Jason Klamm and Mockumentaries - EP 863

0:00Welcome to the Dork Forest, Jackie and her pals will never bore us shameless confessions. About our obsessions will make us laugh and smile, so let's explore the Dork Forest and Dork down for a while. Hey Rangers, it's me Jackie Cation and it is another year of the Dork Forest. What the heck, right? So you should know that the website JackieCation.com or the Dork Forest.com or Dork Forest.com if you don't enjoy a determiner are all still available. You can hear the show on all of the different things. I've been trying to figure out how to get off Spotify, try not to listen to Spotify because they throw in ads that are not approved by me Jackie Cation, so but we'll see what I could do anyway. But so you could always watch the show on my YouTube channel.

1:01I think it's the Dork Forest or Jackie Cation. It's all linkable on JackieCation.com, the Dork Forest page and I have another podcast called the Jackie and Laurie Show, not quite as sleepable because it's just me and Laurie Combart and bitching about the stand-up comedy and also celebrating it anyway. So here's the thing, you can donate again to the show. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to donate about a hundred bucks a year because that keeps everything in rollin' along and you can do PayPal, which is my email Jackie at JackieCation.com, which you could also email me anything you like about the shows and stuff like that. You can Venmo me at JackieCation. That's my Venmo handle and if you see me in real life at a comedy show, you could just hand me a sweaty watt of 20s or whatever you like, that'd be great. And I also do stand-up comedy.

2:02So you can see my tour dates on JackieCation.com, you can see, you can listen to very old episodes of the Dork Forest on my bandcamp and I also put my very first album that I ripped. It's on my bandcamp page. It's called, it's not bread, it's not circus people, it's, cake is not my downfall, which is a track on the bread album, but it is, it has other jokes that are not on the bread album. I mostly, the audio is what it is, but there's also some very early Dork Forests at a storytelling album called Storytime, all on bandcamp and everything's either free or a couple of books. So, new album coming out in February called AlterCation and New Special and that, I'm sure there's more to it, but let's get into the show. Oh my gosh, I'm back, it's March, I'm Jackie, you're listening to the Dork Forest, it's

3:07slightly echoey, I've annoyed, but my guest is not annoying. I wonder if I could put on echo cancellation and see if that's something that'll please me. No, I can't. Is this all make it into the show? It all makes it, well it does now, let me say that. Jason Clawm, welcome back to the program, it's been a bit of minute. It has, it has. It has. Hot minute. I don't remember what I talked about last, I was news radio, that's what I talked about last time. Oh, that's right, the television program news radio. Jason Clawm, by the way, used to do a podcast about the minutia of old-timey stand-up comedy and I've been on that, that was fun. It was fun, I didn't know anything about the minutia of stand-up comedy. You were like, why don't you pick one of these albums and then I did and I listened and I learned. It's always fun. You picked Lenny Bruce, didn't you? I think you picked Lenny Bruce. I think I was out twice.

4:08I picked Lenny Bruce once. You know, the first one was Lenny Bruce and the other one was, oh lady, it was one of the lady comics. Uh-huh, not picked nearly frequently enough on that show, I wonder why, could it have been that most of my guests are men? Well, most of my guests are men and I, you know why, here, here's what's happened. Men folk are raised to squeak a wheel and everyone else is raised to go the path of least resistance. So every year, I, at the end of the year, I count, well, how many straight white guys did I have on the program and it is almost always more than 26 and there's just the 52 weeks of the year. So but I do put, once I noticed, which was probably a decade ago, I put some, I put some effort into it and I still haven't been able to, the, the squeak and my path of least

5:10resistance continue to create. So thems of you out there that are wearing a sausage casing that isn't a straight white guy. Please hit me up. Hey, well, I don't count as straight. So does that count? I, you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm by. So that's, so there you go. You've helped yourself on accident, something, yeah, accident, which I'm going to correct because my mother would want me to. But Jason, you're incredibly prolific this much we know, we have a, I'll take that coming out on June 2nd, right? Yes. And what is that book? That is called Ferris Bueller, you're my hero. It is as it sounds, the history of Ferris Bueller's day off, but it is not just any book where I read a bunch of newspaper articles and watched a movie a hundred times. I interviewed Matthew Broderick, I interviewed Alan Ruck, I interviewed James Hughes, wanted John Hughes's sons and then literally a hundred and twenty-two other people for it. Interesting. Interesting. Did you make an analogy at all that it was essentially Catcher of the Rye?

6:12I didn't bother with that because A, I didn't grow up on Catcher of the Rye. B, I saw a lot of things online where people were like, John Hughes was a Catcher of the Rye and Salinger obsessive. And then I couldn't find any proof of that. So I didn't go down that path. The paperback though I might, I might go down that path. I mean, yes. I've always thought Ferris Bueller was essentially Catcher of the Rye. I mean, I get that. And I, what you should know is that as much as I enjoyed Ferris Bueller when I saw it in the theater back of the 12th century, I enjoyed it thoroughly, I also, in rewatching, will not stop thinking to myself, just go to school you little shit and that's not your car. But these are the, these are the knee jerk responses. But my sister, it's her, it's one of her favorite fun little fun movies, you know, because we all have fun movies that are our favorite movies that aren't exactly, you know, it's

7:15not considered film by somebody who's bossy. My hope is if I'm not lying, if you read the 400 pages of this book, you might change your mind on that. Oh, you got the whole point of the book. Comedybooks.net. Why don't you go to that and then you'll find Jason Clam writing some books and it's at Jason Clam on the Instagram and that'll be on the notes. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, had to alarm go off in the middle of a podcast because I'm a fucking professional. I am so sorry. I'm going to turn the rest of those. And to be fair, they were to warn me that we're about to podcast in 45 minutes, but we're podcasting early. So slightly early so that I can get this to Patrick Brady and then our lives will be that much closer to being over what you guys, I have a new album about, I'm slightly overwhelmed. But other than that, I hope you enjoy it.

