Jeff Coetzee Interview: Developing Belief, Overcoming Losses, Serve Drill, & the AO Run

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today's episode. Hey everybody welcome back to the show. It's been a while

since I've released an episode. I was in Austin, Texas for the ATX open a

couple of weeks ago, coaching Catherine Harrison and Delina Hewitt and then

from there I was home for a day or two and then I went out to Indian Wells

California where I hosted the rally trip with 18 club level players. We played

doubles every morning. We went to the tennis tournament at night, had a doubles

camp after that and then spent some time with some pro players and coaches after

that, conducting some interviews and having meetings about doubles. So I'm sorry

for the delay, but over the next couple of episodes you're going to hear some

of those conversations from Indian Wells, including this one with Jeff Coatsy.

If you remember Jeff, he was one of the original episodes on the podcast.

I believe he was maybe the fourth or fifth episode back when he coached

Robert Farah and one Sebastian Cabal who were the Colombian duo who reached

number one in the world and won a couple of grand slam titles. And now today he

coaches Anna Danelina and Alexandra Cronich and they are the top team in the

world so far this year. They made the Australian open final. They won in Doha

recently and at the time of me recording this intro, they're still in the

Indian Wells masters. We discussed what's worked so well this year for Anna and

Alex early in the season. How Anna has developed belief that she belongs at

the top of the game. Jeff talked a lot about belief in this conversation and

it's kind of an intangible thing that I have skirted around I think over the

years but Jeff does a really good job in this conversation of kind of defining

belief and talking about how he's helped Anna believe in herself and believe

that she does belong near the top of the women's game. We also discussed how

they strategize against singles players who are stronger from the baseline.

We talked specifically about their first round matchup which happened the day

before our conversation. We talked about how to deal with multiple losses

in finals. They had a stretch where they lost in the finals of several tournaments

in a row and what it took to finally get over that hump. I also asked Jeff why he

likes his team to take more risk when they have a lead. He talks about serve drills that

simulate in match pressure. I really liked those drills a lot so you can steal

those and use them for your own game and then of course at the end we talked

about what the tours can do to help promote doubles. I think you're going to really enjoy

this one. I'm going to have several more coach as well as one player interview coming up

over the next couple of weeks so keep an eye out for those as well but without further delay

enjoy this conversation with coach Jeff Coatsy.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today I'm at Indian Wells with coach Jeff Coatsy.

You've nubbed it on in a while, Jeff. You're actually one of the first podcasts that I had.

I think one of the first five episodes and we haven't chatted since. It's awesome to have you back.

Yeah, thanks for having me. So you're here coaching Anadena Lina and her partner Crunich,

who made the Australian Open Finals one in Dubai. Doha, I always get those two mixed up.

One in Doha and are currently number one in the race. What has worked so well early on in the season?

I think you know last year when the girls first played together obviously started the

French that they made finals there and then they had other commitments for the grass and then

started playing again and they just missed it out at the top eight and a big nine. So there was

a lot of different things they needed to sort out as well and once they made that commitment to play

and I was basically just telling them look, the game that I really want you guys to play,

it needs to be a game that you need to do extra and you need to be willing to do a lot of different

things extra in terms of if it's Alex is obviously very talented but maybe the net game

needs a little bit more improvement because I feel like if Anadena is on top of a game serving

well it's okay but as you know you're not going through matches where every match you're going to

serve well. So the next thing would be so what does the net, the person at the net, the service

partner. So that's more the focus that we worked a lot on to be able to or Alex to get better

as a service partner because Anadena has always seemed like Alex is holding us serve a lot more

because Anadena does so much more now being her. So once you're going to get that through and then

just be a group more I think the success really comes from a little bit more aggressive top of mindset

and more aggressive tennis instead of just okay let's make the return we see what happens. So I'm

like okay option one option two option three which one are you going to go with you either have to

really be aggressive on the returns that's the net person poachers or you have one shot makes you

