Jayson Tatum is Back! Plus, the Players We Love to Watch and a Raptors Check-In.

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Coming up on the Zach Lo Show, the great Chris Ryan is here.

It's a CR month on the rewatchable.

So we have him on here, CR Day on the Zach Lo Show.

Jason Tatum is back right in the nick of time before we recorded.

So we talk all about the implications for the Celtics.

What Tatum will look like, what role he'll fill and all of that.

Then remember the Marcus Soul All-Stars.

A column I used to write for Grandland and other places,

just favorite players to watch.

That's it.

Chris and I both picked a starting five of our favorite players to watch

and a couple anti-Marcus Soul All-Stars guys

that we maybe hate watch.

And all of that got us talking about a lot of different stuff.

Nick Stunder, Mike Brown, lashing out at the officiating.

These are the Thunder joining a growing chorus of coaches

who are doing that.

The Caves and the Caves recent shirts, the Rockets, the Spurs,

lots of other stuff.

And of course, we talked about Jared Becane and the Sixers and the Thunder

because Chris is here.

We talked about Luke Cornett versus Magic City.

Not so much nuggets talk, but exciting announcement.

The Zack Low Show is coming live to Denver, Colorado.

That's right.

Denver, we're bringing the show to you at the Fillmore Auditorium

on April 13th.

Tickets go on sale March 9th.

Monday March 9th at 10am mountain time.

Come join the Zack Low Show and special guests

at the Fillmore Auditorium in Denver.

April 13th right before the playoffs.

Again, tickets go on sale, the wringer.com slash events.

March 9th 10am, check out the wringer.com slash events

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Zack Low Show coming live to Denver.

Zack Low Show coming into your ears with Chris Ryan

and Jack Armstrong.

Hello to talk about the Raptors right after this.

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Welcome to the Zack Low Show.

It's CR Week, CR Month.

And the Rewatchables.

And so it has to be CR Week on the Zack Low Show.

The podcast needs a dose of the great Chris Ryan.

How you doing, bud?

Good man. Good to see you.

Thanks for having me on on CR Month, you know, I am stretched thin. I got, you know, press box. I got to do bachelor next, you know, I'm just doing every show we got.

Look, someone has to be the MVP of this thing. It might as well be you. We're going to do some fun stuff and we planted that out. And before that, we have to get to about five minutes ago.

We did Jason Tatum is going to return this season. Perhaps as early as this Friday or this is whatever day it is March 10th against the Dallas Mavericks.

Do you have any reaction to this other than if you checked on bill is bill stressed. Is he happy? I'm sure he's very happy. What's what should take? I haven't checked on him. I'm sure he's going to go live any minute now.

Personally, you know, I'm glad my prayers have been answered. It lets me know there is a God. I've just been just hoping and praying for JT to get back on the court, you know, that JT size hole in the Celtics was really bothering me.

I'm honestly, I wish him the best. This will be a really interesting test of I guess the 2026 and that's what Achilles injuries are are a nine month injury now.

In my experience and in all of our lifetime, this was a at least year long thing plus a year of not looking quite like yourself, but they're going to throw him right back into the fire.

Do you think that he's going to be a role player on this team or like he says in the documentary that I've seen clips of he's not coming back to be a role player doc.

I think he's I think it's good minutes wise. I think it will be role player issue at least to start right. That's the most important thing. You stick them in for whatever amount of minutes he gives you is what he gives you takes a little slice of like the Hugo Gonzalez, Shireman, Walshman, it's all of those guys are playing well.

And I think with the A team on the floor, I think he he veers a little bit more into not quite like alpha Jason Tatum shoot more spot up threes drive closeouts all the stuff that he can do and he's very good at.

And then I'm really interested to see when Jalen Brown is off the floor where the Celtics have been amazing the entire year with Jalen Brown off the floor, but the offense becomes just like a blur of screens and passes and cuts in a more system based offense which worked really well.

I think that's when he'll get some time to cook to me. I've always like I know people are worried about the chemistry and disrupting the rhythm this team has and they are they are the feel good story of the season they are the biggest surprise of the season.

He's in Joe Missoula is my coach to the year at the three quarter mark. They've just been a delight to watch. I just didn't think there was any chance that they were a championship team as is.

And so if there's any chance that Jason Tatum can help raise your ceiling, I see like no harm, no foul in this. If it's not working, you gotta pivot.

But to me, huge win for the Celtics, awesome for Jason Tatum, who was an all time gamer, like just never missed games and now he's back.

And we'll see we'll see I'm like you and fascinated to see how how it looks. I don't remember a situation quite analogous to this of like star player on a top three seed missing 60 to 65 games and coming back right away for high stakes games.

And I do think it's important he comes back with a nice buffer before the playoffs. That would have scared me right into the playoffs.

It's strange it's just like everything we've been talking about this season, one of the narratives about it is it's just been the increased intensity full body intensity, the NBA players experience in today's game and how they're expected to cover more ground and its corner to corner.

So I'll be fascinated to see a guy coming off Achilles immediately get thrown into that fire and to what extent his defensive responsibilities are maybe, you know, changed mitigated by his, his his sort of like reemergence on this and this rotation.

I'm just kind of like if you told me in like five years that Achilleses are going to be like the NBA version of Tommy John where they're just like, yeah, we're going to do the Achilles so that his calf stops bothering him. I don't know. Is that where we're going?

I don't even thought about it like that.

Yeah, it's a quick turnaround. I think there was the bill was on this right away like the rapidity with which they did the surgery. I think was helpful in terms of like whatever was going on inside there inflamed less scar tissue, whatever it was.

And this is like when that injury happened, I'll never forget it was the same night as the draft lottery. It was like an earthquake night in the NBA Cooper flag is going to Dallas, Jason Tatum's out for like not just this playoff run as brief as it looks like it was going to be.

But like you kind of wrote off the following season this season in your head. And now the Celtics are 41 and 21 second in the East couple game cushion for number two in the East. And they're getting Jason Tatum, bad luck to me.

I just don't see any world in which you cut any world like there'll be some there's always hiccups introducing a big piece like that to a team that's played a lot of games without him.

But I just don't really see much of a downside. Like that's on him and Joe Mizzula and everyone else to mitigate whatever instinct you might have to be like, no, now I'm playing 38 minutes and it's my team again. Like that's just not realistic. I think everyone probably understands that.

They got boat race by the Hornets last night. So I guess there's a that I guess that that like paved the way a little bit. It was the kind of like, you know, like we were getting smoked by by Lamello. We need we need a little help here.

Yeah, I think that, you know, paved the way is the right phrasing for it. I think it was a reminder of this team is at 41 and 21 has enjoyed other than Tatum 100% perfect health for the most part like no setbacks and even as is has pretty much no margin between what they are and and and you know a worse version of themselves like everything's got to go right to be where they are right now and everything doesn't go right.

Wow, that's a big that's a big bomb to drop right before we get on CR. That's fun. Yeah.

He's tall and he can shoot those are two very important things. He's not quite as tall as Kevin Durant. He doesn't shoot as well as Kevin Durant, but like that was though that was why there was all the optimism for Durant's return from the Achilles because at the very least you take away whatever he's going to be missing for the first few months and he's not going to be Jason Tatum right away.

So I think it's going to be ready like it's not going to look like Jason Tatum because he's going to work his way back when he's tall and he can shoot and those things don't go away. So that's exciting times in Eastern conference. All right.

So if dating back to a grandland website you and I both worked at you were more of a founder. I was just glaminon midway through.

I used to write a column called the mark a soul all stars and the premise was just simple. My favorite players to watch just that's it.

And I tried to veer away from like super duper stars is like when we don't like we all love when it's a pretty easy choice right you'll get the same thing.

But you can pick stars. You can pick any we can pick role players. You can pick anyone you want just the only criteria is I love watching this dude play basketball. Maybe I'll write it again someday. I don't know. We'll see.

TBD on that one state of your fingers. Have you have you entered into the Bill Simmons rehab plan for finger reconstruction. Okay.

No, I was going to write this season. And then I decided let me let me feel the new the new place out before I overextend myself or extend myself to where it was before. So I'm still filling up but they're they're they're frisky. They have they like by reflex. They still shake a little bit like this.

So we said let's pick five start a starting lineup of mark a soul all stars had to the great mark a soul one of my favorite players of all time.

And I will let you go first and then we'll just talk about these guys. So I don't know name name your first. Do you have a captain team captain.

I know the team captain, but this is probably my number one option. This is the guy we're looking forward down the court every time and just to put a little bit of context around my picks.

This I always love this column back at Grayland and what I try to do is it's a numbers free evaluation for the most part.

So it's aesthetics. It's competitive fire. It's two way play. But it's guys who my eyes gravitate towards when I'm watching a screen. And if you took away all the numbers.

The score their stat line for the season, whatever their efficiency numbers are across the year.

Like I just like watching these dudes on a nightly basis. And since we mentioned the hornets.

I'll do a hornet that I feel like doesn't get as much gap here because Lamello gets a lot of highlight reels and conca nipple gets Uber rides from our boss.

But Brandon Miller is a sicko and I love watching them play offense and just I really enjoy first of all the shoulder thing.

I don't know whether he is fighting a war in the future in the Terminator movie or what, but it's a very cool look.

I'm sure it's medically needed, but it is starting to feel kind of like cyborg.

Like I have come to save you Sarah Connor and I take it like he should do the rip Hamilton where he just keeps it forever.

Yeah, I think so. Honestly, like if he's having this kind of season with it.

My favorite move from him is when he just kind of slingshots out of the corner and then gets a handoff out of like, you know, there's running some action at the top of key and he gets a handoff.

And then it's just like that moment when he's deciding, do I want to take a top of the corner three.

Do I want to dive into the lane? Do I want to put this guy on my hip and get contact at feel like I am watching kind of what you were alluding to that early.