8:17Everybody altercation. It's called that because my last namescation. And I want to punch everyone in the next. Oh, I get it. Yeah. The last one was called staycation because we were all home and my last namescation. The next one, depending on where it goes, I'm doing a trilogy. I've decided to do a trilogy of weird make fun of my own name. And it's, so depends how the next couple of years goes, what is either going to be called vindication. I am the Cassandra of stand-up comedy or abdication as I run into the end of the sunset. Never. Don't do it. Don't. Don't do it. We need more jacquication always. As far as I'm concerned. I appreciate it. You know, it's funny. I got rid of all my comedy records. Well, not all of them, but like half of them. I got rid of half of them since the podcast is over. That kind of moving on because you had vinyl and CDs, mostly almost all vinyl.

9:18So you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. And I gave at least half of the collection to the Detroit Public Library just a couple of months ago. And they then said, oh, we'll put your name on the collection. I'm like, I didn't ask for that, but I didn't have to die or have millions of dollars to get my name on a thing at a library. It's so good. That is good. And what a good idea to give them to the library instead of goodwill. Well done. Exactly. No one's good. They're going to go in the garbage immediately. Even the good ones. People won't recognize for the good ones. I'm not giving away my signed Carol Channing record. I'm not giving away my couple other really important records, but I gave away a ton, a ton. Yeah, which is good because we all have too much stuff. Yes, we do. Yeah. I'm sitting here surrounded by brother as a very large house full of too much stuff. Oh, and at least, so my sister, I'm staying with her. And she said, there's box elder bugs everywhere. They don't find. Okay. You're okay. And I was like, I don't believe you.

10:19And right now, I see two of them. And I said, have you thought about encouraging them not? She said, there's no way to keep them. There's too many of them. There's not enough of us. And so be it. Not a huge fan of bugs. That's not your door. It's not. It's not. It's not. It seems to be something like fake history. Yeah. Yeah. That's the best way to put it. Is it mockumentaries? Is it? Is it? Yes, and. Mm-hmm. Okay. How about like Orson Scott card, the maker series? Do you like an alternative history in a night? I do. I've not read that particular one. I do. As long as it's got deep lore and a deep backstory and that, but it purports to be real for the sake of the audience. You know, like the beginning of Fargo says, this is a true story and that's absolute horse shit. The beginning of the three musketeers novel says, hey, I'm Alexander Dumas and I went and I found mentions of these three musketeers and these historical books that never happened either. Anything like that that's a small fake out to the audience, I kind of really appreciate

11:23or something, a lengthy fake out like a fake documentary. You know? Okay. As per usual, if I'm interested, you don't get to talk at all. Fair enough. So, welcome to the program, Rangers. Have you read the Flashman series? No. No. If you're going to ask me, have I read the answers probably no, at least of late because I've only been reading nonfiction that pertains to John Hughes or Ferris Fueller's tale. Oh, fair enough. That actually makes perfect sense. The Flashman series was made into a couple of movies that are actually quite not good. They didn't catch, they didn't capture. So many years ago, Andy Ashcraft recommended that I read the Flashman series and he warned me going in that Harry Flashman is more than an anti-hero. He is a villain who, it's like if Mr. Potter got to keep the $7,000, he does spoiler alert. He does get to keep that $7,000.

12:26And I am more and more against an anti-hero, but the alternate history of Flashman is, as opposed to like Zellig or Forrest Gump, Flashman is the kind of guy who's in every, there's a British, there's a British novel that they all have to read at Junior High called Tom Brown school days. Okay. I don't know if they're still having to read it, but they had to 20 out of years ago, 40 out of years ago. And it was written in the middle of the 1800s, 1850s. Harry Flashman was written in the 1950s and it was, Tom Brown was the sort of the pinnacle of English manhood. He was honorable and he was wonderful. And of course a colonist and went off to be a monster, but he went to rugby school and

13:28one of his schoolmates was a guy named Harry Flashman in the class Tom Brown school days. The Flashman Chronicles start with, I found these diaries of Harry Flashman and it's the real story of Harry Flashman and Harry Flashman is a fucking monster. And he is, he's in Afghanistan, but he's also in most American, like every major historical event. Uh-huh. British American or from 1850 to 1905 is Harry Flashman, sir. John Brown, he was with John Brown and Harry Spherry. He was in the Civil War. He was with Custer, but he was also in Madagascar with the last queen of Madagascar.

14:31He was in Brunei with one of the soldiers. He was in John, I mean, and the history is incredibly well researched. So that's, and I will say this about Harry Flashman. He has often given his comeuppance and he ends up, uh, his love interest is a woman who is even more self, uh, involved than himself. Okay. So it sounds like something I would dig. Yeah, I can see liking. Yeah. But he is a rapist and a murderer and a fucking monster. Sure. I finished the first book going, where is the second one? Okay. Okay. That's impressive. Okay. There you go. Uh, spoiler, but also trigger warning. Yeah. There you go. I have a problem with anti-heroes as well, although I like, because I couldn't finish, I couldn't get past two episodes of Breaking Bad. I apologize to everybody, but when I was writing that last book, because I knew I was interviewing Bob Odin Kirk, I decided to watch a little bit of Better Call Saul and I watched that whole

15:33series. So I don't know. I don't know. I guess it has to be a real, real funny anti-hero and I have to really root for something terrible to happen to. I don't know. And Deadpool. Yeah. And Deadpool is an anti-hero who occasionally finds, he'll use his evil powers, he'll use his powers for good. So, which is why Ryan Reynolds is perfect to play him, because I'm pretty sure that's who he is. You don't think there's acting going on there? No. I mean, there's more act made me. Maybe he's a fine guy. I don't know. I just know. He greens too much for my liking. You know what I'm saying? He's a little shiny. He's a little shiny. Yeah. You guys, hi. Hey, I smile at everything. I have a phone company. I don't know. What's your deal? What's your deal, Ryan Reynolds? You creep me out. And also, I watch all the Deadpool movies because I don't know. I enjoy them. I enjoy them. And you're, you're wearing a dork for his t-shirt, which means you're not getting another one. Not a joke. I picked his shirt out of the, the dresser this morning. I'm like, what the fuck is this? I'm like, oh, that's perfect. And of course, I had to wear it.