know like different things but it's just I think it's just a switch in the mindset of being

we just can't just make returns it's not good enough we need to be a little bit more aggressive and

when you do that then the serve part because I always put it like you have 20% 25% your side

crunic has 25% so that's 50% you hold sir 25% 25% when you have to put it in those

percentage so we can find a way that we can hold serve our 50% only we need only need one break

or two breaks here but now we need to work on the return part the return you know in a part

now what what do they do so it's big it's just more the way they've been playing was just like okay

let's see how we do and it would like to just get the ball and we rarely I'm not let's try now

because they're getting you you're losing matches here and there this is what the the teams are

doing to you so we can make that improvements so basically what we've done is to make the gap

smaller on our weaker side and it's obviously been working a lot more okay so that's more but I

mean I think it's more the aggressive type of tennis where I feel like there's so much potential

from both of them each complement each other's games so well but and and the mere fact that they

trust me and and buy into what I wanted to do obviously helps a lot and you've been working

with Anna for several years now since what one was I started with I think Madrid was the first

tournament so this will be the third year third year with her and then before that you had

Cobal and Barat yeah for yeah so a lot of it seems like I guess this is true of a lot of

doubles coaches maybe they'll stick with the player for a long time do you feel like

that is helpful in terms of like development and you can think more long-term or how do you

how do you think well it definitely helps because if you stay with somebody and depending on when

you start with somebody when I started with Anna her headspace was just completely different you

know never I've never I just think like she did not believe that she could be she's that's the top 10

before and as you went out and I was just trying to I said will you to be able to be consistent

this is what you need to do in yourself this is the return this is I kind of put everything

in perspective to her I said there's going to be matches that you're not going to serve as well

so then you need to do something else better to make up for it if you don't do this well

than something else the days you play us at well everything works that's okay but how many times

a year is that yeah so so there's going to be a lot of the times where you might have to get through

that matches by taking more risks on on coaches by maybe taking going for returns more or doing

this more but in order for us to be able to do that we need to train these things over again but

the most important thing stays the main thing will always be the main thing you start the point

with the serve and then if if you return you know reacting you're not proactive so how do we get

that into play so if you start making more of those returns into play because you know what's coming

we know your weakness and if we can sort of work on then I said you got to trust me because this

is exactly what I did was Robert and Gabbal I said we need to do this and it cost us 20 minutes and

whether it's seven in the morning whether it's late I need for you to understand that we need to

work it's it doesn't that we can do it a few times but you'll have yourself but if you want

consistency this is what you need I need to serve for you 10 15 20 minutes a day that Pacific

spot every day and you'll have the results and I think more so I think a course of over the last

two years is really trusted what I'm trying for to to be able to achieve but also I think

more so believe yeah I think that's probably the biggest part for me with her because I don't think

she was when you tell her like this is what I see just like she's not believing in herself I'm

like kind of this is honestly what I'm seeing yeah I'm not I said to you first of all I'm not doing

this for any money yeah otherwise I can go find somebody else I believe that you can be where you are

because I know you like working hard which is already a plus yeah you know you like to do extra

things you like I said once we saw that out I said I will take a player any day that's not as

talented and but wants to work hard and supposed to be a player that's not as was very talented in

like this you know you never know so I like that obviously when you get a talented player and

you were willing to work hard I mean you know then you you find somebody phenomenal how much of

that belief and this is this is a topic that I've like I guess you kind of danced around for a

long time because it's so intangible and I'm a big analytics and math guys and I like I like

things that I can prove yeah and like you say she didn't believe in herself like we can't prove

that it's not to say it's not important it's obviously super important but when you go to a

player and they don't believe in themselves how much of that change if let's say two three four

years later they do believe in themselves comes from just putting in those reps like you're talking

about like I'm going to serve to this spot every day for 20 minutes and over time oh I made the

forehand in the spot again and again and then that belief develops versus like some other kind of

mental I don't know how do you think about that well it can pose down to a lot of personality as

well you know because some people will have it because that's just that person actually believe

their nature is like boom and it goes quickly with her on the other end a little bit different so I

had to like literally tell Anna you honestly need to believe in yourself let's know in my favorite

saying always doesn't matter who I work with as I can I take you to the water I cannot make

the drink I can take you that far but ultimately from all my experience and knowledge this is what