Version of Kevin Durant where it's kind of all it's there's a learning process happening, but he's also like there's really nothing I can't do.

The only thing that like you know he's he's had some in and out like injury bad luck, but on a nightly basis when I'm watching a Hornets like first much as Khan is the reincarnation of Clay Thompson and Lamello is so fun.

I really, really find myself focusing on on Brandon.

He does a little bit of everything and their surge basically corresponds almost exactly to him getting healthy and having the best stretch of his the best sustained stretch of his career, the best stretch of his career period.

He's awesome. He's up to 38% from threes and when the playmaking comes with them and you can see him like he kind of sees it. Sometimes he sees it late.

Sometimes he's he telegraphs it a little bit. Sometimes he's a little laborious, but he sees it and he's trying to level up in that sense.

So when that comes look at it's a great pick. I'm just going to let you keep rolling.

Okay. Here's a fun one, which is specifically timber wolf. I owe it to Sunboo.

Oh, so I needed apparently Nikhil Alexander Walker methadone when watching the wolves like I needed something that was two way.

A little pace here, a little bit more aggressive and it was really fun. Just the other night they had a great post game clip with it and he was like.

I'll cut came in and now like I have to like run because he just takes off with the ball and he's like I like to play slow, but it is fun to get like a little bit more of a brisk pace back.

And just watching him out there the two way play is awesome, but this is like.

This is an example of a guy who I feel like has like.

Help me rediscover the timber wolves when I'm watching them because this is a version of the timber wolves that I feel like I was maybe missing for the first half of the season.

He was my number one trade target for them. I said it over and over. I can't believe that I think I manifested it. I held manifest it. He's a perfect fit.

And like look, as much as they were, they have been my sort of sneaky title contender, pretty much all season.

I had come to grips with the fact that that was contingent on them getting one more guy off the bench 20 to 28 more minutes of productive perimeter play off the bench.

They just didn't have enough and he's the perfect guy. They got him. It's great. And I like that you just disqualified Chicago.

But he's just like most Chicago bulls wind up getting treated to the kings. They spend their entire careers in this sort of like two team purgatory of failure.

And this has just been great to watch him go to a Western conference contender. I think they're like five or six and two since they got him.

And he seems to be growing into the role there. And I really enjoy watching him and aunt specifically play together.

I like it. I'm going to give me your third starter.

Okay, this is this was my actually number one draft pick when you gave me this assignment. This is a Stefan castle.

Oh, our first commonalities to find castle is on my team too.

So I wanted you to keep going. I'm like, that we're going to get a match somewhere in my extensive college basketball viewing.

I have over the last couple of years, which is really like I'm lying. I don't watch a lot of college groups.

Castle was a guy I did watch at Yukon and was like, this guy's going to be really good. He's awesome.

And it turns out I was right. It turns out to be like the San Antonio Spurs were right.

I have really loved watching him blossom as a playmaker, which has been kind of surprising given the death they have at guard.

But you know, his assist numbers are up. I love his little lobs. He always seems to be looking for a lob.

He is like a panther when it comes to any loose ball. It seems like it shows up in his hands and it's an immediate break.

I love watching his two to man game with Wembee.

It seems like also this is my favorite period of time in a guard's career where like everything they do seems to happen in the lane.

I love when he just is like getting in there and he's got shooters, but he's like, I might just two hand dunk this thing.

And that is, you know, he's not going to have that forever. I watch guards all the time, just be like, I'm done with that.

We're not trying that anymore, but I'm loving it while it's happening.

He is so fucking powerful going to the basket that almost no matter what you do, you're going to go under a screen because you don't, you're going to dare me to shoot.

You're going to meet me on the other side. He's so fast that he often beats that guy to the spot.

And if it's a tie, the tie goes to the phone castle. He's just going to overpower you and jump.

And I've said this before, he does the thing that not a lot of guards, not a lot of perimeter players have where you jump simultaneously with him to try to block his shot.

And he's still going up when you start coming down. It's like uncanny. And you mentioned the passing.

He's been the best lob passer on the spurs since he walked into door. I don't know how he got so good at lobs.

If he just immediately recognized that dude so tall, I can just float anywhere.

But they have incredible timing and chemistry on their lob plays. And he's starting to do the manipulative pick and roll thing where he uses his eyes and his head to trick defenders into it.

Like, oh, he's going to pass to the roll man. You come in and sink on the roll man. He hits the guy in the corner.

He's dead or the other way around. He's just, and you said the most exciting part of a guard's career is that the paint attacking stuff.

I just feel like we're seeing that in the sense of every game feels like he's discovering something about NBA patterns, NBA defenses, how they work, how to manipulate them, how to exploit them and like stuff that he maybe was like, oh, I can do that. I can throw that pass.

He and Dylan Harper are just huge and competitive and tough and like that game where he guarded Durant and just bodied him up and Durant was like, what, what is this? I don't want any.

This is fucking annoying. Aren't these fouls? They're not fouls. What's happening to me? It was like a landmark game. So he was on my list too. So we have a commonality.

At all A plus season for Stepon Caso. All right. Fourth starter. Okay. VJ.

He was on my, he was on my last cuts. And so now I will see the Florida you to talk about VJ edge comb, but also I know that you probably have some Jared McCain feelings to get off your chest.

I do. You know, I don't think that the Sixers fan base is taking this one well.

To admit that I am I would almost consider myself at this point. I'm a centrist when it comes to the Jeremy can trade and I'm pretty upset.

There is a very vocal online presence that is treating this like we sent Mike Schmidt to the to the Orioles in 1980 in the middle of the season or something.

It is pretty frustrating to watch him so easily slide into the exact role that the Sixers could have used him in on the thunder.

And him hitting big threes in like big moments with Shay right next to him is pretty galling. I understand that like.

You know, there were reasons for getting off of him and that maybe there is I saw that there was this cut the story about like they were they were trying to get coiliner at the at the deadline.

And that would have been part of it. They would have needed the picks, but.

Man, it is it has been pretty stomach turning to watch. I don't know if Jared McCain is going to be a big part of the thunder playoff rotation or how big that rotation is going to be.

Do you think he's going to play like crunchy big minutes in in a playoff series.

I mean, he has shown out to a degree in Oklahoma City already where I think that's much more on the table than it was before when the trade happened.

I thought when the trade happened, this is great for now when all of these guys are injured and they're going to load manage caruso and load manage door and on and on and on.

And in the playoffs, I thought, you know, he'll be a guy that.

You know, the offense needs a little juice in the second quarter throw him in. He'll swing a quarter. He'll swing a game crunch time. I don't know.

I mean, you got Mitchell coming back. Caruso on and on. Now I think it'll obviously be more competitive for him to get minutes.

He sticks out like a sore thumb in that every other player on the team is like an AA plus defensive player and McCain gets out there and the other team is like, all right, we got to hunt him because he's just OK, but just OK on the thunder is like is is a pigeon for us.

And he works hard and but he sticks out like a sore thumb in that sense. And so it'll be interesting to see what diagonal does in real games.

But I think he's going to be part of the rotation and it would not surprise me if he earns actual real minutes in the in like fourth quarters of playoff games if they need offense.

And that's just going to infuriate six or fit look like I do think to your point about centralism.

At the time of the trade, he had played like what 55 games in his NBA career. Yes.

30 of them this season in which he had been kind of buried, kind of disappointing.

Which fans are using to turn on Nick nurse. No. Yes. Yes. And with the right. The scrutiny is on the coach, not the front office. Right.

This guy was sitting here. We didn't use them. And by the way, now Paul George is suspended and like guys are hurt. We can really fucking use charred McCain and Max. He's playing 42 minutes a game.

Leeds league in minutes by a lot. It was 38 last night against the jazz in Philadelphia, which is not great.

Yeah. And they got what they got a bunch of seconds for him to I mean, it's it's a fascinating move for the thunder who are going to have a lot of tricky financial waters to navigate the past the next few years. And he helps them.

But it just it you know, you think I got you think we hit it out of the park with the 16th pick. And he's going to be part of our team for a long time. And now he's not part of the team.

Yeah. I mean, the mathematics or I look, this trade might feel much, much differently. If Mori hadn't had the we feel like we sold high on this player quote.

He can't help. He can't help himself. He just can really really. I don't know if I would say manipulated, but like I think it was robbed of the essence or like what he was sort of meaning.

And he was also very complimentary to McCain in that press conference. But he just that's going to follow him around every time that guy hits a three pointer. It's going to be like, Oh, it looks like they sold high on this guy. You know what I mean? Like and in meanwhile, I think it's been an interesting.

Microscope to put nurse under because if this guy immediately starts playing for the defending champions, what was he doing in practice that nurse was like this. He's in and out of the rotation and going to play for the blue coat coats, you know, from every other week.

It's going to be interesting. And I forgot to even mention jail in Williams among the thunder guys are going back like it. There, there's a world in which he's the 11th guy. And this is no longer a thing. But also, by the way, I forgot to say this during the brand of Miller sections. I'll just say it now.

A couple of weeks ago on this pot, I had Rob Mahoney on. And I said something to the effect of I think this is before Charlotte is when I think five in a row now.

So I think Charlotte is the fifth best team in the Eastern conference when you account for like actual if they get in the playoffs, could they make the conference finals and make a real run.

And they were like 11th or 10th at that probably 10th at that point. They're only 9th now. I think that's like indisputably true now.

I think they're the. It's crazy. I think they're indisputably the fifth best team in Eastern conference. There are only three games behind your sixers in the rage for the six seed.

And they're just qualitatively like I think they're better than I think they're better than Toronto. I think they're the fifth best team in the Eastern conference. The record will not show it because they got off to such a bad start.

And if I were any of these top four teams, any of them, I would be scared to death to play the Hornets in the first round. They're probably wouldn't lose that series.