16:34But yeah. No, that's fine. You don't have to send me another one. I have two of them. The other one doesn't fit because I got bad or whatever. I don't know what happened. Well, the aging process is inexorable. It really is. And nothing to do. So now, tell me about your, so what is, I have not read the three miscutiers in a hot sec. Oh, me either. Right. But I, so yeah. But the opening is the same very, very much the same thing. I found all these mentions of all these, these, you know, these King's guards during a revolution or just before the revolution or what. My historical knowledge outside of the 80s right now is really pissed for. So my apologies. It was old-timey times in France, place. And it purports to be your real stories of these guys. And then that way, it frees him up to say whatever the hell he wants. And it's one of the, it's such a bold lie, I think. And it's one of those things that might send somebody down before rabbit holes were a thing terminology wise might have sent them down a research to try and find them. And they never would have. That's a fun prank that also coincides with a great story.

17:35You know. Right. And three miscutiers was written quite some time ago. I can't even remember. 18 question mark is when it was. I don't know. I want to say, like the way you said, 19 five, I want to say 18 five. I like the way you said that. That was like the coolest way you could possibly say 1905. You said 19 five. I liked it. Oh, right. Uh, miscutiers written by that guy. Mm hmm. Uh, Alexandra Duma. Uh huh, uh huh. And uh, he was a novelist in a playwright from 1829 to 1869. So you are correct. 18 something. And he also wrote the count of money, Christo. Yes. He wrote the three miscutiers in 1844. And I will just say side note, count of money, Christo. John Hughes often called himself, uh, the lead of that movie when he didn't want credit for a book or a best screenplay. I'm sorry. Oh, he checked. Wow, that feels rude to Alexandra Duma.

18:37Except for that. Except for that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, John Hughes, uh, it's, he's written so many things that there were things he didn't even like. Yes. That's, uh, that's very funny. Mm hmm. What, uh, so what's your favorite one? Of, of all of the fake history things that I'm interested in. I'm looking at a list. It did make a very brief list. It's probably all the Christopher Guest things, although there is a book called Mutel of the Mysteries. That is a book that was written in the early 80s by guy named David McCauley, who is one of all the children's book awards and stuff. And it is a fake archeological, archeological dig from, uh, 3000 years in the future, where they dig up a motel from the 1980s. And they presume that it must be some sort of religious thing. And all of the re, uh, like them trying on a toilet seat as like some sort of religious headdress and it's all drawings. And it's written for children or maybe early young adults, but it, it, it, it, it resonates as an adult just as much.

19:38And it is so frigging perfect. It's just one of these brilliant written things that just, just shows how stupid we can be when we were looking so desperately for symbolism, whether it is none, none. And I love that. That is very, uh, that's fascinating. Yeah. Um, what is it called motel of the mysteries? It's not hard to find. It's a large format book. It's the same format, same exact sizes. When the King Tut exhibit came through in the 70s, came through the US in the 70s. It's formatted roughly after that. I have both of them. So if you compare the two, it's kind of fun. Um, yeah. But most, and who wrote it, motel of the, uh, David McCauley. And I interviewed him. So honestly, I picked this because this will get me off my ass. I was trying to do a podcast about fake history and I never did. And now that I'm saying it out loud, I kind of have to work on it. Finally, I interviewed like five or six people about it. I interviewed some people involved in, uh, Garth Brooks's Chris Gaines thing. That's another weird fake history thing that I like because he's got a whole fake backstory for Chris Gaines. Um, yeah, I don't know.

20:40I'm obsessed with people insisting something's real. It isn't often to their detriment. Right, right. Uh, did you have you studied Fox News of you, have you done any sort of, like, what like I, like, I, I don't mind, like, do you think it can be used for good? Like why, like, what is only for good, you know what I mean? Like that's use it for entertainment. Give us a little bit of, like, there's an element of, I discovered it. I was working on something of my own that's similar and I discovered that, like, the whole idea is not to prank people, not to convince them something's real for the rest of their lives, but to give them that moment of doubt, like, is this real? And then they look a little bit closer. They don't even need a magnifying glass. Like, oh, this is a bit and then they enjoy the bit for what it is. They enjoy the bit for the effort that was put behind it. And I think that's kind of the key. That's the sweet spot. Okay. So like, it doesn't have to be satire. Um, but it often is, it usually is. Yeah, okay. I don't, yeah. Like I would say three musketeers probably, well, okay, look, it's probably deep

21:43satire that I don't understand. But Christopher Guest is obviously satire of a certain thing. That book is obviously a satire of archaeology or slash how we treat history. And everything I do is satire, but it doesn't have to be. Well, like, what about War of the Worlds? I mean, that's, that's, that's one that went so far. And then you ever seen Orson Welles interview about it after, oh, I had no idea that was going to have, oh, you bullshit. You're a liar. So there are people who are like clearly hoping for something like that to happen. And like, I sort of get it. But it's also like, that's kind of monstrous. Like there's, there's like, there's a cut it off at a certain point. I think is right, right? Because it's, it's a, it's a prank thing. Yeah. That, um, I'm a huge fan of a prank that happens and is over immediately. Yes. It has to be a prank at all. Uh, hey, got your nose. Oh, here's your nose. Uh, you know, yeah, it's perfect. That is perfect. I don't want, I don't want it to go any further than that.

22:44And we're the worlds supposedly scared some real people. Yeah. And, uh, you were arming themselves. You know, like I heard that somebody shot a water tower. I don't know if that's true, but I've heard that. I don't like, so like that's damage. You cause that's property damage. That's, it's against the constitution. Uh, where people tilt again, windmills. What was happening, right? Right. Yeah. It's, uh, had people gone mad. And, um, right, there's, there's, I think that like the Christopher guest, how many Christopher guest movies are there? Uh, okay. So it's a dogly one, right? Yeah. So the spinal tap ones don't technically count because they're not really of their initial creation, except for they did write all the songs and everything. That is kind of a rob riner thing. But, uh, there's Jesus Christ waiting for Guffin, best in show, a mighty wind, and then there was one they did called, uh, for your consideration, which is not documentary style, but wasn't entirely improvised. So I don't really know if that it's not really in the same vein because it is