I can do for you but you the one that needs to step up and deliver so if you don't but you have

to believe what we're trying to do so if we know what you're trying to do and then it just becomes

there's going to be days for sure that you're not feeling well maybe you you can't make every single

turn but you also you could credit if somebody serves and beat you with a good serve but when you

must it's more like are you missing because of this or you actually because for her the other

thing is like if I tell her wow good return because yeah but it's out so she always sees the

negative completely different I said but that's such a good hit I said Anna you cannot make every

single return even if you hit everything you do everything right you're gonna have to accept that

you're gonna miss it's just like when I'm trying for it to poach more or do some I said you're

gonna get beaten up the line you can't let me maybe I should know but I said well how are you

gonna get better if you're not gonna get beaten up the line for you to be able to really cross

and do stuff you're gonna have to accept that what is my number today am I gonna get beaten five

times 10 times 15 times it means you're doing a lot but the majority of the times now it becomes

when do you go what and how many points are you winning versus losing now if you go if you go 10

times and you win seven why are you stopping if you go five five and you're gonna say hey is

the glass half empty or half full like the doggy and you know you're gonna just and sometimes it's

I said it's crossing or poaching it's not it's more timing you need to have the timing of the return

of the shot that's where sometimes you get burnt up the line because I said the move was perfect

the intent it was good but your timing was just a little bit off so you constantly have to provide

some positivity and everything but yeah I mean it's it's something that you with her especially you

do the reps over and over again it works out but it also it's a personality yeah that takes a

little bit longer with a player for example yeah you know I've had was with I worked with Kabbal and

Farah Rob needed more time where Kabbal needed boom boom boom I'm feeling it I'm good but you know

it's so it's also it's also the type of question doubles the type of player you work with the

personality and then that's where the difference then you have to understand like I always say

you have to understand the person before you really can understand the player yeah so I'm trying

to and she watches she she's not a person that opens up a lot yeah so like took time over time

yes trust is learned yeah I've heard it many times before so once I got that trust now I feel like

and that's your first question is like why are we doing well I think it's more and more trust

that now she is opening up to a lot more ways it takes time to let somebody in sometimes you know

it's like mmm but if I do this I said look your perspective in mind maybe do it but try this try

you just find no problem you can do your way but I just I just want you to try this and see what

happens now when they start seeing okay and I'm like you cross once I said what I said there's no

rule it says you can't cross twice in a row why wouldn't you do it I said I haven't seen that rule

yeah so you tell me where's the I said why don't you do it I said big moments I said I'm on day

we surf at the set you went five four five three you cross first point and then you guys stop

like why I said your your your thing is look at the scoreboard for example what happened in

you know straightaway lost the server five three serving for the we were first down a break in

the third and then I said to look girls you need to put apply more pressure this is every

seconds of look to come in and suddenly it worked we go back and then we we kind of serve to the

match first point boom cross okay and I'm like what happened said five three you cross the first

point and now we stop and then they looked at me luckily they were the admise and they looked

at me I said girls look at the scoreboard we are still up five four do a final we had like

a couple of juice points we lost six left five two down for example I said don't worry about that

I said it's fine a way to make them serve for it so five four we had 30 40 five three