Like the top four teams will all beat the Hornets or should all beat the Hornets, but it's going to be competitive and scary. And they're going to be games where I mean like they just to your point last night, the Celtics were like, what is this? What are we supposed to do with this team anyway?

VJ VJ. Speaking of my sixers. One of the reasons why the sixers maybe have a weight tied to their foot right now is obviously and beads got the oblique and VJ heard his back.

The other day, he also his biggest highlight of the week was probably kung fu kicking a woman in the front row of of the stands.

Christine. But before that, what a delightful working season. What a like immediately like put them up on a mural. Like I will watch Maxim and edge comb for hopefully years to come.

And the reason why I was so into him aside from his athleticism and his willingness to make a really athletic play when he sees an opportunity is the fact that when he is not in the game, when he is not feeling it, when it's not flowing through him, when he is maybe off.

Ball a little bit more. He still finds ways to contribute like he's not a role player in the sense where he's like, I'll stand on the corner and then I will guard my man on the other. He is in and around the ball.

He is diving and crashing the offensive boards. He's getting putbacks and tap ins or keeping plays alive by like getting second chance rebounds or something like that.

And it's just that little extra is that little extra 10% that you're just like, Oh, that's what that's actually is what changes games is us getting another look at the basket. This guy actually deem somebody up and making uncomfortable for their their number one score.

He's just been such a breath of fresh air and a team that really, really needed it.

He is absolutely ferocious constantly, like he is never not ferocious. He's super competitive.

And if you look at the guys I picked from my team, that's a common ingredient in at least three of them and if not all them, but definitely three of them, including Stefan Castle.

Castle, like Castle will do something so wonderful in a basketball court and just look like the other guy on the other team just kicked his sister shin.

He's just like so pissed and it's just like clearly as like just this competitive fire on a night tonight basis and VJ has it too, but VJ is also a lot of fun and you can tell how much the other guys are keyed off of him.

I think it honestly like, you know, and beat is obviously up and down in terms of his his physical health, but I feel like guys like VJ or I've like revived and beads.

I don't like love of the game, frankly.

Yeah, I mean, we talked the last time you were on about sort of meeting in the middle between those two styles, the ambide style and the super speed demon guard style.

I think they've met in the middle about as well as could be hope for and they all need each other.

Like the team isn't isn't isn't good enough with just the guards in like a replacement level center and ambide's place and vice versa.

The team has been dramatically better with ambide on the floor despite his physical limitations.

All right, last last starter on the CR assault team.

So this one is more weighted towards the beginning of the season, the first half of the season because this post all star break in the last couple

of weeks have been trending in the wrong direction for Derek Queen, but I will stand up for the multiplicity of play styles in this league.

And I don't want to see everybody be six, nine able to shoot and staying out of the lane, doing like exactly the same thing.

I hate the hegemony and I love.

You know, what do we ever do?

Size a cage in Yokech is a dairy queen.

Like, do we ever give him a nickname?

I don't want to get too deep into nicknames because we just talked about VJ and I'm still upset.

I just I'm almost supposed to throw on Yokech around in any nickname discount Yokech diet Yokech.

There's been a couple of diet Yokech is around the league in the last few years.

Sure.

I want to leave him out to the outside.

Derek Queen, we can workshop it.

DQ is good.

I like he's pretty good.

He has since been benched for Deandre Jordan.

So it's not it's not looking great with my my Derek Queen holdings.

But for those brief glorious weeks and months in the beginning part of the season where he was just basically playing YMCA pickup basketball against NBA players and winning.

Individual battles, not necessarily pelicans games.

I just loved it.

I love his court vision as a big man and I love his ball handling and he's just such an interesting player to watch because it shouldn't work and it does.

I agree with you.

He also is kind of hit the rookie wall a little bit, which is which is predictable.

That's a little bit too.

A little bit.

The pelicans are kind of the sneaky interesting watch right now because they clearly don't know exactly sort of how they want to structure their team.

And I talked about this last week with Zion who feels almost like as out of place is a 20 to 25 point of game score can feel on a team.

And then boom against the Lakers the other night now they lost.

They suddenly start Zion at center two games after starting Zion at small forward next to two centers.

And for sure part of this is because they know the Zion queen for five combo just can't survive defensively.

It's just not it's not workable.

But all of a sudden they're playing Zion at the five and I thought that game was really interesting for a couple of results.

I'm going to nerd out for one minute.

Zion set 19 ball screens in that game and was just destroying Deandre and in the pick and roll Deandre and would drop in drop coverage.

Zion would catch a pocket passage out the memories back by the way.

That's helpful.

Yeah.

And Zion was just explode by him for layup after layup and for layup.

That's the most screens he's set in any game this season.

It was like point Zion was dead and buried and pick and roll Zion was like the Zion that was left over on the other side of the floor.

Just just note it.

Just note it.

It's not it's not big.

It's not huge.

There were eight Luca Lebron pick and rolls in that game with Lebron as a screener.

That's the most they've had in any game since the trade of the century that brought Luca to LA.

And I thought Zion actually defended well in that game too.

So a couple just random pelicans notes.

I like watching Derek Queen.

Okay, let's take a quick break and then I'll run through my my starting five and then we'll get a little meener.

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This episode is brought to you by Claude from Anthropic picture.

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solvers choose Claude is their thinking partner. All right, it's time. I'm going to run through my

Marcus Soul All Stars. We already got Stefan Castle. So about a month and a half ago, I did

like a five minute thing on this on Amazon Prime, a TV version of it, and so I'm just qualifying

the five guys that I picked for that. They're all to the side, but those guys were just for the record.

Donovan Mitchell, Isaiah Stewart, and I said when I picked them, I was like, this guy is ready to

start a fight at any moment. And then yeah, just came back last night.

I'm in Thompson, obvious choice. Shade and Sharp, kind of my NBA white whale. Like I just want him,

I want him to be good because he's so crazy to watch. And then Musa Diabate, just because he's

the hardest playing dude in the entire NBA. Yes. So those guys are out. I had Castle. Let's see

who I want to start with. All right, this is a Bill Simmons produced partly podcast. So I will

start with the Celtic Derek White is just you know what Derek White is. He's just a fucking

awesome basketball player. He's and he just plays all the time. He's seven to the league in minutes.

He plays every game. He does everything well. He is relentless as a competitor on both ends of

the floor. Defensively chased down blocks, steals and just just a super, super duper smart player.

Get more aggressive as a score. He's got a nice floater now. It takes tons of audacious

and just plays to win. He's just a winning player. And he's just so goddamn smart. That hornet

came last night. The only Celtics highlight of the whole game was Derek White chasing Brandon

Miller around like three consecutive screens on a pick and roll as Brandon Miller was trying to

just get away from him. And he couldn't really do it. And then he finally went around the screen,

started dribbling to the right wing on a pick and roll. And Derek White was trailing him,

except Derek White read exactly what Brandon Miller was going to do. He peeled out to the shooter

on the right wing and the guy on that shooter. I think it was Shireman peeled in and took Brandon

Miller and Brandon Miller was like, what's happening? Why are these guys changing this? And pass to the

shooter and Derek White just yanked it out of the air and went the other way. He sees every opportunity

on both ends of the floor. He sees the extra pass that's going to be two passes away before

he even gets the ball. He sees the driving alley that's going to open for him when the ball swings

his way before anyone else does. He is maybe like my favorite basketball players, basketball

player in the NBA. Derek White, any comments or should I just keep going? I also enjoyed him last

day is the only real like Celtics like highlight of last night's game against the Hornets.

Just an awesome player. I actually nominated him as an all-star and then he went into like a

three-week shooting summit and made me look like an idiot. I think he had a real all-star case this

year. All right, so he's in. I talked about Castle. This is going to be almost too predictable.

Did you consider Josh Hart at all? I didn't. I did not consider any next but

this is worthwhile. I don't know when you want to talk about the thunder but it was very

interesting to watch that that thunder next game last night. So go ahead with Josh Hart.

Just the same you know when I used to play pick up basketball now and then I used to like to play

fast. I like I just it was just more fun to play fast and it was more fun to play with other players

who wanted to play that way. Josh Hart would just be a delight to play with. He looked he plays

like a guy who's a he wants to win badly but B is just like I love basketball. Let's run and pass

to each other and cut and like make fun plays and I'm going to rebound. I'll crash in and get rebounds

because it's just fun to do that now. Outwork people. He plays hard every second is on the floor.