23:46narrative style. It's not shot like a documentary, but they did improvise the whole movie. Then he did that Netflix show called mascots, which was, it was fine. But those three movies, I think are brilliant. What are mascots? What was that? It was, it was just about people being sports mascots or trying out sports mascots. Yeah. And it's like the world of that and like, who cares? I don't know. So who directed those? So who was that? That's all Christopher Guest directed all of those. So, and he co-wrote them with Eugene Levy. So he, okay. And so he liked essentially, he would look at society. Mm hmm. And I might, what was somebody wind about? Was that about the folks seeing or something? Yeah, yeah. That might be my favorite, actually. I know it's not a popular opinion, but that might be my favorite. No. Well, who cares popular? You're on the dork forest. That's true. You could be as unpopular as you like as long as it isn't fascism. So if, if you're unpopular opinion is that fascism is great, that's not a

24:50dorkdom that turns out, I think that's fair. Yeah, I'm taking a stand, you guys. So, but here's the, um, what? Okay. Yeah. Bastard, what, what ordered? Uh, okay. So, yeah, I mean, for me, I guess I go mighty wind waiting for government and best in show. And they're all good. Waiting for government is all like local theater. Um, like it's all just like a local theater and they're, and they're were literally waiting for a guy called government who's supposed to be a New York theater critic who's going to come see their shitty little, little town play as though that would ever have. Uh-huh. I was like, it was very into, there's all three of them were bold. And maybe the others that I didn't see because I have seen all three of them because people love and they love them. They're just like, this is intelligentsia, but it's also silly. But it's also satire that's the smartest, but also the dumbest.

25:53And it is, it loves the thing. It's making fun of, but it's also making fun of the thing that it, is making fun of. And like I don't know. Like I do you think like in, in those cases, those are very specific. Uh, let's, okay, uh, okay. It's Guffman, the wind, what's the dog one called best best in show? Okay. So, um, tell me, like tell me the plot of the wind movie. I forgot. Okay. So basically, uh, a big time, a big time as far as that can exist. Big time folk music manager has passed away and everybody's going to do a tribute concert who was part of his slate back in the day. And yeah. So all of the Christopher guest players come back. They all wrote their own songs in character, sang their own songs in character. And it's the ins and outs of, oh, do we want to still perform together?

26:54Oh, we, we had a, you know, our, like Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara's parts where they were kind of in love, but they've since separated and like, are they going to do their big kiss on stage? Cause that was always part of the song. There's little bits and pieces like that. And, um, yeah, it's really lovely. And how was the music? It's phenomenal. It's, it's to the point where all of the Eugene Levy songs, I'm like, Oh, he must have gotten like a voice stand in. No, that's him. He has a stunning voice. I knew Catherine O'Hara could sing, but, oh, I, um, and this is interesting because, like, it's an opportunity. It's sort of like, let's put on a show, but we have a budget to do whatever the hell we want to do so much. Yeah. Yeah, where it sounds beautiful. It sounds so good. All the songs are good. All the songs are good. What, what are, are the songs funny? Or are they just catchy? They are both. Like it, it's, I feel like it's probably hits home even harder. If you're a big fokie, which I am not, but like, there's some stuff.

27:55It's like, this is like legitimately of the era, very good and sweet. But then every once in a while, there will be a stupid double entendre in it. There are some characters or groups that are a little more obviously satire. So almost every word that comes out of their mouth is like, I didn't realize. I just said that kind of thing. So, you know, there's a solid mix. But the Eugene Levy, Catherine O'Hara characters are there for the actual heart, which is why I like that movie the most. It's got the most heart of the three. It's where Christopher Guest, maybe, maybe softens a little bit. Maybe that national lampoon edge just finally gets sanded down a smidge. So it's just not just, I get it. Okay, we get it. Okay. You're an angry man. Right. And was that the last of the three? Guffin and Besson shows that the most current. Yeah. Yeah. But the mighty wind is, yeah. So do you think Guffin was first? I think Guffin was first. It was. I want to say 97. That could be totally wrong though. That's all right. I don't know. I think it was 90s though. It was. I was in high school waiting for Guffin.

28:56So it is a waiting for Guido parody because Guido, of course, never shows spoiler alert. Guffin does show, right? Mm-hmm. Because he's he's supposed to they've saved the seat for him. Yes. And they think they think he's showed up, but it's just, you know, a tall character actor whose name I can never remember. Okay. And the Guffin. So that's Eugene Lovy and Christopher Guest as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. And was Catherine O'Hara and that one too? Yes. Yes. She plays. She is Fred Willard or Married in that one. Right. So these are all. And everybody, like even in 98, they were all in their 40s. Or if they were in their 40s, they look like they were in their 40s. Yeah, very much. And so, um, and then, and this is sort of, it's making fun of, but in, in a way that you can tell that they love local theater.

30:00Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or at least have been a part of it. Right. Maybe they don't love it. Maybe they, maybe they've only been a part of it. But here's something I would say about local theater is that everyone I've ever met in Los Angeles, yeah, or Minneapolis. Where is the other real place I've lived like this? Who's wanted to be an actor? They act. They literally genuinely, they, they find weird dinner theater. They find, you know, sort of like soap dish, where it doesn't matter that it's horrible. Sure. They just, I want to, I want to play Willie Lohman. I want to, I want to be at a play. I want to put out a costume and pretend. And, um, I've never been that kind of actor, right? Like, that's how you know someone is an actual actor. This is a, they act whether you wanted them or not, whether, whether anyone's going to ever enjoy it or think it's the greatest thing in the world.

31:03And, um, and that's what government, I think was. It was just, I think so. Because some of it, if I remember correctly, it was like, they take it so seriously. Yeah. And just have no self-awareness of like how bad they're doing. And that's a, I mean, look, there's, I can't say that he has no heart. There's a heart in the charm in that movie. He knows like what's charming about their bad production. I mean, there were people who have since put on the show within a show in that movie in their hometowns. Like, that is a thing that has happened. So it's like, it's, there's charm to it. Um, but yeah, they're just self unaware. And, okay. Yeah. And best to show is like that, too. Because it's about dogs. It's about the dog show. And everybody is like a serious is a heart attack playing this thing. They're playing it so seriously. So those are essentially, they're sort of mockumentaries to some extent, right? Yep, yeah.