I'm actually the good return seconds of just art and an Alex played a very good juice point

championship point for them I'm looking at there how's the pinkers body language going to the team

and I'm thinking myself wow we are set in five four down and the body language is like completely

different and I would tell my players exactly what I told the ministry look at the scoreboard we are

still up five four so when they came my side I should like let's just make a play do this play she

doesn't make a hit the return up the line she must almost every return there and then I'm like you

know what we need we we have this but it's just ironic how you can think when you just serve for

the match and then suddenly five four like but look at the scoreboard I mean I would if you if

you had told me this before the match Jeff we're gonna be five four up and we're returning to maybe

win the match I would take the take it any day never said so I want to talk about the match today

so they played two singles players or primarily singles players Sloan Stevens and done a

package obviously that's a different style of team right and one of the things I noticed and

you just talked about crossing and trying to kind of keep I guess a mental tally of you know I

crossed ten times and one seven I crossed ten times I won five early on they were crossing really

effectively I noticed and then a package specifically started going line and then I saw Anna

starts to kind of do the shimming at the net and kind of stay line and then she hit a few

balls through the middle so it's kind of like a chess match talk about how you handled that

before the match knowing that these singles players are so good from the back and then

throughout the matches that's something you're picking up on or you've trained them to pick up on

well it's something you you basically do before you play I've always done that myself when I played

I'm like you know what first of all they're hitting way more many more ground strokes than me anyway

this is what they play ground stroke I know you are better than me with ground strokes but I can

handle two three four if I have to with you but long term yeah I give you that yeah but this is

what I'm gonna do to you I'm gonna play my game first because right now you on a court where there's

four people so it's it's my it's my type of game so this is I'm gonna play if you're gonna beat

me you're gonna beat me doing this so it becomes that chest that you want to do so again like I

said it's like what type of game plan do you want to play do you want to return and cross do you

want to hit one shot on cross you want to do this on cross do you want to you know like it

becomes that when do you bring it in and like you said sometimes you you throw out that type of

message first and now it becomes like okay is she going or not so now you've sent the message send

the message even if it's it's on sir for all but in big moments where it comes down to is

are they gonna go or not and that this is where the chest becomes am I am I willing to go on this

moment knowing that I've done that before is the the player at the back there or the singles player

or are they gonna take the chance and go and that's where I said the timing becomes the crossing

becomes it's all about timing so you've got a time to return first you can't just say I come on

across by the sake of crossing you know that's where it's it becomes so important so yeah you have

this type of game style we always try and feel like whenever we play a lot of the singles play

this is I know what's coming from them and this is what we need to do we do our thing because

we are better in that regard but they are definitely gonna good returns good first second shot

but we need to change that narrative then to maybe go up the line a little bit more of the returns

maybe if we go cross go to cross the first one or maybe do this try and change it or if we can

if we have good return and we don't cross the first one then do we go line then do we love

or something we need to constantly change because you're never gonna beat a lot of the singles

plays rally rally rally oh who's crossing rally rally especially in the girls it's because they

are just doing more tennis in that regard anyway they're playing singles I do a lot of grassroots

they're playing double so you're never gonna catch up anyway so what you can say to yourself

is like I'm good enough to hang with a return good returns I'm good enough to hit a first shot

when it's a good return majority of the time you get sort of a relatively short ball but then

what do I do with it I need to be having aggressive mindset and then maybe cross so it's always

like that sort of mindset that I'm trying to teach them and we come back to again to what type

of tennis I want them to play to be a little bit more aggressive to hit and come in but in order

for you to be able to do that you need to do something else because most of the ballies with you

hit and come in you're gonna hit below net anyway so we always start when we started the net

volume the person has to be behind the service line in the beginning even honest like why we're

doing this I'm like this is the reason why I said how many times you're hitting ballies on top

of the net if you're hitting ground strokes the ball is short where you're gonna hit that ball

in the first volume you're gonna hit it more likely below the net in the block you're not gonna

hit it up there so again you need to buy into it where like start every day when you do

10 ballies from the service line a little bit back by just doing 70% one two three feeling 10