Everyone knows about the crazy end-to-end transition rushes that sometimes end with him falling

out of bounds and that kind of hurts the next good passer good passer in any situation like good

good he doesn't think in transition where he dribbles really hard to the rim knowing everyone's

coming at me and then I know where my trailers are he's a good passer in the half court. He's also

one of the most interesting pivot points in the league for a contending team and last night's

thunder next game which we cannot talk about was an interesting example of that. So the next every

other game are going to face this strategy where the other team puts their center on Josh Hart

and puts a wing on cat to the point for the simple reason of we're going to switch every cat

pick and roll so he can't pop for three and we're going to let Josh Hart's guy be our shop blocker

who roams around and on some nights the nicks have figured that out pretty well. There was a recent

game I talked about in regards to that and on other nights it gums them up and last night was and

it gums them up night and the nicks not only did the the thunder started two big men and they

didn't put either them on Carl Anthony Towns Hardenstein guarded Josh Hart and Chad Holmer and

guarded a combination of Andanobi and Bridges sometimes and Lou Dort guarded cat and we're going

to do our antagasol all stars in a second two great candidates for the antagasol all start and

when both when both of them are together it's like a lurch fest just just the Frankenstein lurch fest

but I wish we could have set those guys to like battle world from X-Men where I would just

like it's just the two of them like working their dark arts on one another and the nicks couldn't

quite find the right combination of sets and plays and screens to to sus that defense out and

ended up limiting Josh Hart's minutes for the guts of the game and putting shaman in his place

which is a version of like the dousmic bride and all shooting lineup that a lot of an experience

of clambered for so I think he's interesting in lots of different ways but obviously the big

event of that game was Shay Gildes Alexander committing what should have been his third foul on a

charge on Jalen Brunson who always gets the benefit of the doubt on block charge calls and I guess

the two colliding benefits of the doubt ended up going Shay's way Mike Brown goes bananas because

it would have taken Shay out of the game for a long time gets his only technical of the season and

then afterwards becomes the latest coach in his post game press conference to basically be like

yeah Shay gets all the calls you can't touch them it's really frustrating and just like Bill and

I have been talking about this it's this it's this bubbling sensation around the league that like

other teams are rooting against the thunder for like 10-12 different reasons like when a coach says

something like that I get messages from teams around the league and like all kudos to Mike Brown

right what a crazy night I thought that the they're definitely seems to have been a group chat

between these guys where it's just like we're gonna turn up the heat because it feels like the

thunder on national television a lot right now going down the stretch I feel like there's more

attention being paid to this these big crunch time games that feel like there's so much scrutiny

and that it's just it's one thing for the thunder to get this reputation as not getting any

to be having a really like tight whistle for Shay I think the flip side of it is the aggression

of their defenders on the other end of the floor so either one would be enough but the fact that

there is this perception that the thunder have all the all the leniency in the world to bear hug

guys and it gets funny I know you don't follow the Premier League but this is really reminding me

of what's happening with Arsenal right now in the Premier League so Arsenal used to

incredibly beautiful high quality passing possession football club and over the years have

basically populated the roster with giants and have decided that what they are gonna do is exploit

this inefficiency of if we put 10 six foot two guys in the penalty box on every set piece on every

corner kick the percentages say we're gonna score and they are basically I'm gonna get some heat

from this but they are corner kicking their way to a Premier League title right now they're

gonna probably win the title and people are losing their minds about it it's unfair it's shithouse

football they're cheating we're not allowed to do this if you touch Arsenal they fall on the ground

but Arsenal grapples everybody in the box and they it is a not dissilar from the way that the

thunder went from what a cute story to oh these guys are absolute cheaters on every aspect of the

of the court and I think if they just if it wasn't for the fact that nobody seems to be able to

touch Shay but Dort seems to be able to muscle guys off the floor it might be a different thing

but it definitely feels like there's like a it's it's gone out the email has been sent

first of all a great cross-sport comparison and I'm interested to watch Arsenal one of my good

buddies Jimmy shout out Jimmy as a huge Arsenal fan Jimmy is not gonna like my my characterization

of I know what not he said that is Liverpool fans so what are you gonna do he's pretty even killed

and and I think he'd be like you know what he's probably right um I think you apps this look this

is about a lot of things right it's about envy for sure um it's about style of play like

people just don't think the thunder or that fun to watch on offense it's it's it's like a it's

robotic and it's efficiency the way Shay plays you get that everyone so I I talked about this

before Christmas with Howard Beck and I even used the word villain about the thunder um but I think

it's it's about the idea that they are tattling on the jazz for tanking when they themselves also

have tanked in the past and I have said repeatedly like no one from the I mean this and I would

say it if it were true no one from the thunder has called me about Utah and being the Utah police

so there may be calling other people but they're not calling me so I can't speak to it but I think

more than anything else it's about their defense and you just nailed it they are very quietly

they have the 11th lowest opponent free throw rate in the NBA this year as fouls have been called

more and free throws are going up it's affected everybody but the thunder and it's like last year

they fouled a lot and they had a high opponent free throw and that makes sense considering the

physicality which they play with now it's like the rising tide of foul fouls have like lifted

all boats that they're all they're on the same level as everybody else and I think that really

more than Shay who's free throws are really not out of whack for a guy who has the ball

as much as he doesn't is as crafty as he is I think it's about about their defense so that's

it's a great call all right I got two more guys uh to get to I think right I'll just do it fast

knives read just big jelly doesn't even need to be explained he had back-to-back transition

baskets like coast to coast baskets against I don't even remember who they played him I'd have

been Portland that were just outrageous for a large person to be able to do them one of them was

a cross a right to left crossover in the lane and lefty flick hook that literally it they could

have done the looney tunes like twinkle toes sound effect as he did it and it would have been fitting

it was so like belletic and and uh artful and then my last one is read shepherd uh wow

yeah I just like he he's a pretty audacious shooter and passer like he'll throw these like a lefty

30-foot bullets to guys under the rim no look and he's obviously like a great great great pull-up

shooter the percentage them born it out but the shots he takes are pretty outrageous and in fun

way and he's just like oxygen for the rockets offense like he's just every it's like everyone is

crammed in a tight room and then someone opens the door to another room and the whole crowd can

spread out into two rooms that's what read shepherd feels like to the rockets offense just oxygen

and defensively the dude makes plays like people pick on him but he blocks shots he's getting in there

for rebounds he's swiping for steals so that's my other starting five after my initial starting five

on ambison and I have a lot of honorable mentions but no one that I really really hurt me

can I ask you a quick question conference vibe check question yeah do you feel like

so do you feel like that first of all that the rockets have kind of steadied the boat from

whatever rocky waters they were on a couple weeks ago and am I wrong to get be getting excited

about this t wolf surge because I feel like this is this is again these guys are like rounding

into shape right when they need to be rounding into shape and are playing their best ball right when

they need to be playing their best ball so you're asking the wrong guy about the t wolves because I've

been almost unreasonably high on them all season and I just think anti-air wards is just a specimen

of basketball scoring greatness and defensive greatness when he locks in and so I'm not surprised

of anything the wolves are doing you're not wrong to be excited about them I think they have the third

they are they they play them it's like them they I put them behind the full strength nuggets if

we ever see them again in a thunder but they play both those teams pretty well I love the wolves

the rockets I guess have have have studied a little bit not in a way that makes me

more confident than them than the other teams that we just named um I don't really know why

that is I've watched a lot of the recent games they've had some good wins um I don't know they've

seemed to have gotten past the uh text thread thing they have good for them I mean they just

seems like the story of their season is going to be a team a team that was missing a point card

you know hey look man I know friend groups where one text gone awry has messed up the friend group

forever so kudos to the maturity now those friend groups don't like have mandated hangouts 82 times a

year but but still okay we also chose for fun anti-gasole all stars and you chose a coach uh

I think a good-gasole coach a good-gasole coach you give me your good-gas I didn't pick a coach

so give me your coach and then give me your anti-all star but it's it's Missoula

Missoula just because a obviously like he is uh concocting like a phenomenal season out of what most

teams would have considered a write-off you know if you had told me that the Celtics were closer to

the Pacers this season I would have believed it in terms of like what their outlook might have been

without Tatum now obviously a brown and like the way that he has been able to construct this team

which to me has actually been and don't tell Bill I said this slightly more entertaining than

in previous iterations of the Celtics to watch this year's Celtics and also just on a on a um

content level is reliably I just have never I never have any idea about what he's going to say

when he gets asked the most vanilla question Joe would you see out there he could say nothing I

saw nothing my eyes were closed or he could start talking about Samurai's you know what I mean like

he basically yeah exactly and I knew that we were in for something special when he did the the

infamous coaches versus journalist pickup game at the beginning of the year I was like this guy

is now we're in performance art territory this is really like he's got a ring and now he's

playing around a little bit it's really exciting to see yeah you don't like I know Joe

decently well and sometimes I still I feel like maybe now I don't like is this an Andy Kaufman

kind of thing going on right now like I'm not really but it is it is fascinating and he is

indisputably a great coach and they're getting Jason Tatum back and that to me does nothing more

than raise their ceiling and I'll say this Mizzou would either be the best podcaster in America

like if you had a pod it would just be absolute must hear 60 minutes every episode or

absolutely the worst it would either be like Joe no selling things and you know you're like hey Joe

what do you think about this to help tanking you be like don't care don't care just play and then

the pie would be over after three minutes I was gonna say could could be a three minute pod or it

would well and if it was a three minute pod it might be like the short form content that we all crave

and it would be amazing but he also has in him like you can just tell like his the his amount of

interests do we ever get to the bottom of whether or not he was actually entering judo tournaments

under a different name was that true I don't even know about this was a thing I think this was a

story a year or two ago where he was like what did you do in your off season and it was like he

was going to Florida and entering entering martial arts tournaments and if that's not true don't

tell me because I want to believe it I mean I now I'm obsessed with this I mean the amount of

Missoula stories that are out there is just endless and none of them would would surprise me so

he's your coach I think that's a great choice if I had to choose a coach and I couldn't choose

Joe Missoula for just now we're talking fun style team play how does the team play and I can't

choose Missoula I think I think I might have to go Mitch Johnson just because the spurs are

so fun to watch I don't know the the pistons are fun to watch but not that fun but that would be

I don't have a good choice all right so now let's get a little a little not nice anti anti-gasole

all stars guys that we hate watch we don't have to double the labor this because you've spent a lot

of time in the last couple episodes you talked about it with Mo I I'm just like kind of out I'm

watching Luca I as a as a Los Angeles Lino resident Los Angeles resident he is on a lot he I flip

channels there's Luca and there's Luca yelling at refs and there's Luca having just all-time bad

body language I get it I know why my buddy Jason Gallagher is such a huge fan I know why people

worship him I know why he saved the Dallas Mavericks and why if you were Lakers fan you'd be like oh

my god we got so lucky 10 more years of relevance with another all-time great player but it's just

not for me man I just can't watch it the style play is not my favorite but it's also the vibe I just