32:03Did you ever, and I'm going to, no, because you haven't read a a cataclyphal for libous, I have, I have not, I like the title. It is, uh, it is a story of, um, in the distant future, it is about people finding the archaeology one that you talked about, um, made me think of it because it's a, it's a book about the, um, the new, they're coming out of the, the dark ages, but, you know, the old dark ages, people found and there was illustrated manuscripts of different stories and different Bibles and different, you know, they, they recopied Aristotle and then they did these beautiful, uh, illustrated manuscripts. Uh, cataclyphal for libous is post, uh, nuclear war. Uh-huh. And they find there's no, they, they killed anyone who was literate. They decided that it was all the scientists of the people's fall to know how to

33:04read. So they've, uh, burned them all to stake and they're coming out of that. And there are books that have been preserved and a cataclyphal for li, so libywitz was, he actually was one of the scientists who invented the button, uh, which it was written in the 70s or the 80s. I think that we all know that you, nobody invented the button. I love it. Those, that's a joke I love. You cannot go wrong with a joke like that as far as I'm concerned, because it's something that could not have happened. Uh-huh. There's a, there was a puppet show on, on MTV called Siffle and Oli. And at one point, one of the characters says, uh, yes. And I invented the front yard. I think is what they say. And to me, that is again, that's a perfect example of something. I love it. It's beautiful. Yeah, that, that is hard, that is hard to claim. And then you invented something that's only interested. It's like, I invented the doorway.

34:05What? It's like, you know how there's an entrance? What is it only an entrance? Who invented the exit? And, uh, so, uh, that is insane. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, so what else besides those, because those three are huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think the other big one, uh, here's the thing. Like I, we can't talk about the first mockumentary I'm aware of, because it may or may not have been written and starred Woody Allen. So that's, that's one that I don't want to talk about. It's called Take the Money and Run. And it is unfortunately very good. It's unfortunately very funny and has some great bits. It's one of those where I'm like, if I got the money, could I recreate that without giving any money to Woody Allen? Because it's, it's, it's, it's very good. Um, what, what about the Albert Brooks one? You know, the Albert, I, you know, that's just it. This is, this is one of my cultural blind spots. Um, I can't keep blaming me moving to the US and 87 light for every, every blind spot.

35:07But I, I was not exposed to Albert Brooks until I moved to LA and only to his albums. And I, if I'm honest, people keep recommending him so much, I feel like an idiot. Every time I'm like, you know, I haven't seen any of this stuff. I haven't seen any Albert Brooks movies. Well, let me tell you that, uh, first of all, uh, my friend Jim Wooster, who's done this program a couple of times the last time, um, was during lockdown. The audio sucks. What do you talk about Colombo? Anyway, because it was the first, it was the first episode I did after, um, after lockdown. And he didn't know how to use the internet, which is interesting, because that's his job. Okay. So what there is, let me, uh, there was, it was Albert Brooks and Rob Reiner went to high school together. Oh, they were friends for 60 years. That's insane. Okay. Uh, and Rob Reiner defended the, uh, 2023 documentary Albert Brooks defending my life.

36:08Oh, that's right. Right, right, right. Yeah. Did you ever see that? I had to see. No, I didn't see that either because I feel like I needed to see all of his other shit before I go see this. Okay. So Jim Wooster had a theory about Albert Brooks. He said there were two kinds of people. People who liked early Albert Brooks and people who liked late Albert Brooks. I am squishy and I like late Albert Brooks because he's warmed up to the idea of humanity. Um, and so what because of the thing that you love so much, you would enjoy, um, probably lost in America. Yes, I would. And I had that described to me several times. I know I would like that. There is, there was also, it wasn't modern romance. It was a different movie that, uh, was a mockumentary. Right. And he also did looking for comedy in the Muslim world, which was terrible. Um, in my opinion, if you love it, I'm not here to put a combustion on your, uh, but there was a,

37:12like a fake. It was about, oh, he was a taxi driver. Real life. That's the name of it. Have you heard of that? Oh, okay. I have heard of that. Yes. It's again, another one that I've been recommended. You should go see it and then they describe it to me and it goes in one out, you're in out the other. He wants to make a documentary that'll get to the very heart of what it means to be an American family. Sure. To that end, he pursued persuades the yagers of Phoenix, Arizona to let him and his camera crew document virtually every movement of their waking lives, what's supposed to be a cinematic presentation soon becomes quite different and Brooks can't stop himself from comically interfering in their lives. So it isn't an actual documentary. Um, right. But it, and it's, but it's called real life. So real life and lost in America are very much socio-political examinations. Uh-huh, much like waiting for government, much like all of that.

38:14And, uh, but he's the, the two Albert Brooks movies I like couldn't be more fictional. One is mother. Right. Uh-huh. Where a woman who's approximately 12 years older than him places with her. Debbie Reynolds, I think. And, um, and then defending your life with Meryl Streep, which feels like he bought a trophy one. Because Meryl Streep is an entirely, she, she actually, uh, that's one of my favorite movies. Because most Meryl Streep movies I've ever watched, she said an entirely different movie than everyone else. Right. Right. She's acting at a, you ever see the devil wears Prada? Oh, yeah, sure. She, there's this one movie that's about sort of a romcom about a chef and an assistant. And then there's the movie that Meryl Streep is in where she, she's having a midlife crisis. And it's, and it's serious.

39:15It's a heart attack, right? So yeah, yeah. There are people who can do that, who do that. And it's like, you shouldn't be in this movie. Whereas Meryl Streep, she just insists that she should be there. And you're like, and that, that's fine. Like, you're going to get an academy award for this movie. But the rest of this movie is almost unwatchable because you're standing there. It's like trying to play catch with like an NFL football player. Where it would be me trying to not have the football go through my body entirely. And this person threw it at me. But what are your other favorites? Unplanned pregnancy. Learn how people are getting abortion pills by Meryl for a safe abortion at home, no matter what state they live in, at planseapills.org. That's planseapills.org. I would say, so this is, I also like the really dumb ones. Like the, and please anybody who's a fan of this,

40:15don't be insulted by me calling it dumb. I think it's obviously dumb. And that's the Ruttles. And that is the earliest one that I saw, which is just a whole mockumentary about a ban, a fictional ban called the Ruttles that sounded exactly like the Beatles to the point where they almost got sued by the Beatles for house to more of their fun sounded. And it's just Eric Idol making dumb shit jokes in the guise of a journalist. And it's a Neil Innis and a bunch of other guys who are associated kind of with the Beatles or the Bonso-Doug Duda band playing this music. And it's, it's a spinal tap a few years before spinal tap to the point where it's also got a lot of spinal tap people in it. Oh wow. Yeah. And I think somebody will correct me on this. I think it premiered as a short on SNL when Eric Idol was on it. And then it became a feature-length thing later on. I could to be wrong. I might have the order wrong, but it definitely was on on SNL. So at some point was Eric Idol in Bonnie Python? Yes. Yes. There are gaping holes like Alzheimer's size holes in my comedy knowledge.