I mean you warming up how many times so they're following with each other from behind the service

no one would hit the ground stroke oh ground stroke yeah it's normal ballies but as you see a lot of

even like a lot of symbols plays you watch you'll see how they volley they'll come and they

in the middle of the on the service block yeah but how many times you get ballies from there anyway

unless you approach and you get an easy one but I'm talking about when you play all these

unbelievable plays alcoras and you hit an approach right how often are you really gonna

get a passage without a ballie like this yeah you're gonna have to hit a ballie below the net

mm-hmm and that's why I try and teach them to start and learn how to volley from behind the

service line so when you do get these difficult ballies you you've done literally 10 every single day

or every warm-up you've done so in a course of three months I mean you can add hum

probably volley you've done so yeah it just it just it just becomes to change the mindset because

when I saw Alex doing that coming from obviously a very good singles career and unbelievable how

talented what you see the game I was just trying to say like look sometimes the shot selection

that you hit is unbelievable no problem but sometimes for me that wins a lot of matches is how well

you do the basics you can't go wrong with the basics yeah if you just stick to the basics and you

do those things and you almost master the basics really well you don't have to play well

but if you stick to those little things you can't you can't you can't you can't go wrong with that

yeah you might not win every match but you can win the majority of the matches right but what

what is the post match look like for you after a win like today what's the exact kind of routine

I imagine they they're busy there's no basically they're the first time we'll go we'll talk about

the match afterwards and say look this is where I feel like well done first of I like to start a

lot with positives first and then obviously regardless of winner loss yes we know loss

to give because the players don't always want to hear the criticize and some people don't take it

well so diversity depends like on a for example we'd like to hear right away Alex is a little bit

different she would like to do a little bit later where is what the guys are used to work with

they like to do it also right away they talk about it you know and sometimes I'll go like okay

your thoughts first start with the positive sometimes it just depends like this is where it comes

down to how well do you know your players the person first and you better look at some different

matches so I feel like and even like to be honest well I keep learning from players I keep

learning what I'm doing that's what I love doing or this job because I keep learning like even

like little things even my daughter that plays tennis at 13 I learned from her because I know

how emotional that age and stuff is and when we talk about so we even have a thing that I don't

talk unless she comes to me first boom and then later on I even get them to go into the pool and

stuff recovery and this and then she'll go okay daddy you tell me your version yeah and same

thing so I try and learn from that I try and learn from these players like when is the right time

but yes it would be talk about the match a little bit more okay now they're on the bike

and now okay and then you obviously knowing that you playing this time they would have had

maybe a slot already there's nowadays you can do it on the phone with the forzae of what time

it's available they have slots not like back in the day when we used to play it's like you go in

and it's like all right now you wait to see who's available now you can actually have a schedule

and playing this time so I'll do my forzae at six or something then you could have that so they'll

do the recovery and everything tomorrow we have a day off and then we focus on the next opponent

who we playing and then I'll I'll go look on on on video analyze tonight to see where and what

and then I'll come up with a game plan during practice and then it just depends how well we

execute that game plan again those are things you can only control but you can do but you can't

control if the opponents because they do they'll do the same thing it's just a matter of who

executes it better sure what so you mentioned you're you're still learning a lot

a how do you what is your process for continuing to develop yourself as a coach how do you

continue to grow and then if you can share maybe an example of a mistake you've made over the

last year as a coach and what you've learned from that I think I think the main thing is sometimes

as a coach we also just need to take it in and listen first and not be so judgmental as like

because I'm also like a perfectionist like this yet but you make mistakes but you gotta do this

in this and over and again but also like again to be honest the last two years I've actually learned

a lot more just because my daughter started to play a little bit more tennis even from her at that

age but and then trying to bring it on to the pro level and say just listen sometimes like