I just don't like guys screaming at refs all the time he was on my long list for all those reasons

and I crossed them off because I think it's so much in the discourse now that it's it's it's

it's just out there and also he just has a baseline level of genius as a passer that is still

I can I can on the right night wade through the rest of it to see 15 passes that are going to

blow my mind or look simple but the timing and precision of them is not simple at all and more

than the scoring more than the fact that he's shooting like a preposterous percentage from two

point range mid-range more than the step back threes that on the right night it's a show and on the

wrong night you're like can you maybe pass now like that was like five step back threes and eight

possessions yeah it's the passing that I can't I can't I can't quit and that was your that was your

one guy right yeah that's my my antica soul so he was on my list I ended up picking three because

that was that was my goal um band caro is on there and it's more an indictment on the team

than him personally although someone shooting 37% on mid-range shots should not be taking nearly

as many did you see the band caro and mostly teta teta that happened I didn't it was after the

Detroit game that they they lost by a lot on Sunday I think and uh band caro said the following

in his post game press conference teams a lot of times adjusted half time and I think that's why

we struggle a lot in the second half just because we don't really adjust to their adjustments

not great not great last time I remember a player talking about his coach not making any adjustments

was Anthony Davis with Darwin Ham and Darwin Ham was not the coach of the Lakers for much longer

that's right I remember that and then Jamal Mosley the next day it shoot around or at practice

rather said the one adjustment that Detroit made last night they just played a little harder

there was no schematic adjustment that they made this does not seem to be going great

now for anyone in the franchise and I've said it before if they don't salvage this season and I

don't think they're going to I don't know what the changes are going to be I can we can just predict

like who's under the most pressure what trades are possible this and that but this just ain't working

and that is and you can try to clean that up and say like Luca and JJ reddicted with like an in-game

thing like that heated the moment I'm more liable to believe JJ when he says like that's just

something that happens we have a good relationship that is post game you've had a chance to calm down

a little bit and you decide to go into a microphone and pretty much throw your coach under the bus

and then the coach the next day gets the microphone in front of him and he's like no you simply

hard enough basically yeah yeah not great um I you know DeMar de Rosen used to be one of my favorite

guys to watch in the NBA I'm I'm 48 I'm the right age to get seduced by mid-range artistry

when you watch the Kings and I get it it's not about him it's the young guys let Maxine Max Sumerino

let Max Sumerino take all the shots he wants let Nick Clifford take all the shots he wants

Demar is just like going through the motions is almost generous it's it's just like he's out there

jogging and like oh I got a shoot this time because okay I'll shoot fine like uh then you look at

the box where it's like 32 minutes three of five six points like what DeMar de Rosen took five

shots in a game is there is there bio potential for DeMar I think he has a his contract for next

season is very partially guaranteed so yes and and or trade him to a relevant team for a good

swan song by the way I mean we all said it as the season was going on and now he's playing on a

team in Cleveland that is playing really really well the fact that the Kings had Keon Ellis yes

could have extended Keon Ellis and didn't even play him and thought so lowly of him that hey

were the worst team in the NBA and you can't even get on the floor for us why are 29 other teams

calling us all the time about this guy don't you realize he can't even play for us and now he's

helping the calves who are playing like the best team in the East for the last three weeks and had

a proof of concept win to me against the Nick's last week that was a very important game for the

calves I've thought about it before just preposterous should I just read a list of guys who are on my

anti-aggressor list okay well some of them I know and it's just mean I don't want to should I

just be mean I mean Russ is always on there for me yaka fertile oh really what are you doing here

what is it what are you yaka why are you just never playing Patrick Williams just just potential

unrealized just like your high school friend who was captain of the team had you know good grades

and is now pumping gas at the gas station because he couldn't stop drinking I've not always said

the email too early when he's like you guys coming back for Thanksgiving beers no I mean dominate

and nerdgitch I put the asses on just for fun like okay you just sit down man like you're like

you're not the captain just sit down miles Turner just yeah that's like we did all we did all

this for you yeah um then I got some like I have the beholder guys like I think Julius Randall's

and I have the beholder guy like some people might hate watching him some people might like watching

him who's who who's the pro Julius Randall guy like give me give me what's his mindset when he's

watching Julius Randall uh the nights when he has like eight assists and you're like that's what I

want to see bull and he also has nights where he just I mean talk about NBA bullies where he just

fucking trucks people and they are legitimately like there's no flopping involved he legitimately

just threw you into the basket stanchion and dunk uh you know on the similar to Luca I haven't

really enjoyed the denny obvious show this year it's it's a lot of free throw baiting not baiting

it's just so he gets fouled a lot and he's whining all the time to the refs he's on my list

um and then there's like I do like do you like watching jail in Brunson I do but I think he's

and I have the beholder guy I don't love it I don't I honestly like I have scar tissue from playoff

series and you know it's I think if you go through cheering against Brunson in a playoff series

it's hard to come out on the other side and be like that man has my respect you know like

it's it's a tough it's a tough pill swallow. Joel and beat I have the whole I have the

beholder guy and I and I am willing I'm willing to to to offer that grace to anyone who wants to

say that about Joel it's got to be tough uh I the skill level is still so crazy to me that I can

I can stomach be uh rip through moves and the falling over um and then there's some other guys by the

I'll also be big enough to throw Paul George in there I mean he's just I crossed off the guys

who are all basically like out like Jordan pool was on my list so I think Jordan pool one of only

two or three guys who have gotten called for flopping this year the like the NBA kind of forgot

that that's a rule and it got so bad one game that the entire opposing bench was doing the flop

thing or like the fourth time and the ref was like fine you're you're flopping um by the way just

for you I will say that I'm my honorable mentioned uh pro gusol all stars kelly breud Jr just

playing hard all the time yeah really getting this up to this exercise I'm glad we kept them uh

before I let you go um the other hot controversy this year in the this week in the NBA was Luke

Cornett versus magic city do you have any uh do you have a ruling judgment in the Luke Cornett

versus magic city controversy the hawks for people who don't know are holding a magic city night

it honoring the look what they described is the local landmark institution magic city which is

also a strip club uh and they're going to serve the wings that they are famous for they're going to

have hoodies that the hawks have branded it made before they're going to have the clubs DJ play

uh the music at the game ti is going to perform and uh Luke Cornett uh wrote a statement

objecting to this and saying that the the NBA should strive to esteem women and this is the

opposite of that and it sparked a lot of country my green is weighed in I'll horrify his weighed in

what does Chris Ryan think of this well uh first of all I want to say shout out to Jamie Gertz uh

star of lost boys and twister who is apparently a huge proponent of this magic city honorarium

I spent some time on Luke Cornett's blog this morning uh which I had not done so first of all

shout out to Luke Cornett for staying on medium uh the ringer originally published on medium you can

still do highlights I think it's kind of fun that like there's a guy out there is like I'm

going to write a blog post every six months and just kind of let people know how I'm feeling

if you go back and read other Luke Cornett missives he is a very spiritually guided person

the his anti magic city stance is pretty in line with his you went deep you were religious beliefs

and if you look at it in that context it's not that surprising I I did really enjoy the anecdote

I believe uh I heard about Cornett like blogging in the locker room after the game and like getting

in under the deadline and posting um yeah I'm I guess I'm broadly pro magic city as a a guy of

sports small businesses you know uh but but I you know I I think that this is one where

it's a slow news week somehow even though we've got an arm conflict going on in the Middle East

that we're talking about Luke Cornett this morning uh yeah true fair I hate to break it

to Luke Cornett I checked in with the hawks shortly before this podcast and magic city

denied is on course to occur on March 16th there are no there there there is no going back

apparently for magic city and I despite the Luke Cornett led I would imagine they were like

Luke Cornett thank you for the publicity and and I the person I was talking with the hawks was

like what kind of like like what trying to suss out why I was asking whether it was still going on

and why I was like what what is your interest in this and I texted back I was like I just think

Luke Cornett versus magic city is objectively a funny thing to talk about. I wish it was the

supreme court case yeah it's a basketball supreme court as I got Chris CR what's the we're

having a tournament right to decide which is your last free watchable yeah this is exciting because

like in while doing the secario pod because we were finishing it up we were talking about what should

be the fifth movie I think we've got four of them already planned and we had so many ideas that

Bill was like March madness let's make a bracket and it was like watching

Bill's like bird mastermind activate where it's like we're going to do an 80s an 80s region an

action region and it was just really fun so that's on the rewatchables instagram you can go vote I

think goonies goonies might be like the runaway champ but there's some nice guys fans out there

some sorcerer fans out there I'm happy to do anything nice guys is Gosling Russell Crowe

detectives super super fun movie yeah super fun movie um what's up with your what's up with

your your what catching up with movies while walking things so palatine movies although

I because I've decided I my I've decided a there's just a lot of holes in my movie movie dumb

and I like movies I don't have a lot of free time I used to use my palatine time to listen to NBA

podcasts because I learned that way and I've decided it's healthier from my brain to set the NBA

aside for a little bit catch up I'm not an ideal way to watch movies like 45 minute chunks not

a great way to watch movies I realize but what else am I going to do so here are some that I have

done I did zodiac in conjunction with you guys I had seen zodiac in the theater and loved it but I

had not rewatched it I did that I just did the trial of the Chicago seven which is relatively new

okay Fargo which I know is near and dear to your heart I did not rewatch but I bring that up

because what's the the ball guy's name is John Carol Lynch I think who's a commonality between

all of these movies I hope that guy has like a billion dollars everything that he's in he's

absolutely incredible and I want him to be the wealthiest like character actor or whatever he is

you know movie earlier this year called or last year called sorry babies he's awesome and yeah

he's John John Carol Lynch I think I'm getting his name right you're you're awesome you're like my

favorite actor now um let's I did a complete unknown uh the post villain movie uh I did

dune I got to dune two now should I read dune it made me want to read dune I have it read dune um I

think that it are you as a fantasy sci-fi big book like I can I can be I I it with limits like I'm

never going to read game of thrones and I don't quite understand I just it seems like too much

okay uh dune I would probably I would probably wait for the third one to come out this year and

then decide if you want to continue because it gets pretty weird after the second one it starts to

get pretty strange yeah uh a movie I had never seen before uh the conversation with Jean