41:20And one of them is Bonnie Python. You can't know everything. You can't know everything. And something's not a one or no. Like Benny Goodman. Not Benny Goodman. Benny Hill. Benny Hill. I also don't want to know anything about Benny Goodman. I'm going to stand by that. I'm just going to say it. I'm going to stand by it. I'm going to take that on the road. You and your fucking clarinet playing can take it and hold it like a normal clarinet player. Anyway, he was so good that he could hold it like a trumpet. And so yeah, Benny Hill. Benny Hill wasn't made for me. And I insist on not having to watch it. I think that's fair. Yeah, I think so. I don't know that it's good. No, no, I'm though there was probably something funny. It's just English in the English like all of their old shit. And I on a level, I appreciate that you don't let uh, legacies die over there on the other hand that has backfired several times. Monarchy. Though I am will I am.

42:21You got to love the fact that they're like, now we've been trying to get rid of Andrew for decades. Take him, take him. Finally, bury him head first to the sand and paint his feet with honey. Um, yeah. But yeah, the ruttles is probably like top of the list. And what's it's funny like because I then it went again, I started finally seeing Christopher guest stuff. And then a mighty wind is the reason I'm like, you know what? I'm going to turn this book I wrote or that I'm trying to write and this play I'm trying to make or this movie I'm trying to, I'm going to commit. It's going to become a mockumentary movie. It took eight years to finally become something. And so like a mighty wind. I mean, if it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have made like a bunch of friends and I made an L.A. I wouldn't have made a sequel to that movie that probably no one's watched that you're in. You're in the sequel to it. Um, what have I done? Uh, what's the movie? Where is everyone saying this? The first one's called looking forward. I put it up on YouTube. You'll see it's got a miserably low number of views. But I think it's pretty good. It's a mockumentary about my alter ego who I stupidly gave my same name who runs

43:25for the president 12 years in the future. Oh, I remember that. Yes. Yeah. And then I decided, you know what? I'm going to do a sequel not knowing what would happen in 2016. That is not my fault. And then you kindly participated playing a fictional version of yourself. And I go on your podcast and you eventually slowly gently kick me off of it. You did such a fucking fantastic job. It was a delight to edit. Um, so that one is maybe less well edited. I'll get I'll say that for myself. Um, but yeah, I love I don't know a couple of very fun programs. And now can people see that? Why would why would I be on ComedyBooks.net? No, those are both on YouTube. So you can look under my YouTube, whatever that is. And those are those are both there. But you guys good luck. It's Jason Clown, YouTube and Clown is spelled K-L-A-M-A-M-M. Clowns is how I continue to pronounce it incorrectly. No, everybody does it. For decades. Uh, but that's why ComedyBooks.net. That's why I did ComedyBooks.net because this is going to be a problem. It's going to be an issue.

44:26And um, we go to YouTube and then you can see. Sure. Because that was a decade ago or so, right? Yeah, the first one I finished in 2012 and then the second one I finally wrapped up editing in 2018 because depression, uh, over politics and things. I had no clue. I had no clue it would get worse. How would I know? How would I know that Jackie? Well, history. And I know that you're looking at fake history, but I could be a problem. If you looked at real history, you'd be like, oh, shit. It's going to get worse before it gets better. It's still going to get worse before it gets better, you guys. And I'm so sorry to tell you, but here, here's what I hold on to. We may not be here for it, but it will get better when we rewrite the constitution. Some of the first words are going to be no slavery at all. Everybody is a person. Women are a people, men are a people, a non-binary people is a people.

45:30Everybody's a people and no slavery for any reason, even if they murdered your mom and we put them in the jail, you don't get to make them chip out to the center of the earth for no one is forever. And in parentheses, we have to write, and no, this does not mean we condone the future marrying of dogs. It is not a slippery slope stop saying that. That is not what's happening just because we support people. It doesn't mean we're insane. Right. And if you want to marry your dog, you cannot have sex with your dog because that is not consensual. Exactly. Thank you. It's a, because they have been bred to want what you want. And stop it, knock it off. I will say this. My obsession with fake history is the reason I can write real history now. So I've written two nonfiction books, but the rest of everything I've written eight books now. My other six of my other books are all fake history. And I think because of me knowing the tropes of real history writing,

46:30I think I learned to write good nonfiction. I think it's good nonfiction. Right, right. So what are the two that are nonfiction now? So the last one, which was I think I promoted on your show, which is We're Not Worthy, which is a history of 90s TV sketch comedy. And then this one, the Ferris Pueller book, which is called Ferris Pueller, you're my hero. There we go. I'm talking with Jason Klopp, just so everyone knows before we forget who we're talking. I do like that you do this like a radio show like somebody might come in late on your podcast. Or they've been listening and they're like, well, I don't want to have to rewind a thousand. That's fair. I know what this guy's, but you can look at the notes, of course. Guys, you've been listening to Jackie Cation just to let you know, just to let you know. I figured I'd help out. Like they should know the name of the host. What if they forgot? What if you forgot? It's Jackie Cation. And altercation right there available. You can go to Jackie Cation.com. You can go to the dorkforce.com. You can go to FamilyPetAncestry.com, which I bought and points to JackieCation.com.

47:31Why did I buy it? Because it's funny. That's what it's great. Makes me laugh. So is it all movies that you like that do this fake history? Or are there any TV shows? No, no, they're like, I mean, they're like, you know, like I said, the intro to Fargo, short, the intro to three musketeers also, yes. But the museum of the motel of the mysteries, there's, oh, there's a TV show called Look Around You. I don't know if you've ever seen that. It's English. It's created by a guy named Robert Popper, who's better known now for Friday Night Dinner over there as an English show. And it is a fake science like new, not newsreel, like film strip style series. But it's all like absolute bullshit made up. It starts out almost like it's really scientific. And then at some point, they're talking about, you know, telepathic ants and shit. And it's, they're short, they're sweet. And they're shot so perfectly they've got like the pilots a half an hour. But the series episodes, if I'm not mistaken, are like 15.