I don't want to talk I don't do because I needed to be not the coach also because I'm on the court

and then when I'm in the car I'm like okay so your father's asking you how was your lesson

so I just had the lesson with her so I'm like okay I can see where this is going with the face

so I'm like driving and I can see it's like oh so Daddy just wants to know how was the lesson or

how was it how was the coach today so is this something you actually do with her you

right now I'm in yeah so nice right now I'm in good I basically literally tell her

gaps look I'm taking my head off and then okay and then just depends like so good in the mood so

yeah but I I feel like I can always learn from the players and the toughest thing is sort of

timing when to have their conversation like I said sometimes because the girls are a little bit

more emotional so one player likes to have it right away other player not so then we have to say

okay I'll talk to her and then maybe later to her so yeah and yeah so I keep learning that I

sometimes I need to to to not say a certain thing maybe the timing on the court even sometimes

you just have to give that positivity and everything and trying and when they do ask you because

look right now yeah we are allowed to coach but you also you've got to be you know be you don't

want to say too much but you also just want to say something short and precise to the point

and in constantly having them because I go back because I watch the match a lot to the semi-final

and of the Aussie and I was just like you know what look at the scoreboard we just serve for it

and so what we do here and probably probably one of the best four points we broke to love

like there and it just shows you that if you stay stay in the moment and I'm not saying if they

were the other side of me it just so happened that they came this side I would have then maybe

scream it's like what we do here you know stay in the moment as well as try and tell them so yeah

I mean I look well I'm gonna keep making mistakes as depending on the players you work with

but I want to keep learning I feel like I'm I want to be that coach if you tell me something or

that coach I can learn so much more from and that's why I say to the coaches at home as well

I just don't know how you can coach a six seven-year-old I take my head off for you I can I have

so much respect for those coaches that I'm like man I can learn from it because all I'm seeing is

that little kid is having fun and that's all that matters for me yeah so there again I can learn

something yeah um last question so uh you're lost in the Australian event final and there was

a stretch of tournaments where um over the last year so where there was some finals losses right

and then in Doha you get over that hump what what did you tell them after Australia

and how do you kind of learn from those losses like while you're in it and then be after Doha what

do you think I guess it turned that match around especially being down so big yeah um

and I guess how uh did that feel afterwards finally can I get through that I think starting with

Australia you know uh we knew we had to add a good start which we did we were three love up uh double

break then we lost surf and then we played a very good point to Alex at 34 like I remember correct

and we broke now the difference where I'm trying to get them to understand is when you guys are

up like this I would like for them to take a little bit more risk this is the next phase where I

feel like we can improve a lot more so when we are we starting to play a little bit sometimes

safe best of all because I'm trying to say yes basically that's big that's been happening so uh

and and what I'm trying to tell them when we surf okay we have option A or option B it's already

getting better but again it's time I said this is what I want you to do the first two points

so do this strategy do this one and see what happens and then we take it from there so those

already as work but when it comes to grand slam finals I'm lucky enough that I've been in a few

that I understand that's where the person at the belief comes in a little bit more you know

anybody if you do that for a reason so there's there's only going to be one team one person at

every single tournament that's going to lift the trophy that's going to be unbeaten

that's the thing with the 64 drawing dollars 128 there's going to be one person that's never

going to lose that whole week yeah so it can only be one so when you get to that stage you've

got to be able to trust the honesty felt like we could have won that first set at least and give

ourselves a chance now you halfway there same thing last year when they played they didn't have

that extra belief and once they won the set against Irani Paulini then the third set we went

through three games where it was closed we had chances and then they kind of ran with it so I

said to them just we got to learn from these mistakes we got to watch the videos we got to see

the body language we're going to do this and we need to do that my job is I can be but I'll just

show you specific things and so when we got to the next final it because this was their second

one thousand last year in Wuhan they lost in the finals and unless one a few so it was Alexis

first time into the finals and again you know it was six left five two but we also lost

forty thirties and thirty-fourty points of four dudes but this system is a little different

for it yeah and I feel like now that we've won that thousand you know that's a little bit

the monkey sort of off the back and I just want him to be leave a little bit more in that regard

that when you get to the finals it's it's it's it's wouldn't say it's just a normal cliche it's

just another match yes it's just another match but it's also not another match you playing for