Hackman was recommended in language now brother yeah uh I tried the rip this Netflix mad damon

Ben Affleck thing yeah not a fan okay not just like I just feel like I've seen how many of this

movie can I see of potentially 30 cops with a plot twist zodiac in the conversation like you're

in a little bit of a uh a 70s conspiracy thriller zone that's a good zone for me uh have you done

all the presidents men I have many times did you ever do the parallax view with Warren Beatty

no it's a good one okay that's a good one same director is all the president's been

and this one you're going to be shocked that I have not seen this as a media person and I finally saw

broadcast news oh yeah did you really good time yeah really good time do you find that the um

tone of the film affects your workout uh no I'm just I'm just a mediocre or it's just mediocre

across the board there's sometimes where I have to pay more attention and so I probably slow down

on the bike because I'm super into a scene and I'll pay attention so it's probably not it's

not a good way to watch movies I get that this the the cinema the cinema people will be like no

you're supposed to sit in a theater for the entire two and a half hours I get it I should

and now I am doing in honor of CR month uh I'm rewatching cicario which is even better than I remember

yes cicario uh has just only like grown in my estimation over the years yeah it was really

awesome to do that pod to to be able to get into it with bell and shawne all right CR you got a lot

of stuff to do thanks for uh lending us some time and good luck to you man good luck to your sixers

and bad luck to your uh Phillies this episode is brought to you by michaalob ultra when you pull off

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clawed from anthropic picture this your hours into trying to make the perfect trade for your fantasy

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All right, let's bring in one of my favorite people in the NBA to talk about one of my NBA homes

away from home with team I haven't talked about so much this year at least in a deep dive sense

because they enter the year as the weirdest team in the NBA to me I've spent I don't know five

months trying to figure them out they're still kind of weird they're clearly good they're fifth in

the east they are your and my Toronto Raptors and the one and only Jack Armstrong TSN legend

is it in the house how you doing sir. Jack I'm great buddy thanks for having me on excited

to chat a little raptors with you. Can you just give me a hello just just just give me one hello

here we go hello yes one of the when I say this with full of there are people in life that you

may only see two three four times a year you may only see him for five minutes at a time in those

times they just make you feel good about yourself about life about what you're done what you're doing

and Jack Armstrong is one of those people so it's wonderful to have you on back thank you so much

the checks in the mail it's good I like that there you go how many year you're like you're you go

are you you're not year one raptors but you're close right. I'm in my 28th year as a

boycaster for the raptors my first game was Vince Carter's first game in Boston and the guy

and the other team making his debut was Paul Pierce so two whole of famous and I actually coach

against Paul Pierce when I was a head coach in the agri we played Kansas at Allen Fieldhouse

needless to say we got a rescue but it was pretty cool to watch those two guys start

into career and obviously being with the raptors that that first year with Vince the raptors

the first three years had a tough time as a franchise but he honestly put Toronto on the map

it was literally like traveling with you know the Beatles or Elvis so whatever whatever we want to

describe it it got to a point like when he won the dunk dunk contest and those first few years

it just absolutely took off and it was just so so I'm very fortunate that I kind of hitched

on to that wagon we were kind of a startup company at that point and so I hitched on at the

right time and here I am 28 years later and I love it I still enjoy it every day it's a it's a joy

well Jack and Matt Devlin on play by play one of the iconic broadcast duos in the league they play

off of each other very well they make me laugh they go on tangents I it's all a delight the raptors

Jack Armstrong you were there I was there it's been seven years almost since the Toronto raptors one

their first NBA title their only NBA title the last pre-COVID NBA title hard to believe about that

and it has been a would you say a wayward sometimes rocky sometimes unpredictable journey in those

last seven years yeah I mean considering the fact I have made the playoffs the last three years

had four the last five years and they were they were the ones most affected by the COVID crisis

because they had to relocate the Tampa and everyone else was able to at least play in their home

venues so I think things kind of got thrown out of whack and and you know you look at that team

in 2019-20 the year after the NBA title they had the third best record in the NBA when the league

shut down they were fabulous and that's without Kauai let it and Danny Green and a Makasoul who

was another year older and kind of really starting to show the effects but that team had such

incredible chemistry I really felt if COVID didn't happen I thought that team even without

great Kauai let it could have gotten back to the NBA finals I don't know if they were good

enough to win it but they could have maybe gotten back and I think with Kauai they would have been

back in the finals and theoretically could have won it again so it was so unfortunate that

things shut down and from that point on it became a really difficult journey for the franchise

two years later they made the playoffs 148 games and lost to the sixes and six but beyond that

it's been a tough road. So that 2020 team the year after team is one of my all-time favorite sort

of sub finals NBA teams I thought they played a beautiful brand of basketball they all lifted

each other up they were greater than the sum of their parts and they really responded from

what should have been a gut punch free agent departure by playing beautiful inspired basketball

and like objectively absolutely they could have made the finals they lost in the second round to

Boston in seven games that's a series or OGN and OB hits that crazy shot at the buzzer to keep

them alive what was that game three I think to keep them alive in the series and Boston then

loses to Miami who did everyone the favor of eliminating the number one seed Milwaukee in the

first round they could have absolutely made the finals it's also the only Raptors team in these

seven years that is one a playoff series that was their one-playoff series win over Brooklyn I

think and I'm just going to read you some of the things that have happened to Toronto to some of

the moves made not made and just sort of illustrating how crazy this has been so the gradual breakup

of that team I'm going to be out of order on some of these but just bear with you Kyle Lowry gets

traded for precious to Shua and Goran Dragoch Fred Van Vley walks in free agency they didn't have

a great trade offers for him I didn't really mind them kind of running out the string with Fred

Van Vley arguably waited a beat too long to trade both Pascal Siakum and OGN and OB got okay returns

for both of them and in both of those trades kind of aimed at well in the NN OB trade clearly aimed

at like we want the middle ground build kind of players slightly younger slightly cheaper not

dramatically so in either case but Emmanuel quickly who I think on balance has been a little

worse than they expected when they got him an RJ Barrett who I think on balance has been

probably a little better than expected when they got him Siakum they trade for Bruce Brown at a

bunch of picks that in a roundabout way kind of becomes brand in Ingram who they then pay right

away a big extension that is both big and short he's lived up to it but it's got a player option

coming up pretty soon there is the controversial Yaka Burdle trade where they go semi all in on a

500 middling team and it costs them the number eight pick in the draft the next year which is

Rob Dillingham and then they extend Pearl last summer on a big money contract extension with Mr.

Jack Armstrong I called the most inexplicable move the offseason when I was giving out my offseason

awards the draft not been super kind to them since the Tampa tank for Scotty Barnes which was a great

inspired pick they picked Scotty Barnes over Jalen Suggs and as much as their actors like to talk

about sort of building up from the middle which is what they've been trying to do when you look at

their win totals from the last five years it really all started with all right this Tampa thing

this is a law season for us we're going to use it to rebuild we had some injuries and they get

Scotty Barnes out of it um Grady Dick is currently out of the rotation the Malachi Flynn pick didn't

work out Jacoby Walters all right mobile is all right I think Murray Boyles has a chance

and if he just would he's do you notice does it drive you crazy Jack that he'll get the ball

under the rim and sometimes like not even look at the rim I say that all the time by Frank yes

the thing I love about him is he's so selfless he thinks past first and I think he's just

trying to fit in with his teammates and I hope as he gets a little older he gets a little more

selfish a little more greedy when the ball gets to him in the post but he is a fabulous passer

out of there so I do think that that'll come but I think he's got a chance to be a plus defender

I think he already is one very nice so he can guard multiple positions he's got great strength

he's got tremendous lateral quickness um he covers a lot of ground and I tell you what when you

put him and Scotty Barnes on the floor this switchability and range of coverage is is as good as it

gets I would I would say two names I don't want to just mention to you I know one of them for sure

I know one of them for sure is going to be Jamal Shed well no I'm actually you talk about the moves

they made one that you missed was uh Norm Powell Gary Trent Jr. That's on my list I was going to

bring that one people for people forget about that one go ahead Norm Powell uh I love Norm Powell

and I thought he did a great job year in year out growing as a player he's a Jim Rat and when they

made the move to get a little younger with Gary Trent I think sometimes you'll think yourself

and you know you start putting the numbers in and the salaries and ages and upside and all these

things and you don't appreciate what you have there you know it's well let me say you can't

be a prophet in your own village right and I think sometimes you take the people that are there

for granted and I think Norm Powell was one of those people uh and then the second name you mentioned

Jacobi Walter I think he has a chance to be a little better than you said he's got to get stronger

though uh I think he shoots the three pretty good I think he covers well uh you know we had a game

in Oklahoma City back in January I thought he did a fabulous job going to shank Hill to

South Exander uh who obviously is a great great player so he showed me a lot and he's a little

tougher than he looks uh he's just got to get stronger he has a really difficult time with

physicality playing through physicality but I think it's he gets stronger and uh I I think he's

got a chance to be pretty good uh but the Norm Powell one I know you had mentioned it but the

Norm Powell one to me um is very subtle but you know you look at where Gary Trent is right now

from Milwaukee and he doesn't even play and and Gary was with Gary was a decent player for the

Raptors um but nonetheless I think when you look at what Norm has become and what Norm was at the time

that was a tough one yeah that was also money right I think they were afraid that his

his next contract was going to be much bigger than Gary's and and sometimes you make decisions

for that and the as is they're basically at the tax the next the next two seasons um and by the

way when I go through the draft picks like it's so easy to do this like Malachi Flynn was what 29