48:32So they don't overstay their welcome at all. They're perfect. Perfect length. They're so good. That's the way you got to do it. It's one of the parts I've never been able to watch sketch comedy is because you have to get out and tell the joke. You got two jokes. Congratulations. And then call it. Uh-huh. Yeah. I can. As a person who writes six minute stand of comedy bits. And then they have to be shaved down to two minute 40. I think one of the tracks of my new albums, album is genuinely over eight minutes. Really? Yeah. Which will be great for serious because they'll only have to be me for one track. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. But if anyone needs to run that and then go to the bathroom, like that's a thing anymore. It's not a thing anymore. They just program it. But they there's no people. But that's cool. Is it, so it's a lot of a lot of what do you think? Now see, this is not a positive thing. Because I'm not a fan.

49:33That's fine. But maybe when the dork first, I try to make it positive. But I'm not a fan of pranks. I think it's been established. Right. But Sasha Cohen. Yeah. And she seems mean. Yeah. Yeah, I have real mixed feelings. Because I can't say I didn't go see Borat when it came out and laugh raucously like a 26-year-old, the 26-year-old I was. But it might have been made for you, right? It might have been made for you. Yeah, everybody was made for kids 13 to 30. And you had to be a, I'm not saying it was only men that enjoyed it. I know plenty of women who enjoyed it. But it was built. I don't. I don't feel like a stereotypical man that, that often. But I will tell you, in that moment, I was very stereotypical. I fell right into where they expected. And I thought it was very funny. What I want to participate in that, no. Do I think when he makes fun of actual authority figures, prank them till the day is done. Don't give a fuck. That's great. But it's when you fuck with normal ordinary people, which maybe he doesn't do as often.

50:33But like- No, no, he's doing some crazy show. There was some crazy show he's doing. And a friend of mine was in it. And they did a run-through where they hurt people's feelings. And then they were going to do it again. And she walked off set. Of course. She was like, I don't approve. Whatever's happening here with these normal people who are now super sad. And I don't want to make nine more people sad. But have a focus and have that focus be on authority. Right. People doing wrong, actual bad things. I will say this. Jetta Friedman does something that isn't that. But feels that. Are you familiar with the- Why does that- Okay, here's the problem. I know her name. If I see her face. She is a blonde. She's probably at her late 30s now. She did in 2017 or 2018. She did one of the bravest stand-up comedy sets. I've ever seen on Conan.

51:35And it was about- That's it. And it was about fascism. And- Okay. And she is what she had a show. On CNN or Comedy Central, where she would interview these right-wing shittbags. And she is a very pretty blonde woman. Sure. And so they would say yes. Of course. Yeah. And then she would ask them very real questions- Okay. About their very real monstrous activities. And it would, to some extent, not even all of them, it would dawn on them. Wow. That they were asked real questions by a woman who was very smart. Holy shit. Kind of the funniest parts. Because when they never realized it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were just like, of course. Well, did she accidentally ask me this very pointed question about why I'm a monster?

52:35And that's an element where the reality is presented for you directly. And it should dawn on you. But it's your dumb shit that's in the way. Whereas I feel like the other thing is like, my dumb shit is in the way of you just enjoying your day. So I shouldn't inconvenience you with more than like half a second to five seconds of my fake history garbage that I did. Like I had a, what do you call it? I had a museum, a fake museum exhibit at the Detroit Public Library for a month last year. And the bit was, it was the history of my sketch comedy group. We've been doing comedy together for 32 years now, since we were 13. And we count that as 32 years, dammit. We have beaten deaf punk. Don't ask me why we're competing with deaf punk. That's what we just decided to do. Just deaf punk, bud. Yeah, exactly. No, they don't have no clue. But there's 200 years of fake history in there. 30 years of real history is a solid mix. And we don't, the DPL, the Detroit Public Library did not give up the ghost. They were not like, that's not the right term, but they didn't give it up. They didn't say, hey, this is a fake bit. This is a whole bit. They just said presented without context. And we also did the same thing. But I think if you dig in for more than a second,

53:37also it doesn't hurt anybody. But if it digs in for more than a second, it's pretty obvious that like this bottle of a certain brand of heroin that was supposedly a sponsor of our comedy is not real. I think it's pretty clear that this film, film canister for a 60s British sex romp called Rump Parliament is not a real film thing. But for a half a second to five seconds, it feels real. And that's the bit. And then you're in on it. To me, that's sort of the magic of it. Like if you can do that, you're not fucking with anybody for too long. I think I once saw, I think it was Rachel Bloom once tweeted. She was like, she was talking about like one of those fake news websites that doesn't know how to be the onion. And it's just like, this just purports to be real. And there's nothing. And she's like, that's this is bullshit. This isn't comedy. This fucking sucks. You're just mad. I'm like, you know what? That's a really good point. I like that perspective. And I took that with me. Yeah, that's great. I like the idea that that because that is my favorite where I have read some minion headlines and gone, wait, what?

54:42And then gone, oh, I see. Yeah. It's possible, but lessons lead not happening. Exactly. Exactly right. Yeah, yet, yet, yeah. So what else you got? You want to know what other things do you enjoy? We did, we did, we didn't know. There's so many more. This is the problem. Also, mockumentaries are now like such a common thing in TV shows like that. How much of it do I count? Because I love parks and rec. I think that's a brilliant fucking TV show. But like it also in the last season breaks, it doesn't break the mockumentary style. It breaks the mockumentary format. So it's like, when does this show takes place in the actual distant future soon? It's now technically sci-fi because they skip forward several years in the final episode. So it's not really, it's not the office. The office admits that it's a documentary at some point. So that's kind of more like, but the last three seasons of that show suck ass. So I don't know, I like them and I like stuff like that.

