bidding on things and stuff like that.

As a manager, intensity, you know, and when to say the right thing,

when to be, but training was good.

Made you want to run through a brick wall.

Yeah.

Just as an all-around package as a manager.

And that, that, you know, that aura about him and that weariness,

like we've talked about for a while before, where it was like,

oh, that'd be a bit careful here.

But then obviously, you can have a gel, can he's laughing,

and that's soft side as well.

So, yeah, the incredible manager.

Obviously, he said he was blessed to have you.

Blessed to have, uh, Mona.

But did I think there's also a half time for that?

Yeah.

He was told you to shut up us.

Yeah.

There was for sure times that he wouldn't have thought he was blessed off me.

Really?

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Are you, you kind of played it?

Well, perhaps I've a go back at a manager occasionally.

I don't want to say anything.

Go back.

I think like we're, that, that instance we're talking about,

he was saying something and I was saying the reason why it happened

or saying something else, and he said it.

And I said it again.

And we had a big thing like this in the middle of the training.

And he was like, oh, you shut that back up.

And, uh, and that was the end of that one.

Did you?

Yeah, immediately.

And like, the relationship we had,

I would, I'd always be honest.

I'd always be honest and say things.

And I knew he'd always know whatever I said was for the best of the team.

You know, sometimes he'd take it on board and he'd never say anything at the time.

But then over the next week or something, you'd say, oh, maybe he's taking it another time.

You know, but he was managing, he was the leader.

And I've always tried to be honest with the managers and say, well, I think,

and they know from me they're going to get honesty, but they'll get it on the pitch as well.

And, you know, they met the decisions and I'll give them everything I've got.

So we tried to deliver his messages within the dressing room and make sure that he didn't have any group from the dressing room.

And things were looked after.

And that's how he didn't have people knocking on his door and having to worry about outside.

It's, it's hard enough.

And we had a great group of players.

And when we had signings come in, they had to fit in because everyone was doing the right things and behaving the right way.

So, you know, you'd be completely different if you didn't.

So that was important, I think.

You obviously lived the rivalry, didn't you, between that incredible period of years where it was Liverpool and City

and obviously City was your previous club.

And eventually that first title came for Liverpool for 30 years.

That must have been special.

It was COVID, though, wasn't it?

And it was all a bit weird that period.

Yeah, that was the disappointing thing.

I think, obviously, that the COVID, when we lifted it.

But yeah, I think the whole journey to that point in terms of the battles we had with City and the Champions League.

I mean, you had won four titles in any other era, probably.

A hundred percent.

I mean, the year we won the Champions League, we lost the league on 97 points.

It's a mad, isn't it?

I mean, 30 wins, seven draws and one defeat.

And you don't get anything for it.

And I believe if we hadn't won the Champions League that year,

I think it's preyed for that team to come back and go again with nothing for it.

To keep that intensity, I really believe if we hadn't done that.

And that then goes to the Barcelona game, which again is that twist,

which looked really unlikely.

So if you don't turn that round.

And then you're not in the Champions League.

It was a seven point.

I was at that game, covering it.

That was the thing that was my favourite of the game I've been involved in.

I think, like you say, the quality of team, the atmosphere.

The booze before they started when Suarez, who's a Liverpool legend,

was on the kickoff and they were whistleed straightaway and said,

you know, one of ours tonight, mate.

And they were sort of set up to him.

We got a corner, I think, 34 seconds in.

The role for a corner was, and you get one and you just pick it a bit by a bit.

The dribble.

The dribble.

I mean, incredible.

That was a moment as well.

I mean, I have to say, I was hiding my emotions because I was a former Barcelona player.

Yeah.

I love messy and all that.

But it wasn't exhilarating to watch as well.

Unbelievable.

Yeah, to be part of it.

And then standing in front of the...

I'm with players missing.

So we had to obviously mow us out on a few others round.

I mean, no one gave you a chance.

And we'd had a tough game on the side against Newcastle.

The night before Vinny, company, it's sliced one in the top corner.

I mean, I've seen him shoot millions of times in training and put it in the bushes and over the fence.

Get fine for pointing out of the fence.

Is that the goal against Leicester?

Yeah.

It was the goal against Leicester.

I flipped it on with about 10 minutes left and sliced it in the top corner.

So that means it's unlikely.

Well, I'm always going to say that.

Vinny knows.

Yeah.

And so that, obviously, we've reeling off that.

And then you go into that Barcelona game.

So I feel like you look at that chain of events.

Then you turn that around.

97 point.

You win on the weekend.

Don't get the lead title in 97 points.

And then go on with the...

Yeah.

Champions League.

And then again, obviously the next year,

99 points to win it.

Yeah.

And then I think I'll be able to win 92.

Then Magnum does on.

See, if you look at most...

I mean, they're not going to get anywhere near that list season.

No.

I mean, they're Arsenal Inventables.

They'd have been third ones.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think they had 89 points.

That's true.

I mean, obviously, one will like that because he did it a long time ago.

Of course, because you've been playing against one.

Like for context and joke.

Yeah.

Well, I think we had over 9 points three times.

And finished second.

That's really, really mad.

It's not really been fine in the season.

It brings me to the question which is obviously difficult for you

because I know you're very close.

Diogo Giota.

And they lost him at the start of the season.

I think it's had definitely had some kind of effect.

And it clearly had an effect on you.

You adopted his number on the back.

Back of your show.

How close were you?

Yeah.