Grady Dick was 13 and you can go nitpick Lola Kionte George was a couple picks after a Grady Dick

but like so was Kobe Bufkin like above and below all of these guys you can find good players

and guys who kind of washed out and did nothing so it's it's you you can't just bring up the

uh the good what if she got to bring up the bad what ifs as well and Murray Boyles will be an

interesting one because there are some really good players Cedric Howard's right behind him Derek

Queens right behind him the Carter Bryant kid in San Antonio has a chance to be a 3&D monster

but I like CMB the whole point of this is it's just been sometimes you can tell what the raptors

are aiming for sometimes it's a little confusing what the raptors are aiming for but either way

they have aimed and they have produced a team that is nine games over 500 solidly number five in

the east um and just sort of I just kind of still don't really know what this team is particularly

offensively I've when I watch them I focus mostly on the offense because their defense to me

is legit they're long they're rangy they play super hard they close out like maniacs I think I

looked up some stat where their opponents half court possessions are the longest in the NBA because

they just make you make so many passes and so many drives. Portal is back his rim protection

hasn't written nothing about him has been the same with all these back injuries but you know you

hope that his rim protection sort of studies that part of their defense their defense to me is like

I don't worry too much about it it's it's pretty solid offensively I got to give Darko

right out of it's credit and that's like another thing that happened in all of this time they

moved on from Nick Nurse and they moved on from Messiah Jerry like franchise icons and Darko has

made the most out of a strange brew of offensive players whose skill sets don't really on paper fit

all that well they are only 16th and offense that's actually maybe a hair better than I thought

they were gonna be but they they just find ways to squeeze out points so teach us what are they

doing that works on offense because on paper they don't have a lot of shooting they don't have a lot

of threes they have guys like RJ Ingram Barnes all quote unquote need the ball so does the manual

quickly like how if they may and and their screen setting sort of rock in the middle of it

hurdle has missed most of the season so how have they made this work coach I'm calling you coach

it's called you coach you're still coach once the coach always a coach a few things first of all

turnover margin is a huge factor for them they have to they have to win that they have to create

pace they have to create man advantage opportunities and transition they got to get out in the break

they got a you know beat you by 10 12 14 points in terms of fast break points they must get

opportunities before you set your defense and I think to your point about their defense I think

scheme wise I think they've done as good a job as you possibly can with the personnel that they have

and they have a few guys that definitely are not plus defenders that aren't even neutral defenders

that they've tried to hide and scramble and gamble and they're active and they find a way

so that's helped their offense it's propped it up uh but here's here's the most important thing

about playoff basketball uh as you know the game slows down and and you can look at certain

numbers and say well it doesn't but the the possessions that really matter when push comes

you're going five on six man you're going a lot of times against the shock lock that's the

sixth defender and you're going deep into the clock and now can you grind out something in a half

what's setting against a set defense that knows what you're running as well as what you're

as well as you do and I think that's where their problems are at right now you look at how they

played Tuesday night against the next you look at their games against top 10 competition there's

the thing I you probably know the record off the top of your head this is the big I think it's

414 if I'm not mistaken big picture like zooming way out and we'll go back to this but big picture

you're hitting on the most important thing which is like it's a good team yeah I'm not sure if even

if this course stays together and grows together for two years after this I'm not sure I really see

the roadmap to a great team with this group and and it's because I just don't know what

unlocks a really truly good offense and and their record against the best teams and even

they're under 500 against teams above 500 like it just something just is a little bit missing and

I don't really see the easy pathway other than they have all their picks they have everything to

trade they'd get in on y'allness maybe they'd get they were you know they would they were a team

to monitor for sure and they'll be of team to monitor for that player other players in the future

but it's it's a talk talk about the the record the latest one being the nicks and they play the wolves

tonight against what what's going on in those games well Zach a few things they play the wolves tonight

and you know Miami and Orlando have easier games tonight let's say Toronto loses and those

other two win suddenly things get really interesting five through eight in the conference and now

you look at what Charlotte's doing and even Atlanta starting to play a little bit better I look

this I looked this up today just to prepare for this and I'll let you go all the so there's these

fancy projection systems that slot teams into their most likely seeds most of them have Toronto

about 40% chance to be the fifth seed 20 to 25% chance to be the sixth seed so there's

and like a tiny percentage to be the fourth seed so that leaves like 25 30% of what you're talking

about like you they got a like they got a lock in because the play in is is looming there as a

realistic thing and and you're hitting the dangers on correct and that's and that's my point and

now you have another game on the road tonight the raptors have been a much better team on the road

that 19 and 10 on the road they're 500 at home which is really odd so maybe in a whole

problem tonight but the the issue is with and and look I've always done this my whole coaching

and now broadcasts are always evaluating how are you against the top four teams in each conference

even the top eight if you're not a playoff team how'd you do against the top eight

and in Toronto's case is a five seed you go okay you know you you I think they're the 11th best

team in the league so you look at the 10 teams north of you and how do you stack up what are you

doing and the thing that jumps off the page at me to your point is from a roster perspective

they have some challenges when the game slows down when the game is at a nice pace they're fine

they're fine and this coaching staff coach dark on a step have done a really good job

trying to play to those positives and camouflage the weaknesses but good teams good competition

expose you they make you play with the way they want to play they dictate terms and that's playoff

basketball and that what comes down to is now you got to play five on five your best stuff against

your best stuff and the game's going to be slowed out and the other team's going to be telling you

where to go when you're running your own plays that's how well they know you and do you play with force

and I think beyond like guys slotted in and maybe not great fits this team in the half court

plays on its heels rather than on its toes they don't play with enough force I think I got like

a manual quickly at times he's more of a combo than a pure one scoring mind to point god he

has played really well in the last two months for the Raptors he had a tough start he's more of a

combo combo but when you get up under him and really get into the ball you know who are the

other people that now can counter I think Scotty Barnes probably has the best playmaking chops

within that group you can run a lot of mid screener role actions through Pertle even Kyle

Murray Boils but Brandon Ingram's an outstanding mid mid post type of player he can get his own

and bail you out in the back end of the shot clock RJ Barrett has been he's played really well early

he's he struggled a little bit of late he had a pretty good game Tuesday night against the next

but he struggled since coming back from injury so some of the fits are a little wonky

and kind of how do they generate offense how do they get into offense and you know beyond

the back end of the shot clock where are you running your stuff to and where are you getting easy

shots against Detroit who fouls you on every play where are you getting shots against the next

and Boston who are in your you know what like so that is the next step for them some of that

schematic some of that's personnel ones but I think ultimately I like the Bobby Webster bit

of the trade deadline and that was he let it breathe let it marinate and to me I think he

knows exactly what you've said that this roster maybe isn't necessarily as fluid and as

tight chemistry why I mean I think the chemistry is great I mean the coaching and the players

they're a great group of guys you let it breathe you let it play out you find out what you like

and you find out what you don't like the thing I've always learned is don't rush and build on

a foundation that maybe isn't the right foundation so I think if you tried to do a lot this trade

deadline on a foundation that maybe you're not sold on would be rushing into something that maybe

ends up making it worse I think when you get through this playoff process these final 21 games

and you find out will you play the playoffs and how you play then and only then now you have an

opportunity to say okay I have all my picks I can do some things some I can't all right who's

here who do I throw all the wood and I mean ultimately that's that's the decision that they're

going to have to make but I'd rather you make that decision when you truly know what you got

I think you know a lot of good things like Scottie Ponds has taken the next step this year

you got a lot of nice pieces there but in other ways they're just pieces and now you got to make

it work what's the old line you got to play your five best or your best five and I still think

they haven't come to that connection yet that road where it all meets and I think they're working

through that right now and to me personally if you're an executive I think this is the great thing

that it's happening because you are getting exposed to what you're good at and what you're not good

at and you have greater clarity when you sit around the room and you're not going around and to

me I think that's going to help them going forward all right to some of your earlier points fourth

enforcing turnovers first in transition frequency aka the number of possessions that they get in

transition which is a must for them given their spacing issues their shooting issues and honestly

like I think they've squeezed a lot out of parts that don't make super duper good sense together

and a lot of it is just like interchangeability of those parts so quickly will be as much of a

ball screener as he is a ball handler and they'll switch up they use the corners very well like they'll

put ingram in the corner and Scotty in the corner and they'll run plays up from the corners they

have a lot of off ball stuff and they just mix and match and make the best of it and make it work

and all that but it's still kind of clunky they still have some clunky because a lot of clunky

possessions and I think you know the Scotty Ingram thing is so interesting they also stagger them

a lot so that each one will play with four bench guys because they know they they have overlapping

skill sets um the Scotty Ingram thing is so interesting Ingram I think from their perspective

is almost like a free shot at okay if Scotty is not a sort of traditional number one ball handler

score but he does all these other things play making defense I think he has a great first team all

defense case this year um you know posting up mismatches all that he fills in all the gaps

on offense what we need something like a go to score this is a free shot at somebody who may not be

like a like a great go to score but he's you know borderline all star let's take a shot at and see

how that just Scotty with that kind of player works and I'm going to read you some stats I looked

up on the tracking data that are super interesting to me Scotty Barnes this season Jack

he is running let me see if I can find it nine picking rolls per 100 possessions as the ball handler

nine last year that number was 20 so they clearly have taken a lot of the shot creation duties

traditional number one alpha kind of scoring duties out of his hands his screening as the ball

screener is up pretty significantly so they've kind of switched his role in a way that kind of just

says like you may not be that guy in terms of a traditional like hey yeah we're going to hand the

whole offense you know you get it in another way you get in a transition you get it in the post

but I just thought that number was very stark his efficiency on picking rolls is not very good but