55:43But I feel like I'm running into less and less of it that maybe isn't just making it now. You know what I mean? And maybe, maybe you look at it differently and you're like, it's hard to enjoy if it isn't being done with that sort of flavor that you thoroughly enjoyed when you were, when you first got into it. Yeah. And now I'm inventing a flavor that I predict that I personally prefer, I think, whether it's successful or not as its own question, but, you know, you know, like I'm writing a book, a fake history about a video game that never existed. Why am I doing that, Jackie? I don't know. I had patches made for this video game. I have patches that you can play, but it doesn't exist. This doesn't, none of it's true. It's all horseshit, but I don't know why. I think I just enjoy the format. I like the format of present this as it's real. Hopefully the jokes are obvious within a few minutes of reading the book. And you can, you know, and then you could thoroughly enjoy it just the rest of the book. It's like, oh my gosh. Um, yeah. I've always, you know, I have made jokes about shows that supposedly exist.

56:49Yeah. And then like when I first moved to LA, I got to a meeting because I made a joke about a fake pitch or a TV show. Okay. And then I thought it was real. Uh-huh. And I didn't have a, every time I've gone into a meeting with someone in Hollywood about a show, first of all, we're often the nut. No, every single time I haven't known that I'm supposed to be prepared. I know, I would like, oh, they just wanted to go to lunch with me? No. Here's the thing. I love going to lunch. Sure. Maybe that's, maybe that's my mockumentary. Uh, I keep going to lunch with people and saying things like, all right, I've got an idea. It's bosom buddies. Meets Chico and the man. And it was a, it was, that was the first one that got me a meeting. And it was about two women who moved to Los Angeles and have to live it,

57:49have to dress like men and live at the Y. Uh-huh. And, uh, um, that was that one. Uh-huh. The one that I just came up with that someone was like, you have got to make this. And I was like, I'm not, uh, someone else. Does anyone want to make, uh, not the cutting edge, but it would be about two, uh, two women who are figure skaters who get co-opted onto the women's hockey team. And, uh, not saying I wouldn't watch it. There's, they need two more women for the women's hockey team for this big game. You guys, they, everyone's coming down with the flu or something. I don't care what it is. Govin. And then all of a sudden these two women who only know what they can, you know, and they're, they're, you know, triple axel and then bam into the very distracting. And, um, and then maybe there's a love interest.

58:51It could be a gay, it could be like the, like the gay boys that are the young men who are doing the romance thing on Netflix. Mm-hmm. So that Netflix, um, I think so. Heavy hitting. Yeah. Uh-huh. Sounds good. Whatever it is. I love, here's the thing, so many people have told me to watch this. They're like, you love romance novels. And I'm like, I do. I do love romance novels. Here's what I don't enjoy. Modern romance novels. And that's fair. And I, uh, I don't mind two handsome men making out, uh, in the course of that. But, um, uh, that's not my go-to porn. It's hard to pick somebody else's porn, even softcore porn. And, uh, but I hear it is very, very fun and very good. The, um, what is it called? I don't know. Is it called high sticking? That's my first guess. Is it about hockey? It is about it. Is it if it's okay? I think for a second, we were still talking about hockey and I got, you are correct.

59:55Hockey romance. Because hockey romance books are actually a huge new genre. Yeah, I have noticed that. Uh, yeah. Yep. He did rivalry. That's what it is. He did rivalry. I mean, that's, I mean, that's, yeah, it's a competitive spirit of ice sports with compelling love stories. Mm-hmm. And it means it's, so if, if you had a fit, a bit that led to a pitch, which by the way, I love, I didn't, I've obviously never done stand-up. So the only pitches I've ever got are due, are due to me, um, insisting that I be in a room that I don't belong in. Um, it's only, it's only two pitches that I ever got and obviously they never sold. But there is that stand-up thing of like, you know, this happened yesterday, not a decade ago. That's kind of a bit of, that's a, that's a fake bit. And I think also when comics lean into that, it's also funny. It's just as funny as like, oh, right. I was walking down the street the other day. No, that happened a decade ago, but it helps set up your perfect joke. So that's fine. Right. And, well, you know, and it's always, I think people are paying more attention than they are

1:00:57in, in my material. But I'm also not wrong. Most of my fans are pets. Most of my fans are very, very detail oriented. They're like, wait, you saw that happen? Eight months. And I'm like, yes, and now it's recorded. So that eight months will continue to recede. Into history. And I love that. When I wrote it, it had happened eight months ago. And that's what we're going to go with. Of course. Yeah. Keep changing the time. You're not actively, we're calling a memory. You're actively, we're calling a fine kind of a script to keep in your brain. Yes, it's the event that's more important than the time. If it is, if the time frame is important, know in your heart that I will update the time frame. I am not, I'm not here to lie to you. But even for the sake of a joke, I'm not, but in which I think is something you enjoy. You enjoy a very quick lie.

1:01:57Yes. Where eventually you're, you're let into the fib in me. 100%. Yeah. I love that I, on the way to the theater, this happened. No, we didn't. No, you didn't just write this before you're being special. That's fine. But I think it's the funniest thing to insist that it just happened. It's great. It's great. Again, tiny lie. It's, it hurts nobody. It hurts nobody. And then, if you're a good comic, you can lean into it. It entertains everyone. At the best case that I am. Rangers, I just want you to know that we have been talking and listening with Jason Klum. Jason Klum has spelled K-L-A-M. And his Instagram is at Jason Klum. It'll be in the notes. Comedybooks.net probably has a list of all eight books you've written. Is that correct? Oh, except one. One, I did under a pseudonym that I'm not telling anybody where to find it. And that's funny. I think that's funny. Is my friend Elizabeth Duck. I cannot tell you. Yeah. I'm just picking a name.

1:02:57YouTube has a couple of mockumentaries that you made. And you could probably Google the words Jason Klum. YouTube. And that'll come up. Yeah. That'll be fun for you. It's probably a trailer. I'm there for my real documentary, which I also did a real documentary. So that's how they're so confusing. You're in the 11 hour money and the waters between fact and fiction. Jason, thank you so much for doing the show. Thank you. Are you kidding? I love doing this show. And Rangers, you know the rules out there. Take care of each other. My hat, my hat, my hat. They're dancing around my hat. My hat, my hat, my hat. Well, what do you think of that? If it looks like a Mexican hat dance, and it sounds like a Mexican hat dance, it's most likely a Mexican hat dance. So take off your hat and let's dance. Yay. Oh my god. Why don't we just call that as the end of the show?