the title for the championship but again what I'm trying to tell them is like what are you doing

in that particular moment that is the only moment that matters but if you start thinking about

oh I had of yourself that you're gonna get caught up so the best thing when you play these

these tournaments the bigger and I said to the players like you know you don't need to win

every single slam of course you want to the thousands but if you can do well enough in every time

you get to that stage because it's not guaranteed you're gonna get to every single final in four

slams you're gonna get to everything of thousand but when you do get there all I want you to do

is give yourself the best possible chance and again what is the best possible chance you're giving

yourself what can you control you can control how you go to bed the night before

you you can control your your when you wake up you can control what you think about how you

going into the match and when you believe in those things so all those things comes down to

to the difference so when you upper set and something say four two three enough playing not to lose

what do you play to win for me I've seen too many things that when you dehyze in the situation you

play not to lose it doesn't work and I've showed them before I said this is not good it's it doesn't

work for us you know so why don't we just try and do the alternative and once they got to that five

all stages in the second set you could still the whole difference even at five four because I was just

telling you the body language is bad come on we can do this girl and you could see there was a big

change in the body language it started believing a little bit more and that's probably one of the

reasons they probably won that because they believed a little bit more okay in hindsight they

were like and I said this is the time to get on top of it because they were like what just happened

here you know we can't believe we in the situation yeah so yeah I mean we leave plays such a big

part and and hopefully that will continue when they ink these thousands or brands then finals and

I mean I guess it doesn't happen very often so when it does happen we need to take advantage of

that yeah one quick follow-up on you said with the lead I'd like to take more risk what type of

risk are you talking about are you talking about like moving at the near tree talking well the way

I try and teach them and when we when we do certain things in practice I'd like to practice serve

with a lot of pressure I just don't like buckets and buckets are you telling me you you serve

for an hour no I would like to say okay we're gonna do seven serves in a row that particular spot I'll

make the spot if you don't make it seven a row guess what we start again that's it we're not

gonna do anything else until we get seven a row and I've never had a player not making that if it

means the the whole hour is based on this one particular spot you haven't gone and so be it so then

by six you've got to make the seventh one in a row otherwise you start to that pressure so if you

don't make it who wants to start and make a seven again I like that so so so when I get to six I'm

like okay so six is basically there's the match point is there's a forty thirty point then so

what are you gonna do are you gonna play safe because you don't want to not serve again or you're

gonna go for it because if you can't do it in practice how on earth are you gonna serve for the

match for grandstand you can't do that so you need to be able to do that so the risk and then when

I said so then when we practice like this I said it is not a risk because we practice it like I

want you to go more for second serves it's not a risk because we practice because I don't I don't

do your second serve okay serve if you serve body you know when you serve body I put them

the the target sort of like this far from the from the the middle the line so you have to have

in that spot if you don't make it guess what you start again so I'm trying to teach them to

to sort of serve under pressure return under pressure if I make this because every time when I

serve them like La 40 we are break up La 40 we 30 40 it's a dues point what are you gonna do so

constantly all those things I try to do and that's what I'm saying when you are it's not a risk

it only becomes a risk when you don't practice these things yeah so when you take a risk and you

practice all that and it's normal that's really okay for you that's that's what I'm trying to teach

them a little bit more and it's how we starting to practice more so it's the same thing like I've done

with all my players it's just a matter of who is willing to constantly buy in and look at the more

they do it and it becomes a little bit easier in that sense yeah I like that a lot um so I said

last question I like this is the last question um what have you seen over the last several years since

it's been a while since we've chatted um and what would you like to see in terms of the the tours

helping doubles helping it become more popular helping it maybe get televised promoting it more

um I think well it's it's a very unique game I think a lot of players

goes through whether they play maybe singles and then become doubles and you can see a lot of now

that they play until like 39-40 I mean it's a beautiful game first of all we we have a lot of

competition with Dale or Pedro I've a unit saved with pickle and stuff so I feel like if you can

stay in the game for as long as you can and why not you know for example for me yes I'm primary

a doubles coach but I mean I called singles at home and stuff I do all sorts of things

but it's given me the sense of to be able to work with players this unbelievable athletes

and I think there is definitely a market art for it which depends on how they promote it look I

always feel like whether there's a world as a way that's me you know so if you really want to make

it work you can make it work but it comes down to not just us it comes down to a lot of the top

singles players are well when they talk about it and people ask them about doubles and they say

no I love the game you know I think it's just because yeah it's a different market like sometimes when