that's fine and you saw even against the nicks like when they have him and mom who is at the five

they'll put centers on Scotty Barnes and just go under screens against him and dare him to shoot

jumpers like that's still a thing that's kind of happening too and this is not a slide on Scotty Barnes

he's a really interesting player but they have changed his role a lot with quickly and with Ingram

and even Barrett is sort of always a forgotten man I kind of like RJ Barrett he's like yeah he

hasn't been the same since the injury but he's like one of those connector pieces that's just

coming off a handoff making the next pass set in a screen here and there connecting offense

he knows how to play he's the ball player you know he's a guy you you go in the school yard

and you say I want that guy in my team all the numbers finite add up and you know there are holes

that are there there are areas he could be better in but nonetheless his team wins you know he's

that guy that's on the floor like he's going to make enough plays and he knows what the plays are

that the need to be made so I think his awareness level he's queued in per play on what has to

happen he obviously he has this challenge is sometimes defensively but to me I agree I think

there are times again that you know you look at him and statistically there are times you look

and you say ah you know this that's missing that's missing that's missing and then when you're

watching play to your point there's a lot of good things he does on the floor his floor game

makes sense yeah he's always cast is like oh the guy they got to throw into a trade to make the

salaries work and like the other guy in the quickly trade and I like you like find quickly he's

been like you said very good the last two months I've always been a fan of his I think he's an

interesting creative player who can do a lot of different things on offense his decision-making he'll

just have five minutes stretches where his decision-making goes haywire like he just runs up and

takes a 30 foot three in transition you're like what was that like what was that actually just

tried to make from under the hoop but I you know like his contract is pretty hefty and I think

has neutral to negative value probably right now quickly but the just the zooming out thing is like

the way they've run their offense this year at least suggests to me that they they have decided

or they envisioned Scotty as sort of a jack of all trades rather than a traditional number one

option and are searching for something like a more traditional number one option and I think

it's not controversial to say that if you actually want to become a great team Scotty has to evolve

into a little bit more of a reliable score passer traditional number one option type he's never

going to be that the way like the the super duper stars are like a Tatum or a Luca pick your

different variety of that kind of player but a little bit more of that and if he doesn't evolve that

then they've got to get someone a little bit more like that who's just better than Brandon

Ingram like Brandon Ingram is a very good player but I don't think but so that's the mystery to me

like I think I don't know man look at this team and I'm like I'm just not sure how much better

these guys can really really get particularly since I don't look at any of the I like Jacobi Walter

but I don't see any of the him or Grady Dick or Shed's a great backup point guard and I see like

big leaps huge leaps coming from those guys Murray Boyles is a bit of a wild card so that's just my

it's just a it's just a confusing brew am I too pessimistic no I I think Scotty right now is a 1B

and and he's not at a 1a level yet I think his defense and rebounding on nights that he's really

dialed in is 1a plus absolutely first emo defense candidate for sure absolutely the offensive

stuff has to I think some of that has to do like I don't know if it'll ever be a great great

shooter in a terrific start to the season shooting the three and now it's gone the other way again

and you have hurdle in the lineup you know obviously when he's healthy and you don't have a ton of

great shooting so for a guy like Scotty wants to maybe truly be that next level guy some of it's

spacing too where you know when you have more space to operate he's a tough cover because he's got

great skills and size and you know so the guy that's really impacting their development

you mentioned Grady Dick and look I watch Grady Dick sometimes people chase him off the line

and like he's very comfortable putting into the deck and attacking the basket

I think right now I think he's more comfortable being that I think when he was drafted I think

they thought you know JJ Reddick Kyle Corvore Yada Yada Yada he just got a ton of open shots

and not made them you know and the reality that's why Jamison battles getting minutes now and he's not

you know and that that's the reality of the business your pay to make open shots and to me

you know back into the shot clock the ball you know if he had made that he hasn't yet and I hope

he does he's a great kid he works his tail off and he does he does the things they want him to do he's

trying to guard that's what they need this offense needs a guy that the ball can swing to the second

side and now drill a shot and it opens things up a little bit and yeah and can they play through

physicality and to me I think that's where if I'm Bobby Webster I'm just taking it all in

and then I start to make my moves in in this springtime you know in terms of what you want to do

in July 1st and all that kind of stuff to me I think that is the truth I think they they're taking

it to where they they better than honest exact nine games over 500 21 to play where do I sign up

all right I'm happy like as a a guy who's been here 28 years and watched all the ups and downs of

the raptors I'm very pleased with what they've done and I think they've gotten as much as they can

out of this group and I hope in the last 21 games they can find another notch but I personally think

the last notch for this group that if they're going to win some games in the playoffs if they're

going to be the fifth or six seed they have got to get better in their half court offense when

the chips are down and you've got guys holding you and beating you up and they're letting them play

because we know that happens you know you you play the Celtics they're gonna be they're in you

and and too bad you better figure it out I'd say what raptors this year when they played Charlotte

they struggle against them I mean Charlotte you know coach Lee worked as a Celtic assistant

done a great job with those guys those dudes get into you man and you got to be able to run your

stuff through all that and to me that's ultimately what it's all about these final 21 games and post

season can they figure that out I work for a guy when I was an assistant a forum guy named Tom

Penders is in the college basketball hall famed universe a guy named a guy named Tom Penders he's

a great he was a great coach in one of my mentors he's to talk all the time about offensive toughness

in the final five minutes of the game you know and the game slows down we're going to be able to

generate a high percentage shot you know and hide against a defense that's into you and he

used to do some really cool we we'd go three on four in practice four and five in practice

five on six it's like it's like a quarterback and you're sending uh and not only one or two more

guys in your line can protect and you know you're trying to call out coverage and who's blocking

schemes and all that and you know can you can you make decisions rapid fire decisions what you know

I play off basketball as a chess it's turbo chess and it's it's a next level and and when

the next level happens and it's in confined space how do you do it and and to me you got to have

a guy that can bring to the ball and now the ball's got to get out of there quick and you got to

find a guy on the on the second side or even a third side and you got to make a shot and and put

but the other challenge I think for the raptors is they don't break the defense down enough off the

bounce you know when you have that water bug point guard who can get into the heart of the defense

and bring two or three guys to the ball and bang bang bang now your things are happening and again

that's that's another element like quickly it is very capable but does he hit that paint

does he hit the rim is he getting deep is he just winning his personal matchup and just

destroying his opponent off the bounce and shed right now you can go under that ball screen on him

he's not a consistent three-point shooter so where where are you getting guys going down he'll

win in their matchup to create that stuff therefore a lot of times you kind of have to go east

and your structure you're you're you're screening your actions have to create the shot and again

when your opponent knows what your actions are and they're blowing them up now what do you get

who what where's your creativity and again that's part of it you need to see it you need to

live it and say okay those are my issues this is what I need to do to fix it but and they do

they do go east west a lot and that's why they use the corners and coming up from the corners very

well but to your point about the spacing when you go east west and you're trying to swing the ball

second side third side those gaps open up those like diagonal alleys to the rim but when no one

respects your shooting those gaps are smaller and they close faster for the ball handlers than they

do for teams where the shooters are respect to look the bottom line is this and that was and that

was my point about great because if you have you know if you if he is a young guy in his third year

who takes that next step and he's shooting 38 39% and he's a MF or when the ball comes to him and

finds him three on the shot clock bang and you have that guy that now that defense has to loosen

up a little bit and go geez I gotta I gotta keep a guy he's got to stay on that guy now you're

playing four or four the space still opens up a little bit and they they need that and and

hopefully one of those kids pops and if they don't they got to find it. Here's the bottom line to

me when the raptors talk about build from the middle post the Tampa tank this is what they talked

about we had we had to move on from a core that wasn't very old frankly in siakam and annobi

and vamp lead like they're a little older than they're two three years older than the guys they got

back for them but older and more expensive that we didn't think was going to go anywhere but we

don't want to bottom out while doing it we want to stay relevant they've succeeded in doing that

they're relevant they're fifth they're solid I just don't know or see the road map to something

much better than this but I am interested to see how the last 20 or so games go and how the playoffs

goes assuming they get there and by the way tie breaker wise they've lost the tie breaker to filly

already it's one one with one game left against Orlando that's a big one jack arm strong and they are

up two all against Miami but they have two games left so that will still be in play and you'll

I got it isn't aren't Toronto it filly two two if i'm not mistaken two two but division record

is the next type breaker after that and fill it up it has an insurmountable jack arm strong

just the best in the business such a delight he and mad devlin have been steering the raptorship

for a long time on the broadcast it's great to see you thanks for taking a little time and I look

forward to maybe a playoff trip up up to see the in-laws in Toronto jack we'd love to have you and

by then they'll actually you'll be able to see the concrete and you'll be able to walk around

there'll be no snow left so we had a rough winter this year's act so we can still have it yet

and you can come to a game a raptor playoff game maybe hit a J's game as well and uh

well I'll tell you what else I'll tell you what else is going on in teo the raptors are going to be

long gone by this point in fact the NBA season will be over but June 23rd in teo Croatia is playing

in the world cup in Toronto we might see you might see the low family up there jack arm shong you're

the man thank you sir you got it Zach all right that's it for the Zach Lo Show today barring some

major news we will be back on Tuesday per usual and we'll be on Sunday the bill Simmons podcast

Sunday night I think rocket spurs play we'll be on right after that is the plan uh thank you to

the great Chris Ryan thank you to the great jack arm shong thanks as always to mike billy and

Jonathan on production and thanks to all of you for listening to and or watching the Zach Lo Show

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shot clocks big shots upsets aces tgl playoffs are here first Atlanta drive starts their repeat

run against Los Angeles golf club then rory's Boston common golf and tigers jupiter links face

off in their playoff debuts who will advance keep up its playoffs tune in Tuesday March 17th

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