Pretty close.

I think, you know, it's like when you have...

Team mates and that team spirit in the amount of time you spend together.

And he was one of us straight away.

I always sat on our table when he had little tables at dinner

and before 94 games.

And there's Robert and myself and Jots and Hendo and the boys.

And he was such a great guy.

And I like boy into English football and English culture.

And could have a joke.

And boy, could we argue?

Did we argue and joke?

And always like having to mess around and arguments at dinner tables.

And in the...

I mean, we were both so stubborn, so many.

And I had so many fun times winding each other up.

I used to work with him in training, when you're in two and stuff.

And yeah, I mean, it's...

You can't point to words.

You can't point to words.

Life is fragile.

So fragile, isn't it?

There's a player, there's a guy.

So love everyone in the dressing room.

One of those guys, you know, like who can sit with anyone?

And get on and have a laugh with him.

And it's just skill that.

You know, going to be compatible with some people, more than others.

But for him, everyone and...

Yeah, I mean...

And a very good football.

So underrated.

And when I moved to Brighton, and Adam Webster used to sit next to me on the bus.

And the amount of times he got bored, I was like,

you don't realise how good this is.

It was literally my favourite player to watch.

There's a fan watching football, big, so clever, like how he used his body.

Even when he wasn't receiving the ball, he'd block someone.

So the next guy had time on the ball.

Body positions, rolls, touches, finishes.

He was so clever.

And I used to say it all the time, he's so good at me.

Yeah, Millie, you told me last week, you told me that.

I just love watching him.

And, you know, the impact, that's probably other than the football club and the people.

I think when you go through grief as an individual, you never know.

And it's going to hit you.

What effect do you laugh when you've got a full football team and a football club going through that?

Yeah.

The reminder every time you go into training ground, every time it's 20 minutes out in the field,

it's gone off an effect.

It has to have an effect.

Yeah, it has to have an effect.

Just bring it on to where you are now.

Brighton.

You enjoyed it there.

Yeah, yeah.

I have, I have, again, something that you wanted to project to be part of.

And you see the journey that's been on over the last however long.

I mean, I remember playing against Brighton in league one when I went on loan to Swindon.

So the journey they've been on since then and been involved in their first ever season in Europe.

And working under two managers who have learned a lot from and been part of that.

And the fantastic group of players.

I think there's a great senior group there.

You know, Welbs is, I took the pressure off him with my age, but he's now spring chicken,

but how he's playing in the goals he's banging in.

Absolutely incredible.

Example Jason Steele.

Who's you pushing?

Perhaps for England and world cupers are back up.

Kane because there's no, I mean, only Watkins obviously had things a little bit more difficult this season.

It's scoring goals.

He's worked great for the team.

His knowledge of the game is attitude.

How is as a guy around the camp?

You know, he wouldn't say he shouldn't be in there for sure.

You didn't know.

You're in Dawson.

100%.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Of who's going for sure, but he definitely would be an asset if he was that.

You had like 900 club appearances, a thousand club appearances, including news.

First player to play 23 Premier League seasons.

What's next?

At this moment in time, I think I'm just taking it game by game.

You're not going to say taking one game at a time, are you?

I'm going to throw that one out there.

At this moment in time because things happen so quickly and change so quickly.

He's getting to the end of the season.

Are you not sure another season or?

Yeah, that's the thing I'm not sure.

What do you drop down?

I don't think so.

No.

I don't think so.

I think it has to be something very exciting for you to do that.

And yeah, you never know.

That's why that's why it's tough to answer because you don't know what options you might have.

What are my conversations?

I'm a bit unfair to see that anyway.

But what about beyond that?

Would you think I'm getting clear in the media?

You speak very well.

You're obviously clearly intelligent.

But you've also played in all these different positions.

You've played with so many great managers.

Would you fancy going into the mad world of management?

There's times I think, yeah.

And there's times when you see managers get sacks six weeks after a signing new contract

and get in the manner of the month and they get sacked like...

Big payday, though.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Yes, then.

I think it's so difficult in it.

It's such a difficult job.

Well, like you say, I feel fortunate that the players are playing with the managers I work with.

It's a challenge.

I like a challenge.

It sounds like yes to me.

But it has to be the right club.

It has to be the right manager.

Yeah, it has to be the right owner.

I mean, it has to be...

Have you done badges at all?

I've done Yoy for B&A.

Ah.

So I've done those two and Pro's obviously in it.

Yeah.

But it's a bit harder to get while you're playing.

I mean, you're going to always tell me how I've a break.

I've a break for you.

I've a break for you.

You've finished.

I've a break.

I think that's...

I think that's wise.

You've got plenty of time to be a manager in a coach.

You probably need a year out or...

Yeah, I think.

And I presume when you finish that, you'll enjoy your holidays.

I'm glad I'm not back at pre-season.

And then that first Sunday, you'll hit when the league starts.

And I think you'll have that feeling and it's...

You don't know how you feel.

You don't know how you're going to feel going forward.

I feel like...

Some players really miss it.

Some players...

A hundred percent.

And the intensity, I think, I'm putting for that amount of time.

I think you're going to boast of having a recharge.

Yeah.

And I feel at that point, you'll know.

Yeah.

I really like to go into coach, you know.

You know, there's other avenues, of course.

Of course.

Well, whatever you do, James, I wish you all the very best.

And I absolutely like talking to you.

Thank you, appreciate it.

Thank you.

Good bye for me.

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