I say yeah but we don't get enough code spread okay so what do we do then let's let's not blame

let's find solutions so the solution is to the doubles players then start like for them the

men starts here on Sunday I wish we started on Sunday because I could have been home a little bit

longer so there's always ways because then a lot of people will either do go to to Phoenix or

the money can republic for the 175 and then off to Miami so there's always ways of how to improve

things how what do you want so the near thing is like if we can all work together a WTA ATP single

stables and you don't have to differentiate about this and that the net because it's one it's

it's one it's one sport it's a product so like any business so you have a product there this is

like the CEOs and this part of your business is doing well this one is also how can we do this

part getting better but there's is a market for it I mean if you look at just here the states alone

how many people this tournament it's amazing it's crazy yeah it's Friday today you come tomorrow

again and you see it doesn't matter where you go yeah it's very difficult so how do you tap

in into that market you know I love doing it because whenever I'm here and and when you practice

I always see people watching and then I can hear it's like wow this and then you know ideas dropping

like oh I can do this in my next time I'm going to try this in my match this and then I actually

go to them and say hey but if you do it you need to do this because you remember this is what

we're trying you do I hope you picked up what the girls they serve there but you need to be able to

do this and they're like oh I like this I like so I try and give you because I feel like

they have made the effort as fans to come and watch and watch the guys where the girls practice

double so for me as a coach just to be able to to have that impact and to be able to tell one

little thing to somebody maybe they appreciate like yesterday we were practicing or two days ago

yeah yesterday and then we're sitting there like wow we watched them here we watched them there

like wow they're so good and I said you would probably pull that shot off you know or there's

them I was like yeah yeah not quite but I said I said but why not you know I said maybe at a

different level but you can still hit that shot because if you do it's a shot and you do this

the next point what's going to happen and then I'm like ah that makes sense you know so it's like

it's just I feel like we just need to tap on a little bit better I feel like it's such a good

product but nowadays it's all about that single double that does that it's just like surely

there's there's enough for everybody we I think since me playing and been coaching and when I'm

at this stage our sport is probably the healthiest that it's ever been so when it's when

when a company or product is doing that well why would you want to fire somebody

or saying in that regard you want to say double or something but now you're going to tap in on it

and have someone promoting it I mean the ATP there's there's there's so much more they can do

as a matter do we want to do it or not and that's different that's why I feel like if we can

all just come together and we just promote it a little bit better and talk about it a little bit

because it's it's like anything else if if I'll dress if Sinan always like no I love the game

love double I think it's great I think these guys are actually just a different skill set wow

this then suddenly becomes a different conversation but we all have to have that sort of conversation

we all have to be part of it it's it's it's it's it's a product it's it's tennis is one game

with obviously singles and doubles which is a little bit different but I mean I I hope they

can continue and I obviously feel like it's it's it's it's it's changed in that in that regard

where you're never going to have back in the day like a mac and roll and all this like we'll be

able to play singles and doubles at the same time now it's a little bit different and you also have

to appreciate that but you know so hopefully they can continue and then make maybe we will have

another conversation in five ten years who knows about this and then hopefully we in a different

place even better I really don't really do also yeah I hope so too yeah Jeff thanks a ton for

going on I really appreciate thank you thanks for having me thank you for listening to this week's

episode of the doubles only tennis podcast if you're interested in diving deeper into the world

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